and now for something completely stupid

[Ron]

I don't even know why I'm throwing this out there. I know what people
are going to say. Or think. I know what you think. But here's
nothing.

Last summer, I planted grape vines. No, not jelly grapes. I have
aspirations to become a vintner.

It will take anther four years before I may be able to harvest pressable
grapes.

I've been wanting to do this for a very long time. I've really been
looking forward to it. And no, it's not just about drinking it
(although enjoying the fruit of my labor was of course one of my
original goals).

I have not decided to give up my ambition. Why am I flagrently
flaunting my stupidity? Dunno.

--
AB5DB9CC

[Bobby L.]

"Ron" <can@the.spam> wrote in message
news:YboPb.94908$5V2.298815@attbi_s53...
> I don't even know why I'm throwing this out there. I know what people
> are going to say. Or think. I know what you think. But here's
> nothing.
>
> Last summer, I planted grape vines. No, not jelly grapes. I have
> aspirations to become a vintner.
>
> It will take anther four years before I may be able to harvest pressable
> grapes.
>
> I've been wanting to do this for a very long time. I've really been
> looking forward to it. And no, it's not just about drinking it
> (although enjoying the fruit of my labor was of course one of my
> original goals).
>
> I have not decided to give up my ambition. Why am I flagrently
> flaunting my stupidity? Dunno.
>
> --
> AB5DB9CC


Well, you know, you can eat grapes too.

[Blue Moon]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 05:34:48 GMT, Ron <can@the.spam> wrote:

>I have not decided to give up my ambition. Why am I flagrently
>flaunting my stupidity? Dunno.

I am reminded of 1 landlord in recovery. He seems to do quite well
because he doesn't drink all the profits.

You can sell the stuff, just don't produce it for you.

You could also produce grapes and grape juice, which could be for you.

--
Blue Moon

[Ron]

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:13:34 GMT, Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 05:34:48 GMT, Ron <can@the.spam> wrote:
>
>>I have not decided to give up my ambition. Why am I flagrently
>>flaunting my stupidity? Dunno.
>
> I am reminded of 1 landlord in recovery. He seems to do quite well
> because he doesn't drink all the profits.
>
> You can sell the stuff, just don't produce it for you.
>
> You could also produce grapes and grape juice, which could be for you.

You know an alcoholic who's a vintner? And it works? I feel like
that's dancing with the devil. I know I have a big problem, but I have
really wanted to do this for a very long time, and I finally can. I
mean to make oak barrels from logs I cut, quarter, froe, and plane by
hand. And so forth.

But a whole barrel of *good* wine in the basement ... that I nurtured
for years ... obsessed and toiled over ... yikes. That's a big barrel
of temptation.

I have a lot of time to stew about this I guess. Maybe I could moderate
my drinking. I really doubt it, though. I hate drinking in moderation.
That's not why I drink. I like being drunk. But say maybe I could
moderate my drinking - maybe I'm not a 'real' alcoholic. Problem is, I
have too much at stake to find out.

I'm pissed at myself for realizing (or at least being reasonably sure)
I'm an alcoholic, because there's only one thing for it, and I want a
drink. Ha, there's a dilemma: how can you be absolutely certain you are
an alcoholic? You can't find out by quitting. If you can stop, then
hey, maybe you're not an alcoholic! The only way to be sure is to keep
drinking, and see what happens. Boy am I full of shit sometimes.

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had
become unmanageable.

Notice step one doesn't say 'we were powerless to stop drinking'.
I.E. - if you can stop, you haven't proven you're not an alcoholic. I
keep telling myself "Hey, you didn't drink for quite a while. You just
had a little scare there. Have a drink." I have little internal
arguments with myself - like the old cartoons with the devil in one ear,
and an angel in the other.

I'm not really doing so great at this. I'm still hung up on step one.
The only thing I've managed to do is not drink. That's something, a big
thing, but it's really not enough.

If you happen to notice a certain incoherence to my rambling, that's
because there's not a lot of consistency to the way I'm feeling about
all of this right now. So I fart it all out to this NG to see if I
might get some external feedback to help snap me back into thinking
straight. Being 'honest', which I'm trying to do, doesn't mean I won't
contradict myself, you see...

Anyway, two months sober tomorrow. I keep comparing this process to
quitting smoking. Here's a difference. Quitting smoking gets easier
over time. There are still times for a while when the urge to smoke
will strike, but those urges become fewer and far between. I've been
wanting a drink more lately than when I first quit. Does this let up?
I feel like a rat in a cage.

See the little black cloud over my head? It follows me around too much.
I went to a meeting the other day, and was about to tell the first
person I ran into about how I had to drive around with garbage cans full
of dirty diapers all day, because when I went to the dump before work,
they were closed. Before I opened my mouth, though, this guy (who later
in the meeting announced he was celebrating his nine year anniversary
free of booze, heroin, /and/ cigarettes!) said to me (maybe he saw the
glower in my eyes) "So - tell me something good that happened to you
today." I immediately realized his insight, and swallowed a little
bile.

