AVRT: Yes or No

[crayzKirk]

What do you all think of the Rational Recovery idea?

What do you all think of the Disease idea?

Kirk S

[Robert McGregor]

"crayzKirk" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:pIMPb.49043$LW.17572@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> What do you all think of the Rational Recovery idea?
>
> What do you all think of the Disease idea?
>
> Kirk S
>

I think the moderation management idea is better.

http://www.moderation.org/whatisMM.html

If moderation is proven impractical, I think the superior option is total
abstinence from alcohol, instead of fartarsing around with ideas.

Bob

[Julie LaRue]

What do you all think of the Rational Recovery idea?
Rational.......you think its rational to buy their books and waste your time
going to Rational Recovery meetings?.....you don't need any kind of recovery
if you can CONTROL your drinking. No problem drinking = no drinking
problem.

What do you all think of the Disease idea?
Ok, don't think of it as a disease......think if it as a genetic birth
defect that creates a compulsion to consume mind altering drugs (alcohol is
a DRUG) ....if you don't believe this just don't drink ANY alcohol and
explain why you have to fight a compulsion to drink alcohol? And just how
manageable your life is.
People without this genetic defect can drink alcohol and NOT have any desire
or compulsion to deal with when they stop drinking. Is this you?? I
really dought it or you wouldnt bother joining this newsgroup..



"crayzKirk" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:pIMPb.49043$LW.17572@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...

>
> Kirk S
>
>

[Julie LaRue]

The only moderation is the number of lies you have to tell yourself so you
can continue to drink.
Why would anyone need to cut back, only drink beer or wine, or moderate
their drinking IF they didnt have a problem with alcohol??

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:buo74n$f531o$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "crayzKirk" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:pIMPb.49043$LW.17572@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > What do you all think of the Rational Recovery idea?
> >
> > What do you all think of the Disease idea?
> >
> > Kirk S
> >
>
> I think the moderation management idea is better.
>
> http://www.moderation.org/whatisMM.html
>
> If moderation is proven impractical, I think the superior option is total
> abstinence from alcohol, instead of fartarsing around with ideas.
>
> Bob
>
>

[Blue Moon]

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 02:53:46 GMT, "Julie LaRue"
<Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote:

>What do you all think of the Rational Recovery idea?
>Rational.......you think its rational to buy their books and waste your time
>going to Rational Recovery meetings?

Do they have RR meetings?

As for buying the book, what's irrational about that?

No, what I have found irrational is the behaviour of some of RR's most
active proponents, such as their "AA is a cult" cult.

But as an active member of AA, I have to say that AA is also far from
perfect .... again typically as a result of the actions of some of its
most ardent supporters.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 03:08:48 GMT, "Julie LaRue"
<Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote:

>The only moderation is the number of lies you have to tell yourself so you
>can continue to drink.
>Why would anyone need to cut back, only drink beer or wine, or moderate
>their drinking IF they didnt have a problem with alcohol??

Er.... someone who does not have the physical allergy to alcohol, and
is thus able to moderate but just hasn't learned how to?

AA's own book refers to such people, on pages 20-21: "Then we have a
certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough to
gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die
a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason - ill
health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a
doctor - becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate,
although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need
medical attention."

I agree it's arguably like a game of Russian roulette. But so is
"just don't drink and go to meetings". Neither is an assurance of
success with anything. I knew that MM was no option for me, just like
I knew that meetings alone would not be sufficient for me to maintain
sobriety. MM probably has plenty of people who should quit but don't
want to, but it may have plenty who had no need to quit.

Maintaining an open mind about such things enables one to reduce
"contempt prior to investigation".

--
Blue Moon

[Robert McGregor]

"Julie LaRue" <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4rGQb.23699$i4.11481@newsread1.news.atl.earth link.net...
> The only moderation is the number of lies you have to tell yourself so you
> can continue to drink.




Best you speak for yourself, without gratuitously projecting such absurdity
onto others.

You have to tell yourself a number of lies? Are you an NA recruiter?

