Question

[Josh]

As a person new to AA. Is it ok to drink Non-Alcohlic Beer??? Or is
that a no no !!!
Thanks
Josh

[Plug]

"Josh" <joshuaerobinson@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:p1rh10lfsrnhkqcvq930q7bph5bakmnpmc@4ax.com...
> As a person new to AA. Is it ok to drink Non-Alcohlic Beer??? Or is
> that a no no !!!
> Thanks
> Josh
Hi Josh,
I remember asking this question. Received wisdom seemed to be avoid all
alcohol like items, including alcohol in food and chocolates such as
liqueurs. The danger is that you will get a taste for it again.

However 18 months on, I have found an alcohol free wine that I like and I
take it to dinner parties or when I go away as it's quite hard to find. I'm
not at all tempted to drink real wine (In any case I used to drink red and
this is white). And amazingly, I am able to drink just two glasses without
any problem....it's not *that* nice.
Deb/Bubba

"Josh" <joshuaerobinson@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:p1rh10lfsrnhkqcvq930q7bph5bakmnpmc@4ax.com...
> As a person new to AA. Is it ok to drink Non-Alcohlic Beer??? Or is
> that a no no !!!
> Thanks
> Josh

The problem with non-alcoholic beer is that it DOES have alcohol, albeit
very little. I've had friends in AA who have been able to drink NA beer
without any problem. Personally, I don't see the point in it. To me, it is
sort of like attempting controlled drinking. I drank to get drunk, not for
the purpose of being social or anything like that. My personal drink
preference for parties, happy hour with co-workers, etc. is cranberry juice
and soda water. I get vitamin C and it keeps my kidneys healthy. In fact,
the first time I went to happy hour with a bunch of fellow employees, they
all ordered margaritas (I live in New Mexico) and I ordered my usual. A
couple did ask me if I drank and I said I didn't. Wanting more of an
explanation, one asked me if it made me sick and I said "more than you can
imagine."

[Bpyboy]

what bothered me about NA beer (and in the early days, I was a fan of it) is
that it costs MORE than the regular stuff! So it pissed me off--didn't really
taste like real beer, still gave me heartburn problems, and it was expensive!

Still, i'd probably stay away from it--for me at least, it was really just a
reinforcement on bad habits (like those herbal non-tobbaco cigarretes--yeah,
that's REALLY going to help me quite smoking!)

just my couple pennies worth.
John

[J. Rockford]

In article <p1rh10lfsrnhkqcvq930q7bph5bakmnpmc@4ax.com>, Josh
<joshuaerobinson@earthlink.net> wrote:

> As a person new to AA. Is it ok to drink Non-Alcohlic Beer??? Or is
> that a no no !!!
> Thanks
> Josh

I've drank this stuff before and after I had three and no buzz I
thought to myself this is pointless, give me a Coke. If your at a bar I
think most people look at you like your a sissy and not one of "us" any
longer and it makes them uncomfortable. I was told at AA if you're
drinking neir beer you're near drunk. Have a Coke and a smile, Mike.

[Robert McGregor]

"Josh" <joshuaerobinson@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:p1rh10lfsrnhkqcvq930q7bph5bakmnpmc@4ax.com...
> As a person new to AA. Is it ok to drink Non-Alcohlic Beer??? Or is
> that a no no !!!
> Thanks
> Josh

It is suggested that a wise person avoids unnecessary risk, and a smart
person profits from calculated risk.

Pertaining to alcoholism, would you prefer to be smart, or wise?

Bob

>................ I was told at AA if you're
> drinking near beer you're near drunk.


:)

i have tried the non-alcoholic wine, a couple times, and each time,
i get the old familiar "face flush", i use to get after my first
glass of booze, no matter what it was.
though the amount of alcohol is small, it apparently is enough to
trigger my body systems.
NOT WORTH the trouble or the risk!

recently at a party, i watched an old recovering friend of mine
drinking "near"beer.....................he reminded me of the old
days............you know, "the two fisted
drinker".....................he was tossing them down, one right
after another.............scary!

