What About Wine At Dinnertime

[Gloria]

I have been reading these post and I have a question. My sister is an
addict and has been clean for years with no problem Thank God. She
never had a drinking problem it was only heroin. We are not American
and in our culture we do drink wine at dinner as one would soda pop.
Even the children take a small amount at dinner. My father and
husband make it themselves by the barrel full. My sister got detoxed
by methadone which we all know can be very dangerous and addictive in
itself and can make a worse habit than heroin. Thats a whole
different story. All along my sister has drank this sangria type home
made wine at dinnertime. My father would be highly insulted if she
were to refuse it. Now here is the dilemma, we all know my sister is
clean from heroin, methadone and any other drugs, she has worked hard
at it and changed her life completely. Now she recently moved and
went to a new meeting and got a sponsor. The sponsor was invited to
my house for dinner with my sister and most naturally wine was served
at dinner. Thinking nothing of it my sister had her usual 4oz glass.
The sponsor went crazy and cause havok at my dinner table. This woman
went crazy yelling at all of us disrespecting my family and my sister
was reduced to tears. She was yelling at my sister saying she wasnt
clean and she called my family enablers. I personally this was
uncalled for. She could have talked to my sister privately in a more
civilized manner with causing an uproar My sister has made such
wonderful progress in her life and I am very proud of her. She had
been drug free for 16 years. She never drinks and gets drunk or
anything other than that tiny amount of wine. Can someone tell me if
all sponsors would act that way. My children were terrified as they
have never seen my sister drunk or high. They were born years after
she became clean. The are 9 and 10 years old and they never even knew
their aunt had a drug problem until last Sunday dinner. Please give
me some feedback.
Thanks
Gloria

[>rosie]

>...................... I personally this was
> uncalled for. She could have talked to my sister privately in a
more
> civilized manner


you are correct!



>She had
> been drug free for 16 years. She never drinks and gets drunk or
> anything other than that tiny amount of wine.


she DOES drink................wine is not a dairy product.
:)

[Fred Exley]

That sponsor is an idiot who shouldn't be anybody's sponsor! That's a
perfect example of why many people hate A.A. I don't know about herion, but
maybe your sister can drink safely. She doesn't sound like an alcoholic.
If the classic symptoms of an alcoholic begin to show, i.e., drinking more
and more, no ability to control when she stops, etc., THEN consider she may
be an alcoholic. But get rid of that sponsor! -Fred


<Gloria Trillo@Stugots.com (Gloria)> wrote in message
news:d931e2a358e8eb10b91a363d6a9000da@news.teranew s.com...
> I have been reading these post and I have a question. My sister is an
> addict and has been clean for years with no problem Thank God. She
> never had a drinking problem it was only heroin. We are not American
> and in our culture we do drink wine at dinner as one would soda pop.
> Even the children take a small amount at dinner. My father and
> husband make it themselves by the barrel full. My sister got detoxed
> by methadone which we all know can be very dangerous and addictive in
> itself and can make a worse habit than heroin. Thats a whole
> different story. All along my sister has drank this sangria type home
> made wine at dinnertime. My father would be highly insulted if she
> were to refuse it. Now here is the dilemma, we all know my sister is
> clean from heroin, methadone and any other drugs, she has worked hard
> at it and changed her life completely. Now she recently moved and
> went to a new meeting and got a sponsor. The sponsor was invited to
> my house for dinner with my sister and most naturally wine was served
> at dinner. Thinking nothing of it my sister had her usual 4oz glass.
> The sponsor went crazy and cause havok at my dinner table. This woman
> went crazy yelling at all of us disrespecting my family and my sister
> was reduced to tears. She was yelling at my sister saying she wasnt
> clean and she called my family enablers. I personally this was
> uncalled for. She could have talked to my sister privately in a more
> civilized manner with causing an uproar My sister has made such
> wonderful progress in her life and I am very proud of her. She had
> been drug free for 16 years. She never drinks and gets drunk or
> anything other than that tiny amount of wine. Can someone tell me if
> all sponsors would act that way. My children were terrified as they
> have never seen my sister drunk or high. They were born years after
> she became clean. The are 9 and 10 years old and they never even knew
> their aunt had a drug problem until last Sunday dinner. Please give
> me some feedback.
> Thanks
> Gloria

[Robert McGregor]

<Gloria Trillo@Stugots.com (Gloria)> wrote in message
news:d931e2a358e8eb10b91a363d6a9000da@news.teranew s.com...
>I personally this was
> uncalled for. She could have talked to my sister privately in a more
> civilized manner with causing an uproar

You could not have posted that to alt.recovery.na without trolling here for
an uproar?

Bob

[Robert McGregor]

" >rosie<" <readandpostTAKETHISOUT@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:H3SPb.98547$fq1.29625@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> >...................... I personally this was
> > uncalled for. She could have talked to my sister privately in a
> more
> > civilized manner
>
>
> you are correct!
>
>
>
> >She had
> > been drug free for 16 years. She never drinks and gets drunk or
> > anything other than that tiny amount of wine.
>
>
> she DOES drink................wine is not a dairy product.
> :)

From: "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
Message-ID: < wkHa.22568$fe.447991@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>
>YES, whatever works!
>i belong to the "old school" of counting sobriety from the LAST
>drink/drug,

From: "rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ZPSl5.19140$E05.340458@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>

>i am thinking about asking my pdoc to increase my celexa to
>60mg..........anyone else in here have good results with that dosage?
>my 40mg seems to be "pooping out"...........

