Is there any chance of recovery after "Ascites"

[Pike]

A friend of mine has had a swollen abdomen for the last 6 months, she still
drinks but much less (of course) She is dealing with liver specialists and
psychiatrists but being debilitated and full of regret, simply cannot stop
drinking at least in a maintenance mode. I am her last friend and used to
drink with her and ex-husband 10 years ago. I'm the godfather of her 9
year-old daughter, and will inherit her -which I will gladly do, but I'm
wondering if there is any hope of avoiding this great loss. All my research
on the web indicates that a liver transplant is the only solution, but it
seems like such a long shot- she resists all confrontation - I can't even
suggest that she play for time, like 5 years sober versus 1 year drinking. I
don't write this easily, I participate in lots of newsgroups but have sought
this one out this evening for the first time, I'm driven to drink by this
situation and I'm desperate for any advice. Peter.

[Shawster]

"Pike" <peich@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:gNYrb.2181$xI2.135522@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> A friend of mine has had a swollen abdomen for the last 6 months, she
still
> drinks but much less (of course) She is dealing with liver specialists and
> psychiatrists but being debilitated and full of regret, simply cannot stop
> drinking at least in a maintenance mode. I am her last friend and used to
> drink with her and ex-husband 10 years ago. I'm the godfather of her 9
> year-old daughter, and will inherit her -which I will gladly do, but I'm
> wondering if there is any hope of avoiding this great loss. All my
research
> on the web indicates that a liver transplant is the only solution, but it
> seems like such a long shot- she resists all confrontation - I can't even
> suggest that she play for time, like 5 years sober versus 1 year drinking.
I
> don't write this easily, I participate in lots of newsgroups but have
sought
> this one out this evening for the first time, I'm driven to drink by this
> situation and I'm desperate for any advice. Peter.-


part of the insanity of the drink is that as bad as your friend has it, you
are getting thirsty.

can she stop drinking for one day?
>
>
>

[Moonraker]

"Pike" <peich@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:gNYrb.2181$xI2.135522@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> A friend of mine has had a swollen abdomen for the last 6 months, she
still
> drinks but much less (of course) She is dealing with liver specialists and
> psychiatrists but being debilitated and full of regret, simply cannot stop
> drinking at least in a maintenance mode. I am her last friend and used to
> drink with her and ex-husband 10 years ago. I'm the godfather of her 9
> year-old daughter, and will inherit her -which I will gladly do, but I'm
> wondering if there is any hope of avoiding this great loss. All my
research
> on the web indicates that a liver transplant is the only solution, but it
> seems like such a long shot- she resists all confrontation - I can't even
> suggest that she play for time, like 5 years sober versus 1 year drinking.
I
> don't write this easily, I participate in lots of newsgroups but have
sought
> this one out this evening for the first time, I'm driven to drink by this
> situation and I'm desperate for any advice. Peter.
>
>

Wow.

I certainly don't envy you your situation. One thing I noted in your post
was that you feel "driven to drink". While I fully understand that feeling,
you know you won't be any good to your friend or her daughter if you are
blitzed. It undoubtedly will be easier for you to do whatever you have to
do if you aren't impaired. Despite how much you want to take your emotional
pain and stress away.

My first reaction was that you might seek out a local al-anon group.
(That's the group that supports the family and friends of drunks, as
distinct from AA itself,) There you might find some face to face local
support, some first hand experience from others who have dealt with the same
set of problems, and possibly advice that pertains to your particlular
province's laws if intervention is indicated.

Thanks for sharing with us. I'll hold out a good thought for you. Please
keep us posted on what is going on and let your friend know that she doesn't
have to live like that unless she wants to. There is a solution.

Good luck...and give the little girl a hug. I betcha she needs one.

[rosie read and post]

((((((((((((((peter)))))))))))))\
you sound like you are trying to be a good friend..................
have you tried going to an alanon meeting in your area?
there you will learn new ways to approach your friend that just might
work.

*****In liver disease, ascites indicates a chronic or subacute disorder
and does not occur in acute conditions (eg, uncomplicated viral
hepatitis, drug reactions, biliary obstruction). The most common cause
is cirrhosis, especially from alcoholism.*****

there is a chance for the liver to regenerate
itself..........................(if alcohol is the cause and she stops
drinking.)
hang in there!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

it ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.
............................b.clinton

[Bpyboy]

Hi peter, I'm with shaw. It took only a VERY short time (about a day or two)
after stopping drinking that I could start to see what an insane lifestyle I
had been leading.

Maybe she will respond better, dried out at least for a couple days, to
coherent, logical requests?

you are recovering too? Help from folks like that helped me a lot, as they
didn't let me get away with all this "you don't understand" bullshit--YES, they
DID understand, and so I never could view them as hypocrites.

tough situation, hang in there man.
John

[The Other Harry]

[On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:35:01 -0500, "Pike"
<peich@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:]

> A friend of mine has had a swollen abdomen for the last 6 months, she still
> drinks but much less (of course) She is dealing with liver specialists and
> psychiatrists but being debilitated and full of regret, simply cannot stop
> drinking at least in a maintenance mode. I am her last friend and used to
> drink with her and ex-husband 10 years ago. I'm the godfather of her 9
> year-old daughter, and will inherit her -which I will gladly do, but I'm
> wondering if there is any hope of avoiding this great loss. All my research
> on the web indicates that a liver transplant is the only solution, but it
> seems like such a long shot- she resists all confrontation - I can't even
> suggest that she play for time, like 5 years sober versus 1 year drinking. I
> don't write this easily, I participate in lots of newsgroups but have sought
> this one out this evening for the first time, I'm driven to drink by this
> situation and I'm desperate for any advice.

