New Here -- Advice Needed!

[Kristine]

Hi all. I am addicted to alcohol, and I want the insanity to stop. I
want it so bad some days, I can practically taste it (literally :)
Anyway, I know most of you here are into the AA way. I choose not to
go that route. I am a firm believer that alcoholism is both a
physiological disease as well as psychological. My body needs a
bigtime detox. I am wondering if any of you have done say a 7 or more
day detox (not just detoxing from the alchol, I'm talking a whole body
detox). I did do a detox last spring, and since the skin is the
body's last line of defense when it comes to dumping toxins, my
psoriasis came back with a vengeance, and I know that my kidneys and
liver probably took a beating from doing it so fast. But I do know
that I felt "on top of the world after 12 days of the Master Cleanse
(Stanley Burroughs' Lemonade Diet). I also lost 14 pounds and had
more energy than I have ever had. Many many life changes over the
late spring and summer drove me back to the bottle. I usually drink
maybe a half pint of vodka and couple glasses of wine, and then
conveniently forget to eat.

I'm rambling. The Other Harry, you are a crack up, and your
pontifications on your life (and others :) brought a smile to my face.
I may get flamed for choosing the non AA way, but hey, it's me. I
lost my religion about 15 years ago, and I don't care to find it
again. I am highly spiritual, but that's as far as it goes, and here
in the midwest, every single AA meeting I went to ended up to be a
bunch of Bible thumpers. No thanks.

You guys have a great group here, and I hope I can find some support.

[JB]

"Kristine" <enlightenkks@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b13a6630.0311250758.3d3d70f8@posting.google.c om...
> Hi all. I am addicted to alcohol, and I want the insanity to stop.
I
> want it so bad some days, I can practically taste it (literally :)

<snip>

Hi Kristine,

What is the purpose of the NG alt.flame.psychiatry ?

Yours

JB:

[rosie read and post]

> I may get flamed for choosing the non AA way, but hey, it's me.


i hope you don't!
AA is NOT the only answer for sobriety.


> I am highly spiritual, but that's as far as it goes, and here
> in the midwest, every single AA meeting I went to ended up to be a
> bunch of Bible thumpers. No thanks.


i RUN, not walk, from bible thumping AA meetings.
:)


welcome to the group!
rosie

[Manhattaner32]

http://www.smartrecovery.org/

Thre rational, non-spiritual approach.


"Kristine" <enlightenkks@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b13a6630.0311250758.3d3d70f8@posting.google.c om...
> Hi all. I am addicted to alcohol, and I want the insanity to stop. I
> want it so bad some days, I can practically taste it (literally :)
> Anyway, I know most of you here are into the AA way. I choose not to
> go that route. I am a firm believer that alcoholism is both a
> physiological disease as well as psychological. My body needs a
> bigtime detox. I am wondering if any of you have done say a 7 or more
> day detox (not just detoxing from the alchol, I'm talking a whole body
> detox). I did do a detox last spring, and since the skin is the
> body's last line of defense when it comes to dumping toxins, my
> psoriasis came back with a vengeance, and I know that my kidneys and
> liver probably took a beating from doing it so fast. But I do know
> that I felt "on top of the world after 12 days of the Master Cleanse
> (Stanley Burroughs' Lemonade Diet). I also lost 14 pounds and had
> more energy than I have ever had. Many many life changes over the
> late spring and summer drove me back to the bottle. I usually drink
> maybe a half pint of vodka and couple glasses of wine, and then
> conveniently forget to eat.
>
> I'm rambling. The Other Harry, you are a crack up, and your
> pontifications on your life (and others :) brought a smile to my face.
> I may get flamed for choosing the non AA way, but hey, it's me. I
> lost my religion about 15 years ago, and I don't care to find it
> again. I am highly spiritual, but that's as far as it goes, and here
> in the midwest, every single AA meeting I went to ended up to be a
> bunch of Bible thumpers. No thanks.
>
> You guys have a great group here, and I hope I can find some support.

[The Other Harry]

[On 25 Nov 2003 07:58:24 -0800, enlightenkks@yahoo.com
(Kristine) wrote:]

> I am addicted to alcohol, and I want the insanity to stop.

Stop right there.

I don't know what you mean by insanity. For me, insanity is a
fairly heavy load which does not necessarily include the booze.