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
Message-ID: <A98Ka.109221$Xl.2092045@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>

>
> i will never be recovered..............................

[debs]

Well you know who not to invite for dinner again don't you??

debs
<Gloria Trillo@Stugots.com (Gloria)> wrote in message
news:d931e2a358e8eb10b91a363d6a9000da@news.teranew s.com...
> I have been reading these post and I have a question. My sister is an
> addict and has been clean for years with no problem Thank God. She
> never had a drinking problem it was only heroin. We are not American
> and in our culture we do drink wine at dinner as one would soda pop.
> Even the children take a small amount at dinner. My father and
> husband make it themselves by the barrel full. My sister got detoxed
> by methadone which we all know can be very dangerous and addictive in
> itself and can make a worse habit than heroin. Thats a whole
> different story. All along my sister has drank this sangria type home
> made wine at dinnertime. My father would be highly insulted if she
> were to refuse it. Now here is the dilemma, we all know my sister is
> clean from heroin, methadone and any other drugs, she has worked hard
> at it and changed her life completely. Now she recently moved and
> went to a new meeting and got a sponsor. The sponsor was invited to
> my house for dinner with my sister and most naturally wine was served
> at dinner. Thinking nothing of it my sister had her usual 4oz glass.
> The sponsor went crazy and cause havok at my dinner table. This woman
> went crazy yelling at all of us disrespecting my family and my sister
> was reduced to tears. She was yelling at my sister saying she wasnt
> clean and she called my family enablers. I personally this was
> uncalled for. She could have talked to my sister privately in a more
> civilized manner with causing an uproar My sister has made such
> wonderful progress in her life and I am very proud of her. She had
> been drug free for 16 years. She never drinks and gets drunk or
> anything other than that tiny amount of wine. Can someone tell me if
> all sponsors would act that way. My children were terrified as they
> have never seen my sister drunk or high. They were born years after
> she became clean. The are 9 and 10 years old and they never even knew
> their aunt had a drug problem until last Sunday dinner. Please give
> me some feedback.
> Thanks
> Gloria

[Ron]

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:54:35 +1000,
Robert McGregor <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

><Gloria Trillo@Stugots.com (Gloria)> wrote in message
> news:d931e2a358e8eb10b91a363d6a9000da@news.teranew s.com...
>>I personally this was
>> uncalled for. She could have talked to my sister privately in a more
>> civilized manner with causing an uproar
>
> You could not have posted that to alt.recovery.na without trolling here for
> an uproar?

I don't think she's trolling. It's an alcohol related question.

I've never had to quit heroin, thank god, so I don't know what it
takes. Your rude guest's behaviour makes me raise an eyebrow, however,
because she's implying that if you're addicted to one thing, you have a
problem with the other.

On the other hand, those who find abstinence from alcohol
(vs. moderation) the only solution to their problem often say they find
it necessary to abstain from other things (e.g. pot) as well in order to
succeed with their recovery. I haven't been sober long enough to have
experienced (or not experienced) such interactions personally.

Even if an ex-heroin addict shouldn't sip wine, though, this sponsor's
behaviour sounds atrocious. If your sister would like to avoid
insanity, she should give this nitwit the boot. I'm sure she could find
someone else to support her who's not socially retarded.

--
AB5DB9CC

[Bobby L.]

"Fred Exley" <fexly221@msn.com> wrote in message
news:100vsckq1n7jr49@corp.supernews.com...
> That sponsor is an idiot who shouldn't be anybody's sponsor! That's a
> perfect example of why many people hate A.A. I don't know about herion,
but
> maybe your sister can drink safely. She doesn't sound like an alcoholic.
> If the classic symptoms of an alcoholic begin to show, i.e., drinking more
> and more, no ability to control when she stops, etc., THEN consider she
may
> be an alcoholic. But get rid of that sponsor! -Fred
>
>

Hey.... Don't give AA credit for an NA sponsor....

Other than that I agree. I would look for another person to work with.

[Christine]

>Your rude guest's behaviour makes me raise an eyebrow, however,
>because she's implying that if you're addicted to one thing, you have a
>problem with the other.

There is a lot of that in AA I have found ... there are some people who
believe that one shouldn't use Listerine or NyQuil or a presribed pain med for
a purpose. I disagree. I have taken NyQuil once since I've been sober and it
was becuase I was sick, not because I just wanted to fall asleep. I didn't
feel the need to change my sobriety date, talk to my sponsor about it, or
"confess" it at a meeting. I also use Listerine as a part of my dental care,
as directed by my dentist. It does not, for my, cause cravings and I never
feel the need to swallow it. I have always thought this thinking to be extreme,
however, I was at a meeting last week when a man was talking about how, after
he stopped drinking booze, he started buying mouth wash by the case and then,
actually, went from there to purfume. Wowie. I guess for some it is wise to
abstain from all alcohol contained products. I feel this fits in the "whatever
works for you" catagory.

