View Full Version : Hello "guys and gals"
Hi you all. I just wanted to drop a couple of lines and tell you all that I
am sincerely sorry for all the posts I have made in the past couple of
years, down-grading any of you or arguing about things I had no knowledge of
or about.
Blue, I am really sorry for what I said to you, and Mouse, I owe you an
apology, too.
I have been in a mental ward for two weeks. God, do I have a story to tell,
now. Will tell you guys and gals all about it when I am recovered some what
more than I am now..;)
I am doing good, just not 100% yet.
I love you all and have missed you, even though we have never met.
Take care and Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.
Gail
The Other Harry
11-26-2003, 01:55 AM
[On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 00:27:23 -0600, "Gail" <gailathome@remove
thischarter.net> wrote:]
> I am doing good, just not 100% yet.
I don't know that we get to 100%. 80 would be nice. I'd take
60.
How'd you get into the mental ward? My experience is that they
don't just say hello and check you in. I had to do some things
to get into the county detox program.
And what the f' did they do with you in the mental ward?
The only things I can see are talk, med's, and detox. Put you
on a schedule and a diet.
I don't know that psych problems ever get fixed. I don't think
they do. They are there for the duration. It is learning to
how live with them.
"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:9qi8svkkceo3t0g075i8t76i30uhfum6a3@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 00:27:23 -0600, "Gail" <gailathome@remove
> thischarter.net> wrote:]
>
> > I am doing good, just not 100% yet.
>
> I don't know that we get to 100%. 80 would be nice. I'd take
> 60.
>
That is good to know.
> How'd you get into the mental ward? My experience is that they
> don't just say hello and check you in. I had to do some things
> to get into the county detox program.
And believe me, I did some things.
>
> And what the f' did they do with you in the mental ward?
Believe me, if I didn't do my fourth step there, I nver will. I am anxious
to ask this local woman to be my sponsor, though.
>
> The only things I can see are talk, med's, and detox. Put you
> on a schedule and a diet.
That helped me, too. ;)
>
> I don't know that psych problems ever get fixed. I don't think
> they do. They are there for the duration. It is learning to
> how live with them.
Am definitely finding that out at the age of 51. Better late than never,
wouldn't you agree?
Jonathan Bratt
11-26-2003, 03:58 AM
In message <vs8hug2fthv3d9@corp.supernews.com>, Gail
<gailathome@remove.thischarter.net.invalid> writes
>Hi you all. I just wanted to drop a couple of lines and tell you all that I
>am sincerely sorry for all the posts I have made in the past couple of
>years, down-grading any of you or arguing about things I had no knowledge of
>or about.
>Blue, I am really sorry for what I said to you, and Mouse, I owe you an
>apology, too.
>I have been in a mental ward for two weeks. God, do I have a story to tell,
>now. Will tell you guys and gals all about it when I am recovered some what
>more than I am now..;)
>I am doing good, just not 100% yet.
>I love you all and have missed you, even though we have never met.
>Take care and Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.
Wow - sounds like you have been through the mill. Glad you're back with
us and the best of British for continuing health and progress.
Jonathan
xx
--
Jonathan Bratt
J. Rockford
11-26-2003, 07:29 AM
In article <vs8hug2fthv3d9@corp.supernews.com>, Gail
<gailathome@remove> wrote:
> Hi you all. I just wanted to drop a couple of lines and tell you all that I
> am sincerely sorry for all the posts I have made in the past couple of
> years, down-grading any of you or arguing about things I had no knowledge of
> or about.
> Blue, I am really sorry for what I said to you, and Mouse, I owe you an
> apology, too.
> I have been in a mental ward for two weeks. God, do I have a story to tell,
> now. Will tell you guys and gals all about it when I am recovered some what
> more than I am now..;)
> I am doing good, just not 100% yet.
> I love you all and have missed you, even though we have never met.
> Take care and Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.
>
> Gail
Gail,
Hope you get better soon. You'll have to go get ya a good
Thanksgiving dinner after they release you from the hospital, I've had
the meals at these places-not like mama fixed.
Have a good day, Mike
rosie read and post
11-26-2003, 08:06 AM
(((((((((((((((((((gail)))))))))))))))))))
your in my thoughts and prayers....................
hope you are feeling much better
I am just outta hospital myself.......not too much of a tale though just a
few days of rest.
(((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
debs
--
Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her own.
"Gail" <gailathome@remove thischarter.net> wrote in message
news:vs8hug2fthv3d9@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi you all. I just wanted to drop a couple of lines and tell you all that
I
> am sincerely sorry for all the posts I have made in the past couple of
> years, down-grading any of you or arguing about things I had no knowledge
of
> or about.
> Blue, I am really sorry for what I said to you, and Mouse, I owe you an
> apology, too.
> I have been in a mental ward for two weeks. God, do I have a story to
tell,
> now. Will tell you guys and gals all about it when I am recovered some
what
> more than I am now..;)
> I am doing good, just not 100% yet.
> I love you all and have missed you, even though we have never met.
> Take care and Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.
>
> Gail
>
>
rosie read and post
11-26-2003, 09:53 AM
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((deb)))))))))))))))))))) ))))))))))))
--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie
to avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing.
........................elbert hubbard
"debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bq2cjd$8k0$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> hope you are feeling much better
>
> I am just outta hospital myself.......not too much of a tale
though just a
> few days of rest.
>
> (((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
>
> debs
>
> --
> Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy
on her own.
>
>
> "Gail" <gailathome@remove thischarter.net> wrote in message
> news:vs8hug2fthv3d9@corp.supernews.com...
> > Hi you all. I just wanted to drop a couple of lines and tell you
all that
> I
> > am sincerely sorry for all the posts I have made in the past
couple of
> > years, down-grading any of you or arguing about things I had no
knowledge
> of
> > or about.
> > Blue, I am really sorry for what I said to you, and Mouse, I owe
you an
> > apology, too.
> > I have been in a mental ward for two weeks. God, do I have a
story to
> tell,
> > now. Will tell you guys and gals all about it when I am
recovered some
> what
> > more than I am now..;)
> > I am doing good, just not 100% yet.
> > I love you all and have missed you, even though we have never
met.
> > Take care and Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.
> >
> > Gail
> >
> >
>
>
"J. Rockford" <mikedawn@flash.net> wrote in message
news:261120030629535685%mikedawn@flash.net...
> In article <vs8hug2fthv3d9@corp.supernews.com>, Gail
> <gailathome@remove> wrote:
>
> > Hi you all. I just wanted to drop a couple of lines and tell you all
that I
> > am sincerely sorry for all the posts I have made in the past couple of
> > years, down-grading any of you or arguing about things I had no
knowledge of
> > or about.
> > Blue, I am really sorry for what I said to you, and Mouse, I owe you an
> > apology, too.
> > I have been in a mental ward for two weeks. God, do I have a story to
tell,
> > now. Will tell you guys and gals all about it when I am recovered some
what
> > more than I am now..;)
> > I am doing good, just not 100% yet.
> > I love you all and have missed you, even though we have never met.
> > Take care and Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.
> >
> > Gail
> Gail,
> Hope you get better soon. You'll have to go get ya a good
> Thanksgiving dinner after they release you from the hospital, I've had
> the meals at these places-not like mama fixed.
>
> Have a good day, Mike
Thanks Mike. I am out of the hospital and am cooking Thanksgiving dinner. I
feel a lot better today than yesterday. I have SO much to be thankful for
this year.
Best,
Gail
Blue Moon
11-26-2003, 05:15 PM
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 00:27:23 -0600, "Gail" <gailathome@remove
thischarter.net> wrote:
>Hi you all. I just wanted to drop a couple of lines and tell you all that I
>am sincerely sorry for all the posts I have made in the past couple of
>years, down-grading any of you or arguing about things I had no knowledge of
>or about.
>Blue, I am really sorry for what I said to you, and Mouse, I owe you an
>apology, too.
Sorry, I honestly have no clue what you're talking about. So apology
accepted :)
It seems the nature of amends that we think we owe them, and it turns
out we only needed to forgive ourselves. The amends I don't know I
owe could be a little more tricky ;)
>I have been in a mental ward for two weeks. God, do I have a story to tell,
>now. Will tell you guys and gals all about it when I am recovered some what
>more than I am now..;)
I had no clue things had become so bad, though I did see some warning
signs which I mentioned here. Obviously "stuff" has been going on in
life in your part of the world.
Best wishes,
--
Blue Moon
Robert McGregor
11-26-2003, 05:53 PM
"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9eb5a59c41ec4af1cdfe84156db1d2ae@news.teranew s.com...
>
> It seems the nature of amends that we think we owe them, and it turns
> out we only needed to forgive ourselves. The amends I don't know I
> owe could be a little more tricky ;)
>
Arguably, an integral component of the entire step process is to "untangle
crossed wires," between guilt and responsibility. A painful but necessary
discovery was that some of my attempted amends, certainly prior to
sequential step nine, occasionally even at/after step nine, proved
completely counter productive to cleaning my side of the street.
What I glean from your post is that in this instance, I am not unique;-)
Bob
Jonathan Bratt
11-26-2003, 06:03 PM
In message <9eb5a59c41ec4af1cdfe84156db1d2ae@news.teranews.com >, Blue
Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
>On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 00:27:23 -0600, "Gail" <gailathome@remove
>thischarter.net> wrote:
>
>I had no clue things had become so bad, though I did see some warning
>signs which I mentioned here. Obviously "stuff" has been going on in
>life in your part of the world.
I hat it - that 'stuff' thing. All would be well apart from 'stuff'. ;-)
--
Jonathan Bratt
Blue Moon
11-26-2003, 06:08 PM
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:53:00 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>Arguably, an integral component of the entire step process is to "untangle
>crossed wires," between guilt and responsibility. A painful but necessary
>discovery was that some of my attempted amends, certainly prior to
>sequential step nine, occasionally even at/after step nine, proved
>completely counter productive to cleaning my side of the street.
>
>What I glean from your post is that in this instance, I am not unique;-)
Definitely not! Upon arrival on the floor of sobriety, I thought Step
9 meant I had to "apologise" to everyone for everything I felt bad
about. My mind was unable to differentiate "make amends" from
"apologise", and "those we had harmed" from "those who had harmed us".
