STEP TEN

[rosie read and post]

STEP TEN: Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong
promptly admitted it.

"This odd trait of mind and emotion, this perverse wish to hide a
bad motive underneath a good one, permeates human affairs from top to
bottom. This subtle and elusive kind of self-righteousness can underlie
the smallest act or thought. Learning daily to spot, admit, and correct
these flaws is the essence of character-building and good living."

c. 1952, Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, pages 94-95

************************************************** **********************
********

[Kai]

rosie read and post wrote:
> STEP TEN: Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong
> promptly admitted it.
>
> "This odd trait of mind and emotion, this perverse wish to hide a
> bad motive underneath a good one, permeates human affairs from top to
> bottom. This subtle and elusive kind of self-righteousness can
> underlie the smallest act or thought. Learning daily to spot, admit,
> and correct these flaws is the essence of character-building and good
> living."
>
> c. 1952, Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, pages 94-95

My irony meter just exploded. Loudly. And my bogometer pinned too.

Kai

[JB]

*
"Kai" <soberon@NOSPAM.luukku.com> wrote in message news:bnlo60$95f$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> rosie read and post wrote:
> > STEP TEN: Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong
> > promptly admitted it.
> >
> > "This odd trait of mind and emotion, this perverse wish to hide a
> > bad motive underneath a good one, permeates human affairs from top to
> > bottom. This subtle and elusive kind of self-righteousness can
> > underlie the smallest act or thought. Learning daily to spot, admit,
> > and correct these flaws is the essence of character-building and good
> > living."
> >
> > c. 1952, Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, pages 94-95
>
> My irony meter just exploded. Loudly. And my bogometer pinned too.
>
> Kai

Hi Kai,

For several days, I've been thinking about these personal inventories. Today, I do not see how
anyone - and I mean *anyone* - who does not have regrets about things they've said or done would
think it necessary to make amends for them. I know I wouldn't :^))

Yours

JB

[Kai]

JB wrote:
>
> For several days, I've been thinking about these personal
> inventories. Today, I do not see how anyone - and I mean *anyone* -
> who does not have regrets about things they've said or done would
> think it necessary to make amends for them. I know I wouldn't :^))

Well, what is there to amend if no harm was done?

Kai

[Virtualoso]

In article <bnlq00$c81$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>, Kai
<soberon@NOSPAM.luukku.com> wrote:

> JB wrote:
> >
> > For several days, I've been thinking about these personal
> > inventories. Today, I do not see how anyone - and I mean *anyone* -
> > who does not have regrets about things they've said or done would
> > think it necessary to make amends for them. I know I wouldn't :^))
>
> Well, what is there to amend if no harm was done?

I think amend is a fairly neutral word, isn't it? I mean, things can
also be amended as improvements or enhancement or the like, too,
without it necessarily being a "fix" for something wrong.

There's the idea of amending to relieve regret. Or amending to remedy a
harm (according to whom?). Or righting a wrong, possibly whether or not
there's regret or harm. But can there be amending just to because it's
worthwhile?

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Motnb.77689$%C5.44685@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> STEP TEN: Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong
> promptly admitted it.
>
> "This odd trait of mind and emotion, this perverse wish to hide a
> bad motive underneath a good one, permeates human affairs from top to
> bottom. This subtle and elusive kind of self-righteousness can underlie
> the smallest act or thought. Learning daily to spot, admit, and correct
> these flaws is the essence of character-building and good living."
>
> c. 1952, Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, pages 94-95
>
> ************************************************** **********************
> ********
>
Or in Rosie binBlabbin's world, "Continued to take personal inventory and
when we were wrong, promptly changed the subject and found someone else to
blame."

[JB]

"Kai" <soberon@NOSPAM.luukku.com> wrote in message news:bnlq00$c81$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> JB wrote:
> >
> > For several days, I've been thinking about these personal
> > inventories. Today, I do not see how anyone - and I mean *anyone* -
> > who does not have regrets about things they've said or done would
> > think it necessary to make amends for them. I know I wouldn't :^))
>
> Well, what is there to amend if no harm was done?
>
> Kai

Kai,

I don't think that people always agree on what ought to be apologised for. For example, if I
verbally and physically abused you and stole all your money because I thought you deserved such
treatment after doing the same to me, I might never think it necessary to apologise. You might
think otherwise :^)). Likewise, you might not think it necessary to apologise to me for what you'd
done to me. I might think otherwise :^)

As this is the first time that I've had the chance to discuss my thoughts with anyone, I'm not
speaking with confidence. I'd like to hear others' views..

Yours

JB.

[JB]

"Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message news:281020030536516169%virtualoso@dot.com...
> In article <bnlq00$c81$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>, Kai
> <soberon@NOSPAM.luukku.com> wrote:
>
> > JB wrote:
> > >
> > > For several days, I've been thinking about these personal
> > > inventories. Today, I do not see how anyone - and I mean *anyone* -
> > > who does not have regrets about things they've said or done would
> > > think it necessary to make amends for them. I know I wouldn't :^))
> >
> > Well, what is there to amend if no harm was done?
>
> I think amend is a fairly neutral word, isn't it? I mean, things can
> also be amended as improvements or enhancement or the like, too,
> without it necessarily being a "fix" for something wrong.
>
> There's the idea of amending to relieve regret. Or amending to remedy a
> harm (according to whom?). Or righting a wrong, possibly whether or not
> there's regret or harm. But can there be amending just to because it's
> worthwhile?

I hadn't thought of it like that. I can immediately see how this interpretation could lead someone
to change
the way they think, maybe, and behave. It therefore fits nicely with my current thinking about what
AA's Twelve Step programme is
designed to do Thank you.

JB

[Virtualoso]

In article <bnltal$i6h$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB
<JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

> "Kai" <soberon@NOSPAM.luukku.com> wrote in message
> news:bnlq00$c81$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> > JB wrote:
> > >
> > > For several days, I've been thinking about these personal
> > > inventories. Today, I do not see how anyone - and I mean *anyone* -
> > > who does not have regrets about things they've said or done would
> > > think it necessary to make amends for them. I know I wouldn't :^))
> >
> > Well, what is there to amend if no harm was done?
> >
> > Kai
>
> Kai,
>
> I don't think that people always agree on what ought to be apologised for.
> For example, if I
> verbally and physically abused you and stole all your money because I thought
> you deserved such
> treatment after doing the same to me, I might never think it necessary to
> apologise. You might
> think otherwise :^)). Likewise, you might not think it necessary to
> apologise to me for what you'd
> done to me. I might think otherwise :^)
>
> As this is the first time that I've had the chance to discuss my thoughts
> with anyone, I'm not
> speaking with confidence. I'd like to hear others' views..

One of the more important angles struck me as the difference between
apologizing and amends. And the reason and basis for that difference.

[Virtualoso]

In article <bnluae$pib$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB
<JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

> "Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
> news:281020030536516169%virtualoso@dot.com...
> > In article <bnlq00$c81$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>, Kai
> > <soberon@NOSPAM.luukku.com> wrote:
> >
> > > JB wrote:
> > > >
> > > > For several days, I've been thinking about these personal
> > > > inventories. Today, I do not see how anyone - and I mean *anyone* -
> > > > who does not have regrets about things they've said or done would
> > > > think it necessary to make amends for them. I know I wouldn't :^))
> > >
> > > Well, what is there to amend if no harm was done?
> >
> > I think amend is a fairly neutral word, isn't it? I mean, things can
> > also be amended as improvements or enhancement or the like, too,
> > without it necessarily being a "fix" for something wrong.
> >
> > There's the idea of amending to relieve regret. Or amending to remedy a
> > harm (according to whom?). Or righting a wrong, possibly whether or not
> > there's regret or harm. But can there be amending just to because it's
> > worthwhile?
>
> I hadn't thought of it like that. I can immediately see how this
> interpretation could lead someone
> to change
> the way they think, maybe, and behave. It therefore fits nicely with my
> current thinking about what
> AA's Twelve Step programme is
> designed to do Thank you.

You're welcome.

I had a falling out thing with a relative, of some years' standing. We
both had just turned our backs on one another and had no contact.

I'd gotten angry and said/did some things that I realized would have
been better not done, and would have rathered that I'd handled some of
it otherwise, at the time. But it was also true that they'd done some
real offensive and personally adverse things toward me, as well.

After a point, it was irrelevent to even attempt to tally the stuff,
nor to map out who did just what "first" or who might therefore
"deserve" just what. It simply was all messy and unfortunate. And quite
a bit of time had gone by.

Finally, instead of mulling about it any further, I also realized that
I had just not yet simply made an effort to contact them and extend
whatever good will I could muster. So I did. It included a sincere
apology for my own offenses and my offering of genuine goodwill,
inviting.

As it turned out, they did appreciate that. Even offered some extent of
similar amending of their own former stance. But too much time had gone
by to strike up much else and they declined further pursuit. That was
okay, too. I'd done the right thing, we'd both benefitted from it and
at least collaborated in revising the matter mutually to that extent
and can now both leave it be, peacably.

[Craig S.]

"Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
news:281020030536516169%virtualoso@dot.com...
> In article <bnlq00$c81$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>, Kai
> <soberon@NOSPAM.luukku.com> wrote:
>
> > JB wrote:
> > >
> > > For several days, I've been thinking about these personal
> > > inventories. Today, I do not see how anyone - and I mean *anyone* -
> > > who does not have regrets about things they've said or done would
> > > think it necessary to make amends for them. I know I wouldn't :^))
> >
> > Well, what is there to amend if no harm was done?
>
> I think amend is a fairly neutral word, isn't it? I mean, things can
> also be amended as improvements or enhancement or the like, too,
> without it necessarily being a "fix" for something wrong.
>
> There's the idea of amending to relieve regret. Or amending to remedy a
> harm (according to whom?). Or righting a wrong, possibly whether or not
> there's regret or harm. But can there be amending just to because it's
> worthwhile?

If I've done something to get on somebody's bad side, it's generally pretty
easy to spot it in them. But what I consider harms and what others consider
harms sometimes don't coincide. Maybe I think a person is being "overly
sensitive." But who am I to judge that? It's usually easier to simply
apologize if in doubt than to bear the burden of self-righteousness.

[rosie read and post]

"Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
news:281020030536516169%virtualoso@dot.com...


> There's the idea of amending to relieve regret. Or amending to remedy
a
> harm (according to whom?). Or righting a wrong, possibly whether or
not
> there's regret or harm. But can there be amending just to because it's
> worthwhile?


i believe you are quite right virt.
amending behavior (for me using a killfile for the rest of the month )
to stop myself from arguing with some folks, and cluttering up these
newsgroups has been done, and i believe that it IS WORTHWHILE to the
group, and the possible still suffering alcoholic.
as you said, i have no regret about my statements, to some of these
malcontents.


rosie






> In article <bnlq00$c81$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>, Kai
> <soberon@NOSPAM.luukku.com> wrote:
>
> > JB wrote:
> > >
> > > For several days, I've been thinking about these personal
> > > inventories. Today, I do not see how anyone - and I mean
*anyone* -
> > > who does not have regrets about things they've said or done would
> > > think it necessary to make amends for them. I know I wouldn't
:^))
> >
> > Well, what is there to amend if no harm was done?
>
> I think amend is a fairly neutral word, isn't it? I mean, things can
> also be amended as improvements or enhancement or the like, too,
> without it necessarily being a "fix" for something wrong.
>
> There's the idea of amending to relieve regret. Or amending to remedy
a
> harm (according to whom?). Or righting a wrong, possibly whether or
not
> there's regret or harm. But can there be amending just to because it's
> worthwhile?

[JB]

"Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message news:281020030644531088%virtualoso@dot.com...
> In article <bnltal$i6h$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB
> <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

> > I don't think that people always agree on what ought to be apologised for.
> > For example, if I
> > verbally and physically abused you and stole all your money because I thought
> > you deserved such
> > treatment after doing the same to me, I might never think it necessary to
> > apologise. You might
> > think otherwise :^)). Likewise, you might not think it necessary to
> > apologise to me for what you'd
> > done to me. I might think otherwise :^)
> >
> > As this is the first time that I've had the chance to discuss my thoughts
> > with anyone, I'm not
> > speaking with confidence. I'd like to hear others' views..
>
> One of the more important angles struck me as the difference between
> apologizing and amends. And the reason and basis for that difference.

Hi Virt (do you mind me shortening your name ?),

Until I read your earlier post I'd not thought about there being any difference between apologising
and making amends. I'm wiser now and happy to be so :))

Best regards

JB

[Tommy]

"JB" <> I hadn't thought of it like that. I can immediately see how this
interpretation could lead someone
> to change
> the way they think, maybe, and behave. It therefore fits nicely with my
current thinking about what
> AA's Twelve Step programme is
> designed to do Thank you.
>
> JB

The 'danger' is making amends to make 'you' feel better because it appears
the right thing to do. Personally, I believe the time lag in making amends
is to allow me to become willing to be truly sorry for what I've done.

Its all very well in early sobriety to make a list of those we've
harmed/wronged, but are we really sorry because we regret it - and not
because we MUST clean house.
Seems a somewhat thick line to me
Cheers
Tommy

[JB]

"Tommy" <Tommyschleprechaun@anyway.com> wrote in message
news:bnm7bu$138515$1@ID-49277.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "JB" <> I hadn't thought of it like that. I can immediately see how this
> interpretation could lead someone
> > to change
> > the way they think, maybe, and behave. It therefore fits nicely with my
> current thinking about what
> > AA's Twelve Step programme is
> > designed to do Thank you.
> >
> > JB
>
> The 'danger' is making amends to make 'you' feel better because it appears
> the right thing to do. Personally, I believe the time lag in making amends
> is to allow me to become willing to be truly sorry for what I've done.
> Its all very well in early sobriety to make a list of those we've
> harmed/wronged, but are we really sorry because we regret it - and not
> because we MUST clean house.
> Seems a somewhat thick line to me
> Cheers
> Tommy
>
I think you make a very good point. While doing my Step 4 inventory, I have thought a lot about how
I've behaved over the years. At this time, I have no desire to make peace with some of those with
whom I am no longer on friendly terms. The first move would have to come from me and I can't do
this while I've still painful memories of the part they played in breaking up our relationship.