You may not take this advice, but I am trying to take it myself.

Get her to a good university-connected hospital. Now. Make a few
calls first, then load her up in the car and take her there.

I don't care what she says about this, she goes. Your bedside
demeanor will be important, but the main thing is that she goes.
Load and go. That's what they call it in the ambulance business.
Get her there. It will not be easy, but that *is* the thing to do.

I'm not kidding. Do it right now. Immediately. Otherwise she will
die.

[Bobby L.]

Yep, You can be her friend or be her buddy -- but today you cannot be both.

Bobby L


"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:oun4rv4he6m5nir13fjhmosjj6t179e4tv@4ax.com...
> [On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:35:01 -0500, "Pike"
> <peich@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:]
>
> > A friend of mine has had a swollen abdomen for the last 6 months, she
still
> > drinks but much less (of course) She is dealing with liver specialists
and
> > psychiatrists but being debilitated and full of regret, simply cannot
stop
> > drinking at least in a maintenance mode. I am her last friend and used
to
> > drink with her and ex-husband 10 years ago. I'm the godfather of her 9
> > year-old daughter, and will inherit her -which I will gladly do, but I'm
> > wondering if there is any hope of avoiding this great loss. All my
research
> > on the web indicates that a liver transplant is the only solution, but
it
> > seems like such a long shot- she resists all confrontation - I can't
even
> > suggest that she play for time, like 5 years sober versus 1 year
drinking. I
> > don't write this easily, I participate in lots of newsgroups but have
sought
> > this one out this evening for the first time, I'm driven to drink by
this
> > situation and I'm desperate for any advice.
>
> You may not take this advice, but I am trying to take it myself.
>
> Get her to a good university-connected hospital. Now. Make a few
> calls first, then load her up in the car and take her there.
>
> I don't care what she says about this, she goes. Your bedside
> demeanor will be important, but the main thing is that she goes.
> Load and go. That's what they call it in the ambulance business.
> Get her there. It will not be easy, but that *is* the thing to do.
>
> I'm not kidding. Do it right now. Immediately. Otherwise she will
> die.

[Pike]

Thanks for your sincere replies, this is a fine group, I will weigh the
options and I know I must act, possbly print out these posts and give them
to her, and go to an AA meeting myself first. Thanks again, Peter.
"Bobby L." <BobbyL2000nospam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:skzsb.21841$jA6.4715@bignews6.bellsouth.net.. .
> Yep, You can be her friend or be her buddy -- but today you cannot be
both.
>
> Bobby L
>
>
> "The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:oun4rv4he6m5nir13fjhmosjj6t179e4tv@4ax.com...
> > [On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:35:01 -0500, "Pike"
> > <peich@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:]
> >
> > > A friend of mine has had a swollen abdomen for the last 6 months, she
> still
> > > drinks but much less (of course) She is dealing with liver specialists
> and
> > > psychiatrists but being debilitated and full of regret, simply cannot
> stop
> > > drinking at least in a maintenance mode. I am her last friend and used
> to
> > > drink with her and ex-husband 10 years ago. I'm the godfather of her 9
> > > year-old daughter, and will inherit her -which I will gladly do, but
I'm
> > > wondering if there is any hope of avoiding this great loss. All my
> research
> > > on the web indicates that a liver transplant is the only solution, but
> it
> > > seems like such a long shot- she resists all confrontation - I can't
> even
> > > suggest that she play for time, like 5 years sober versus 1 year
> drinking. I
> > > don't write this easily, I participate in lots of newsgroups but have
> sought
> > > this one out this evening for the first time, I'm driven to drink by
> this
> > > situation and I'm desperate for any advice.
> >
> > You may not take this advice, but I am trying to take it myself.
> >
> > Get her to a good university-connected hospital. Now. Make a few
> > calls first, then load her up in the car and take her there.
> >
> > I don't care what she says about this, she goes. Your bedside
> > demeanor will be important, but the main thing is that she goes.
> > Load and go. That's what they call it in the ambulance business.
> > Get her there. It will not be easy, but that *is* the thing to do.
> >
> > I'm not kidding. Do it right now. Immediately. Otherwise she will
> > die.
>
>

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:17:05 -0500, "Pike"
<peich@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:]

> Thanks for your sincere replies, this is a fine group, I will weigh the
> options and I know I must act, possbly print out these posts and give them
> to her, and go to an AA meeting myself first.

I have been debating whether your original message was a troll. I
hope it was. I can be very gullible, so perhaps that is the case.

If that is the case, then you are an asshole. It isn't funny.
There are people who are in situations like this who do need help.
Trolling it only deters serious replies -- which those people need.

If you are not trolling, doing things like printing out the
responses and giving them to her, going to an AA meeting, etc. is
absolute bullshit. You need to get her to a hospital.

One way or the other, you need to understand that these are not the
sort of things that you should fuck should around with. You have to
take them seriously.

Maybe you'll figure that out after your friend dies. Or someone
else. Kick back and have a beer.

