A question of honesty...

[Shashay Doofray]

"Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:xuwQb.63729$LW.21153@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Hi,
>
> I started drinking because I was unable to adequately deal with problems
> that came up in my relationship. I was afraid to discuss them with my sig
> other. I hid this from my sig other and family. Our relationship
continued
> to deteriorate and I became more and more dependent upon drinking to feel
in
> control. I finally told my sig other about it and we got into a big
> discussion about telling it to my family. My point is that I should do
> nothing that would cause others harm and my sig other's point is that I'm
> not being honest. My sig other believes I am not telling them so I will
> look like "the good guy" and I maintain that I don't want to cause them
> grief. I believe there is an element of truth on both sides however it
> isn't black and white. I feel like I'm between the rock and a hard place.
> I don't want to cause harm to my family yet by not telling, I've lost the
> trust of my sig other.
>
> HELP! I'm in conflict and can't see a solution...
>
> Kirk S.

IMHO what passes between two people with regard to their relationship is no
business of anyone else - family included. It is no ones business except
yours and your SO. You are adding unnecessary guilt related stress to the
relationshiop by having to deal with "telling or not telling" your family
about your personal matters.

Forget it. Deal with your SO by communicating and trying to understand why
you fear honest, open communications.

As for your drinking, I would seek some professional help on this. Drinking
for any other reason except it's fun is not healthy and ultimately will
negatively affect your relationships with everybody.

SD

[Kirk S]

Hi,

I started drinking because I was unable to adequately deal with problems
that came up in my relationship. I was afraid to discuss them with my sig
other. I hid this from my sig other and family. Our relationship continued
to deteriorate and I became more and more dependent upon drinking to feel in
control. I finally told my sig other about it and we got into a big
discussion about telling it to my family. My point is that I should do
nothing that would cause others harm and my sig other's point is that I'm
not being honest. My sig other believes I am not telling them so I will
look like "the good guy" and I maintain that I don't want to cause them
grief. I believe there is an element of truth on both sides however it
isn't black and white. I feel like I'm between the rock and a hard place.
I don't want to cause harm to my family yet by not telling, I've lost the
trust of my sig other.

HELP! I'm in conflict and can't see a solution...

Kirk S.

[>rosie]

kirk,
do you have a sponsor?

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often
groans
more loudly than an empty stomach.
...............................Franklin Delano Roosevelt

http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/










"Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:xuwQb.63729$LW.21153@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Hi,
>
> I started drinking because I was unable to adequately deal with
problems
> that came up in my relationship. I was afraid to discuss them
with my sig
> other. I hid this from my sig other and family. Our relationship
continued
> to deteriorate and I became more and more dependent upon drinking
to feel in
> control. I finally told my sig other about it and we got into a
big
> discussion about telling it to my family. My point is that I
should do
> nothing that would cause others harm and my sig other's point is
that I'm
> not being honest. My sig other believes I am not telling them so
I will
> look like "the good guy" and I maintain that I don't want to cause
them
> grief. I believe there is an element of truth on both sides
however it
> isn't black and white. I feel like I'm between the rock and a
hard place.
> I don't want to cause harm to my family yet by not telling, I've
lost the
> trust of my sig other.
>
> HELP! I'm in conflict and can't see a solution...
>
> Kirk S.
>
>

[Kirk S]

Rosie,

AA doesn't work for me... I don't accept the first rule and the whole
"higher power" thing is too religious for me. I started drinking heavily
after my father died because I didn't want to feel. I did the same thing in
my relationship after being sober for seven years because I was trying to
control how I felt.

I don't condemn anyone that AA works for. It just doesn't feel right for
me. I went through the rational recovery webpage and it feels right to me.
In fact, I really like the rational, logical approach. I really believe
that it is as simple as not picking up the drink and dealing with the issues
in life that fuel the desire. I have to experience my feelings instead of
trying to control them. We were made to have our feelings and all of them
are normal and natural. They are not good, bad, right or wrong. The
behavior we chose to use to deal with them IS good, bad, right or wrong.

Thanks!

Kirk S.
" >rosie<" <readandpostTAKETHISOUT@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zvwQb.63730$LW.6391@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> kirk,
> do you have a sponsor?
>
> --
> read and post daily, it works!
> rosie
>
> It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often
> groans
> more loudly than an empty stomach.
> ..............................Franklin Delano Roosevelt
>
> http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:xuwQb.63729$LW.21153@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I started drinking because I was unable to adequately deal with
> problems
> > that came up in my relationship. I was afraid to discuss them
> with my sig
> > other. I hid this from my sig other and family. Our relationship
> continued
> > to deteriorate and I became more and more dependent upon drinking
> to feel in
> > control. I finally told my sig other about it and we got into a
> big
> > discussion about telling it to my family. My point is that I
> should do
> > nothing that would cause others harm and my sig other's point is
> that I'm
> > not being honest. My sig other believes I am not telling them so
> I will
> > look like "the good guy" and I maintain that I don't want to cause
> them
> > grief. I believe there is an element of truth on both sides
> however it
> > isn't black and white. I feel like I'm between the rock and a
> hard place.
> > I don't want to cause harm to my family yet by not telling, I've
> lost the
> > trust of my sig other.
> >
> > HELP! I'm in conflict and can't see a solution...
> >
> > Kirk S.
> >
> >
>
>

