What a day

[JB]

Many of you know that my husband is severely disabled. Until today,
few of you have known that he and I know that he may one day want to
commit suicide. Some of you may think that's because of me (<g>).
The truth is, it's on account of his failing health.

All I want to tell you at this time is that I agree in principle to my
husband taking his life should *he* decide that it is no longer of a
quality that he can bear . However, the thought that he might one day
do so, occasionally greatly upsets me.

For now, my husband assures me that he has no intention of killing
himself just yet. He wants to complete our tax returns, buy a new
computer and get use from it (<g>)

FWIW, the friend who is going to supply my husband with the tablets
he needs to kill himself, visited us today and the three of us
discussed the matter at length. Our discussion left me feeling
emotionally drained, tearful and exhausted. This afternoon, I had no
energy to do anything and I crashed out on the sofa. It was the right
thing for me to do. My dreams helped me realise that it was not
sensible for me to fret about an event that may never come to pass.

So guys, at this time, I am happy to tell you that my mind is quieter
than it was earlier today and that I'm remembering to try to think
only about today
Best regards

JB

[JB]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:hAOyb.10951$5d.3523@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bqgb09$3uo$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Many of you know that my husband is severely disabled. Until
today,
> > few of you have known that he and I know that he may one day want
to
> > commit suicide. Some of you may think that's because of me (<g>).
> > The truth is, it's on account of his failing health.
<snip>
> > So guys, at this time, I am happy to tell you that my mind is
quieter
> > than it was earlier today and that I'm remembering to try to think
> > only about today
> > Best regards
> >
> > JB
> >
>
> Ouch.
>
> ((((((((((((((((((JB))))))))))))))))))))
>
Thanks Moonraker,

FWIW, we've lived with this for some time and it was yet another
excuse I used in order to justify my drinking. For a brief time today,
I thought about drinking on it again How I reacted again proves to
me that I continue to make progress in recovery.

Best regards

JB

[Moonraker]

"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bqgb09$3uo$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Many of you know that my husband is severely disabled. Until today,
> few of you have known that he and I know that he may one day want to
> commit suicide. Some of you may think that's because of me (<g>).
> The truth is, it's on account of his failing health.
>
> All I want to tell you at this time is that I agree in principle to my
> husband taking his life should *he* decide that it is no longer of a
> quality that he can bear . However, the thought that he might one day
> do so, occasionally greatly upsets me.
>
> For now, my husband assures me that he has no intention of killing
> himself just yet. He wants to complete our tax returns, buy a new
> computer and get use from it (<g>)
>
> FWIW, the friend who is going to supply my husband with the tablets
> he needs to kill himself, visited us today and the three of us
> discussed the matter at length. Our discussion left me feeling
> emotionally drained, tearful and exhausted. This afternoon, I had no
> energy to do anything and I crashed out on the sofa. It was the right
> thing for me to do. My dreams helped me realise that it was not
> sensible for me to fret about an event that may never come to pass.
>
> So guys, at this time, I am happy to tell you that my mind is quieter
> than it was earlier today and that I'm remembering to try to think
> only about today
> Best regards
>
> JB
>
>

Ouch.

((((((((((((((((((JB))))))))))))))))))))

[The Other Harry]

[On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:04:12 -0000, "JB"
<JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:]

> Many of you know that my husband is severely disabled. Until today,
> few of you have known that he and I know that he may one day want to
> commit suicide. Some of you may think that's because of me (<g>).
> The truth is, it's on account of his failing health.

<big snip>

Maybe you aren't as full of it as I thought you were.

I have many thoughts on your post.

One is that going to the local park has been a major help to
me. It is no big deal in one way. It's easy. I just take my
dog there for a walk.

But I see ducks, geese, the river, sunsets, and other things.
I never go there without seeing something that lifts my
spirits.

I don't know what options you have in this regard, but they
might be worth reviewing. Whatever makes him feel better.

For me, staying in the house all day is very bad.

[Blue Moon]

On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:04:12 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

>For now, my husband assures me that he has no intention of killing
>himself just yet. He wants to complete our tax returns, buy a new
>computer and get use from it (<g>)

So he doesn't actually want to die right now, he has things he wants
to do first?

>FWIW, the friend who is going to supply my husband with the tablets
>he needs to kill himself, visited us today and the three of us
>discussed the matter at length.

If hubby has no intention of doing anything, I'm curious why you had
the discussion.

>Our discussion left me feeling emotionally drained, tearful and exhausted.
>This afternoon, I had no energy to do anything and I crashed out on the
>sofa. It was the right thing for me to do. My dreams helped me realise
>that it was not sensible for me to fret about an event that may never
>come to pass.

Is Euthanasia legal in your country? If not, I would suggest seeking
legal advice before anyone does anything. I wouldn't rely solely on
what hubby or his friend tell you, this is potentially your own
physical freedom you're talking about here. Hubby will emotionally
want you to agree to it, and you may have no real idea what the
friend's motives are. This doesn't sound like a case of a doctor
giving his patient "more morphine for pain relief but where death is a
side-effect", which is the legal loophole doctors use in the UK.