[neuro equipoise]

On Thu, Jan 29, 2004, 11:14am
joshuaerobinson@earthlink.net (Josh) wrote:

> As a person new to AA. Is it ok to drink
> Non-Alcohlic Beer??? Or is
> that a no no !!!

A study on craving "triggering", found that the smell was sometimes
enough to raise dopamine levels, starting the addiction cycle.

Quote:

"In the November issue of the Journal Alcoholism: Clinical &
Experimental Research, a team of California scientists report that smell
may be enough to trigger cravings and a subsequent relapse among certain
alcoholics".

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/relapse/a/aa000104.htm

[Kirk S]

Hi,

I waited four years before I started drinking NA beer. I can't say that it
triggered anything in me except the urge to urinate. I did notice that I
started to follow old patterns of drinking though. The two fisted part fit
me for sure. Also, once I had started drinking again, I would grab one of
those so I could be around my family that wasn't aware of my choice to start
again.

For someone new in abstaining from drinking, I would say that if it walks
like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck. If you have any doubts
about it (and the fact that you are asking indicates to me that you have),
then you already know the answer.

I find carbonated water very satisfying now... No calories and no beer
look, taste or smell. Cheaper, too!

Kirk
"neuro equipoise" <NeuroEquipoise@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:773-4019115D-45@storefull-3272.bay.webtv.net...
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2004, 11:14am
> joshuaerobinson@earthlink.net (Josh) wrote:
>
> > As a person new to AA. Is it ok to drink
> > Non-Alcohlic Beer??? Or is
> > that a no no !!!
>
> A study on craving "triggering", found that the smell was sometimes
> enough to raise dopamine levels, starting the addiction cycle.
>
> Quote:
>
> "In the November issue of the Journal Alcoholism: Clinical &
> Experimental Research, a team of California scientists report that smell
> may be enough to trigger cravings and a subsequent relapse among certain
> alcoholics".
>
> http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/relapse/a/aa000104.htm
>

[Robert McGregor]

"Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:E0aSb.3276$2h.889@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Hi,
>
> I waited four years before I started drinking NA beer. I can't say that
it
> triggered anything in me except the urge to urinate. I did notice that I
> started to follow old patterns of drinking though. The two fisted part
fit
> me for sure. Also, once I had started drinking again, I would grab one of
> those so I could be around my family that wasn't aware of my choice to
start
> again.
>
> For someone new in abstaining from drinking, I would say that if it walks
> like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck. If you have any doubts
> about it (and the fact that you are asking indicates to me that you have),
> then you already know the answer.
>
> I find carbonated water very satisfying now... No calories and no beer
> look, taste or smell. Cheaper, too!
>
> Kirk

After about 4 years diligent commitment to 12 step recovery, experiencing a
new dimension of freedom from alcohol that I had never imagined possible, I
lapsed into an incomprehensible period of being restless, irritable, and
discontented. http://silkworth.net/bb/doctorsopinion.htmlxxv

When I mentioned my bemusement to one of the most experienced AA "slippers"
I knew, he immediately asked if I was "taking" anything new. "Only 1 or 2
miniature drops of herbal sleep medication daily." (during broken roster
shiftwork) I replied. "Go check the small print on the label" said the
slipper. Sure enough, that tiny bottle contained alcohol. It took a couple
of days to replace that medication with alcohol free tablets, but the
discontent, and "hard knuckling sobriety" lasted for over a month.

Just about every time I mention that experience, there is a chorus of
disbelief from the low alcohol beer drinking contingent in/around AA, with
statistical claims that orange juice quickly accumulates more alcohol than
their beer. That's why I originally refrained from mentioning it in my
earlier reply in this thread.

Mostly, the concensus appears to have been, if they never subsequently get
drunk after their "near beer," they have proven they have not been adversely
affected by drinking it.

Arguably, at least some of them are far more restless, irritable, and
discontented than they would have been without their "near beer" and
associated minimalist recovery attitudes.

I suggest that if you, Kirk, want more assurance of freedom this time, you
start from the beginning. There is a heap of implicit change on page 58+
http://silkworth.net/bb/howitworks.html before even contemplating step one.

