More thoughts about getting cut off

[The Other Harry]

In some ways, I think it was right for the nice woman not
to sell to me last night. I'm sure I was already drunk,
and they aren't supposed to sell alcohol to people who are
drunk. That's quite reasonable.

But if you look at the outcome, it was *very* bad. I
drove 20 miles to get to another store -- ten one way, and
then another ten back. I was going to get another bottle,
no matter what it took. If I'd had to drive 100 miles, I
would have.

It is totally pathetic, but I think it's very typical of
what most addicts do. All her cutting me off accomplished
was to endanger lives. It would have been better if she
had sold to me.

There is no question that I need to quit drinking. But it
isn't going to be the state that gets me to do that. All
they will do is piss me off and make me more determined to
continue drinking. The exact opposite outcome that they
are seeking.

There are better ways. I think so.

[J. Rockford]

In article <2iojrvkimghil9ogvhkavcucmb84j7gacv@4ax.com>, The Other
Harry <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> In some ways, I think it was right for the nice woman not
> to sell to me last night. I'm sure I was already drunk,
> and they aren't supposed to sell alcohol to people who are
> drunk. That's quite reasonable.
>
> But if you look at the outcome, it was *very* bad. I
> drove 20 miles to get to another store -- ten one way, and
> then another ten back. I was going to get another bottle,
> no matter what it took. If I'd had to drive 100 miles, I
> would have.
>
> It is totally pathetic, but I think it's very typical of
> what most addicts do. All her cutting me off accomplished
> was to endanger lives. It would have been better if she
> had sold to me.
>
> There is no question that I need to quit drinking. But it
> isn't going to be the state that gets me to do that. All
> they will do is piss me off and make me more determined to
> continue drinking. The exact opposite outcome that they
> are seeking.
>
> There are better ways. I think so.

Rising to the bottom is a bitch! Ain't it? Hmmmmmmm.

[amyotte]

>
> It is totally pathetic, but I think it's very typical of
> what most addicts do. All her cutting me off accomplished
> was to endanger lives. It would have been better if she
> had sold to me.
>

My wife is a waitress at our local Holiday Inn and part of her
training included determining when to NOT sell booze.

The implication to her is if the person that she were to sell the
drinks to gets into an accident and booze was a factor she, not
Holiday Inn, could get charged. We thankfully have not had that
happen.

The clerk in your story was following procedures and maybe looking out
for herself.

Brian

[Mias]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:2iojrvkimghil9ogvhkavcucmb84j7gacv@4ax.com...
> All > they will do is piss me off and make me more determined to
> continue drinking.

Harry
Do consider that they are standing aside. Allowing you to wrap yourself
around a pole. Not to feel guilty should some blood spatter on their fancy
clothes. Like all they do not want to be involved. This accident waiting for
a place to happen was me. Spite them blue. You decide what you want to do.
Spite them blue I say. Decide to stop. Decide to stop one day at a time.
Decide to stop one day at a time because you do.
Kind regards
Mias
14 years clean and sober and enjoying every second of watching the bastards
turning blue!
P.S. I drank because I wanted to drink. I don't drink now because I found a
way not to drink. So I never really had a choice. So, I drank because I had
no choice. QED

[The Other Harry]

[On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:55:57 +0200, "Mias"
<emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote:]

> So I never really had a choice. So, I drank because I had
> no choice. QED

I'll keep that one.

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:35:33 -0500, The Other Harry
<hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>There is no question that I need to quit drinking. But it
>isn't going to be the state that gets me to do that. All
>they will do is piss me off and make me more determined to
>continue drinking. The exact opposite outcome that they
>are seeking.

Sure they can. They can throw your life-threatening ass in jail where
it belongs. Then you'll quit. Whether you recover or simply drink as
soon as you get back out is another matter.