Bob



> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:buo74n$f531o$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "crayzKirk" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:pIMPb.49043$LW.17572@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > What do you all think of the Rational Recovery idea?
> > >
> > > What do you all think of the Disease idea?
> > >
> > > Kirk S
> > >
> >
> > I think the moderation management idea is better.
> >
> > http://www.moderation.org/whatisMM.html
> >
> > If moderation is proven impractical, I think the superior option is
total
> > abstinence from alcohol, instead of fartarsing around with ideas.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
>

[Ron]

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 03:08:48 GMT, Julie LaRue <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Why would anyone need to cut back, only drink beer or wine, or moderate
> their drinking IF they didnt have a problem with alcohol??

Does 'having a problem with alcohol' = 'alcoholic'?

--
AB5DB9CC

[Blue Moon]

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 05:01:36 GMT, Ron <can@the.spam> wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 03:08:48 GMT, Julie LaRue <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Why would anyone need to cut back, only drink beer or wine, or moderate
>> their drinking IF they didnt have a problem with alcohol??
>
>Does 'having a problem with alcohol' = 'alcoholic'?

If so, then the person who had a problem with a sponsor shouting
his/her mouth off despite being a guest at someone else's dinner table
must be a "sponsorholic".

--
Blue Moon

[Kirk S]

"Julie LaRue" <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:_cGQb.23680$i4.23532@newsread1.news.atl.earth link.net...
> What do you all think of the Rational Recovery idea?
> Rational.......you think its rational to buy their books and waste your
time
> going to Rational Recovery meetings?.....you don't need any kind of
recovery
> if you can CONTROL your drinking. No problem drinking = no drinking
> problem.

Control is the key word, in my opinion. At least for me, I drank because I
felt MORE in control when I drank. Or more directly, LESS afraid.
>
> What do you all think of the Disease idea?
> Ok, don't think of it as a disease......think if it as a genetic birth
> defect that creates a compulsion to consume mind altering drugs (alcohol
is
> a DRUG) ....if you don't believe this just don't drink ANY alcohol and
> explain why you have to fight a compulsion to drink alcohol? And just how
> manageable your life is.
> People without this genetic defect can drink alcohol and NOT have any
desire
> or compulsion to deal with when they stop drinking. Is this you?? I
> really dought it or you wouldnt bother joining this newsgroup..

I believe that people are more alike than different. This does not mean
that I believe all people react to alcohol the same way. Some people can
have a few drinks and it makes them feel ill, others can drink a large
amount and just want more. I am an alcoholic, I drink for the high feeling
and I drink so I don't have to feel bad. That, to me, is my disease.
Wanting to escape problems and fears instead of solving and facing them.

AA did help me. It kept me out of the bars and old playgrounds. I use some
of the things I learned. When something bothers me, I name it, claim it and
dump it. I used to hang onto stuff and it would eat away at me. Just like
adding a bunch of small embers together, eventually it erupts into a flame.

Whatever works for us can't be all bad!

Kirk S.
>
>
>
> "crayzKirk" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:pIMPb.49043$LW.17572@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> >
> > Kirk S
> >
> >
>
>

[>rosie]

> AA did help me................ I use some
> of the things I learned. When something bothers me, "I name it,
claim it and
> dump it. "



oh kirk!
i haven't heard that one in a long time!
:)

[Kirk S]

" >rosie<" <readandpostTAKETHISOUT@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0FWQb.104825$VV4.7382@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > AA did help me................ I use some
> > of the things I learned. When something bothers me, "I name it,
> claim it and
> > dump it. "
>
>
>
> oh kirk!
> i haven't heard that one in a long time!
> :)
>
>
I'm dating myself. Hey, that sounds kinda weird, doesn't it? Never lose
your sense of humor and have faith in family and friends. The nice thing
about this group is that there is a wide variety of people with a wide
variety of experiences. Man, Woman, Black, White, Yellow, Green, etc.
doesn't matter.

We are all more alike than different... Stronger as a group that alone. If
anyone gets anything positive out of my ramblings, then today is a
success... I always get something positive from reading things people here
are brave enough to post. Even if I get flamed, it means that someone took
enough time to respond.

Kirk S.

<seven days... has it really been a week? time flies when you're having
fun!>

[>rosie]

> We are all more alike than different...

ABSOLUTELY!





>Stronger as a group that alone.

ALWAYS!





