"Rock Bottom"

[George &The Dragon]

There's been a lot of talk on other threads about people who will stop
drinking when they hit "rock bottom". I'm not sure "rock bottom" exists.

Alcoholism to me seems more like descending into an abyss. There is no
bottom. People who survive are the ones who simply decide to stop going
down. Those who don't survive disappear into the abyss. The "bottom" is
defined by when you start going up.

"Rock bottom" is a common phrase among alcoholics that implies that at some
point you will receive a "sign" (your foot touching the ocean bed) that
unmistakeably tells you that you are as low as you can possibly go. And I
don't think that happens. You can always go lower. You can even disappear.

My philosophical 2c for the day
_ and sober too!

George




& the Dragon

[Gregg Fowler]

We all have the same bottom. Six feet in a whole is our bottom. One can
never be sure they have reached their bottom till they are aware of nothing.
Just my take on the matter. If we are able to quit drinking before this and
enjoy life, then this is a bonus.

Gregg

"George &The Dragon" <george@dragon.ca> wrote in message
news:rFxub.9688$iT4.1052141@news20.bellglobal.com. ..
> There's been a lot of talk on other threads about people who will stop
> drinking when they hit "rock bottom". I'm not sure "rock bottom" exists.
>
> Alcoholism to me seems more like descending into an abyss. There is no
> bottom. People who survive are the ones who simply decide to stop going
> down. Those who don't survive disappear into the abyss. The "bottom" is
> defined by when you start going up.
>
> "Rock bottom" is a common phrase among alcoholics that implies that at
some
> point you will receive a "sign" (your foot touching the ocean bed) that
> unmistakeably tells you that you are as low as you can possibly go. And I
> don't think that happens. You can always go lower. You can even disappear.
>
> My philosophical 2c for the day
> _ and sober too!
>
> George
>
>
>
>
> & the Dragon
>
>

[Tom Whatley]

"George &The Dragon" <george@dragon.ca> wrote in message
news:rFxub.9688$iT4.1052141@news20.bellglobal.com. ..
> There's been a lot of talk on other threads about people who will stop
> drinking when they hit "rock bottom". I'm not sure "rock bottom" exists.
>
> Alcoholism to me seems more like descending into an abyss. There is no
> bottom. People who survive are the ones who simply decide to stop going
> down. Those who don't survive disappear into the abyss. The "bottom" is
> defined by when you start going up.
>
> "Rock bottom" is a common phrase among alcoholics that implies that at
some
> point you will receive a "sign" (your foot touching the ocean bed) that
> unmistakeably tells you that you are as low as you can possibly go. And I
> don't think that happens. You can always go lower. You can even disappear.
>

When I really think about it, there was only one bottom that really meant
anything to me. Nothing physical, more spiritual in nature. It was when
drinking stopped working. I had heard that in meetings long ago and never
understood what people were saying. I thought the booze actually quit
getting someone drunk. But one night I sat there, cash in my pocket, half a
cookie on the table, cooler full of beer, and as lit as I had ever been. But
try as I might, I couldn't get there, I couldn't reach oblivion. In the last
few years that's all I really wanted; get loaded enough to reach oblivion
and forget it all. When that stopped happening I was crushed. My one true
friend, the one who was always there, had deserted me. I was fucked! On the
other hand, I was still sucking air.

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:49:22 GMT, "Tom Whatley"
<LASTNAME@houston.rr.com> wrote:]

> But one night I sat there, cash in my pocket, half a
> cookie on the table, cooler full of beer, and as lit as I had ever been. But
> try as I might, I couldn't get there, I couldn't reach oblivion. In the last
> few years that's all I really wanted; get loaded enough to reach oblivion
> and forget it all. When that stopped happening I was crushed. My one true
> friend, the one who was always there, had deserted me. I was fucked! On the
> other hand, I was still sucking air

Okay. We're talking the same cookie.

