Alcohol Withdrawal

[A Knucklehead]

How long does the symptoms (headaches, body aches, sweats and agitation) last for a drinker who is
quitting after about 20yrs. Not an everyday drinker, but almost.

[The Other Harry]

[On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:54:27 -0800, A Knucklehead
<aknucklehead2@hotmail.com> wrote:]

> How long does the symptoms (headaches, body aches, sweats and agitation)
> last for a drinker who is quitting after about 20yrs. Not an everyday
> drinker, but almost.

Take this from someone who is trying to quit:

Most of the physical symptoms end somewhere between 3 to 4 weeks.
Some sooner than that. The one that seems to last the longest is
the inability to sleep. I have heard people say that may last
forever. It varies.

For me, tho, it is not the physical symptoms that are the main
problem. It is more the mental -- and I'm not about to give you
any advice there. I'm having a hard enough time with that
myself.

In general, I would say not to worry too much about the physical
part. They will be an absolute bitch, but most of it will end
soon enough. It is the mental part that will require the work.

My opinion -- which could be wrong -- is that most of us sedate
ourselves because of some other underlying problem. Could be
depression, could be something else.

I think that is where you need to go looking. If you don't get
there, I don't think the drinking will go away.

My two centavos.

Good luck!

[Shawster]

how much do you weigh?


"A Knucklehead" <aknucklehead2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vrlts671ie5ld6@corp.supernews.com...
> How long does the symptoms (headaches, body aches, sweats and agitation)
last for a drinker who is
> quitting after about 20yrs. Not an everyday drinker, but almost.
>
>

[A Knucklehead]

About 225 lbs about 25lbs more than I should. (Beer gut of course)

Shawster wrote:
> how much do you weigh?
>
>
> "A Knucklehead" <aknucklehead2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:vrlts671ie5ld6@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>How long does the symptoms (headaches, body aches, sweats and agitation)
>
> last for a drinker who is
>
>>quitting after about 20yrs. Not an everyday drinker, but almost.
>>
>>
>
>
>

[A Knucklehead]

I've been dry for two weeks and really am surprised by my lack of cravings for booze. The physical
aches are more of a problem. As for underlying problems, I really don't have any big issues, I've
got it made. Good job, family, etc. I just started drinking when I was in high school, through
college and just didn't stop. I enjoyed it. I don't anymore as I'm approaching 40, and it is
starting to effect my health. I asked myself a few weeks ago why I am still doing something I no
longer enjoy. If I can't quit it alone I will definitely be seeking help.

Thanks

The Other Harry wrote:

> [On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:54:27 -0800, A Knucklehead
> <aknucklehead2@hotmail.com> wrote:]
>
>
>>How long does the symptoms (headaches, body aches, sweats and agitation)
>>last for a drinker who is quitting after about 20yrs. Not an everyday
>>drinker, but almost.
>
>
> Take this from someone who is trying to quit:
>
> Most of the physical symptoms end somewhere between 3 to 4 weeks.
> Some sooner than that. The one that seems to last the longest is
> the inability to sleep. I have heard people say that may last
> forever. It varies.
>
> For me, tho, it is not the physical symptoms that are the main
> problem. It is more the mental -- and I'm not about to give you
> any advice there. I'm having a hard enough time with that
> myself.
>
> In general, I would say not to worry too much about the physical
> part. They will be an absolute bitch, but most of it will end
> soon enough. It is the mental part that will require the work.
>
> My opinion -- which could be wrong -- is that most of us sedate
> ourselves because of some other underlying problem. Could be
> depression, could be something else.
>
> I think that is where you need to go looking. If you don't get
> there, I don't think the drinking will go away.
>
> My two centavos.
>
> Good luck!
>

[Robert McGregor]

"A Knucklehead" <aknucklehead2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vrm6g45m0uti4d@corp.supernews.com...
> I've been dry for two weeks and really am surprised by my lack of cravings
for booze. The physical
> aches are more of a problem. As for underlying problems, I really don't
have any big issues, I've
> got it made. Good job, family, etc. I just started drinking when I was
in high school, through
> college and just didn't stop. I enjoyed it. I don't anymore as I'm
approaching 40, and it is
> starting to effect my health. I asked myself a few weeks ago why I am
still doing something I no
> longer enjoy. If I can't quit it alone I will definitely be seeking help.
>

Good Luck! Amazing what adventures can be in store for the non drinker.
Sobriety enables more fun experiences than I ever dreamed of, when I let it.
Meanwhile, if the AA recruiting squad don't get to you first, rosie the grim
reaper will probly be along later to intoxicate you with smarm, before
impaling your butt with her lethal dildo.

Bob

[The Other Harry]

[On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:21:35 -0800, A Knucklehead
<aknucklehead2@hotmail.com> wrote:]

> I've been dry for two weeks and really am surprised by my lack of cravings for booze. The physical
> aches are more of a problem. As for underlying problems, I really don't have any big issues, I've
> got it made. Good job, family, etc. I just started drinking when I was in high school, through
> college and just didn't stop. I enjoyed it. I don't anymore as I'm approaching 40, and it is
> starting to effect my health. I asked myself a few weeks ago why I am still doing something I no
> longer enjoy. If I can't quit it alone I will definitely be seeking help.

You watch out. As I have said on other threads, I can get to
about the three week point without much of a problem. Then I
seem to hit a wall.

It is not physical. It is mental. The lack of sedation seems to
accumulate day by day. I get to where I literally go nuts.
Insane. Crazy. Need-to-be-institutionalized type crazy. Locked
up.

Some people here already think that would be a good thing for me.
They may be right. That would get me off the road.

You may be different. We are not all alike.

I don't have any easy answers for you. I have started seeing a
psychiatrist because I can't figure myself out. She probably
can't either. But we shall try.

I am awake at the moment because I am trying to quit drinking
again. I have a half bottle of booze it the kitchen that I am
trying to not to think about -- but which is very much on my mind
every second. I am sweating. Wiping my brow.

It ain't easy.

But, still, it is not this part which is the most difficult for
me. I can get through this. I have before. It is the next
part.

[Gail]

Do you laugh constantly, too. I am sick and get high blood pressure just
reading this crap.

Gail

"A Knucklehead" <aknucklehead2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vrlts671ie5ld6@corp.supernews.com...
> How long does the symptoms (headaches, body aches, sweats and agitation)
last for a drinker who is
> quitting after about 20yrs. Not an everyday drinker, but almost.
>

[Xanadu]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:18:53 -0500, The Other Harry wrote:

> [On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:54:27 -0800, A Knucklehead
> <aknucklehead2@hotmail.com> wrote:]
>
>> How long does the symptoms (headaches, body aches, sweats and
>> agitation) last for a drinker who is quitting after about 20yrs. Not
>> an everyday drinker, but almost.
>
> Take this from someone who is trying to quit:
>
> Most of the physical symptoms end somewhere between 3 to 4 weeks. Some
> sooner than that. The one that seems to last the longest is the
> inability to sleep. I have heard people say that may last forever. It
> varies.
>
> For me, tho, it is not the physical symptoms that are the main problem.
> It is more the mental -- and I'm not about to give you any advice there.
> I'm having a hard enough time with that myself.
>
> In general, I would say not to worry too much about the physical part.
> They will be an absolute bitch, but most of it will end soon enough. It
> is the mental part that will require the work.
>
> My opinion -- which could be wrong -- is that most of us sedate
> ourselves because of some other underlying problem. Could be
> depression, could be something else.
>
> I think that is where you need to go looking. If you don't get there, I
> don't think the drinking will go away.
>
> My two centavos.
>
> Good luck!

Two things:

1) I really don't think that you're the right person to be giving advice
judging on your posts over teh past month or two...

2) I'm 30. I've been drunk since I was 14 or 15 or so (literally, drunk
since then, along with a lot of other drugs and such). The shakes and
cold sweats were gone in about 4 DAYS, not weeks. The anxiety / panic
becomes manageable after a couple weeks.

The first week is rough since you're detoxing and you're trying to tell
yourself not to drink every damn minute of the day. The second and third
week are even harder for other reasons. Once the alcohol is out of your
system, and most of the physical symptoms of withdrawal are gone, your
head keeps going:

"Hey! See that wasn't so bad! You can stop anytime you want to! Why
don't you go out and get a bottle?"

"SEE?!? What did I tell you?!? You're fine with me, you don't need to
listen to those moron 'alcoholics', what the hell do they know? You can
stop anytime you want, you just proved that!"


And then you go out and get a bottle, then 4 months later, you find
yourself doing the same shit over and over.

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 03:38:12 -0500, Xanadu <xanadu@inorbit.com>
wrote:]

>
> 1) I really don't think that you're the right person to be giving advice
> judging on your posts over the past month or two...

I am qualified to give advice precisely because I am trying.
Failing and faltering, yes, but trying.