Yours

JB

[JB]

> "Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message news:281020030536516169%virtualoso@dot.com...
> > In article <bnlq00$c81$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>, Kai
> > <soberon@NOSPAM.luukku.com> wrote:
> >
> > I think amend is a fairly neutral word, isn't it? I mean, things can
> > also be amended as improvements or enhancement or the like, too,
> > without it necessarily being a "fix" for something wrong.
> >
> > There's the idea of amending to relieve regret. Or amending to remedy a
> > harm (according to whom?). Or righting a wrong, possibly whether or not
> > there's regret or harm. But can there be amending just to because it's
> > worthwhile?

Virt,

I've thought more about your post and only now am I beginning to think that I have understood what
you said. This is where I'm now at with my understanding of the word "amend" Comments welcome:

"Amend"

1. - in the sense of "making an improvement" - means to me, in the context of recovering from
alcoholism, changing myself so that I no longer want to drink; can accept life on its terms and
enjoy my sobriety.

2. - in the sense of relieving regret - means either apologising for things I've said and done and
really meaning it or stopping regretting having not done or said certain things.

3. - in the sense of righting a wrong - means either apologising and really meaning it and/or
finding some other way of trying to put things right..

4. - in the sense of amending just because it's worthwhile. In the past, in order to try to restore
peace, I've sometimes apologised for being in the wrong and also when I've not been in the wrong.
If I think that I should not be the only one apologising, I have harboured resentments against the
person to whom I've apologised. If the relationship has continued, I've not been an ease in it and
further down the line, that resentment surfaces and causes further problems in the relationship.

Although I do not think that No 4 is good for me, at this time, I cannot think of a better way to
handle such situations. Comments welcome.

Best regards

JB

[Robert McGregor]

"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bnltal$i6h$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Kai" <soberon@NOSPAM.luukku.com> wrote in message
news:bnlq00$c81$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> > JB wrote:
> > >
> > > For several days, I've been thinking about these personal
> > > inventories. Today, I do not see how anyone - and I mean *anyone* -
> > > who does not have regrets about things they've said or done would
> > > think it necessary to make amends for them. I know I wouldn't :^))
> >
> > Well, what is there to amend if no harm was done?
> >
> > Kai
>
> Kai,
>
> I don't think that people always agree on what ought to be apologised for.
For example, if I
> verbally and physically abused you and stole all your money because I
thought you deserved such
> treatment after doing the same to me, I might never think it necessary to
apologise. You might
> think otherwise :^)). Likewise, you might not think it necessary to
apologise to me for what you'd
> done to me. I might think otherwise :^)
>
> As this is the first time that I've had the chance to discuss my thoughts
with anyone, I'm not
> speaking with confidence. I'd like to hear others' views..
>
> Yours
>
> JB.
>
>

Given that step 10 is not step four, given we understand taking the steps to
be a growth process, given step four is not about amends at all, I think if
I had pre-determined my step nine on the strength of my awareness at step
four, I would have been just as screwed up at my step 10, as I was at step
one;-)

Bob

[Tommy]

"JB" in the relationship.
>
> Although I do not think that No 4 is good for me, at this time, I cannot
think of a better way to
> handle such situations. Comments welcome.
>
> Best regards
>
> JB

"In the relationship" - you are distancing yourself by calling 'it' a
relationship.
Think about it. Name the person, not to me, but to yourself. Then name
your part in the 'wrongs'. I find it difficult labelling a mishappening,
or a misunderstanding as a 'wrong'. Does every incident wherein two people
disagree have to be a 'wrong' on one side or another. Or is that our
defensive perception, our mechanism for finding a fault, either within
ourselves or others. Victims curse huh:-)

Short version ?
Do the thing right - or - do the right thing
(And you can do both you know :-)
Cheers
Tommy

[Matt]

You know, I've wondered about that too. I haven't left much of a trail of
shit. If I didn't have any money, I didn't get high :(

Matt


"Kai" <soberon@NOSPAM.luukku.com> wrote in message
news:bnlq00$c81$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> JB wrote:
> >
> > For several days, I've been thinking about these personal
> > inventories. Today, I do not see how anyone - and I mean *anyone* -
> > who does not have regrets about things they've said or done would
> > think it necessary to make amends for them. I know I wouldn't :^))
>
> Well, what is there to amend if no harm was done?
>
> Kai
>
>
>

[Tom G.]

"rosie read and post" wrote in message:
> "Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
>
> > There's the idea of amending to relieve regret. Or amending to remedy
> a
> > harm (according to whom?). Or righting a wrong, possibly whether or
> not
> > there's regret or harm. But can there be amending just to because it's
> > worthwhile?
>
>
> i believe you are quite right virt.
> amending behavior (for me using a killfile for the rest of the month )
> to stop myself from arguing with some folks, and cluttering up these
> newsgroups has been done, and i believe that it IS WORTHWHILE to the
> group, and the possible still suffering alcoholic.
> as you said, i have no regret about my statements, to some of these
> malcontents.
>
>
> rosie


Oh hell, Rosie must have me killfiled...:O) I haven't
been called a malcontent for weeks now... So, Rosie's
version of an amends is ignorin' the person she possibly
offended...?? Acceptin' no blame for herself, just ignoring
the situation... I don't think it's supposed to be done that
way, what the hell's the point...??

Tom


\\\|///
\\ - - //
( @ @ )
---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
--------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <bnlq00$c81$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>, Kai
> > <soberon@NOSPAM.luukku.com> wrote:
> >
> > > JB wrote:
> > > >
> > > > For several days, I've been thinking about these personal
> > > > inventories. Today, I do not see how anyone - and I mean
> *anyone* -
> > > > who does not have regrets about things they've said or done would
> > > > think it necessary to make amends for them. I know I wouldn't
> :^))
> > >
> > > Well, what is there to amend if no harm was done?
> >
> > I think amend is a fairly neutral word, isn't it? I mean, things can
> > also be amended as improvements or enhancement or the like, too,
> > without it necessarily being a "fix" for something wrong.
> >
> > There's the idea of amending to relieve regret. Or amending to remedy
> a
> > harm (according to whom?). Or righting a wrong, possibly whether or
> not
> > there's regret or harm. But can there be amending just to because it's
> > worthwhile?
>
>

[Moonraker]

"Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
news:WJCnb.121627$k74.69441@lakeread05...
>
> Oh hell, Rosie must have me killfiled...:O) I haven't
> been called a malcontent for weeks now... So, Rosie's
> version of an amends is ignorin' the person she possibly
> offended...?? Acceptin' no blame for herself, just ignoring
> the situation... I don't think it's supposed to be done that
> way, what the hell's the point...??
>
> Tom
>
Ah, I don't think that's 'zactly the way Rosie binBlabbin works.

When you are all wrapped up in your own self-important, arrogant,
delusionary perfection, one would never need to make any amends, right?
It's hard to be humble when you are perfect in every way, as the old CW song
goes.

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dbwnb.77706$%C5.67539@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> "Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
> news:281020030536516169%virtualoso@dot.com...
>
>
> > There's the idea of amending to relieve regret. Or amending to remedy
> a
> > harm (according to whom?). Or righting a wrong, possibly whether or
> not
> > there's regret or harm. But can there be amending just to because it's
> > worthwhile?
>
>
> i believe you are quite right virt.
> amending behavior (for me using a killfile for the rest of the month )
> to stop myself from arguing with some folks, and cluttering up these
> newsgroups has been done, and i believe that it IS WORTHWHILE to the
> group, and the possible still suffering alcoholic.
> as you said, i have no regret about my statements, to some of these
> malcontents.
>
>
> rosie
>

If the sanctimonious slut really believed her silence was for the benefit of
the possible still suffering alcoholic, why would she promise to limit her
much vaunted kill file for merely the rest of the month?

Bob

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:okqGa.91039$jT4.1835722@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>NO, i don't pray for those who suffer to "get what they
> deserve"................................
> my god!

[Virtualoso]

In article <bnmmbf$coi$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB
<JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

> > "Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
> > news:281020030536516169%virtualoso@dot.com...
> > > In article <bnlq00$c81$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>, Kai
> > > <soberon@NOSPAM.luukku.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I think amend is a fairly neutral word, isn't it? I mean, things can
> > > also be amended as improvements or enhancement or the like, too,
> > > without it necessarily being a "fix" for something wrong.
> > >
> > > There's the idea of amending to relieve regret. Or amending to remedy a
> > > harm (according to whom?). Or righting a wrong, possibly whether or not
> > > there's regret or harm. But can there be amending just to because it's
> > > worthwhile?
>
> Virt,
>
> I've thought more about your post and only now am I beginning to think that I
> have understood what
> you said. This is where I'm now at with my understanding of the word "amend"
> Comments welcome:
>
> "Amend"
>
> 1. - in the sense of "making an improvement" - means to me, in the context
> of recovering from
> alcoholism, changing myself so that I no longer want to drink; can accept
> life on its terms and
> enjoy my sobriety.
>
> 2. - in the sense of relieving regret - means either apologising for things
> I've said and done and
> really meaning it or stopping regretting having not done or said certain
> things.
>
> 3. - in the sense of righting a wrong - means either apologising and really
> meaning it and/or
> finding some other way of trying to put things right..
>
> 4. - in the sense of amending just because it's worthwhile. In the past, in
> order to try to restore
> peace, I've sometimes apologised for being in the wrong and also when I've
> not been in the wrong.
> If I think that I should not be the only one apologising, I have harboured
> resentments against the
> person to whom I've apologised. If the relationship has continued, I've not
> been an ease in it and
> further down the line, that resentment surfaces and causes further problems
> in the relationship.
>
> Although I do not think that No 4 is good for me, at this time, I cannot
> think of a better way to
> handle such situations. Comments welcome.

Well, looks to me that you're working with it. Best to you with all
that.

I came to find that my present was seeming composed of a mix of what I
did do, and what I didn't do. By at least making efforts to remix what
seemed possible and worth the while, I was able to set some things
right-er and benefit others and, sometimes, myself. And now the present
continues to domino forward to later. Such is life. My life, that is.

Some of the trickiest stuff is the stuff mostly about what we "feel
about" various things, eh? And just how that matters or affects what we
actually say and do, regardless. Especially if entertaining notions
about "honesty" or its conceptual twin: "emotional honesty," which can
be a curious idea, particularly in practice.

[Mark Warner]

JB wrote:
> "Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote
>>
>> One of the more important angles struck me as the difference between
>> apologizing and amends. And the reason and basis for that difference.
>
> Until I read your earlier post I'd not thought about there being any
> difference between apologising and making amends. I'm wiser now and
> happy to be so :))


Buddy has ruled on this. 'Amends' in AA parlance is equivalent to
apology. End of discussion. Don't need to change anything, don't need to
make restitution, none of that shit.

You know what they say... sometimes doin' it the AA way *is* the easier,
softer way.

--
Mark Warner
lose .inhibitions when replying

[rosie read and post]

> Buddy has ruled on this. 'Amends' in AA parlance is equivalent to
> apology. End of discussion. Don't need to change anything, don't need
to
> make restitution, none of that shit.
>
> You know what they say... sometimes doin' it the AA way *is* the
easier,
> softer way.
>
> --
> Mark Warner


sorry but i like my sponsors idea better.................AMENDS mean TO
REPAIR.........................(my side of the bridge)

[GaryE]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:07:37 -0500, "Mark Warner"
<mhwarner.inhibitions@insightbb.com> wrote:

>
>Buddy has ruled on this. 'Amends' in AA parlance is equivalent to
>apology. End of discussion. Don't need to change anything, don't need to
>make restitution, none of that shit.
>
Obviously a final authority is needed, since the BB doesn't have
clarity. Simple, but not clear. It would appear that dictionaries
may have been ruled out as a source of definition. I noticed, no one
cited the dictionary. The BB needs to be taken as it is written,
which is exactly why study groups are formed to find out what various
people thinks the BB means. And that's why Thumpers exist to not only
quote it but to interpret it exactly as its written.

That's a clear picture, isn't it?

Best,
GaryE

[Shawster]

"Mark Warner" <mhwarner.inhibitions@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:bnn78d$12vtll$1@ID-49293.news.uni-berlin.de...
> JB wrote:
> > "Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote
> >>
> >> One of the more important angles struck me as the difference between
> >> apologizing and amends. And the reason and basis for that difference.
> >
> > Until I read your earlier post I'd not thought about there being any
> > difference between apologising and making amends. I'm wiser now and
> > happy to be so :))
>
>
> Buddy has ruled on this. 'Amends' in AA parlance is equivalent to
> apology. End of discussion. Don't need to change anything, don't need to
> make restitution, none of that shit.
>
> You know what they say... sometimes doin' it the AA way *is* the easier,
> softer way.

I don't know buddy. he's wrong. amends in the big book include paying back
debtors, even if it is only a buck a month.


>
> --
> Mark Warner
> lose .inhibitions when replying
>
>
>

[Mikey]

"> I don't know buddy. he's wrong. amends in the big book include paying
back
> debtors, even if it is only a buck a month.

Some guy wrote a book, and you declare it is the last word??

That's pretty cool. I choose J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Hobbit" to set the rules
for my life.

Can you tell me what qualifies Bill Wilson's writings to base my life on?
Bill Wilson wrote the "Big Book". What makes him the authority? I think I
will write my own book. Oh, wait, I better put that off until I have 3 years
of not drinking under my belt. Then, I am qualified to write a book telling
alcoholics how to live their lives. Yeah, that's it, after I don't drink for
3 years I can write a book that is the final word on how to stay sober.....

.....sigh....