Hence I envisioned having to go apologise to my ex-mother-in-law for
bringing her a dish at precisely the time she'd asked for it, simply
because her own reaction to this incident is what even my befogged
alcoholic brain could only describe as insane.
So yes, I had resentments over things like that incident, so they
needed to be on my 4th Step. But a little principle offered in the
book around the 4th really helped me ... "We realized that the people
who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick. Though we did not like
their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves,
were sick too".
It doesn't matter whether ex-mil is sick, insane, both or neither. In
that moment of clarity I was able to both evict her from the rent-free
residency in my head, and cross her off my own mental 9th Step list.
Other times I have tried to make amends, and been disappointed at the
outcome. "Why is this person not delighted?" Hmm...maybe I can lose
sight of the principle behind "making amends" through my own
expectations.
Keeping my side of the street clean can be tricky when someone else's
crap on their side seems to spill over onto mine.
--
Blue Moon
George &The Dragon
11-26-2003, 06:32 PM
Gail,
Welcome back. I hope you have a great Thanksgiving.
Keep some turkey soup on the boil for next week. All the guys & gals from
ARAA will be over for lunch.
Aye,
George
& the Dragon
Thank you so much, Rosie.
"rosie read and post" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Sz1xb.67261$Vu6.64376@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> (((((((((((((((((((gail)))))))))))))))))))
> your in my thoughts and prayers....................
>
>
Thank you, Debs. Hope you are ok and nothing serious.
Gail
"debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bq2cjd$8k0$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> hope you are feeling much better
>
> I am just outta hospital myself.......not too much of a tale though just a
> few days of rest.
>
> (((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
>
> debs
>
> --
> Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her
own.
>
>
> "Gail" <gailathome@remove thischarter.net> wrote in message
> news:vs8hug2fthv3d9@corp.supernews.com...
> > Hi you all. I just wanted to drop a couple of lines and tell you all
that
> I
> > am sincerely sorry for all the posts I have made in the past couple of
> > years, down-grading any of you or arguing about things I had no
knowledge
> of
> > or about.
> > Blue, I am really sorry for what I said to you, and Mouse, I owe you an
> > apology, too.
> > I have been in a mental ward for two weeks. God, do I have a story to
> tell,
> > now. Will tell you guys and gals all about it when I am recovered some
> what
> > more than I am now..;)
> > I am doing good, just not 100% yet.
> > I love you all and have missed you, even though we have never met.
> > Take care and Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.
> >
> > Gail
> >
> >
>
>
"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9eb5a59c41ec4af1cdfe84156db1d2ae@news.teranew s.com...
> On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 00:27:23 -0600, "Gail" <gailathome@remove
> thischarter.net> wrote:
>
> >Hi you all. I just wanted to drop a couple of lines and tell you all that
I
> >am sincerely sorry for all the posts I have made in the past couple of
> >years, down-grading any of you or arguing about things I had no knowledge
of
> >or about.
> >Blue, I am really sorry for what I said to you, and Mouse, I owe you an
> >apology, too.
>
> Sorry, I honestly have no clue what you're talking about. So apology
> accepted :)
>
> It seems the nature of amends that we think we owe them, and it turns
> out we only needed to forgive ourselves. The amends I don't know I
> owe could be a little more tricky ;)
>
> >I have been in a mental ward for two weeks. God, do I have a story to
tell,
> >now. Will tell you guys and gals all about it when I am recovered some
what
> >more than I am now..;)
>
> I had no clue things had become so bad, though I did see some warning
> signs which I mentioned here. Obviously "stuff" has been going on in
> life in your part of the world.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> --
> Blue Moon
Thank you, Blue. Yeah, you could say things have been going on. I have been
deceitful and a liar for some time. I will tell you all about it when I have
time to write it. Just got the turkey and ham cooked and waiting for it to
cool so I can put in frig.
Take care,
Gail
"George &The Dragon" <george@dragon.ca> wrote in message
news:5Kaxb.14810$dt2.1093392@news20.bellglobal.com ...
> Gail,
>
> Welcome back. I hope you have a great Thanksgiving.
> Keep some turkey soup on the boil for next week. All the guys & gals from
> ARAA will be over for lunch.
>
> Aye,
> George
>
>
>
>
> & the Dragon
>
>
Thank you, George.
As a matter of fact, I have been cooking turkey chili, turkey lasagna,
turkey chops, turkey spaghetti sauce and turkey burgers. Damn, I can't tell
the difference between beef and turkey, when cooked. I know that is
healthier for us, too. I need to lose some weight. I have another turkey in
the freezer. So, I will try the soup. Sounds good!!!
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.
Gail
No. had some problems with stabilising my mood (bipolar). Things running
a bit too fast and I was losing a grip a bit. A few days out and a bit of
alteration of meds was all I needed. I went in voluntary and the length of
stay was negotiated with me. It is always much better that way than for
things to get out of control and for me to be dragged in kicking and
screaming.
I realised that I had been taking on too much and that I could not be super
hero or super mum all the time ;-) I am now taking a well deserved break
from study and am just doing some pottering around the house.
hope you are doing ok too
debs
--
Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her own.
"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vsasm5fje0uree@corp.supernews.com...
> Thank you, Debs. Hope you are ok and nothing serious.
>
> Gail
>
>
> "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bq2cjd$8k0$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > hope you are feeling much better
> >
> > I am just outta hospital myself.......not too much of a tale though just
a
> > few days of rest.
> >
> > (((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
> >
> > debs
> >
> > --
> > Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her
> own.
> >
> >
> > "Gail" <gailathome@remove thischarter.net> wrote in message
> > news:vs8hug2fthv3d9@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Hi you all. I just wanted to drop a couple of lines and tell you all
> that
> > I
> > > am sincerely sorry for all the posts I have made in the past couple of
> > > years, down-grading any of you or arguing about things I had no
> knowledge
> > of
> > > or about.
> > > Blue, I am really sorry for what I said to you, and Mouse, I owe you
an
> > > apology, too.
> > > I have been in a mental ward for two weeks. God, do I have a story to
> > tell,
> > > now. Will tell you guys and gals all about it when I am recovered some
> > what
> > > more than I am now..;)
> > > I am doing good, just not 100% yet.
> > > I love you all and have missed you, even though we have never met.
> > > Take care and Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.
> > >
> > > Gail
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Hi Debs. That is exactly what happened to me. I am not bi-polar, but I do
have a chemical imbalance and after abusing my hubbies meds, along with my
own, I was having psychotic episodes. I am thankful that I am alive today to
cook and take care of me, not everyone else. Took me a while to get that
one. ;>)
Best,
Gail
"debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bq4901$8l1$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> No. had some problems with stabilising my mood (bipolar). Things
running
> a bit too fast and I was losing a grip a bit. A few days out and a bit of
> alteration of meds was all I needed. I went in voluntary and the length
of
> stay was negotiated with me. It is always much better that way than for
> things to get out of control and for me to be dragged in kicking and
> screaming.
> I realised that I had been taking on too much and that I could not be
super
> hero or super mum all the time ;-) I am now taking a well deserved break
> from study and am just doing some pottering around the house.
>
> hope you are doing ok too
>
> debs
>
> --
> Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her
own.
>
>
> "Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:vsasm5fje0uree@corp.supernews.com...
> > Thank you, Debs. Hope you are ok and nothing serious.
> >
> > Gail
> >
> >
> > "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:bq2cjd$8k0$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > > hope you are feeling much better
> > >
> > > I am just outta hospital myself.......not too much of a tale though
just
> a
> > > few days of rest.
> > >
> > > (((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
> > >
> > > debs
> > >
> > > --
> > > Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on
her
> > own.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Gail" <gailathome@remove thischarter.net> wrote in message
> > > news:vs8hug2fthv3d9@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > Hi you all. I just wanted to drop a couple of lines and tell you all
> > that
> > > I
> > > > am sincerely sorry for all the posts I have made in the past couple
of
> > > > years, down-grading any of you or arguing about things I had no
> > knowledge
> > > of
> > > > or about.
> > > > Blue, I am really sorry for what I said to you, and Mouse, I owe you
> an
> > > > apology, too.
> > > > I have been in a mental ward for two weeks. God, do I have a story
to
> > > tell,
> > > > now. Will tell you guys and gals all about it when I am recovered
some
> > > what
> > > > more than I am now..;)
> > > > I am doing good, just not 100% yet.
> > > > I love you all and have missed you, even though we have never met.
> > > > Take care and Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.
> > > >
> > > > Gail
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Robert McGregor
11-27-2003, 09:57 AM
"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vsc37banf8g0a4@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi Debs. That is exactly what happened to me. I am not bi-polar, but I do
> have a chemical imbalance and after abusing my hubbies meds, along with my
> own, I was having psychotic episodes. I am thankful that I am alive today
to
> cook and take care of me, not everyone else. Took me a while to get that
> one. ;>)
> Best,
> Gail
hahahahaha, as if we have not seen this tangled thread before. Who measured
your chemicals, and who proved they were out of balance?
Bob
stuart
11-27-2003, 10:02 AM
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bq537g$1tgs5s$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:vsc37banf8g0a4@corp.supernews.com...
> > Hi Debs. That is exactly what happened to me. I am not bi-polar, but I
do
> > have a chemical imbalance and after abusing my hubbies meds, along with
my
> > own, I was having psychotic episodes. I am thankful that I am alive
today
> to
> > cook and take care of me, not everyone else. Took me a while to get that
> > one. ;>)
> > Best,
> > Gail
>
> hahahahaha, as if we have not seen this tangled thread before. Who
measured
> your chemicals, and who proved they were out of balance?
>
> Bob
She's a woman Bob, they know these things. Sooner you see that, the
better...:-)
>
>
>
>
I'm glad you are alive today as well :-)
Psychotic episodes are not fun and are very frightening. I did not let
things get that far and I am just so grateful to my support team for their
quick intervention. I spent five days in hospital which was enough for me
to realise that I needed to take some time to myself and just chill for a
while.
Getting my meds sorted was a great help. I was on mega doses to try to calm
down at home but in the safety of hospital all the doses were reduced and
timings were changed. Sometimes this becomes nessessary with bipolar, so I
don't feel defeated.