If you think you might be insane in that regard -- as I am -- I
would recommend you seek out a shrink. I am trying another one
next month. University of Virginia Medical Center. AA won't do
it for me.

This stuff does need to be taken seriously. People kill
themselves with the booze, but there can be other things as
well.

We *can* deal with them. We just need to get them sorted out.

If you live near a good university hospital, go there. Calling
them up will likey be a bitch. But you have to do it. The
choices do wind down. The list of things you can do gets a
little bit shorter every day.

[stuart]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:d478sv8nqg3fb82m9jurehm5d7p8tr58na@4ax.com...
> [On 25 Nov 2003 07:58:24 -0800, enlightenkks@yahoo.com
> (Kristine) wrote:]
>
> > I am addicted to alcohol, and I want the insanity to stop.
>
> Stop right there.
>
> I don't know what you mean by insanity. For me, insanity is a
> fairly heavy load which does not necessarily include the booze.
>
> If you think you might be insane in that regard -- as I am -- I
> would recommend you seek out a shrink. I am trying another one
> next month. University of Virginia Medical Center. AA won't do
> it for me.
>
> This stuff does need to be taken seriously. People kill
> themselves with the booze, but there can be other things as
> well.
>
> We *can* deal with them. We just need to get them sorted out.
>
> If you live near a good university hospital, go there. Calling
> them up will likey be a bitch. But you have to do it. The
> choices do wind down. The list of things you can do gets a
> little bit shorter every day.

How long has it been since you had a drink Harry?

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:53:44 GMT, "stuart"
<fred@outerspace.jetsons> wrote:]

> How long has it been since you had a drink Harry?

As usual, about 30 seconds.

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:53:25 GMT, "Manhattaner32"
<mattypom@yahoo.com> wrote:]

> I can practically taste it (literally :)

You better be careful. That is like me feeding the baby crow
last night. It is not good. It is very bad.

You really do not want to fuck around with these sorts of
things. I have discussued them on other newsgroups. When you
get to "literally", you have a problem which requires immediate
attention. I know about that.

That does not mean it will be easy to fix. But it is time to go
looking.

[JB]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:ili8svk71qfaaqlp2p56aefs1nv0v7ggl6@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:53:44 GMT, "stuart"
> <fred@outerspace.jetsons> wrote:]
>
> > How long has it been since you had a drink Harry?
>
> As usual, about 30 seconds.

Have you seen Nancy this week ? If you have, what did she tell you to
do? Have you decided to stop seeing Nancy ?

Yours

JB

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:42:24 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
wrote:]

> Have you seen Nancy this week ? If you have, what did she tell you to
> do? Have you decided to stop seeing Nancy ?

I had to change the appointment. I will see her next week.

I go up and down about Nancy. I think much of her advice is
good, but some of it seems wrong. Maybe I have already said
this here (I tend to forget what I post where), but it bothers
me that she sort of shrugged it off when I told her I was
getting hallucinations.

As red lights go, that is a big one. Several people have now
told me this, and I agree with that.

It also bothers me that she does not think I need to quit
drinking, just to moderate. Cut back.

I agree that "moderating" in most areas of my life would be an
improvement, but I don't see that when it comes to alcohol. My
opinion is that I have to quit completely.

Whether this goes to an "underlying issue" or just to the booze
is something which is interesting to discuss here. But the fact
that she would say that in the first place seems to me to
reflect a lack of understanding about alcoholism.

It could be that Nancy is a bit too old and laid back for me.
She also might not know anything about this.

[rosie read and post]

> It also bothers me that she does not think I need to quit
> drinking, just to moderate. Cut back.


harry?

can you drink MODERATELY?

[JB]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:g289svkt7nkfib9qp93chdopkr9osga16d@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:42:24 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
> wrote:]
>
> > Have you seen Nancy this week ? If you have, what did she tell
you to
> > do? Have you decided to stop seeing Nancy ?
>
> I had to change the appointment. I will see her next week.
>
> I go up and down about Nancy. I think much of her advice is
> good, but some of it seems wrong.

<snip>

> It also bothers me that she does not think I need to quit
> drinking, just to moderate. Cut back.

<snip>

> It could be that Nancy is a bit too old and laid back for me.
> She also might not know anything about this.

Hi,

I expect the reason why Nancy has told you to moderate your drinking
rather than stop drinking altogether is because *you did not tell her
that you were an alcoholic*. I suspect that you have also not given
her other such essential info about yourself that could help her help
you . I don't expect you ever will. FWIW, the journal Nancy asked
you to keep - which you have refused to keep - could have been of
benefit to her in her quest to help you.