Bob

> "neuro equipoise" <NeuroEquipoise@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:773-4019115D-45@storefull-3272.bay.webtv.net...
> > On Thu, Jan 29, 2004, 11:14am
> > joshuaerobinson@earthlink.net (Josh) wrote:
> >
> > > As a person new to AA. Is it ok to drink
> > > Non-Alcohlic Beer??? Or is
> > > that a no no !!!
> >
> > A study on craving "triggering", found that the smell was sometimes
> > enough to raise dopamine levels, starting the addiction cycle.
> >
> > Quote:
> >
> > "In the November issue of the Journal Alcoholism: Clinical &
> > Experimental Research, a team of California scientists report that smell
> > may be enough to trigger cravings and a subsequent relapse among certain
> > alcoholics".
> >
> > http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/relapse/a/aa000104.htm
> >
>
>

[Kirk S]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bvbe8r$q3d8p$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:E0aSb.3276$2h.889@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I waited four years before I started drinking NA beer. I can't say that
> it
> > triggered anything in me except the urge to urinate. I did notice that
I
> > started to follow old patterns of drinking though. The two fisted part
> fit
> > me for sure. Also, once I had started drinking again, I would grab one
of
> > those so I could be around my family that wasn't aware of my choice to
> start
> > again.
> >
> > For someone new in abstaining from drinking, I would say that if it
walks
> > like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck. If you have any
doubts
> > about it (and the fact that you are asking indicates to me that you
have),
> > then you already know the answer.
> >
> > I find carbonated water very satisfying now... No calories and no beer
> > look, taste or smell. Cheaper, too!
> >
> > Kirk
>
> After about 4 years diligent commitment to 12 step recovery, experiencing
a
> new dimension of freedom from alcohol that I had never imagined possible,
I
> lapsed into an incomprehensible period of being restless, irritable, and
> discontented. http://silkworth.net/bb/doctorsopinion.htmlxxv
>
> When I mentioned my bemusement to one of the most experienced AA
"slippers"
> I knew, he immediately asked if I was "taking" anything new. "Only 1 or 2
> miniature drops of herbal sleep medication daily." (during broken roster
> shiftwork) I replied. "Go check the small print on the label" said the
> slipper. Sure enough, that tiny bottle contained alcohol. It took a couple
> of days to replace that medication with alcohol free tablets, but the
> discontent, and "hard knuckling sobriety" lasted for over a month.
>
> Just about every time I mention that experience, there is a chorus of
> disbelief from the low alcohol beer drinking contingent in/around AA, with
> statistical claims that orange juice quickly accumulates more alcohol than
> their beer. That's why I originally refrained from mentioning it in my
> earlier reply in this thread.
>
> Mostly, the concensus appears to have been, if they never subsequently get
> drunk after their "near beer," they have proven they have not been
adversely
> affected by drinking it.
>
> Arguably, at least some of them are far more restless, irritable, and
> discontented than they would have been without their "near beer" and
> associated minimalist recovery attitudes.
>
> I suggest that if you, Kirk, want more assurance of freedom this time, you
> start from the beginning. There is a heap of implicit change on page 58+
> http://silkworth.net/bb/howitworks.html before even contemplating step
one.
>
> Bob
>
Bob,

Thanks for the advice and information. I've been looking into the rational
recovery theory and believe that it is correct for me. The part that
concerns me about it is the hateful attitude towards AA. Whatever works is
fine, since AA works for many people, great. I got a lot of good out of AA
and use things I learned to deal with life on life's terms. Just like
religion, I believe everyone has the right to choose their own way and not
judge or condemn others because they choose a different path. I chose to
believe that I was 'cured' and accept now that I will never be 'cured'.
Desiring to take the first drink is the first sign that I'm not. Any
thought that believes I can drink means that I am not cured.

For me, drinking NA was wishing I was ok to drink again. Eventually, I
convinced myself that I could. Just as I started back smoking once, I am
now convinced that it is simply something that I cannot do if I want to have
any sort of meaningful life. Call it a personality trait or a physical
reaction; doesn't matter either way. Knowing that I will not choose to
drink responsibly, logically and rationally eliminates it as a choice now or
in the future. Things can never be so bad that drinking won't make them
worse. I absolutely know that to be true.