The hospital I was in was great. It is a new building with en-suite rooms.
There are plenty of lounges and quiet areas. The only decision I had to
make each day was which one of three meals did I want. I also know most of
the staff so I feel safe.
debs
--
Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her own.
"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vsc37banf8g0a4@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi Debs. That is exactly what happened to me. I am not bi-polar, but I do
> have a chemical imbalance and after abusing my hubbies meds, along with my
> own, I was having psychotic episodes. I am thankful that I am alive today
to
> cook and take care of me, not everyone else. Took me a while to get that
> one. ;>)
> Best,
> Gail
>
> "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bq4901$8l1$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > No. had some problems with stabilising my mood (bipolar). Things
> running
> > a bit too fast and I was losing a grip a bit. A few days out and a bit
of
> > alteration of meds was all I needed. I went in voluntary and the length
> of
> > stay was negotiated with me. It is always much better that way than for
> > things to get out of control and for me to be dragged in kicking and
> > screaming.
> > I realised that I had been taking on too much and that I could not be
> super
> > hero or super mum all the time ;-) I am now taking a well deserved
break
> > from study and am just doing some pottering around the house.
> >
> > hope you are doing ok too
> >
> > debs
> >
> > --
> > Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her
> own.
> >
> >
> > "Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:vsasm5fje0uree@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Thank you, Debs. Hope you are ok and nothing serious.
> > >
> > > Gail
> > >
> > >
> > > "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:bq2cjd$8k0$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > > > hope you are feeling much better
> > > >
> > > > I am just outta hospital myself.......not too much of a tale though
> just
> > a
> > > > few days of rest.
> > > >
> > > > (((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
> > > >
> > > > debs
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on
> her
> > > own.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Gail" <gailathome@remove thischarter.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:vs8hug2fthv3d9@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > > Hi you all. I just wanted to drop a couple of lines and tell you
all
> > > that
> > > > I
> > > > > am sincerely sorry for all the posts I have made in the past
couple
> of
> > > > > years, down-grading any of you or arguing about things I had no
> > > knowledge
> > > > of
> > > > > or about.
> > > > > Blue, I am really sorry for what I said to you, and Mouse, I owe
you
> > an
> > > > > apology, too.
> > > > > I have been in a mental ward for two weeks. God, do I have a story
> to
> > > > tell,
> > > > > now. Will tell you guys and gals all about it when I am recovered
> some
> > > > what
> > > > > more than I am now..;)
> > > > > I am doing good, just not 100% yet.
> > > > > I love you all and have missed you, even though we have never met.
> > > > > Take care and Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Gail
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Robert McGregor
11-27-2003, 10:52 AM
"stuart" <fred@outerspace.jetsons> wrote in message
news:mmoxb.47794$oN2.30378@edtnps84...
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bq537g$1tgs5s$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:vsc37banf8g0a4@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Hi Debs. That is exactly what happened to me. I am not bi-polar, but I
> do
> > > have a chemical imbalance and after abusing my hubbies meds, along
with
> my
> > > own, I was having psychotic episodes. I am thankful that I am alive
> today
> > to
> > > cook and take care of me, not everyone else. Took me a while to get
that
> > > one. ;>)
> > > Best,
> > > Gail
> >
> > hahahahaha, as if we have not seen this tangled thread before. Who
> measured
> > your chemicals, and who proved they were out of balance?
> >
> > Bob
>
> She's a woman Bob, they know these things. Sooner you see that, the
> better...:-)
>
http://www.ucc.uconn.edu/~wwwnews/rel98119.htm
"Storrs , Conn. -- The effectiveness of antidepressants is mainly in the
placebo effect of treatment, not in the medication itself, according to a
new* study by a University of Connecticut psychologist."
*Not so new now, however as far as I am aware, not negated in the interim
either.
Seem to recall later evidence of much higher recovery rates with placebos,
when the placebo gave noticeable side effects. Seems that many people
automatically think they are being cured, if they can really feel discomfort
It certainly appears then, that the perception of at least some drug
dependant females is way below their non dependant peers. When continuing
with drugs to correct a supposed imbalance merely leads to an even worse
imbalance, that could be cause for pursuing sanity, rather than pursuing
even more drugs. Perhaps the evidence below, from our very own drug
advocate, argues that point best
Bob
From: "rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <l%Rl5.19132$E05.337271@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>
actually, i would have to say that i have had GOOD long term experience with
the treatment of my depression over the past 13yrs.
i have however had to take several different meds as each once finally
"wears
out" and i need to change.
From: "rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ZPSl5.19140$E05.340458@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>
>i am thinking about asking my pdoc to increase my celexa to
>60mg..........anyone else in here have good results with that dosage?
>my 40mg seems to be "pooping out"...........
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bq537g$1tgs5s$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:vsc37banf8g0a4@corp.supernews.com...
> > Hi Debs. That is exactly what happened to me. I am not bi-polar, but I
do
> > have a chemical imbalance and after abusing my hubbies meds, along with
my
> > own, I was having psychotic episodes. I am thankful that I am alive
today
> to
> > cook and take care of me, not everyone else. Took me a while to get that
> > one. ;>)
> > Best,
> > Gail
>
> hahahahaha, as if we have not seen this tangled thread before. Who
measured
> your chemicals, and who proved they were out of balance?
>
> Bob
>
Well, I am just taking the doctor's word as to what is wrong at this time. I
am also 51, haven't had a physical in years and am planning on getting a
physical and some other woman things looked into. I had a hysterectomy at
the age of 32, but ovaries are still there. At least, I think they are..LOL
Anyway, I may just be going through some changes at my age. Not ruling out
anything at this time, including chemical imbalance or old age. ;)
It was my choice to do the pill taking and to be honest, wasn't my choice to
get help. I was scared into getting help and am now glad that I am alive to
tell of my experience and hope that I can make a difference in someone
else's life or addictions, with my own experience.
Is that so wrong?
I thought I was three months pregnant by a robot. I went to an obgyn and
tried to get into see him and tell him that there was no way I could be
pregnant and that it was artificial or implanted in me.
I thought I was dead and in between heaven and hell, mostly hell.
I thought my son's were dead and robots in their place.
I believed my granddaughter was dead and that my daughter-in-law had them
killed and replaced by robots so that I wouldn't know and she would stay out
of jail..
The computer and the TV were warning me that I was in danger and could trust
no one. Does that sound like I was balanced? LOL!
Take care,
Gail
Robert McGregor
11-28-2003, 02:06 AM
"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vsdriklta484fe@corp.supernews.com...
>>>
>>>I
>>> do
> > > have a chemical imbalance
or
>
>Not ruling out
> anything at this time, including chemical imbalance or old age. ;)
Whatever
Bye
Bob
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bq6rve$1tsenr$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:vsdriklta484fe@corp.supernews.com...
> >>>
> >>>I
> >>> do
> > > > have a chemical imbalance
>
> or
>
> >
> >Not ruling out
> > anything at this time, including chemical imbalance or old age. ;)
>
> Whatever
You sound like my nieces. Whatever?
LOL!
>
> Bye
>
> Bob
>
>
Bye
Gail
George &The Dragon
11-28-2003, 12:52 PM
"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vsdriklta484fe@corp.supernews.com...
> I thought I was three months pregnant by a robot. I went to an obgyn and
> tried to get into see him and tell him that there was no way I could be
> pregnant and that it was artificial or implanted in me.
> I thought I was dead and in between heaven and hell, mostly hell.
> I thought my son's were dead and robots in their place.
> I believed my granddaughter was dead and that my daughter-in-law had them
> killed and replaced by robots so that I wouldn't know and she would stay
out
> of jail..
> The computer and the TV were warning me that I was in danger and could
trust
> no one. Does that sound like I was balanced? LOL!
Gail,
These are serious, severe and frightening symptoms. It sounds like you have
already taken enormous steps towards recovery, and without the "help" of the
people on this board. Take the advice and support for your mental health
from the people who have already taken you this far. These are the people
who know you and care about you.
Hope you had a great Thanksgiving dinner yesterday.
All the best
George
& the Dragon
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bq537g$1tgs5s$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:vsc37banf8g0a4@corp.supernews.com...
> > Hi Debs. That is exactly what happened to me. I am not bi-polar,
but I do
> > have a chemical imbalance and after abusing my hubbies meds, along
with my
> > own, I was having psychotic episodes. I am thankful that I am
alive today
> to
> > cook and take care of me, not everyone else. Took me a while to
get that
> > one. ;>)
> > Best,
> > Gail
>
> hahahahaha, as if we have not seen this tangled thread before. Who
measured
> your chemicals, and who proved they were out of balance?
>
> Bob
Perhaps it was Rosie :^))
(Extract from rosie readandpost (readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com) (3rd
May 2003)
welcome to my world...............................
:)
i remember being told in early sobriety, that my depression would
clear up, if i got a sponsor, followed direction, and did the steps.
( ESPECIALLY if i did a better 3rd and 11th step.) those folks, of
course, were talking about the "situational" depression that is quite
common when drinking/drugging cease. i had been using all my
adulthood to "self-medicate" after all, so take away the "medicine"
and some sadness was bound to follow!
only a couple years in recovery passed before i realized that there
was much more wrong, than the common "garden variety" of depression
that accompanies alot of us newly sober folk!
my chemical imbalance NEEDED to be treated with medication and when i
finally surrendered to that fact, my life began. this was VERY
different from the early recovery PINK CLOUD stuff."
JB
(posting while in mischievous mood)
Hi Gail,
Hope you are feeling better. Often think of you - as you might remember we
are almost the same age by a few days. Librans are supposed to be
headstrong and balanced - know the first one is true of me but not sure
about the latter! I'll raise a glass (of lime to juice) to your continuing
improvement. Take care,
Deb/Bubba
"Gail" <gailathome@remove thischarter.net> wrote in message
news:vs8hug2fthv3d9@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi you all. I just wanted to drop a couple of lines and tell you all that
I
> am sincerely sorry for all the posts I have made in the past couple of
> years, down-grading any of you or arguing about things I had no knowledge
of
> or about.