I know, keep it in the day! Just some things to bear in mind. Also,
has this been discussed with his doctor?

--
Blue Moon

[George &The Dragon]

When I was much, much younger than I am now, I used to think that the world
was a simple place. That everything was black and white, good and evil,
right and wrong. How wrong I was.

The ethical decisions you and your family face must feel overwhelming. You
have to trust that when and if the time comes, you will all make the
decision that is right for you. When that happens there will be lots of
people here who are thinking about you. As they are now.

All the best
George

[JB]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:okdnsvgi4mmhvv8dlurfevhu1ripjtpq2v@4ax.com...
> [On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:04:12 -0000, "JB"
> <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:]
>
> > Many of you know that my husband is severely disabled. Until
today,
> > few of you have known that he and I know that he may one day want
to
> > commit suicide. Some of you may think that's because of me (<g>).
> > The truth is, it's on account of his failing health.
>
> <big snip>
>
> Maybe you aren't as full of it as I thought you were.
>
> I have many thoughts on your post.
>
> One is that going to the local park has been a major help to
> me. It is no big deal in one way. It's easy. I just take my
> dog there for a walk.
>
> But I see ducks, geese, the river, sunsets, and other things.
> I never go there without seeing something that lifts my
> spirits.
>
> I don't know what options you have in this regard, but they
> might be worth reviewing. Whatever makes him feel better.
>
> For me, staying in the house all day is very bad.

Hi Harry,

I appreciate your post.

FWIW, what helps me most is AA's Serenity Prayer which I have accepted
in both my head and heart and say whenever I need to, and my belief in
my own HP to whom I talk when I need to. I also talk about my
troubles at AA meetings and with a couple of close friends when I need
to (which isn't often), have laughs with them and others, spend time
working on my own recovery and do other things that I know will
benefit me. I know that because of all that I have done these past
almost six months I find it somewhat easier to deal with some of what
is currently going on in my life.
,
It makes me happy to know that you are continuing to try to overcome
all that troubles you.

I continue to wish you well.

Best regards

JB

[Robert McGregor]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:422c936d342dd83e02103f323ef31f87@news.teranew s.com...
> On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:04:12 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:
>
> >For now, my husband assures me that he has no intention of killing
> >himself just yet. He wants to complete our tax returns, buy a new
> >computer and get use from it (<g>)
>
> So he doesn't actually want to die right now, he has things he wants
> to do first?
>
> >FWIW, the friend who is going to supply my husband with the tablets
> >he needs to kill himself, visited us today and the three of us
> >discussed the matter at length.
>
> If hubby has no intention of doing anything, I'm curious why you had
> the discussion.
>
> >Our discussion left me feeling emotionally drained, tearful and
exhausted.
> >This afternoon, I had no energy to do anything and I crashed out on the
> >sofa. It was the right thing for me to do. My dreams helped me realise
> >that it was not sensible for me to fret about an event that may never
> >come to pass.
>
> Is Euthanasia legal in your country? If not, I would suggest seeking
> legal advice before anyone does anything. I wouldn't rely solely on
> what hubby or his friend tell you, this is potentially your own
> physical freedom you're talking about here. Hubby will emotionally
> want you to agree to it, and you may have no real idea what the
> friend's motives are. This doesn't sound like a case of a doctor
> giving his patient "more morphine for pain relief but where death is a
> side-effect", which is the legal loophole doctors use in the UK.
>
> I know, keep it in the day! Just some things to bear in mind. Also,
> has this been discussed with his doctor?
>
> --
> Blue Moon

One of my more profound regrets is that I had neither sufficient love, nor
enough fortitude, to surreptitiously help Matt, an AA old-timer. I don't
particularly regret ignoring a nurses request to give the poor old bloke
some alcohol. Rather, he was trapped in a useless body, with an active mind
imprisoned behind a virtually mute tongue, unable even to write.

Sadly, I had neither the inclination, nor patience, to verify his
communication that his real plea was for assistance from the only source
available to him, to help with his demise. It took him about two years of
terrible suffering, to die.

Gutless Bob

[JB]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:422c936d342dd83e02103f323ef31f87@news.teranew s.com...
> On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:04:12 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:
>
> >For now, my husband assures me that he has no intention of
killing
> >himself just yet. He wants to complete our tax returns, buy a new
> >computer and get use from it (<g>)
>
> So he doesn't actually want to die right now, he has things he wants
> to do first?

Yes and I'm already thinking what I can suggest to him he might like
to do subsequently :^))

> >FWIW, the friend who is going to supply my husband with the
tablets
> >he needs to kill himself, visited us today and the three of us
> >discussed the matter at length.
>
> If hubby has no intention of doing anything, I'm curious why you had
> the discussion.

It's not the first time. My husband is 72, he's confined to a
wheelchair (thanks to polio, he's a tetraplegic), he's in failing
health and he's getting physically weaker I'm not going to give full
details of what he cannot now do for himself. I'll tell you that it's
now a struggle for him to eat (risk of choking); he needs to be helped
at times to get food into his mouth and frequently needs help to lift
a cup to his lips and he struggles for breath if not on assisted
breathing apparatus 24 hours a day. His knowledge of how dependent on
me and on his machinery in order to survive and his increasing
frailty cause him to great frustration, anger and sadness.