The know-it-alls who commonly post to this group add no value.
Maybe I don't either, but I think I come closer. I intend to,

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:29:24 -0600, "Gail" <gailathome@remove
thischarter.net> wrote:]

> Do you laugh constantly, too. I am sick and get high blood pressure just
> reading this crap.

It would be nice if you clarified a little. There is a lot of
crap that gets posted here (some by me), but knucklehead's
message was not among that.

[JB]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:408mrvk68j0tsra7ajfa04r4od0vlh0usq@4ax.com...
> [On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:21:35 -0800, A Knucklehead
> <aknucklehead2@hotmail.com> wrote:]
<snip>

> I am awake at the moment because I am trying to quit drinking
> again. I have a half bottle of booze it the kitchen that I am
> trying to not to think about -- but which is very much on my mind
> every second. I am sweating. Wiping my brow.
>
> It ain't easy.
>
> But, still, it is not this part which is the most difficult for
> me. I can get through this. I have before. It is the next
> part.

Harry, remembering that you've already had one alcoholic seizure, I'm
thinking that when you decide to quit drinking, you should not detox
at home by yourself.

Yours

JB

[Xanadu]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:16:41 -0500, The Other Harry wrote:

> [On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 03:38:12 -0500, Xanadu <xanadu@inorbit.com>
> wrote:]
>
>>
>> 1) I really don't think that you're the right person to be giving advice
>> judging on your posts over the past month or two...
>
> I am qualified to give advice precisely because I am trying.
> Failing and faltering, yes, but trying.
>
> The know-it-alls who commonly post to this group add no value.
> Maybe I don't either, but I think I come closer. I intend to,


OK, point made. I don't post much because I'm not that perfect. I put
myself in detox over the summer. I've slipped a couple times since, but
managed to get past it. I'm nice and dry right now, I'm trying to make
this stick, I'm really tired of that drinking crap.

[Shawster]

make sure you drink about a gallon of water a day. that will help with the
head and body aches.get some good food in you, and take a vitamin
supplement.

it will go away. every one is different, I drank a lot and didn't have the
shakes. but some people didn't drink a great amount, but had worse drying
times.

I had to keep laxatives handy.

best wishes

Shaw
"A Knucklehead" <aknucklehead2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vrm667goda4pe1@corp.supernews.com...
> About 225 lbs about 25lbs more than I should. (Beer gut of course)
>
> Shawster wrote:
> > how much do you weigh?
> >
> >
> > "A Knucklehead" <aknucklehead2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:vrlts671ie5ld6@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> >>How long does the symptoms (headaches, body aches, sweats and agitation)
> >
> > last for a drinker who is
> >
> >>quitting after about 20yrs. Not an everyday drinker, but almost.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Shawster]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:rbdmrvg4oebc04cu1sv41oqpftte0g68vf@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:29:24 -0600, "Gail" <gailathome@remove
> thischarter.net> wrote:]
>
> > Do you laugh constantly, too. I am sick and get high blood pressure just
> > reading this crap.
>
> It would be nice if you clarified a little. There is a lot of
> crap that gets posted here (some by me), but knucklehead's
> message was not among that.

harry...

nevermind.

[Xanadu]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:10:17 +0000, Shawster wrote:

> I had to keep laxatives handy.


Really? I was the opposite. The first day or so, I had to hold it a bit
so my body would keep some of the water in my system. After that, well...
you get the idea...

[Shawster]

"Xanadu" <xanadu@inorbit.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.19.13.17.07.807121@inorbit.com...
> On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:10:17 +0000, Shawster wrote:
>
> > I had to keep laxatives handy.
>
>
> Really? I was the opposite. The first day or so, I had to hold it a bit
> so my body would keep some of the water in my system. After that, well...
> you get the idea...

Like i said everyone is different. I had the same problem when I gave up
smoking. I didn't want to mention the insomnia as that can be triggered by
a suggestion.

oops.

>
>
>

[Bpyboy]

Yeah, me too. I got dehydrated as could be, every bit of water and fruit
juice I drank would go straight through, one way or the other.

I did find that some B-complex vitamins helped a bit. I had to make sure I had
some kind of food in my stomach, or they really tore my guts up!

also, a LOT of small meals, lots of water, and a lot of showering (to help calm
me down) helped a great deal.

Oh yeah, and having a bloody mary to slow you down isn't a good idea either!

John

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:58:37 -0500, Xanadu <xanadu@inorbit.com>
wrote:]

> I don't post much because I'm not that perfect. I put
> myself in detox over the summer. I've slipped a couple times since, but
> managed to get past it. I'm nice and dry right now, I'm trying to make
> this stick, I'm really tired of that drinking crap.

That was a mouthful.

What kind of detox program did you do?

The one I did was a one week county program. I think it was very
good. It helped me -- at least for a time. They put us on a
strict schedule, a good diet (kinda), monitored our vitals (did
they ever!), made us attend lots of meetings (AA included), and
things like that. Almost all the staff people are in recovery
themselves. They were very good.

I feel very fortunate to have found it right near where I live.
People come from all over Virginia to attend it. It isn't easy
to get into, but it is essentially free. Maybe $7 a day.

My only problem with it is that I do not think one week is long
enough for me. I can dry out, but I can't seem to get sober in
that time.

My psychiatrist told me about a three-month program near Richmond
that is supposed to be excellent. $40,000. It's probably well
worth that, but I am going to keep trying on my own for a while
longer before I cough up that much.

The drinking truly is crap. People who have never been there
really have no idea how bad it can be. I call it hell. It may
not be hell in the biblical sense of the word, but it is
certainly getting warm.

Once you get perfect, please stop posting. ;)

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:10:17 GMT, "Shawster"
<shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:]

> make sure you drink about a gallon of water a day. that will help with the
> head and body aches.get some good food in you, and take a vitamin
> supplement.

Isn't it a B complex that is supposed to be best? B or B1?

> it will go away. every one is different, I drank a lot and didn't have the
> shakes.

I get them. They are a prelude to a seizure.

As most people who read this will know, you don't get the shakes
when you drink. You get them when you don't drink. Those and a
few other things.

> I had to keep laxatives handy.

Laxatives?

When I stop drinking, that is not exactly my problem. I can blow
the toilet right off the floor.

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:17:07 -0500, Xanadu <xanadu@inorbit.com>
wrote:]

> Really? I was the opposite. The first day or so, I had to hold it a bit
> so my body would keep some of the water in my system. After that, well...
> you get the idea...

This is not a particularly delicate subject, but I agree with
you.

One problem is that you (one) need to watch is how any med's
interact with any bowl issues. Many of them do not help. The
last thing I need would be something that makes it worse. Worse
would not be good.

[Moonraker]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:39umrvg0ei3qgs86jsn69ce4eia3qpt4ov@4ax.com...
> The one I did was a one week county program. I think it was very
> good. It helped me -- at least for a time. They put us on a
> strict schedule, a good diet (kinda), monitored our vitals (did
> they ever!), made us attend lots of meetings (AA included), and
> things like that.

Sounds like one of our local programs, except ours usually start at 30 days
and go to 6 months or longer. The beginning "detoxer's" get to wear orange
jumpsuits and flip-flops. Ones who manage to escape the shakes get to spend
the days outside, walking up and down the local roads doing service work
under the watchful eye of a deputy sheriff. :>)

[The Other Harry]

[On 19 Nov 2003 13:42:51 GMT, bpyboy@aol.com (Bpyboy) wrote:]

> also, a LOT of small meals, lots of water, and a lot of showering (to help calm
> me down) helped a great deal.

Yes, yes, and yes.

Your comment about the showers particularly got my attention. I
get the sweats, and that makes me uncomfortable. It also makes
me stink. I tend to spend a lot of time in the shower.

> Oh yeah, and having a bloody mary to slow you down isn't a good idea either!

My favorite drink when I am trying not to drink is a hot bloody
Mary. The hotter, the better.

[Xanadu]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:39:56 -0500, The Other Harry wrote:

> It also makes
> me stink. I tend to spend a lot of time in the shower.


It makes me itch like freakin' mad! I still go through that a night or
two now and again. Last night being one time in the recent weeks. I just
couldn't stop itching! Driving me mad! Probably half the reason I
couldn't get any sleep last night.

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:34:58 -0500, "Moonraker"
<fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote:]

> Sounds like one of our local programs, except ours usually start at 30 days
> and go to 6 months or longer. The beginning "detoxer's" get to wear orange
> jumpsuits and flip-flops. Ones who manage to escape the shakes get to spend
> the days outside, walking up and down the local roads doing service work
> under the watchful eye of a deputy sheriff. :>)

Laughing...

That may be my next program. If I'm lucky.