If this lady feels a glass of wine with dinner with the fam is like drinking a
glass of milk and doesn't make her crave heroin or any other type of drug
(including another and another glass of wine) then so be it. The sponsor was
completely out of line, and she should find another sponsor.

[Robert McGregor]

"Christine" <ctbean3@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040122194939.21785.00000515@mb-m14.aol.com...
I was at a meeting last week when a man was talking about how, after
> he stopped drinking booze, he started buying mouth wash by the case and
then,
> actually, went from there to purfume. Wowie. I guess for some it is wise
to
> abstain from all alcohol contained products. I feel this fits in the
"whatever
> works for you" catagory.
>

Contextually more correctly, Alcoholics Anonymous specifies the "real
alcoholic" category.

http://silkworth.net/bb/thereisasolution.html
"We are equally positive that once he takes any alcohol whatever into his
system, something happens,"

Bob

[Mias]

Dear Gloria
Let us create a different scenario.
Say your husband has been unfaithful on numerous occasions.
He goes to see a psychologist and joins a group to enable him to come of his
sexual addiction.
The psychologist suggests that seeing that he is now 'recovered' he must try
sleeping naked with an 18 year old blond babe but not have sex. This will
prove he is now recoverd and make him 'stronger'.
You might think the psychologist is a total idiot perhaps?
No more questions.
Kind regards
Mias
<Gloria Trillo@Stugots.com (Gloria)> wrote in message
news:d931e2a358e8eb10b91a363d6a9000da@news.teranew s.com...
> I have been reading these post and I have a question. My sister is an
> addict and has been clean for years with no problem Thank God. She
> never had a drinking problem it was only heroin. We are not American
> and in our culture we do drink wine at dinner as one would soda pop.
> Even the children take a small amount at dinner. My father and
> husband make it themselves by the barrel full. My sister got detoxed
> by methadone which we all know can be very dangerous and addictive in
> itself and can make a worse habit than heroin. Thats a whole
> different story. All along my sister has drank this sangria type home
> made wine at dinnertime. My father would be highly insulted if she
> were to refuse it. Now here is the dilemma, we all know my sister is
> clean from heroin, methadone and any other drugs, she has worked hard
> at it and changed her life completely. Now she recently moved and
> went to a new meeting and got a sponsor. The sponsor was invited to
> my house for dinner with my sister and most naturally wine was served
> at dinner. Thinking nothing of it my sister had her usual 4oz glass.
> The sponsor went crazy and cause havok at my dinner table. This woman
> went crazy yelling at all of us disrespecting my family and my sister
> was reduced to tears. She was yelling at my sister saying she wasnt
> clean and she called my family enablers. I personally this was
> uncalled for. She could have talked to my sister privately in a more
> civilized manner with causing an uproar My sister has made such
> wonderful progress in her life and I am very proud of her. She had
> been drug free for 16 years. She never drinks and gets drunk or
> anything other than that tiny amount of wine. Can someone tell me if
> all sponsors would act that way. My children were terrified as they
> have never seen my sister drunk or high. They were born years after
> she became clean. The are 9 and 10 years old and they never even knew
> their aunt had a drug problem until last Sunday dinner. Please give
> me some feedback.
> Thanks
> Gloria

[Mias]

Dear Gloria
Forgot to add - you might not even begin to imagine the dark, clammy,
miserable, lonely sheer hell of being an alcoholic still drinking.
Believe me, if you successfully came out of that hell you would NEVER want
to return.
I definitely do not want to return there and thus avoid food cooked with
wine, after shave, x-mass pudding etc. because I simply do not want to take
the least chance that I might relapse because of such an indulgence.
I can not stop wondering why family, who have probably written a drunk
person of in disgust, can have alcohol in front of that person. The
reasoning is extremely simple, if the family is NOT addicted to alcohol they
would NOT need it and it would thus be NOT important. It would be no sweat
to just not drink alcohol?
I am afraid there is a lot of addiction denied in some families of
alcoholics and that alcohol is cunning etc.
Kind regards
Mias - 14 years clean and sober and enjoying every second!

[Mias]

Dear Gloria
Putten differently - is it not truly amazing that people who was willing to
do 'anything' so that a friend or family member will stop drinking, those
same people who threw booze down the drain and removed hidden bottles and
refused to give money for drink, must drink in front of that same person
saying, in effect, look how happy and friendly alcohol makes us.
That sponsor had a lot of guts and love for alcoholics. The proof lies in
the fact that you posted on this group and got some responses. Perhaps you
needed a wake up call so that you could ask the simple question.'If I am not
addicted to a substance why must I take it in a situation where it might
endanger someone elses health?
Alcohol is cunning, baffling etc.
Kind regards
Mias

[Mias]

Dear Gloria
Sorry - I owe you an apology. I did not see that the original problem was
heroin. It might still warrant you however to look at addiction as substance
abuse and not drug specific. IMHO many abusers shift between alcohol and
drugs.
Kind regards
Mias
"Mias" <emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
news:40109d0a.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
> Dear Gloria
> Putten differently - is it not truly amazing that people who was willing
to
> do 'anything' so that a friend or family member will stop drinking, those
> same people who threw booze down the drain and removed hidden bottles and
> refused to give money for drink, must drink in front of that same person
> saying, in effect, look how happy and friendly alcohol makes us.
> That sponsor had a lot of guts and love for alcoholics. The proof lies in
> the fact that you posted on this group and got some responses. Perhaps you
> needed a wake up call so that you could ask the simple question.'If I am
not
> addicted to a substance why must I take it in a situation where it might
> endanger someone elses health?
> Alcohol is cunning, baffling etc.
> Kind regards
> Mias
>
>

[Ron]

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:15:27 +1000,
Robert McGregor <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> Contextually more correctly, Alcoholics Anonymous specifies the "real
> alcoholic" category.