FWIW, for more than forty years my husband had a prominent role in
one area of public life. He remains highly regarded by those who know
what he has achieved. Among those who have respect from him are
members of former British governments.

My husband is a proud man whose first wife (who died years ago) and
then me, enabled him to control his own life so that he could earn a
living and in his spare time, help countless disabled people living in
the UK . These days, he has very few opportunities and little energy
to
do what it was that made his life so important and so valuable to him
for decades.

FWIW my husband has great dignity and he wishes to die while retaining
that dignity. I hope that happens. I wish it could happen to all who
become old for example.
>
> >Our discussion left me feeling emotionally drained, tearful and
exhausted.
> >This afternoon, I had no energy to do anything and I crashed out on
the
> >sofa. It was the right thing for me to do. My dreams helped me
realise
> >that it was not sensible for me to fret about an event that may
never
> >come to pass.
>
> Is Euthanasia legal in your country? If not, I would suggest
seeking
> legal advice before anyone does anything. I wouldn't rely solely on
> what hubby or his friend tell you, this is potentially your own
> physical freedom you're talking about here. Hubby will emotionally
> want you to agree to it, and you may have no real idea what the
> friend's motives are. This doesn't sound like a case of a doctor
> giving his patient "more morphine for pain relief but where death is
a
> side-effect", which is the legal loophole doctors use in the UK.
>
> I know, keep it in the day! Just some things to bear in mind.
Also,
> has this been discussed with his doctor?
>
>Blue Moon

Yes. He knows the situation and is not opposed to euthanasia in the
*right* circumstances. I think it unlikely that we are the only
family on his books with whom he has had such a discussion.

I also know my husband's friend well enough to know that he is acting
compassionately. Their friendship has lasted over 50 years.

Hope this helps

Yours

JB

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <bqgb09$3uo$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
writes
>Many of you know that my husband is severely disabled. Until today,
>few of you have known that he and I know that he may one day want to
>commit suicide. Some of you may think that's because of me (<g>).
>The truth is, it's on account of his failing health.
>
>All I want to tell you at this time is that I agree in principle to my
>husband taking his life should *he* decide that it is no longer of a
>quality that he can bear . However, the thought that he might one day
>do so, occasionally greatly upsets me.
>
>For now, my husband assures me that he has no intention of killing
>himself just yet. He wants to complete our tax returns, buy a new
>computer and get use from it (<g>)
>
>FWIW, the friend who is going to supply my husband with the tablets
>he needs to kill himself, visited us today and the three of us
>discussed the matter at length. Our discussion left me feeling
>emotionally drained, tearful and exhausted. This afternoon, I had no
>energy to do anything and I crashed out on the sofa. It was the right
>thing for me to do. My dreams helped me realise that it was not
>sensible for me to fret about an event that may never come to pass.
>
>So guys, at this time, I am happy to tell you that my mind is quieter
>than it was earlier today and that I'm remembering to try to think
>only about today
>Best regards

Quite momentous decisions. I am sure that between you, you will make the
right ones. I am also sure everyone on this ng will be thinking of, and
hoping for, you both.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[JB]

"George &The Dragon" <george@dragon.ca> wrote in message
news:iXPyb.4414$zf2.565010@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> When I was much, much younger than I am now, I used to think that
the world
> was a simple place. That everything was black and white, good and
evil,
> right and wrong. How wrong I was.
>
> The ethical decisions you and your family face must feel
overwhelming. You
> have to trust that when and if the time comes, you will all make the
> decision that is right for you. When that happens there will be lots
of
> people here who are thinking about you. As they are now.
>
> All the best
> George

Thank you George.

Best regards

JB

[JB]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:KF0hwcXk69y$EwE9@aol.com...
> In message <bqgb09$3uo$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB
<JBCatRB@coldman.com>
> writes
> >Many of you know that my husband is severely disabled.

<snip>
> >So guys, at this time, I am happy to tell you that my mind is
quieter
> >than it was earlier today and that I'm remembering to try to think
> >only about today
> >Best regards
>
> Quite momentous decisions. I am sure that between you, you will make
the
> right ones. I am also sure everyone on this ng will be thinking of,
and
> hoping for, you both.
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

Thank you Johnathan.

JB.

[The Other Harry]

[On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:14:19 -0500, "George &The Dragon"
<george@dragon.ca> wrote:]

> The ethical decisions you and your family face must feel overwhelming. You
> have to trust that when and if the time comes, you will all make the
> decision that is right for you. When that happens there will be lots of
> people here who are thinking about you. As they are now.

Well...

One thing to think about here is that euthanasia or suicide or
whatever you want to call it, doing that transfers an enormous
burden on those who survive your death.

This comes home to me with respect to Terri Shiavo (sp?), the
woman in Florida.

I do think she should be allowed to die naturally, but I don't
see how anyone could remove her feeding tube. I could not. I
could never live with myself again if I did that.

Apply that to myself, including to my drinking.