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:11:54 -0500, Xanadu
<xanadu@inorbit.com> wrote:]

> It makes me itch like freakin' mad! I still go through that a night or
> two now and again. Last night being one time in the recent weeks. I just
> couldn't stop itching! Driving me mad! Probably half the reason I
> couldn't get any sleep last night.

I don't know if this is related, but I also get the itchies.
They are so bad that I discussed them with a dermatolgist last
year.

She says not to worry. It is just the winter itchies.

Maybe she'd like to know what it's like to have them. I'd
like to give her a case. See what it's like.

I wonder if this is related to the alcoholism. It might be.
I may have to look more into this.

[rosie read and post]

(((((((((((((gail)))))))))))))))
hope you feel well soon!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

in the practice of tolerance,
one's enemy is the best teacher.
...............................dalai lama







"Gail" <gailathome@remove thischarter.net> wrote in message
news:vrmaf9a5r2af4d@corp.supernews.com...
> Do you laugh constantly, too. I am sick and get high blood pressure
just
> reading this crap.
>
> Gail
>
> "A Knucklehead" <aknucklehead2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:vrlts671ie5ld6@corp.supernews.com...
> > How long does the symptoms (headaches, body aches, sweats and
agitation)
> last for a drinker who is
> > quitting after about 20yrs. Not an everyday drinker, but almost.
> >
>
>

[Robert McGregor]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:39umrvg0ei3qgs86jsn69ce4eia3qpt4ov@4ax.com...
> Once you get perfect, please stop posting. ;)

There may be an award for Harry @ alt.drunken.bastards He could demonstrate
how he can lay in the gutter, yet look down on the folk passing by.

Bob;-)

[Xanadu]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:57:22 -0500, The Other Harry wrote:

> [On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:11:54 -0500, Xanadu
> <xanadu@inorbit.com> wrote:]
>
>> It makes me itch like freakin' mad! I still go through that a night or
>> two now and again. Last night being one time in the recent weeks. I just
>> couldn't stop itching! Driving me mad! Probably half the reason I
>> couldn't get any sleep last night.
>
> I don't know if this is related, but I also get the itchies.
> They are so bad that I discussed them with a dermatolgist last
> year.
>
> She says not to worry. It is just the winter itchies.
>
> Maybe she'd like to know what it's like to have them. I'd
> like to give her a case. See what it's like.
>
> I wonder if this is related to the alcoholism. It might be.
> I may have to look more into this.

It could be, but she might also have a point. It rather dry out this
time of year. I just know that when I get the cold sweats, I also itch
like crazy. I dunno.

[Xanadu]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:42:06 -0500, The Other Harry wrote:

> [On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:58:37 -0500, Xanadu <xanadu@inorbit.com>
> wrote:]
>
>> I don't post much because I'm not that perfect. I put
>> myself in detox over the summer. I've slipped a couple times since, but
>> managed to get past it. I'm nice and dry right now, I'm trying to make
>> this stick, I'm really tired of that drinking crap.
>
> That was a mouthful.
>
> What kind of detox program did you do?
>
> The one I did was a one week county program. I think it was very
> good. It helped me -- at least for a time. They put us on a
> strict schedule, a good diet (kinda), monitored our vitals (did
> they ever!), made us attend lots of meetings (AA included), and
> things like that. Almost all the staff people are in recovery
> themselves. They were very good.
>
> I feel very fortunate to have found it right near where I live.
> People come from all over Virginia to attend it. It isn't easy
> to get into, but it is essentially free. Maybe $7 a day.
>
> My only problem with it is that I do not think one week is long
> enough for me. I can dry out, but I can't seem to get sober in
> that time.
>
> My psychiatrist told me about a three-month program near Richmond
> that is supposed to be excellent. $40,000. It's probably well
> worth that, but I am going to keep trying on my own for a while
> longer before I cough up that much.
>
> The drinking truly is crap. People who have never been there
> really have no idea how bad it can be. I call it hell. It may
> not be hell in the biblical sense of the word, but it is
> certainly getting warm.
>
> Once you get perfect, please stop posting. ;)


I was only in Detox for one week as that's all my insurance would cover.
I didn't cover any "rehab" time, just detox. So once I got off teh detox
list, I had to go. I kinda wish I could've stayed longer. It wasn't
until about a month ago that I found out that there's some state programs
that could've maybe found funds for me to stay longer, but even if I knew
that at the time, I highly doubt that my job would've "let" me be out
longer. I got laid off from that job a month or so ago (I'm still
looking for work), but besides the point.

I kinda wanted to stay longer, but I did realize all the "brain washing"
in teh world wouldn't change one simple fact:

*I* have to do this. (period)

[Bpyboy]

Yeah, that was my poisong too. Bloody with a HUGE dollop of horse radish in
there!

I know, waking up soaked in sweat really sucks, I was taking showers like 3-4
times a day. It's like when you are sick with a flu or something, and the
smell is just one of sickness!

So, as a sort of a compromise, I made super hot Virgin Mary's instead ( i still
do have a serious taste for them--all the blood, none of the mary!)
that's about it. and a lot of fruit and veggie juice and gatorade. anything
that doesn't have booze in it really.

[Bpyboy]

I didn't get any itches, but instead this really annoying twitching in my legs,
and especially in my feet. then, the second I would fall asleep, I would get
twitched awake again. it drove me freaking crazy. (and my dog too--on night I
twiched her right off my bed!)

I think it was probably a potassium deficiency, because it more or less went
away after a couple days. I also had this really creepy feeling, like I was
falling through the air. no matter what position I was lying in, it felt like
I was in some kind of free fall. one night it got so creepy and troubling that
I was either going to get some sleep, or start drinking again.

I did find that vitamin supplements are no substitute for a good diet. Without
proper food and hydration, all they ever did was hurt my stomach, and make my
pee turn bright yellow!

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:24:06 -0500, Xanadu
<xanadu@inorbit.com> wrote:]

> I was only in Detox for one week as that's all my insurance would cover.
> I didn't cover any "rehab" time, just detox.

I am very opinionated on this.

Our society spends lots of money putting us in jail and
fighting wars in other countries, but it is rather sparing
when it comes to making available health programs which could
help people who could use them.

I can't complain too much, tho. The program I got into cost
me close to nothing. The only problem was that I had to have
an alcohol deprivation seizure in order to get in there.
Things are getting a little late in the game by then.

I want to be a productive member of society, but I have no
insurance and I can't be spending $40,000 to go to a fancy
clinic. I don't need a fancy clinic. But a few weeks longer
would have been good. It would also have been better if it
had been easier to get in.

They run this place on the grounds of an otherwise mostly
abandoned state medical facility. The state probably spends
more money mowing the lawns there than it does on the detox
program.

> So once I got off the detox
> list, I had to go. I kinda wish I could've stayed longer. It wasn't
> until about a month ago that I found out that there's some state programs
> that could've maybe found funds for me to stay longer, but even if I knew
> that at the time, I highly doubt that my job would've "let" me be out
> longer. I got laid off from that job a month or so ago (I'm still
> looking for work), but besides the point.

I don't think that's besides the point. Insurance does not
pay for much. We lose our jobs, we get arrested, and that
sort of thing. We are an expense. But we don't mean to be.

I am basically a conservative redneck, but I don't think this
is a good system of healthcare.

> I kinda wanted to stay longer, but I did realize all the "brain washing"
> in teh world wouldn't change one simple fact:
>
> *I* have to do this. (period)

I'm with you there. I am the *only* person who can deal with
my drinking. Still, a little help around the edges is not too
bad.

[The Other Harry]

[On 19 Nov 2003 21:34:23 GMT, bpyboy@aol.com (Bpyboy)
wrote:]

> Yeah, that was my poisong too. Bloody with a HUGE dollop of horse radish in
> there!

I haven't tried the horse radish. Tobassco. (sp?)

(Btw, I did mean to say a virgin mary -- no booze in there.)

> I know, waking up soaked in sweat really sucks, I was taking showers like 3-4
> times a day. It's like when you are sick with a flu or something, and the
> smell is just one of sickness!

Lovely, isn't it? Perfectly lovely.

> So, as a sort of a compromise, I made super hot Virgin Mary's instead ( i still
> do have a serious taste for them--all the blood, none of the mary!)
> that's about it. and a lot of fruit and veggie juice and gatorade. anything
> that doesn't have booze in it really.

The fruits and veggies seem to be a big help. I gulp them
down. Maybe they replace the sugar or something. Whatever it
is, they do seem to help. I can eat an entire pineapple.

[The Other Harry]

[On 19 Nov 2003 21:34:23 GMT, bpyboy@aol.com (Bpyboy)
wrote:]

> and a lot of fruit and veggie juice and gatorade.

That still has me thinking. I knew it instinctively, but I
hadn't realized it consciously.

When I try to quit drinking, I literally wolf down the fruits
and veggies. It is not so much meats or cheeses or things
like that.