Ahh, yes, the estimable 'real alcoholic'. All others are pretenders to
the throne.

--
AB5DB9CC

[Robert McGregor]

"Ron" <can@the.spam> wrote in message
news:Kd1Qb.104212$5V2.409298@attbi_s53...
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:15:27 +1000,
> Robert McGregor <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> > Contextually more correctly, Alcoholics Anonymous specifies the "real
> > alcoholic" category.
>
> Ahh, yes, the estimable 'real alcoholic'. All others are pretenders to
> the throne.
>
> --
> AB5DB9CC

Nothing quite like the irony of ungrateful pretenders.

Bob

[Ron]

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 05:43:55 +0200, Mias <emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote:

> I definitely do not want to return there and thus avoid food cooked with
> wine, after shave, x-mass pudding etc. because I simply do not want to take
> the least chance that I might relapse because of such an indulgence.

I feel the same way. I quit smoking once for a year. I actually won a
$1000 bet because of it. Having 'cured' myself of my habit, I thought I
could have one once in a while. I smoked for many more years before I
was finally able to kick the habit. For good I hope. I will not touch
another cigarette. Or cigar. Or pipe. Etc.

I'm hoping I don't have to learn the same lesson with alcohol...

> I can not stop wondering why family, who have probably written a drunk
> person of in disgust, can have alcohol in front of that person.

I actually find I feel more comfortable if people behave normally around
me. I don't mean to hang out with my buddies at the bar, but I'd rather
my family enjoy their wine with dinner. If they don't, it makes me feel
awkward.

> Mias - 14 years clean and sober and enjoying every second!

Ron - almost 2 months sober, and pretending he knows what he's talking
about!

--
AB5DB9CC

[Mias]

"Ron" <can@the.spam> wrote in message
news:Ux1Qb.127892$xy6.490041@attbi_s02...
> I actually find I feel more comfortable if people behave normally around
> me. I don't mean to hang out with my buddies at the bar, but I'd rather
> my family enjoy their wine with dinner. If they don't, it makes me feel
> awkward.

Dear Ron
I agree with you on that score. I do not mind if people want to drink but do
find the atmosphere generally degenerative after some hours of heavy
partying and mostly excuse myself early. Cigarette smoke on the other hand
makes me 'horny' for nicotine.
The example I wished to make was that we are all 'addicted' to water but do
not have to have it at meals say. More from the family and friends
perspective.
Kind regards
Mias
"Ron" <can@the.spam> wrote in message
news:Ux1Qb.127892$xy6.490041@attbi_s02...
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 05:43:55 +0200, Mias <emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za>
wrote:
>
> > I definitely do not want to return there and thus avoid food cooked with
> > wine, after shave, x-mass pudding etc. because I simply do not want to
take
> > the least chance that I might relapse because of such an indulgence.
>
> I feel the same way. I quit smoking once for a year. I actually won a
> $1000 bet because of it. Having 'cured' myself of my habit, I thought I
> could have one once in a while. I smoked for many more years before I
> was finally able to kick the habit. For good I hope. I will not touch
> another cigarette. Or cigar. Or pipe. Etc.
>
> I'm hoping I don't have to learn the same lesson with alcohol...
>
> > I can not stop wondering why family, who have probably written a drunk
> > person of in disgust, can have alcohol in front of that person.
>
> I actually find I feel more comfortable if people behave normally around
> me. I don't mean to hang out with my buddies at the bar, but I'd rather
> my family enjoy their wine with dinner. If they don't, it makes me feel
> awkward.
>
> > Mias - 14 years clean and sober and enjoying every second!
>
> Ron - almost 2 months sober, and pretending he knows what he's talking
> about!
>
> --
> AB5DB9CC

[Ron]

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:27:34 +1000,
Robert McGregor <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> "Ron" <can@the.spam> wrote in message
> news:Kd1Qb.104212$5V2.409298@attbi_s53...
>> On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:15:27 +1000,
>> Robert McGregor <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> > Contextually more correctly, Alcoholics Anonymous specifies the "real
>> > alcoholic" category.
>>
>> Ahh, yes, the estimable 'real alcoholic'. All others are pretenders to
>> the throne.
>
> Nothing quite like the irony of ungrateful pretenders.

It's unreal.

--
AB5DB9CC

[Robert McGregor]

"Ron" <can@the.spam> wrote in message
news:W12Qb.130118$na.200041@attbi_s04...
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:27:34 +1000,
> Robert McGregor <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> > "Ron" <can@the.spam> wrote in message
> > news:Kd1Qb.104212$5V2.409298@attbi_s53...
> >> On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:15:27 +1000,
> >> Robert McGregor <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Contextually more correctly, Alcoholics Anonymous specifies the "real
> >> > alcoholic" category.
> >>
> >> Ahh, yes, the estimable 'real alcoholic'. All others are pretenders to
> >> the throne.
> >
> > Nothing quite like the irony of ungrateful pretenders.
>
> It's unreal.
>

It's as ironic as it is real.