Thanks again and best wishes!

Kirk S

> > "neuro equipoise" <NeuroEquipoise@webtv.net> wrote in message
> > news:773-4019115D-45@storefull-3272.bay.webtv.net...
> > > On Thu, Jan 29, 2004, 11:14am
> > > joshuaerobinson@earthlink.net (Josh) wrote:
> > >
> > > > As a person new to AA. Is it ok to drink
> > > > Non-Alcohlic Beer??? Or is
> > > > that a no no !!!
> > >
> > > A study on craving "triggering", found that the smell was sometimes
> > > enough to raise dopamine levels, starting the addiction cycle.
> > >
> > > Quote:
> > >
> > > "In the November issue of the Journal Alcoholism: Clinical &
> > > Experimental Research, a team of California scientists report that
smell
> > > may be enough to trigger cravings and a subsequent relapse among
certain
> > > alcoholics".
> > >
> > > http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/relapse/a/aa000104.htm
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Robert McGregor]

"Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:LpbSb.3284$2h.1917@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Thanks for the advice and information. I've been looking into the
rational
> recovery theory and believe that it is correct for me.

Kirk, that was remiss of me to forget your earlier post re AA. Oh well, I'm
an opinionated old bastard, and enjoy my relatively newfound freedom to
laugh at my ignorant mistakes; even if it's very very very seldom I make
them;-)

Bob the remised.

[Kirk S]

Bob,

I have nothing against AA; it just doesn't "feel" right to me. It may be
denial or anything else. I'm also learning not to be too "smart" or
"righteous" in my short term recovery. After all, I did choose to start
drinking again because I was "smart" enough to handle it this time around.

I feel like one of those early cartoons where the guys head turns into a
jack-ass or sucker!

I'll aways use some AA jargon because it just fits. Name it, Claim it, Dump
it works. Take what you want and leave the rest. Resentments more than
anything else are what haunt me and getting rid of them by admitting to
them, making them my choice and apologizing to whomever I am resentful
towards is the only way I will remain happy.

Being able to laugh at ones self is important as long as it doesn't turn
critical.

Every day is a chance to learn for me...

Kirk S.

"I will not criticise myself; there are plenty of people out there that will
do it for me!"

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bvbhvd$q8rrv$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:LpbSb.3284$2h.1917@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Thanks for the advice and information. I've been looking into the
> rational
> > recovery theory and believe that it is correct for me.
>
> Kirk, that was remiss of me to forget your earlier post re AA. Oh well,
I'm
> an opinionated old bastard, and enjoy my relatively newfound freedom to
> laugh at my ignorant mistakes; even if it's very very very seldom I make
> them;-)
>
> Bob the remised.
>
>

[Mias]

Dear Josh
I have switche to non-alcoholic AA. No, it is not a joke, when I have been
to an AA meeting I feel so good about sobriety and thanfull that I dont need
the dummy of non-alcoholic wine. It is a bit like people that said they like
the taste of brandy and then mix it with coke...
Kind regards
Mias
"Josh" <joshuaerobinson@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:p1rh10lfsrnhkqcvq930q7bph5bakmnpmc@4ax.com...
> As a person new to AA. Is it ok to drink Non-Alcohlic Beer??? Or is
> that a no no !!!
> Thanks
> Josh

[neuro equipoise]

On Thu, Jan 29, 2004, 9:54am (EST-1) kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com
(Kirk*S) wrote:

> I waited four years before I started drinking
> NA beer. I can't say that it triggered anything
> in me except the urge to urinate. I did notice
> that I started to follow old patterns of drinking
> though. The two fisted part fit me for sure.

Dopamine levels have a role in affecting the anti-diuretic hormone. If
this "non-alcoholic" beer contains mannitol or maltitol, those are
"natural sugar alcohols" and they do increase urine flow, increase
dopamine, and increase stress hormones. Any increase in stress
hormones, starts the "over-excitability" in the part of the brain which
acts as an "idling mechanism" and those prone to alcoholism have altered
"idling and braking" mechanisms.