Have a great day, enjoy whatever sobriety you have. And, if you are still
struggling, I wish you all the best.

--Mikey--

[Shawster]

"Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
news:eFGnb.1420$DL6.250999@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
>
> "> I don't know buddy. he's wrong. amends in the big book include paying
> back
> > debtors, even if it is only a buck a month.
>
> Some guy wrote a book, and you declare it is the last word??

some guy?? I declared what?? I know, you are just mad because you can't
read.

>
> That's pretty cool. I choose J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Hobbit" to set the
rules
> for my life.
>
> Can you tell me what qualifies Bill Wilson's writings to base my life on?

because it works...

instead of the hobbit, why not try rick warren's "Purpose driven life" or
any other book.

Socrates, aristotle, lao tsu, shoot, sorry, I'm a bit sleepy or else I'd
write an index to the library for you.

Any reason you are so biased against a book?

> Bill Wilson wrote the "Big Book". What makes him the authority?

well, he tried something, it worked. He shared it, it worked for more
people. That would be the definition for "authority"

I think I
> will write my own book. Oh, wait, I better put that off until I have 3
years
> of not drinking under my belt. Then, I am qualified to write a book
telling
> alcoholics how to live their lives. Yeah, that's it, after I don't drink
for
> 3 years I can write a book that is the final word on how to stay
sober.....

and if it works, and other people try it, and it works, then it goes round
the world and works for millions... then some know it all can bash you for
no apparent reason.
>
> ....sigh....
>
> Have a great day, enjoy whatever sobriety you have. And, if you are still
> struggling, I wish you all the best.

by taking away my book?

I really have to watch my headers and not croospost.

goodbye
>
> --Mikey--
>
>
>

[Mikey]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ZdHnb.69371$Go5.1143908@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
>
> "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
> news:eFGnb.1420$DL6.250999@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
> >
> > "> I don't know buddy. he's wrong. amends in the big book include
paying
> > back
> > > debtors, even if it is only a buck a month.
> >
> > Some guy wrote a book, and you declare it is the last word??
>
> some guy?? I declared what?? I know, you are just mad because you can't
> read.

Well, if I could not read, then I could not very well be posting here, could
I?


> >
> > That's pretty cool. I choose J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Hobbit" to set the
> rules
> > for my life.
> >
> > Can you tell me what qualifies Bill Wilson's writings to base my life
on?
>
> because it works...

Who does it work for? Please provide me with something other than anecdotal
scribblings that "it" works.
>
> instead of the hobbit, why not try rick warren's "Purpose driven life" or
> any other book.

EXACTLY!! We agree! Any book at all might work just as well!
>
> Socrates, aristotle, lao tsu, shoot, sorry, I'm a bit sleepy or else I'd
> write an index to the library for you.

You are ranting now. Oh, you are sleepy. I'll forgive the rantings about
library indices for now.

> Any reason you are so biased against a book?

Yes. Because it was written by a stark raving mad lunatic.
>
> > Bill Wilson wrote the "Big Book". What makes him the authority?
>
> well, he tried something, it worked. He shared it, it worked for more
> people. That would be the definition for "authority"

Piss poor. It did not work at all (shall I quote Bill's own written words to
back that up, or are you sufficiently educated in the history of AA and Bill
Wilson to be on the same "beam" as me?). Besides, my Webster's Dictionary
does NOT include Bill Wilson's writings as a definition of authority.
>
> I think I
> > will write my own book. Oh, wait, I better put that off until I have 3
> years
> > of not drinking under my belt. Then, I am qualified to write a book
> telling
> > alcoholics how to live their lives. Yeah, that's it, after I don't drink
> for
> > 3 years I can write a book that is the final word on how to stay
> sober.....
>
> and if it works, and other people try it, and it works, then it goes round
> the world and works for millions... then some know it all can bash you for
> no apparent reason.

No apparent reason other than it is nothing more than the writing of a
friggin' lunatic! Oh, and when I write my book, I will be sure to mention
you as one of those that could not put forth "rigorous honesty".


>
> by taking away my book?

I'm not taking away your precious book. It is still right there for you to
read.
>
> I really have to watch my headers and not croospost.

Huh?? What are you talking about??

Ah, have a swell evening anyway. Just don't drink, buddy.

--Mikey--

[Virtualoso]

In article <3abupvgnkssi447mjn4fkj9pqbm7ubl39k@4ax.com>, GaryE
<garyexxxnospam@nadaswbell.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:07:37 -0500, "Mark Warner"
> <mhwarner.inhibitions@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Buddy has ruled on this. 'Amends' in AA parlance is equivalent to
> >apology. End of discussion. Don't need to change anything, don't need to
> >make restitution, none of that shit.
> >
> Obviously a final authority is needed, since the BB doesn't have
> clarity. Simple, but not clear. It would appear that dictionaries
> may have been ruled out as a source of definition. I noticed, no one
> cited the dictionary. The BB needs to be taken as it is written,
> which is exactly why study groups are formed to find out what various
> people thinks the BB means. And that's why Thumpers exist to not only
> quote it but to interpret it exactly as its written.
>
> That's a clear picture, isn't it?

Gosh. You figure they've got something wrong with that?

[Virtualoso]

In article <eFGnb.1420$DL6.250999@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Mikey
<gubba@hobo.net> wrote:

> Can you tell me what qualifies Bill Wilson's writings to base my life on?

What do you base your life on?

[Mikey]

I asked you first. You answer my question, and then I will answer yours. I
do have an answer, by the way, so make yours count.

Hint: I do NOT base my life on anything that some crazy drunk guy wrote.

Have a great evening, I am going to sleep now.

Don't drink!!

--Mikey--


"Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
news:281020032110199280%virtualoso@dot.com...
> In article <eFGnb.1420$DL6.250999@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Mikey
> <gubba@hobo.net> wrote:
>
> > Can you tell me what qualifies Bill Wilson's writings to base my life
on?
>
> What do you base your life on?

[Virtualoso]

In article <5sInb.5233$DL6.740358@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Mikey
<gubba@hobo.net> wrote:

> "Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
> news:281020032110199280%virtualoso@dot.com...
> > In article <eFGnb.1420$DL6.250999@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Mikey
> > <gubba@hobo.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Can you tell me what qualifies Bill Wilson's writings to base my life
> on?
> >
> > What do you base your life on?

> I asked you first. You answer my question, and then I will answer yours. I
> do have an answer, by the way, so make yours count.
>
> Hint: I do NOT base my life on anything that some crazy drunk guy wrote.

And I don't base my posting on what some crazy guy directs.

[Shawster]

> > >
> > > "> I don't know buddy. he's wrong. amends in the big book include
> paying
> > > back
> > > > debtors, even if it is only a buck a month.
> > >
> > > Some guy wrote a book, and you declare it is the last word??
> >
> > some guy?? I declared what?? I know, you are just mad because you can't
> > read.
>
> Well, if I could not read, then I could not very well be posting here,
could
> I?

oh, your logic is soooooo logical. gosh, got me there. ow.
there is more to reading than moving your lips. you seem to be seening words
that aren't there. do try to stick to the black parts of the words.

>
>
> > >
> > > That's pretty cool. I choose J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Hobbit" to set the
> > rules
> > > for my life.
> > >
> > > Can you tell me what qualifies Bill Wilson's writings to base my life
> on?
> >
> > because it works...
>
> Who does it work for? Please provide me with something other than
anecdotal
> scribblings that "it" works.

take the quotes off, it's not "it" it is it. If I wrote a book about fixing
a car, and you followed it, and fixed your car... would it matter whether I
was a recovering drunk or not? nope.


> >
> > instead of the hobbit, why not try rick warren's "Purpose driven life"
or
> > any other book.
>
> EXACTLY!! We agree! Any book at all might work just as well!

no, dipshit we don't agree. that is a specific book, not any book. are you
sure you can read?


he library for you.
>
> You are ranting now. Oh, you are sleepy. I'll forgive the rantings about
> library indices for now.

whatever dipshit

>
> > Any reason you are so biased against a book?
>
> Yes. Because it was written by a stark raving mad lunatic.

so were a lot of good books. I bet you just love poe and Neitzche.


> >
> > > Bill Wilson wrote the "Big Book". What makes him the authority?
> >
> > well, he tried something, it worked. He shared it, it worked for more
> > people. That would be the definition for "authority"
>
> Piss poor. It did not work at all (shall I quote Bill's own written words
to
> back that up, or are you sufficiently educated in the history of AA and
Bill
> Wilson to be on the same "beam" as me?). Besides, my Webster's Dictionary
> does NOT include Bill Wilson's writings as a definition of authority.

again, it worked for me, so therefore it works. basic logic. waaay over
your head though. what does your dictionary define authority as? hint, it's
in the root *author*

> >
> > I think I
> > > will write my own book. Oh, wait, I better put that off until I have 3
> > years
> > > of not drinking under my belt. Then, I am qualified to write a book
> > telling
> > > alcoholics how to live their lives. Yeah, that's it, after I don't
drink
> > for
> > > 3 years I can write a book that is the final word on how to stay
> > sober.....
> >
> > and if it works, and other people try it, and it works, then it goes
round
> > the world and works for millions... then some know it all can bash you
for
> > no apparent reason.
>
> No apparent reason other than it is nothing more than the writing of a
> friggin' lunatic! Oh, and when I write my book, I will be sure to mention
> you as one of those that could not put forth "rigorous honesty".

as spoken by the authoring lunatic.
>
>
> >
> > by taking away my book?
>
> I'm not taking away your precious book. It is still right there for you to
> read.
> >
> > I really have to watch my headers and not croospost.
>
> Huh?? What are you talking about??

crossposting. that is where a message goes to more than one newsgroup at a
time. do slow down a bit so that your lips can catch up to your eyes. or
just put down the keyboard and put on your tin foil helmet.

>
> Ah, have a swell evening anyway. Just don't drink, buddy.

I will, but it won't be because you told me not to.


>
> --Mikey--
>
>
>
>

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:00:17 -0000, "Tommy"
<Tommyschleprechaun@anyway.com> wrote:

>The 'danger' is making amends to make 'you' feel better because it appears
>the right thing to do. Personally, I believe the time lag in making amends
>is to allow me to become willing to be truly sorry for what I've done.

That, and in my experience/observation it's generally not a good idea
to try making amends too quickly whilst another person is still
feeling raw anger.

Also, do I have any expectations regarding the outcome?

Getting to understand expectations is perhaps part of why Step 8 is
where it is. I used to drink on things not turning out as I thought
they should.

>Its all very well in early sobriety to make a list of those we've
>harmed/wronged, but are we really sorry because we regret it - and not
>because we MUST clean house.
>Seems a somewhat thick line to me

I perceive 2 distinct parts to Step 8:

1. Made a list of all those we had harmed.
2. Became willing to make amends to them all.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:49:11 -0600, "rosie read and post"
<readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote:

>i believe you are quite right virt.
>amending behavior (for me using a killfile for the rest of the month )
>to stop myself from arguing with some folks, and cluttering up these
>newsgroups has been done, and i believe that it IS WORTHWHILE to the
>group, and the possible still suffering alcoholic.
>as you said, i have no regret about my statements, to some of these
>malcontents.

Some confusion between Steps 7 and 9?

For me, Step 7 is about righting old behaviour (which can include not
indulging arguments).

Step 9 is about correcting my own past wrongs, where appropriate.

--
Blue Moon

[Kai]

Blue Moon wrote:
>
> I perceive 2 distinct parts to Step 8:
>
> 1. Made a list of all those we had harmed.

Seconded. And here in between the crucial part "and in so doing".

> 2. Became willing to make amends to them all.

I most certainly wasn't willing to make amends to some people. The
very thought of the humiliation and embarrassment, fear of physical
attack in some case, seemed very unpleasant to put it mildly. The act
of making the list, and all the thinking, memory digging, sweating of
shame and looking at the events from different angles involved in the
process changed my way of thinking.

I remember thinking that what if a person, say, stoned my kitchen
window to pieces every morning for a year or so. Then this person
suddenly stopped the activity. Would I think the person has somehow
'made amends' to me by simply stopping it? Naw, I'd have probably been
happy he'd stopped, but I'd still have thought he's a jerk and hated
his guts for what he did. But if he was to come to my door one day, to
explain how he had been mentally ill, how he was now much better,
asking for my forgiveness and willing to pay for all the costs he'd
caused, I'd have forgiven him that instant.

Kai

[Tommy]

"Blue Moon" > On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:00:17 -0000, "Tommy"
> <Tommyschleprechaun@anyway.com> wrote:
>
> Also, do I have any expectations regarding the outcome?
>
> Getting to understand expectations is perhaps part of why Step 8 is
> where it is. I used to drink on things not turning out as I thought
> they should.

> I perceive 2 distinct parts to Step 8:
>
> 1. Made a list of all those we had harmed.
> 2. Became willing to make amends to them all.

Providing that to do so won't injure them or others - see there's
practically an opt out clause in most writings or understandings of the
steps (IMO).
Injuring 'others' is to include yourself, and that takes in your
expectations, or what if you got a refusal/rebuttal. Nothing like rejection
to sharpen up a nice big burning desire to 'get ones own back'.
'Became willing' is another opt out, or delaying mechanism to give time to
get the full benefit of understanding more the why of doing the step than
the actual doing of it.
Plenty of time. I'll get flamed for promoting this attitude and opinion -
but far too often, encouragement is given to newly sober members to do the
steps/practice the programme, clean house, when if actual fact we don't have
the wherewithal to buy the cleaning materials even.

When is the time right - again, sharing inside the rooms, nabbing someone
with a good friendly and helpful soul, it should be easily seen who people
look to for advice and guidance. Otherwise read the book I say, really read
and parse and examine the sentences individually and use a dictionary if
necessary. It worked for me when I finally realized with a bump, that I
didn't know everything. Using the dictionary is three-fold, it helps pass
the time, it also educates me on proper usage of words, (never yet opened
one without reading a few more words than I meant to) and finally for me
anyway, it shows me that I don't know the half of what I thought I knew.