[Gail]

Good post, George.
Gail

"George &The Dragon" <george@dragon.ca> wrote in message
news:rFxub.9688$iT4.1052141@news20.bellglobal.com. ..
> There's been a lot of talk on other threads about people who will stop
> drinking when they hit "rock bottom". I'm not sure "rock bottom" exists.
>
> Alcoholism to me seems more like descending into an abyss. There is no
> bottom. People who survive are the ones who simply decide to stop going
> down. Those who don't survive disappear into the abyss. The "bottom" is
> defined by when you start going up.
>
> "Rock bottom" is a common phrase among alcoholics that implies that at
some
> point you will receive a "sign" (your foot touching the ocean bed) that
> unmistakeably tells you that you are as low as you can possibly go. And I
> don't think that happens. You can always go lower. You can even disappear.
>
> My philosophical 2c for the day
> _ and sober too!
>
> George
>
>
>
>
> & the Dragon
>
>

[Shawster]

"George &The Dragon" <george@dragon.ca> wrote in message
news:rFxub.9688$iT4.1052141@news20.bellglobal.com. ..
> There's been a lot of talk on other threads about people who will stop
> drinking when they hit "rock bottom". I'm not sure "rock bottom" exists.
>
> Alcoholism to me seems more like descending into an abyss. There is no
> bottom. People who survive are the ones who simply decide to stop going
> down. Those who don't survive disappear into the abyss. The "bottom" is
> defined by when you start going up.
>
> "Rock bottom" is a common phrase among alcoholics that implies that at
some
> point you will receive a "sign" (your foot touching the ocean bed) that
> unmistakeably tells you that you are as low as you can possibly go. And I
> don't think that happens. You can always go lower. You can even disappear.

Rock bottom for me sounds like a wile E coyote cartoon. as wile fall off
the cliff, hits a ledge, then the ledge falls, he hits the ground, then the
anvil falls on him, then the ledge.

or the simpsons when bart was a daredevil, and homer jumps the clifff hits
the wall on the other side and bounces all the way down. as he is
helicoptered out he hits his head a hundred times, and then the ambulance
hits a tree and his gurney falls out the back, starting the falling process
once more. the parable of the 32 DOHs!

It can always get worse.

it took me four trips to jail to figure that out.




>
> My philosophical 2c for the day
> _ and sober too!
>
> George
>
>
>
>
> & the Dragon
>
>
>

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:30:07 GMT, "Shawster"
<shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:]

> It can always get worse.

And it seems to.

> it took me four trips to jail to figure that out.

I don't want one of those.

But I will reiterate. I do not think sending addicts to jail is
a good idea. Getting them (us) into rehab programs seems much
more beneficial. To everyone.

I hope you don't feel too bad for having had a few trips to the
slammed. Many people who are essentially very nice find their
way there. One way or the other. Drinking is one, but there are
others.

[Shawster]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:ep2nrvkbh19tasea068nivba47nguvdupm@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:30:07 GMT, "Shawster"
> <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:]
>
> > It can always get worse.
>
> And it seems to.
>
> > it took me four trips to jail to figure that out.
>
> I don't want one of those.
>
> But I will reiterate. I do not think sending addicts to jail is
> a good idea. Getting them (us) into rehab programs seems much
> more beneficial. To everyone.

and I will reiterate, IRDGAS what you think. you have no idea how to put
any sobriety together yet you pretend to have opinions on anything and
everything.

jail is a consequence. if there are no consequences there will be no
recovery.
>
> I hope you don't feel too bad for having had a few trips to the
> slammed. Many people who are essentially very nice find their
> way there. One way or the other. Drinking is one, but there are
> others

I hate to burst your bubble, but jail is full of criminals.

why don't you go hop in a trunk and drive to a rehab.

or throw someone into a trunk and go to jail.

>

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <rFxub.9688$iT4.1052141@news20.bellglobal.com>, George &The
Dragon <george@dragon.ca> writes
>There's been a lot of talk on other threads about people who will stop
>drinking when they hit "rock bottom". I'm not sure "rock bottom" exists.
>
>Alcoholism to me seems more like descending into an abyss. There is no
>bottom. People who survive are the ones who simply decide to stop going
>down. Those who don't survive disappear into the abyss. The "bottom" is
>defined by when you start going up.
>
>"Rock bottom" is a common phrase among alcoholics that implies that at some
>point you will receive a "sign" (your foot touching the ocean bed) that
>unmistakeably tells you that you are as low as you can possibly go. And I
>don't think that happens. You can always go lower. You can even disappear.

I looked upon it more as doing something *so* bad that it finally
convinces one to stop/get help.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[George &The Dragon]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:zfKub.4722$86.129086@twister.tampabay.rr.com. ..

> Rock bottom for me sounds like a wile E coyote cartoon. . . .

Right on. It's just one calamity after another, isn't it? The strange thing
is that when you're drinking you don't think that your drinking has anything
to do with the calamities. The lost driving licence, the bruises and
fractures from falls, the problems at work and at home . . they all just
seem to be bad luck.