Coffee, yes. That's typical. That I knew.

Lemonade? I will drink an entire quart. I also gobble down
asparagus -- which makes your pee smell funny.

It must have something to do with the sugar or the hydration.

Whatever it is, this now goes on my list of steps. Increased
intake of fruits and veggies.

I just went and ate a mango. It was very good.

[Shawster]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3ULub.5084$Cc6.5027@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>
> "The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:39umrvg0ei3qgs86jsn69ce4eia3qpt4ov@4ax.com...
> > The one I did was a one week county program. I think it was very
> > good. It helped me -- at least for a time. They put us on a
> > strict schedule, a good diet (kinda), monitored our vitals (did
> > they ever!), made us attend lots of meetings (AA included), and
> > things like that.
>
> Sounds like one of our local programs, except ours usually start at 30
days
> and go to 6 months or longer. The beginning "detoxer's" get to wear
orange
> jumpsuits and flip-flops. Ones who manage to escape the shakes get to
spend
> the days outside, walking up and down the local roads doing service work
> under the watchful eye of a deputy sheriff. :>)

waa haa haa haa haa

http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/

booking #

00033769

>
>
>

[Shawster]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:q9nnrvgkld3qb4mfpm83e6erl4he4qgssl@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:24:06 -0500, Xanadu
> <xanadu@inorbit.com> wrote:]
>
> > I was only in Detox for one week as that's all my insurance would cover.
> > I didn't cover any "rehab" time, just detox.
>
> I am very opinionated on this.

take it to a bar

[Bpyboy]

You know what pissed me off for real, is that my insurance only covers like 3
days of medical detox, one time, and then out the door.

So, my first attempt at cleaning up, I showed up at the facility, at the
university hospital, and a fucking dermatology intern was there taking care of
the patients!

So i thought that with the stigma of having to go to alcohol rehab, and
knowing that 3 days of serious valium and vitamins wouldn't do a whole lot of
good, I turned and walked out.

Really, let a freaking med student shoot me with enough drugs to kill a horse,
and THAT would make me well? There were people sort of sluffing around in
gowns, just stoned out of there heads, and some really old drunks with IV
drips. the whole scene made me physically sick.

And so I did the stupid thing, and white knuckled it by an AA freind's house.
and YEAH, I got sick! I got sick as hell, for days. Still, old Rush can go
into rehab, no harm done, but joe blow does, and he carries a huge red check
mark on his records for good.

I personally think that is total and complete bullshit. Just because some of
us don't have the 40k for a week of golfing and, oh yeah, detox.

and so the stigma, and society's shame of people with addiction problems is
really preventing a lot of good folks from making the switch and trying to get
well.

the whole deal pisses me off. I got SICK SICK, and chose to stay by my buddies
house, as his father literally slugged him in the head, and tied him down to
the bed for a couple days, and let him dry out "old school", he was good with
the wildcat moonshine. When I would say something like "i'd kill for a bloody
mary" he was like "i'll kill you if you drink one"

I'll tell you, by the end of that week, I wanted to kill him. I was pissed.
he had absolutley no compasion.

then I was dry about another week, and his approach, although screwed up, made
a little more sense to me. the important thing was not to drink, at least at
first. then worry about the actual sobriety problems once the booze and some
of the physical problems (nausea, the trots, lack of appetite) passed that I
could focus on getting well between the ears.

that's the day's gripe,
Doing well, almost 3 months dry!

John

[Shawster]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:jrTub.6121$86.193124@twister.tampabay.rr.com. ..
>
> "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:3ULub.5084$Cc6.5027@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > "The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > news:39umrvg0ei3qgs86jsn69ce4eia3qpt4ov@4ax.com...
> > > The one I did was a one week county program. I think it was very
> > > good. It helped me -- at least for a time. They put us on a
> > > strict schedule, a good diet (kinda), monitored our vitals (did
> > > they ever!), made us attend lots of meetings (AA included), and
> > > things like that.
> >
> > Sounds like one of our local programs, except ours usually start at 30
> days
> > and go to 6 months or longer. The beginning "detoxer's" get to wear
> orange
> > jumpsuits and flip-flops. Ones who manage to escape the shakes get to
> spend
> > the days outside, walking up and down the local roads doing service work
> > under the watchful eye of a deputy sheriff. :>)
>
> waa haa haa haa haa
>
> http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/
>
> booking #
>
> 00033769
>
oops sorry, it's in frames. go to inquiries online, then arrest inquiry.




> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[The Other Harry]

[On 20 Nov 2003 00:05:17 GMT, bpyboy@aol.com (Bpyboy) wrote:]

> that's the day's gripe,

It was good one.

> Doing well, almost 3 months dry!

Three months is also good. I have yet to get there. I have got
to the one month a couple times, but I've never got to the
three.

One thing your message caused me to think about is that maybe we
need to get pissed off in order to quit. It might not be
exactly that, but it may be something like that.

I can do that.

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <vrlts671ie5ld6@corp.supernews.com>, A Knucklehead
<aknucklehead2@hotmail.com> writes
>How long does the symptoms (headaches, body aches, sweats and
>agitation) last for a drinker who is quitting after about 20yrs. Not
>an everyday drinker, but almost.
>
My recollection is that the really severe ones lasted around 4/5 days -
and by severe I mean the shakes so bad that I could barely walk and
awful panic attacks. After that I felt reasonably good, and after around
ten days they were to me unnoticeable. Then again I had been drinking
heavily for only two years, and this was after a 17 day vodka binge - it
may be more for you.

I found that librium was useful in the first few days to control the
anxiety, and VitB1is helpful for the shakes. I would also suggest you
may want to work with your doctor - mine gave me some liquid food
supplement that helped when I could not take solids. He could also
follow up with after a few days to check on you, or suggest other
dietary supplements for when you can't eat.

And I would strongly suggest some type of ongoing support such as AA.

The very best of luck to you my friend.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <bpf71c$1lqpda$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert
McGregor <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> writes
>
>"A Knucklehead" <aknucklehead2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:vrm6g45m0uti4d@corp.supernews.com...
>> I've been dry for two weeks and really am surprised by my lack of cravings
>for booze. The physical
>> aches are more of a problem. As for underlying problems, I really don't
>have any big issues, I've
>> got it made. Good job, family, etc. I just started drinking when I was
>in high school, through
>> college and just didn't stop. I enjoyed it. I don't anymore as I'm
>approaching 40, and it is
>> starting to effect my health. I asked myself a few weeks ago why I am
>still doing something I no
>> longer enjoy. If I can't quit it alone I will definitely be seeking help.
>>
>
>Good Luck! Amazing what adventures can be in store for the non drinker.
>Sobriety enables more fun experiences than I ever dreamed of, when I let it.
>Meanwhile, if the AA recruiting squad don't get to you first, rosie the grim
>reaper will probly be along later to intoxicate you with smarm, before
>impaling your butt with her lethal dildo.

What Swiss finishing school did you go?
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <20031119164013.29271.00000561@mb-m12.aol.com>, Bpyboy
<bpyboy@aol.com> writes
>I didn't get any itches, but instead this really annoying twitching in my legs,
>and especially in my feet. then, the second I would fall asleep, I would get
>twitched awake again. it drove me freaking crazy. (and my dog too--on night I
>twiched her right off my bed!)

That is one of the worst parts of it. In sobers people it is called
'restless legs' syndrome and some people suffer with it for years!
Imagine.
>
>
>I did find that vitamin supplements are no substitute for a good diet. Without
>proper food and hydration, all they ever did was hurt my stomach, and make my
>pee turn bright yellow!

That is lack of water - i.e. dehydration. Pee should be a lightish
yellow colour if u are properly hydrated. And congrats on your three
months.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <gb0nrvg52od2v85lbalr5udjeh0buqqvtp@4ax.com>, The Other Harry
<hc.me@ix.netcom.com> writes
>[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:10:17 GMT, "Shawster"
><shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:]
>
>> make sure you drink about a gallon of water a day. that will help with the
>> head and body aches.get some good food in you, and take a vitamin
>> supplement.
>
>Isn't it a B complex that is supposed to be best? B or B1?

B1 - thiamine. Oh the memories.....