To be brutally honest with you Harry, until you grasp the fact that
*the only person who can change your life around is you with the help
of others* , not others without you doing what they tell you to do,
your alcoholism
will eventually kill you. Probably, quite soon. You know this.
You've told us so more than once.

When you are dead, I hope someone will care enough about your dog to
find him/her a good home.

Yours

JB

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:55:52 GMT, "rosie read and post"
<readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote:]

> can you drink MODERATELY?

I don't think so.

It might be possible if I get myself out of the house for the
majority of the day. I can refrain from drinking when I am
doing other things.

But I still do not not see this as an option. Once I get home,
I get drunk.

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:26:11 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
wrote:]
>
> I expect the reason why Nancy has told you to moderate your drinking
> rather than stop drinking altogether is because *you did not tell her
> that you were an alcoholic*. I suspect that you have also not given
> her other such essential info about yourself that could help her help
> you . I don't expect you ever will.

This is not correct. I have been being brutally honest with
her. Much as I have been here.

I don't see paying someone $106 per hour and then fooling around
with them. That would be stupid. (Not that drinking isn't)

Which is not to say that being honest is easy. For many of us,
the most difficult thing is to admit in public that we are
alcoholics. I tend to say "drinking problem", but I've got that
part pretty well covered.

You don't wake up on the floor at the local Arby's surrounded by
police and ambulance attendants, get a ride to the hospital, go
to a detox program, and then go bullshit a psychiatrist. Time
is getting a little short by then.

I haven't been holding anything back. I have been doing my best
to tell her everything.

The only reason Nancy would not know something about me is if
she is zoned out. I can see how that can happen. She has been
shrinking for a lot of years now.

I will see what the kids at UVa do.

> When you are dead, I hope someone will care enough about your dog to
> find him/her a good home.

I've got that covered also. My daughter gets the dog. I just
hope the house is neat.

[rosie read and post]

then harry, i think you need to follow your "instincts" and get a
psychiatrist that under stands this and will not undermine any
sobriety you can "muster up"!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

"if the only prayer you say in your whole life is 'thank you,'
that would suffice."
................................................m eckhart, 1260-1328



"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:n7m9svsib76uneqsns4glj62g7sen3dfj1@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:55:52 GMT, "rosie read and post"
> <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote:]
>
> > can you drink MODERATELY?
>
> I don't think so.
>
> It might be possible if I get myself out of the house for the
> majority of the day. I can refrain from drinking when I am
> doing other things.
>
> But I still do not not see this as an option. Once I get home,
> I get drunk.

[rosie read and post]

>
> This is not correct. I have been being brutally honest with
> her. Much as I have been here.
>

i believe you.

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

"if the only prayer you say in your whole life is 'thank you,'
that would suffice."
................................................m eckhart, 1260-1328



"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:inm9svk5fp57ag9s02172k7t1iltqluk41@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:26:11 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
> wrote:]
> >
> > I expect the reason why Nancy has told you to moderate your
drinking
> > rather than stop drinking altogether is because *you did not
tell her
> > that you were an alcoholic*. I suspect that you have also not
given
> > her other such essential info about yourself that could help her
help
> > you . I don't expect you ever will.
>
> This is not correct. I have been being brutally honest with
> her. Much as I have been here.
>
> I don't see paying someone $106 per hour and then fooling around
> with them. That would be stupid. (Not that drinking isn't)
>
> Which is not to say that being honest is easy. For many of us,
> the most difficult thing is to admit in public that we are
> alcoholics. I tend to say "drinking problem", but I've got that
> part pretty well covered.
>
> You don't wake up on the floor at the local Arby's surrounded by
> police and ambulance attendants, get a ride to the hospital, go
> to a detox program, and then go bullshit a psychiatrist. Time
> is getting a little short by then.
>
> I haven't been holding anything back. I have been doing my best
> to tell her everything.
>
> The only reason Nancy would not know something about me is if
> she is zoned out. I can see how that can happen. She has been
> shrinking for a lot of years now.
>
> I will see what the kids at UVa do.
>
> > When you are dead, I hope someone will care enough about your
dog to
> > find him/her a good home.
>
> I've got that covered also. My daughter gets the dog. I just
> hope the house is neat.