It sure feels great when that anvil stops falling on your head!

Sorry about not making any contributions to my own thread. I've just come
back from a three day conference. My brain hurts, but not my head!

George


& the Dragon

[Mias]

Dear George & the Dragon - "Rock Bottom", to me, is that point on the
downward spiral where a person acknowledges that he/she does not have the
answer to whatever is pulling them down. I have literally asked God for help
and remember saying 'I want to get up and go to my Father". After I stopped
I made a habit of questioning newcomers in a roundabout way if they had a
similar experience. In most cases they could remember praying or shouting or
swearing at God. IMHO God can only provide help when one gives Him a chance
and stop trying yourself. Perhaps God is in another human being/s for others
and that will work, per definition.
Kind regards
Mias
"George &The Dragon" <george@dragon.ca> wrote in message
news:rFxub.9688$iT4.1052141@news20.bellglobal.com. ..
> There's been a lot of talk on other threads about people who will stop
> drinking when they hit "rock bottom". I'm not sure "rock bottom" exists.
>
> Alcoholism to me seems more like descending into an abyss. There is no
> bottom. People who survive are the ones who simply decide to stop going
> down. Those who don't survive disappear into the abyss. The "bottom" is
> defined by when you start going up.
>
> "Rock bottom" is a common phrase among alcoholics that implies that at
some
> point you will receive a "sign" (your foot touching the ocean bed) that
> unmistakeably tells you that you are as low as you can possibly go. And I
> don't think that happens. You can always go lower. You can even disappear.
>
> My philosophical 2c for the day
> _ and sober too!
>
> George
>
>
>
>
> & the Dragon
>
>

[rosie read and post]

rock bottom to me, was when i finally surrendered, and admitted
that MY WAY to sobriety NEVER worked.

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

to avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing.
........................elbert hubbard



"Mias" <emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
news:bpod3p$rdu$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> Dear George & the Dragon - "Rock Bottom", to me, is that point on
the
> downward spiral where a person acknowledges that he/she does not
have the
> answer to whatever is pulling them down. I have literally asked
God for help
> and remember saying 'I want to get up and go to my Father". After
I stopped
> I made a habit of questioning newcomers in a roundabout way if
they had a
> similar experience. In most cases they could remember praying or
shouting or
> swearing at God. IMHO God can only provide help when one gives Him
a chance
> and stop trying yourself. Perhaps God is in another human being/s
for others
> and that will work, per definition.
> Kind regards
> Mias
> "George &The Dragon" <george@dragon.ca> wrote in message
> news:rFxub.9688$iT4.1052141@news20.bellglobal.com. ..
> > There's been a lot of talk on other threads about people who
will stop
> > drinking when they hit "rock bottom". I'm not sure "rock bottom"
exists.
> >
> > Alcoholism to me seems more like descending into an abyss. There
is no
> > bottom. People who survive are the ones who simply decide to
stop going
> > down. Those who don't survive disappear into the abyss. The
"bottom" is
> > defined by when you start going up.
> >
> > "Rock bottom" is a common phrase among alcoholics that implies
that at
> some
> > point you will receive a "sign" (your foot touching the ocean
bed) that
> > unmistakeably tells you that you are as low as you can possibly
go. And I
> > don't think that happens. You can always go lower. You can even
disappear.
> >
> > My philosophical 2c for the day
> > _ and sober too!
> >
> > George
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > & the Dragon
> >
> >
>
>

[Dreamspinner3]

This really struck a cord with me as I watch my alcoholic husband slowly
killing himself with booze. I am beginning to believe that, at least for
him, "rock bottom" doesn't exist either. It is just awful to see someone
you love slowly kill themselves, watch as their body stops functioning
normally, watch as they slowly go nuts. Yes, I have sought the help of
Al-Anon.

"George &The Dragon" <george@dragon.ca> wrote in message
news:rFxub.9688$iT4.1052141@news20.bellglobal.com. ..

> There's been a lot of talk on other threads about people who will stop
> drinking when they hit "rock bottom". I'm not sure "rock bottom" exists.

[The Other Harry]

[On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:28:02 -0600, "Dreamspinner3"
<dreamspinner3@hotpop.com> wrote:]

> watch as their body stops functioning
> normally, watch as they slowly go nuts.

That is very true.

It is unlikely that you can help him. He can, but that is only
if he decides to. He may not.

