Re: Can someone help me?

[Blue Moon]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:57:23 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>> I will say it's difficult to recover from alcoholism whilst taking the
>> pills. The ADs can be an emotional escape, and recovery is all about
>> learning to face life sober ... that means dealing with emotions that
>> are not being depressed by ADs. So you're sober, but not recovered -
>> big difference, that even many AAs don't comprehend!

>total bullshit!

In whose opinion?

I've never yet met someone who's quit pills in recovery say that it's
anything but harder to recover whilst on the pills. That's not for
want of asking around, or listening.

SSRI antidepressants act on the serotonin levels in the brain. These
directly affect the emotional state of the individual. Recovery from
alcoholism is all about taking actions that help deal with different
emotional states. That means learning how to deal with emotions
SOBER, without those emotions being repressed by drugs.

I did not say recovery is impossible whilst on drugs, I said it is
more difficult. I stand by that assertion.

>you remain willfully "in the dark" about the action and effects of antidepressants!

Now who's talking bullshit? I've asked you time and again for a
rational discussion on the topic, and every single time you've run.

--
Blue Moon

[Bingo]

Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:46e916cfd0cf61ab87c03d2393775935@free.teranew s.com:

> On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:57:23 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
> <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> I will say it's difficult to recover from alcoholism whilst
>>> taking the pills. The ADs can be an emotional escape, and
>>> recovery is all about learning to face life sober ... that
>>> means dealing with emotions that are not being depressed by
>>> ADs. So you're sober, but not recovered - big difference,
>>> that even many AAs don't comprehend!
>
>>total bullshit!
>
> In whose opinion?
>
> I've never yet met someone who's quit pills in recovery say that
> it's anything but harder to recover whilst on the pills. That's
> not for want of asking around, or listening.
>
> SSRI antidepressants act on the serotonin levels in the brain.
> These directly affect the emotional state of the individual.
> Recovery from alcoholism is all about taking actions that help
> deal with different emotional states. That means learning how
> to deal with emotions SOBER, without those emotions being
> repressed by drugs.
>
> I did not say recovery is impossible whilst on drugs, I said it
> is more difficult. I stand by that assertion.
>
>>you remain willfully "in the dark" about the action and effects
>>of antidepressants!
>
> Now who's talking bullshit? I've asked you time and again for a
> rational discussion on the topic, and every single time you've
> run.
>

I take AD's to get something close to "balanced" in my emotional
state. If you think they get you high or happy or block emotions,
you've been seriously misinformed. They allow you to *FEEL* your
emotions, good and bad. WHen I'm not taking them, the whole world is
crap. I spent the first four years in recovery off AD's because of
some asshole nazi AA meeting, and those years were a complete waste
of time. It was a nice lady who grabbed me by the arm and told me
that her husband, in recovery, killed himself four years earler and
pleaded with me to get on medication, that I decided to do that.

The people who take ths hardline "no drugs of any kind" attitude are
usually the ones who DO NOT have major, debilitating depression and
have no idea how bad it is. Now I just tell them "thank you for
sharing."If they persist, I ask them if they're a doctor. That
usually shuts them up. BTW, I only take what I need. (When they
learn my family history, they usually offer me a whole bunch of
stuff!) If I had the AD's available to me when I was 15, I would
probably not have become an alcoholic.

[Robert McGregor]

"debs" <debs172@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:bdrgqu$e8k$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> The sort of people who tell you not to take prescribed ADs are usually the
> ones who come out with advice like 'pull yourself together' when you are
> depressed.
> Prescribed ADs are a good way for some people to live some sort of
'normal'
> life whether in the long term or the sort term. For some they are life
> saving.
>
> I know that some are able to come off ADs once they are sober because it
was
> the alcohol that was causing the depression, but for others it is not as
> simple.......oh if only life ever was that simple.
> If you need them and they have been prescribed thoughtfully by a GP who
has
> taken into account all circumstances, then continue with them for as long
as
> you need them. If a person who condemns ADs had to walk in the shoes of a
> depressed person for just one day then they would have a change of heart.
>
> debs
>

http://www.breggin.com/
"When trying to withdraw from many psychiatric drugs, patients can develop
serious and even life-threatening emotional and physical reactions. In
short, it is dangerous not only to start taking psychiatric drugs but also
can be hazardous to stop taking them. Therefore, withdrawal from psychiatric
drugs should be done under clinical supervision. Principles of drug
withdrawal are discussed in Your Drug May Be Your Problem: How and Why to
Stop Taking Psychiatric Medications , by Peter R. Breggin, MD and David
Cohen, PhD."

[rosie readandpost]

> I take AD's to get something close to "balanced" in my emotional
> state. If you think they get you high or happy or block emotions,
> you've been seriously misinformed.


somehow, i think some folks believe that those of us who take antidepressants have an EASIER TIME working the steps.
our "pills" do all the work!

its total nonsense, but you will find that the critics (just a couple) in here, are as vociferously ANTI as those in
your NAZI AA meetings!

[rosie readandpost]

If a person who condemns ADs had to walk in the shoes of a
> depressed person for just one day then they would have a change of heart.
>
> debs
>
>

you are soooooooooooooo correct!

[Robert McGregor]

"My Name" <no@e-mail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93AB59A88E8E5MyIdToken@walks.like.a.duck.. .
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> news:bdrl21$vuvf9$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de:
>
> > http://www.breggin.com/
> >"When trying to withdraw from many psychiatric drugs,
> >patients can develop
> > serious and even life-threatening emotional and physical
> > reactions. In short, it is dangerous not only to start
> > taking psychiatric drugs but also can be hazardous to stop
> > taking them. Therefore, withdrawal from psychiatric drugs
> > should be done under clinical supervision. Principles of
> > drug withdrawal are discussed in Your Drug May Be Your
> > Problem: How and Why to Stop Taking Psychiatric Medications
> > , by Peter R. Breggin, MD and David Cohen, PhD."
>
> Have _you_ read the book you mention?

No. What does it matter, the information bug ya, did it?

> The reason I ask is that by mentioning it, it looks as though
> you are reccomending it, however if you haven't actually read
> it, then mentioning it is a rather weak prop for your advocacy
> dontcha think,

Arguably, if I was indeed advocating the book.

>otherwise of course, it would be appropriate to
> mention, and of course it wouldn't have hurt to mention you've
> read it in the first place.
>

Given the absurdity of Usenet or the doctor being dependant on real
endorsement, let alone imagined endorsement from me, of course it wouldn't
have hurt you to find a real nit to pick, if nits is your thing.

Bob

[rosie readandpost]

> > Have _you_ read the book you mention?
>
> No. What does it matter.............................?
>


what does it matter?

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cwfMa.61683$fe.1397423@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> If a person who condemns ADs had to walk in the shoes of a
> > depressed person for just one day then they would have a change of
heart.
> >
> > debs
> >
> >
>
> you are soooooooooooooo correct!
>
>

You are so wrong!

http://www.breggin.com/
"In short, it is dangerous not only to start taking psychiatric drugs but
also can be hazardous to stop taking them."

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:KofMa.61680$fe.1397523@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > I take AD's to get something close to "balanced" in my emotional
> > state. If you think they get you high or happy or block emotions,
> > you've been seriously misinformed.
>
>
> somehow, i think some folks believe that those of us who take
antidepressants have an EASIER TIME working the steps.
> our "pills" do all the work!
>
> its total nonsense,

I agree! It's probably total nonsense.

Amongst your multitudes of heresy pastes, is there any documented evidence
at all showing how *you* ever accomplished step two, let alone bothered with
the rest of the A.A. steps?

Bob

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:_8mMa.162020$Xl.2578005@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Have _you_ read the book you mention?
> >
> > No. What does it matter.............................?
> >
>
>
> what does it matter?
>

I did imagine the doctors advice might bug you, hahahahahaha

Bob

Bob

[Robert McGregor]

hahaha allowed my spell checker free reign with hearsay, suppose it is one
of those God interventions;-)

Bob

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bdssl2$10ms14$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:KofMa.61680$fe.1397523@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > > I take AD's to get something close to "balanced" in my emotional
> > > state. If you think they get you high or happy or block emotions,
> > > you've been seriously misinformed.
> >
> >
> > somehow, i think some folks believe that those of us who take
> antidepressants have an EASIER TIME working the steps.
> > our "pills" do all the work!
> >
> > its total nonsense,
>
> I agree! It's probably total nonsense.
>
> Amongst your multitudes of heresy pastes, is there any documented evidence
> at all showing how *you* ever accomplished step two, let alone bothered
with
> the rest of the A.A. steps?
>
> Bob
>
>
>

[rosie readandpost]

>.................. is there any documented evidence
> at all showing how *you* ever accomplished step two, let alone bothered with
> the rest of the A.A. steps?
>
> Bob
>
>
>

LOL!
documented?
ROTFLMAO!

[rosie readandpost]

>
> I did imagine the doctors advice might bug you, hahahahahaha
>
> Bob
>


ah no...........................your recommendations and references are essentially ignored by me bob.
your credibility is quite suspect here and in A.R.AA., so why would i read your OUTDATED recommendations.
and now to find out that you haven't even read the book........................who is doing your highlighting ?

ROTFLMAO!

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:m%mMa.176847$jT4.3139238@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >.................. is there any documented evidence
> > at all showing how *you* ever accomplished step two, let alone bothered
with
> > the rest of the A.A. steps?
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
>
> LOL!
> documented?
> ROTFLMAO!
>
Yeah, documented. Must admit, I enjoy the irony too.