Gawd thats an enlightenment, and a relief. There's 800,000 words in my
dictionary, and it relieved me greatly to know that the average person has
the capacity to use 20,000 of them, although at any given day he averages
out at 2,500 different ones.
An hour long AA meeting might make 7,500 words, though how many are
different would be debateable I reckon. Lots of people repeat and repeat,
and bear in mind this also, if one were to take out a, the, and, for, from
etc from the 12 step pamphlet, you'd be left with 28 words not repeated - go
on I dare anyone to try it:-))

AA taught me this in its own way you know, leastwise I mightn't have
realized it without my sobriety and entry to AA membership (by 'this' I mean
that I don't know everything, am never likely to know everything, and still
would fight to the bitter end to prove that I know more than someone else).
Wonder if God had anything to do with it, nahh he didn't speak English did
he :-)


Cheers
Tommy
> Blue Moon

[Kai]

Tommy wrote:
> "Blue Moon" > On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:00:17 -0000, "Tommy"
>
>><Tommyschleprechaun@anyway.com> wrote:
>>
>>Also, do I have any expectations regarding the outcome?
>>
>>Getting to understand expectations is perhaps part of why Step 8 is
>>where it is. I used to drink on things not turning out as I thought
>>they should.
>
>
>>I perceive 2 distinct parts to Step 8:
>>
>>1. Made a list of all those we had harmed.
>>2. Became willing to make amends to them all.
>
>
> Providing that to do so won't injure them or others - see there's
> practically an opt out clause in most writings or understandings of the
> steps (IMO).

Except that I don't see how it would be possible to injure anyone by
making a list and becoming willing to make amends. The evaluation of
the said possible further harm falls in the domain of the step 9. The
distinction is clear, and justified IMO.

The way I see it, the relationship between steps 8 and 9 is somewhat
similar to the one between steps 4 and 5. One shouldn't think too much
about the possibly fearsome step 5 while making the inventory. The
same goes for step 8, don't think about the 'act of making amends',
but concentrate on the inventory. I feel this approach helped me to
come up with a probably more honest result in both steps 4 and 8.

Kai

[Robert McGregor]

"Tommy" <Tommyschleprechaun@anyway.com> wrote in message
news:bnrkub$155vt6$1@ID-49277.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Blue Moon" > On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:00:17 -0000, "Tommy"
> > <Tommyschleprechaun@anyway.com> wrote:
> >
> > Also, do I have any expectations regarding the outcome?
> >
> > Getting to understand expectations is perhaps part of why Step 8 is
> > where it is. I used to drink on things not turning out as I thought
> > they should.
>
> > I perceive 2 distinct parts to Step 8:
> >
> > 1. Made a list of all those we had harmed.
> > 2. Became willing to make amends to them all.
>
> Providing that to do so won't injure them or others - see there's
> practically an opt out clause in most writings or understandings of the
> steps (IMO).

Have you checked that vaunted dictionary for the difference between
"practically" and practicable?

> Injuring 'others' is to include yourself,

Did they teach you that at Schizophrenics Anonymous?
http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_79.htm
"Although these reparations take innumerable forms, there are some general
principles which we find guiding. Reminding ourselves that we have decided
to go to any lengths to find a spiritual experience, we ask that we be given
strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal
consequences may be. We may lose our position or reputation or face jail,
but we are willing. We have to be. We must not shrink at anything."

>and that takes in your
> expectations, or what if you got a refusal/rebuttal.
>Nothing like rejection
> to sharpen up a nice big burning desire to 'get ones own back'.
> 'Became willing' is another opt out, or delaying mechanism to give time to
> get the full benefit of understanding more the why of doing the step than
> the actual doing of it.

Really? So the advice in the BB, http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_76.htm is an
opt out?
"If we haven't the will to do this, we ask until it comes"

> Plenty of time. I'll get flamed for promoting this attitude and
pinion -
> but far too often, encouragement is given to newly sober members to do the
> steps/practice the programme, clean house, when if actual fact we don't
have
> the wherewithal to buy the cleaning materials even.

Ah, off course! The chemical solution!


Bob;-)

[Blue Moon]

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:23:01 -0000, "Tommy"
<Tommyschleprechaun@anyway.com> wrote:

>
>"Blue Moon" > On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:00:17 -0000, "Tommy"
>> <Tommyschleprechaun@anyway.com> wrote:

>> I perceive 2 distinct parts to Step 8:
>>
>> 1. Made a list of all those we had harmed.
>> 2. Became willing to make amends to them all.
>
>Providing that to do so won't injure them or others

No, that's in Step 9. Step 8 really has little to do with 9.

>see there's practically an opt out clause in most writings or understandings of the
>steps (IMO).

Seems to me that's where "conscience" and, ultimately, "alcohol" come
into play.

--
Blue Moon

[Virtualoso]

In article <bnrkub$155vt6$1@ID-49277.news.uni-berlin.de>, Tommy
<Tommyschleprechaun@anyway.com> wrote:

> Injuring 'others' is to include yourself ...
> ... use a dictionary if
> necessary. It worked for me when I finally realized with a bump, that I
> didn't know everything. Using the dictionary is three-fold, it helps pass
> the time, it also educates me on proper usage of words, (never yet opened
> one without reading a few more words than I meant to) and finally for me
> anyway, it shows me that I don't know the half of what I thought I knew.

Which dictionary are you using that has you understanding "others" as
being yourself?

[Tommy]

"Robert McGregor"> Did they teach you that at Schizophrenics Anonymous?
> http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_79.htm
> "Although these reparations take innumerable forms, there are some general
> principles which we find guiding. Reminding ourselves that we have decided
> to go to any lengths to find a spiritual experience, we ask that we be
given
> strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal
> consequences may be. We may lose our position or reputation or face jail,
> but we are willing. We have to be. We must not shrink at anything."

> Ah, off course! The chemical solution!
>
>
> Bob;-)

Well for your erudition Bob, I'm not sure if I'm a real alcoholic, a true
alcoholic or even a recovered alcoholic. I'm just an ordinary everyday
alcoholic with a willingness to get on with life. If that entails suffering
the slings and arrows of the 'expert' alcoholics that know all the answers,
I could very well be the 'man'.

Now don't be going and sweating the really easy stuff, like suggestions,
interpretations and opinions, and personal reviews of our paths to joy and
freedom. Else you'll get yourself caught up in having to lecture to a
country bumpkin like me, who will readily admit - in print and in public -
that he doesn't know it all.
P S, look up a few words for yourself ! 'rhetorical' 'literal'
'metaphorical', I'm sure you'll find references to them in your 'saved'
items.

:-)
Cheers

[Robert McGregor]

"Tommy" <Tommyschleprechaun@anyway.com> wrote in message
news:bns1n7$14mmb9$1@ID-49277.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Robert McGregor"> Did they teach you that at Schizophrenics Anonymous?
> > http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_79.htm
> > "Although these reparations take innumerable forms, there are some
general
> > principles which we find guiding. Reminding ourselves that we have
decided
> > to go to any lengths to find a spiritual experience, we ask that we be
> given
> > strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the
personal
> > consequences may be. We may lose our position or reputation or face
jail,
> > but we are willing. We have to be. We must not shrink at anything."
>
> > Ah, off course! The chemical solution!
> >
> >
> > Bob;-)
>
> Well for your erudition Bob, I'm not sure if I'm a real alcoholic, a true
> alcoholic or even a recovered alcoholic. I'm just an ordinary everyday
> alcoholic with a willingness to get on with life. If that entails
suffering
> the slings and arrows of the 'expert' alcoholics that know all the
answers,
> I could very well be the 'man'.

You may have succeeded in passing yerself off as humble, had you tried it
before you flapped yer mouth.

>
> Now don't be going and sweating the really easy stuff, like suggestions,
> interpretations and opinions, and personal reviews of our paths to joy and
> freedom. Else you'll get yourself caught up in having to lecture to a
> country bumpkin like me, who will readily admit - in print and in public -
> that he doesn't know it all.
> P S, look up a few words for yourself ! 'rhetorical' 'literal'
> 'metaphorical', I'm sure you'll find references to them in your 'saved'
> items.
>
> :-)
> Cheers
>
>

You can keep yer cap, it fits you to a tee

Yourself posted the "interpretations," Tommy. Seems all you have left to
defend your bullshit is sidetracking, and blarney.

Bob

[Tom G.]

"Tommy" wrote in message:
>
> "Blue Moon" > On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:00:17 -0000, "Tommy"
> > <Tommyschleprechaun@anyway.com> wrote:
> >
> > Also, do I have any expectations regarding the outcome?
> >
> > Getting to understand expectations is perhaps part of why Step 8 is
> > where it is. I used to drink on things not turning out as I thought
> > they should.
>
> > I perceive 2 distinct parts to Step 8:
> >
> > 1. Made a list of all those we had harmed.
> > 2. Became willing to make amends to them all.
>
> Providing that to do so won't injure them or others - see there's
> practically an opt out clause in most writings or understandings of the
> steps (IMO).
> Injuring 'others' is to include yourself, and that takes in your
> expectations, or what if you got a refusal/rebuttal. Nothing like
rejection
> to sharpen up a nice big burning desire to 'get ones own back'.
> 'Became willing' is another opt out, or delaying mechanism to give time to
> get the full benefit of understanding more the why of doing the step than
> the actual doing of it.
> Plenty of time. I'll get flamed for promoting this attitude and
pinion -
> but far too often, encouragement is given to newly sober members to do the
> steps/practice the programme, clean house, when if actual fact we don't
have
> the wherewithal to buy the cleaning materials even.


Gawd knows I hate to miss an opportunity to flame you,
but I happen to agree with this... I don't think the steps have
"opt outs", but they are written in such a way that they can
be accepted by damn near anyone. The religious steps come
to mind... How many times have you seen a newcomer come
in, start workin' steps to a faretheewell and wind up drunk before
you know it...?? Sames true with those that come in and claim
to have "found Gawd"... Bastiids wind up drunk almost without
fail... In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
I've wanted to strangle those sons-of-bitches that claim they did
a step a week until they got 'em finished...

Tom


\\\|///
\\ - - //
( @ @ )
---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
--------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

[Tommy]

Robert McGregor wrote:
> "Tommy" >
> You can keep yer cap, it fits you to a tee
>
> Yourself posted the "interpretations," Tommy. Seems all you have left to
> defend your bullshit is sidetracking, and blarney.
>
> Bob

Ohh in that case I'm sorry so Bob,
I didn't know that posting interpretations was reserved to the chosen ones.
Neither was I aware I was defending anything, just my opinions man.
Cheers
Tommy
--
When looking for faults, use a mirror not a telescope.

[Robert McGregor]

"Tommy" <Tommyschleprechaun@anyway.com> wrote in message
news:bns450$14k9qj$1@ID-49277.news.uni-berlin.de...
> When looking for faults, use a mirror not a telescope.

Ok, don't tell me, show me.

Bob

[Tommy]

Robert McGregor wrote:
> "Tommy" >> When looking for faults, use a mirror not a telescope.
>
> Ok, don't tell me, show me.
>
> Bob

Swallowing your pride seldom leads to indigestion
:-)
Cheers
Tommy

[Mikey]

>
> Swallowing your pride seldom leads to indigestion
> :-)
> Cheers
> Tommy

Swallowing semen seldom leads to Anemia.

[Virtualoso]

In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, Tom G.
<thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote:

> In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??

What's to "wait" for?

[Tom G.]

"Virtualoso" wrote in message:
> In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, Tom G.
> <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote:
>
> > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
>
> What's to "wait" for?


Why not take it as you can deal with it...?? I didn't notice
a timetable in the Big Book anywhere... You always stand
the chance of scarin' the sot back to his/her bottle... As the
sayin' goes, "Easy does it, but do it"... Don't say when...

\\\|///
\\ - - //
( @ @ )
---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
--------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

[Moonraker]

"Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
news:%hjob.14861$V8.5492361@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.ne t...
>
> >
> > Swallowing your pride seldom leads to indigestion
> > :-)
> > Cheers
> > Tommy
>
> Swallowing semen seldom leads to Anemia.

I bet Mikey's red cell count is astronomical.





>
>

[Mikey]

> > >
> > > Swallowing your pride seldom leads to indigestion
> > > :-)
> > > Cheers
> > > Tommy
> >
> > Swallowing semen seldom leads to Anemia.
>
> I bet Mikey's red cell count is astronomical.

Jeez, now that was a well thought out, original and FUNNY comeback! A tip of
the hat for that one.

--Mikey--

[Virtualoso]

In article <G1kob.132736$k74.72714@lakeread05>, Tom G.
<thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote:

> "Virtualoso" wrote in message:
> > In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, Tom G.
> > <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
> >
> > What's to "wait" for?
>
>
> Why not take it as you can deal with it...?? I didn't notice
> a timetable in the Big Book anywhere...

Check the chapters How It Works and Into Action. How can one know what
they "can deal with" if they don't deal with it?

> You always stand
> the chance of scarin' the sot back to his/her bottle...

Who's scaring whom? The AA program is unabashedly daunting. Heck, just
read those steps up on the wall of countless AA meetings. If that much
don't "scare" them off, then going through with it will? Ha ha. What
"else" is there to be there for? Besides, if anyone wants to "scare"
off, then that's up to them.

> As the
> sayin' goes, "Easy does it, but do it"... Don't say when...

Maybe after a coupla' more years of ruinous drinking, then. You know,
once they "get ready." LOL

[Shawster]

"Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
news:G1kob.132736$k74.72714@lakeread05...
> "Virtualoso" wrote in message:
> > In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, Tom G.
> > <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
> >
> > What's to "wait" for?
>
>
> Why not take it as you can deal with it...?? I didn't notice
> a timetable in the Big Book anywhere... You always stand
> the chance of scarin' the sot back to his/her bottle... As the
> sayin' goes, "Easy does it, but do it"... Don't say when...

problem is you might scare them sober. you just never know. It's up to
their HP to do the job.