--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <vrmaf9a5r2af4d@corp.supernews.com>, Gail
<gailathome@remove.thischarter.net.invalid> writes
>Do you laugh constantly, too. I am sick and get high blood pressure just
>reading this crap.
>
>Gail

Don't then.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[rosie read and post]

LOL!
i read that the malcontents had stooped to a new ghastly
low...........................
(a true measure of their supposed recovery)


--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

in the practice of tolerance,
one's enemy is the best teacher.
...............................dalai lama







"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:99Nsu6A20gv$Ew4a@aol.com...
> In message <bpf71c$1lqpda$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert
> McGregor <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> writes
> >
> >"A Knucklehead" <aknucklehead2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:vrm6g45m0uti4d@corp.supernews.com...
> >> I've been dry for two weeks and really am surprised by my lack
of cravings
> >for booze. The physical
> >> aches are more of a problem. As for underlying problems, I
really don't
> >have any big issues, I've
> >> got it made. Good job, family, etc. I just started drinking
when I was
> >in high school, through
> >> college and just didn't stop. I enjoyed it. I don't anymore
as I'm
> >approaching 40, and it is
> >> starting to effect my health. I asked myself a few weeks ago
why I am
> >still doing something I no
> >> longer enjoy. If I can't quit it alone I will definitely be
seeking help.
> >>
> >
> >Good Luck! Amazing what adventures can be in store for the non
drinker.
> >Sobriety enables more fun experiences than I ever dreamed of,
when I let it.
> >Meanwhile, if the AA recruiting squad don't get to you first,
rosie the grim
> >reaper will probly be along later to intoxicate you with smarm,
before
> >impaling your butt with her lethal dildo.
>
> What Swiss finishing school did you go?
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

[rosie read and post]

> >Isn't it a B complex that is supposed to be best? B or B1?
>
> B1 - thiamine. Oh the memories.....
>
> --
> Jonathan Bratt


add 1000meq of VITAMIN B12.

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie read and post" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:S7qvb.52874$Vu6.50909@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> LOL!
> i read that the malcontents had stooped to a new ghastly
> low...........................
> (a true measure of their supposed recovery)
>
>
From: "rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ZPSl5.19140$E05.340458@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>

>i am thinking about asking my pdoc to increase my celexa to
>60mg..........anyone else in here have good results with that dosage?
>my 40mg seems to be "pooping out"...........

From: "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
Message-ID: < wkHa.22568$fe.447991@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>
>YES, whatever works!
>i belong to the "old school" of counting sobriety from the LAST
>drink/drug,
>but i don't expect
>everyone to do so, just because i did!

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:A98Ka.109221$Xl.2092045@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> i will never be recovered..............................

[Shawster]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Kd8h2CDw9gv$EwdO@aol.com...
> In message <20031119164013.29271.00000561@mb-m12.aol.com>, Bpyboy
> <bpyboy@aol.com> writes
> >I didn't get any itches, but instead this really annoying twitching in my
legs,
> >and especially in my feet. then, the second I would fall asleep, I would
get
> >twitched awake again. it drove me freaking crazy. (and my dog too--on
night I
> >twiched her right off my bed!)
>
> That is one of the worst parts of it. In sobers people it is called
> 'restless legs' syndrome and some people suffer with it for years!
> Imagine.
> >
> >
> >I did find that vitamin supplements are no substitute for a good diet.
Without
> >proper food and hydration, all they ever did was hurt my stomach, and
make my
> >pee turn bright yellow!
>
> That is lack of water - i.e. dehydration. Pee should be a lightish
> yellow colour if u are properly hydrated. And congrats on your three
> months.

now you're a urine expert?

some sort of trauma about 2 years old I would suspect.

BTW, that would be the vitamin B coming through if it were bright yelow.

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <Gxwvb.22918$KI4.7373@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, Shawster
<shawster@tampabay.rr.com> writes
>now you're a urine expert?

No - but my friend the urologist is.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[The Other Harry]

[On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:11:30 +0000, Jonathan Bratt
<jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:]

> No - but my friend the urologist is.

To be serious here for a minute, what is it that affects the
color and smell of urine?

Mine varies greatly. It isn't simply hydration or diet. It
doesn't seem to be.

[Moonraker]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1mAe4B3CC2v$EwYC@aol.com...
> In message <Gxwvb.22918$KI4.7373@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, Shawster
> <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> writes
> >now you're a urine expert?
>
> No - but my friend the urologist is.
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

I thought all your "friends" were amateur proctologists.

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <hlqurv03nho4m97972vqtsu72q57fj1sa7@4ax.com>, The Other Harry
<hc.me@ix.netcom.com> writes
>[On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:11:30 +0000, Jonathan Bratt
><jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:]
>
>> No - but my friend the urologist is.
>
>To be serious here for a minute, what is it that affects the
>color and smell of urine?
>
>Mine varies greatly. It isn't simply hydration or diet. It
>doesn't seem to be.

Many things: hydration is a major one however. If your urine is dark in
colour it is advisable to drink some water until the colour lightens,
Straw colour is generally considered optimal. During withdrawal urine
tends to be a very dark yellow, drinking plenty of water is a good idea.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <tdKvb.1217$87.520@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, Moonraker
<moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
>
>"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:1mAe4B3CC2v$EwYC@aol.com...
>> In message <Gxwvb.22918$KI4.7373@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, Shawster
>> <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> writes
>> >now you're a urine expert?
>>
>> No - but my friend the urologist is.
>> --
>> Jonathan Bratt
>
>I thought all your "friends" were amateur proctologists.
>
>
Nothing amateur about them honeybuns, all your friends of course being
4-legged ones. Don't forget to pick the sheep hairs out of your groin -
they may give you tics.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Shawster]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:$rnMLcFev3v$EwoA@aol.com...
> In message <hlqurv03nho4m97972vqtsu72q57fj1sa7@4ax.com>, The Other Harry
> <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> writes
> >[On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:11:30 +0000, Jonathan Bratt
> ><jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:]
> >
> >> No - but my friend the urologist is.
> >
> >To be serious here for a minute, what is it that affects the
> >color and smell of urine?
> >
> >Mine varies greatly. It isn't simply hydration or diet. It
> >doesn't seem to be.
>
> Many things: hydration is a major one however. If your urine is dark in
> colour it is advisable to drink some water until the colour lightens,
> Straw colour is generally considered optimal. During withdrawal urine
> tends to be a very dark yellow, drinking plenty of water is a good idea.

so how long do you store your urine in the fridge?

and do you poke through your feces?

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <0nOvb.26307$KI4.4092@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, Shawster
<shawster@tampabay.rr.com> writes
>
>"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:$rnMLcFev3v$EwoA@aol.com...
>> In message <hlqurv03nho4m97972vqtsu72q57fj1sa7@4ax.com>, The Other Harry
>> <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> writes
>> >[On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:11:30 +0000, Jonathan Bratt
>> ><jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:]
>> >
>> >> No - but my friend the urologist is.
>> >
>> >To be serious here for a minute, what is it that affects the
>> >color and smell of urine?
>> >
>> >Mine varies greatly. It isn't simply hydration or diet. It
>> >doesn't seem to be.
>>
>> Many things: hydration is a major one however. If your urine is dark in
>> colour it is advisable to drink some water until the colour lightens,
>> Straw colour is generally considered optimal. During withdrawal urine
>> tends to be a very dark yellow, drinking plenty of water is a good idea.
>
>so how long do you store your urine in the fridge?

??
>
>and do you poke through your feces?
>
??
--
Jonathan Bratt

[The Other Harry]

[On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:00:12 GMT, "Shawster"
<shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:]

> so how long do you store your urine in the fridge?
>
> and do you poke through your feces?

The reason for this post was?

[Mikey]

I think Shaw has been sneaking drinks again. I can't think of any reason a
sober person would try to derail this thread.

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:gj40svk1n9j2tes6f8jh0a9opnjkdec2rd@4ax.com...
> [On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:00:12 GMT, "Shawster"
> <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:]
>
> > so how long do you store your urine in the fridge?
> >
> > and do you poke through your feces?
>
> The reason for this post was?

[Shawster]

well mikey if I gave a rat's ass what you thought...

I'm derailing a thread by asking why homo the clown studies the color of his
friends' urine? he probably gives it the old taste test too.

his friend is a urologist, so it makes it ok.


"Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
news:WhVvb.12550$Hb.3702201@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.ne t...
> I think Shaw has been sneaking drinks again. I can't think of any reason a
> sober person would try to derail this thread.
>
> "The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:gj40svk1n9j2tes6f8jh0a9opnjkdec2rd@4ax.com...
> > [On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:00:12 GMT, "Shawster"
> > <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:]
> >
> > > so how long do you store your urine in the fridge?
> > >
> > > and do you poke through your feces?
> >
> > The reason for this post was?
>
>
>

[The Other Harry]

[On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 05:19:59 GMT, "Shawster"
<shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:]

> well mikey if I gave a rat's ass what you thought...
>
> I'm derailing a thread by asking why homo the clown studies the color of his
> friends' urine? he probably gives it the old taste test too.
>
> his friend is a urologist, so it makes it ok.

What the hell is wrong with you that you make posts like
that? There is something.

At least I know I'm crazy. You don't seem to have
realized that yet as to yourself. I don't think you've
found any kind of religion.

You need a little work. I do too, but I'm evidently not
the only one.