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
news:MU0Fa.72106$jT4.1515242@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> i stay in ARAA (with an active killfile) to share my experience, strength
>and hope

What experience?
Given my obvious bias, I thought it fair to give you a chance to do more
than roll your fat arse around the floor. All I've noticed you post is
smarm, hearsay, drug promotion, and sanctimoneus resolutions to stop
bickering.

Bob

Bob

[Robert McGregor]

"My Name" <no@e-mail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93ABC1458ACF1MyIdToken@walks.like.a.duck.. .
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> news:bdsqno$10nsuo$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de:
>
> >
> >"My Name" <no@e-mail.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns93AB59A88E8E5MyIdToken@walks.like.a.duck.. .
> >> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> >> news:bdrl21$vuvf9$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de:
> >>
> >> > http://www.breggin.com/
> >> >"When trying to withdraw from many psychiatric drugs,
> >> >patients can develop
> >> > serious and even life-threatening emotional and physical
> >> > reactions. In short, it is dangerous not only to start
> >> > taking psychiatric drugs but also can be hazardous to
> >> > stop taking them. Therefore, withdrawal from psychiatric
> >> > drugs should be done under clinical supervision.
> >> > Principles of drug withdrawal are discussed in Your Drug
> >> > May Be Your Problem: How and Why to Stop Taking
> >> > Psychiatric Medications , by Peter R. Breggin, MD and
> >> > David Cohen, PhD."
> >>
> >> Have _you_ read the book you mention?
> >
> > No. What does it matter,
>
> If you don't know...
>
> > the information bug ya, did it?
>
> No.
>
> >> The reason I ask is that by mentioning it, it looks as
> >> though you are reccomending it, however if you haven't
> >> actually read it, then mentioning it is a rather weak prop
> >> for your advocacy dontcha think,
> >
> > Arguably, if I was indeed advocating the book.
>
> That was the question allright.
>
> >> otherwise of course, it would be appropriate to
> >> mention, and of course it wouldn't have hurt to mention
> >> you've read it in the first place.
> >>
> >
> > Given the absurdity of Usenet or the doctor being dependant
> > on real endorsement, let alone imagined endorsement from
> > me, of course it wouldn't have hurt you to find a real nit
> > to pick, if nits is your thing.
>
> Sorry Bob, the above eludes me.

Wear your mind out navel gazing on imagined endorsement? Not to worry:) I
wasn't even purporting the URL page I cited as anything other than as yet
undisclosed news in a newsgroup.

>
> --
> You know that some people are different.
> Now ain't that a crying shame.
> Wouldn't it be a real drag, if we were all the same.
> Savoy Brown

Yep

Bob

[My Name]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:bdt5ik$10gil7$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de:

> Wear your mind out navel gazing on imagined endorsement?

An assumption on your part? You'll note, I didn't make any.

> Not to worry:) I wasn't even purporting the URL page I
> cited as anything other than as yet undisclosed news in a
> newsgroup.

Right.

--
You know that some people are different.
Now ain't that a crying shame.
Wouldn't it be a real drag, if we were all the same.
Savoy Brown

[Robert McGregor]

"My Name" <no@e-mail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93ABCA20BD15FMyIdToken@walks.like.a.duck.. .
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> news:bdt5ik$10gil7$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de:
>
> > Wear your mind out navel gazing on imagined endorsement?
>
> An assumption on your part? You'll note, I didn't make any.
>

Jeez, you are now assuming that I assumed??

This is getting so deep, intense, and meaningful; it may be best discussed
in a chat room!

But, the sun is still rising.

CYA

Bob.

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 05:42:06 GMT, Bingo <bill@microsoft.com> wrote:

>I take AD's to get something close to "balanced" in my emotional
>state. If you think they get you high or happy or block emotions,
>you've been seriously misinformed. They allow you to *FEEL* your
>emotions, good and bad. WHen I'm not taking them, the whole world is
>crap.

I'm not at all surprised to hear this. What you're saying is you
depend on the ADs to keep from feeling crap. Isn't that what
alcoholics do with alcohol? Start out taking the alcohol to feel
good, and end up depending on it to keep from feeling bad?

>The people who take ths hardline "no drugs of any kind" attitude are
>usually the ones who DO NOT have major, debilitating depression and
>have no idea how bad it is.

Some people I know have experience of depression, with and without
ADs, and with and without recovery from alcoholism. I'm one of 'em.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:30:23 +0000 (UTC), "debs"
<debs172@btinternet.com> wrote:

>If a person who condemns ADs had to walk in the shoes of a
>depressed person for just one day then they would have a change of heart.

I condemn them for their curiously addictive qualities despite being
allegedly non-addictive. And there's nobody who's known me for long
would say I've not been depressed. There's very few sober alcoholics
who've not felt depression.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 12:46:34 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>somehow, i think some folks believe that those of us who take antidepressants have an EASIER TIME working the steps.
>our "pills" do all the work!

On the contrary, the Steps would be almost impossible to do fearlessly
and thoroughly whilst the individual is chemically running from
reality in any way.

--
Blue Moon

[My Name]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
news:WFrMa.178147$jT4.3168102@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:

>> Right.
>>
>>
>
>
>:)

;)

--
You know that some people are different.
Now ain't that a crying shame.
Wouldn't it be a real drag, if we were all the same.
Savoy Brown

[rosie readandpost]

There's very few sober alcoholics
> who've not felt depression.
>
> --
> Blue Moon



again, two different kinds of depression.
SITUATIONAL (being an alcoholic, for instance) and the other type is a CHEMICAL IMBALANCE. (considered a mental illness)

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

the mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief
in injustice and tragedy. what the caterpillar calls
the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly.
......................................r. bach




"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:b3896233067cf3a5d5fbb9d6a75f06f9@free.teranew s.com...
> On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:30:23 +0000 (UTC), "debs"
> <debs172@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> >If a person who condemns ADs had to walk in the shoes of a
> >depressed person for just one day then they would have a change of heart.
>
> I condemn them for their curiously addictive qualities despite being
> allegedly non-addictive. And there's nobody who's known me for long
> would say I've not been depressed. There's very few sober alcoholics
> who've not felt depression.
>
> --
> Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:57:25 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

> There's very few sober alcoholics
>> who've not felt depression.
>
>again, two different kinds of depression.
>SITUATIONAL (being an alcoholic, for instance) and the other type is a CHEMICAL IMBALANCE. (considered a mental illness)

The symptoms can be pretty much the same in both cases, no?

How is the chemical imbalance determined as being chemical imbalance,
rather than unresolved situational or ongoing situational /
behavioural?

--
Blue Moon

[Robert McGregor]

"My Name" <no@e-mail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93AC3F35590A9MyIdToken@walks.like.a.duck.. .
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> news:bdt98a$1059ni$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de:
>
> >
> >"My Name" <no@e-mail.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns93ABCA20BD15FMyIdToken@walks.like.a.duck.. .
> >> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> >> news:bdt5ik$10gil7$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de:
> >>
> >> > Wear your mind out navel gazing on imagined endorsement?
> >>
> >> An assumption on your part? You'll note, I didn't make
> >> any.
> >>
> >
> > Jeez, you are now assuming that I assumed??
>
> Whatsamatta ya mis da question mark?

Nope, that's why there were two, seems yourself ignored the first one
>
> > This is getting so deep, intense, and meaningful; it may be
> > best discussed in a chat room!
> >
> > But, the sun is still rising.
> >
> > CYA
> >
> > Bob.
>
> Same here hasta. Er, I should say hasn't started to yet.

Spose that's what you get for living behind the times;-)

Bob, on top again, down under.

[My Name]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:be304p$n339$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de:

>> >> > Wear your mind out navel gazing on imagined
>> >> > endorsement?
>> >>
>> >> An assumption on your part? You'll note, I didn't make
>> >> any.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Jeez, you are now assuming that I assumed??
>>
>> Whatsamatta ya mis da question mark?
>
> Nope, that's why there were two, seems yourself ignored the
> first one

(this is silly)
I'll stop now.
Btw, what are chundering men anyway?

--
You know that some people are different.
Now ain't that a crying shame.
Wouldn't it be a real drag, if we were all the same.
Savoy Brown

[Dan McGown]

Try going to http://homepages.tig.com.au/~mcgarry/paul/chunder.htm

or just take my word for it that some people like to drink until they barf
and call themselves "vomiteurs.'

It's fairly gross.

> Btw, what are chundering men anyway?
>
> --
> You know that some people are different.
> Now ain't that a crying shame.
> Wouldn't it be a real drag, if we were all the same.
> Savoy Brown

[My Name]

"Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in
news:4UeNa.9931$Hw.6892071@news2.news.adelphia.net :

>> Btw, what are chundering men anyway?

> Try going to
> http://homepages.tig.com.au/~mcgarry/paul/chunder.htm
>
> or just take my word for it that some people like to drink
> until they barf and call themselves "vomiteurs.'
>
> It's fairly gross.

Ah, one-UP-manship.
I'll pass.
Thanx for the ah, enlightenment. <--Yeah, that's it.

--
You know that some people are different.
Now ain't that a crying shame.
Wouldn't it be a real drag, if we were all the same.
Savoy Brown

[Bingo]

Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:837fa38692070ff4276fa7243efe66cd@free.teranew s.com:

> On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 05:42:06 GMT, Bingo <bill@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I take AD's to get something close to "balanced" in my emotional
>>state. If you think they get you high or happy or block
>>emotions, you've been seriously misinformed. They allow you to
>>*FEEL* your emotions, good and bad. WHen I'm not taking them,
>>the whole world is crap.
>
> I'm not at all surprised to hear this. What you're saying is
> you depend on the ADs to keep from feeling crap. Isn't that
> what alcoholics do with alcohol? Start out taking the alcohol
> to feel good, and end up depending on it to keep from feeling
> bad?