>If anyone gets anything positive out of my ramblings, then today is
a
> success...


today is a success because your around to celebrate it!
(the ramblings are secondary, but they are pretty good too!)

rosie

[Julie LaRue]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>Best you speak for yourself, without gratuitously projecting such absurdity
>onto others.
Yes, your right of course, but I thought you knew I am speaking from my
personal experience and what i have learned while working with others like
me. Anything less than abstinence from alcohol and drugs is like walking
through a mine field with a blindfold on. You might get lucky and not blow
yourself up, but this would be telling yourself one BIG frigging lie. Go
on, take a few steps you will be just fine.

>
You have to tell yourself a number of lies? Are you an NA recruiter?
I love this comment Robert. There is no such thing as a AA or NA recruiter.
I only share our experience, strength, and hope with others. If some
alcoholic or drug addict sees my comments as useless or "absurd" I give them
a local AA or NA hotline number and wish them well.

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:buvh7l$mab0e$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Julie LaRue" <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4rGQb.23699$i4.11481@newsread1.news.atl.earth link.net...
> > The only moderation is the number of lies you have to tell yourself so
you
> > can continue to drink.
>
>
>
>
> Best you speak for yourself, without gratuitously projecting such
absurdity
> onto others.
>
> You have to tell yourself a number of lies? Are you an NA recruiter?
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> > "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:buo74n$f531o$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > "crayzKirk" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:pIMPb.49043$LW.17572@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > What do you all think of the Rational Recovery idea?
> > > >
> > > > What do you all think of the Disease idea?
> > > >
> > > > Kirk S
> > > >
> > >
> > > I think the moderation management idea is better.
> > >
> > > http://www.moderation.org/whatisMM.html
> > >
> > > If moderation is proven impractical, I think the superior option is
> total
> > > abstinence from alcohol, instead of fartarsing around with ideas.
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Julie LaRue]

And your comment is relevant to the question how???about??

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:12df9d351274ac8549cb623efa2a2c21@news.teranew s.com...
> On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 05:01:36 GMT, Ron <can@the.spam> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 03:08:48 GMT, Julie LaRue <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> >
> >> Why would anyone need to cut back, only drink beer or wine, or moderate
> >> their drinking IF they didnt have a problem with alcohol??
> >
> >Does 'having a problem with alcohol' = 'alcoholic'?
>
> If so, then the person who had a problem with a sponsor shouting
> his/her mouth off despite being a guest at someone else's dinner table
> must be a "sponsorholic".
>
> --
> Blue Moon

[Robert McGregor]

"Julie LaRue" <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:A%bRb.26395$i4.25538@newsread1.news.atl.earth link.net...
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> >Best you speak for yourself, without gratuitously projecting such
absurdity
> >onto others.
> Yes, your right of course, but I thought you knew I am speaking from my
> personal experience

How on earth am I supposed to know that? Seems to me you didn't think, at
all.

>and what i have learned while working with others like
> me.

Given your apparant history of confused identity, it's strange you have not
learned that many others are not at all like you.

>Anything less than abstinence from alcohol and drugs is like walking
> through a mine field with a blindfold on. You might get lucky and not
blow
> yourself up, but this would be telling yourself one BIG frigging lie. Go
> on, take a few steps you will be just fine.
>
> >
> You have to tell yourself a number of lies? Are you an NA recruiter?
> I love this comment Robert. There is no such thing as a AA or NA
recruiter.

"no such thing" ? That claim is as absurd as arfers next door @
alt.recovery.from-12-steps proclaiming there is no such thing as an
alcoholic.

> I only share our experience, strength, and hope with others.

Unable, like our rosie, to differentiate between experience and opinion, are
you also dependant on happy pills?

>If some
> alcoholic or drug addict sees my comments as useless or "absurd" I give
them
> a local AA or NA hotline number

What for if not recruitment, prank phone calls?

>and wish them well.

"May they live in interesting times"?