[Blue Moon]

On 25 Nov 2003 07:58:24 -0800, enlightenkks@yahoo.com (Kristine)
wrote:

>every single AA meeting I went to ended up to be a
>bunch of Bible thumpers.

Bible thumpers? If the bible even gets a mention I feel like walking
out. In my local group, which incidentally meet in a church hall, the
only time the bible comes up is in a negative context. On one
occasion some sick female mentioned the 10 commandments, but I've not
seen her again since.

That said, some areas of AA do seem more "religious" than others,
which is a shame because religion really has nothing to do with it.

--
Blue Moon

[Robert McGregor]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e35e5b97d68dd81a7754bf7880e3d983@news.teranew s.com...
> On 25 Nov 2003 07:58:24 -0800, enlightenkks@yahoo.com (Kristine)
> wrote:
>
> >every single AA meeting I went to ended up to be a
> >bunch of Bible thumpers.
>
> Bible thumpers? If the bible even gets a mention I feel like walking
> out. In my local group, which incidentally meet in a church hall, the
> only time the bible comes up is in a negative context. On one
> occasion some sick female mentioned the 10 commandments, but I've not
> seen her again since.
>
> That said, some areas of AA do seem more "religious" than others,
> which is a shame because religion really has nothing to do with it.
>
> --
> Blue Moon

"We give thanks to our Heavenly Father, who, through so many friends
and through so many means and channels, has allowed us to construct this
wonderful edifice of the spirit in which we are now dwelling. It seems as
though He had directed us to construct this cathedral whose foundations
already rest upon the corners of the earth. On its great floor we have
inscribed our Twelve Steps of recovery. On the side walls, the buttresses of
the A.A. Traditions have been set in place to contain us in unity for as
long as God may will it so. Eager hearts & hands have lifted the spire of
our cathedral into its place. That spire bears the name of service. May it
ever point straight upward toward God." Bill Wilson A.A. Comes Of Age p-234

[Blue Moon]

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:29:48 -0500, The Other Harry
<hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>This is not correct. I have been being brutally honest with
>her. Much as I have been here.
>
>I don't see paying someone $106 per hour and then fooling around
>with them. That would be stupid. (Not that drinking isn't)

Yet you're not doing the first thing she suggested, which is
maintaining a journal?

Journal in the head is not even worth the paper it's written on ...
especially if the person is drinking whilst writing it.

>Which is not to say that being honest is easy. For many of us,
>the most difficult thing is to admit in public that we are
>alcoholics. I tend to say "drinking problem", but I've got that
>part pretty well covered.

There's no need to admit it in public ... just to yourself, and to
those who are in a position to help. It's really nobody else's
business.

>You don't wake up on the floor at the local Arby's surrounded by
>police and ambulance attendants, get a ride to the hospital, go
>to a detox program, and then go bullshit a psychiatrist.

You'd be surprised how many of us do, or decide for ourselves what
they should/shouldn't need to know.

>The only reason Nancy would not know something about me is if
>she is zoned out. I can see how that can happen. She has been
>shrinking for a lot of years now.

If she even suspects that your hallucinations are not symptoms a very
serious and urgently life-threatening situation, she needs a fucking
shrink!

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:56:25 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> "We give thanks to our Heavenly Father, who, through so many friends
>and through so many means and channels, has allowed us to construct this
>wonderful edifice of the spirit in which we are now dwelling. It seems as
>though He had directed us to construct this cathedral whose foundations
>already rest upon the corners of the earth. On its great floor we have
>inscribed our Twelve Steps of recovery. On the side walls, the buttresses of
>the A.A. Traditions have been set in place to contain us in unity for as
>long as God may will it so. Eager hearts & hands have lifted the spire of
>our cathedral into its place. That spire bears the name of service. May it
>ever point straight upward toward God." Bill Wilson A.A. Comes Of Age p-234

I don't deny that AA has its fair share of pious individuals, or that
Bill Wilson was one of the worst in this regard.

However, for a balanced perspective it should also be noted that I've
seen almost as many agnostics recover from alcoholism as I've seen
religious people go out and drink.

--
Blue Moon

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:07:10 GMT, Blue Moon
<mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote:]

> Yet you're not doing the first thing she suggested, which is
> maintaining a journal?

I've got a journal. I've got a couple of them. They just
aren't anything she would be allowed to see.