[Shawster]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:oun4rv4he6m5nir13fjhmosjj6t179e4tv@4ax.com...
> [On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:35:01 -0500, "Pike"
> <peich@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:]
>
> > A friend of mine has had a swollen abdomen for the last 6 months, she
still
> > drinks but much less (of course) She is dealing with liver specialists
and
> > psychiatrists but being debilitated and full of regret, simply cannot
stop
> > drinking at least in a maintenance mode. I am her last friend and used
to
> > drink with her and ex-husband 10 years ago. I'm the godfather of her 9
> > year-old daughter, and will inherit her -which I will gladly do, but I'm
> > wondering if there is any hope of avoiding this great loss. All my
research
> > on the web indicates that a liver transplant is the only solution, but
it
> > seems like such a long shot- she resists all confrontation - I can't
even
> > suggest that she play for time, like 5 years sober versus 1 year
drinking. I
> > don't write this easily, I participate in lots of newsgroups but have
sought
> > this one out this evening for the first time, I'm driven to drink by
this
> > situation and I'm desperate for any advice.
>
> You may not take this advice, but I am trying to take it myself.
>
> Get her to a good university-connected hospital. Now. Make a few
> calls first, then load her up in the car and take her there.
>
> I don't care what she says about this, she goes. Your bedside
> demeanor will be important, but the main thing is that she goes.
> Load and go. That's what they call it in the ambulance business.
> Get her there. It will not be easy, but that *is* the thing to do.
>
> I'm not kidding. Do it right now. Immediately. Otherwise she will
> die.

damn harry, good call.


>

[The Other Harry]

[On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:35:09 GMT, "Shawster"
<shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:]

> damn harry, good call.

I've been to this ballgame. On both sides of it.

I'm still not sure if the OP is messing around here. I think he may
be mainly talking about himself. That may have been a personal call
for help. I don't know. But either way, you have to jump on it.

I have tried taking EMT training. It freaked me out, but I will try
doing it again.

You typically have one hour. They call it the "golden hour", which
is not quite the same as a golden shower.

You know what you do during that hour?

You do anything you have to do. Anything at all. You stuff the
bitch in the trunk if you have to. You just get her there.

I live about 30 miles from University of Virginia Medical Center,
just over the Blue Ridge Mountains. We can get you on the landing
pad there in no time. Blow thru a car window, you get a free ride
on the helicopter to UVA. We'll tape your ass to the board and put
you in the back of the helo and have you there in no time. Thirty
minutes. Set it down on the freeway.

Very, very fast. We are good. Paramedic in the back, all things
hooked up and working. Take your BP as we go.

You know what that's like? It's impossible. Never mind the rest.

We call our helicopter Pegasus. It is not good news when you hear
Peggie whapping overhead. But it is nice to have her.

What's-his-name needs get his priorities worked out. I don't think
he's there yet. I think he's talking about himself.

[The Other Harry]

[On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:17:05 -0500, "Pike"
<peich@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:]

> Thanks for your sincere replies, this is a fine group, I will weigh the
> options and I know I must act, possbly print out these posts and give them
> to her, and go to an AA meeting myself first. Thanks again.

My guess is that this your issue. You are a drunk, and you're not
quite ready to admit it.

If so, then welcome to the club.

[Robert McGregor]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:mm26rv4m0ecjs1c8fb3pbl6rak78fg7umu@4ax.com...
snips>
> I have tried taking EMT training. It freaked me out,

the other harry continued

>We are good.

Grow up kid.

Bob

[Shawster]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:2v56rvkol8todbu2ub1dhd2dj6n4q5pdse@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:17:05 -0500, "Pike"
> <peich@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:]
>
> > Thanks for your sincere replies, this is a fine group, I will weigh the
> > options and I know I must act, possbly print out these posts and give
them
> > to her, and go to an AA meeting myself first. Thanks again.
>
> My guess is that this your issue. You are a drunk, and you're not
> quite ready to admit it.
>
> If so, then welcome to the club.

while you are a member of this club, do try to remember a couple of things:

Attraction rather than promotion.

Do they want what you have?

I would suggest that you not post as an authority, until you have gotten
your first 90 day chip, and not to tell people that they are drunks. Tell
them your story,and see if they can relate.

>
>

[Shawster]

.. I think he's talking about himself.

yes as well you should.

how long since your last drink?

>
>

[The Other Harry]

[On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:55:33 GMT, "Shawster"
<shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:]

>> I think he's talking about himself.
>
> yes as well you should.
>
> how long since your last drink?

Maybe 30 seconds. Hang on, I can shorten that.


The thing is, the OP started out asking about friend who supposedly
has a liver problem. Then he follows up with a message which
mentions that maybe he will go to an AA meeting.

I probably tend to read between lines too much, but that just struck
me as odd. It is not clear to me what is going on there.

But what the heck? It is not clear to me what is going on with
myself. In about an hour I am going to go see a shrink for the
first time. We'll see how that goes. I think I'll take my dog to
the appointment. See if he tries to bite her.

If it doesn't go well, I have an appointment in December to go over
to UVa and see another one.

I have a program that I have been working out for myself. No, it is
not implemented. I have made a number of unsuccessful starts. I
think part of my problem is that quitting drinking -- for me -- is
not simply quitting drinking. It will involve doing a whole lot of
things, none of which are proving to be easy.

AA is one. Finding a shrink is one. Med's are probably one.
Getting a job is one. Religion is one. There are more.

My failures play on my mind every minute of every day. (That's when
I'm conscious.) As someone -- maybe you or Robert -- said, perhaps
I am looking for an "easier, softer way". But I don't see it like
that. I think the only way I can get it right is to travel a fairly
complicated, difficult path.