[Robert McGregor]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:73l0svc8e1g7kgh9rr8aftvrn2ntqo5g35@4ax.com...
> [On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 05:19:59 GMT, "Shawster"
> <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:]
>
> > well mikey if I gave a rat's ass what you thought...
> >
> > I'm derailing a thread by asking why homo the clown studies the color of
his
> > friends' urine? he probably gives it the old taste test too.
> >
> > his friend is a urologist, so it makes it ok.
>
> What the hell is wrong with you that you make posts like
> that? There is something.
>
> At least I know I'm crazy. You don't seem to have
> realized that yet as to yourself. I don't think you've
> found any kind of religion.
>
> You need a little work. I do too, but I'm evidently not
> the only one.

Harry is probably the only one here crazy enough to imagine he can drink
himself to sanity. Suppose there is a logic in it somewhere, women certainly
got more beautiful the more I got in *my* cups.

Then, alone with new Madonna, I was powerless other than,
to express a urine demonstration, on the floor if not the can.
There probly was a fart or two, can't remember any more;
an evening to remember, climaxed, with a snore!

Bob, the mongrel mugger

[Kai]

Shawster wrote:

> "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
> news:WhVvb.12550$Hb.3702201@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.ne t...
>
>>I think Shaw has been sneaking drinks again. I can't think of any reason a
>>sober person would try to derail this thread.
>>
>>"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>news:gj40svk1n9j2tes6f8jh0a9opnjkdec2rd@4ax.com...
>>
>>>[On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:00:12 GMT, "Shawster"
>>><shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:]
>>>
>>>
>>>>so how long do you store your urine in the fridge?
>>>>
>>>>and do you poke through your feces?
>>>
>>>The reason for this post was?
>>
> well mikey if I gave a rat's ass what you thought...
>
> I'm derailing a thread by asking why homo the clown studies the
> color of his friends' urine? he probably gives it the old taste
> test too.
>
> his friend is a urologist, so it makes it ok.

The reason for this post is that people like Shawster need someone to
bash. Rosie's been kind of silent lately, so Jonathan will do. And
like with Rosie, the issue is not about their opinions, but about
their other characteristics that have absolutely nothing to do with
alcoholism. Rosie was constantly abused about her assumed overweight,
and Jonathan for being gay. The world is a schoolyard for folks like
Shaw, and they want to make sure they are not being bullied by being
the bully ones.

Kai

[Robert McGregor]

"Kai" <soberon@nospamo.luukku.com> wrote in message
news:bppr7h$844$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> Shawster wrote:
>
> > "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
> > news:WhVvb.12550$Hb.3702201@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.ne t...
> >
> >>I think Shaw has been sneaking drinks again. I can't think of any reason
a
> >>sober person would try to derail this thread.
> >>
> >>"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >>news:gj40svk1n9j2tes6f8jh0a9opnjkdec2rd@4ax.com...
> >>
> >>>[On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:00:12 GMT, "Shawster"
> >>><shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>so how long do you store your urine in the fridge?
> >>>>
> >>>>and do you poke through your feces?
> >>>
> >>>The reason for this post was?
> >>
> > well mikey if I gave a rat's ass what you thought...
> >
> > I'm derailing a thread by asking why homo the clown studies the
> > color of his friends' urine? he probably gives it the old taste
> > test too.
> >
> > his friend is a urologist, so it makes it ok.
>
> The reason for this post is that people like Shawster need someone to
> bash. Rosie's been kind of silent lately, so Jonathan will do. And
> like with Rosie, the issue is not about their opinions, but about
> their other characteristics that have absolutely nothing to do with
> alcoholism. Rosie was constantly abused about her assumed overweight,
> and Jonathan for being gay. The world is a schoolyard for folks like
> Shaw, and they want to make sure they are not being bullied by being
> the bully ones.
>

Seems you are a very selective reader. Rosie arguably referred to her arse
ROTFLMAO far more often than the rest of the posters here combined, and the
vast majority of posts directed at her were more concerned with the
accusatory lies she told here to protect her hypocracy, than anything to do
with her arse.

Bob

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <3sXvb.27916$KI4.16236@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, Shawster
<shawster@tampabay.rr.com> writes
>well mikey if I gave a rat's ass what you thought...
>
>I'm derailing a thread by asking why homo the clown

3 bigots and counting....

>studies the color of his
>friends' urine?

Where have I said this - or are you merely projecting your fantasies?
> he probably gives it the old taste test too.

Mmm - I think you are projecting
>
>his friend is a urologist, so it makes it ok.

My friend is a urologist so I get information.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <bppr7h$844$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>, Kai
<soberon@nospamo.luukku.com> writes
>The reason for this post is that people like Shawster need someone to
>bash. Rosie's been kind of silent lately, so Jonathan will do. And like
>with Rosie, the issue is not about their opinions, but about their
>other characteristics that have absolutely nothing to do with
>alcoholism. Rosie was constantly abused about her assumed overweight,
>and Jonathan for being gay. The world is a schoolyard for folks like
>Shaw, and they want to make sure they are not being bullied by being
>the bully ones.

Spot on! Shaw and McGoogle and Moonshine are essentially bullies. They
are quite likely to be personal inadequates IRL who feel the need to
'dominate' others in some form on here to compensate for this. I'm more
than happy to be challenged on my opinions but they seem unable to do
that. Consequently we have comments such as 'got AIDS yet fagboy?';
'homo the clown' 'faggot'. None of these are remotely relevant to
anything, they merely reveal the innate prejudice and nastiness of the
posters - if that was in doubt. Others will come to their own
conclusions and judge any other comments they make accordingly.

The only way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Robert McGregor]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:s$fIOauANJw$Ewyl@aol.com...
> In message <bppr7h$844$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>, Kai
> <soberon@nospamo.luukku.com> writes
> >The reason for this post is that people like Shawster need someone to
> >bash. Rosie's been kind of silent lately, so Jonathan will do. And like
> >with Rosie, the issue is not about their opinions, but about their
> >other characteristics that have absolutely nothing to do with
> >alcoholism. Rosie was constantly abused about her assumed overweight,
> >and Jonathan for being gay. The world is a schoolyard for folks like
> >Shaw, and they want to make sure they are not being bullied by being
> >the bully ones.
>
> Spot on! Shaw and McGoogle and Moonshine are essentially bullies. They
> are quite likely to be personal inadequates IRL who feel the need to
> 'dominate' others in some form on here to compensate for this. I'm more
> than happy to be challenged on my opinions but they seem unable to do
> that. Consequently we have comments such as 'got AIDS yet fagboy?';
> 'homo the clown' 'faggot'. None of these are remotely relevant to
> anything, they merely reveal the innate prejudice and nastiness of the
> posters - if that was in doubt. Others will come to their own
> conclusions and judge any other comments they make accordingly.
>
> The only way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them.
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

lol @ a non alcoholic faggot standing up in an alcoholism newsgroup. This
should be fun:)

Bob the mongrel mugger

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <bpps7i$1rjaps$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert
McGregor <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> writes
>>
>
>Seems you are a very selective reader. Rosie arguably referred to her arse
>ROTFLMAO far more often than the rest of the posters here combined, and the
>vast majority of posts directed at her were more concerned with the
>accusatory lies she told here to protect her hypocracy, than anything to do
>with her arse.

And the abusive 'faggot' comments directed at me?
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <bpq5c5$1qt60t$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert
McGregor <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> writes
>
>lol @ a non alcoholic faggot standing up in an alcoholism newsgroup.
>This should be fun:)

Why the reference to my sexuality if not for the purposes of mere abuse?
--
Jonathan Bratt

[JB]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:s$fIOauANJw$Ewyl@aol.com...
> In message <bppr7h$844$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>, Kai
> <soberon@nospamo.luukku.com> writes
> >The reason for this post is that people like Shawster need someone
to
> >bash. Rosie's been kind of silent lately, so Jonathan will do. And
like
> >with Rosie, the issue is not about their opinions, but about their
> >other characteristics that have absolutely nothing to do with
> >alcoholism. Rosie was constantly abused about her assumed
overweight,
> >and Jonathan for being gay. The world is a schoolyard for folks
like
> >Shaw, and they want to make sure they are not being bullied by
being
> >the bully ones.
>
> Spot on! Shaw and McGoogle and Moonshine are essentially bullies.
They
> are quite likely to be personal inadequates IRL who feel the need to
> 'dominate' others in some form on here to compensate for this. I'm
more
> than happy to be challenged on my opinions but they seem unable to
do
> that. Consequently we have comments such as 'got AIDS yet fagboy?';
> 'homo the clown' 'faggot'. None of these are remotely relevant to
> anything, they merely reveal the innate prejudice and nastiness of
the
> posters - if that was in doubt. Others will come to their own
> conclusions and judge any other comments they make accordingly.
>
> The only way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them.
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

FWIW, as far as I can tell, all you've managed to acheive by "standing
up" to those who you think have been bullying you, is more of the
comments that you don't like. LOL . That makes you not as bright as
you like to think you are :^))

Yours

JB

[Robert McGregor]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Wv$GKqvBrJw$Ew11@aol.com...
> In message <bpq5c5$1qt60t$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert
> McGregor <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> writes
> >
> >lol @ a non alcoholic faggot standing up in an alcoholism newsgroup.
> >This should be fun:)
>
> Why the reference to my sexuality if not for the purposes of mere abuse?
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

lol You still haven't realised? It's great troll bait, for the likes of you
standing up here. Don't need to keep your back to the wall though, 'till the
grim reaper rides in on her dildo.