In future, why not make sure you have enough drink to get blotto
*before* you start drinking it? Assuming you're alcoholic, the State,
the ex- or the local store is irrelevant to whether or not you drink,
and thus whether or not you endanger life. Blaming the State for the
outcome is just an attempt to divert responsibility from where it
really belongs. You're not responsible for alcoholism, but you are
responsible for what you choose to do about it.

How do I know this? Because I've been where you are. Talking doesn't
work, thinking doesn't work, trying to cut down doesn't work, going to
a therapist doesn't work. Recovery from alcoholism is all about
action. Without taking the actions necessary to recover you will
drink, and the ultimate self-centredness of drinking means you're
likely to drive drunk, and whether or not someone else gets killed as
a result is not within your ability to judge.

>There are better ways. I think so.

Yep. Quit the talking, quit the drinking, and start the doing. That
choice is entirely your responsibility, not anyone else's.

--
Blue Moon

[Moonraker]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:101824c7009999d7fce1dc87e1afafd2@news.teranew s.com...
> On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:35:33 -0500, The Other Harry
> <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >There is no question that I need to quit drinking. But it
> >isn't going to be the state that gets me to do that. All
> >they will do is piss me off and make me more determined to
> >continue drinking. The exact opposite outcome that they
> >are seeking.
>
> Sure they can. They can throw your life-threatening ass in jail where
> it belongs. Then you'll quit. Whether you recover or simply drink as
> soon as you get back out is another matter.
>
> In future, why not make sure you have enough drink to get blotto
> *before* you start drinking it? Assuming you're alcoholic, the State,
> the ex- or the local store is irrelevant to whether or not you drink,
> and thus whether or not you endanger life. Blaming the State for the
> outcome is just an attempt to divert responsibility from where it
> really belongs. You're not responsible for alcoholism, but you are
> responsible for what you choose to do about it.
>
> How do I know this? Because I've been where you are. Talking doesn't
> work, thinking doesn't work, trying to cut down doesn't work, going to
> a therapist doesn't work. Recovery from alcoholism is all about
> action. Without taking the actions necessary to recover you will
> drink, and the ultimate self-centredness of drinking means you're
> likely to drive drunk, and whether or not someone else gets killed as
> a result is not within your ability to judge.
>
> >There are better ways. I think so.
>
> Yep. Quit the talking, quit the drinking, and start the doing. That
> choice is entirely your responsibility, not anyone else's.
>
> --
> Blue Moon

Thank you. That's about the best example of "tell it like it is" that I've
seen. Well said. Very well said.

[Mikey]

>
> Yep. Quit the talking, quit the drinking, and start the doing. That
> choice is entirely your responsibility, not anyone else's.
>
> --
> Blue Moon

Blue Moon-

I agree with that statement entirely! It is the drinkers' choice to stop
drinking.

The problem though, is that many drinkers end up at AA, who's first step
says that they are powerless over alcohol. So, how can they make the choice
to quit, when they are powerless to do so? If they are powerless over
alcohol, there is no choice, since "alcohol" is more powerful than a poor
drinker's will power, or his/her decision to stop drinking! Quite a vicious
cycle, eh?

Hopefully, Harry will realize that he really is not powerless over alcohol,
and the ultimate decision to quit drinking is his, and his alone.

I think The Other Harry is a fairly intelligent guy, and knows all this. He
has just not yet decided to "just not drink".

--Mikey--

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 03:03:52 GMT, Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com>
wrote:]

> Sure they can. They can throw your life-threatening ass in jail where
> it belongs. Then you'll quit.

My ass may well belong in jail, but I don't think that will make
me quit drinking. I know many active alcoholics/addicts who have
spent a lot of time in jails.

There is one person who can make me quit drinking. Him and God.

> How do I know this? Because I've been where you are. Talking doesn't
> work, thinking doesn't work, trying to cut down doesn't work, going to
> a therapist doesn't work. Recovery from alcoholism is all about
> action.

I understand this.