I'm in the footwork business. Results are a different department.

And why do you want to stangle?



>
> \\\|///
> \\ - - //
> ( @ @ )
> ---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
> Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
> --------------Oooo-------------
> oooO ( )
> ( ) ) /
> \ ( (_/
> \_)
>
>
>

[rosie read and post]

>
> > "Virtualoso" wrote in message:
> > > In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, > > >

> > > > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
> > >

> >
> >
> > Why not take it as you can deal with it...?? I didn't notice
> > a timetable in the Big Book anywhere...
>


i agree!
i really don't notice ANY benefit to "rushing" someone through the
steps.................
i was NEVER rushed by my sponsor, to "meet a deadline", but rather was
encouraged to go slowly, and do them to the best of my ability.
it worked for me, just fine!

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dClob.79713$%C5.50604@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> >
> > > "Virtualoso" wrote in message:
> > > > In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, > > >
>
> > > > > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
> > > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Why not take it as you can deal with it...?? I didn't notice
> > > a timetable in the Big Book anywhere...
> >
>
>
> i agree!
> i really don't notice ANY benefit to "rushing" someone through the
> steps.................
> i was NEVER rushed by my sponsor, to "meet a deadline", but rather was
> encouraged to go slowly, and do them to the best of my ability.
> it worked for me, just fine!
>
>
>

Hahahahaha according to what you told us earlier, seems you did not notice
ANY benefit in *your* version of the steps at all, until you took your step
two, "Came to believe that drugs could restore us to sanity," and started
popping your poopers.

Bob

[Dylin]

Robert McGregor wrote:
<snipped>
> Hahahahaha according to what you told us earlier, seems you did not notice
> ANY benefit in *your* version of the steps at all, until you took your step
> two, "Came to believe that drugs could restore us to sanity," and started
> popping your poopers.
>
> Bob

I don't understand why anyone would deliberately act like a mean
spirited harpy, because someone else is taking an antidepressant. Most
certainly antidepressants, including the newer SRRI's, aren't a cure-all
for everyone, but for some people they mean the difference between
life/barely existing/death.

If it wasn't for an SRRI, my best friend would have killed himself a few
short years ago. He had been in therapy, struggling to overcome his
depression. His progression was nil. He had to be hospitalized and was
on 24 hour watch, because he was so suicidal.

Finally after much trial and error, the psychiatrists found an SRRI that
helped him. It didn't take long for my friend to be more like his old
pleasant self again. He went back to being active in AA, the community
and life in general. This went on for several years. Unfortunately, one
of the side effects of that SRRI can be incredible weight gain. John
went from slim and trim to extremely overweight, but the black
depression did not return. John worked his farm and did a lot of manual
labour, but the weight gain continued.

John was very concerned about all the excess weight. After discussions
with his psychiatrists, his gp, his family and friends, he decided to
stop the SRRI and try using many therapy sessions and a support group
instead. The two goals being to get his weight down, while keeping the
depression at bay. The psychiatrist tapered him off the med. John
continued with extra therapy, his 12 step work, and all the other good
things he does.

Three months after stopping the SRRI, he was admitted to the psych ward,
back on 24 hour suicide watch. He was in such bad shape that he actually
asked for and received electro therapy treatments. They were really hard
on him and he lost part of his life long memories and for several months
he had difficulty with his short term memory as well. It did help some
with the suicidal thoughts, but the black was still there. He stayed in
the hospital for another month and worked daily with the psychiatric
staff. In the end, the psychiatrists told him that he was not improving
as they had hoped. He went home and tried to get back to his work and
his family, but the very serious depression wouldn't budge. The only
thing modern medicine could offer to bring him back from the abyss was
one little tablet that just happens to work for him.

There was much rejoicing amongst his family and friends when he went
back on the SRRI and rejoined the world of the functional. He is a
lovely man and seeing him smile again is a wonderful thing. His weight
has stopped increasing, but he is still very overweight. He may end up
having physical difficulties arise from the excess weight, but that's
better than dying from a self inflicted bullet to the head.

I'd much rather he takes his one tablet every morning and sticks around
to nag me. I don't want to go to a preventable funeral and bury my best
friend.
--
Dylin

[Robert McGregor]

"Dylin" <dylin@rock.com> wrote in message news:3FA1FCBA.90EE8355@rock.com...
> Robert McGregor wrote:
> <snipped>
> > Hahahahaha according to what you told us earlier, seems you did not
notice
> > ANY benefit in *your* version of the steps at all, until you took your
step
> > two, "Came to believe that drugs could restore us to sanity," and
started
> > popping your poopers.
> >
> > Bob
>
> I don't understand why anyone would deliberately act like a mean
> spirited harpy, because someone else is taking an antidepressant.

If you want to think I'm acting like a mean spirited harpy because poopski
is taking anti depressants, enjoy your don't understanding.

Bob

[Virtualoso]

In article <3FA1FCBA.90EE8355@rock.com>, Dylin <dylin@rock.com> wrote:

> ... Most
> certainly antidepressants, including the newer SRRI's, aren't a cure-all
> for everyone, but for some people they mean the difference between
> life/barely existing/death.

Having the wisdom to know the difference between who is "some people"
and who is not, is likely the tricky part. And just what might save a
life, or not -- before the fact, either way.

"Case studies" of anecdotal tales about individuals, both
heart-wrenching and tragic, seem in no short supply. And since
available in the array of versions -- supportive, alarming,
questionable, etc. -- it's unclear what the value is.

Now that we have a story responding to disdain toward drug dependency
by dramatizing support for drug dependency, shall we match that with a
tale of tragic drug demise in the misguided hope for that kind of soma
salvation?

Some people.

[Gail]

"Dylin" <dylin@rock.com> wrote in message news:3FA1FCBA.90EE8355@rock.com...
> Robert McGregor wrote:
> <snipped>
> > Hahahahaha according to what you told us earlier, seems you did not
notice
> > ANY benefit in *your* version of the steps at all, until you took your
step
> > two, "Came to believe that drugs could restore us to sanity," and
started
> > popping your poopers.
> >
> > Bob
>
> I don't understand why anyone would deliberately act like a mean
> spirited harpy, because someone else is taking an antidepressant. Most
> certainly antidepressants, including the newer SRRI's, aren't a cure-all
> for everyone, but for some people they mean the difference between
> life/barely existing/death.
>
> If it wasn't for an SRRI, my best friend would have killed himself a few
> short years ago. He had been in therapy, struggling to overcome his
> depression. His progression was nil. He had to be hospitalized and was
> on 24 hour watch, because he was so suicidal.
>
> Finally after much trial and error, the psychiatrists found an SRRI that
> helped him. It didn't take long for my friend to be more like his old
> pleasant self again. He went back to being active in AA, the community
> and life in general. This went on for several years. Unfortunately, one
> of the side effects of that SRRI can be incredible weight gain. John
> went from slim and trim to extremely overweight, but the black
> depression did not return. John worked his farm and did a lot of manual
> labour, but the weight gain continued.
>
> John was very concerned about all the excess weight. After discussions
> with his psychiatrists, his gp, his family and friends, he decided to
> stop the SRRI and try using many therapy sessions and a support group
> instead. The two goals being to get his weight down, while keeping the
> depression at bay. The psychiatrist tapered him off the med. John
> continued with extra therapy, his 12 step work, and all the other good
> things he does.
>
> Three months after stopping the SRRI, he was admitted to the psych ward,
> back on 24 hour suicide watch. He was in such bad shape that he actually
> asked for and received electro therapy treatments. They were really hard
> on him and he lost part of his life long memories and for several months
> he had difficulty with his short term memory as well. It did help some
> with the suicidal thoughts, but the black was still there. He stayed in
> the hospital for another month and worked daily with the psychiatric
> staff. In the end, the psychiatrists told him that he was not improving
> as they had hoped. He went home and tried to get back to his work and
> his family, but the very serious depression wouldn't budge. The only
> thing modern medicine could offer to bring him back from the abyss was
> one little tablet that just happens to work for him.
>
> There was much rejoicing amongst his family and friends when he went
> back on the SRRI and rejoined the world of the functional. He is a
> lovely man and seeing him smile again is a wonderful thing. His weight
> has stopped increasing, but he is still very overweight. He may end up
> having physical difficulties arise from the excess weight, but that's
> better than dying from a self inflicted bullet to the head.
>
> I'd much rather he takes his one tablet every morning and sticks around
> to nag me. I don't want to go to a preventable funeral and bury my best
> friend.
> --
> Dylin

You friend is fortunate to have a friend like you.
Best to you both,
Gail

[Dylin]

Virtualoso wrote:
>

> Some people.

Nice side-step.

[Virtualoso]

In article <3FA20BF2.B5F1C7D6@rock.com>, Dylin <dylin@rock.com> wrote:

> Virtualoso wrote:
> >
>
> > Some people.
>
> Nice side-step.

What's to "side step"?

[JB]

"Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message news:301020031806207836%virtualoso@dot.com...
> In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, Tom G.
> <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote:
>
> > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
>
> What's to "wait" for?

In order for me to give each Step a chance of working for me, I have to:

1. develop an understanding of what it means;

2. accept it at gut level;

3. give up ways of thinking and behaviour that are familiar to me.

I am coming to believe that these things happen to me when they're meant to happen which,
incidentally, is rarely as quickly as I would like them to :^)).

Yours

JB

[Robert McGregor]

"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bnta56$k47$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
news:301020031806207836%virtualoso@dot.com...
> > In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, Tom G.
> > <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
> >
> > What's to "wait" for?
>
> In order for me to give each Step a chance of working for me, I have to:
>
> 1. develop an understanding of what it means;
>
> 2. accept it at gut level;
>
> 3. give up ways of thinking and behaviour that are familiar to me.
>
> I am coming to believe that these things happen to me when they're meant
to happen which,
> incidentally, is rarely as quickly as I would like them to :^)).
>
> Yours
>
> JB
>
>

I found the steps worked for me by,

One day at a time

Being as honest and fearless as I could be from the very start.
Abandoning rigorous attachment to my old ideas..
Taking the steps in sequence, (not afraid to go back in sequence either) as
best I could on the day.

A lot of understanding of what those steps meant for me is still coming,
years later.

Bob

[Robert McGregor]

oops, ..... I did not read that thoroughly before clicking send.
Would have been more accurate had I written honest, fearless, and
*thorough,* from the very start.

Bob

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bntbsj$15551s$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bnta56$k47$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > "Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
> news:301020031806207836%virtualoso@dot.com...
> > > In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, Tom G.
> > > <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
> > >
> > > What's to "wait" for?
> >
> > In order for me to give each Step a chance of working for me, I have
to:
> >
> > 1. develop an understanding of what it means;
> >
> > 2. accept it at gut level;
> >
> > 3. give up ways of thinking and behaviour that are familiar to me.
> >
> > I am coming to believe that these things happen to me when they're meant
> to happen which,
> > incidentally, is rarely as quickly as I would like them to :^)).
> >
> > Yours
> >
> > JB
> >
> >
>
> I found the steps worked for me by,
>
> One day at a time
>
> Being as honest and fearless as I could be from the very start.
> Abandoning rigorous attachment to my old ideas..
> Taking the steps in sequence, (not afraid to go back in sequence either)
as
> best I could on the day.
>
> A lot of understanding of what those steps meant for me is still coming,
> years later.
>
> Bob
>
>

[JB]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bntbsj$15551s$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...

> I found the steps worked for me by,
>
> One day at a time
>
> Being as honest and fearless as I could be from the very start.
> Abandoning rigorous attachment to my old ideas..
> Taking the steps in sequence, (not afraid to go back in sequence either) as
> best I could on the day.
>
> A lot of understanding of what those steps meant for me is still coming,
> years later.
>
> Bob

Hi,

By working every day on something that is AA-related, I think/hope/ trust (I don't yet know which is
the right word for me to use) that I will gradually become more honest and more fearless, develop my
understanding of AA as a whole, the Twelve Steps, myself and life in general and, also become
happy/accept/able to deal with (again, I don't yet know which is the right word for me to use)
who I am and life as it is. :^))

Best regards

JB

[rosie read and post]

>
> You friend is fortunate to have a friend like you.
> Best to you both,
> Gail
>

i was just thinking the same thing...........................