> Blue, I am really sorry for what I said to you, and Mouse, I owe you an
> apology, too.
> I have been in a mental ward for two weeks. God, do I have a story to
tell,
> now. Will tell you guys and gals all about it when I am recovered some
what
> more than I am now..;)
> I am doing good, just not 100% yet.
> I love you all and have missed you, even though we have never met.
> Take care and Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.
>
> Gail
>
>
wow scary stuff.
you were in the right place though and back with us now and that is the main
thing.
I have a friend who is in hospital at the moment going through some scary
stuff like you did. I wish I could show her your post to reasure her that
things do and will get better.
But she is on some new meds now and hopefully when I see her next week the
picture will be very different. The brain chemicals are a bugger when they
hiccup arn't they. The trouble is a lot of people don't understand cos its
not like a broken leg where you can get an x-ray, see the break and then get
a plaster. I'm just extreamly grateful for modern day psychiatric
meds....if it weren't for them I would not live the 'normal' life I do
today.
debs
--
Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her own.
"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vsdriklta484fe@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bq537g$1tgs5s$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:vsc37banf8g0a4@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Hi Debs. That is exactly what happened to me. I am not bi-polar, but I
> do
> > > have a chemical imbalance and after abusing my hubbies meds, along
with
> my
> > > own, I was having psychotic episodes. I am thankful that I am alive
> today
> > to
> > > cook and take care of me, not everyone else. Took me a while to get
that
> > > one. ;>)
> > > Best,
> > > Gail
> >
> > hahahahaha, as if we have not seen this tangled thread before. Who
> measured
> > your chemicals, and who proved they were out of balance?
> >
> > Bob
> >
>
> Well, I am just taking the doctor's word as to what is wrong at this time.
I
> am also 51, haven't had a physical in years and am planning on getting a
> physical and some other woman things looked into. I had a hysterectomy at
> the age of 32, but ovaries are still there. At least, I think they
are..LOL
> Anyway, I may just be going through some changes at my age. Not ruling out
> anything at this time, including chemical imbalance or old age. ;)
> It was my choice to do the pill taking and to be honest, wasn't my choice
to
> get help. I was scared into getting help and am now glad that I am alive
to
> tell of my experience and hope that I can make a difference in someone
> else's life or addictions, with my own experience.
> Is that so wrong?
> I thought I was three months pregnant by a robot. I went to an obgyn and
> tried to get into see him and tell him that there was no way I could be
> pregnant and that it was artificial or implanted in me.
> I thought I was dead and in between heaven and hell, mostly hell.
> I thought my son's were dead and robots in their place.
> I believed my granddaughter was dead and that my daughter-in-law had them
> killed and replaced by robots so that I wouldn't know and she would stay
out
> of jail..
> The computer and the TV were warning me that I was in danger and could
trust
> no one. Does that sound like I was balanced? LOL!
>
> Take care,
> Gail
>
>
"George &The Dragon" <george@dragon.ca> wrote in message
news:lXLxb.20354$Eq1.1929945@news20.bellglobal.com ...
>
> "Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:vsdriklta484fe@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > I thought I was three months pregnant by a robot. I went to an obgyn and
> > tried to get into see him and tell him that there was no way I could be
> > pregnant and that it was artificial or implanted in me.
> > I thought I was dead and in between heaven and hell, mostly hell.
> > I thought my son's were dead and robots in their place.
> > I believed my granddaughter was dead and that my daughter-in-law had
them
> > killed and replaced by robots so that I wouldn't know and she would stay
> out
> > of jail..
> > The computer and the TV were warning me that I was in danger and could
> trust
> > no one. Does that sound like I was balanced? LOL!
>
> Gail,
> These are serious, severe and frightening symptoms. It sounds like you
have
> already taken enormous steps towards recovery, and without the "help" of
the
> people on this board. Take the advice and support for your mental health
> from the people who have already taken you this far. These are the people
> who know you and care about you.
>
> Hope you had a great Thanksgiving dinner yesterday.
> All the best
>
> George
>
>
>
> & the Dragon
>
>
Thank you. I did have a nice Thanksgiving. I cooked enough for an Army.
Last night, my husband and I went to Nashville and met my sis and her hubby
and see the Rockett's Christmas show at the Opry. It was spectacular!
I was suppose to go to New York with my sis later this week. Don't know if
that is still on or not.
I want to go to a meeting tonight. I went on Thanksgiving for the alco-thon
and visited a while. I am going to get more involved with AA, now.
Oh, there is more to my story. I will probably get a chance to tell it soon.
I am doing a lot better. Still seems unreal, at times. I can appreciate the
fact that I am fortunate enough to be able to tell my story.
All the best,
Gail
"debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bq8e54$ice$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> wow scary stuff.
> you were in the right place though and back with us now and that is the
main
> thing.
> I have a friend who is in hospital at the moment going through some scary
> stuff like you did. I wish I could show her your post to reasure her that
> things do and will get better.
> But she is on some new meds now and hopefully when I see her next week the
> picture will be very different. The brain chemicals are a bugger when
they
> hiccup arn't they. The trouble is a lot of people don't understand cos
its
> not like a broken leg where you can get an x-ray, see the break and then
get
> a plaster. I'm just extreamly grateful for modern day psychiatric
> meds....if it weren't for them I would not live the 'normal' life I do
> today.
>
> debs
>
Thank you, Debs.
I am on Repirdal and Tiazadone at night.(sp?) I am taking as prescribed and
I am not going to even take an aspirin without the doctor saying that I can.
I hope your friend isn't abusing meds like I was. I should have known that
if my husband wouldn't take those pills, I shouldn't have either. Dumb
choice and thinking on my part. I did learn my lesson and it is getting so
much better.
> --
> Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her
own.
>
I like the above sentence..LOL
All the best,
Gail
"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bq850f$r4h$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bq537g$1tgs5s$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:vsc37banf8g0a4@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Hi Debs. That is exactly what happened to me. I am not bi-polar,
> but I do
> > > have a chemical imbalance and after abusing my hubbies meds, along
> with my
> > > own, I was having psychotic episodes. I am thankful that I am
> alive today
> > to
> > > cook and take care of me, not everyone else. Took me a while to
> get that
> > > one. ;>)
> > > Best,
> > > Gail
> >
> > hahahahaha, as if we have not seen this tangled thread before. Who
> measured
> > your chemicals, and who proved they were out of balance?
> >
> > Bob
>
> Perhaps it was Rosie :^))
>
> (Extract from rosie readandpost (readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com) (3rd
> May 2003)
>
> welcome to my world...............................
> :)
>
> i remember being told in early sobriety, that my depression would
> clear up, if i got a sponsor, followed direction, and did the steps.
> ( ESPECIALLY if i did a better 3rd and 11th step.) those folks, of
> course, were talking about the "situational" depression that is quite
> common when drinking/drugging cease. i had been using all my
> adulthood to "self-medicate" after all, so take away the "medicine"
> and some sadness was bound to follow!
>
> only a couple years in recovery passed before i realized that there
> was much more wrong, than the common "garden variety" of depression
> that accompanies alot of us newly sober folk!
>
> my chemical imbalance NEEDED to be treated with medication and when i
> finally surrendered to that fact, my life began. this was VERY
> different from the early recovery PINK CLOUD stuff."
>
> JB
> (posting while in mischievous mood)
>
>
>
>
Thanks for this post, JB.
Hope you are doing good. I am lot's better today.
Happy Holidays!
Gail
"Plug" <gluggaglug@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bq86bq$f0i$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> Hi Gail,
> Hope you are feeling better. Often think of you - as you might remember
we
> are almost the same age by a few days. Librans are supposed to be
> headstrong and balanced - know the first one is true of me but not sure
> about the latter! I'll raise a glass (of lime to juice) to your
continuing
> improvement. Take care,
> Deb/Bubba
>
Thanks Bubba! I think of you often, too. You are a friend indeed. Hope your
children are doing great. Things are also improving in that area of my life,
too. :)
Happy Holidays!
Gail
>
> "Gail" <gailathome@remove thischarter.net> wrote in message
> news:vs8hug2fthv3d9@corp.supernews.com...
> > Hi you all. I just wanted to drop a couple of lines and tell you all
that
> I
> > am sincerely sorry for all the posts I have made in the past couple of
> > years, down-grading any of you or arguing about things I had no
knowledge
> of
> > or about.
> > Blue, I am really sorry for what I said to you, and Mouse, I owe you an
> > apology, too.
> > I have been in a mental ward for two weeks. God, do I have a story to
> tell,
> > now. Will tell you guys and gals all about it when I am recovered some
> what
> > more than I am now..;)
> > I am doing good, just not 100% yet.
> > I love you all and have missed you, even though we have never met.
> > Take care and Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.
> >
> > Gail
> >
> >
>
>
No my friend was not abusing meds. She was hearing voices and drinking
about one bottle of wine a day to try to quieten things off.
She got admitted voluntary but then totally freaked and got sectioned. She
has been put on olazaphine(sp) so I guess they are suspecting schizophrenia.
We have had a good talk about the alcohol issue as well being as I have been
there and done that. I think that she just thinks at the moment that her
world has caved in but hopefully when the meds knock in she will see that
there is light at the end of the tunnel.
I know that I got admitted recently but I am looking at that in a positive
way. I went in voluntary and got some things sorted out.
debs
--
Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her own.
"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vshmfr5kgi5j03@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bq8e54$ice$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > wow scary stuff.
> > you were in the right place though and back with us now and that is the
> main
> > thing.
> > I have a friend who is in hospital at the moment going through some
scary
> > stuff like you did. I wish I could show her your post to reasure her
that
> > things do and will get better.
> > But she is on some new meds now and hopefully when I see her next week
the
> > picture will be very different. The brain chemicals are a bugger when
> they
> > hiccup arn't they. The trouble is a lot of people don't understand cos
> its
> > not like a broken leg where you can get an x-ray, see the break and then
> get
> > a plaster. I'm just extreamly grateful for modern day psychiatric
> > meds....if it weren't for them I would not live the 'normal' life I do
> > today.
> >
> > debs
> >
>
> Thank you, Debs.
> I am on Repirdal and Tiazadone at night.(sp?) I am taking as prescribed
and
> I am not going to even take an aspirin without the doctor saying that I
can.