Bob;-)

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <bpq770$3gg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
writes
>FWIW, as far as I can tell, all you've managed to acheive by "standing
>up" to those who you think have been bullying you, is more of the
>comments that you don't like. LOL . That makes you not as bright as
>you like to think you are :^))

I will not let anti-gay abuse go unchallenged - if they were calling a
black person 'nigger', should that go unchallenged?
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Kai]

Jonathan Bratt wrote:

> In message <bpq770$3gg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
> writes
>
>> FWIW, as far as I can tell, all you've managed to acheive by "standing
>> up" to those who you think have been bullying you, is more of the
>> comments that you don't like. LOL . That makes you not as bright as
>> you like to think you are :^))
>
>
> I will not let anti-gay abuse go unchallenged - if they were calling a
> black person 'nigger', should that go unchallenged?

That's different, Jonathan. It's too bad rap here where *anyone* could
actually be of any colour. Some of those aggreeing on the evils of
homosexuality could be blacks. Nobody wants to aggravate fellow
bullies because the trip from the circle to the center is very short
and can be travelled fast with a nice push.

Kai

[rosie read and post]

>.............. Rosie's been kind of silent lately,

my november killfile is a wonderful
thing.....................................it allows me to skip all
the nasty posts from the malcontents, and not clutter this place
with argumentative crap of my own.
it is amazing that the same folks, land in that file, over and over!





> And
> like with Rosie, the issue is not about their opinions, but about
> their other characteristics that have absolutely nothing to do
with
> alcoholism. Rosie was constantly abused about her assumed
overweight,


they should only know........................................
;)

[rosie read and post]

> The world is a schoolyard for folks like
> Shaw, and they want to make sure they are not being bullied by
being
> the bully ones.
>
> Kai
>


i suspect you "hit the nail on the head" with this one kai!

[Kai]

JB wrote:

>
> FWIW, as far as I can tell, all you've managed to acheive by "standing
> up" to those who you think have been bullying you, is more of the
> comments that you don't like. LOL . That makes you not as bright as
> you like to think you are :^))

What are you trying to say, then? Shut up, and let idiot hatemongers
spout bigotry at will? You seem to be of the opinion it isn't worth
one's while to respond to bullying, yet for some reason you find it
worth your while to respond to responses to bullying. For reasons yet
unclear you find it more important to silence the 'standing up' than
the 'bullying'. Unless, of course, you find the "faggot, fudgepacker,
urinedrinker" talk not bullying at all, but rather normal, balanced
adult conversation. This naturally makes it quite clear where you stand.

Kai

[rosie read and post]

>.............. Shaw and McGoogle and Moonshine are essentially
bullies.


ROTFLMAO!
they sound like active alcoholics to me!

[Robert McGregor]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2qyebl21YKw$Ewh+@aol.com...
> In message <bpq770$3gg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
> writes
> >FWIW, as far as I can tell, all you've managed to acheive by "standing
> >up" to those who you think have been bullying you, is more of the
> >comments that you don't like. LOL . That makes you not as bright as
> >you like to think you are :^))
>
> I will not let anti-gay abuse go unchallenged - if they were calling a
> black person 'nigger', should that go unchallenged?
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

So calling you a non alcoholic faggot, in context of your proclaimed
aberration, given the designation of this group, is anti-gay abuse? At least
that explains why your arse is still hanging around here. You're on a
mission. Now Doctor non alcoholic faggot is going to wave his arse around
"helping" suffering alcoholics. This should be interesting.

Bob the mongrel mugger

[rosie read and post]

jonathan,
you know the deal......................."those that can't, call
names!"

mcgoogle says i referred to my arse alot........................

ROTFLMAO! <---------ass


his comments to you are typical homophobia, and in this world he can
still, unfortunately get away with that.
do you suppose, if you were black he would be calling you names
referencing that?
its all crap, and its typical of not being in recovery!
(he convinced himself that he is RECOVERED, he stopped changing,
quit his support groups, and this is what happens)

when i want to skip a meeting, or a reading, or a prayer, all i have
to do is remind myself of moonshine and mcgoogle!



--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

to avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing.
........................elbert hubbard



"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ev9EqOvJqJw$EwUN@aol.com...
> In message <bpps7i$1rjaps$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert
> McGregor <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> writes
> >>
> >
> >Seems you are a very selective reader. Rosie arguably referred to
her arse
> >ROTFLMAO far more often than the rest of the posters here
combined, and the
> >vast majority of posts directed at her were more concerned with
the
> >accusatory lies she told here to protect her hypocracy, than
anything to do
> >with her arse.
>
> And the abusive 'faggot' comments directed at me?
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie read and post" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:K52wb.69200$Eq1.61799@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> you know the deal......................."those that can't, call
> names!"
>
> mcgoogle says

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie read and post" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:T%1wb.69179$Eq1.57641@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >.............. Shaw and McGoogle and Moonshine are essentially
> bullies.
>
>
> ROTFLMAO!
> they sound like active alcoholics to me!
>
>

I was wondering how long it would take you to validate Kai's query about
"abuse" of alcoholics here. From what I recall, you classify a statement
such as yours as violence. You Big Bully!

hahahahaha

Bob the mongrel mugger

[JB]

"Kai" <soberon@nospamo.luukku.com> wrote in message
news:bpqa74$14$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> JB wrote:
>
> >
> > FWIW, as far as I can tell, all you've managed to acheive by
"standing
> > up" to those who you think have been bullying you, is more of the
> > comments that you don't like. LOL . That makes you not as bright
as
> > you like to think you are :^))
>
> What are you trying to say, then? Shut up, and let idiot hatemongers
> spout bigotry at will? You seem to be of the opinion it isn't worth
> one's while to respond to bullying, yet for some reason you find it
> worth your while to respond to responses to bullying. For reasons
yet
> unclear you find it more important to silence the 'standing up' than
> the 'bullying'. Unless, of course, you find the "faggot,
fudgepacker,
> urinedrinker" talk not bullying at all, but rather normal, balanced
> adult conversation. This naturally makes it quite clear where you
stand.
>
> Kai

Kai,

Not at all. If I wanted to say something about the way someone
treats another person, I would. I do.

FWIW, whatever contribution I made to any discussion about Johnathan's
sexuality wouldn't change the behaviour of any other contributor.
Furthermore, as Johnathan's sexuality has nothing to do with my main
interest in being here - ie: helping myself to not drink- I prefer to
not get involved in his fight.

Yours

JB

[Shawster]

"rosie read and post" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:K52wb.69200$Eq1.61799@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> jonathan,
> you know the deal......................."those that can't, call
> names!"

and then she calls names
>
> mcgoogle says i referred to my arse alot........................

so That means you can't right?

>
> ROTFLMAO! <---------ass


>
>

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <bpqabj$1qp494$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert
McGregor <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> writes
>
>"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:2qyebl21YKw$Ewh+@aol.com...
>> In message <bpq770$3gg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
>> writes
>> >FWIW, as far as I can tell, all you've managed to acheive by "standing
>> >up" to those who you think have been bullying you, is more of the
>> >comments that you don't like. LOL . That makes you not as bright as
>> >you like to think you are :^))
>>
>> I will not let anti-gay abuse go unchallenged - if they were calling a
>> black person 'nigger', should that go unchallenged?
>> --
>> Jonathan Bratt
>
>So calling you a non alcoholic faggot, in context of your proclaimed
>aberration,

What aberration would that be McGoogle?

--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <bpqbvv$u1b$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
writes
>FWIW, whatever contribution I made to any discussion about Johnathan's
>sexuality wouldn't change the behaviour of any other contributor.
>Furthermore, as Johnathan's sexuality has nothing to do with my main
>interest in being here - ie: helping myself to not drink- I prefer to
>not get involved in his fight.

Yet you constantly question and challenge my responses to this abuse.
Why might that be if you don't want to get involved?
--
Jonathan Bratt

[rosie read and post]

> JB wrote:
>
> >
> > FWIW, as far as I can tell, all you've managed to acheive by
"standing
> > up" to those who you think have been bullying you,



THINK?
i rest my case JB.....................