I left a word out there. Should have been "feeling *like* crap"
and no, it's just opposite. WHen I'm not taking them, I'm 50
percent numb and 50 percent rage. Even when I explode at some
stupid thing I wonder Why did I do that? I really wasn't that
important. The AD's allow me to *correctly* dicern what's
important and what isn't. Did alcohol ever do that for you? Nevr
did for me.

>
>>The people who take ths hardline "no drugs of any kind" attitude
>>are usually the ones who DO NOT have major, debilitating
>>depression and have no idea how bad it is.
>
> Some people I know have experience of depression, with and
> without ADs, and with and without recovery from alcoholism. I'm
> one of 'em.
>

Everybody has depression, but it's a matter of degree. I had to
chuckle at those commercials that say if you've felt this way for
two weeks to get help. Two weeks? How about 30 years? BTW, when
this runs in your family, you don't play Russian Roulette with it.
I've had three suicides, two long-term hospitalizations and two
other unsucessful attempts (all different people) in my family
(stretching back one generation, probably more I don't know about.)
Much of this was kept from me until just a few years ago.

[Bingo]

Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:f52fec4a2063d17e93e2c256d3c02b8d@free.teranew s.com:

> On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:57:25 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
> <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> There's very few sober alcoholics
>>> who've not felt depression.
>>
>>again, two different kinds of depression.
>>SITUATIONAL (being an alcoholic, for instance) and the other
>>type is a CHEMICAL IMBALANCE. (considered a mental illness)
>
> The symptoms can be pretty much the same in both cases, no?
>
> How is the chemical imbalance determined as being chemical
> imbalance, rather than unresolved situational or ongoing
> situational / behavioural?
>

Someone who is situationally depressed can probably get over it
with therapy, meetings, maybe a lifestyle change or two. Those of
us who done ALL of that many times over, we're chemical. I had
clinical depression from age 12, six years before I started
drinking. From age 15 until about a year ago, I counted no less
than 17 therapists, all different types, group and non-group, for
alcoholis, non-alcoholics, children of alcohlics, so forth and so
on. Essentially, no change, or only temporary. Only the
medication (the 11th one I tried) made a difference. Even a
couple of therapists told me that if you don't treat clinical
depression medically, then the therapy is a waste of money.

[rosie readandpost]

>>> You can find out more about Dr Breggin at www.Quackwatch.org

HEY, bob.............................any more citations you want to put up?



LOL!
thanks

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

rash indeed is he who reckons on the morrow, or
haply on days beyond it; for tomorrow is not, until
today is past.
...............................sophocles (406 BC)



"Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message news:Xns93AEF034A4E64billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
> news:Z5nMa.176880$jT4.3139705@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>
> >
> >>
> >> I did imagine the doctors advice might bug you, hahahahahaha
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >
> >
> > ah no...........................your recommendations and
> > references are essentially ignored by me bob. your credibility
> > is quite suspect here and in A.R.AA., so why would i read your
> > OUTDATED recommendations. and now to find out that you haven't
> > even read the book........................who is doing your
> > highlighting ?
> >
> > ROTFLMAO!
> >
> >
> >
>
> You can find out more about Dr Breggin at www.Quackwatch.org
>
> A short excert (as long as we're cutting and pasting):
>
> Breggin is not certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and
> Neurology, which is the recognized agency for certifying
> psychiatrists.
>
> Having completed three years of psychiatric training, Breggin is
> entitled to call himself a psychiatrist or a "specialist in
> psychiatry." Until 1996, the Maryland Board of Quality Assurance
> maintained a lists of "identified" specialists. Anyone who
> completed an approved training program was eligible for listing. No
> special examination or additional qualifications were required.
> To become licensed in the United States, every physician must pass
> an examination given by the National Board of Medical Examiners or
> an equivalent examination by a state licensing board. Thus being a
> "diplomate" of the National Board of Medical Examiners means
> nothing more than the fact that the doctor has passed a standard
> licensing exam. Most resumés I have seen do not list this
> credential.
>
> The American Board of Forensic Examiners is not recognized by the
> American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS), which is the
> recognized standard-setting organization. ABMS offers subspecialty
> certification in forensic psychiatry and forensic pathology,
> neither of which Breggin has achieved.
>
> Only one of the six journals with which Breggin has been affiliated
> is significant enough to be listed in MEDLINE, the National Library
> of Medicine's principal online database.
>
> On September 5, 2002, I found that Breggin had 33 citations listed
> in MEDLINE. None of these publications appears to be a research
> report. Eight were letters to the editor, two were books, and most
> of the rest were expressions of his opinion on various psychiatric
> topics.
>

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3hsNa.73538$fe.1644097@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >>> You can find out more about Dr Breggin at www.Quackwatch.org
>
> HEY, bob.............................any more citations you want to put
up?
>
>
>
> LOL!
> thanks
http://www.anonpress.org/bb/Page_58.htm
"Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give
themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are
constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. "
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
Message-ID: < wkHa.22568$fe.447991@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:31:22 GMT

>YES, whatever works!
>i belong to the "old school" of counting sobriety from the LAST
>drink/drug,
>but i don't expect
>everyone to do so, just because i did!

>it works for me!
"rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<ZPSl5.19140$E05.340458@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>

>i am thinking about asking my pdoc to increase my celexa to
>60mg..........anyone else in here have good results with that dosage?
>my 40mg seems to be "pooping out"...........

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:A98Ka.109221$Xl.2092045@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> i will never be recovered..............................


Those citations enough to give Pauly a first hand look at denial?

Bob

[rosie readandpost]

>
>
> Those citations enough to give Pauly a first hand look at denial?
>
> Bob
>

be a good example bob, its "attraction" remember?

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

rash indeed is he who reckons on the morrow, or
haply on days beyond it; for tomorrow is not, until
today is past.
...............................sophocles (406 BC)



"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:be865h$28stq$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3hsNa.73538$fe.1644097@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > >>> You can find out more about Dr Breggin at www.Quackwatch.org
> >
> > HEY, bob.............................any more citations you want to put
> up?
> >
> >
> >
> > LOL!
> > thanks
> http://www.anonpress.org/bb/Page_58.htm
> "Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give
> themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are
> constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. "
> <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> Message-ID: < wkHa.22568$fe.447991@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:31:22 GMT
>
> >YES, whatever works!
> >i belong to the "old school" of counting sobriety from the LAST
> >drink/drug,
> >but i don't expect
> >everyone to do so, just because i did!
>
> >it works for me!
> "rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:<ZPSl5.19140$E05.340458@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>
>
> >i am thinking about asking my pdoc to increase my celexa to
> >60mg..........anyone else in here have good results with that dosage?
> >my 40mg seems to be "pooping out"...........
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:A98Ka.109221$Xl.2092045@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > i will never be recovered..............................
>
>
> Those citations enough to give Pauly a first hand look at denial?
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>

[rosie readandpost]

bob,
let it go, sweetie........................let it go.


--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

rash indeed is he who reckons on the morrow, or
haply on days beyond it; for tomorrow is not, until
today is past.
...............................sophocles (406 BC)



"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:be8f4q$28ups$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93AEF3FA2EDCCbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> > Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in
> > news:f52fec4a2063d17e93e2c256d3c02b8d@free.teranew s.com:
> >
> > > On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:57:25 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
> > > <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> There's very few sober alcoholics
> > >>> who've not felt depression.
> > >>
> > >>again, two different kinds of depression.
> > >>SITUATIONAL (being an alcoholic, for instance) and the other
> > >>type is a CHEMICAL IMBALANCE. (considered a mental illness)
> > >
> > > The symptoms can be pretty much the same in both cases, no?
> > >
> > > How is the chemical imbalance determined as being chemical
> > > imbalance, rather than unresolved situational or ongoing
> > > situational / behavioural?
> > >
> >
> > Someone who is situationally depressed can probably get over it
> > with therapy, meetings, maybe a lifestyle change or two. Those of
> > us who done ALL of that many times over, we're chemical. I had
> > clinical depression from age 12, six years before I started
> > drinking. From age 15 until about a year ago, I counted no less
> > than 17 therapists, all different types, group and non-group, for
> > alcoholis, non-alcoholics, children of alcohlics, so forth and so
> > on. Essentially, no change, or only temporary. Only the
> > medication (the 11th one I tried) made a difference. Even a
> > couple of therapists told me that if you don't treat clinical
> > depression medically, then the therapy is a waste of money.
>
> Wow, "we're chemical!" Great rationalisation for inept self centredness,
> taken to the
> extreme. How do you classify the rest of humanity, mineral?
>
>
> http://www.apa.org/releases/antidep.html
> Study Finds Psychotherapy and Anti-Depressants Equally Effective in Treating
> Severely Depressed Primary-Care Patients
>
> WASHINGTON - Researchers comparing the effectiveness of treating major
> depression with either antidepressant medication or psychotherapy noted no
> difference in the success of the two treatment methods after an eight-month
> clinical investigation.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>

[Moonraker]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:be8f4q$28ups$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de...

> Great rationalisation for inept self centredness, taken to the extreme.
>How do you classify the rest of humanity, mineral?<

Aren't the basic "categories" --animal, mineral, vegetable--? I'd say we
have a few posters here who are a toss-up between vegetable and animal. You
know, dumb as a houseplant and stubborn as a mule.

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eoWNa.178221$Xl.2925745@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> bob,
> let it go, sweetie........................let it go.
>
"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
news:MU0Fa.72106$jT4.1515242@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> i stay in ARAA (with an active killfile) to share my experience, strength
and hope and to remind those who come, that
> these few folks ARE NOT a sample of the loving understanding, that can be
found in AA and other support groups!