Bob

[Fred Exley]

<snip>
I definitely do not want to return there and thus avoid food cooked with
wine, after shave, x-mass pudding etc. because I simply do not want to take
the least chance that I might relapse because of such an indulgence.
<end snip>

And by the way, vanilla extract is 35% alcohol. That's what they got into
when they were out of booze in the original version of 'Days of Wine and
Roses'. -Fred

[debs]

Thankfully.....I have recently given up smoking and cigarette smoke make me
feel sick. I cannot believe just how I could actually have smoked those
things.

debs


Cigarette smoke on the other hand
> makes me 'horny' for nicotine.
> The example I wished to make was that we are all 'addicted' to water but
do
> not have to have it at meals say. More from the family and friends
> perspective.
> Kind regards
> Mias
> "Ron" <can@the.spam> wrote in message
> news:Ux1Qb.127892$xy6.490041@attbi_s02...
> > On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 05:43:55 +0200, Mias <emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I definitely do not want to return there and thus avoid food cooked
with
> > > wine, after shave, x-mass pudding etc. because I simply do not want to
> take
> > > the least chance that I might relapse because of such an indulgence.
> >
> > I feel the same way. I quit smoking once for a year. I actually won a
> > $1000 bet because of it. Having 'cured' myself of my habit, I thought I
> > could have one once in a while. I smoked for many more years before I
> > was finally able to kick the habit. For good I hope. I will not touch
> > another cigarette. Or cigar. Or pipe. Etc.
> >
> > I'm hoping I don't have to learn the same lesson with alcohol...
> >
> > > I can not stop wondering why family, who have probably written a drunk
> > > person of in disgust, can have alcohol in front of that person.
> >
> > I actually find I feel more comfortable if people behave normally around
> > me. I don't mean to hang out with my buddies at the bar, but I'd rather
> > my family enjoy their wine with dinner. If they don't, it makes me feel
> > awkward.
> >
> > > Mias - 14 years clean and sober and enjoying every second!
> >
> > Ron - almost 2 months sober, and pretending he knows what he's talking
> > about!
> >
> > --
> > AB5DB9CC
>
>

[debs]

I think the sponsor was going along the addictive personality track here.
I think there is some credence to this as some one who has been addicted to
alcohol and smoking and has given up both I am willing to admit to some
dabbling with drugs years ago.......OK it was only canabis and it was only
now and again. I never got hooked but that doesn't stop me from condemming
it now simply because I suffer from a mental illness and have a slight nag
in my mind that canabis causes psychosis which may have triggered off my
illness of manic depression.

However I still think that the sponsor was out of order.......I would never
tolerate behavoir like that in my house.

debs


"Mias" <emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
news:40109e05.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
> Dear Gloria
> Sorry - I owe you an apology. I did not see that the original problem was
> heroin. It might still warrant you however to look at addiction as
substance
> abuse and not drug specific. IMHO many abusers shift between alcohol and
> drugs.
> Kind regards
> Mias
> "Mias" <emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
> news:40109d0a.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
> > Dear Gloria
> > Putten differently - is it not truly amazing that people who was willing
> to
> > do 'anything' so that a friend or family member will stop drinking,
those
> > same people who threw booze down the drain and removed hidden bottles
and
> > refused to give money for drink, must drink in front of that same person
> > saying, in effect, look how happy and friendly alcohol makes us.
> > That sponsor had a lot of guts and love for alcoholics. The proof lies
in
> > the fact that you posted on this group and got some responses. Perhaps
you
> > needed a wake up call so that you could ask the simple question.'If I am
> not
> > addicted to a substance why must I take it in a situation where it might
> > endanger someone elses health?
> > Alcohol is cunning, baffling etc.
> > Kind regards
> > Mias
> >
> >
>
>

[Mias]

Dear Debs
I have a rule of thumb for myself, never mind what mental illnesses I have,
as long as I stay away from addictive substances I have a chance, just for
today... Is life not wonderful now compared to before?
Kind regards
Mias
"debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:buqu94$r3b$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> I think the sponsor was going along the addictive personality track here.
> I think there is some credence to this as some one who has been addicted
to
> alcohol and smoking and has given up both I am willing to admit to some
> dabbling with drugs years ago.......OK it was only canabis and it was only
> now and again. I never got hooked but that doesn't stop me from
condemming
> it now simply because I suffer from a mental illness and have a slight nag
> in my mind that canabis causes psychosis which may have triggered off my
> illness of manic depression.
>
> However I still think that the sponsor was out of order.......I would
never
> tolerate behavoir like that in my house.
>
> debs
>
>
> "Mias" <emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
> news:40109e05.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
> > Dear Gloria
> > Sorry - I owe you an apology. I did not see that the original problem
was
> > heroin. It might still warrant you however to look at addiction as
> substance
> > abuse and not drug specific. IMHO many abusers shift between alcohol and
> > drugs.
> > Kind regards
> > Mias
> > "Mias" <emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
> > news:40109d0a.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
> > > Dear Gloria
> > > Putten differently - is it not truly amazing that people who was
willing
> > to
> > > do 'anything' so that a friend or family member will stop drinking,
> those
> > > same people who threw booze down the drain and removed hidden bottles
> and
> > > refused to give money for drink, must drink in front of that same
person
> > > saying, in effect, look how happy and friendly alcohol makes us.
> > > That sponsor had a lot of guts and love for alcoholics. The proof lies
> in
> > > the fact that you posted on this group and got some responses. Perhaps
> you
> > > needed a wake up call so that you could ask the simple question.'If I
am
> > not
> > > addicted to a substance why must I take it in a situation where it
might
> > > endanger someone elses health?
> > > Alcohol is cunning, baffling etc.
> > > Kind regards
> > > Mias
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Eric Waller]