It is fair to criticize me for giving advice to others when I am not
successful myself. I am barely into step #1.

But this is how I do things. I make some stabs at them, back off,
take another look, and then try again. Maybe that is too
analytical. It probably is.

Please bear in mind, however, that I started trying to quit drinking
after an alcohol deprivation seizure in late May. That's after
drinking for something like 35 years. This is not going to be like
sweeping the porch. A little analysis is going to be necessary.
And a lot of work. A package.

That is me. Other people may do it differently.

I'll get it done, but it is not like learning how to use an ATM
machine.

[rosie read and post]

> But this is how I do things. I make some stabs at them, back off,
> take another look, and then try again. Maybe that is too
> analytical. It probably is.
>


harry,
your not that usual......................MOST folks i know, didn't quit
drinking and jump right into recovery, without trying almost EVERYTHING
else first!
rosie

[The Other Harry]

[On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:43:49 GMT, "rosie read and post"
<readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote:]

> harry,
> your not that usual......................MOST folks i know, didn't quit
> drinking and jump right into recovery, without trying almost EVERYTHING
> else first!
> rosie

Well, the appointment with Shrink #1 went better than expected.

I am satisfied that I will need a shrink. I am a great believer in
AA, but I also need a situation that is more interactive. Talking
here helps, talking to friends helps, but a shrink will also be part
of my equation.

It's a funny thing. Much of what she did was to ask me questions
and then read back to me what I was telling her about myself. But I
guess that is what therapy is often like. She's worth the $100.

One thing that has me bugged is that she is looking for some event
in my past which triggered my drinking / depression problems. It's
fair enough to ask, but I don't think there is one.

[Bpyboy]

Harry, really man, what's the deal? why so fixated on who said what or who's
talking about whom here?

A lot of folks post here because " a freind" wanted to know something. I did
for nearly a year before seriously trying to straighten my shit out and drying
out. then "my freind" was me. but under the premise of asking advice about
this fictional person, I learned a lot of things, and came to start accepting
my problem. In ABSOLUTE annonimity! I mean, I'm just some dude out here in
Zombie land, i'll most ceratinly never meet any of you folks in person!

The point is SOMEONE needs some advice. And the attitude of "go RIGHT NOW OR
YOU'LL DIE" is EXACTLY the reason my progress got delayed.

I went to a doctor to ask a honest, serious question, and got the old "you'll
be dead by the weekend" treatment. It freaked me out so badly, i didn't seek
medical help again for about 6 months!

so of you points are good, your delivery is absolutley terrible, and VERY
counter productive.

Not to diminish this person's problem (whoever it might be) It IS serious, it
DOES require medical attention, and soon.

I don't know, to each his own. I WILL tell you, had someone tried to shove me
in the trunk of a car, somebody would have gotten killed--one or perhaps both
of us would be going to the hospital for certain.

[The Other Harry]

Here's a joke:

One of the things Shrink #1 told me is that there is a very good
three month rehab program over in Richmond.

Guess what it costs.

Take a wild guess, double it, then read down...



















$40,000

[The Other Harry]

[On 13 Nov 2003 20:18:00 GMT, bpyboy@aol.com (Bpyboy) wrote:]

> A lot of folks post here because " a freind" wanted to know something. I did
> for nearly a year before seriously trying to straighten my shit out and drying
> out. then "my friend" was me.

We have some things in common. I do a lot of over-lap and
over-analyzing.

But it is serious. You do what you have to do in order to save
someone's life. If that involves stuffing them in the trunk, then
that is where they go.

I will take another run at that EMT class.

But you know what that is like? It is the very definition of what
hell would be like. It is an occupation for the insane.

So, maybe I might be qualified.

You can't just go do it though. You need to be psychologically
equipped. Maybe I am.

It would be lovely to get shot in the gut while someone's blood is
spruting all over the ceiling.

I'm not sure that it would help me quit drinking, but you don't
exactly go on a call when you are drunk. That would not be good.

You need to do these things right. I don't mean a little bit right.

There may be something in here. I'll need to take another look.

[Shawster]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3mp7rv8uqknkm8f6894f690nrgsfd5fqke@4ax.com...
> Here's a joke:
>

whelp, not drinking is free, and an AA meeting is a buck.

[The Other Harry]

[On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:43:47 GMT, "Shawster"
<shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:]

> whelp, not drinking is free, and an AA meeting is a buck.

So, we go.

The problem is not going while drunk.

[Shawster]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1bk8rvc98hflet6f7k77udn9ddi958pl6v@4ax.com...
> [On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:43:47 GMT, "Shawster"
> <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:]
>
> > whelp, not drinking is free, and an AA meeting is a buck.
>
> So, we go.
>
> The problem is not going while drunk.

why.

you think too much. go to bed.


>

[Pike]

Gee Harry, Thanks for the sensitive and well-considered reply. Can you
really imagine someone making up the situation I described just for the
hell of it? I can't, but I guess that stranger things have happened in
usenet. I don't see how jumping to conclusions and calling someone you don't
know an asshole can help, in spite of your good intentions., and why would
you hope it was a troll? I don't know if your Rambo tactics have ever helped
anyone around you, but I know they wouldn't work here, you have to remember
that she is proud and resistant and under medical supervision (but cheating)
I organised a confrontation group 4 years ago, and she bolted after
realising what was up. I will present some of these letters to her and I
will visit AA in order to get advice on how to steer her there.