[Bpyboy]

Kirk, none of us are PROUD of our activities (current or prior). Hell, I HAD
to tell the family, about a year and a half ago when I went home for
thanksgiving for the week, and my family driving me crazy, I was drinking a
TERRIFIC amount of beer and vodka. Until I got a phone call one morning, and
my mom came to get me, and saw just a HEAP of cans and bottles (that i was
"hiding", figuring that nobody would bother me).

Long story short, if you got a problem, your family might be your greatest
support system. after mine got over the initial shock (How can a guy, 150
pounds drink THAT MUCH?), they backed me up.

To "do nothing that would cause other's harm" is NOT a good plan. If you want
to SERIOUSLY cause your family harm, get drunk and total your car, or let
things progress (and continue down the slide). At some point, you'll either be
in recovery, or trying to bum money off them to support your problem! (that
doesn't work too well--trust me there!)

Just my thoughts. My family can be sort of harsh, but my dad (who was in
recovery) I could trust, and my brother, and dearest friend (who perhaps SHOULD
be in recovery) were behind me 110%. the rest, when they griped (in Wisconsin,
a drinking problem is more of a moral thing than anything else) I had to sort
of tell them to go to hell--it was get better or die time for me!

Honesty is the policy, my friend. You got it straight with your sig.
other--excellent start (that was my start too). If that isn't enough, you need
to tell your family. Obviously, you care enough about them that you value
there opinion of you?

Just my thoughts, i'm new at this too!
John

And, yeah, it's no fun to have to "admit" to such things, but for me, after it
was done, it was like a huge weight was off my back too. Then I fessed up to
freinds, then my boss...

bigger people than you and I combined have fallen into the pit. It isn't
something to be proud of, but certainly not something to be mortally ashamed of
either.

[>rosie]

sorry for assuming kirk......................i was confused by your
use to the AMENDS terminology (causing harm to others), and OF
COURSE, AA doesn't have a patent on the words!
:)

i am glad you have found some help with the RR approach, lots and
lots of folks have!

i agree that we must feel our feelings....................i have
been active in AA for 21+yrs now, and have never been told not to!
good thing, because i don't believe that works either!
:)



--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often
groans
more loudly than an empty stomach.
...............................Franklin Delano Roosevelt

http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/










"Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4GwQb.63732$LW.56104@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Rosie,
>
> AA doesn't work for me... I don't accept the first rule and the
whole
> "higher power" thing is too religious for me. I started drinking
heavily
> after my father died because I didn't want to feel. I did the
same thing in
> my relationship after being sober for seven years because I was
trying to
> control how I felt.
>
> I don't condemn anyone that AA works for. It just doesn't feel
right for
> me. I went through the rational recovery webpage and it feels
right to me.
> In fact, I really like the rational, logical approach. I really
believe
> that it is as simple as not picking up the drink and dealing with
the issues
> in life that fuel the desire. I have to experience my feelings
instead of
> trying to control them. We were made to have our feelings and all
of them
> are normal and natural. They are not good, bad, right or wrong.
The
> behavior we chose to use to deal with them IS good, bad, right or
wrong.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kirk S.
> " >rosie<" <readandpostTAKETHISOUT@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:zvwQb.63730$LW.6391@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > kirk,
> > do you have a sponsor?
> >
> > --
> > read and post daily, it works!
> > rosie
> >
> > It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often
> > groans
> > more loudly than an empty stomach.
> > ..............................Franklin Delano Roosevelt
> >
> > http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:xuwQb.63729$LW.21153@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I started drinking because I was unable to adequately deal
with
> > problems
> > > that came up in my relationship. I was afraid to discuss them
> > with my sig
> > > other. I hid this from my sig other and family. Our
relationship
> > continued
> > > to deteriorate and I became more and more dependent upon
drinking
> > to feel in
> > > control. I finally told my sig other about it and we got into
a
> > big
> > > discussion about telling it to my family. My point is that I
> > should do
> > > nothing that would cause others harm and my sig other's point
is
> > that I'm
> > > not being honest. My sig other believes I am not telling them
so
> > I will
> > > look like "the good guy" and I maintain that I don't want to
cause
> > them
> > > grief. I believe there is an element of truth on both sides
> > however it
> > > isn't black and white. I feel like I'm between the rock and a
> > hard place.
> > > I don't want to cause harm to my family yet by not telling,
I've
> > lost the
> > > trust of my sig other.
> > >
> > > HELP! I'm in conflict and can't see a solution...
> > >
> > > Kirk S.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[>rosie]

>................... the rest, when they griped (in Wisconsin,
> a drinking problem is more of a moral thing than anything else)


LOL!
you mean beer is NOT a dairy product here in wisconsin?