A higher protein, low carb diet, has more of a calming effect on this
area. High carbohydrates cause blood sugar yo-yoing, mood swings, and
the plunge in blood sugar can start an addictive cycle.


Research Quote:

Maltitol, like sorbitol, mannitol, and xylitol, is a sugar alcohol, also
called a polyol. It is made by hydrogenating maltose, which is obtained
from corn syrup. Like other sugar alcohols, mannitol is not absorbed
well by the body...
http://www.cspinet.org/reports/chemcuisine.htm

[Ron]

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:41:36 -0500 (EST),
neuro equipoise <NeuroEquipoise@webtv.net> wrote:

> A higher protein, low carb diet, has more of a calming effect on this
> area. High carbohydrates cause blood sugar yo-yoing, mood swings, and
> the plunge in blood sugar can start an addictive cycle.

Thanks for posting. I'm very much interested in what research has to
say about the biology behind this stuff.

--
AB5DB9CC

[neuro equipoise]

On Thu, Jan 29, 2004, 6:23pm (EST+5) kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com
(Kirk*S) wrote:

> Resentments more than anything else are
> what haunt me and getting rid of them by
> admitting to them, making them my choice
> and apologizing to whomever I am resentful
> towards is the only way I will remain happy.

Resentment is a sign that a one needs to nurture oneself. Part of the
addiction cycle of thinking, is *externalizing* needs, but as healing
occurs, brain pathways change, and these resentful feelings no longer
dominate.

The more open-hearted a person is, the more dopamine receptors are
built. The more generous, the more social, the more dopamine receptors
are built. Dopamine receptors are responsible for the transmission of
nurturing, loving hormones in the pituitary, which strengthen "bonding".
Dopamine receptors are also responsible for endorphin flow, allowing one
to feel happy, lower pain thresholds, and these positive chemicals also
lower anxiety hormones.

The abundance of dopamine receptors is what allows one to experience
"higher mind" and to be able to see the larger patterns in life,
holistically. Dopamine receptors are what you could call the
neuro-biology network of "Spirit mind", the Creative self. Our brains
are designed to work optimally when dopamine receptors are at healthful
levels in both brain hemispheres. The left hemisphere thinks step by
step, but those who are right brain dominant
see whole patterns, and linear learning methods aren't as compatible
with right brain thinkers.

[neuro equipoise]

Thu, Jan 29, 2004, 7:20pm (EST+5) From: can@the.spam (Ron)
>> On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:41:36 -0500 (EST),
>> neuro equipoise
>> <NeuroEquipoise@webtv.net> wrote:

>> A higher protein, low carb diet, has more of
>> a calming effect on this area. High
>> carbohydrates cause blood sugar yo-yoing,
>> mood swings, and the plunge in blood sugar
>> can start an addictive cycle.

> Thanks for posting. I'm very much interested
> in what research has to say about the biology
> behind this stuff.

Right now, research is investigating the "idling and braking" mechanism
in the brain as being malfunctioning in those who are at high risk for
alcoholism. There are not enough "calming" chemicals in the brain in
those people, and that causes the "overexcitability" during any stress
in life. "Braking" chemicals are also lacking in these people. Some
research is working on trying to alter these systems with amino acid
supplements, such as glutamine and GABA, and some researchers are
working on meds.

Here is an excerpt explaining some of this. I'll be posting other
references concerning the research on glutamine and how it affects the
alcohol-altered brain, including it's role in attention deficit
disorder. There is a lot online concerning this "glutamate/GABA"
imbalance,
including diet and supplements which help curb the "overexcitability".
The more natural the foods, the avoidance of processed sugar, and the
proper balance between protein and carbs, *does* make a positive
difference for many people with this condition.


Research Quote:

"In the March issue of Alcoholism: Clinical & Experimental Research,
researchers examine a group of young people who are at increased genetic
risk for alcoholism as a result of having a high prevalence of
alcoholism in their biological lineage. Study authors hypothesize that
high risk for alcoholism is related to brain hyperexcitability,
including impaired brain inhibitory mechanisms.