As I have said before, I *have* to think about things. Talking
helps me to think. This is the internet, so you can talk here.
You can say anything here.

But it isn't like I haven't been doing. Trying to do, anyway. I
have fucked up many times, but I have spent about half of the
last six months as sober as a judge.

(There is joke there about a judge who I used to be acquainted
with who was far from sober. He could barely stand up. If
anyone ever belonged in jail, it was he. He was it.)

Speaking of which, I am trying to work out the visiting rules at
the California Dept of Correctional Facilities. Someone I used
to work with now lives at RJD in San Diego, and I'd like to stop
by and visit him next time I go there. Bring him a book and some
cookies.

Talk about a nightmare. You can't take in more than $30. My
lady friend can't wear an uw bra. There are many rules.

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:13:41 GMT, "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net>
wrote:]

> The problem though, is that many drinkers end up at AA, who's first step
> says that they are powerless over alcohol. So, how can they make the choice
> to quit, when they are powerless to do so? If they are powerless over
> alcohol, there is no choice, since "alcohol" is more powerful than a poor
> drinker's will power, or his/her decision to stop drinking!

This is what my shrink -- Nancy -- says. She does not go with
"powerless". She wants to see people to take control of their
lives.

I think I agree with her. I have a week to decide. Maybe a bit
longer -- assuming I don't get arrested in the interim.

[Mias]

Harry - My name is Mias and I am an alcoholic
Noticed your posts evoked quite a bit of enthusiasm. Think it is because you
act and think like so many here used to when still drinking. Being of booze
now they *KNOW* that you can do it to. It is bad to watch a person heading
for extinction and you *KNOW* he/she can do it. Why know? Because I did it
and if I can, hell man, then anybody can...
Kind regards
Mias
14 years clean and sober and enjoying every second of it!

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:vpqlrvsotkhev11diufd56vgllret9n47r@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 03:03:52 GMT, Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com>
> wrote:]
>
> > Sure they can. They can throw your life-threatening ass in jail where
> > it belongs. Then you'll quit.
>
> My ass may well belong in jail, but I don't think that will make
> me quit drinking. I know many active alcoholics/addicts who have
> spent a lot of time in jails.
>
> There is one person who can make me quit drinking. Him and God.
>
> > How do I know this? Because I've been where you are. Talking doesn't
> > work, thinking doesn't work, trying to cut down doesn't work, going to
> > a therapist doesn't work. Recovery from alcoholism is all about
> > action.
>
> I understand this.
>
> As I have said before, I *have* to think about things. Talking
> helps me to think. This is the internet, so you can talk here.
> You can say anything here.
>
> But it isn't like I haven't been doing. Trying to do, anyway. I
> have fucked up many times, but I have spent about half of the
> last six months as sober as a judge.
>
> (There is joke there about a judge who I used to be acquainted
> with who was far from sober. He could barely stand up. If
> anyone ever belonged in jail, it was he. He was it.)
>
> Speaking of which, I am trying to work out the visiting rules at
> the California Dept of Correctional Facilities. Someone I used
> to work with now lives at RJD in San Diego, and I'd like to stop
> by and visit him next time I go there. Bring him a book and some
> cookies.
>
> Talk about a nightmare. You can't take in more than $30. My
> lady friend can't wear an uw bra. There are many rules.
>

[Shawster]

if you and mikey are so powerful, go ahead and have *one* beer.

just a little beer can't hurt such powerful people right?