[Blue Moon]

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:02:08 GMT, "Kirk S"
<kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote:

>I don't condemn anyone that AA works for. It just doesn't feel right for
>me.

If it "felt right", you'd already be doing it.

Why drink, other than the notion that it "feels right" to do it?

Do you think there may be a smidgeon of a problem between what your
thinking tells you "feels right" and what is actually needed?

> I went through the rational recovery webpage and it feels right to me.
>In fact, I really like the rational, logical approach. I really believe
>that it is as simple as not picking up the drink and dealing with the issues
>in life that fuel the desire. I have to experience my feelings instead of
>trying to control them. We were made to have our feelings and all of them
>are normal and natural. They are not good, bad, right or wrong. The
>behavior we chose to use to deal with them IS good, bad, right or wrong.

That is PRECISELY what the AA program is designed to do. To this,
"God" is almost a red herring. In this context, "God" can be almost
anything other than the old rationalizations of self-will.

--
Blue Moon

[JB]

"Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4GwQb.63732$LW.56104@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Rosie,
>
> AA doesn't work for me... I don't accept the first rule and the
whole
> "higher power" thing is too religious for me. I started drinking
heavily
> after my father died because I didn't want to feel. I did the same
thing in
> my relationship after being sober for seven years because I was
trying to
> control how I felt.

Hi Kirk,

IMO, the second part of Step 1 covers attitude to life: "We admitted
that our lives had become unmanagable".

IMO, you have given an excellent example of how life can be
unmanageable, namely, our inability to prevent anyone we love from
dying.

If we use alcohol for example to try to stop ourselves from dealing
with the grief and pain that follows a loved one's death, then we're
giving their death the power to harm us, maybe even kill us. IMO,
those who chose safer ways to deal with their feelings after a loved
one dies - ie they don't use the death as a reason/excuse to abuse
alcohol or other harmful substances - therefore have greater control
over their lives.

JB.

[Lions Girl]

"Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I started drinking because I was unable to adequately deal with problems
> that came up in my relationship. I was afraid to discuss them with my
> sig other. I hid this from my sig other and family. Our relationship
> continued to deteriorate and I became more and more dependent upon
> drinking to feel in control. I finally told my sig other about it and we
> got into a big discussion about telling it to my family. My point is
> that I should do nothing that would cause others harm and my sig other's
> point is that I'm not being honest. My sig other believes I am not
> telling them so I will look like "the good guy" and I maintain that I
> don't want to cause them grief. I believe there is an element of truth
> on both sides however it isn't black and white. I feel like I'm between
> the rock and a hard place. I don't want to cause harm to my family yet by
> not telling, I've lost the trust of my sig other.
>
> HELP! I'm in conflict and can't see a solution...
>
> Kirk S.

I think that you should tell your family. Not because you shouldn't be
trying to play "the good guy" and not because it is a question of honesty,
but because you WILL need their support, if not their help. If you are
going to stop drinking and your family doesn't know they will (unwittingly)
put obsticals in your way. Be honest with them, not just for them, or your
S/O, but for your own good.

[Kirk S]

Thanks all... If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a
duck, it must be an excuse. I'm simply afraid of the disappointment they
will have in me. I should have more faith in them.

Rosie,

Don't be sorry... AA did help keep me out of the bars and bad places and
yes, my life is unmanagable when I drink instead of deal with problems.
However, I know that I am the problem and not the alcohol. Some of the
jargon has stuck with me and I only object to the religious overtones and
being powerless over an ethanol molecule.

Oh yeah, I'm not gay... I just used sig other to keep any issue of
man/woman stereotypes out of it. Of course, putting my first name down does
pretty much pin me down as the man.

Kirk S.