Bob







>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:buvh7l$mab0e$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Julie LaRue" <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:4rGQb.23699$i4.11481@newsread1.news.atl.earth link.net...
> > > The only moderation is the number of lies you have to tell yourself so
> you
> > > can continue to drink.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Best you speak for yourself, without gratuitously projecting such
> absurdity
> > onto others.
> >
> > You have to tell yourself a number of lies? Are you an NA recruiter?
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> > > "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> > > news:buo74n$f531o$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > >
> > > > "crayzKirk" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:pIMPb.49043$LW.17572@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > > What do you all think of the Rational Recovery idea?
> > > > >
> > > > > What do you all think of the Disease idea?
> > > > >
> > > > > Kirk S
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think the moderation management idea is better.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.moderation.org/whatisMM.html
> > > >
> > > > If moderation is proven impractical, I think the superior option is
> > total
> > > > abstinence from alcohol, instead of fartarsing around with ideas.
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Julie LaRue]

It has been nice talking to to Robert. If you ever need some help go to
http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/ or just look in your phone directory
under Alcoholics Anonymous to find someone local to you. If you live in
North Carolina or can get to Raleigh, NC I can also recommmend a place
called "The Healing Place" http://www.hpowc.org/new/ . They are privately
supported and run a free long term recovery program.
I wish you well my friend.

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bv3q12$mreqo$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Julie LaRue" <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:A%bRb.26395$i4.25538@newsread1.news.atl.earth link.net...
> >
> > "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> > >Best you speak for yourself, without gratuitously projecting such
> absurdity
> > >onto others.
> > Yes, your right of course, but I thought you knew I am speaking from my
> > personal experience
>
> How on earth am I supposed to know that? Seems to me you didn't think, at
> all.
>
> >and what i have learned while working with others like
> > me.
>
> Given your apparant history of confused identity, it's strange you have
not
> learned that many others are not at all like you.
>
> >Anything less than abstinence from alcohol and drugs is like walking
> > through a mine field with a blindfold on. You might get lucky and not
> blow
> > yourself up, but this would be telling yourself one BIG frigging lie.
Go
> > on, take a few steps you will be just fine.
> >
> > >
> > You have to tell yourself a number of lies? Are you an NA recruiter?
> > I love this comment Robert. There is no such thing as a AA or NA
> recruiter.
>
> "no such thing" ? That claim is as absurd as arfers next door @
> alt.recovery.from-12-steps proclaiming there is no such thing as an
> alcoholic.
>
> > I only share our experience, strength, and hope with others.
>
> Unable, like our rosie, to differentiate between experience and opinion,
are
> you also dependant on happy pills?
>
> >If some
> > alcoholic or drug addict sees my comments as useless or "absurd" I give
> them
> > a local AA or NA hotline number
>
> What for if not recruitment, prank phone calls?
>
> >and wish them well.
>
> "May they live in interesting times"?
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:buvh7l$mab0e$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > "Julie LaRue" <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:4rGQb.23699$i4.11481@newsread1.news.atl.earth link.net...
> > > > The only moderation is the number of lies you have to tell yourself
so
> > you
> > > > can continue to drink.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best you speak for yourself, without gratuitously projecting such
> > absurdity
> > > onto others.
> > >
> > > You have to tell yourself a number of lies? Are you an NA recruiter?
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> > > > news:buo74n$f531o$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > >
> > > > > "crayzKirk" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:pIMPb.49043$LW.17572@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > > > What do you all think of the Rational Recovery idea?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What do you all think of the Disease idea?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kirk S
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I think the moderation management idea is better.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.moderation.org/whatisMM.html
> > > > >
> > > > > If moderation is proven impractical, I think the superior option
is
> > > total
> > > > > abstinence from alcohol, instead of fartarsing around with ideas.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[>rosie]

"Julie LaRue" <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zheRb.26541$i4.6648@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> It has been nice talking to to Robert. If you ever need some help
go to
> http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/ or just look in your phone
directory
> under Alcoholics Anonymous to find someone local to you. If you
live in
> North Carolina or can get to Raleigh, NC I can also recommmend a
place
> called "The Healing Place" http://www.hpowc.org/new/ . They are
privately
> supported and run a free long term recovery program.
> I wish you well my friend.
>


i have enjoyed your posts here julie and i hope you will continue to
post, share and ignore our resident troll!

[Blue Moon]

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:22:41 GMT, " >rosie<"
<readandpostTAKETHISOUT@hotmail.com> wrote:

>i have enjoyed your posts here julie and i hope you will continue to
>post, share and ignore our resident troll!

You're suggesting she ignore you?

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:23:56 GMT, "Julie LaRue"
<Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote:

>And your comment is relevant to the question how???about??