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:rcs5rvssq5pm00hje18f49nsl7mqeo5ug6@4ax.com...
> [On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:17:05 -0500, "Pike"
> <peich@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:]
>
> > Thanks for your sincere replies, this is a fine group, I will weigh the
> > options and I know I must act, possbly print out these posts and give
them
> > to her, and go to an AA meeting myself first.
>
> I have been debating whether your original message was a troll. I
> hope it was. I can be very gullible, so perhaps that is the case.
>
> If that is the case, then you are an asshole. It isn't funny.
> There are people who are in situations like this who do need help.
> Trolling it only deters serious replies -- which those people need.
>
> If you are not trolling, doing things like printing out the
> responses and giving them to her, going to an AA meeting, etc. is
> absolute bullshit. You need to get her to a hospital.
>
> One way or the other, you need to understand that these are not the
> sort of things that you should fuck should around with. You have to
> take them seriously.
>
> Maybe you'll figure that out after your friend dies. Or someone
> else. Kick back and have a beer.
>

[Robert McGregor]

"Pike" <peich@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:eCdtb.16654$IK2.1339823@news20.bellglobal.com ...
>I
> will visit AA in order to get advice on how to steer her there.

First, you may want to check out Al-Anon, their online dept is @
http://www.ola-is.org/

All too often I have seen some bemused soul seeking advice about a friend
arrive at AA, only to be gratuitously diagnosed as alcoholic by AA
volunteers, and metaphorically held down and force fed before they have a
clue what has hit them.

Bob

[The Other Harry]

[On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:32:37 -0500, "Pike"
<peich@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:]

> Gee Harry, Thanks for the sensitive and well-considered reply. Can you
> really imagine someone making up the situation I described just for the
> hell of it?

Let's go back and look at your original message:

> A friend of mine has had a swollen abdomen for the last 6 months, she still
> drinks but much less (of course) She is dealing with liver specialists and
> psychiatrists but being debilitated and full of regret, simply cannot stop
> drinking at least in a maintenance mode. I am her last friend and used to
> drink with her and ex-husband 10 years ago. I'm the godfather of her 9
> year-old daughter, and will inherit her -which I will gladly do, but I'm
> wondering if there is any hope of avoiding this great loss. All my research
> on the web indicates that a liver transplant is the only solution, but it
> seems like such a long shot- she resists all confrontation - I can't even
> suggest that she play for time, like 5 years sober versus 1 year drinking. I
> don't write this easily, I participate in lots of newsgroups but have sought
> this one out this evening for the first time, I'm driven to drink by this
> situation and I'm desperate for any advice.

You are her last friend?

Get her to a hospital. Then go to an AA meeting. Stuff her in
the trunk and go.

[The Other Harry]

And don't be telling anyone on this newsgroup that your
friend's problems are driving you to drink.

[Moonraker]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:6bsarvkhlrsirkq5bubbn8mnqh2buq3li3@4ax.com...
> [On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:32:37 -0500, "Pike"
> <peich@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:]
>
> > Gee Harry, Thanks for the sensitive and well-considered reply. Can you
> > really imagine someone making up the situation I described just for the
> > hell of it?
>
> Let's go back and look at your original message:
>
> > A friend of mine has had a swollen abdomen for the last 6 months, she
still
> > drinks but much less (of course) She is dealing with liver specialists
and
> > psychiatrists but being debilitated and full of regret, simply cannot
stop
> > drinking at least in a maintenance mode. I am her last friend and used
to
> > drink with her and ex-husband 10 years ago. I'm the godfather of her 9
> > year-old daughter, and will inherit her -which I will gladly do, but I'm
> > wondering if there is any hope of avoiding this great loss. All my
research
> > on the web indicates that a liver transplant is the only solution, but
it
> > seems like such a long shot- she resists all confrontation - I can't
even
> > suggest that she play for time, like 5 years sober versus 1 year
drinking. I
> > don't write this easily, I participate in lots of newsgroups but have
sought
> > this one out this evening for the first time, I'm driven to drink by
this
> > situation and I'm desperate for any advice.
>
> You are her last friend?
>
> Get her to a hospital. Then go to an AA meeting. Stuff her in
> the trunk and go.
>

Harry? You probably ought to get at least a couple of hours of continuous
sobriety under yer belt before you begin to hand out advice. OK?

[Shawster]

Stuff her in
> > the trunk and go.
> >
>
> Harry? You probably ought to get at least a couple of hours of continuous
> sobriety under yer belt before you begin to hand out advice. OK?

well, he has his own steps, and rosie to keep him sober.


>
>
>

[The Other Harry]

Your message has the distinction of being the one that is
keeping me awake tonight. Something always does, so don't let
that go to your head.


It just doesn't add up. You said a whole number of things
there. If they are all true -- in your opinion -- they do not
make sense.

- Someone with a serious liver problem needs to be in a
hospital. This is not an option, and it is not something that
can happen a week from next Thursday.

- You said she is consulting with liver specialists and
psychiatrists. The plural on both is noted -- and not believed
by me.

- You said you are her only remaining friend.

- You said you are desperate for help.

- You said some other things.


I am not sure what we have here.

There are physicians who are incompetent. Okay. It's like
anything else. If that is the case, you *have* to do
something. We can mess around a little with our drinking
issues, but we can't mess around with a physical emergency.
There is a difference. I can have a drink tomorrow, but if my
next door neighbor's child gets hit by a car that is different.