[rosie readandpost]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:bed5i9$3nikr$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de...

> > bob,
> > let it go, sweetie........................let it go.
>

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uXoOa.89998$fe.1834050@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bed5i9$3nikr$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de...
>
> > > bob,
> > > let it go, sweetie........................let it go.
> >
>
Nah, you're the one with constipation, do your own letting go poopski.
http://blank.org/link/?q=1057632526


Bob

[rosie readandpost]

> >
> > > > bob,
> > > > let it go, sweetie........................let it go.
> > >

[Moonraker]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bedbil$3t89l$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:uXoOa.89998$fe.1834050@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bed5i9$3nikr$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de...
> >
> > > > bob,
> > > > let it go, sweetie........................let it go.
> > >
> >
> Nah, you're the one with constipation, do your own letting go poopski.
> http://blank.org/link/?q=1057632526
>
>
> Bob
>


You are an evil man, McGregor! I love it!!!

118 posts where RRAP admits to being full of shit. Priceless!

[Bingo]

mfoco_uk@yahoo.co.uk (Blue Moon) wrote in
news:7747c27d.0307070649.5bd71d77@posting.google.c om:

> Bingo <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:<Xns93AEED85CCD8billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199.17>...
>> Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:837fa38692070ff4276fa7243efe66cd@free.teranew s.com:
>
>> >>I take AD's to get something close to "balanced" in my
>> >>emotional state. If you think they get you high or happy or
>> >>block emotions, you've been seriously misinformed. They
>> >>allow you to *FEEL* your emotions, good and bad. WHen I'm
>> >>not taking them, the whole world is crap.
>> >
>> > I'm not at all surprised to hear this. What you're saying is
>> > you depend on the ADs to keep from feeling crap. Isn't that
>> > what alcoholics do with alcohol? Start out taking the
>> > alcohol to feel good, and end up depending on it to keep from
>> > feeling bad?
>>
>> I left a word out there. Should have been "feeling *like*
>> crap" and no, it's just opposite. WHen I'm not taking them,
>> I'm 50 percent numb and 50 percent rage. Even when I explode
>> at some stupid thing I wonder Why did I do that? I really
>> wasn't that important.
>
> So what you're saying is, you depend on the ADs to keep from
> feeling crap (or "like crap", or "crappy", or just "bad"). You
> have a dependency on the ADs to keep feeling good, and when you
> don't feel good you try to change the ADs to compensate.

Did I ever so feeling good? I feel (reasonably) Normal. And no, I
don't 'change the AD's to compensate' Don't know where you got
that. And as I;ve said, I've tried everything else: years or
meetings, years of therapy, religion, exercise, yoga, several
flavors of meditation. Nothing worked. Some of it helped
sometimes, but ultimately, back into the pit. If you of something
magic formula I haven't tried, spill it!

>
>> The AD's allow me to *correctly* dicern what's
>> important and what isn't.
>
> How do you know your perception, under the influence of
> mind-altering chemicals, is correct?
>
>> Did alcohol ever do that for you?
>


> Sure. When alcohol worked FOR me, I perceived all sorts of
> nonsense as being the right thing to be doing. It was only when
> I wasn't drinking that things would get bad.
>
Nonsense is what I do when I'm NOT taking medication. I have dents
in my car from a road rage incident a couple years back, caused
largely by being OFF medication. If you my level of illness and
can manage without medication, you're either very lucky to have
found something else that works or you're a time bomb! I did know
a Chinese lady who was at least as bad as me a few years ago and
I'd see her at meetings looking like a suicide any minute. WHen she
hadn't shown up for a couple of months I feared the worst. By she
re-appeared a year later looking and sounding happy! She got back
to her core beliefs and went to a Buddist temple every day and that
did the trick.

[Bingo]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:NLWNa.32534$9s2.2611@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com:

>
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> message
> news:be8f4q$28ups$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de...
>
>> Great rationalisation for inept self centredness, taken to the
>> extreme.
>>How do you classify the rest of humanity, mineral?<
>
> Aren't the basic "categories" --animal, mineral, vegetable--?
> I'd say we have a few posters here who are a toss-up between
> vegetable and animal. You know, dumb as a houseplant and
> stubborn as a mule.
>
>
>
>

My IQ is 143, in case you're wondering! I won't argue with the
mule thing though. My parent's fault!

[rosie readandpost]

> If you my level of illness and
> can manage without medication, you're either very lucky to have
> found something else that works or you're a time bomb!


that is exactly what is going on!
better duck!
;)

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie
if you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging.
....................................will rogers




"Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message news:Xns93B29D4EC7D24billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> mfoco_uk@yahoo.co.uk (Blue Moon) wrote in
> news:7747c27d.0307070649.5bd71d77@posting.google.c om:
>
> > Bingo <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:<Xns93AEED85CCD8billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199.17>...
> >> Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >> news:837fa38692070ff4276fa7243efe66cd@free.teranew s.com:
> >
> >> >>I take AD's to get something close to "balanced" in my
> >> >>emotional state. If you think they get you high or happy or
> >> >>block emotions, you've been seriously misinformed. They
> >> >>allow you to *FEEL* your emotions, good and bad. WHen I'm
> >> >>not taking them, the whole world is crap.
> >> >
> >> > I'm not at all surprised to hear this. What you're saying is
> >> > you depend on the ADs to keep from feeling crap. Isn't that
> >> > what alcoholics do with alcohol? Start out taking the
> >> > alcohol to feel good, and end up depending on it to keep from
> >> > feeling bad?
> >>
> >> I left a word out there. Should have been "feeling *like*
> >> crap" and no, it's just opposite. WHen I'm not taking them,
> >> I'm 50 percent numb and 50 percent rage. Even when I explode
> >> at some stupid thing I wonder Why did I do that? I really
> >> wasn't that important.
> >
> > So what you're saying is, you depend on the ADs to keep from
> > feeling crap (or "like crap", or "crappy", or just "bad"). You
> > have a dependency on the ADs to keep feeling good, and when you
> > don't feel good you try to change the ADs to compensate.
>
> Did I ever so feeling good? I feel (reasonably) Normal. And no, I
> don't 'change the AD's to compensate' Don't know where you got
> that. And as I;ve said, I've tried everything else: years or
> meetings, years of therapy, religion, exercise, yoga, several
> flavors of meditation. Nothing worked. Some of it helped
> sometimes, but ultimately, back into the pit. If you of something
> magic formula I haven't tried, spill it!
>
> >
> >> The AD's allow me to *correctly* dicern what's
> >> important and what isn't.
> >
> > How do you know your perception, under the influence of
> > mind-altering chemicals, is correct?
> >
> >> Did alcohol ever do that for you?
> >
>
>
> > Sure. When alcohol worked FOR me, I perceived all sorts of
> > nonsense as being the right thing to be doing. It was only when
> > I wasn't drinking that things would get bad.
> >
> Nonsense is what I do when I'm NOT taking medication. I have dents
> in my car from a road rage incident a couple years back, caused
> largely by being OFF medication. If you my level of illness and
> can manage without medication, you're either very lucky to have
> found something else that works or you're a time bomb! I did know
> a Chinese lady who was at least as bad as me a few years ago and
> I'd see her at meetings looking like a suicide any minute. WHen she
> hadn't shown up for a couple of months I feared the worst. By she
> re-appeared a year later looking and sounding happy! She got back
> to her core beliefs and went to a Buddist temple every day and that
> did the trick.

[Bingo]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
news:8AFOa.194125$jT4.3637088@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:

>> If you my level of illness and
>> can manage without medication, you're either very lucky to have
>> found something else that works or you're a time bomb!
>
>
> that is exactly what is going on!
> better duck!
> ;)
>
> --
> read and post daily, it works!
> rosie
> if you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop
> digging.
> ....................................will rogers
>
>
>
>
> "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93B29D4EC7D24billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
>> mfoco_uk@yahoo.co.uk (Blue Moon) wrote in
>> news:7747c27d.0307070649.5bd71d77@posting.google.c om:
>>
>> > Bingo <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> > news:<Xns93AEED85CCD8billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199.17>...
>> >> Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> >> news:837fa38692070ff4276fa7243efe66cd@free.teranew s.com:
>> >
>> >> >>I take AD's to get something close to "balanced" in my
>> >> >>emotional state. If you think they get you high or happy
>> >> >>or block emotions, you've been seriously misinformed.
>> >> >>They allow you to *FEEL* your emotions, good and bad.
>> >> >>WHen I'm not taking them, the whole world is crap.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm not at all surprised to hear this. What you're saying
>> >> > is you depend on the ADs to keep from feeling crap. Isn't
>> >> > that what alcoholics do with alcohol? Start out taking
>> >> > the alcohol to feel good, and end up depending on it to
>> >> > keep from feeling bad?
>> >>
>> >> I left a word out there. Should have been "feeling *like*
>> >> crap" and no, it's just opposite. WHen I'm not taking them,
>> >> I'm 50 percent numb and 50 percent rage. Even when I
>> >> explode at some stupid thing I wonder Why did I do that? I
>> >> really wasn't that important.
>> >
>> > So what you're saying is, you depend on the ADs to keep from
>> > feeling crap (or "like crap", or "crappy", or just "bad").
>> > You have a dependency on the ADs to keep feeling good, and
>> > when you don't feel good you try to change the ADs to
>> > compensate.
>>
>> Did I ever so feeling good? I feel (reasonably) Normal. And
>> no, I don't 'change the AD's to compensate' Don't know where
>> you got that. And as I;ve said, I've tried everything else:
>> years or meetings, years of therapy, religion, exercise, yoga,
>> several flavors of meditation. Nothing worked. Some of it
>> helped sometimes, but ultimately, back into the pit. If you of
>> something magic formula I haven't tried, spill it!
>>
>> >
>> >> The AD's allow me to *correctly* dicern what's
>> >> important and what isn't.
>> >
>> > How do you know your perception, under the influence of
>> > mind-altering chemicals, is correct?
>> >
>> >> Did alcohol ever do that for you?
>> >
>>
>>
>> > Sure. When alcohol worked FOR me, I perceived all sorts of
>> > nonsense as being the right thing to be doing. It was only
>> > when I wasn't drinking that things would get bad.
>> >
>> Nonsense is what I do when I'm NOT taking medication. I have
>> dents in my car from a road rage incident a couple years back,
>> caused largely by being OFF medication. If you my level of
>> illness and can manage without medication, you're either very
>> lucky to have found something else that works or you're a time
>> bomb! I did know a Chinese lady who was at least as bad as me
>> a few years ago and I'd see her at meetings looking like a
>> suicide any minute. WHen she hadn't shown up for a couple of
>> months I feared the worst. By she re-appeared a year later
>> looking and sounding happy! She got back to her core beliefs
>> and went to a Buddist temple every day and that did the trick.
>
>
>