I hear a lot of people at meetings talk about using a substance that eventually led them back to their "drug of choice." A lot of people get caught up in what is their drug of choice, when the truth is that any drug abused feeds our compulsion. I personally have a compulsion for anyone or anything that makes me feel good. Drugs, alcohol, sex, attention, success, etc. I know that I am a real alcoholic. I abstain from substances that alter my mind, because I fear that being out of my sober mind leads me to make choices that are unhealthy. These unhealthy choices could lead me back to the first drink which is the beginning of the end for me. I can only comment on what works for me, but my experience watching others who are attempting to remain sober tells me that those that avoid any mind altering substance stay sober longer. These are real people at real meetings saying real things about real sobriety. Using substances that alter my mind blocks me from the power of God. The power of God as we understood him, is what grants me a daily reprieve from a drink.

"Mias" <emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message news:40109e05.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
> Dear Gloria
> Sorry - I owe you an apology. I did not see that the original problem was
> heroin. It might still warrant you however to look at addiction as substance
> abuse and not drug specific. IMHO many abusers shift between alcohol and
> drugs.
> Kind regards
> Mias
> "Mias" <emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
> news:40109d0a.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
> > Dear Gloria
> > Putten differently - is it not truly amazing that people who was willing
> to
> > do 'anything' so that a friend or family member will stop drinking, those
> > same people who threw booze down the drain and removed hidden bottles and
> > refused to give money for drink, must drink in front of that same person
> > saying, in effect, look how happy and friendly alcohol makes us.
> > That sponsor had a lot of guts and love for alcoholics. The proof lies in
> > the fact that you posted on this group and got some responses. Perhaps you
> > needed a wake up call so that you could ask the simple question.'If I am
> not
> > addicted to a substance why must I take it in a situation where it might
> > endanger someone elses health?
> > Alcohol is cunning, baffling etc.
> > Kind regards
> > Mias
> >
> >
>
>

[Blue Moon]

I would fire the sponsor immediately. The sponsor clearly had a big
problem with wine being served at a table, and tried to make it
everyone else's problem.

What fellowship are you talking about? Can't be AA if she had a
heroin problem and not alcohol. Many addicts are unable to handle any
kind of drug, and that includes alcohol. But that doesn't mean this
applies to all addicts, although there is a potential predisposition
to addiction to any chemical substance. But if your sister clearly
has no alcohol problem, she clearly has no alcohol problem.

--
Blue Moon

[rbh martin]

eric said:

>I abstain from substances that alter my mind, because I fear that being
>out of my sober mind leads me to make choices that are unhealthy.

and

>those that avoid any mind altering substance stay sober longer.

and

>Using substances that alter my mind blocks me from the power of God.

does that include coffee?

kip

[Blue Moon]

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 05:32:26 +0200, "Mias"
<emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote:

>Dear Gloria
>Let us create a different scenario.
>Say your husband has been unfaithful on numerous occasions.
>He goes to see a psychologist and joins a group to enable him to come of his
>sexual addiction.
>The psychologist suggests that seeing that he is now 'recovered' he must try
>sleeping naked with an 18 year old blond babe but not have sex. This will
>prove he is now recoverd and make him 'stronger'.
>You might think the psychologist is a total idiot perhaps?

Mias,

You are making a huge leap of non-logic that the person in question is
alcoholic, or even ever abused alcohol. The original post directly
contradicts this presumption.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On 23 Jan 2004 00:49:39 GMT, ctbean3@aol.com (Christine) wrote:

>>Your rude guest's behaviour makes me raise an eyebrow, however,
>>because she's implying that if you're addicted to one thing, you have a
>>problem with the other.
>
>There is a lot of that in AA I have found ... there are some people who
>believe that one shouldn't use Listerine or NyQuil or a presribed pain med for
>a purpose. I disagree. I have taken NyQuil once since I've been sober and it
>was becuase I was sick, not because I just wanted to fall asleep. I didn't
>feel the need to change my sobriety date, talk to my sponsor about it, or
>"confess" it at a meeting.

But you felt the need to mention it here? As such, it's in your mind.

Given that there are plenty of remedies that do not contain alcohol,
yet which work just as effectively for the symptoms they're designed
to treat, I'm curious why you chose the one product that you knew
contained alcohol.

I do not anticipate ever getting drunk on NyQuil. I never did. Nor
on Listerine, rubbing alcohol, cooked alcohol, chocolates, or anything
else. But I can see how motives should be questioned, and if I've not
been sober long enough, or haven't worked the program (in its entirety
- being at my first Step 4, for example, was not past tense for
"worked the program"), those motives WILL be questionable. Why?
Because one restful night on NyQuil can (not necessarily will, but
certainly can) lead the *thinking* back to the idea of controlled
drinking. Not necessarily today, but perhaps in times of poor sleep.