"We have been studying brain deficits in chronic alcoholics for many
years using brain wave recordings," said Bernice Porjesz, associate
professor of psychiatry at State University of New York, Health Science
Center and one of the paper's authors. "We have found that some of these
deficits do not recover with prolonged abstinence from alcohol. Our
studies of high-risk children of alcoholics, prior to any exposure to
alcohol, indicate that many of these electrophysiological anomalies
antecede the development of alcoholism. Based on these studies, we
hypothesized that a predisposition to developing alcoholism involves a
deficit in central nervous system inhibition, which can also be called
hyperexcitability."

Porjesz explained that most of the excitatory neurotransmission in the
human brain is likely mediated by glutamate or a related excitatory
amino acid. One category of glutamate receptor, N-methyl-D-aspartate
(NMDA), is also responsible for some of the diverse effects of alcohol
on the central nervous system (CNS). Gamma- aminobutyric acid (GABA) is
a major inhibitory neurotransmitter in the human brain. GABAA receptors
are also sensitive to alcohol and have been found to be deficient in the
brains of alcoholics. A balance between these excitatory (glutamatergic)
and inhibitory (GABAergic) systems in the brain provides CNS
homeostasis, which is important for stable affective and cognitive
processing (such as learning and memory function)".
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2001-03/ACER-Edoi-1303101.php

>
> Being able to laugh at ones self is important as long as it
doesn't turn
> critical.
>
>
> Kirk S.


ALWAYS good advice!

> On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:41:36 -0500 (EST),
> neuro equipoise <NeuroEquipoise@webtv.net> wrote:
>
> > A higher protein, low carb diet, has more of a calming effect on
this
> > area. High carbohydrates cause blood sugar yo-yoing, mood
swings, and
> > the plunge in blood sugar can start an addictive cycle.



your RIGHT ON THE BUTTON, imo!

[Robert McGregor]

Kirk, just for the record.

Recognising the difference between the AA organisation, and the 12 step AA
program, the organisation/fellowship arguably does more harm to society than
good.

Bob

"Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:LccSb.16614$M81.13373@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Bob,
>
> I have nothing against AA; it just doesn't "feel" right to me. It may be
> denial or anything else. I'm also learning not to be too "smart" or
> "righteous" in my short term recovery. After all, I did choose to start
> drinking again because I was "smart" enough to handle it this time around.
>
> I feel like one of those early cartoons where the guys head turns into a
> jack-ass or sucker!
>
> I'll aways use some AA jargon because it just fits. Name it, Claim it,
Dump
> it works. Take what you want and leave the rest. Resentments more than
> anything else are what haunt me and getting rid of them by admitting to
> them, making them my choice and apologizing to whomever I am resentful
> towards is the only way I will remain happy.
>
> Being able to laugh at ones self is important as long as it doesn't turn
> critical.
>
> Every day is a chance to learn for me...
>
> Kirk S.
>
> "I will not criticise myself; there are plenty of people out there that
will
> do it for me!"
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bvbhvd$q8rrv$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:LpbSb.3284$2h.1917@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Thanks for the advice and information. I've been looking into the
> > rational
> > > recovery theory and believe that it is correct for me.
> >
> > Kirk, that was remiss of me to forget your earlier post re AA. Oh well,
> I'm
> > an opinionated old bastard, and enjoy my relatively newfound freedom to
> > laugh at my ignorant mistakes; even if it's very very very seldom I make
> > them;-)
> >
> > Bob the remised.
> >
> >
>
>

[Kirk S]

Bob,

Agreed! I got tired of listening to drunk-a-logs. If they had just told
the truth about how much they ENJOYED it at the time instead of making is
seem like they were being forced to drink, it would have made more sense to
me.

I admit it; I LOVE the feeling it gives me at the time. In fact, I LOVE it
so much that I will forsake family, friends, job, car, etc. to do it.
Therefore, I choose not to. Any other choice is denial of the truth for
me. I believe that for anyone to lead a happy, healthy life, one must do "a
daily inventory" and take care of the things that need to be taken care of.
Isn't that what being "spiritual" is all about?