Seems I've been doing a lot of ducking lately. Well, nothing works
for everybody. If it did, we could put it in the water!
Interesting that back in the 1850's they thought found a cure for
alcoholism: heroin. (True fact)

[rosie readandpost]

> Seems I've been doing a lot of ducking lately. Well, nothing works
> for everybody. If it did, we could put it in the water!
> Interesting that back in the 1850's they thought found a cure for
> alcoholism: heroin. (True fact)


yup, just as dumb as: the drug ATIVAN was to suppose to replace VALIUM, after the pharmaceutical companies found out
how terribly addictive valium was, and how difficult withdrawal was.

ATIVAN? just as bad!

rosie

[Bingo]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
news:eBTOa.191827$Xl.3195410@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:

>
>> Seems I've been doing a lot of ducking lately. Well, nothing
>> works for everybody. If it did, we could put it in the water!
>> Interesting that back in the 1850's they thought found a cure
>> for alcoholism: heroin. (True fact)
>
>
> yup, just as dumb as: the drug ATIVAN was to suppose to replace
> VALIUM, after the pharmaceutical companies found out how
> terribly addictive valium was, and how difficult withdrawal was.
>
> ATIVAN? just as bad!
>
> rosie
>
>
>
>

Yes, I took Ativan at night a few years ago for sleeping problems.
Then I did some research on it and dropped it. Now I just put on
C-SPAN.

All those "benzo" class drugs are pretty scary. I took valium when
I was a teenager for six months for severe anxiety (precursor to
depression). One day I just said "enough" and stopped (dangerous to
do, I found out later; people have seizures). I also took Oxycontin
for back spasms, didn't do much so I stopped. There were a few
other drugs in there that were highly addictive that I never got
addicted to, so I consider myself pretty lucky that way. Just
alcohol, probably the worst.

[Robert McGregor]

"Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93B29E5F5454Dbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> news:be8f4q$28ups$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de:
>
> >
> > "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns93AEF3FA2EDCCbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> >> Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >> news:f52fec4a2063d17e93e2c256d3c02b8d@free.teranew s.com:
> >>
> >> > On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:57:25 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
> >> > <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> There's very few sober alcoholics
> >> >>> who've not felt depression.
> >> >>
> >> >>again, two different kinds of depression.
> >> >>SITUATIONAL (being an alcoholic, for instance) and the other
> >> >>type is a CHEMICAL IMBALANCE. (considered a mental illness)
> >> >
> >> > The symptoms can be pretty much the same in both cases, no?
> >> >
> >> > How is the chemical imbalance determined as being chemical
> >> > imbalance, rather than unresolved situational or ongoing
> >> > situational / behavioural?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Someone who is situationally depressed can probably get over it
> >> with therapy, meetings, maybe a lifestyle change or two. Those
> >> of us who done ALL of that many times over, we're chemical. I
> >> had clinical depression from age 12, six years before I started
> >> drinking. From age 15 until about a year ago, I counted no
> >> less than 17 therapists, all different types, group and
> >> non-group, for alcoholis, non-alcoholics, children of
> >> alcohlics, so forth and so on. Essentially, no change, or only
> >> temporary. Only the medication (the 11th one I tried) made a
> >> difference. Even a couple of therapists told me that if you
> >> don't treat clinical depression medically, then the therapy is
> >> a waste of money.
> >
> > Wow, "we're chemical!" Great rationalisation for inept self
> > centredness, taken to the
> > extreme. How do you classify the rest of humanity, mineral?
> >
> >
> > http://www.apa.org/releases/antidep.html
> > Study Finds Psychotherapy and Anti-Depressants Equally Effective
> > in Treating Severely Depressed Primary-Care Patients
> >
> > WASHINGTON - Researchers comparing the effectiveness of treating
> > major depression with either antidepressant medication or
> > psychotherapy noted no difference in the success of the two
> > treatment methods after an eight-month clinical investigation.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> I'm sure you can a study to prove any wacky idea. The overwhelming
> body of evidence is that both together work best. As I said, I did
> 15 years of therapy with nearly zero results. I knew a lot more
> about WHY I felt like crap. Expensive useless knowledge.

Overwhelming body of evidence??? Wacky opinions? If you had referred to an
popularised body of opinion, you might have a point. Relative to depression,
there is not one scientific control study proving the efficacy of
medication, therapy, or both.

I can relate in part to your experience though. Decades before taking the 12
steps and being freed from depression, I utilised LSD to discover where I
was screwed up. To a large extent, the LSD enlightened me. However, relative
to rectifying my attitudes, thus behaviour, LSD was, in my case, useless.

Bob

[Bingo]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
news:RwyPa.101635$fe.2090248@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:

>
>> Not having a degree in psychology or psychiatry, I won't argue
>> the point. I guess more research is needed. But not by me. The
>> steps have help me quite a bit, but mostly in dealing with
>> challenges, not with depression. Maybe someday it will. I'd to
>> be totally free and clear of any meds, the fewer the better.
>
>
> bingo,
> the steps DID help me with the situational depression, after i
> quit drinking. giving away my last COPING mechanism (drinking)
> really brought that (situational)depression "up close and
> personal" as it will for alot of early recovering alcoholics.
> keep coming back, act as it, do the steps, just keep trudging,
> come to mind, as some of the tools i used during this
> time...................................
>
> five years after i was in recovery, (and quit smoking) the
> clinical depression reared its ugly head again, and that
> required medication. there is a big difference, as you know.
> the studies that i have read, agree with yours, the combination
> of medication and therapy continue to be the most successful
> treatment for clinical depression. of course that also requires
> total sobriety.
>
> hang in there!
> rosie
>
>
>
>

Well, Rosie, I'm not exactly new, but my recovery (or my life)
isn't at a high point. Haven't drank since '87, but the last three
years I haven't attended meetings regularly. I've just gotten
tired of the same old crap in the meetings. I relocated back to my
home town a couple years ago and I just don't like the meetings
much in this area.

I havent' worked in two years, because I left my high-tech job to
start a business, which failed during this recession (and some
expensive mistakes I made), and now I'm basically broke, alone, low
on hope. If it weren't for AD's I wouldn't get out of bed in the
morning (though 'morning' is becoming a loose definition).

I know I've got to do something soon (like yesterday), I just can't
seem to get anything going or find any hope. (And tryng to get back
into high-tech these days is nearly impossible, even for those who
aren't burned out on it).

[rosie readandpost]

have you tried any online aa meetings?
http://www.aa-intergroup.org/

keeping your "spirit" up with a shot or two of meeting serenity can really help.
sorry that SO MUCH crap has happened....................................that stinks!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

ever wonder if we would care more about each other if we realized how much we have in common?
..............................R. Nagy




"Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message news:Xns93B5EB922F392billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
> news:RwyPa.101635$fe.2090248@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>
> >
> >> Not having a degree in psychology or psychiatry, I won't argue
> >> the point. I guess more research is needed. But not by me. The
> >> steps have help me quite a bit, but mostly in dealing with
> >> challenges, not with depression. Maybe someday it will. I'd to
> >> be totally free and clear of any meds, the fewer the better.
> >
> >
> > bingo,
> > the steps DID help me with the situational depression, after i
> > quit drinking. giving away my last COPING mechanism (drinking)
> > really brought that (situational)depression "up close and
> > personal" as it will for alot of early recovering alcoholics.
> > keep coming back, act as it, do the steps, just keep trudging,
> > come to mind, as some of the tools i used during this
> > time...................................
> >
> > five years after i was in recovery, (and quit smoking) the
> > clinical depression reared its ugly head again, and that
> > required medication. there is a big difference, as you know.
> > the studies that i have read, agree with yours, the combination
> > of medication and therapy continue to be the most successful
> > treatment for clinical depression. of course that also requires
> > total sobriety.
> >
> > hang in there!
> > rosie
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Well, Rosie, I'm not exactly new, but my recovery (or my life)
> isn't at a high point. Haven't drank since '87, but the last three
> years I haven't attended meetings regularly. I've just gotten
> tired of the same old crap in the meetings. I relocated back to my
> home town a couple years ago and I just don't like the meetings
> much in this area.
>
> I havent' worked in two years, because I left my high-tech job to
> start a business, which failed during this recession (and some
> expensive mistakes I made), and now I'm basically broke, alone, low
> on hope. If it weren't for AD's I wouldn't get out of bed in the
> morning (though 'morning' is becoming a loose definition).
>
> I know I've got to do something soon (like yesterday), I just can't
> seem to get anything going or find any hope. (And tryng to get back
> into high-tech these days is nearly impossible, even for those who
> aren't burned out on it).