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

It has bothered me all my life that I do not paint like everybody
else.
.........................~Henri Matisse



"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vq42v5im2ljk0d@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Dylin" <dylin@rock.com> wrote in message
news:3FA1FCBA.90EE8355@rock.com...
> > Robert McGregor wrote:
> > <snipped>
> > > Hahahahaha according to what you told us earlier, seems you did
not
> notice
> > > ANY benefit in *your* version of the steps at all, until you took
your
> step
> > > two, "Came to believe that drugs could restore us to sanity," and
> started
> > > popping your poopers.
> > >
> > > Bob
> >
> > I don't understand why anyone would deliberately act like a mean
> > spirited harpy, because someone else is taking an antidepressant.
Most
> > certainly antidepressants, including the newer SRRI's, aren't a
cure-all
> > for everyone, but for some people they mean the difference between
> > life/barely existing/death.
> >
> > If it wasn't for an SRRI, my best friend would have killed himself a
few
> > short years ago. He had been in therapy, struggling to overcome his
> > depression. His progression was nil. He had to be hospitalized and
was
> > on 24 hour watch, because he was so suicidal.
> >
> > Finally after much trial and error, the psychiatrists found an SRRI
that
> > helped him. It didn't take long for my friend to be more like his
old
> > pleasant self again. He went back to being active in AA, the
community
> > and life in general. This went on for several years. Unfortunately,
one
> > of the side effects of that SRRI can be incredible weight gain.
John
> > went from slim and trim to extremely overweight, but the black
> > depression did not return. John worked his farm and did a lot of
manual
> > labour, but the weight gain continued.
> >
> > John was very concerned about all the excess weight. After
discussions
> > with his psychiatrists, his gp, his family and friends, he decided
to
> > stop the SRRI and try using many therapy sessions and a support
group
> > instead. The two goals being to get his weight down, while keeping
the
> > depression at bay. The psychiatrist tapered him off the med. John
> > continued with extra therapy, his 12 step work, and all the other
good
> > things he does.
> >
> > Three months after stopping the SRRI, he was admitted to the psych
ward,
> > back on 24 hour suicide watch. He was in such bad shape that he
actually
> > asked for and received electro therapy treatments. They were really
hard
> > on him and he lost part of his life long memories and for several
months
> > he had difficulty with his short term memory as well. It did help
some
> > with the suicidal thoughts, but the black was still there. He stayed
in
> > the hospital for another month and worked daily with the psychiatric
> > staff. In the end, the psychiatrists told him that he was not
improving
> > as they had hoped. He went home and tried to get back to his work
and
> > his family, but the very serious depression wouldn't budge. The only
> > thing modern medicine could offer to bring him back from the abyss
was
> > one little tablet that just happens to work for him.
> >
> > There was much rejoicing amongst his family and friends when he went
> > back on the SRRI and rejoined the world of the functional. He is a
> > lovely man and seeing him smile again is a wonderful thing. His
weight
> > has stopped increasing, but he is still very overweight. He may end
up
> > having physical difficulties arise from the excess weight, but
that's
> > better than dying from a self inflicted bullet to the head.
> >
> > I'd much rather he takes his one tablet every morning and sticks
around
> > to nag me. I don't want to go to a preventable funeral and bury my
best
> > friend.
> > --
> > Dylin
>
> You friend is fortunate to have a friend like you.
> Best to you both,
> Gail
>
>

[rosie read and post]

"Dylin" <dylin@rock.com> wrote in message
news:3FA1FCBA.90EE8355@rock.com...
>
> I don't understand why anyone would deliberately act like a mean
> spirited harpy, because someone else is taking an antidepressant.

something to do?





>Most certainly antidepressants, including the newer SRRI's, aren't a
cure-all
> for everyone, but for some people they mean the difference between
> life/barely existing/death.

..................and all to often those folks who ought to use
medication, don't, because they run into tradition breaking idiots who
convince them otherwise.
after a few years in recovery, i am finding less and less of this
predjudice, thank HP!

thanks for speaking up dylin.

rosie

[rosie read and post]

> I don't understand why anyone would deliberately act like a mean
> spirited harpy, because someone else is taking an antidepressant.

just wait until these idiots start in on those who use INHALERS for
their asthma, instead of "the steps".....................
LOL!

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:75tob.90176$pg7.12345@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> "Dylin" <dylin@rock.com> wrote in message
> news:3FA1FCBA.90EE8355@rock.com...
> >
> > I don't understand why anyone would deliberately act like a mean
> > spirited harpy, because someone else is taking an antidepressant.
>
> something to do?
>
Of course, when one REALLY has nothing to do, they can flood Usenet with
30,000 innocuous posts a year, eh Rosie binBlabbin?

[JB]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Wftob.3030$BX.784@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:75tob.90176$pg7.12345@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> >
> > "Dylin" <dylin@rock.com> wrote in message
> > news:3FA1FCBA.90EE8355@rock.com...
> > >
> > > I don't understand why anyone would deliberately act like a mean
> > > spirited harpy, because someone else is taking an antidepressant.
> >
> > something to do?
> >
> Of course, when one REALLY has nothing to do, they can flood Usenet with
> 30,000 innocuous posts a year, eh Rosie binBlabbin?

Hi Moonraker,

I'd like to correct the record and add another statistic. Approximately 38,100 posts since 1999.
Approximately 8,070 since the 1st Jan 2003 :^))

JB

[Moonraker]

"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bntoqu$s5a$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:Wftob.3030$BX.784@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:75tob.90176$pg7.12345@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > "Dylin" <dylin@rock.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3FA1FCBA.90EE8355@rock.com...
> > > >
> > > > I don't understand why anyone would deliberately act like a mean
> > > > spirited harpy, because someone else is taking an antidepressant.
> > >
> > > something to do?
> > >
> > Of course, when one REALLY has nothing to do, they can flood Usenet with
> > 30,000 innocuous posts a year, eh Rosie binBlabbin?
>
> Hi Moonraker,
>
> I'd like to correct the record and add another statistic. Approximately
38,100 posts since 1999.
> Approximately 8,070 since the 1st Jan 2003 :^))
>
> JB
>
>

Geezus, that's a lot of ROTFLMAO's

More than 9,000 posts per year? wonder how many of them had an original
thought?

..

[Shawster]

> > > > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
> > >
> > > What's to "wait" for?
> >
> > In order for me to give each Step a chance of working for me, I have
to:
> >
> > 1. develop an understanding of what it means;
> >
> > 2. accept it at gut level;
> >
> > 3. give up ways of thinking and behaviour that are familiar to me.
> >
> > I am coming to believe that these things happen to me when they're meant
> to happen which,
> > incidentally, is rarely as quickly as I would like them to :^)).
> >
> > Yours
> >
> > JB
> >
> >
>
> I found the steps worked for me by,
>
> One day at a time
>
> Being as honest and fearless as I could be from the very start.
> Abandoning rigorous attachment to my old ideas..
> Taking the steps in sequence, (not afraid to go back in sequence either)
as
> best I could on the day.
>
> A lot of understanding of what those steps meant for me is still coming,
> years later.

Don't forget, there is a difference to working steps, and doing one and
waiting until the start of the next. I have seen quite a few people say the
third step prayer, and then put off the fourth step work, thereby delaying
the rest of the steps.

that's why a good sponsor can give a little nudge where needed, or pull back
on the reigns and help with thoroughness.

Shaw
>
>
>

[JB]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:pStob.3044$BX.2192@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bntoqu$s5a$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:Wftob.3030$BX.784@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> > >
> > > "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:75tob.90176$pg7.12345@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Dylin" <dylin@rock.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:3FA1FCBA.90EE8355@rock.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't understand why anyone would deliberately act like a mean
> > > > > spirited harpy, because someone else is taking an antidepressant.
> > > >
> > > > something to do?
> > > >
> > > Of course, when one REALLY has nothing to do, they can flood Usenet with
> > > 30,000 innocuous posts a year, eh Rosie binBlabbin?
> >
> > Hi Moonraker,
> >
> > I'd like to correct the record and add another statistic. Approximately
> 38,100 posts since 1999.
> > Approximately 8,070 since the 1st Jan 2003 :^))
> >
> > JB
> >
> >
>
> Geezus, that's a lot of ROTFLMAO's
>
> More than 9,000 posts per year? wonder how many of them had an original
> thought?
>
Can't answer that one.

BTW, have you noticed that Rosie has not yet answered my latest simple question:isehyou;vI'm still
waiting for an answer for Rosieto my quesiotnwondering how many mostg .
>
>

[Gail]

?
>
> Hi Moonraker,
>
> I'd like to correct the record and add another statistic. Approximately
38,100 posts since 1999.
> Approximately 8,070 since the 1st Jan 2003 :^))
>
> JB
>
>

Are you jealous?
Appears to me that you are doing a pretty good job of trying to catch up
with her.
I personally, have better things to do than to check and see how many times
you post. I looked at that site when Shaw first post it. Since then, I
realize it is none of my business how many times you or anyone else post or
where you post or what you post.
Oh, one more thing, I use to want to be in the clique, too. I have always
thought that you remind me of me and how I was. Thanks for the memories!
;)

[Virtualoso]

In article <bnta56$k47$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
wrote:

> "Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
> news:301020031806207836%virtualoso@dot.com...
> > In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, Tom G.
> > <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
> >
> > What's to "wait" for?
>
> In order for me to give each Step a chance of working for me, I have to:
>
> 1. develop an understanding of what it means;
>
> 2. accept it at gut level;
>
> 3. give up ways of thinking and behaviour that are familiar to me.
>
> I am coming to believe that these things happen to me when they're meant to
> happen which,
> incidentally, is rarely as quickly as I would like them to :^)).

Interesting notion. None of that sounds like "doing" anything at all.
Is that the Waiting Step?

[Gail]

"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bnta56$k47$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
news:301020031806207836%virtualoso@dot.com...
> > In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, Tom G.
> > <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
> >
> > What's to "wait" for?
>
> In order for me to give each Step a chance of working for me, I have to:
>
> 1. develop an understanding of what it means;
>
> 2. accept it at gut level;
>
> 3. give up ways of thinking and behaviour that are familiar to me.
>
> I am coming to believe that these things happen to me when they're meant
to happen which,
> incidentally, is rarely as quickly as I would like them to :^)).
>
> Yours
>
> JB
>
>

May I suggest that you spend more time on yourself. Wasting time Googling or
checking out how many times one post is irrelevant to my recovery. When I
quit trying analyze, argue or project, the program of AA, along with
counseling, some other treatment programs, and yes, medications at times,
started working for me.
My opinion is like an asshole. Everybody is one. (Sorry, I meant to say HAS
ONE)
Everyone have a nice day or evening.

BOO!!!

[JB]

If you received my previous post - which was only a draft reply - I apologise.

JB

[GraceHague]

[Grace] at [spiritone.com] wrote:

>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:75tob.90176$pg7.12345@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>
>>
>> "Dylin" <dylin@rock.com> wrote in message
>> news:3FA1FCBA.90EE8355@rock.com...
>>>
>>> I don't understand why anyone would deliberately act like a mean
>>> spirited harpy, because someone else is taking an antidepressant.
>>
>> something to do?
>>
> Of course, when one REALLY has nothing to do, they can flood Usenet with
> 30,000 innocuous posts a year, eh Rosie binBlabbin?
>
>
So- do you have a problem or somethin'?

Grace

[Virtualoso]

In article <vq4tk4r6ndvt67@corp.supernews.com>, Gail
<serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

> May I suggest that you spend more time on yourself. ... When I
> quit trying analyze, argue or project, the program of AA, along with
> counseling, some other treatment programs, and yes, medications at times,
> started working for me.

Ah, yes -- spending more time on the self smorgasborg. Very popular
buffet. But, "started working"? Not drinking booze excessively?

[JB]

"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:vq4t28g90hun3d@corp.supernews.com...
>
> ?
> >
> > Hi Moonraker,
> >
> > I'd like to correct the record and add another statistic. Approximately
> 38,100 posts since 1999.
> > Approximately 8,070 since the 1st Jan 2003 :^))
> >
> > JB
> >
> >
>
> Are you jealous?
> Appears to me that you are doing a pretty good job of trying to catch up
> with her.
> I personally, have better things to do than to check and see how many times
> you post. I looked at that site when Shaw first post it. Since then, I
> realize it is none of my business how many times you or anyone else post or
> where you post or what you post.
> Oh, one more thing, I use to want to be in the clique, too. I have always
> thought that you remind me of me and how I was. Thanks for the memories!
> ;)
>
FWIW, I do not consider myself to be in any clique. I say what I say because I want to. End of
story :^))

JB

BTW, As you take time to comment on some of the things I say, I think it likely that you do not
always consider what I say to be none of your business* :^)).

* Business - proper or rightful concern or responsibility (one of the definitions in Collins
English Dictionary)

[Virtualoso]

In article <bntt7i$v8n$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB
<JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

> BTW, have you noticed that Rosie has not yet answered my latest simple
> question:isehyou;vI'm still
> waiting for an answer for Rosieto my quesiotnwondering how many mostg .

No wonder.

[Robert McGregor]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:S1uob.84574$Go5.1524811@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
>
>
> > > > > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
> > > >
> > > > What's to "wait" for?
> > >
> > > In order for me to give each Step a chance of working for me, I have
> to:
> > >
> > > 1. develop an understanding of what it means;
> > >
> > > 2. accept it at gut level;
> > >
> > > 3. give up ways of thinking and behaviour that are familiar to me.
> > >
> > > I am coming to believe that these things happen to me when they're
meant
> > to happen which,
> > > incidentally, is rarely as quickly as I would like them to :^)).
> > >
> > > Yours
> > >
> > > JB
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I found the steps worked for me by,
> >
> > One day at a time
> >
> > Being as honest and fearless as I could be from the very start.
> > Abandoning rigorous attachment to my old ideas..
> > Taking the steps in sequence, (not afraid to go back in sequence either)
> as
> > best I could on the day.
> >
> > A lot of understanding of what those steps meant for me is still coming,
> > years later.
>
> Don't forget, there is a difference to working steps, and doing one and
> waiting until the start of the next. I have seen quite a few people say
the
> third step prayer, and then put off the fourth step work, thereby
delaying
> the rest of the steps.
>
> that's why a good sponsor can give a little nudge where needed, or pull
back
> on the reigns and help with thoroughness.
>
> Shaw

Given my post was about what worked for me, the only thing I initially
forgot to add was reference to being thorough. As for sponsors, mine was
unfamiliar with the steps, for which I'm thankful. I earned my own recovery,
with my own diligence.

In regard to folk mouthing that (to me) absurd third step prayer, I would be
astounded if any of them continued on to take a fearless and thorough step
four. My experience/observation is that trouble/delay doing step four is
*inevitably* a direct result of a lazy or omitted step three.

Bob

[Blue Moon]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:09:54 GMT, "rosie read and post"
<readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> I don't understand why anyone would deliberately act like a mean
>> spirited harpy, because someone else is taking an antidepressant.
>
>just wait until these idiots start in on those who use INHALERS for
>their asthma, instead of "the steps".....................