On that note, my three year old girl had her birthday party today! Her
friends and some family came over. Cake, ice cream, fun activities for
the kids. She had a blast. So did I. It was a good day. (So why do I
sit here and stew in my juices?)

I'm going to go eat a whole bunch of leftover cake and ice cream!

--
AB5DB9CC

[Blue Moon]

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:36:34 GMT, Ron <can@the.spam> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:13:34 GMT, Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 05:34:48 GMT, Ron <can@the.spam> wrote:
>>
>>>I have not decided to give up my ambition. Why am I flagrently
>>>flaunting my stupidity? Dunno.
>>
>> I am reminded of 1 landlord in recovery. He seems to do quite well
>> because he doesn't drink all the profits.
>>
>> You can sell the stuff, just don't produce it for you.
>>
>> You could also produce grapes and grape juice, which could be for you.
>
>You know an alcoholic who's a vintner? And it works? I feel like
>that's dancing with the devil. I know I have a big problem, but I have
>really wanted to do this for a very long time, and I finally can. I
>mean to make oak barrels from logs I cut, quarter, froe, and plane by
>hand. And so forth.

The difference is that this guy has been sober a long time, has
recovered from the alcoholic condition, so has no problem with it.
Doesn't even question it - it's just a job. Rather like a forecourt
attendant doesn't feel any need to be drinking the petrol (gasoline).

If I were in your position, I would be inclined to decide to put the
idea on ice for a few months. Say 3 or 6 months. Then focus on
recovery. That way your head will have the chance to sort itself out,
and you'll be in a better position to make decisions about these
things.

>I have a lot of time to stew about this I guess. Maybe I could moderate
>my drinking. I really doubt it, though. I hate drinking in moderation.
>That's not why I drink. I like being drunk. But say maybe I could
>moderate my drinking - maybe I'm not a 'real' alcoholic. Problem is, I
>have too much at stake to find out.

Assuming, for a moment, that you have the alcoholic allergy to
alcohol, would you accept that you would be insane to drink?

Assuming, for a moment, that you are not alcoholic, would you accept
that there is no plausible reason to drink?

Either way, what possible reason is there to drink?

And, if you realise that there is no point to drinking, the ongoing
mental obsession for booze despite this reality is defined as
"alcoholism". That obsession is what really sets an alcoholic apart
from those who can just quit and leave the stuff alone.

>I'm pissed at myself for realizing (or at least being reasonably sure)
>I'm an alcoholic, because there's only one thing for it, and I want a
>drink. Ha, there's a dilemma: how can you be absolutely certain you are
>an alcoholic? You can't find out by quitting.

But you can. In fact, I would argue that it's impossible to really
know until after detox. Before then, the individual is simply someone
who abused alcohol, not necessarily an alcoholic. But such a person
wouldn't waste much time wondering about it, he'd simply get on with
the business of living.

>1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had
> become unmanageable.
>
>Notice step one doesn't say 'we were powerless to stop drinking'.

Indeed. Drunk or sober, most alcoholics have stopped drinking.
Stopping drinking isn't the problem. Staying stopped is the problem.

>I've been wanting a drink more lately than when I first quit. Does this
>let up? I feel like a rat in a cage.

It let up for me when I had worked the rest of the Steps. Step 10
offers a strong promise that is not often referred to in meetings. It
says "...by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be
interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot
flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has
happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward
liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It
just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither
are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a
position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn
off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us.
We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. That
is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition."

To achieve this promise requires consistency of effort with the first
10 Steps.

>On that note, my three year old girl had her birthday party today! Her
>friends and some family came over. Cake, ice cream, fun activities for
>the kids. She had a blast. So did I. It was a good day. (So why do I
>sit here and stew in my juices?)

Maybe because you're an alcoholic struggling with Step 1, thus feeling
the obsession for a drink despite knowing the potential consequences.
To ensure an escape that mentality (insanity), seek within you the
willingness to work the rest of the Steps.

>I'm going to go eat a whole bunch of leftover cake and ice cream!

Sounds like a good plan :)

--
Blue Moon

[>rosie]

> Anyway, two months sober tomorrow. I keep comparing this process
to
> quitting smoking. Here's a difference. Quitting smoking gets
easier
> over time. There are still times for a while when the urge to
smoke
> will strike, but those urges become fewer and far between. I've
been
> wanting a drink more lately than when I first quit. Does this let
up?
> I feel like a rat in a cage.
> --


dear ron,
quitting drinking was the EASY part for
me.......................quitting THINKING about drinking, quitting
the SAME OLD behavior, changing my life around, now THAT was
tough....................

this is where a support group(AA) was the answer for me.

i learned how "to change those things" from other members in the
group, who understood EXACTLY how i felt!

in the meantime, cake and ice cream sound good!
:)

rosie