> I hope your friend isn't abusing meds like I was. I should have known that
> if my husband wouldn't take those pills, I shouldn't have either. Dumb
> choice and thinking on my part. I did learn my lesson and it is getting so
> much better.
>
> > --
> > Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her
> own.
> >
>
> I like the above sentence..LOL
>
> All the best,
> Gail
>
>
>
>
>
>
Robert McGregor
11-29-2003, 05:38 PM
"debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bqb5i2$l9c$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>I think that she just thinks at the moment that her
> world has caved in but hopefully when the meds knock in she will see that
> there is light at the end of the tunnel.
> I know that I got admitted recently but I am looking at that in a positive
> way. I went in voluntary and got some things sorted out.
>
"debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bp7mga$kk7$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> There are many stabilisers and just cos one does not work they should not
be
> writen off. It has taken me 7 years to get a combination that works for
me
> and even that is not successful all the time.
------------------------------------------
"A serotonin deficiency for depression has not been found. ... Still,
patients are often given the impression that a definitive serotonin
deficiency in depression is firmly established. ... The result is an
undue inflation of the drug market..."
- Joseph Glenmullen, M.D., clinical instructor in psychiatry at Harvard
Medical School
---
A panel of experts assembled by the U.S. Congress Office of Technology
Assessment reported that "Prominent hypotheses concerning depression
have focused on altered function of the group of neurotransmitters
called monoamines (i.e., norepinephrine, epinephrine, serotonin,
dopamine), particularly norepinephrine (NE) and serotonin. ...
studies of the NE [norepinephrine] autoreceptor in depression have
found no specific evidence of an abnormality to date. Currently, no
clear evidence links abnormal serotonin receptor activity in the brain
to depression. ... the data currently available do not provide
consistent evidence either for altered neurotransmitter levels or for
disruption of normal receptor activity" ( The Biology of Mental
Disorders , U.S. Gov't Printing Office )
---
Antidepressants-Suicide Link
Harvard Psychiatrist: Studies Needed
The Associated Press
B O S T O N < Dr. Jonathan O. Cole, a Harvard psychiatrist .... has
suggested a link between antidepressants and suicide, says drug
manufacturers and the federal government havenšt adequately
investigated the problem.
In the decade since Cole and Harvard colleagues first reported on
early cases of extreme agitation among people taking antidepressants,
use of these drugs < called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or
SSRIs < has reached 84 million prescriptions a year, according to The
Boston Globe .
---
Dr. Victoria Kusiak, North American medical director for Wyeth
Pharmaceuticals, said that in a study of Effexor XR's use against major
depression, ... patients reported thoughts about suicide, versus none
in a comparison group getting a dummy pill.
Additionally, some displayed hostility, more than double the rate in
those getting a placebo. In a study of patients, some displayed
abnormal or changed behavior; none did so in the comparison group.
The letter notes that the studies did not show Effexor relieves
depression or anxiety.
---
[based on excerpts distributed via Harvard School of Public Health]
The first major study to examine the possible association of
[antidepressant] and suicidal preoccupation or violence was published
by Fava and Rosenbaum of the Massachusetts General Hospital. The
design involved a survey of 27 psychiatrists treating 1017 depressed
outpatients at MGH. This survey found that the among those treated ...
had a higher incidence of persons becoming suicidal only after
treatment was initiated .......
Eli Lilly itself weighed in with a meta-analysis performed by Beasley
et. al. of the 17 double blind clinical trials which were conducted
prior to the release of their antidepressant medication. These trials
were pooled into a dataset of a couple of thousand persons including
fluoxetine and placebo subjects. If only suicidal acts were
considered, the pooled incidences were: 50% more for antidepressant
users than for placebo.
---
Can long-term treatment with antidepressant
drugs worsen the course of depression?
by
Fava GA.
Department of Psychiatry,
State University of New York at Buffalo,
Buffalo; and the Affective Disorders Program,
Department of Psychology,
University of Bologna, Bologna, Italy.
RESULTS: A number of reported clinical findings point to the following:
very unfavorable long-term outcome of major depression treated by
pharmacologic means, paradoxical (depression-inducing) effects of
antidepressant drugs in patients with mood and anxiety
disturbances, antidepressant-induced switching and cycle acceleration
in bipolar disorder, occurrence of tolerance to the effects of
antidepressants during long-term treatment, onset of resistance upon
rechallenge with the same antidepressant drug, and withdrawal syndromes
following discontinuation of mood-elevating drugs.
These phenomena in may be explained on the basis of the oppositional
model of tolerance. Continued drug treatment may recruit processes that
oppose the initial acute effects of a drug and may result in loss of
clinical effect. When drug treatment ends, these processes may operate
unopposed and increase vulnerability to relapse.
---
Why has the antidepressant era not shown
a significant drop in suicide rates?
by
van Praag HM.
Department of Psychiatry and Neuropsychology,
Academic Hospital, Maastricht University,
The Netherlands.
ABSTRACT
Over the past decades the rate of completed suicide has remained quite
stable, whereas that of suicide attempts seems to have increased (to
the extent it has been studied in defined regions). These are puzzling
observations, since depression is the major suicide precursor and since
antidepressants have been increasingly used over the years in the
treatment of depression. These observations have not attracted
sufficient attention, possibly because they do not accord with
consensus opinions about depression treatment in psychiatry today.
---------------------
"Side Effects
Nausea, drowsiness, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, upset stomach, or dry
mouth ... vomiting, loss of appetite, unusual or severe mental/mood
changes, increased sweating/flushing, unusual fatigue, uncontrolled
movements (tremor). ... blurred vision, stomach pain, fever, joint
pain, muscle pain, unusually fast heartbeat, decreased interest in sex,
changes in sexual ability, change in amount of urine. ... weight
changes, taste changes, changes in menstrual period, unusual swelling
of the hands/feet/face, seizures, painful and/or prolonged erection
and/or libidinous decline and/or difficulty in attaining and/or
maintaining erection."
"This drug may make you dizzy or drowsy; use caution engaging in
activities requiring alertness such as driving or using machinery."
"Overdose
If overdose is suspected, contact your local poison control center or
emergency room immediately. "
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bqb6ul$202dpm$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bqb5i2$l9c$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> >I think that she just thinks at the moment that her
> > world has caved in but hopefully when the meds knock in she will see
that
> > there is light at the end of the tunnel.
> > I know that I got admitted recently but I am looking at that in a
positive
> > way. I went in voluntary and got some things sorted out.
> >
> "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bp7mga$kk7$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> >
> > There are many stabilisers and just cos one does not work they should
not
> be
> > writen off. It has taken me 7 years to get a combination that works for
> me
> > and even that is not successful all the time.
> ------------------------------------------
>
> "A serotonin deficiency for depression has not been found. ... Still,
> patients are often given the impression that a definitive serotonin
> deficiency in depression is firmly established. ... The result is an
> undue inflation of the drug market..."
> - Joseph Glenmullen, M.D., clinical instructor in psychiatry at Harvard
> Medical School
> ---
> A panel of experts assembled by the U.S. Congress Office of Technology
> Assessment reported that "Prominent hypotheses concerning depression
> have focused on altered function of the group of neurotransmitters
> called monoamines (i.e., norepinephrine, epinephrine, serotonin,
> dopamine), particularly norepinephrine (NE) and serotonin. ...
> studies of the NE [norepinephrine] autoreceptor in depression have
> found no specific evidence of an abnormality to date. Currently, no
> clear evidence links abnormal serotonin receptor activity in the brain
> to depression. ... the data currently available do not provide
> consistent evidence either for altered neurotransmitter levels or for
> disruption of normal receptor activity" ( The Biology of Mental
> Disorders , U.S. Gov't Printing Office )
> ---
> Antidepressants-Suicide Link
> Harvard Psychiatrist: Studies Needed
> The Associated Press
> B O S T O N < Dr. Jonathan O. Cole, a Harvard psychiatrist .... has
> suggested a link between antidepressants and suicide, says drug
> manufacturers and the federal government havenšt adequately
> investigated the problem.
> In the decade since Cole and Harvard colleagues first reported on
> early cases of extreme agitation among people taking antidepressants,
> use of these drugs < called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or
> SSRIs < has reached 84 million prescriptions a year, according to The
> Boston Globe .
> ---
> Dr. Victoria Kusiak, North American medical director for Wyeth
> Pharmaceuticals, said that in a study of Effexor XR's use against major
> depression, ... patients reported thoughts about suicide, versus none
> in a comparison group getting a dummy pill.
>
> Additionally, some displayed hostility, more than double the rate in
> those getting a placebo. In a study of patients, some displayed
> abnormal or changed behavior; none did so in the comparison group.
>
> The letter notes that the studies did not show Effexor relieves
> depression or anxiety.
> ---
> [based on excerpts distributed via Harvard School of Public Health]
>
> The first major study to examine the possible association of
> [antidepressant] and suicidal preoccupation or violence was published
> by Fava and Rosenbaum of the Massachusetts General Hospital. The
> design involved a survey of 27 psychiatrists treating 1017 depressed
> outpatients at MGH. This survey found that the among those treated ...
> had a higher incidence of persons becoming suicidal only after
> treatment was initiated .......
>
> Eli Lilly itself weighed in with a meta-analysis performed by Beasley
> et. al. of the 17 double blind clinical trials which were conducted
> prior to the release of their antidepressant medication. These trials
> were pooled into a dataset of a couple of thousand persons including
> fluoxetine and placebo subjects. If only suicidal acts were
> considered, the pooled incidences were: 50% more for antidepressant
> users than for placebo.
> ---
> Can long-term treatment with antidepressant
> drugs worsen the course of depression?
> by
> Fava GA.
> Department of Psychiatry,
> State University of New York at Buffalo,
> Buffalo; and the Affective Disorders Program,
> Department of Psychology,
> University of Bologna, Bologna, Italy.