Rosie's advice was good. Keep it simple. Start with the date
and then make a short entry.

> Journal in the head is not even worth the paper it's written on ...
> especially if the person is drinking whilst writing it.

No argument.

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:21:27 GMT, Blue Moon
<mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote:]

> However, for a balanced perspective it should also be noted that I've
> seen almost as many agnostics recover from alcoholism as I've seen
> religious people go out and drink.

That would be right.

[Robert McGregor]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9bd44714b3d015e16cd98f7d24c02fdd@news.teranew s.com...
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:56:25 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
> <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> > "We give thanks to our Heavenly Father, who, through so many
friends
> >and through so many means and channels, has allowed us to construct this
> >wonderful edifice of the spirit in which we are now dwelling. It seems as
> >though He had directed us to construct this cathedral whose foundations
> >already rest upon the corners of the earth. On its great floor we have
> >inscribed our Twelve Steps of recovery. On the side walls, the buttresses
of
> >the A.A. Traditions have been set in place to contain us in unity for as
> >long as God may will it so. Eager hearts & hands have lifted the spire of
> >our cathedral into its place. That spire bears the name of service. May
it
> >ever point straight upward toward God." Bill Wilson A.A. Comes Of Age
p-234
>
> I don't deny that AA has its fair share of pious individuals, or that
> Bill Wilson was one of the worst in this regard.
>
> However, for a balanced perspective it should also be noted that I've
> seen almost as many agnostics recover from alcoholism as I've seen
> religious people go out and drink.
>
> --
> Blue Moon

Blue, you snipped what I regard as pertinent.

"That said, some areas of AA do seem more "religious" than others, which is
a shame because religion really has nothing to do with it."

*Nothing* to do with it?

re·li·gion Pronunciation Key (r-ljn) n. Belief in and reverence for a
supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the
universe.

"Alcoholics Anonymous Traditions. For our group purpose there is but one
ultimate authority a loving God as He may express Himself in our group
conscience."

Blue, from birth, I was indoctrinated with a deep prejudice against Roman
Catholicism, some aspects of which were subsequently abandoned, some were
added, others reinforced.

Then, the night I got sober, there was a priest literally blocking the door
of AA. and I had to shake his hand to get in. That night, if I had come to
believe that spending the rest of that night with a faggot would ensure my
continued liberation from the desolate hell I was in, it is likely I would
have submitted. Willingness to go to any lengths to recover means
willingness to go to any lengths to recover. Fortunately, that is not an
imperative to go to every length to recover;-)

Come to think of it, very shortly afterwards I did spend a night with a
faggot. He happened to be a suffering alcoholic. Made him constant cups of
coffee and read that Big Book to him all bloody night, because no one on my
list of AA phone numbers was either prepared, or able, to "12 step" him. I
saw no point in attempting to "share" what I did not have, and certainly had
neither need nor inclination to share what I did have:).

Trying top be serious again, lying to potential recruits about the religious
aspects of AA is needless bullshit.that is quite possibly counter productive
in reaching those most in need of recovery. Some rock bottom drunks have
immaculate bullshit detectors

Ps, I suspect if you continue to read AA literature, you will eventually
discover that Bill Wilson pandered to the pious, as distinct from being one
of them. Piety however was real easy for me.

I squandered my psyche 'till nothing was left, then prayed, "go for it God,
take all of me";-)

Bob

[Blue Moon]

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:13:20 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>Blue, you snipped what I regard as pertinent.
>
>"That said, some areas of AA do seem more "religious" than others, which is
>a shame because religion really has nothing to do with it."
>
>*Nothing* to do with it?

Nothing to do with recovery from alcoholism.

As you'll note from your quote, >some areas of AA do seem more
"religious" than others...

Different "pockets" of AA fellowship have a greater or lesser extent
of religious overtone. I am thankful in that I sobered up in an area
that was less inclined towards religious nonsense. I never once had
to endure "the Lord's Prayer" during my initial stumblings along the
Steps and exploration of AA fellowship, therefore I can quite smugly
"prove" to anyone who's interested that the prayer itself is totally
irrelevant to recovery.

>Come to think of it, very shortly afterwards I did spend a night with a
>faggot. He happened to be a suffering alcoholic. Made him constant cups of
>coffee and read that Big Book to him all bloody night, because no one on my
>list of AA phone numbers was either prepared, or able, to "12 step" him.