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:fftlrv07gd0m72ts0knlec2ke4n8es6nmm@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:13:41 GMT, "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net>
> wrote:]
>
> > The problem though, is that many drinkers end up at AA, who's first step
> > says that they are powerless over alcohol. So, how can they make the
choice
> > to quit, when they are powerless to do so? If they are powerless over
> > alcohol, there is no choice, since "alcohol" is more powerful than a
poor
> > drinker's will power, or his/her decision to stop drinking!
>
> This is what my shrink -- Nancy -- says. She does not go with
> "powerless". She wants to see people to take control of their
> lives.
>
> I think I agree with her. I have a week to decide. Maybe a bit
> longer -- assuming I don't get arrested in the interim.
>

[Robert McGregor]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:fftlrv07gd0m72ts0knlec2ke4n8es6nmm@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:13:41 GMT, "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net>
> wrote:]
>
> > The problem though, is that many drinkers end up at AA, who's first step
> > says that they are powerless over alcohol. So, how can they make the
choice
> > to quit, when they are powerless to do so? If they are powerless over
> > alcohol, there is no choice, since "alcohol" is more powerful than a
poor
> > drinker's will power, or his/her decision to stop drinking!
>
> This is what my shrink -- Nancy -- says. She does not go with
> "powerless". She wants to see people to take control of their
> lives.
>
> I think I agree with her. I have a week to decide. Maybe a bit
> longer -- assuming I don't get arrested in the interim.

AA's first step does not say that at all. Of all people, a shrink could at
least be expected to comprehend what "Tense" means. At least this
demonstrates that in respect to AA's first step, Harry's shrink is as
clueless as Mikey.

Bob

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:49:59 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:]

> AA's first step does not say that at all. Of all people, a shrink could at
> least be expected to comprehend what "Tense" means. At least this
> demonstrates that in respect to AA's first step, Harry's shrink is as
> clueless as Mikey.

She isn't clueless.

[Robert McGregor]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:6e2mrv0qg0l2jam79fqfl5hoh1ca4l6c0m@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:49:59 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
> <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:]
>
> > AA's first step does not say that at all. Of all people, a shrink could
at
> > least be expected to comprehend what "Tense" means. At least this
> > demonstrates that in respect to AA's first step, Harry's shrink is as
> > clueless as Mikey.
>
> She isn't clueless.

Meanwhile, Harry stumbles, from the specific, to the absolute, in one
mindless stagger.

Bob

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:24:18 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:]

> Meanwhile, Harry stumbles, from the specific, to the absolute, in one
> mindless stagger.

Robert, you are definitely a shithead. But I don't think you are
nearly as bad as you seem to be. It's an act. At least that's
my opinion.

Why don't you screw that head of yours on a little tighter and
start making posts that could be helpful to other people?

Being a prick gets a bit old after a while. You can still do
that sometimes, but do you really want to do it all the time?

You obviously have a brain.

[Robert McGregor]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:suamrvokfhhh81n4hq7snbf9n0q7m6sdd6@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:24:18 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
> <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:]
>
> > Meanwhile, Harry stumbles, from the specific, to the absolute, in one
> > mindless stagger.
>
> Robert, you are definitely a shithead. But I don't think you are
> nearly as bad as you seem to be. It's an act. At least that's
> my opinion.
>
> Why don't you screw that head of yours on a little tighter and
> start making posts that could be helpful to other people?
>
> Being a prick gets a bit old after a while. You can still do
> that sometimes, but do you really want to do it all the time?
>
> You obviously have a brain.
>

Harry, with his fantasy of a deep and sound perception,
deludes himself his problem is unique.
He gives advice, gratuitous, blind to his self deception
while he's lost,
without a paddle,
up shit creek.

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bo42jv$16t60a$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:db3aqv01ujk83l1qmmjih0sohs4hccdtam@4ax.com...
> > [On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:32:14 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
> > <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:]
>
> You may be mature enough to recognise the one thing in common between
rosie
> and her detractors is endorsement, however genuine, of the solution
> suggested by AA, the 12 steps. What's stopping you from an immediate start
> taking them? http://silkworth.net/bb/thereisasolution.html
>
> Bob
>

[Shawster]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:suamrvokfhhh81n4hq7snbf9n0q7m6sdd6@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:24:18 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
> <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:]
>
> > Meanwhile, Harry stumbles, from the specific, to the absolute, in one
> > mindless stagger.
>
> Robert, you are definitely a shithead. But I don't think you are
> nearly as bad as you seem to be. It's an act. At least that's
> my opinion.