My comment highlights the fact that one notion would be as silly as
the other. Alanon is full of people who have a problem with alcohol,
yet some of them never drink. Alcoholism is not "a problem with
alcohol". If anything, it's "a problem without alcohol". If alcohol
was the alcoholic's problem, quitting drinking would be the ONLY thing
necessary for an alcoholic to do. No meetings, no support group, no
Steps, just quitting drinking, perhaps with a little medical help for
detox if it's physically that bad. No, there is a significant
psychological difference between "alcohol abuse" and "alcohol
dependency", or "alcoholism".

Perhaps if more people in AA would realise this, there'd be less
propensity to diagnose almost every teenager on the planet as being
"alcoholic".

>"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:12df9d351274ac8549cb623efa2a2c21@news.teranew s.com...
>> On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 05:01:36 GMT, Ron <can@the.spam> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 03:08:48 GMT, Julie LaRue <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>> >
>> >> Why would anyone need to cut back, only drink beer or wine, or moderate
>> >> their drinking IF they didnt have a problem with alcohol??
>> >
>> >Does 'having a problem with alcohol' = 'alcoholic'?
>>
>> If so, then the person who had a problem with a sponsor shouting
>> his/her mouth off despite being a guest at someone else's dinner table
>> must be a "sponsorholic".
>>
>> --
>> Blue Moon
>

--
Blue Moon

[Robert McGregor]

" >rosietroll<" <readandpostisatroll2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5jhRb.72323$LW.71860@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
>
> "Julie LaRue" <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:zheRb.26541$i4.6648@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> > It has been nice talking to to Robert. If you ever need some help
> go to
> > http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/ or just look in your phone
> directory
> > under Alcoholics Anonymous to find someone local to you. If you
> live in
> > North Carolina or can get to Raleigh, NC I can also recommmend a
> place
> > called "The Healing Place" http://www.hpowc.org/new/ . They are
> privately
> > supported and run a free long term recovery program.
> > I wish you well my friend.
> >
>
>
> i have enjoyed your posts here julie and i hope you will continue to
> post, share and ignore our resident troll!
>
LOL, notice you didn't wave yer (((((((( )))))))))) dildo at yer "sister"
julie. That would have been ironic, cos in traditional AA style, it seems
"she's" a bloke too, just like Bill Wilson!

http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_104.htm
"As wives of Alcoholics Anonymous, we would like you to feel that we
understand as perhaps few can. "

Bob, in trolling mode;-)

[>rosie]

BM,
even robert knows he's a troll................get with it, will ya?

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often
groans
more loudly than an empty stomach.
...............................Franklin Delano Roosevelt

http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/










"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9a2d0a4303f4e771112ae75527024d2a@news.teranew s.com...
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:22:41 GMT, " >rosie<"
> <readandpostTAKETHISOUT@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >i have enjoyed your posts here julie and i hope you will continue
to
> >post, share and ignore our resident troll!
>
> You're suggesting she ignore you?
>
> --
> Blue Moon

[Robert McGregor]

" >rosie<" <readandpostTAKETHISOUT@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:H_hRb.115177$fq1.76899@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> BM,
> even robert knows he's a troll................get with it, will ya?
>
> --
> read and post daily, it works!
> rosie
>


rosie is apparantly so drug dependant she don't realise she is the most
frequent troller here.

Bob


>
> "Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9a2d0a4303f4e771112ae75527024d2a@news.teranew s.com...
> > On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:22:41 GMT, " >rosie<"
> > <readandpostTAKETHISOUT@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >i have enjoyed your posts here julie and i hope you will continue
> to
> > >post, share and ignore our resident troll!
> >
> > You're suggesting she ignore you?
> >
> > --
> > Blue Moon
>
>

[Julie LaRue]

Not to fear Blue..........the world is full of wonderful people and I have
never avoided a meeting or any other form of recovery because someone was
difficult. The comments of our disagreeable friend falls under the "take
what you want and leave the rest" column of life for me.