>
> RESULTS: A number of reported clinical findings point to the following:
> very unfavorable long-term outcome of major depression treated by
> pharmacologic means, paradoxical (depression-inducing) effects of
> antidepressant drugs in patients with mood and anxiety
> disturbances, antidepressant-induced switching and cycle acceleration
> in bipolar disorder, occurrence of tolerance to the effects of
> antidepressants during long-term treatment, onset of resistance upon
> rechallenge with the same antidepressant drug, and withdrawal syndromes
> following discontinuation of mood-elevating drugs.
>
> These phenomena in may be explained on the basis of the oppositional
> model of tolerance. Continued drug treatment may recruit processes that
> oppose the initial acute effects of a drug and may result in loss of
> clinical effect. When drug treatment ends, these processes may operate
> unopposed and increase vulnerability to relapse.
> ---
> Why has the antidepressant era not shown
> a significant drop in suicide rates?
> by
> van Praag HM.
> Department of Psychiatry and Neuropsychology,
> Academic Hospital, Maastricht University,
> The Netherlands.
>
> ABSTRACT
> Over the past decades the rate of completed suicide has remained quite
> stable, whereas that of suicide attempts seems to have increased (to
> the extent it has been studied in defined regions). These are puzzling
> observations, since depression is the major suicide precursor and since
> antidepressants have been increasingly used over the years in the
> treatment of depression. These observations have not attracted
> sufficient attention, possibly because they do not accord with
> consensus opinions about depression treatment in psychiatry today.
>
>
> ---------------------
> "Side Effects
> Nausea, drowsiness, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, upset stomach, or dry
> mouth ... vomiting, loss of appetite, unusual or severe mental/mood
> changes, increased sweating/flushing, unusual fatigue, uncontrolled
> movements (tremor). ... blurred vision, stomach pain, fever, joint
> pain, muscle pain, unusually fast heartbeat, decreased interest in sex,
> changes in sexual ability, change in amount of urine. ... weight
> changes, taste changes, changes in menstrual period, unusual swelling
> of the hands/feet/face, seizures, painful and/or prolonged erection
> and/or libidinous decline and/or difficulty in attaining and/or
> maintaining erection."
>
> "This drug may make you dizzy or drowsy; use caution engaging in
> activities requiring alertness such as driving or using machinery."
>
> "Overdose
> If overdose is suspected, contact your local poison control center or
> emergency room immediately. "
>
>
Thanks, Robert. This is very interesting.
I was told that the anti-depressants I were taking contributed to or made me
depressed. I was on Zoloft and Ambien. Previously to that, I was on Serzone
and Seroquel. Then, I started taking my hubbies meds that he would not take
because of the side effects and he didn't want to risk a relapse. He asked
me why I took them. I told him because he wasn't taking them I thought I
would. He said that really made a lot of sense for me to take something that
he was afraid to take. It didn't make sense that I did what I did. I was so
stupid. I know that I am an alcoholic and addict.
I need to read up on the resperdal(sp?). It is an anti psychotic? I was
taken off the anti-depressants. I need to read up more on the meds I am on.
They do appear to be working for me, along with my new outlook on life and
my recovery.
I should have known better than to do what I did. In a way, I am glad I did
it or I wouldn't be where I am today in my recovery.
Take care,
Gail
Blue Moon
11-30-2003, 02:23 AM
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:05:23 -0600, "Gail"
<serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I was told that the anti-depressants I were taking contributed to or made me
>depressed. I was on Zoloft and Ambien. Previously to that, I was on Serzone
>and Seroquel. Then, I started taking my hubbies meds that he would not take
>because of the side effects and he didn't want to risk a relapse. He asked
>me why I took them. I told him because he wasn't taking them I thought I
>would. He said that really made a lot of sense for me to take something that
>he was afraid to take. It didn't make sense that I did what I did. I was so
>stupid. I know that I am an alcoholic and addict.
Is it possible that the medications themselves were lowering your
natural inhibitions, and thus effectively removing that element of
"choice" that a "sane" person has in abusing medications?
At the time you took them, you must have either considered it a
rational decision, or at least "not so bad after all". Therefore, for
whatever reason, your judgement was not sound. I'm just wondering
what the cause was considering the apparent rapid onset of this
thinking.
>I need to read up on the resperdal(sp?). It is an anti psychotic?
Yes.
http://www.4therapy.com/consumer/medications/item.php?uniqueid=133
--
Blue Moon
No point in quoting statistics about ADs to me, I don't use them. They
cause drug induced mania in my case.
I use a mood stabiliser called sodium valproate (epilim) more commonly used
for treating epilepsy, but now a common second line treatment for bipolar to
be used in cases where lithium does not work.
The aim of the stabiliser is not to lower or raise my mood artificially but
to hold it steady. It works on the neurotransmitters in my brain that get
out of synch at certain times. I will be honest in saying that I don't know
know the full medical details but I know that for 90% of the time it works.
The reason for my latest mood swing was non complience of medication. It
took a full 6 months for this to have an effect but have an effect it did.
I was in hospital to have the meds started again. I had somehow got it into
my head that without alcohol the mood swings had stopped, but I learned to
my cost that this was not the case. Yes, not using alcohol had helped and
indeed it contibuted to my ability to hold stable without meds for 6 months,
but bipolar is cyclical and unfortunately when I hit Oct/Nov the 'fun'
started again.
Lesson learned!!!! now I am off to take my poisons for the day.
debs
--
Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her own.
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bqb6ul$202dpm$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bqb5i2$l9c$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> >I think that she just thinks at the moment that her
> > world has caved in but hopefully when the meds knock in she will see
that
> > there is light at the end of the tunnel.
> > I know that I got admitted recently but I am looking at that in a
positive
> > way. I went in voluntary and got some things sorted out.
> >
> "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bp7mga$kk7$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> >
> > There are many stabilisers and just cos one does not work they should
not
> be
> > writen off. It has taken me 7 years to get a combination that works for
> me
> > and even that is not successful all the time.
> ------------------------------------------
>
> "A serotonin deficiency for depression has not been found. ... Still,
> patients are often given the impression that a definitive serotonin
> deficiency in depression is firmly established. ... The result is an
> undue inflation of the drug market..."
> - Joseph Glenmullen, M.D., clinical instructor in psychiatry at Harvard
> Medical School
> ---
> A panel of experts assembled by the U.S. Congress Office of Technology
> Assessment reported that "Prominent hypotheses concerning depression
> have focused on altered function of the group of neurotransmitters
> called monoamines (i.e., norepinephrine, epinephrine, serotonin,
> dopamine), particularly norepinephrine (NE) and serotonin. ...
> studies of the NE [norepinephrine] autoreceptor in depression have
> found no specific evidence of an abnormality to date. Currently, no
> clear evidence links abnormal serotonin receptor activity in the brain
> to depression. ... the data currently available do not provide
> consistent evidence either for altered neurotransmitter levels or for
> disruption of normal receptor activity" ( The Biology of Mental
> Disorders , U.S. Gov't Printing Office )
> ---
> Antidepressants-Suicide Link
> Harvard Psychiatrist: Studies Needed
> The Associated Press
> B O S T O N < Dr. Jonathan O. Cole, a Harvard psychiatrist .... has
> suggested a link between antidepressants and suicide, says drug
> manufacturers and the federal government havenšt adequately
> investigated the problem.
> In the decade since Cole and Harvard colleagues first reported on
> early cases of extreme agitation among people taking antidepressants,
> use of these drugs < called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or
> SSRIs < has reached 84 million prescriptions a year, according to The
> Boston Globe .
> ---
> Dr. Victoria Kusiak, North American medical director for Wyeth
> Pharmaceuticals, said that in a study of Effexor XR's use against major
> depression, ... patients reported thoughts about suicide, versus none
> in a comparison group getting a dummy pill.
>
> Additionally, some displayed hostility, more than double the rate in
> those getting a placebo. In a study of patients, some displayed
> abnormal or changed behavior; none did so in the comparison group.
>
> The letter notes that the studies did not show Effexor relieves
> depression or anxiety.
> ---
> [based on excerpts distributed via Harvard School of Public Health]
>
> The first major study to examine the possible association of
> [antidepressant] and suicidal preoccupation or violence was published
> by Fava and Rosenbaum of the Massachusetts General Hospital. The
> design involved a survey of 27 psychiatrists treating 1017 depressed
> outpatients at MGH. This survey found that the among those treated ...
> had a higher incidence of persons becoming suicidal only after
> treatment was initiated .......
>
> Eli Lilly itself weighed in with a meta-analysis performed by Beasley
> et. al. of the 17 double blind clinical trials which were conducted
> prior to the release of their antidepressant medication. These trials
> were pooled into a dataset of a couple of thousand persons including
> fluoxetine and placebo subjects. If only suicidal acts were
> considered, the pooled incidences were: 50% more for antidepressant
> users than for placebo.
> ---
> Can long-term treatment with antidepressant
> drugs worsen the course of depression?
> by
> Fava GA.
> Department of Psychiatry,
> State University of New York at Buffalo,
> Buffalo; and the Affective Disorders Program,
> Department of Psychology,
> University of Bologna, Bologna, Italy.
>
> RESULTS: A number of reported clinical findings point to the following:
> very unfavorable long-term outcome of major depression treated by
> pharmacologic means, paradoxical (depression-inducing) effects of
> antidepressant drugs in patients with mood and anxiety
> disturbances, antidepressant-induced switching and cycle acceleration
> in bipolar disorder, occurrence of tolerance to the effects of
> antidepressants during long-term treatment, onset of resistance upon
> rechallenge with the same antidepressant drug, and withdrawal syndromes
> following discontinuation of mood-elevating drugs.
>
> These phenomena in may be explained on the basis of the oppositional
> model of tolerance. Continued drug treatment may recruit processes that
> oppose the initial acute effects of a drug and may result in loss of
> clinical effect. When drug treatment ends, these processes may operate
> unopposed and increase vulnerability to relapse.
> ---
> Why has the antidepressant era not shown
> a significant drop in suicide rates?
> by
> van Praag HM.
> Department of Psychiatry and Neuropsychology,
> Academic Hospital, Maastricht University,
> The Netherlands.
>
> ABSTRACT
> Over the past decades the rate of completed suicide has remained quite
> stable, whereas that of suicide attempts seems to have increased (to
> the extent it has been studied in defined regions). These are puzzling
> observations, since depression is the major suicide precursor and since
> antidepressants have been increasingly used over the years in the
> treatment of depression. These observations have not attracted
> sufficient attention, possibly because they do not accord with
> consensus opinions about depression treatment in psychiatry today.