You got that?

The one line I believe in your original message is that you are
desperate for help. Come ahead. People here do bite, but it
isn't quite like having an adder snake in your bed. You can
turn off the screen, tell me to shove it, and so forth.

But if your friend actually is in the situation you said she is
in, something is wrong. You need to engage gears. Stop
thinking and do.

Same advice I'm giving myself on my drinking, but you may have
a real emergency.

[JB]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:l7mbrv4me326vni2phs20jpkbejcb36nvh@4ax.com...

> But if your friend actually is in the situation you said she is
> in, something is wrong. You need to engage gears. Stop
> thinking and do.
>
> Same advice I'm giving myself on my drinking, but you may have
> a real emergency.

Harry, you may be giving yourself the same advice, ie "Stop thinking and doing", but are you
taking it ? FWIW, I don't think so. You are still thinking far too much about what you might
need to do in order to stop drinking (see my response in the thread "Achieving Sobriety").

LOL. I know you've seen a shrink. Once. You may take AD's. Fine. Are you still pouring booze
down your throat. Probably. Given what you've told us about yourself, how sensible is that ?

FWIW, I think that at this time, you should be concentrating on your own recovery and stop either
worrying about or criticising what anyone else is doing.

Yours

JB

[Robert McGregor]

"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bp578f$aqo$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:l7mbrv4me326vni2phs20jpkbejcb36nvh@4ax.com...
>
> > But if your friend actually is in the situation you said she is
> > in, something is wrong. You need to engage gears. Stop
> > thinking and do.
> >
> > Same advice I'm giving myself on my drinking, but you may have
> > a real emergency.
>
> Harry, you may be giving yourself the same advice, ie "Stop thinking and
doing", but are you
> taking it ? FWIW, I don't think so. You are still thinking far too
much about what you might
> need to do in order to stop drinking (see my response in the thread
"Achieving Sobriety").
>
> LOL. I know you've seen a shrink. Once. You may take AD's. Fine. Are
you still pouring booze
> down your throat. Probably. Given what you've told us about yourself,
how sensible is that ?
>
> FWIW, I think that at this time, you should be concentrating on your own
recovery and stop either
> worrying about or criticising what anyone else is doing.
>

"you may be giving yourself the same advice, ie "concentrating on your own
recovery ", but are you
taking it ?

Bob

[Shawster]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bp57hf$1jtq4r$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bp578f$aqo$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > "The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > news:l7mbrv4me326vni2phs20jpkbejcb36nvh@4ax.com...
> >
> > > But if your friend actually is in the situation you said she is
> > > in, something is wrong. You need to engage gears. Stop
> > > thinking and do.
> > >
> > > Same advice I'm giving myself on my drinking, but you may have
> > > a real emergency.
> >
> > Harry, you may be giving yourself the same advice, ie "Stop thinking
and
> doing", but are you
> > taking it ? FWIW, I don't think so. You are still thinking far too
> much about what you might
> > need to do in order to stop drinking (see my response in the thread
> "Achieving Sobriety").
> >
> > LOL. I know you've seen a shrink. Once. You may take AD's. Fine. Are
> you still pouring booze
> > down your throat. Probably. Given what you've told us about yourself,
> how sensible is that ?
> >
> > FWIW, I think that at this time, you should be concentrating on your own
> recovery and stop either
> > worrying about or criticising what anyone else is doing.
> >
>
> "you may be giving yourself the same advice, ie "concentrating on your own
> recovery ", but are you
> taking it ?

I'm sure you know the exact quote, but nothing beats working with another
drunk.

[Robert McGregor]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1Hptb.114466$jW5.1448173@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
>
> I'm sure you know the exact quote, but nothing beats working with another
> drunk.
>
My experience is that many times "working" with another drunk was a complete
waste of time that could have been far better spent hastening my own
recovery. Anyway, wot's stopping you?

Bob

[JB]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bp57hf$1jtq4r$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bp578f$aqo$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > "The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > news:l7mbrv4me326vni2phs20jpkbejcb36nvh@4ax.com...
<snip


> "you may be giving yourself the same advice, ie "concentrating on your own
> recovery ", but are you
> taking it ?
>
> Bob

Hi Bob

LOL. It's been a long time since anyone here paid attention to what I was doing to help myself. In
the light of how I've been feeling recently about what I know I've not been doing, I see your post
as a timely reminder to refocus. I was going to say that I saw it as "divine intervention" until I
thought that such a remark might be taken personally :^))

FWIW, these past few days, I have started to feel guilty about not making enough effort these past
two weeks to get to an AA meeting; not responding to my Sponsor's comments about my
partially-completed inventory, not completing the rest of my inventory and not getting on with
non-recovery work that should have been completed weeks ago.

I'm ashamed to admit this NG has become yet something else to which I have become seriously addicted
.. There have been times when I've been able to "convince" myself that all that I do here is
helping my recovery. Only when I am being honest with myself do I know that this is not true.

FWIW, I know that if I don't overcome my obession with this NG, I will be the only loser. Is there
a recovery group ? :^))

Best regards

JB

[Shawster]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bp59mf$1k2dt1$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:1Hptb.114466$jW5.1448173@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
> >
> > I'm sure you know the exact quote, but nothing beats working with
another
> > drunk.
> >
> My experience is that many times "working" with another drunk was a
complete
> waste of time that could have been far better spent hastening my own
> recovery. Anyway, wot's stopping you?

well that would be your ewxperience.

wot's stopping me from wot?