Nosing around for a good detox program or a good shrink would
not be bad. Check the insurance coverage. It is usually not
nearly enough. (I know a bit more about this, btw. I just
don't want to get into that here. There are things you can do.)

We do kill ourselves. All you can do is to find ways where he
might not do that. But if he does, don't blame yourself. We do
it to ourselves.

[rosie read and post]

"Dreamspinner3" <dreamspinner3@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:bq0ksm$1r4okk$1@ID-75132.news.uni-berlin.de...
> This really struck a cord with me as I watch my alcoholic husband
slowly
> killing himself with booze. I am beginning to believe that, at
least for
> him, "rock bottom" doesn't exist either. It is just awful to see
someone
> you love slowly kill themselves, watch as their body stops
functioning
> normally, watch as they slowly go nuts. Yes, I have sought the
help of
> Al-Anon.


(((((((((((((((((((dreamspinner))))))))))))))))))) ))))

[Popov]

You can always reach oblivion. Get rid of the beer and cookies, and
get some Popov and Diet Coke.

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:49:22 GMT, "Tom Whatley"
<LASTNAME@houston.rr.com> wrote:

>When I really think about it, there was only one bottom that really meant
>anything to me. Nothing physical, more spiritual in nature. It was when
>drinking stopped working. I had heard that in meetings long ago and never
>understood what people were saying. I thought the booze actually quit
>getting someone drunk. But one night I sat there, cash in my pocket, half a
>cookie on the table, cooler full of beer, and as lit as I had ever been. But
>try as I might, I couldn't get there, I couldn't reach oblivion. In the last
>few years that's all I really wanted; get loaded enough to reach oblivion
>and forget it all. When that stopped happening I was crushed. My one true
>friend, the one who was always there, had deserted me. I was fucked! On the
>other hand, I was still sucking air.
>

[Bobby L.]

"George &The Dragon" <george@dragon.ca> wrote in message
news:rFxub.9688$iT4.1052141@news20.bellglobal.com. ..
> There's been a lot of talk on other threads about people who will stop
> drinking when they hit "rock bottom". I'm not sure "rock bottom" exists.
>
> Alcoholism to me seems more like descending into an abyss. There is no
> bottom. People who survive are the ones who simply decide to stop going
> down. Those who don't survive disappear into the abyss. The "bottom" is
> defined by when you start going up.
>
> "Rock bottom" is a common phrase among alcoholics that implies that at
some
> point you will receive a "sign" (your foot touching the ocean bed) that
> unmistakeably tells you that you are as low as you can possibly go. And I
> don't think that happens. You can always go lower. You can even disappear.
>
> My philosophical 2c for the day
> _ and sober too!
>
> George
>
>
>
>
> & the Dragon
>
>

Yep, and agreed. We all have our bottoms -- that point beyond which we are
no longer willing to go. This bottom is different for everyone. The only
bad thing about this is when people start comparing bottoms and determining
that someone has reach his/her bottom if it's not the same as someone
else's. That's a lot of alcoholic thinking again -- just focusing on the
differences will keep me different -- unique. Fact is, I am no more unique
that a thousand other alcoholics. When I start, I seem to be unable to
stop. Once I figured that out, although I didn't see this until much later,
I had reached my bottom. What did I lose? ... a whole lotta stuff ... What
did I still have? ... a whole lotta stuff. Doesn't matter... It was still
the bottom for me.

[Tom]

You've obviously never had a fifth ward cookie.

"Popov" <dont@try.this.at.home> wrote in message
news:bkk1uvcqo85ega841rsi9mf9a9ok9q0lq2@4ax.com...
> You can always reach oblivion. Get rid of the beer and cookies, and
> get some Popov and Diet Coke.
>
> On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:49:22 GMT, "Tom Whatley"
> <LASTNAME@houston.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >When I really think about it, there was only one bottom that really meant
> >anything to me. Nothing physical, more spiritual in nature. It was when
> >drinking stopped working. I had heard that in meetings long ago and never
> >understood what people were saying. I thought the booze actually quit
> >getting someone drunk. But one night I sat there, cash in my pocket, half
a
> >cookie on the table, cooler full of beer, and as lit as I had ever been.
But
> >try as I might, I couldn't get there, I couldn't reach oblivion. In the
last
> >few years that's all I really wanted; get loaded enough to reach oblivion
> >and forget it all. When that stopped happening I was crushed. My one true
> >friend, the one who was always there, had deserted me. I was fucked! On
the
> >other hand, I was still sucking air.
> >
>