LOL, as if your opinion held water. literally.

[Xanadu]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:35:33 -0500, The Other Harry wrote:

> But if you look at the outcome, it was *very* bad. I drove 20 miles to
> get to another store -- ten one way, and then another ten back. I was
> going to get another bottle, no matter what it took. If I'd had to
> drive 100 miles, I would have.

How was that "very bad"? How would she know that you didn't already drive
the 100 miles having been flagged from 10 other state stores?

It's part of the dilution. The whole world doesn't know everything about
you, nor do most people really care. Do you know everything about
everyone you pass by on a daily basis? Nope. How would she know your
personal info? Maybe she knows your face if you're a regular there (just
as I know most everyone's schedules that work at the local state store and
would work my buying routines around those schedules so the same person
wasn't selling me the same vodka bottle a couple days in a row), but that
doesn't mean I know anything about them. One guy I've talked with some,
but that's about it; hell I don't even know his name (granted I haven't
been in there in a little while now, but...).

Why would she call around to all the state stores in the area? "Watch out
for this drunk guy wearing [insert description]." She'd be more likely to
just jot down your plate number and call the cops. It was her discretion
to not sell to you (which was a good move, I'm not saying different), but
for you to think that there's a camera or something following you
everywhere Truman Show style, is just delusional.

Just my 2 cents. Don't take it as a flame, it's not meant as one.

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:59:27 -0500, Xanadu <xanadu@inorbit.com>
wrote:]

> Just my 2 cents. Don't take it as a flame, it's not meant as one.

I understand.

I should not have been on the road. I also should not have been
drinking. I have a "problem". It's a bit worse than a problem,
but we'll call it that.

You really do not want me on the road when I have been drinking.
It would have been better for her to give me a free bottle of
booze and send me home in a taxi. Get me into a rehab program.

But that night, I was going to get a bottle of booze. There is
nothing that could have stopped me. Nothing. I would have done
anything.

It is very pathetic. I digust myself.

I'm just glad I didn't kill anyone. I don't want to do that.

[MYOB]

Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:101824c7009999d7fce1dc87e1afafd2@news.teranew s.com:

> On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:35:33 -0500, The Other Harry
> <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>There is no question that I need to quit drinking. But it
>>isn't going to be the state that gets me to do that. All
>>they will do is piss me off and make me more determined to
>>continue drinking. The exact opposite outcome that they
>>are seeking.
>
> Sure they can. They can throw your life-threatening ass in jail where
> it belongs. Then you'll quit. Whether you recover or simply drink as
> soon as you get back out is another matter.
>
> In future, why not make sure you have enough drink to get blotto
> *before* you start drinking it? Assuming you're alcoholic, the State,
> the ex- or the local store is irrelevant to whether or not you drink,
> and thus whether or not you endanger life. Blaming the State for the
> outcome is just an attempt to divert responsibility from where it
> really belongs. You're not responsible for alcoholism, but you are
> responsible for what you choose to do about it.
>
> How do I know this? Because I've been where you are. Talking doesn't
> work, thinking doesn't work, trying to cut down doesn't work, going to
> a therapist doesn't work. Recovery from alcoholism is all about
> action. Without taking the actions necessary to recover you will
> drink, and the ultimate self-centredness of drinking means you're
> likely to drive drunk, and whether or not someone else gets killed as
> a result is not within your ability to judge.
>
>>There are better ways. I think so.
>
> Yep. Quit the talking, quit the drinking, and start the doing. That
> choice is entirely your responsibility, not anyone else's.
>

AMEN!!!!!