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9a2d0a4303f4e771112ae75527024d2a@news.teranew s.com...
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:22:41 GMT, " >rosie<"
> <readandpostTAKETHISOUT@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >i have enjoyed your posts here julie and i hope you will continue to
> >post, share and ignore our resident troll!
>
> You're suggesting she ignore you?
>
> --
> Blue Moon

[Julie LaRue]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6ad897df5e066bf2c727c401d195494d@news.teranew s.com...
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:23:56 GMT, "Julie LaRue"
> <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >And your comment is relevant to the question how???about??
>
> My comment highlights the fact that one notion would be as silly as
> the other. Alanon is full of people who have a problem with alcohol,
> yet some of them never drink. Alcoholism is not "a problem with
> alcohol". If anything, it's "a problem without alcohol". If alcohol
> was the alcoholic's problem, quitting drinking would be the ONLY thing
> necessary for an alcoholic to do. No meetings, no support group, no
> Steps, just quitting drinking, perhaps with a little medical help for
> detox if it's physically that bad. No, there is a significant
> psychological difference between "alcohol abuse" and "alcohol
> dependency", or "alcoholism".

Thats better, i see your point, but change can not begin if someone is
unwilling or still drinking.
Hey, do you not realize that you perfectly discribed the ever tightning
downward sprial of alcoholism?
Abuse, then dependency, and finally onto full blown alcoholism.
The path is slow at first as it moves from the occational party and then on
to entire weekends. Drunken weekends then move on to include a few weekly
workday trips to drink while we watch sports, dance, or catch local bands in
a sports bar or to dance at bars (or often just drink and puke) and
eventually onto a life where we do "nothing" unless we can drink while we do
it. Unmanageablity can come at any of these points for an alcholic and when
this happens we will go to any length to continue to drink or get sober.


> Perhaps if more people in AA would realise this, there'd be less
> propensity to diagnose almost every teenager on the planet as being
> "alcoholic".
I hate such brawd labels, BUT if a teenager is having a problem with
drinking (not going to school, failing grades, drunken driving ticktets,
etc) then they need help and the only way an insurance compnay will pay for
professional assistance is by having a diagnoseance of some kind.


a2c21@news.teranews.com...
> >> On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 05:01:36 GMT, Ron <can@the.spam> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 03:08:48 GMT, Julie LaRue <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com>
> >wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Why would anyone need to cut back, only drink beer or wine, or
moderate
> >> >> their drinking IF they didnt have a problem with alcohol??
> >> >
> >> >Does 'having a problem with alcohol' = 'alcoholic'?
> >>
> >> If so, then the person who had a problem with a sponsor shouting
> >> his/her mouth off despite being a guest at someone else's dinner table
> >> must be a "sponsorholic".
> >>
> >> --
> >> Blue Moon
> >
>
> --
> Blue Moon

[Robert McGregor]

"Julie LaRue" <Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:GfjRb.26882$i4.17023@newsread1.news.atl.earth link.net...
>
> I hate such brawd labels, BUT if a teenager is having a problem with
> drinking (not going to school, failing grades, drunken driving ticktets,
> etc) then they need help and the only way an insurance compnay will pay
for
> professional assistance is by having a diagnoseance of some kind.
>


http://www.moderation.org/

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:09:11 GMT, " >rosie<"
<readandpostTAKETHISOUT@hotmail.com> wrote:

>BM,
>even robert knows he's a troll................get with it, will ya?

He does? When did he say that?

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:35:34 GMT, "Julie LaRue"
<Sissi_Julie@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Thats better, i see your point, but change can not begin if someone is
>unwilling or still drinking.

Change cannot begin if someone is unwilling. For an alcoholic, the
first change they must be willing to do is to quit drinking. If
they're not willing to do that, they're not willing to do anything
else. But we should not make a presumption here that the alcoholic is
capable of actually performing the act of quitting drinking, as that
would be to imply consistent choice over alcohol.

"The alcoholic, at certain times, has no effective mental defence
against the first drink".

>Abuse, then dependency, and finally onto full blown alcoholism.

Is there a difference between "dependency" and "full blown
alcoholism"?

But I agree, it typically starts out with abuse. I have a theory that
if anyone abuses booze frequently enough and for long enough then
they'll develop dependency.

>Unmanageablity can come at any of these points for an alcholic and when
>this happens we will go to any length to continue to drink or get sober.

Get a dog drunk and he'll be unmanageable whilst drunk. "Our lives
had become unmanageable" makes no mention of alcohol - it is really
talking about life when sober. If I could have stayed sober without
my life becoming unmanageable to the extent that it got worse sober
than when drinking, I'd have had no need for anything to do with AA
(fellowship, Steps, whatever).

--
Blue Moon