Off topic: I was thinking the other day about the last two Matrix movies
and the Agent Smith character. It seems to me that he embodies the
addictive nature in us: ME, ME and MORE ME... Am I crazy, or does it make
sense?

Kirk S.

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bvc6ql$qkmqr$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Kirk, just for the record.
>
> Recognising the difference between the AA organisation, and the 12 step AA
> program, the organisation/fellowship arguably does more harm to society
than
> good.
>
> Bob
>
> "Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:LccSb.16614$M81.13373@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Bob,
> >
> > I have nothing against AA; it just doesn't "feel" right to me. It may
be
> > denial or anything else. I'm also learning not to be too "smart" or
> > "righteous" in my short term recovery. After all, I did choose to start
> > drinking again because I was "smart" enough to handle it this time
around.
> >
> > I feel like one of those early cartoons where the guys head turns into a
> > jack-ass or sucker!
> >
> > I'll aways use some AA jargon because it just fits. Name it, Claim it,
> Dump
> > it works. Take what you want and leave the rest. Resentments more than
> > anything else are what haunt me and getting rid of them by admitting to
> > them, making them my choice and apologizing to whomever I am resentful
> > towards is the only way I will remain happy.
> >
> > Being able to laugh at ones self is important as long as it doesn't turn
> > critical.
> >
> > Every day is a chance to learn for me...
> >
> > Kirk S.
> >
> > "I will not criticise myself; there are plenty of people out there that
> will
> > do it for me!"
> >
> > "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:bvbhvd$q8rrv$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > "Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:LpbSb.3284$2h.1917@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > Thanks for the advice and information. I've been looking into the
> > > rational
> > > > recovery theory and believe that it is correct for me.
> > >
> > > Kirk, that was remiss of me to forget your earlier post re AA. Oh
well,
> > I'm
> > > an opinionated old bastard, and enjoy my relatively newfound freedom
to
> > > laugh at my ignorant mistakes; even if it's very very very seldom I
make
> > > them;-)
> > >
> > > Bob the remised.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Robert McGregor]

"Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:WvhSb.4415$sd.3311@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...

>I believe that for anyone to lead a happy, healthy life, one must do "a
> daily inventory" and take care of the things that need to be taken care
of.

I agree

> Isn't that what being "spiritual" is all about?
>

I disagree.

Seems to me that all the folk I have ever seen claiming to, or purported to
be, "spiritual" are as far from holistic balance as their mental
masturbation could possibly get them.

http://blank.org/link/?q=1075424021


Bob

[Christine]

>As a person new to AA. Is it ok to drink Non-Alcohlic Beer??? Or is
>that a no no !!!
>Thanks
>Josh

"Non-Alcoholic beer is for non-alcoholics"

A little saying that I tend to agree with myself. As always, IMO, what's the
f*ing point? I know that for me, I would immediatly get frustrated that I
wasn't getting a buzz and want a real beer, a real shot, a real gimlet, a real
bottle ... a real nothing of a life. No thanks. I don't need any added
temptation. However, that is just me :)

[Julie LaRue]

Do you really need someone to tell you the answer?
I dont now about you, but its the effect that casued me to drink the crap.
Julie

"Josh" <joshuaerobinson@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:p1rh10lfsrnhkqcvq930q7bph5bakmnpmc@4ax.com...
> As a person new to AA. Is it ok to drink Non-Alcohlic Beer??? Or is
> that a no no !!!
> Thanks
> Josh

[Julie LaRue]

Now that was worth reading!
Julie
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bvb1j9$qe4s9$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Josh" <joshuaerobinson@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:p1rh10lfsrnhkqcvq930q7bph5bakmnpmc@4ax.com...
> > As a person new to AA. Is it ok to drink Non-Alcohlic Beer??? Or is
> > that a no no !!!
> > Thanks
> > Josh
>
> It is suggested that a wise person avoids unnecessary risk, and a smart
> person profits from calculated risk.
>
> Pertaining to alcoholism, would you prefer to be smart, or wise?
>
> Bob
>
>