You're right about the lack of willingness that has become endemic
within AA. Whilst on telephone service I experienced similar
difficulties. This reflects poorly on AA, and heavily on those few
who really are as willing as they profess to be.

However, surely "willingness to go to any lengths" must, by
definition, include willingness to endure religious nonsense if that's
really what it takes.

--
Blue Moon

[Gail]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:g289svkt7nkfib9qp93chdopkr9osga16d@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:42:24 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
> wrote:]
>
> > Have you seen Nancy this week ? If you have, what did she tell you to
> > do? Have you decided to stop seeing Nancy ?
>
> I had to change the appointment. I will see her next week.
>
> I go up and down about Nancy. I think much of her advice is
> good, but some of it seems wrong. Maybe I have already said
> this here (I tend to forget what I post where), but it bothers
> me that she sort of shrugged it off when I told her I was
> getting hallucinations.

Harry, please get some help. I can tell you that my stay in the hospital the
last two weeks was from mixing pills and then stopping them. I was having
some major dilusions and hallucinations. I had a spiritual awakening, I call
it that, while in there my first week. I can't even tell you right now all
that happened and what was in my head.
Please get some help before you have to suffer any more.


>
> As red lights go, that is a big one. Several people have now
> told me this, and I agree with that.
>
> It also bothers me that she does not think I need to quit
> drinking, just to moderate. Cut back.
>
> I agree that "moderating" in most areas of my life would be an
> improvement, but I don't see that when it comes to alcohol. My
> opinion is that I have to quit completely.
>
> Whether this goes to an "underlying issue" or just to the booze
> is something which is interesting to discuss here. But the fact
> that she would say that in the first place seems to me to
> reflect a lack of understanding about alcoholism.
>
> It could be that Nancy is a bit too old and laid back for me.
> She also might not know anything about this.
>

[The Other Harry]

[On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:07:11 GMT, Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com>
wrote:]

> Different "pockets" of AA fellowship have a greater or lesser extent
> of religious overtone. I am thankful in that I sobered up in an area
> that was less inclined towards religious nonsense. I never once had
> to endure "the Lord's Prayer" during my initial stumblings...

At my local group, after each meeting everyone always stands and
joins hands and says the Lord's Prayer.

I don't think that's so bad. But -- for me -- it did not make AA
any more approachable.

I agree that I need to work on getting some religion. That is one
of my own steps. But for them to do that made it like a requirement
to get thru the door. I'm not real good at requirements. I do
things only because I want to do them.

If you required me to eat a piece of roast beef, I would refuse.

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:00:41 -0600, "Gail"
<serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:]

> Harry, please get some help. I can tell you that my stay in the hospital the
> last two weeks was from mixing pills and then stopping them. I was having
> some major dilusions and hallucinations. I had a spiritual awakening, I call
> it that, while in there my first week. I can't even tell you right now all
> that happened and what was in my head.

> Please get some help before you have to suffer any more.

I am working on that.

We shall see what the kiddies at UVa Med Center come up with. They
will probably want to give me proctogical exam. I probably need
one. They are very nice.

But the notion of getting help is right.

Nice Turkey Day to all, including those of you who are not in the
US!

[Robert McGregor]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:qh0bsv80hd7f7s5ip2f4j4tpi9pka72ej4@4ax.com...

> Nice Turkey Day to all, including those of you who are not in the
> US!

Why do USAns admit to being turkeys on only one day every year?

Bob;-)

[rosie read and post]

"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vsatncpcuka7a1@corp.supernews.com...

> Please get some help before you have to suffer any more.
>
>


harry,
this is GREAT advise......................

[Gail]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bq429o$1u9crl$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:qh0bsv80hd7f7s5ip2f4j4tpi9pka72ej4@4ax.com...
>
> > Nice Turkey Day to all, including those of you who are not in the
> > US!
>
> Why do USAns admit to being turkeys on only one day every year?
>
> Bob;-)
>
>

That is so funny! I am just realizing I am a turkey and have been for quite
some time. I am cooking that turkey now.
Take care Robert.
Gobble Gobble! ;>)

Gail (Alias: Turkey)

[Blue Moon]

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:27:03 -0500, The Other Harry
<hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>I agree that I need to work on getting some religion. That is one
>of my own steps. But for them to do that made it like a requirement
>to get thru the door.

It's not.

--
Blue Moon