[Shawster]

"Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93B5EB922F392billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
> news:RwyPa.101635$fe.2090248@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>
> >
> >> Not having a degree in psychology or psychiatry, I won't argue
> >> the point. I guess more research is needed. But not by me. The
> >> steps have help me quite a bit, but mostly in dealing with
> >> challenges, not with depression. Maybe someday it will. I'd to
> >> be totally free and clear of any meds, the fewer the better.
> >
> >
> > bingo,
> > the steps DID help me with the situational depression, after i
> > quit drinking. giving away my last COPING mechanism (drinking)
> > really brought that (situational)depression "up close and
> > personal" as it will for alot of early recovering alcoholics.
> > keep coming back, act as it, do the steps, just keep trudging,
> > come to mind, as some of the tools i used during this
> > time...................................
> >
> > five years after i was in recovery, (and quit smoking) the
> > clinical depression reared its ugly head again, and that
> > required medication. there is a big difference, as you know.
> > the studies that i have read, agree with yours, the combination
> > of medication and therapy continue to be the most successful
> > treatment for clinical depression. of course that also requires
> > total sobriety.
> >
> > hang in there!
> > rosie
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Well, Rosie, I'm not exactly new, but my recovery (or my life)
> isn't at a high point. Haven't drank since '87, but the last three
> years I haven't attended meetings regularly. I've just gotten
> tired of the same old crap in the meetings. I relocated back to my
> home town a couple years ago and I just don't like the meetings
> much in this area.
>
> I havent' worked in two years, because I left my high-tech job to
> start a business, which failed during this recession (and some
> expensive mistakes I made), and now I'm basically broke, alone, low
> on hope. If it weren't for AD's I wouldn't get out of bed in the
> morning (though 'morning' is becoming a loose definition).
>
> I know I've got to do something soon (like yesterday), I just can't
> seem to get anything going or find any hope. (And tryng to get back
> into high-tech these days is nearly impossible, even for those who
> aren't burned out on it).

Do you might think that it is the depression that is putting the bitter
taste into your mouth, not AA?

volunteer work might be a great way to get out of bed, give meaning to your
life, help you make friends, and start you on a new carreer.



>

[catsruleok]

"Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93B5EB922F392billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
> news:RwyPa.101635$fe.2090248@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>
> Well, Rosie, I'm not exactly new, but my recovery (or my life)
> isn't at a high point. Haven't drank since '87, but the last three
> years I haven't attended meetings regularly. I've just gotten
> tired of the same old crap in the meetings. I relocated back to my
> home town a couple years ago and I just don't like the meetings
> much in this area.
>
> I havent' worked in two years, because I left my high-tech job to
> start a business, which failed during this recession (and some
> expensive mistakes I made), and now I'm basically broke, alone, low
> on hope. If it weren't for AD's I wouldn't get out of bed in the
> morning (though 'morning' is becoming a loose definition).
>
> I know I've got to do something soon (like yesterday), I just can't
> seem to get anything going or find any hope. (And tryng to get back
> into high-tech these days is nearly impossible, even for those who
> aren't burned out on it).

Hi Bingo,

You may be broke and low on hope but as we know about you, you are not alone :^)). If there are
times when you find what you read here and elsewhere helps you in some way, and if you reflect on
these times when you are feeling really down, you may eventually come to see that not everything in
your life needs to be coloured black.

Like you, I also suffer from bouts of depression. Sometimes these have been brought on by the
stresses I've been put under as a result of caring for my husband. In the early 1990's, for various
reasons, including a nervous breakdown, he spent the best part of four years in hospital. When my
husband has to be in hospital he is virtually all the time unable to do anything for himself. So,
almost every day while he was in hospital I would leave home at between 7. 00 and 8.00 am and spend
all day up until 10 or 11 pm caring for him both physically and emotionally. At the same time, I
had to manage everything at home, including those things that my husband normally dealt with, and
our work. I could do only a few of these tasks while at the hospital. As you can imagine, when my
husband was able to start picking up the pieces of his life, I was not in the best shape to help him
do so :^) If it hadn't been for my lack of courage to commit suicide , my doctor, the counsellor he
referred me to and antidepressants, I would not now be telling you that it is possible to survive
black times.

I still get bouts of depressions and am, in fact, currently taking antidepressants. What helps to
keep me going is feeling that I am of value not just to my husband but maybe also to others. It is
obvious why I am of value to my husband. I think I am of value to others because of my life
experiences . When I choose to share these it is because I believe that someone somewhere might
benefit from what I have to say.

So, even though you have no job and no money (which I very much hope will not be the case for much
longer) and, if you are able to look at your life and see how your experiences can bring benefit to
others, then I hope you will find your life beginning to look a little brighter than it appears to
do now. If you do not yet feel ready to do this, that's OK. Please stick with it and don't forget
to use this NG when you need the kind of support that it can give you.

If this post helps you in some way, then I shall thank you for making me happy :^))

Hoping that tomorrow and everyday thereafter will be for you a little brighter than the day before.

All the very best

JB

[Bingo]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
news:9nMPa.9543$k85.520445@twister.tampabay.rr.com :

>
> "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93B5EB922F392billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
>> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:RwyPa.101635$fe.2090248@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>>
>> >
>> >> Not having a degree in psychology or psychiatry, I won't
>> >> argue the point. I guess more research is needed. But not by
>> >> me. The steps have help me quite a bit, but mostly in
>> >> dealing with challenges, not with depression. Maybe someday
>> >> it will. I'd to be totally free and clear of any meds, the
>> >> fewer the better.
>> >
>> >
>> > bingo,
>> > the steps DID help me with the situational depression, after
>> > i quit drinking. giving away my last COPING mechanism
>> > (drinking) really brought that (situational)depression "up
>> > close and personal" as it will for alot of early recovering
>> > alcoholics. keep coming back, act as it, do the steps, just
>> > keep trudging, come to mind, as some of the tools i used
>> > during this time...................................
>> >
>> > five years after i was in recovery, (and quit smoking) the
>> > clinical depression reared its ugly head again, and that
>> > required medication. there is a big difference, as you know.
>> > the studies that i have read, agree with yours, the
>> > combination of medication and therapy continue to be the most
>> > successful treatment for clinical depression. of course that
>> > also requires total sobriety.
>> >
>> > hang in there!
>> > rosie
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Well, Rosie, I'm not exactly new, but my recovery (or my life)
>> isn't at a high point. Haven't drank since '87, but the last
>> three years I haven't attended meetings regularly. I've just
>> gotten tired of the same old crap in the meetings. I relocated
>> back to my home town a couple years ago and I just don't like
>> the meetings much in this area.
>>
>> I havent' worked in two years, because I left my high-tech job
>> to start a business, which failed during this recession (and
>> some expensive mistakes I made), and now I'm basically broke,
>> alone, low on hope. If it weren't for AD's I wouldn't get out
>> of bed in the morning (though 'morning' is becoming a loose
>> definition).
>>
>> I know I've got to do something soon (like yesterday), I just
>> can't seem to get anything going or find any hope. (And tryng
>> to get back into high-tech these days is nearly impossible,
>> even for those who aren't burned out on it).
>
> Do you might think that it is the depression that is putting the
> bitter taste into your mouth, not AA?
>
> volunteer work might be a great way to get out of bed, give
> meaning to your life, help you make friends, and start you on a
> new carreer.
>
>
Certainly a possibility. It's hard to tell anymore. Volunteer work
sounds like a good idea in principle, but every mnute I'm not
working on finding income takes me further away from be able to pay
bills, and I'm already in a deep hole.

[Bingo]

"catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in
news:beoofl$uhq$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk:

>
> "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93B5EB922F392billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
>> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:RwyPa.101635$fe.2090248@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>>
>> Well, Rosie, I'm not exactly new, but my recovery (or my life)
>> isn't at a high point. Haven't drank since '87, but the last
>> three years I haven't attended meetings regularly. I've just
>> gotten tired of the same old crap in the meetings. I relocated
>> back to my home town a couple years ago and I just don't like
>> the meetings much in this area.
>>
>> I havent' worked in two years, because I left my high-tech job
>> to start a business, which failed during this recession (and
>> some expensive mistakes I made), and now I'm basically broke,
>> alone, low on hope. If it weren't for AD's I wouldn't get out
>> of bed in the morning (though 'morning' is becoming a loose
>> definition).
>>
>> I know I've got to do something soon (like yesterday), I just
>> can't seem to get anything going or find any hope. (And tryng
>> to get back into high-tech these days is nearly impossible,
>> even for those who aren't burned out on it).
>
> Hi Bingo,
>
> You may be broke and low on hope but as we know about you, you
> are not alone :^)). If there are times when you find what you
> read here and elsewhere helps you in some way, and if you
> reflect on these times when you are feeling really down, you may
> eventually come to see that not everything in your life needs to
> be coloured black.
>
> Like you, I also suffer from bouts of depression. Sometimes
> these have been brought on by the stresses I've been put under
> as a result of caring for my husband. In the early 1990's, for
> various reasons, including a nervous breakdown, he spent the
> best part of four years in hospital. When my husband has to be
> in hospital he is virtually all the time unable to do anything
> for himself. So, almost every day while he was in hospital I
> would leave home at between 7. 00 and 8.00 am and spend all day
> up until 10 or 11 pm caring for him both physically and
> emotionally. At the same time, I had to manage everything at
> home, including those things that my husband normally dealt
> with, and our work. I could do only a few of these tasks while
> at the hospital. As you can imagine, when my husband was able
> to start picking up the pieces of his life, I was not in the
> best shape to help him do so :^) If it hadn't been for my lack
> of courage to commit suicide , my doctor, the counsellor he
> referred me to and antidepressants, I would not now be telling
> you that it is possible to survive black times.
>
> I still get bouts of depressions and am, in fact, currently
> taking antidepressants. What helps to keep me going is feeling
> that I am of value not just to my husband but maybe also to
> others. It is obvious why I am of value to my husband. I think I
> am of value to others because of my life experiences . When I
> choose to share these it is because I believe that someone
> somewhere might benefit from what I have to say.
>
> So, even though you have no job and no money (which I very much
> hope will not be the case for much longer) and, if you are able
> to look at your life and see how your experiences can bring
> benefit to others, then I hope you will find your life beginning
> to look a little brighter than it appears to do now. If you do
> not yet feel ready to do this, that's OK. Please stick with it
> and don't forget to use this NG when you need the kind of
> support that it can give you.
>
> If this post helps you in some way, then I shall thank you for
> making me happy :^))
>
> Hoping that tomorrow and everyday thereafter will be for you a
> little brighter than the day before.
>
> All the very best
>
> JB
>
>
>