<Six days and counting... And no, having family disappointed in me isn't an
excuse to drink>
"Lions Girl" <lionsgirl2002@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:20040124164246.857$yI@newsreader.com...
> "Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I started drinking because I was unable to adequately deal with problems
> > that came up in my relationship. I was afraid to discuss them with my
> > sig other. I hid this from my sig other and family. Our relationship
> > continued to deteriorate and I became more and more dependent upon
> > drinking to feel in control. I finally told my sig other about it and
we
> > got into a big discussion about telling it to my family. My point is
> > that I should do nothing that would cause others harm and my sig other's
> > point is that I'm not being honest. My sig other believes I am not
> > telling them so I will look like "the good guy" and I maintain that I
> > don't want to cause them grief. I believe there is an element of truth
> > on both sides however it isn't black and white. I feel like I'm between
> > the rock and a hard place. I don't want to cause harm to my family yet
by
> > not telling, I've lost the trust of my sig other.
> >
> > HELP! I'm in conflict and can't see a solution...
> >
> > Kirk S.
>
> I think that you should tell your family. Not because you shouldn't be
> trying to play "the good guy" and not because it is a question of honesty,
> but because you WILL need their support, if not their help. If you are
> going to stop drinking and your family doesn't know they will
(unwittingly)
> put obsticals in your way. Be honest with them, not just for them, or
your
> S/O, but for your own good.

[DrLith]

"Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:xuwQb.63729$LW.21153@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> I don't want to cause harm to my family yet by not telling, I've lost the
> trust of my sig other.

Kirk:

Analyze the logic of your fear: you don't want to harm your family by
telling them *you* have a drinking problem. Now--how, in a strictly logical
sense, and keeping in mind what it really means to "harm" someone--how would
they be "harmed" if you confessed? How do you think you are "protecting"
them?

[Kirk S]

"DrLith" <drlith@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:buut3r$lm4mc$1@ID-132000.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:xuwQb.63729$LW.21153@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > I don't want to cause harm to my family yet by not telling, I've lost
the
> > trust of my sig other.
>
> Kirk:
>
> Analyze the logic of your fear: you don't want to harm your family by
> telling them *you* have a drinking problem. Now--how, in a strictly
logical
> sense, and keeping in mind what it really means to "harm" someone--how
would
> they be "harmed" if you confessed? How do you think you are "protecting"
> them?

Darn it DrLith,

That's the problem with using logic and reason... It makes sense even when
you don't want it to. My mother has a habit of making things her fault. I
guess that is her problem and not mine. I'm 45 and she still tries to treat
me like a child at times. Frustrating... I'll give her more credit.

Kirk S.
>
>

[Ron]

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:49:49 GMT, Kirk S <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote:

> I started drinking because I was unable to adequately deal with problems
> that came up in my relationship. I was afraid to discuss them with my sig
> other. I hid this from my sig other and family. Our relationship continued
> to deteriorate and I became more and more dependent upon drinking to feel in
> control. I finally told my sig other about it and we got into a big
> discussion about telling it to my family.

Someone at a meeting I went to before Christmas said that when she first
quit some years ago, it was right before the holidays. Her sponsor told
her to stay away from her family. She said she felt incredibly
relieved.

Now, families are all different, and sponsors run the gamut. But I
think there's a point here anyway. Fix your fundamental problem first.
Mend fences later. If 'coming out' to your family will help you, then
tell them. If it will only cause grief and anxiety, then bag it for a
while.

Just my opinion. I am not a licensed alcohol counselor. I'm sober
barely two months. I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn.

--
AB5DB9CC

[Tai]

Kirk S wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I started drinking because I was unable to adequately deal with
> problems that came up in my relationship. I was afraid to discuss
> them with my sig other. I hid this from my sig other and family.
> Our relationship continued to deteriorate and I became more and more
> dependent upon drinking to feel in control. I finally told my sig
> other about it and we got into a big discussion about telling it to
> my family. My point is that I should do nothing that would cause
> others harm and my sig other's point is that I'm not being honest.
> My sig other believes I am not telling them so I will look like "the
> good guy" and I maintain that I don't want to cause them grief. I
> believe there is an element of truth on both sides however it isn't
> black and white. I feel like I'm between the rock and a hard place.
> I don't want to cause harm to my family yet by not telling, I've lost
> the trust of my sig other.
>
> HELP! I'm in conflict and can't see a solution...

I don't think there is one right answer, Kirk, it depends on your specific
situation. If you don't feel you can trust your family with the knowledge of
your alcoholism then you may be justified in keeping it a secret from them.
On the other hand you could consider the possibility that they could help
you.

I don't really understand how which of either knowing or not knowing harms
your family more, though. Surely this is about you?

Tai

[Emma Anne]

Kirk S <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I started drinking because I was unable to adequately deal with problems
> that came up in my relationship. I was afraid to discuss them with my sig
> other. I hid this from my sig other and family. Our relationship continued
> to deteriorate and I became more and more dependent upon drinking to feel in
> control. I finally told my sig other about it and we got into a big
> discussion about telling it to my family. My point is that I should do
> nothing that would cause others harm and my sig other's point is that I'm
> not being honest. My sig other believes I am not telling them so I will
> look like "the good guy" and I maintain that I don't want to cause them
> grief.

My feeling is you should tell your family - not because your SO wants
you too, but because you need their support and you need to get out of
denial. And you need to get back in the habit of being honest.