>
> Bob
>
>
>

[Shawster]

>
>
> > "you may be giving yourself the same advice, ie "concentrating on your
own
> > recovery ", but are you
> > taking it ?
> >
> > Bob
>
> Hi Bob
>
> LOL. It's been a long time since anyone here paid attention to what I was
doing to help myself. In
> the light of how I've been feeling recently about what I know I've not
been doing, I see your post
> as a timely reminder to refocus. I was going to say that I saw it as
"divine intervention" until I
> thought that such a remark might be taken personally :^))
>
> FWIW, these past few days, I have started to feel guilty about not making
enough effort these past
> two weeks to get to an AA meeting; not responding to my Sponsor's comments
about my
> partially-completed inventory, not completing the rest of my inventory and
not getting on with
> non-recovery work that should have been completed weeks ago.

God may move mountains, but you have to bring a shovel.

Have you not gone to a meeting in two weeks? get off your duff, no excuses.
go, now.

[JB]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Pnqtb.114854$jW5.1456099@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
>
>
> >
> >
> > > "you may be giving yourself the same advice, ie "concentrating on your
> own
> > > recovery ", but are you
> > > taking it ?
> > >
> > > Bob
> >
> > Hi Bob
<snip>

> > FWIW, these past few days, I have started to feel guilty about not making
> enough effort these past
> > two weeks to get to an AA meeting; not responding to my Sponsor's comments
> about my
> > partially-completed inventory, not completing the rest of my inventory and
> not getting on with
> > non-recovery work that should have been completed weeks ago.
>
> God may move mountains, but you have to bring a shovel.
>
> Have you not gone to a meeting in two weeks? get off your duff, no excuses.
> go, now.

LOL. As my husband is currently hanging from chains attached to a ceiling hoist over a toilet pan
and needs me to clean him up after he's finished doing what he's doing, leaving home to go to a
meeting right now would not be a good idea :^)) But I get the message. Thanks Shaw.

FWIW, each day, I am greatly benefiting from listening every day to my Joe and Charlie tapes and
reading the BB. I've been following Joe and Charlie's advise to read the books' chapters in order
and, like them, I've come to see that the book makes more sense when read like that :^))

Best regards

JB
>
>
>

[Shawster]

"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bp5cu5$u99$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:Pnqtb.114854$jW5.1456099@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > "you may be giving yourself the same advice, ie "concentrating on
your
> > own
> > > > recovery ", but are you
> > > > taking it ?
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > >
> > > Hi Bob
> <snip>
>
> > > FWIW, these past few days, I have started to feel guilty about not
making
> > enough effort these past
> > > two weeks to get to an AA meeting; not responding to my Sponsor's
comments
> > about my
> > > partially-completed inventory, not completing the rest of my inventory
and
> > not getting on with
> > > non-recovery work that should have been completed weeks ago.
> >
> > God may move mountains, but you have to bring a shovel.
> >
> > Have you not gone to a meeting in two weeks? get off your duff, no
excuses.
> > go, now.
>
> LOL. As my husband is currently hanging from chains attached to a ceiling
hoist over a toilet pan
> and needs me to clean him up after he's finished doing what he's doing,
leaving home to go to a
> meeting right now would not be a good idea :^)) But I get the message.
Thanks Shaw.

but you have time to post away on the computer?

isn't there a way to get a visiting nurse, so that you can get time away?

>
> FWIW, each day, I am greatly benefiting from listening every day to my Joe
and Charlie tapes and
> reading the BB. I've been following Joe and Charlie's advise to read the
books' chapters in order
> and, like them, I've come to see that the book makes more sense when read
like that :^))


I listened to the Joe and Charlie tapes when I was sponsoring myself and not
going to meetings. I noticed a lot of people were pissing me off, and my
friends were telling me a lot of things that I wasn't listening to. i'll
never forget how my friend told me that her sponsor told her that she would
have to step over the bodies to have to get to a meeting. It was then I
realized i was being stepped over.


>
> Best regards
>
> JB
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Moonraker]

"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bp5cu5$u99$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
..
>
> FWIW, each day, I am greatly benefiting from listening every day to my Joe
and Charlie tapes and
> reading the BB. I've been following Joe and Charlie's advise to read the
books' chapters in order
> and, like them, I've come to see that the book makes more sense when read
like that :^))
>
> Best regards
>
> JB
> >
It also helps if you only read just the printed part of each page.

[JB]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:RVqtb.115267$jW5.1460649@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bp5cu5$u99$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
<snip>

> but you have time to post away on the computer?

Yes

> isn't there a way to get a visiting nurse, so that you can get time away?

I'm not going to get into any discussion about how my husband and I manage at home.
<snip>

Shaw, FWIW, I know that I'm starting to slip back in *some* ways and that only I can get myself back
on track. What you and Bob have done for me today is to make me say what I've only been thinking
which is that I need to refocus. That should please Rosie :^))

Best regards

JB

[Shawster]

> <snip>
>
> > but you have time to post away on the computer?
>
> Yes
>
> > isn't there a way to get a visiting nurse, so that you can get time
away?
>
> I'm not going to get into any discussion about how my husband and I manage
at home.
> <snip>

that's fine. I do hope you discuss it with your sponsor, and a medical
professional.