>
>
> ---------------------
> "Side Effects
> Nausea, drowsiness, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, upset stomach, or dry
> mouth ... vomiting, loss of appetite, unusual or severe mental/mood
> changes, increased sweating/flushing, unusual fatigue, uncontrolled
> movements (tremor). ... blurred vision, stomach pain, fever, joint
> pain, muscle pain, unusually fast heartbeat, decreased interest in sex,
> changes in sexual ability, change in amount of urine. ... weight
> changes, taste changes, changes in menstrual period, unusual swelling
> of the hands/feet/face, seizures, painful and/or prolonged erection
> and/or libidinous decline and/or difficulty in attaining and/or
> maintaining erection."
>
> "This drug may make you dizzy or drowsy; use caution engaging in
> activities requiring alertness such as driving or using machinery."
>
> "Overdose
> If overdose is suspected, contact your local poison control center or
> emergency room immediately. "
>
>
Blue Moon
11-30-2003, 12:45 PM
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:23:54 +0000 (UTC), "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>The reason for my latest mood swing was non complience of medication.
Doesn't sound like you have a dependency problem with it then :) I
understand that mood stabilisers are a different matter from many ADs
and tranqs, because when the patient feels "normal" many are inclined
to discontinue the dosage and subsequently "flip out". I've seen one
girl who gets psychotic episodes, and even when relatively stable
would probably be the first to admit she's unwell. Rather different
from those who are clearly unwell yet believe they're doing just fine.
--
Blue Moon
"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5b370daa6d840c58e3c98f5a420b124a@news.teranew s.com...
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:05:23 -0600, "Gail"
> <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >I was told that the anti-depressants I were taking contributed to or made
me
> >depressed. I was on Zoloft and Ambien. Previously to that, I was on
Serzone
> >and Seroquel. Then, I started taking my hubbies meds that he would not
take
> >because of the side effects and he didn't want to risk a relapse. He
asked
> >me why I took them. I told him because he wasn't taking them I thought I
> >would. He said that really made a lot of sense for me to take something
that
> >he was afraid to take. It didn't make sense that I did what I did. I was
so
> >stupid. I know that I am an alcoholic and addict.
>
> Is it possible that the medications themselves were lowering your
> natural inhibitions, and thus effectively removing that element of
> "choice" that a "sane" person has in abusing medications?
>
> At the time you took them, you must have either considered it a
> rational decision, or at least "not so bad after all". Therefore, for
> whatever reason, your judgement was not sound. I'm just wondering
> what the cause was considering the apparent rapid onset of this
> thinking.
It was not a rapid decision. It was a rapid setback when I stopped taking
those meds. that I wasn't suppose to take.
>
> >I need to read up on the resperdal(sp?). It is an anti psychotic?
>
> Yes.
> http://www.4therapy.com/consumer/medications/item.php?uniqueid=133
>
> --
> Blue Moon
Thank you for the site. I bookmarked and am going to read.
Hi Debs. That is what Resperdal is called. A mood stabilizer. I forget, at
times, what was said while I was there. You posting that helped me think
about what I was told. Thanks!
Gail
"debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bqcngn$r87$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> No point in quoting statistics about ADs to me, I don't use them. They
> cause drug induced mania in my case.
> I use a mood stabiliser called sodium valproate (epilim) more commonly
used
> for treating epilepsy, but now a common second line treatment for bipolar
to
> be used in cases where lithium does not work.
>
> The aim of the stabiliser is not to lower or raise my mood artificially
but
> to hold it steady. It works on the neurotransmitters in my brain that get
> out of synch at certain times. I will be honest in saying that I don't
know
> know the full medical details but I know that for 90% of the time it
works.
> The reason for my latest mood swing was non complience of medication. It
> took a full 6 months for this to have an effect but have an effect it did.
> I was in hospital to have the meds started again. I had somehow got it
into
> my head that without alcohol the mood swings had stopped, but I learned to
> my cost that this was not the case. Yes, not using alcohol had helped and
> indeed it contibuted to my ability to hold stable without meds for 6
months,
> but bipolar is cyclical and unfortunately when I hit Oct/Nov the 'fun'
> started again.
> Lesson learned!!!! now I am off to take my poisons for the day.
>
> debs
>
> --
> Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her
own.
>
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bqb6ul$202dpm$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:bqb5i2$l9c$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> >
> > >I think that she just thinks at the moment that her
> > > world has caved in but hopefully when the meds knock in she will see
> that
> > > there is light at the end of the tunnel.
> > > I know that I got admitted recently but I am looking at that in a
> positive
> > > way. I went in voluntary and got some things sorted out.
> > >
> > "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:bp7mga$kk7$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> >
> > >
> > > There are many stabilisers and just cos one does not work they should
> not
> > be
> > > writen off. It has taken me 7 years to get a combination that works
for
> > me
> > > and even that is not successful all the time.
> > ------------------------------------------
> >
> > "A serotonin deficiency for depression has not been found. ... Still,
> > patients are often given the impression that a definitive serotonin
> > deficiency in depression is firmly established. ... The result is an
> > undue inflation of the drug market..."
> > - Joseph Glenmullen, M.D., clinical instructor in psychiatry at Harvard
> > Medical School
> > ---
> > A panel of experts assembled by the U.S. Congress Office of Technology
> > Assessment reported that "Prominent hypotheses concerning depression
> > have focused on altered function of the group of neurotransmitters
> > called monoamines (i.e., norepinephrine, epinephrine, serotonin,
> > dopamine), particularly norepinephrine (NE) and serotonin. ...
> > studies of the NE [norepinephrine] autoreceptor in depression have
> > found no specific evidence of an abnormality to date. Currently, no
> > clear evidence links abnormal serotonin receptor activity in the brain
> > to depression. ... the data currently available do not provide
> > consistent evidence either for altered neurotransmitter levels or for
> > disruption of normal receptor activity" ( The Biology of Mental
> > Disorders , U.S. Gov't Printing Office )
> > ---
> > Antidepressants-Suicide Link
> > Harvard Psychiatrist: Studies Needed
> > The Associated Press
> > B O S T O N < Dr. Jonathan O. Cole, a Harvard psychiatrist .... has
> > suggested a link between antidepressants and suicide, says drug
> > manufacturers and the federal government havenšt adequately
> > investigated the problem.
> > In the decade since Cole and Harvard colleagues first reported on
> > early cases of extreme agitation among people taking antidepressants,
> > use of these drugs < called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or
> > SSRIs < has reached 84 million prescriptions a year, according to The
> > Boston Globe .
> > ---
> > Dr. Victoria Kusiak, North American medical director for Wyeth
> > Pharmaceuticals, said that in a study of Effexor XR's use against major
> > depression, ... patients reported thoughts about suicide, versus none
> > in a comparison group getting a dummy pill.
> >
> > Additionally, some displayed hostility, more than double the rate in
> > those getting a placebo. In a study of patients, some displayed
> > abnormal or changed behavior; none did so in the comparison group.
> >
> > The letter notes that the studies did not show Effexor relieves
> > depression or anxiety.
> > ---
> > [based on excerpts distributed via Harvard School of Public Health]
> >
> > The first major study to examine the possible association of
> > [antidepressant] and suicidal preoccupation or violence was published
> > by Fava and Rosenbaum of the Massachusetts General Hospital. The
> > design involved a survey of 27 psychiatrists treating 1017 depressed
> > outpatients at MGH. This survey found that the among those treated ...
> > had a higher incidence of persons becoming suicidal only after
> > treatment was initiated .......
> >
> > Eli Lilly itself weighed in with a meta-analysis performed by Beasley
> > et. al. of the 17 double blind clinical trials which were conducted
> > prior to the release of their antidepressant medication. These trials
> > were pooled into a dataset of a couple of thousand persons including
> > fluoxetine and placebo subjects. If only suicidal acts were
> > considered, the pooled incidences were: 50% more for antidepressant
> > users than for placebo.
> > ---
> > Can long-term treatment with antidepressant
> > drugs worsen the course of depression?
> > by
> > Fava GA.
> > Department of Psychiatry,
> > State University of New York at Buffalo,
> > Buffalo; and the Affective Disorders Program,
> > Department of Psychology,
> > University of Bologna, Bologna, Italy.
> >
> > RESULTS: A number of reported clinical findings point to the following:
> > very unfavorable long-term outcome of major depression treated by
> > pharmacologic means, paradoxical (depression-inducing) effects of
> > antidepressant drugs in patients with mood and anxiety
> > disturbances, antidepressant-induced switching and cycle acceleration
> > in bipolar disorder, occurrence of tolerance to the effects of
> > antidepressants during long-term treatment, onset of resistance upon
> > rechallenge with the same antidepressant drug, and withdrawal syndromes
> > following discontinuation of mood-elevating drugs.
> >
> > These phenomena in may be explained on the basis of the oppositional
> > model of tolerance. Continued drug treatment may recruit processes that
> > oppose the initial acute effects of a drug and may result in loss of
> > clinical effect. When drug treatment ends, these processes may operate
> > unopposed and increase vulnerability to relapse.
> > ---
> > Why has the antidepressant era not shown
> > a significant drop in suicide rates?
> > by
> > van Praag HM.
> > Department of Psychiatry and Neuropsychology,
> > Academic Hospital, Maastricht University,
> > The Netherlands.
> >
> > ABSTRACT
> > Over the past decades the rate of completed suicide has remained quite
> > stable, whereas that of suicide attempts seems to have increased (to
> > the extent it has been studied in defined regions). These are puzzling
> > observations, since depression is the major suicide precursor and since
> > antidepressants have been increasingly used over the years in the
> > treatment of depression. These observations have not attracted
> > sufficient attention, possibly because they do not accord with
> > consensus opinions about depression treatment in psychiatry today.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------
> > "Side Effects
> > Nausea, drowsiness, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, upset stomach, or dry
> > mouth ... vomiting, loss of appetite, unusual or severe mental/mood
> > changes, increased sweating/flushing, unusual fatigue, uncontrolled
> > movements (tremor). ... blurred vision, stomach pain, fever, joint
> > pain, muscle pain, unusually fast heartbeat, decreased interest in sex,
> > changes in sexual ability, change in amount of urine. ... weight
> > changes, taste changes, changes in menstrual period, unusual swelling
> > of the hands/feet/face, seizures, painful and/or prolonged erection
> > and/or libidinous decline and/or difficulty in attaining and/or
> > maintaining erection."