--
Blue Moon

[Eric Waller]

No, I drink coffee.
But you may be on to something.

"rbh martin" <starrett@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:fLyQb.4165$KU5.648@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> eric said:
>
> >I abstain from substances that alter my mind, because I fear that being
> >out of my sober mind leads me to make choices that are unhealthy.
>
> and
>
> >those that avoid any mind altering substance stay sober longer.
>
> and
>
> >Using substances that alter my mind blocks me from the power of God.
>
> does that include coffee?
>
> kip
>
>

[Julie LaRue]

Like she hasnt already done this! There is no easier softer drug or drink
for an addict. She just isnt being honest with herself.

"Mias" <emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
news:40109e05.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
> Dear Gloria
> Sorry - I owe you an apology. I did not see that the original problem was
> heroin. It might still warrant you however to look at addiction as
substance
> abuse and not drug specific. IMHO many abusers shift between alcohol and
> drugs.
> Kind regards
> Mias
> "Mias" <emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
> news:40109d0a.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
> > Dear Gloria
> > Putten differently - is it not truly amazing that people who was willing
> to
> > do 'anything' so that a friend or family member will stop drinking,
those
> > same people who threw booze down the drain and removed hidden bottles
and
> > refused to give money for drink, must drink in front of that same person
> > saying, in effect, look how happy and friendly alcohol makes us.
> > That sponsor had a lot of guts and love for alcoholics. The proof lies
in
> > the fact that you posted on this group and got some responses. Perhaps
you
> > needed a wake up call so that you could ask the simple question.'If I am
> not
> > addicted to a substance why must I take it in a situation where it might
> > endanger someone elses health?
> > Alcohol is cunning, baffling etc.
> > Kind regards
> > Mias
> >
> >
>
>

[Blue Moon]

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 03:04:22 GMT, "Julie LaRue"
<Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Like she hasnt already done this! There is no easier softer drug or drink
>for an addict. She just isnt being honest with herself.

How on earth do you reach that conclusion?

What about tobacco, coffee or chocolate? How many in NA consume these
drugs, yet claim they're clean and even claim there's no "easier
softer drug"? The actions which belie the words of any such
individual are far more dishonest than someone who offers no
indication of any problem. Why invent a problem if it really doesn't
exist? If there really was a problem with honesty, I'd have expected
the individual to have hidden the drinking, particularly from a member
of an addiction recovery fellowship.

The reactions of the fellow member indicate a person who is clearly in
no fit condition to be sponsoring anyone, and could even bring that
fellowship into some disrepute.

>"Mias" <emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
>news:40109e05.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
>> Dear Gloria
>> Sorry - I owe you an apology. I did not see that the original problem was
>> heroin. It might still warrant you however to look at addiction as
>substance
>> abuse and not drug specific. IMHO many abusers shift between alcohol and
>> drugs.

--
Blue Moon

[Cheggers]

"debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<buqtdl$ren$1@titan.btinternet.com>...
> Thankfully.....I have recently given up smoking and cigarette smoke make me
> feel sick. I cannot believe just how I could actually have smoked those
> things.
>
> debs

Debs, just dropping in to say good job on the cigs. Big fat 'well
done' to you!

Wanted to offer you this, FWIW: I struggled for a while after quitting
with how to get other folks' smoke out of my face. I found this worked
the best... I turned to the smoker with a warm smile and said
something like: "Man, that cigarette smoke smells so good it's driving
me crazy. I just quit a few days ago for probably the twentieth time
and I wonder if we could just put a little distance between me & the
smoke. Otherwise, I'm gonna end up bumming cigarettes off you til you
end up giving me a black eye!"

Not foolproof, but the empathy worked more often than not. Addicts
like to help other addicts I guess.

Strength to ya, girl! Great work.

G'luck.

- Cheggers.

[Gloria Trillo]

I just returned from a holiday in Venice and thought I might come here
to see if there were any responses that I might have missed. Lo and
behold I see this rediculous analogy. My sister never abused alcohol
in her entire life. From a very young age we have always had wine
with dinner. I thing this is a matter of differences in cultures.
Americans make a big deal of wine, while my culture looks at it as
though it were as benign as some cola. It never been a big thing, My
dad has always made his own wine and we drink it in very small amounts
as not to become intoxicated but rather to enhance a nice meal.
Americans veiw wine drinkers as some gutter bum guzzling down bottles
of cheap wine out of a brown paper bag. This is not the case here.
This was simply something that is common practice in any of my failies
households.. We do not drink wine with intentions of becomming drunk.
For crying out loud I cannot imagine drinking enough of my dads
homemade wine to become drunk. I wouldn't even consider trying it
because it would probably make me sick. Just a glass at dinner is all
that I would drink. None of my family has had any desire to do
anythink but drink it at dinnertime. Think of it this way, would
nyone consider drinking n entire 2 liter bottle of Coke at one
sitting? I don't think that would be to pleasant and I would think one
would become quite ill. As far as bringing my question to this news
group I though addiction/alcoholism would cover any queries in this
area. I do not appreciate the sarcasm. I thank any and all of you
for your responses anyway.