Thank you, JB!
I don't feel like I serve much of a purpose anymore, like I can't
go back or forward. I know deep down it's not true, but I often
can't get past the feeling. I've been in worse shape and survived
it, but I don't feel like I have the desire to live. It's not evn
that I'm in dire agony. I'm just tired of struggling, in every
aspect of life, not just money.

[Robert McGregor]

"Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93B8EBADE916Ebillmicrosoftcom@216.148.227. 77...
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
> news:9nMPa.9543$k85.520445@twister.tampabay.rr.com :
>
> >
> > "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns93B5EB922F392billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> >> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
> >> news:RwyPa.101635$fe.2090248@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> Not having a degree in psychology or psychiatry, I won't
> >> >> argue the point. I guess more research is needed. But not by
> >> >> me. The steps have help me quite a bit, but mostly in
> >> >> dealing with challenges, not with depression. Maybe someday
> >> >> it will. I'd to be totally free and clear of any meds, the
> >> >> fewer the better.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > bingo,
> >> > the steps DID help me with the situational depression, after
> >> > i quit drinking. giving away my last COPING mechanism
> >> > (drinking) really brought that (situational)depression "up
> >> > close and personal" as it will for alot of early recovering
> >> > alcoholics. keep coming back, act as it, do the steps, just
> >> > keep trudging, come to mind, as some of the tools i used
> >> > during this time...................................
> >> >
> >> > five years after i was in recovery, (and quit smoking) the
> >> > clinical depression reared its ugly head again, and that
> >> > required medication. there is a big difference, as you know.
> >> > the studies that i have read, agree with yours, the
> >> > combination of medication and therapy continue to be the most
> >> > successful treatment for clinical depression. of course that
> >> > also requires total sobriety.
> >> >
> >> > hang in there!
> >> > rosie
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Well, Rosie, I'm not exactly new, but my recovery (or my life)
> >> isn't at a high point. Haven't drank since '87, but the last
> >> three years I haven't attended meetings regularly. I've just
> >> gotten tired of the same old crap in the meetings. I relocated
> >> back to my home town a couple years ago and I just don't like
> >> the meetings much in this area.
> >>
> >> I havent' worked in two years, because I left my high-tech job
> >> to start a business, which failed during this recession (and
> >> some expensive mistakes I made), and now I'm basically broke,
> >> alone, low on hope. If it weren't for AD's I wouldn't get out
> >> of bed in the morning (though 'morning' is becoming a loose
> >> definition).
> >>
> >> I know I've got to do something soon (like yesterday), I just
> >> can't seem to get anything going or find any hope. (And tryng
> >> to get back into high-tech these days is nearly impossible,
> >> even for those who aren't burned out on it).
> >
> > Do you might think that it is the depression that is putting the
> > bitter taste into your mouth, not AA?
> >
> > volunteer work might be a great way to get out of bed, give
> > meaning to your life, help you make friends, and start you on a
> > new carreer.
> >
> >
> Certainly a possibility. It's hard to tell anymore. Volunteer work
> sounds like a good idea in principle, but every mnute I'm not
> working on finding income takes me further away from be able to pay
> bills, and I'm already in a deep hole.

Have you ever read the book, "A New Pair Of Glasses" by Chuck C.?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V3FD42445

Excerpts are available free @
http://webpages.charter.net/RochRecovery/ANewPairOfGlasses.html
http://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=category&id=21

Utilising what I gleaned from that book established a method of negating
self pity that worked, and I have little doubt, if needed, would work again,
for me.

Bob

[rosie readandpost]

> Utilising what I gleaned from that book established a method of negating
> self pity that worked, and I have little doubt, if needed, would work again,
> for me.
>
> Bob
>


we agree!
wonderful book and a wonderful man!
>

[Bingo]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:bevtja$9jdqc$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de:

>
> "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93B8EBADE916Ebillmicrosoftcom@216.148.227. 77...
>> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
>> news:9nMPa.9543$k85.520445@twister.tampabay.rr.com :
>>
>> >
>> > "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> > news:Xns93B5EB922F392billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
>> >> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote
>> >> in news:RwyPa.101635$fe.2090248@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> Not having a degree in psychology or psychiatry, I won't
>> >> >> argue the point. I guess more research is needed. But not
>> >> >> by me. The steps have help me quite a bit, but mostly in
>> >> >> dealing with challenges, not with depression. Maybe
>> >> >> someday it will. I'd to be totally free and clear of any
>> >> >> meds, the fewer the better.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > bingo,
>> >> > the steps DID help me with the situational depression,
>> >> > after i quit drinking. giving away my last COPING
>> >> > mechanism (drinking) really brought that
>> >> > (situational)depression "up close and personal" as it will
>> >> > for alot of early recovering alcoholics. keep coming
>> >> > back, act as it, do the steps, just keep trudging, come to
>> >> > mind, as some of the tools i used during this
>> >> > time...................................
>> >> >
>> >> > five years after i was in recovery, (and quit smoking) the
>> >> > clinical depression reared its ugly head again, and that
>> >> > required medication. there is a big difference, as you
>> >> > know. the studies that i have read, agree with yours, the
>> >> > combination of medication and therapy continue to be the
>> >> > most successful treatment for clinical depression. of
>> >> > course that also requires total sobriety.
>> >> >
>> >> > hang in there!
>> >> > rosie
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Well, Rosie, I'm not exactly new, but my recovery (or my
>> >> life) isn't at a high point. Haven't drank since '87, but
>> >> the last three years I haven't attended meetings regularly.
>> >> I've just gotten tired of the same old crap in the meetings.
>> >> I relocated back to my home town a couple years ago and I
>> >> just don't like the meetings much in this area.
>> >>
>> >> I havent' worked in two years, because I left my high-tech
>> >> job to start a business, which failed during this recession
>> >> (and some expensive mistakes I made), and now I'm basically
>> >> broke, alone, low on hope. If it weren't for AD's I
>> >> wouldn't get out of bed in the morning (though 'morning' is
>> >> becoming a loose definition).
>> >>
>> >> I know I've got to do something soon (like yesterday), I
>> >> just can't seem to get anything going or find any hope. (And
>> >> tryng to get back into high-tech these days is nearly
>> >> impossible, even for those who aren't burned out on it).
>> >
>> > Do you might think that it is the depression that is putting
>> > the bitter taste into your mouth, not AA?
>> >
>> > volunteer work might be a great way to get out of bed, give
>> > meaning to your life, help you make friends, and start you on
>> > a new carreer.
>> >
>> >
>> Certainly a possibility. It's hard to tell anymore. Volunteer
>> work sounds like a good idea in principle, but every mnute I'm
>> not working on finding income takes me further away from be
>> able to pay bills, and I'm already in a deep hole.
>
> Have you ever read the book, "A New Pair Of Glasses" by Chuck
> C.? http://makeashorterlink.com/?V3FD42445
>
> Excerpts are available free @
> http://webpages.charter.net/RochRecovery/ANewPairOfGlasses.html
> http://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=category&id=21
>
> Utilising what I gleaned from that book established a method of
> negating self pity that worked, and I have little doubt, if
> needed, would work again, for me.
>
> Bob
>
>
>

Thanks, Bob. I'll see if I kind find a copy at the library. I
have heard good things about it.