> >
> > "This drug may make you dizzy or drowsy; use caution engaging in
> > activities requiring alertness such as driving or using machinery."
> >
> > "Overdose
> > If overdose is suspected, contact your local poison control center or
> > emergency room immediately. "
> >
> >
>
>
yeah....I seem to have a pretty good idea when things are not as they should
be now. Thanks to my journal and mood diary I can spot signs and start to
question them. It is difficult to continue meds when I feel so well esp.
this year as I had stopped drinking as well and this itself led to less mood
swings. It was oh so easy to tell myself that I did not have bipolar.
Never mind another lesson learned and not too harsh a lesson this time. The
last time I didn't comply with meds led to 3 suicide attempts and 3 months
in hospital some of it in a locked ward. Mind you I was also drinking
heavily as well at the time so my time sober and my time in this group has
not been wasted :-)
debs
--
Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her own.
"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3220c16e01235bffdf91760a3b284607@news.teranew s.com...
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:23:54 +0000 (UTC), "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >The reason for my latest mood swing was non complience of medication.
>
> Doesn't sound like you have a dependency problem with it then :) I
> understand that mood stabilisers are a different matter from many ADs
> and tranqs, because when the patient feels "normal" many are inclined
> to discontinue the dosage and subsequently "flip out". I've seen one
> girl who gets psychotic episodes, and even when relatively stable
> would probably be the first to admit she's unwell. Rather different
> from those who are clearly unwell yet believe they're doing just fine.
>
> --
> Blue Moon
yes that one is used to deal with the hallucinations ect that you were
experiencing. It can be used in bipolar but not so often as not many
bipolars experience what you did.
I looked it up on the net and it seemed pretty good and not too many side
effects. It is not used to lift or lower your mood but just to deal with
the symtoms that you were presenting.
Even when I am in the depressed stage of bipolar I don't look for ADs. They
can provide relief but I generally know that any depression I am getting is
going to be short lived. For me the less drugs the better. I am having to
take an anti-anxiety med at the moment which is ok and is doing its job but
hopefully after christmas I can start tapering off (with GPs advice) I am
also using a low dose of anti-psychotic to calm down my thoughts. This is
my fault for dropping the stabiliser. Once the stabiliser is doing its job
again it should be the only med I take.
BUT even with all this I am happy to be sober today.
debs
--
Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her own.
"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vslj823bgi1va4@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi Debs. That is what Resperdal is called. A mood stabilizer. I forget, at
> times, what was said while I was there. You posting that helped me think
> about what I was told. Thanks!
> Gail
>
> "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bqcngn$r87$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> > No point in quoting statistics about ADs to me, I don't use them. They
> > cause drug induced mania in my case.
> > I use a mood stabiliser called sodium valproate (epilim) more commonly
> used
> > for treating epilepsy, but now a common second line treatment for
bipolar
> to
> > be used in cases where lithium does not work.
> >
> > The aim of the stabiliser is not to lower or raise my mood artificially
> but
> > to hold it steady. It works on the neurotransmitters in my brain that
get
> > out of synch at certain times. I will be honest in saying that I don't
> know
> > know the full medical details but I know that for 90% of the time it
> works.
> > The reason for my latest mood swing was non complience of medication.
It
> > took a full 6 months for this to have an effect but have an effect it
did.
> > I was in hospital to have the meds started again. I had somehow got it
> into
> > my head that without alcohol the mood swings had stopped, but I learned
to
> > my cost that this was not the case. Yes, not using alcohol had helped
and
> > indeed it contibuted to my ability to hold stable without meds for 6
> months,
> > but bipolar is cyclical and unfortunately when I hit Oct/Nov the 'fun'
> > started again.
> > Lesson learned!!!! now I am off to take my poisons for the day.
> >
> > debs
> >
> > --
> > Her personality's split so many ways, she goes for group therapy on her
> own.
> >
> >
> > "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:bqb6ul$202dpm$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:bqb5i2$l9c$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> > >
> > > >I think that she just thinks at the moment that her
> > > > world has caved in but hopefully when the meds knock in she will see
> > that
> > > > there is light at the end of the tunnel.
> > > > I know that I got admitted recently but I am looking at that in a
> > positive
> > > > way. I went in voluntary and got some things sorted out.
> > > >
> > > "debs" <debs172@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:bp7mga$kk7$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > There are many stabilisers and just cos one does not work they
should
> > not
> > > be
> > > > writen off. It has taken me 7 years to get a combination that works
> for
> > > me
> > > > and even that is not successful all the time.
> > > ------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > "A serotonin deficiency for depression has not been found. ... Still,
> > > patients are often given the impression that a definitive serotonin
> > > deficiency in depression is firmly established. ... The result is an
> > > undue inflation of the drug market..."
> > > - Joseph Glenmullen, M.D., clinical instructor in psychiatry at
Harvard
> > > Medical School
> > > ---
> > > A panel of experts assembled by the U.S. Congress Office of
Technology
> > > Assessment reported that "Prominent hypotheses concerning depression
> > > have focused on altered function of the group of neurotransmitters
> > > called monoamines (i.e., norepinephrine, epinephrine, serotonin,
> > > dopamine), particularly norepinephrine (NE) and serotonin. ...
> > > studies of the NE [norepinephrine] autoreceptor in depression have
> > > found no specific evidence of an abnormality to date. Currently,
no
> > > clear evidence links abnormal serotonin receptor activity in the
brain
> > > to depression. ... the data currently available do not provide
> > > consistent evidence either for altered neurotransmitter levels or
for
> > > disruption of normal receptor activity" ( The Biology of Mental
> > > Disorders , U.S. Gov't Printing Office )
> > > ---
> > > Antidepressants-Suicide Link
> > > Harvard Psychiatrist: Studies Needed
> > > The Associated Press
> > > B O S T O N < Dr. Jonathan O. Cole, a Harvard psychiatrist .... has
> > > suggested a link between antidepressants and suicide, says drug
> > > manufacturers and the federal government havenšt adequately
> > > investigated the problem.
> > > In the decade since Cole and Harvard colleagues first reported on
> > > early cases of extreme agitation among people taking antidepressants,
> > > use of these drugs < called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors,
or
> > > SSRIs < has reached 84 million prescriptions a year, according to The
> > > Boston Globe .
> > > ---
> > > Dr. Victoria Kusiak, North American medical director for Wyeth
> > > Pharmaceuticals, said that in a study of Effexor XR's use against
major
> > > depression, ... patients reported thoughts about suicide, versus none
> > > in a comparison group getting a dummy pill.
> > >
> > > Additionally, some displayed hostility, more than double the rate in
> > > those getting a placebo. In a study of patients, some displayed
> > > abnormal or changed behavior; none did so in the comparison group.
> > >
> > > The letter notes that the studies did not show Effexor relieves
> > > depression or anxiety.
> > > ---
> > > [based on excerpts distributed via Harvard School of Public Health]
> > >
> > > The first major study to examine the possible association of
> > > [antidepressant] and suicidal preoccupation or violence was published
> > > by Fava and Rosenbaum of the Massachusetts General Hospital. The
> > > design involved a survey of 27 psychiatrists treating 1017 depressed
> > > outpatients at MGH. This survey found that the among those treated
....
> > > had a higher incidence of persons becoming suicidal only after
> > > treatment was initiated .......
> > >
> > > Eli Lilly itself weighed in with a meta-analysis performed by Beasley
> > > et. al. of the 17 double blind clinical trials which were conducted
> > > prior to the release of their antidepressant medication. These
trials
>
> > > were pooled into a dataset of a couple of thousand persons including
> > > fluoxetine and placebo subjects. If only suicidal acts were
> > > considered, the pooled incidences were: 50% more for antidepressant
> > > users than for placebo.
> > > ---
> > > Can long-term treatment with antidepressant
> > > drugs worsen the course of depression?
> > > by
> > > Fava GA.
> > > Department of Psychiatry,
> > > State University of New York at Buffalo,
> > > Buffalo; and the Affective Disorders Program,
> > > Department of Psychology,
> > > University of Bologna, Bologna, Italy.
> > >
> > > RESULTS: A number of reported clinical findings point to the
following:
> > > very unfavorable long-term outcome of major depression treated by
> > > pharmacologic means, paradoxical (depression-inducing) effects of
> > > antidepressant drugs in patients with mood and anxiety
> > > disturbances, antidepressant-induced switching and cycle acceleration
> > > in bipolar disorder, occurrence of tolerance to the effects of
> > > antidepressants during long-term treatment, onset of resistance upon
> > > rechallenge with the same antidepressant drug, and withdrawal
syndromes
> > > following discontinuation of mood-elevating drugs.
> > >
> > > These phenomena in may be explained on the basis of the oppositional
> > > model of tolerance. Continued drug treatment may recruit processes
that
> > > oppose the initial acute effects of a drug and may result in loss of
> > > clinical effect. When drug treatment ends, these processes may
operate
> > > unopposed and increase vulnerability to relapse.
> > > ---
> > > Why has the antidepressant era not shown
> > > a significant drop in suicide rates?
> > > by
> > > van Praag HM.
> > > Department of Psychiatry and Neuropsychology,
> > > Academic Hospital, Maastricht University,
> > > The Netherlands.
> > >
> > > ABSTRACT
> > > Over the past decades the rate of completed suicide has remained
quite
> > > stable, whereas that of suicide attempts seems to have increased (to
> > > the extent it has been studied in defined regions). These are
puzzling
> > > observations, since depression is the major suicide precursor and
since
> > > antidepressants have been increasingly used over the years in the
> > > treatment of depression. These observations have not attracted
> > > sufficient attention, possibly because they do not accord with
> > > consensus opinions about depression treatment in psychiatry today.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------
> > > "Side Eff