Gloria Trillo





On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:26:58 GMT, Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 05:32:26 +0200, "Mias"
><emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote:
>
>>Dear Gloria
>>Let us create a different scenario.
>>Say your husband has been unfaithful on numerous occasions.
>>He goes to see a psychologist and joins a group to enable him to come of his
>>sexual addiction.
>>The psychologist suggests that seeing that he is now 'recovered' he must try
>>sleeping naked with an 18 year old blond babe but not have sex. This will
>>prove he is now recoverd and make him 'stronger'.
>>You might think the psychologist is a total idiot perhaps?
>
>Mias,
>
>You are making a huge leap of non-logic that the person in question is
>alcoholic, or even ever abused alcohol. The original post directly
>contradicts this presumption.
>
>--
>Blue Moon

[Gail]

"Gloria Trillo" <GloriaTrillo@Stugot.com> wrote in message
news:af292139b04e7ebac247d58f5a7c7b4e@news.teranew s.com...
> I just returned from a holiday in Venice and thought I might come here
> to see if there were any responses that I might have missed. Lo and
> behold I see this rediculous analogy. My sister never abused alcohol
> in her entire life. From a very young age we have always had wine
> with dinner. I thing this is a matter of differences in cultures.
> Americans make a big deal of wine, while my culture looks at it as
> though it were as benign as some cola. It never been a big thing, My
> dad has always made his own wine and we drink it in very small amounts
> as not to become intoxicated but rather to enhance a nice meal.
> Americans veiw wine drinkers as some gutter bum guzzling down bottles
> of cheap wine out of a brown paper bag.

LOL! Having guzzled down bottles of wine in my drinking days and not being a
gutter bum I would have to disagree with you. How do you know what Americans
think?

This is not the case here.
> This was simply something that is common practice in any of my failies
> households.. We do not drink wine with intentions of becomming drunk.

I am glad that YOUR family does not have a problem. How can you speak for
the other families in your region? I have no idea how many families are
affected by alcohol in America. It would be stupid of me to speak for them
and say they don't drink to get drunk. I would have to say that you and your
family is rare in not having at least one alcoholic in the family.


> For crying out loud I cannot imagine drinking enough of my dads
> homemade wine to become drunk.

I can, but then I am a alcoholic.

I wouldn't even consider trying it
> because it would probably make me sick.

It sure does!

Just a glass at dinner is all
> that I would drink. None of my family has had any desire to do
> anythink but drink it at dinnertime. Think of it this way, would
> nyone consider drinking n entire 2 liter bottle of Coke at one
> sitting?

If Coke did for an alcoholic what alcohol does, yes. But it doesn't. Again,
I am glad that you and your family have no experience with alcoholism.


I don't think that would be to pleasant and I would think one
> would become quite ill.

You would think that I would not have continued to drink alcohol for so many
years after the numerous times of puking my guts out. It is called
alcoholism.

As far as bringing my question to this news
> group I though addiction/alcoholism would cover any queries in this
> area. I do not appreciate the sarcasm.

At one time I would have drank over something like this..;) Best to you and
your family from this American.


I thank any and all of you
> for your responses anyway.
>
> Gloria Trillo
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:26:58 GMT, Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 05:32:26 +0200, "Mias"
> ><emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote:
> >
> >>Dear Gloria
> >>Let us create a different scenario.
> >>Say your husband has been unfaithful on numerous occasions.
> >>He goes to see a psychologist and joins a group to enable him to come of
his
> >>sexual addiction.
> >>The psychologist suggests that seeing that he is now 'recovered' he must
try
> >>sleeping naked with an 18 year old blond babe but not have sex. This
will
> >>prove he is now recoverd and make him 'stronger'.
> >>You might think the psychologist is a total idiot perhaps?
> >
> >Mias,
> >
> >You are making a huge leap of non-logic that the person in question is
> >alcoholic, or even ever abused alcohol. The original post directly
> >contradicts this presumption.
> >
> >--
> >Blue Moon
>

[Blue Moon]

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:25:45 GMT, GloriaTrillo@Stugot.com (Gloria
Trillo) wrote:

>Think of it this way, would
>nyone consider drinking n entire 2 liter bottle of Coke at one
>sitting?

Well, yep! And not just in theory either. When I first quit
drinking, I drank gallons of almost anything non-alcoholic. But I
don't expect you to understand, there's a certain insanity that
accompanies this condition which you've obviously not encountered. I
hope you never do.

> I don't think that would be to pleasant and I would think one
>would become quite ill.

Apart from alcohol, the only drink that made me ill was "dandelion and
burdock". However, unlike alcohol, one session at the porcelain
throne was enough to convince me never to touch "D&B" again.

> As far as bringing my question to this news
>group I though addiction/alcoholism would cover any queries in this
>area. I do not appreciate the sarcasm. I thank any and all of you
>for your responses anyway.

If you bring a question about alcohol to a bunch of alcoholics, most
will respond from their own perspectives based on their own
experiences, rather than consider the possibility that your case might
genuinely be a different scenario. Part of this comes from the
astonishing denial we do see on a regular basis from those dying of
active alcoholism yet claiming not to have a problem.

--
Blue Moon