>
> What are you trying to say, then? Shut up, and let idiot
hatemongers
> spout bigotry at will?


yes, i think that is EXACTLY what he/she is saying!



>You seem to be of the opinion it isn't worth
> one's while to respond to bullying, yet for some reason you find
it
> worth your while to respond to responses to bullying.
<For reasons yet
> unclear you find it more important to silence the 'standing up'
than
> the 'bullying'.


not unclear at all...................JB is NOT who she/he says
he/she is!
the "anonymous" newcomers like JB, have been bullsh**ing for quite
some time!

[JB]

"rosie read and post" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:443wb.59752$Vu6.56213@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...

> > JB wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > FWIW, as far as I can tell, all you've managed to acheive by
> "standing
> > > up" to those who you think have been bullying you,

>
> THINK?
> i rest my case JB.....................

LOL What case ?

<snip>

JB

[Blue Moon]

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 12:21:09 +0000, Jonathan Bratt
<jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:

>In message <bpq770$3gg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
>writes
>>FWIW, as far as I can tell, all you've managed to acheive by "standing
>>up" to those who you think have been bullying you, is more of the
>>comments that you don't like. LOL . That makes you not as bright as
>>you like to think you are :^))
>
>I will not let anti-gay abuse go unchallenged - if they were calling a
>black person 'nigger', should that go unchallenged?

I do not approve of the abuse you've been subjected to. Your response
to the questions on urine were appropriate and on-topic, and do not
warrant the abusive responses you've received.

But perhaps one difference between us is that I don't expect to change
anyone else's behaviour. I try to only highlight bullshit which
relates to alcoholism. So you can be your own worst enemy. To a
black person I'd suggest they "rise above" the name-calling.
Alcoholics CAN be like children, simply because alcohol inhibits the
mental maturing process. Let's face it, many of us are blitheringly
insane by the time we quit drinking, and after years of alcohol abuse
it can take time to even get back to where we were when starting
drinking.

So what this demonstrates to me is how amazing organisations such as
AA can continue to exist and even be good places to go, considering
the very nature of the people they comprise.

In your case you can either continue trying to change others, or you
can accept that there are those who will be feeling fear of your
sexuality. Your retaliation will only add fuel to the fear, it
doesn't change anything.

--
Blue Moon

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <ea3c1ab5f91254fc257b8688c984633e@news.teranews.com >, Blue
Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
>On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 12:21:09 +0000, Jonathan Bratt
><jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>In message <bpq770$3gg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
>>writes
>>>FWIW, as far as I can tell, all you've managed to acheive by "standing
>>>up" to those who you think have been bullying you, is more of the
>>>comments that you don't like. LOL . That makes you not as bright as
>>>you like to think you are :^))
>>
>>I will not let anti-gay abuse go unchallenged - if they were calling a
>>black person 'nigger', should that go unchallenged?
>
>I do not approve of the abuse you've been subjected to. Your response
>to the questions on urine were appropriate and on-topic, and do not
>warrant the abusive responses you've received.

Thanks - I appreciate that.
>
>But perhaps one difference between us is that I don't expect to change
>anyone else's behaviour. I try to only highlight bullshit which
>relates to alcoholism. So you can be your own worst enemy. To a
>black person I'd suggest they "rise above" the name-calling.
>Alcoholics CAN be like children, simply because alcohol inhibits the
>mental maturing process. Let's face it, many of us are blitheringly
>insane by the time we quit drinking, and after years of alcohol abuse
>it can take time to even get back to where we were when starting
>drinking.
>
>So what this demonstrates to me is how amazing organisations such as
>AA can continue to exist and even be good places to go, considering
>the very nature of the people they comprise.
>
>In your case you can either continue trying to change others, or you
>can accept that there are those who will be feeling fear of your
>sexuality. Your retaliation will only add fuel to the fear, it
>doesn't change anything.
>
I understand where you're coming from. The rationale for challenging
this behaviour is not so much that I am mortally offended - I've had far
worse including physical abuse in the past, it is that abuse - whether
it be anti-gay, racist, sexist or whatever should not go unchallenged:
there may be gay lurkers here who would see such abuse go unchallenged
and be discouraged. If someone abuses me in the street I will respond
for the same reason - this behaviour is unacceptable and to let it go
makes it more acceptable.

I have little expectation of changing the ingrained prejudice of some,
indeed I have no issues with them holding such views. But I do believe
it is unacceptable to express them in this forum and will say so.
However your use of the word retaliation made me think, and I have been
doing that. I will attempt to challenge without retaliating in future -
thanks for that too.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Robert McGregor]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea3c1ab5f91254fc257b8688c984633e@news.teranew s.com...
>
> In your case you can either continue trying to change others, or you
> can accept that there are those who will be feeling fear of your
> sexuality.

Seems you are projecting too, Blue

Bob.

[Moonraker]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea3c1ab5f91254fc257b8688c984633e@news.teranew s.com...
>
> In your case you can either continue trying to change others, or you
> can accept that there are those who will be feeling fear of your
> sexuality. Your retaliation will only add fuel to the fear, it
> doesn't change anything.

Fear of a queer? I don't think so.

What would be to fear? Getting hit with a purse?

[Blue Moon]

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 07:06:27 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>
>"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:ea3c1ab5f91254fc257b8688c984633e@news.teranew s.com...
>>
>> In your case you can either continue trying to change others, or you
>> can accept that there are those who will be feeling fear of your
>> sexuality.
>
>Seems you are projecting too, Blue

Nope.

--
Blue Moon

[Robert McGregor]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c2f8304f2e2a3ef1148558e060c13dc2@news.teranew s.com...
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 07:06:27 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
> <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:ea3c1ab5f91254fc257b8688c984633e@news.teranew s.com...
> >>
> >> In your case you can either continue trying to change others, or you
> >> can accept that there are those who will be feeling fear of your
> >> sexuality.
> >
> >Seems you are projecting too, Blue
>
> Nope.
>

If you reflect on the grounds for your own resentment expressed here, you
may well reconsider that "nope".

Bob

[Blue Moon]

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 07:49:33 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>
>"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:c2f8304f2e2a3ef1148558e060c13dc2@news.teranew s.com...
>> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 07:06:27 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
>> <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:ea3c1ab5f91254fc257b8688c984633e@news.teranew s.com...
>> >>
>> >> In your case you can either continue trying to change others, or you
>> >> can accept that there are those who will be feeling fear of your
>> >> sexuality.
>> >
>> >Seems you are projecting too, Blue
>>
>> Nope.
>
>If you reflect on the grounds for your own resentment expressed here, you
>may well reconsider that "nope".

If you reflect on what has been said, you may realise there is neither
projection nor resentment.

--
Blue Moon

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <Zm9wb.32045$ow5.27886@bignews2.bellsouth.net>, Moonraker
<fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> writes
>
>"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:ea3c1ab5f91254fc257b8688c984633e@news.teranew s.com...
>>
>> In your case you can either continue trying to change others, or you
>> can accept that there are those who will be feeling fear of your
>> sexuality. Your retaliation will only add fuel to the fear, it
>> doesn't change anything.
>
>Fear of a queer? I don't think so.
>
>What would be to fear? Getting hit with a purse?
>
>
The last person to try and queer bash me ended up first in hospital then
in jail. If your stereotype is mincing queen - try a gay leather bar -
you would soon find that dispelled.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[The Other Harry]

[On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 22:39:56 +0000, Jonathan Bratt
<jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:]

> The last person to try and queer bash me ended up first in hospital then
> in jail. If your stereotype is mincing queen - try a gay leather bar -
> you would soon find that dispelled.

I don't see that whether or not you are gay has anything to do
with quitting drinking. Maybe it does, but to me it looks like
just some more bullshit that people can use to throw rocks with.

[Moonraker]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8oQ87da8cTw$Ewxr@aol.com...
> >
> >
> The last person to try and queer bash me ended up first in hospital then
> in jail.

> Jonathan Bratt

I bet that 11 year old put up a hell of a battle.

[rosie read and post]

> I don't see that whether or not you are gay has anything to do
> with quitting drinking. Maybe it does, but to me it looks like
> just some more bullshit that people can use to throw rocks with.

and you would be 100% correct harry!

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <rjh2sv08qjqm06gtp731ec4vqd1ohm83vo@4ax.com>, The Other Harry
<hc.me@ix.netcom.com> writes
>[On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 22:39:56 +0000, Jonathan Bratt
><jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:]
>
>> The last person to try and queer bash me ended up first in hospital then
>> in jail. If your stereotype is mincing queen - try a gay leather bar -
>> you would soon find that dispelled.
>
>I don't see that whether or not you are gay has anything to do
>with quitting drinking. Maybe it does, but to me it looks like
>just some more bullshit that people can use to throw rocks with.

The thought had crossed my mind.
--
Jonathan Bratt