[Robert McGregor]

"Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93B96B93C4BF0billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> news:bevtja$9jdqc$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
> >
> > "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns93B8EBADE916Ebillmicrosoftcom@216.148.227. 77...
> >> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
> >> news:9nMPa.9543$k85.520445@twister.tampabay.rr.com :
> >>
> >> >
> >> > "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:Xns93B5EB922F392billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> >> >> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote
> >> >> in news:RwyPa.101635$fe.2090248@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Not having a degree in psychology or psychiatry, I won't
> >> >> >> argue the point. I guess more research is needed. But not
> >> >> >> by me. The steps have help me quite a bit, but mostly in
> >> >> >> dealing with challenges, not with depression. Maybe
> >> >> >> someday it will. I'd to be totally free and clear of any
> >> >> >> meds, the fewer the better.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > bingo,
> >> >> > the steps DID help me with the situational depression,
> >> >> > after i quit drinking. giving away my last COPING
> >> >> > mechanism (drinking) really brought that
> >> >> > (situational)depression "up close and personal" as it will
> >> >> > for alot of early recovering alcoholics. keep coming
> >> >> > back, act as it, do the steps, just keep trudging, come to
> >> >> > mind, as some of the tools i used during this
> >> >> > time...................................
> >> >> >
> >> >> > five years after i was in recovery, (and quit smoking) the
> >> >> > clinical depression reared its ugly head again, and that
> >> >> > required medication. there is a big difference, as you
> >> >> > know. the studies that i have read, agree with yours, the
> >> >> > combination of medication and therapy continue to be the
> >> >> > most successful treatment for clinical depression. of
> >> >> > course that also requires total sobriety.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > hang in there!
> >> >> > rosie
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Well, Rosie, I'm not exactly new, but my recovery (or my
> >> >> life) isn't at a high point. Haven't drank since '87, but
> >> >> the last three years I haven't attended meetings regularly.
> >> >> I've just gotten tired of the same old crap in the meetings.
> >> >> I relocated back to my home town a couple years ago and I
> >> >> just don't like the meetings much in this area.
> >> >>
> >> >> I havent' worked in two years, because I left my high-tech
> >> >> job to start a business, which failed during this recession
> >> >> (and some expensive mistakes I made), and now I'm basically
> >> >> broke, alone, low on hope. If it weren't for AD's I
> >> >> wouldn't get out of bed in the morning (though 'morning' is
> >> >> becoming a loose definition).
> >> >>
> >> >> I know I've got to do something soon (like yesterday), I
> >> >> just can't seem to get anything going or find any hope. (And
> >> >> tryng to get back into high-tech these days is nearly
> >> >> impossible, even for those who aren't burned out on it).
> >> >
> >> > Do you might think that it is the depression that is putting
> >> > the bitter taste into your mouth, not AA?
> >> >
> >> > volunteer work might be a great way to get out of bed, give
> >> > meaning to your life, help you make friends, and start you on
> >> > a new carreer.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Certainly a possibility. It's hard to tell anymore. Volunteer
> >> work sounds like a good idea in principle, but every mnute I'm
> >> not working on finding income takes me further away from be
> >> able to pay bills, and I'm already in a deep hole.
> >
> > Have you ever read the book, "A New Pair Of Glasses" by Chuck
> > C.? http://makeashorterlink.com/?V3FD42445
> >
> > Excerpts are available free @
> > http://webpages.charter.net/RochRecovery/ANewPairOfGlasses.html
> > http://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=category&id=21
> >
> > Utilising what I gleaned from that book established a method of
> > negating self pity that worked, and I have little doubt, if
> > needed, would work again, for me.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
>
> Thanks, Bob. I'll see if I kind find a copy at the library. I
> have heard good things about it.

Yeah, in my observation, it gets more consensual endorsement than the Big
Book. Jeez, as Rosie and I agree on it's merit, it's a bloody miracle book!

Bob

[Robert McGregor]

"Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93B9DB44F202Cbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
> news:LGSQa.4930$7O4.46766@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>
> >
> >> Utilising what I gleaned from that book established a method of
> >> negating self pity that worked, and I have little doubt, if
> >> needed, would work again, for me.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >
> >
> > we agree!
> > wonderful book and a wonderful man!
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> I may have to get it soon. I took my cat to the vet today (she's
> been sick a couple of days) and he thinks she has liver disease. Not
> to mention that I *do NOT* have $500+ to treat it, but I just can't
> bear losing her. I've had her for ten years and is absolutely the
> sweetest soul I've ever known. period. I'm even more a mess than
> usual today.

Have you tried taking positive action that diverts your mind from all those
negative problems?

All I had to do was take one proposition at a time from the text as shown in
the URL below, take sufficient action to comply to the best of my ability,
and was immediately living in the solutions, instead of agonising in the
problems.

Very simple, though not as easy as I would have preferred. When all is said
and done, is positive change worth delaying merely in hope of an easier
solution?

http://silkworth.net/bb/howitworks.html

Bob

[Bingo]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:bf2boq$ad31l$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de:

>
> "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93B9DB44F202Cbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
>> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:LGSQa.4930$7O4.46766@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>>
>> >
>> >> Utilising what I gleaned from that book established a method
>> >> of negating self pity that worked, and I have little doubt,
>> >> if needed, would work again, for me.
>> >>
>> >> Bob
>> >>
>
>
> Have you tried taking positive action that diverts your mind
> from all those negative problems?
>
> All I had to do was take one proposition at a time from the text
> as shown in the URL below, take sufficient action to comply to
> the best of my ability, and was immediately living in the
> solutions, instead of agonising in the problems.
>
> Very simple, though not as easy as I would have preferred. When
> all is said and done, is positive change worth delaying merely
> in hope of an easier solution?
>
> http://silkworth.net/bb/howitworks.html
>
> Bob
>
>
>

The cat is now on anti-biotics and will probably need surgery to
remove a tumor on her liver. Just prior to picking her up I went to
a temp agency and hopefully I can find *some* kind of income, even
though it's unlikely I'll make enough to pay the bills. Until the
economy picks up, it may be the best I can do. Hopefully, just for
today, it'll be enough.

As part of my recovery about five years in, I recognized that I was
also a chronic "debtor" and vowed to live debt free. It took me a
couple of years, but I did it. Then I had to put that at risk when I
left my job to start a business. Then the recession, terror attacks,
etc, brought all that down. But I don't regret doing it. Next time,
I'll do it better!

[Bingo]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:bf2boq$ad31l$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de:

>
> "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93B9DB44F202Cbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
>> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:LGSQa.4930$7O4.46766@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>>
>> >
>> >> Utilising what I gleaned from that book established a method
>> >> of negating self pity that worked, and I have little doubt,
>> >> if needed, would work again, for me.
>> >>
>> >> Bob
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > we agree!
>> > wonderful book and a wonderful man!
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I may have to get it soon. I took my cat to the vet today
>> (she's been sick a couple of days) and he thinks she has liver
>> disease. Not to mention that I *do NOT* have $500+ to treat
>> it, but I just can't bear losing her. I've had her for ten
>> years and is absolutely the sweetest soul I've ever known.
>> period. I'm even more a mess than usual today.
>
> Have you tried taking positive action that diverts your mind
> from all those negative problems?
>
> All I had to do was take one proposition at a time from the text
> as shown in the URL below, take sufficient action to comply to
> the best of my ability, and was immediately living in the
> solutions, instead of agonising in the problems.
>
> Very simple, though not as easy as I would have preferred. When
> all is said and done, is positive change worth delaying merely
> in hope of an easier solution?
>
> http://silkworth.net/bb/howitworks.html
>
> Bob
>
>
>

The cat is now on anti-biotics and will probably need surgery to
remove a tumor on her liver. Just prior to picking her up I went to
a temp agency and hopefully I can find *some* kind of income, even
though it's unlikely I'll make enough to pay the bills. Until the
economy picks up, it may be the best I can do. Hopefully, just for
today, it'll be enough.

As part of my recovery about five years in, I recognized that I was
also a chronic "debtor" and vowed to live debt free. It took me a
couple of years, but I did it. Then I had to put that at risk when I
left my job to start a business. Then the recession, terror attacks,
etc, brought all that down. But I don't regret doing it. Next time,
I'll do it better!

[Bingo]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:bf2boq$ad31l$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de:

>
> "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93B9DB44F202Cbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
>> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:LGSQa.4930$7O4.46766@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>>
>> >
>> >> Utilising what I gleaned from that book established a method
>> >> of negating self pity that worked, and I have little doubt,
>> >> if needed, would work again, for me.
>> >>
>> >> Bob
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > we agree!
>> > wonderful book and a wonderful man!
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I may have to get it soon. I took my cat to the vet today
>> (she's been sick a couple of days) and he thinks she has liver
>> disease. Not to mention that I *do NOT* have $500+ to treat
>> it, but I just can't bear losing her. I've had her for ten
>> years and is absolutely the sweetest soul I've ever known.
>> period. I'm even more a mess than usual today.
>
> Have you tried taking positive action that diverts your mind
> from all those negative problems?
>
> All I had to do was take one proposition at a time from the text
> as shown in the URL below, take sufficient action to comply to
> the best of my ability, and was immediately living in the
> solutions, instead of agonising in the problems.
>
> Very simple, though not as easy as I would have preferred. When
> all is said and done, is positive change worth delaying merely
> in hope of an easier solution?
>
> http://silkworth.net/bb/howitworks.html
>
> Bob
>
>
>

The cat is now on anti-biotics and will probably need surgery to
remove a tumor on her liver. Just prior to picking her up I went
to a temp agency and hopefully I can find *some* kind of income,
even though it's unlikely I'll make enough to pay the bills. Until
the economy picks up, it may be the best I can do. Hopefully, just
for today, it'll be enough.

As part of my recovery about five years in, I recognized that I was
also a chronic "debtor" and vowed to live debt free. It took me a
couple of years, but I did it. Then I had to put that at risk when
I left my job to start a business. Then the recession, terror
attacks, etc, brought all that down. But I don't regret doing it.
Next time, I'll do it better!

[Bingo]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:bf2boq$ad31l$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de:

>
> "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93B9DB44F202Cbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
>> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:LGSQa.4930$7O4.46766@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>>
>> >
>> >> Utilising what I gleaned from that book established a method
>> >> of negating self pity that worked, and I have little doubt,
>> >> if needed, would work again, for me.
>> >>
>> >> Bob
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > we agree!
>> > wonderful book and a wonderful man!
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I may have to get it soon. I took my cat to the vet today
>> (she's been sick a couple of days) and he thinks she has liver
>> disease. Not to mention that I *do NOT* have $500+ to treat
>> it, but I just can't bear losing