Certainly if I was using an asthma inhaler as a solution to stuff like
self-centred ego, that would be a problem. And it would probably work
about as well.

this really has nothing to do with ADs. Some people I have a lot of
time for are either currently on ADs. or have been on them at some
time during sobriety. I apply the principle "take what you want and
leave the rest". To don't have to have another person's depression or
drug in order to gain benefit from them.

Like alcohol, other drugs are not the real problem but they can mask
the problem. That's not to say they necessarily do, but they
certainly can.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:17:25 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

>"Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message news:301020031806207836%virtualoso@dot.com...
>> In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, Tom G.
>> <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote:
>>
>> > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
>>
>> What's to "wait" for?
>
>In order for me to give each Step a chance of working for me, I have to:
>
>1. develop an understanding of what it means;
>
>2. accept it at gut level;
>
>3. give up ways of thinking and behaviour that are familiar to me.

This is probably how it was also for me with Steps 1, 3 and 4. Step 2
I wasted little time over. Step 3 I kind of took piecemeal - followed
a little suggestion, waited for the sky to fall down, followed
another, etc.

With the remainder of the Steps I didn't have to spend too much time
on the analysis. I struggled a little with Step 11, until I realised
that most people are really working the 11th when they think they're
working the 3rd. Also, 10 and 11 can be too-easily forgotten for me
when day-to-day stuff gets in the way.

>I am coming to believe that these things happen to me when they're meant to happen which,
>incidentally, is rarely as quickly as I would like them to :^)).

That applies to almost everything in life, hence "keep it in the day".
When my head is in either yesterday or tomorrow, I can find myself
mentally/emotionally crippled. Maybe that's alcohol damage, who
knows? But life remains largely unmanageable. It's kind of cool to
develop teflon shoulder-pads and become more responsible for actions
and less so for outcomes.

--
Blue Moon

[rosie read and post]

> Oh, one more thing, I use to want to be in the clique, too. I have
always
> thought that you remind me of me and how I was. Thanks for the
memories!
> ;)
>
>


.................and then you grew up...........................
:)

[Blue Moon]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:49:40 -0600, "Gail"
<serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

>May I suggest that you spend more time on yourself. Wasting time Googling or
>checking out how many times one post is irrelevant to my recovery. When I
>quit trying analyze, argue or project, the program of AA, along with
>counseling, some other treatment programs, and yes, medications at times,
>started working for me.

"Practical experience shows that nothing will so much insure immunity
from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics. It works when
other activities fail." pg 89.

Sometimes I'm working Step 12 just by "being there". Other times I
can be more proactive. Sure, it's important not to forget what I need
to do for/by myself. But sometimes what I need to do IS get out of
myself by focusing on someone else. "When" and "where", and when to
let go, is a learning process that some never seem to learn.

--
Blue Moon

[rosie read and post]

> I personally, have better things to do than to check and see how many
times
> you post.

or try to figure out who he/she really is.......................

[JB]

"Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message news:311020030642511347%virtualoso@dot.com...
> In article <bnta56$k47$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
> wrote:
>
<snip

JB wrote:

>>In order for me to give each Step a chance of working for me, I have to:
> >
> > 1. develop an understanding of what it means;
> >
> > 2. accept it at gut level;
> >
> > 3. give up ways of thinking and behaviour that are familiar to me.
> >
> > which,
> > incidentally, is rarely as quickly as I would like them to :^)).
>
> Interesting notion. None of that sounds like "doing" anything at all.
> Is that the Waiting Step?

Absolutely not. In the past few weeks, I have worked Steps 1 - 3. I am now working Step 4.
Although I have developed an understanding of what each of these Steps mean, I believe that my
recovery from alcoholism will be nothing more than a short-lived one unless I can also accept in my
heart what it says in each Step. This *is* happening. What I meant by: "I am coming to believe
that these things happen to me when they're meant to happen" is that *I* don't pick the date on
which to accept a Step at gut level or to change an old way of thinking or behaving.. I know these
things have happened when , for example, I've found myself dealing with a situation in a way that I
would not normally do and thinking either while dealing with it or afterwards, that this way is
better for me. At this point I'm thinking that I may not be explaining myself very well.

BTW, some of you will know that I find working the Steps to be an emotionally painful experience and
that at times I don't want to carry on doing them. But whenever I realise and appreciate the
little changes in me that have come about since starting to work them, I decide its worth carrying
on with them.

Yours

JB

[rosie read and post]

"Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
news:311020030712167219%virtualoso@dot.com...
> In article <bntt7i$v8n$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB
> <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:
>
> > BTW, have you noticed that Rosie has not yet answered my latest
simple
> > question:isehyou;vI'm still
> > waiting for an answer for Rosieto my quesiotnwondering how many
mostg .
>
> No wonder.



ROTFLMAO!

[rosie read and post]

"Dylin" <dylin@rock.com> wrote in message
news:3FA2949D.B07BA777@rock.com...
> rosie read and post wrote:
> >
> > > I don't understand why anyone would deliberately act like a mean
> > > spirited harpy, because someone else is taking an antidepressant.
> >
> > just wait until these idiots start in on those who use INHALERS for
> > their asthma, instead of "the steps".....................
> > LOL!
>
> Every sober "real alcoholic" knows that the steps (properly worked)
get
> rid of all kinds of depression. That's why Bill W. is such a shining
> example of how properly working the steps can permanently cure
> depression. He only took to his bed because he felt like resting a
lot.
>
> Some of those asthma inhalers contain potent sobriety threatening mood
> altering drugs. In a clinical study of Ventolin, 1.5% of the test
> subjects developed depression.
>
> Obviously, it's better to error on the side of "sobriety safety" and
> stay away from things like asthma medications. If a person uses
Ventolin
> for their asthma, they run the risk of being in that 1.5%. Then they
> might need to take an SRRI to counteract the Ventolin induced
> depression.
>
> Might as well just let the asthma kill them and avoid those pesky
> sobriety threatening complications.

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, you just lost your eligibility to the
"good old boys" club!

LOL!

[Dylin]

rosie read and post wrote:
>
> > I don't understand why anyone would deliberately act like a mean
> > spirited harpy, because someone else is taking an antidepressant.
>
> just wait until these idiots start in on those who use INHALERS for
> their asthma, instead of "the steps".....................
> LOL!

Every sober "real alcoholic" knows that the steps (properly worked) get
rid of all kinds of depression. That's why Bill W. is such a shining
example of how properly working the steps can permanently cure
depression. He only took to his bed because he felt like resting a lot.

Some of those asthma inhalers contain potent sobriety threatening mood
altering drugs. In a clinical study of Ventolin, 1.5% of the test
subjects developed depression.

Obviously, it's better to error on the side of "sobriety safety" and
stay away from things like asthma medications. If a person uses Ventolin
for their asthma, they run the risk of being in that 1.5%. Then they
might need to take an SRRI to counteract the Ventolin induced
depression.

Might as well just let the asthma kill them and avoid those pesky
sobriety threatening complications.

[Dylin]

rosie read and post wrote:
>
> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, you just lost your eligibility to the
> "good old boys" club!

I never was eligible for any good old boys club:-)
--
MizDylin

[Kai]

Dylin wrote:

> rosie read and post wrote:
>
>>ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, you just lost your eligibility to the
>>"good old boys" club!
>
>
> I never was eligible for any good old boys club:-)

Huh? Come on, even I'm a member so I think we can stretch the
admission rules to fit you too.

GoodOleKai

[Tom G.]

"Virtualoso" wrote in message:
> > "Virtualoso" wrote in message:
> > > In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, Tom G.
> > > <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
> > >
> > > What's to "wait" for?
> >
> >
> > Why not take it as you can deal with it...?? I didn't notice
> > a timetable in the Big Book anywhere...
>
> Check the chapters How It Works and Into Action. How can one know what
> they "can deal with" if they don't deal with it?


I don't need to... There is no given time... How can one know
the he/she has dealt with all they need to deal with...?? I know
I've been reasonable successful with workin' the program because
I'm goin' on eight years sober... As Mark Twain said, "Never
argue with success"...

> > You always stand
> > the chance of scarin' the sot back to his/her bottle...
>
> Who's scaring whom? The AA program is unabashedly daunting.

If you choose to make it so...

> Heck, just
> read those steps up on the wall of countless AA meetings.

I kinda like the fonts most of 'em are printed in... Nothin'
scary that I can see... There might be if I chose to make it so...

> If that much
> don't "scare" them off, then going through with it will? Ha ha.

Lookin' at Mike Tyson ain't that scary, fightin' him
might be...


>What
> "else" is there to be there for?

Well, some go to pick up babes... Others are just lonely or
perhaps frightened at facin' the world sober and need
encouragement... I know people who've been long sober and
never bothered with the steps at all... Am I supposed to believe
that they're "doin' it wrong" because they don't toe my mark...??

> Besides, if anyone wants to "scare"
> off, then that's up to them.

True enough... I've never been scared much by simply words,
your experience may be different...

> > As the
> > sayin' goes, "Easy does it, but do it"... Don't say when...
>
> Maybe after a coupla' more years of ruinous drinking, then. You know,
> once they "get ready." LOL

I think you just answered yer own question... A drunk'll sober
up when he gets damn good and ready to. It takes more for some than
it does others...

\\\|///
\\ - - //
( @ @ )
---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
--------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

[Tom G.]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:23lob.83843$Go5.1468844@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
>
> "Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
> news:G1kob.132736$k74.72714@lakeread05...
> > "Virtualoso" wrote in message:
> > > In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, Tom G.
> > > <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
> > >
> > > What's to "wait" for?
> >
> >
> > Why not take it as you can deal with it...?? I didn't notice
> > a timetable in the Big Book anywhere... You always stand
> > the chance of scarin' the sot back to his/her bottle... As the
> > sayin' goes, "Easy does it, but do it"... Don't say when...
>
> problem is you might scare them sober. you just never know. It's up to
> their HP to do the job.

I think it's the drunk who has to do the job, not some
HP... I've never once heard from on high the instructions,
"Thomas, go forth and swill beer"... Why should this Gawd get
stuck with soberin' my sorry ass up...?? Naw, Shawster, I went
to all them meetin's and did the work myself...

> I'm in the footwork business. Results are a different department.
>
> And why do you want to stangle?


"Stangle"... What's that...? I don't think I've ever stangled
in my life...


Tom

\\\|///
\\ - - //
( @ @ )
---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
--------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

[Blue Moon]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:02:16 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

>BTW, some of you will know that I find working the Steps to be an emotionally painful experience and
>that at times I don't want to carry on doing them.

Sounds quite normal to me.

That's precisely why:

1. the guys in bars who still need recovery are not flocking to AA to
work the Steps.

2. one cannot simply "think" oneself recovered.

3. Step 4 is written, and its very nature involves emotional stuff
that's been avoided all these years.

4. Steps 5 thru 11 exist.

--
Blue Moon

[GaryE]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:01:55 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>

>>
>>
>
>I found the steps worked for me by,

(snip)

Well Bob, what I like about recalling 'working' the Steps is that I
just did them as I understood the language. Interestingly, I didn't
'study" the Steps. I didn't get hung up on the meaning of words
because it seemed like I knew the meaning of the words. None were
really arcane or obscure. The guy who was my sponsor didn't explain
anything about what the interpretation was, he just said read them and
do them and that he would listen to my experience in doing them.

It was just like that. I did them in less than 90 days because I
accepted the idea that the sooner I did them, the better my chances
were of staying sober.

Now, lo, these many years later, I can't be an expert or an authority
because I didn't have any 12 Step defining moments. That may be too
bad, I guess. I like being a big shot, so maybe I should have figured
that my particular experience was some sort of defining experience for
a whole bunch of other people. Then I could preach if I wanted to.
I could find flaws with other people's experience because mine would
be the right one. I always miss out out when it comes to the really
good stuff.


We go back a long ways Robert. I still have your picture in my
personal gallery of AA ne'er do wells. . You've always been a tough
hard head but a fair fighter and a good debater. Why don't you leave
Rosie alone. It doesn't fit you well when you rant about medications
and then personalize it like that. Go for the big fish. Me. Well,
not me anymore. I haven't taken anti depressants in over a year now.
Nor any placebo's. So far, so good. But there are the
pharmaceutical giants that rule the world. Pound those bastards.

Best,
GaryE

[Jim Blair]

Dylin wrote
That's why Bill W. is such a shining example of how properly working the
steps can permanently cure depression. He only took to his bed because he
felt like resting a lot.

If you would take the time to read Steps 5,6 and 7 of the 12 X 12, you will
come to understand that Bill W. did treat his depression with the Steps.
Jim

[Virtualoso]

In article <bnu1sj$it0$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
wrote:

> "Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
> news:311020030642511347%virtualoso@dot.com...
> > In article <bnta56$k47$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> <snip
>
> JB wrote:
>
> >>In order for me to give each Step a chance of working for me, I have to:
> > >
> > > 1. develop an understanding of what it means;
> > >
> > > 2. accept it at gut level;
> > >
> > > 3. give up ways of thinking and behaviour that are familiar to me.
> > >
> > > which,
> > > incidentally, is rarely as quickly as I would like them to :^)).
> >
> > Interesting notion. None of that sounds like "doing" anything at all.
> > Is that the Waiting Step?
>
> Absolutely not. In the past few weeks, I have worked Steps 1 - 3. I am now
> working Step 4.
> Although I have developed an understanding of what each of these Steps mean,
> I believe that my
> recovery from alcoholism will be nothing more than a short-lived one unless I
> can also accept in my
> heart what it says in each Step. This *is* happening. What I meant by: "I
> am coming to believe
> that these things happen to me when they're meant to happen" is that *I*
> don't pick the date on
> which to accept a Step at gut level or to change an old way of thinking or
> behaving.. I know these
> things have happened when , for example, I've found myself dealing with a
> situation in a way that I
> would not normally do and thinking either while dealing with it or
> afterwards, that this way is
> better for me. At this point I'm thinking that I may not be explaining
> myself very well.
>
> BTW, some of you will know that I find working the Steps to be an emotionally
> painful experience and
> that at times I don't want to carry on doing them. But whenever I realise
> and appreciate the
> little changes in me that have come about since starting to work them, I decide its worth carrying
> on with them.