>
> Shaw, FWIW, I know that I'm starting to slip back in *some* ways and that
only I can get myself back
> on track. What you and Bob have done for me today is to make me say what
I've only been thinking
> which is that I need to refocus. That should please Rosie :^))

maybe you'll get a big hug.

[JB]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:mRrtb.115971$jW5.1468317@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
<snip>

JB wrote:
> What you and Bob have done for me today is to make me say what
> I've only been thinking
> > which is that I need to refocus. That should please Rosie :^))

Shaw wrote:

> maybe you'll get a big hug.
>
Oh no :^))

[JB]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:wQqtb.9432$rV.8541@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bp5cu5$u99$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> .
> >
> > FWIW, each day, I am greatly benefiting from listening every day to my Joe
> and Charlie tapes and
> > reading the BB. I've been following Joe and Charlie's advise to read the
> books' chapters in order
> > and, like them, I've come to see that the book makes more sense when read
> like that :^))
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > JB
> > >
> It also helps if you only read just the printed part of each page.

LOL. These days, I find its easier to wait for the meaning of the words to be revealed to me rather
than to go searching for their meaning :^))

JB

[The Other Harry]

[On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:35:01 -0000, "JB"
<JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:]

> LOL. I know you've seen a shrink. Once. You may take AD's. Fine.

I think they will be levelers. Levelors. Maybe I can
hang them on my current copy of Windows.

> Are you still pouring booze down your throat?

Oh yes. Not just a little.

> Given what you've told us about yourself, how sensible is that ?

It makes no sense at all.

On the other hand, maybe it makes a lot of sense. I can't
seem to function otherwise. I have said in an earlier
message that I could not type if I was not around .20 or
higher. That is literally true. If I drop down under
that, I go insane. (Not like I wasn't already.)

I do not like this. I think I know how to get out, but it
is not simply quitting drinking. I thought it was, but
there is more to it. For me there is.

I'm making my list and checking it twice. My 12. I'll
get around to it. Either that or I'm dead.

[JB]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:rokcrvoa5mdkj671olbvgp9slc0986tbnq@4ax.com...
> [On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:35:01 -0000, "JB"
> <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:]
>
<snip> > I do not like this. I think I know how to get out, but it
> is not simply quitting drinking. I thought it was, but
> there is more to it. For me there is.
>
> I'm making my list and checking it twice. My 12. I'll
> get around to it. Either that or I'm dead.

Hi,

There are people on this NG who have managed to stay sober far longer than either you or I have.
All the people I am thinking of have achieved their sobriety by not drinking *at all*, going to AA
meetings several times each week and working it's Twelve Step programme with a Sponsor. I'm
thinking that if you post your list some of these people may post comments on it that you will find
helpful..

Yours in friendship

JB

[The Other Harry]

[On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:12:01 -0000, "JB"
<JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:]

> LOL. As my husband is currently hanging from chains attached
> to a ceiling hoist over a toilet pan...

I'm really not too sure we want to delve these depths.
I'm still on step one. But I will go there if you'd like.

[rosie read and post]

>................. I think I know how to get out, but it
> is not simply quitting drinking. I thought it was, but
> there is more to it.


as long as you continue to drink, you really won't be able to find the
"right path" and the "right answers" for yourself.
alcohol just compounds the problem.
your posts sure do sound painful!

[The Other Harry]

[On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:31:26 GMT, "rosie read and post"
<readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote:]

> your posts sure do sound painful!

They are.

What I am trying to do is to confront myself. The way I
get it, that is big part of step #1.

But they aren't that painful. I fuck around with it.
Like I'd like to do with you. We should at least get
naked on some beach. I think we could do that.

[The Other Harry]

[On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:31:26 GMT, "rosie read and post"
<readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote:]

> as long as you continue to drink, you really won't be able to find the
> "right path" and the "right answers" for yourself.
> alcohol just compounds the problem.
> your posts sure do sound painful!

There is a very rude male expression about somene being so
hot that you can fry an egg on her tit.

[JB]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:qdocrvc1bje2ms7rv1lb7blpcv8i9q8bak@4ax.com...
> [On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:12:01 -0000, "JB"
> <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:]
>
> > LOL. As my husband is currently hanging from chains attached
> > to a ceiling hoist over a toilet pan...
>
> I'm really not too sure we want to delve these depths.
> I'm still on step one. But I will go there if you'd like.
>

LOL. How much have you had to drink today ? :^))

JB

[The Other Harry]

[On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:15:58 -0000, "JB"
<JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:]

> LOL. How much have you had to drink today ? :^))

Quite a bit.

[The Other Harry]

[On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:15:58 -0000, "JB"
<JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:]

>
> LOL. How much have you had to drink today ? :^))

It will take more. Living in a state which has an ABC is
the shits. I have Sunday tomorrow. That will not work.

Take a nap, then go buy a bottle. That will be it.

[JB]

"The Other Harry" <hc.me@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:d9vcrvc855bnbiugk92ia5vnpem69ksfr6@4ax.com...
> [On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:15:58 -0000, "JB"
> <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:]
>
> >
> > LOL. How much have you had to drink today ? :^))
>
> It will take more. Living in a state which has an ABC is
> the shits. I have Sunday tomorrow. That will not work.
>
> Take a nap, then go buy a bottle. That will be it.

Yeah right :^)) I wonder how many times in your 35 years of drinking you have said that :^))

Good luck

JB