[MYOB]

"Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in
news:V5Cub.12670$y27.4905581@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et:

>>
>> Yep. Quit the talking, quit the drinking, and start the doing. That
>> choice is entirely your responsibility, not anyone else's.
>>
>> --
>> Blue Moon
>
> Blue Moon-
>
> I agree with that statement entirely! It is the drinkers' choice to
> stop drinking.
>
> The problem though, is that many drinkers end up at AA, who's first
> step says that they are powerless over alcohol. So, how can they make
> the choice to quit, when they are powerless to do so? If they are
> powerless over alcohol, there is no choice, since "alcohol" is more
> powerful than a poor drinker's will power, or his/her decision to stop
> drinking! Quite a vicious cycle, eh?
>
> Hopefully, Harry will realize that he really is not powerless over
> alcohol, and the ultimate decision to quit drinking is his, and his
> alone.
>
> I think The Other Harry is a fairly intelligent guy, and knows all
> this. He has just not yet decided to "just not drink".
>
> --Mikey--
>
>
>
>

I can only speak for myself, but I'm only powerless over alcohol when I
ingest it. As long as it's sitting in a bottle, it is no more than poison
to me.

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:52:47 -0500, The Other Harry
<hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:13:41 GMT, "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net>
>wrote:]
>
>> The problem though, is that many drinkers end up at AA, who's first step
>> says that they are powerless over alcohol. So, how can they make the choice
>> to quit, when they are powerless to do so? If they are powerless over
>> alcohol, there is no choice, since "alcohol" is more powerful than a poor
>> drinker's will power, or his/her decision to stop drinking!
>
>This is what my shrink -- Nancy -- says. She does not go with
>"powerless". She wants to see people to take control of their
>lives.

The only comparison I can think of right now between your shrink and
Mikey is that neither has a clue about the first Step they're
commenting on.

Instead of basing your judgement on ignorant opinion, why not ask
someone with a clue?

--
Blue Moon

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:57:01 GMT, Blue Moon
<mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote:]

> Instead of basing your judgement on ignorant opinion, why not ask
> someone with a clue?

And just who is that?

I don't mean to be irreverant. I do listen to everything people
say to me. Everything. People here, the shrink, AA, etc. But
it is ultimately me who has to deal with this.

The shrink -- Nancy -- does have a clue. She has been doing
this for a few years. About 40. She has been around. You have
no basis for saying that she doesn't. I have at least talked
with her a couple times. You have not.

Her advice may not be right for you, but I think she may be
right for me.

I'm starting again. I will start as many times as it takes.

I just think that my "problem" is not really with the drinking.
I make that out to only be a symptom. A sedation. My problem
is elsewhere.

You may well be different.

[Shawster]

> I just think, that's my "problem"

[Evey]

As long as I was using alcohol I was powerless to see the truth. The TRUTH
has set me FREE. Free from the power and control that alcohol had over me.
Whenever I drank I was out of contol. Today I am powerless to control
people, places or things but not how I react. I had no choice but to stop
drinking when I really got honest with myself and accepted responsibility
for the mess I had made of my life. There was no one left to blame. Alcohol
just lied to me. It told me " I don't care!" Grace continues into my 7th
year of sobriety and I see more and more truths about me. I am no longer CUT
OFF from life. I'm living it.
Keep Coming Back

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:fftlrv07gd0m72ts0knlec2ke4n8es6nmm@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:13:41 GMT, "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net>
> wrote:]
>
> > The problem though, is that many drinkers end up at AA, who's first step
> > says that they are powerless over alcohol. So, how can they make the
choice
> > to quit, when they are powerless to do so? If they are powerless over
> > alcohol, there is no choice, since "alcohol" is more powerful than a
poor
> > drinker's will power, or his/her decision to stop drinking!
>
> This is what my shrink -- Nancy -- says. She does not go with
> "powerless". She wants to see people to take control of their
> lives.
>
> I think I agree with her. I have a week to decide. Maybe a bit
> longer -- assuming I don't get arrested in the interim.