It probably helps if one's former ways were more painful and
convincingly futile.

[Robert McGregor]

"GaryE" <garyexxxnospam@nadaswbell.net> wrote in message
news:q006qvc0a81n7k24oqaacqb0cio5ah02p1@4ax.com...
> I like being a big shot,


>Why don't you leave
> Rosie alone. It doesn't fit you well when you rant about medications
> and then personalize it like that.

Oh that's easy Gary, after decades of needing to be a big shot, I don't need
that shit any more, so don't give a fuck about what you, or anyone else,
believe fits me well.

If you looked before you leaped, you might even notice that if I discuss
medications, it's mostly merely either pertaining to that incorrigible liar
Rosie's incessant bullshit, or her contempt of my own experience. Perhaps
you'll see, Gary E, I don't need to be a footstool either.

Bob.

[Blue Moon]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:28:18 -0800, Virtualoso <virtualoso@dot.com>
wrote:

>In article <bnu1sj$it0$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
>wrote:

>> BTW, some of you will know that I find working the Steps to be an emotionally
>> painful experience and that at times I don't want to carry on doing them. But
>> whenever I realise and appreciate the little changes in me that have come
>> about since starting to work them, I decide its worth carrying on with them.
>
>It probably helps if one's former ways were more painful and
>convincingly futile.

Given that alcohol masked pain for such a long time, and the awakening
to certain emotions in early sobriety that had long since been lost or
forgotten, it could be difficult to equate the types of pain
experienced.

However, if alcohol and/or former ways clearly work, I see no reason
to work the Steps. Surely that's why it's necessary for an alcoholic
to "hit bottom", and even then the willingness can only come from
within.

--
Blue Moon

[Virtualoso]

In article <3FA2949D.B07BA777@rock.com>, Dylin <dylin@rock.com> wrote:

> rosie read and post wrote:
> >
> > > I don't understand why anyone would deliberately act like a mean
> > > spirited harpy, because someone else is taking an antidepressant.
> >
> > just wait until these idiots start in on those who use INHALERS for
> > their asthma, instead of "the steps".....................
> > LOL!
>
> Every sober "real alcoholic" knows that the steps (properly worked) get
> rid of all kinds of depression. That's why Bill W. is such a shining
> example of how properly working the steps can permanently cure
> depression. He only took to his bed because he felt like resting a lot.

Hmmm. "Cure depression". Novel notion. Brain drugs don't even "cure"
anything in particular regarded as "depression," for that matter. Once
just keeps taking drugs instead of being cured. But then, rumor has it
that nothing can "cure" what's often regarded as "alcoholism" either.
Not that there aren't any number of drugs that can have one "feeling
better" any way. You know, so long as you buy them from doctors.

The entire premise for "anti depressant" brain drugs pivots on the
imagined idea about "chemical balances" in the brain being the thing.
The main version being the "SSRI" ones: Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors".
Just about all the others hinge on the same "imbalance" notion
regarding some other specific chemicals, although it hasn't and can't
yet be proved that these drugs actually "rebalance" any such thing --
even if that were the problem.

But consider what's being used to "treat" -- if not cure -- just what,
aside from the moving personal tales of "feeling better" taking various
drugs:

"There is still no valid biological test for depression"
- Dr. C. Chan

"A serotonin deficiency for depression has not been found.* ...* Still,
patients are often given the impression that a definitive serotonin
deficiency in depression is firmly established.* ...* The result is an
undue inflation of the drug market..."
- Joseph Glenmullen, M.D., clinical instructor in psychiatry at Harvard
Medical School

A panel of experts assembled by the U.S. Congress Office of Technology
Assessment reported that "Prominent hypotheses concerning depression
have focused on altered function of the group of neurotransmitters
called monoamines (i.e., norepinephrine, epinephrine, serotonin,
dopamine), particularly norepinephrine (NE) and serotonin.*...
studies of the NE [norepinephrine] autoreceptor in depression have
found no specific evidence of an abnormality to date.* Currently, no
clear evidence links abnormal serotonin receptor activity in the brain
to depression.*... the data currently available do not provide
consistent evidence either for altered neurotransmitter levels or for
disruption of normal receptor activity" ( The Biology of Mental
Disorders , U.S. Gov't Printing Office )

Muller-Oerlinghausen B, Berghofer A.
Department of Psychiatry, Freie Universitat Berlin, Germany.

Several antidepressants including the selective serotonin reuptake
inhibitors (SSRIs) may increase suicidal behavior ...
Clinical trials could not confirm a superiority of SSRIs over
tricyclics in reducing the number of suicide attempts... A
suicide-preventing effect has not been demonstrated conclusively for
antidepressants.

[based on excerpts distributed via Harvard School of Public Health]

The idea of suicidal action occurring early in the treatment of
depression is not new. Detre and Jarecki described the "rollback
phenomenon" in which suicidal ideation may reemerge during
pharmacological treatment of severe depression.

The available data suggest that there may be an increased risk of
suicide in depressed patients in treatment. However, the risk does not
appear to vary substantially by type of antidepressant drug therapy.

The serotonin transporter: a primary
target for antidepressant drugs
by
Schloss P, Williams DC
Biochemistry Department,
University of Dublin, Trinity College, Ireland.

ABSTRACT
.... Decreased serotoninergic neurotransmission has been proposed to
play a key role in the aetiology of depression. ... The mode of action
of these antidepressant drugs on their direct target, the serotonin
transport protein, and possible regulatory mechanisms with respect to
long-term alleviation of depression, although having been investigated
both neurobiologically and clinically over the last years, are not yet
understood.

---------------------------------
In a society of 250 million we have over 70 million adult drug
prescriptions for anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds a year, rising
by 30% every 3 or 4 years. In another 10 years almost half the adult
population will be on some kind of psych med.

[Virtualoso]

In article <q006qvc0a81n7k24oqaacqb0cio5ah02p1@4ax.com>, GaryE
<garyexxxnospam@nadaswbell.net> wrote:

> I haven't taken... any placebo's. So far, so good.

Uh oh. I wondered when this angle might finally come up. What is/n't a
"placebo"?

[Virtualoso]

In article <IVDob.19280$RG1.996020@wagner.videotron.net>, Jim Blair
<jblair@videotron.ca> wrote:

> Dylin wrote
> That's why Bill W. is such a shining example of how properly working the
> steps can permanently cure depression. He only took to his bed because he
> felt like resting a lot.
>
> If you would take the time to read Steps 5,6 and 7 of the 12 X 12, you will
> come to understand that Bill W. did treat his depression with the Steps.

It's usually curious to me that folks that like to point at BW's
depression, and the severeity or protracted nature of it, generally
also stop short of the fact that he eventually was free of it. And
without any "anti depressant" drugs, either.

[GaryE]

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:47:46 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:


>
>If you looked before you leaped, you might even notice that if I discuss
>medications, it's mostly merely either pertaining to that incorrigible liar
>Rosie's incessant bullshit, or her contempt of my own experience. Perhaps
>you'll see, Gary E, I don't need to be a footstool either.
>
Well, I guess I missed the contempt of your experience form Rosie.
So, Rosie the Riveter, lay off Babe. Bob don't need your shit.

Garmediator

[rosie read and post]

gotcha gar....................
:)

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

looking for a costume?
http://www.costumeideazone.com/uniq33.asp



"GaryE" <garyexxxnospam@nadaswbell.net> wrote in message
news:02a6qvo3ahnj1h1fg89le03unhi4m2081b@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:47:46 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
> <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >If you looked before you leaped, you might even notice that if I
discuss
> >medications, it's mostly merely either pertaining to that
incorrigible liar
> >Rosie's incessant bullshit, or her contempt of my own experience.
Perhaps
> >you'll see, Gary E, I don't need to be a footstool either.
> >
> Well, I guess I missed the contempt of your experience form Rosie.
> So, Rosie the Riveter, lay off Babe. Bob don't need your shit.
>
> Garmediator

[rosie read and post]

> If you would take the time to read Steps 5,6 and 7 of the 12 X 12, you
will
> come to understand that Bill W. did treat his depression with the
Steps.
> Jim
>
>


yes, he did use the steps, among other things!
(including LSD)

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:PXFob.94545$pg7.43162@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > If you would take the time to read Steps 5,6 and 7 of the 12 X 12, you
> will
> > come to understand that Bill W. did treat his depression with the
> Steps.
> > Jim
> >
> >
>
>
> yes, he did use the steps, among other things!
> (including LSD)
>
>

Jeez poopski, don't let reality get in your way.

The LSD adventure (August 1956) was *after* Bill's depression finally lifted
(1955) ... Pass it On

Bob

[Shawster]

"Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
news:PECob.134654$k74.41223@lakeread05...
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:23lob.83843$Go5.1468844@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
> >
> > "Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
> > news:G1kob.132736$k74.72714@lakeread05...
> > > "Virtualoso" wrote in message:
> > > > In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, Tom G.
> > > > <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
> > > >
> > > > What's to "wait" for?
> > >
> > >
> > > Why not take it as you can deal with it...?? I didn't notice
> > > a timetable in the Big Book anywhere... You always stand
> > > the chance of scarin' the sot back to his/her bottle... As the
> > > sayin' goes, "Easy does it, but do it"... Don't say when...
> >
> > problem is you might scare them sober. you just never know. It's up to
> > their HP to do the job.
>
> I think it's the drunk who has to do the job, not some
> HP... I've never once heard from on high the instructions,
> "Thomas, go forth and swill beer"... Why should this Gawd get
> stuck with soberin' my sorry ass up...?? Naw, Shawster, I went
> to all them meetin's and did the work myself...
>
> > I'm in the footwork business. Results are a different department.
> >
> > And why do you want to stangle?
>
>
> "Stangle"... What's that...? I don't think I've ever stangled
> in my life...

well it's kind of like strangling but different.

you did all the work yourself huh?



>
>
> Tom
>
> \\\|///
> \\ - - //
> ( @ @ )
> ---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
> Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
> --------------Oooo-------------
> oooO ( )
> ( ) ) /
> \ ( (_/
> \_)
>
>
>

[Moonraker]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ZJGob.86415$Go5.1604545@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
>
> Naw, Shawster, I went
> > to all them meetin's and did the work myself...


> you did all the work yourself huh?
>

You mean you couldn't tell?

[Jim Blair]

rosie read and post
> yes, he did use the steps, among other things!

The uninformed, such as yerself cause a lot of damage to AA. Why don't you
read "Pass It On" and move from the ranks of the uninformed to the informed.

He used the Steps and later on after his depression had lifted he used
niacitic acid. That's all.
Jim

[Kai]

Jim Blair wrote:

> Dylin wrote
> That's why Bill W. is such a shining example of how properly working the
> steps can permanently cure depression. He only took to his bed because he
> felt like resting a lot.
>
> If you would take the time to read Steps 5,6 and 7 of the 12 X 12, you will
> come to understand that Bill W. did treat his depression with the Steps.

If you would take the time to gather some actual knowledge about Bill
W., you might come to understand he also treated himself with LSD.
Which one do you recommend, oh wise one?

Kai

[Kai]

Jim Blair wrote:

> rosie read and post
>
>>yes, he did use the steps, among other things!
>
>
> The uninformed, such as yerself cause a lot of damage to AA. Why don't you
> read "Pass It On" and move from the ranks of the uninformed to the informed.
>
> He used the Steps and later on after his depression had lifted he used
> niacitic acid. That's all.

Now let me get this straight, Jim. Bill W. used the steps to treat his
depression and then later he used LSD. How does one know for certain
one's depression is lifted enough to start using LSD? When did you start?

Kai

[JB]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:YHvob.91980$pg7.27621@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > I personally, have better things to do than to check and see how many
> times
> > you post.
>
> or try to figure out who he/she really is.......................

Which you're not :^)) LOL

JB

[Shawster]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:nUGob.6685$BX.5298@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:ZJGob.86415$Go5.1604545@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
> >
> > Naw, Shawster, I went
> > > to all them meetin's and did the work myself...
>
>
> > you did all the work yourself huh?
> >
>
> You mean you couldn't tell?

sarcastic text should show as highlighted blue. It requires the new
microsoft patch.

The quality of craftmanship in self made men is usually quite low.
>
>
>

[Tom G.]

"Kai" wrote in message:
> Jim Blair wrote:
>
> > Dylin wrote
> > That's why Bill W. is such a shining example of how properly working
the
> > steps can permanently cure depression. He only took to his bed because
he
> > felt like resting a lot.
> >
> > If you would take the time to read Steps 5,6 and 7 of the 12 X 12, you
will
> > come to understand that Bill W. did treat his depression with the Steps.
>
> If you would take the time to gather some actual knowledge about Bill
> W., you might come to understand he also treated himself with LSD.
> Which one do you recommend, oh wise one?
>
> Kai


It's you that needs to gather the actual knowledge... Bill's
use of LSD had absolutely nothing to do with his depression.
He was testing it as an aide in helping alcoholics. Also, at that
point in time, there was no stigma attached to LSD. This was
before the hippy nutcases like Timothy Leary found it and used
it to weird out... Maybe the pertinent history books haven't
been translated to Finnish yet... Or you just haven't bothered to
look...


\\\|///
\\ - - //
( @ @ )
---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
--------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

[Tom G.]

"Shawster" wrote in message:
> > > And why do you want to stangle?
> >
> >
> > "Stangle"... What's that...? I don't think I've ever stangled
> > in my life...
>
> well it's kind of like strangling but different.

Oh... Naw, never felt the need...

> you did all the work yourself huh?


Pretty much...

\\\|///
\\ - - //
( @ @ )
---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
--------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

[Tom G.]

"Moonraker" wrote in message: >
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:ZJGob.86415$Go5.1604545@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
> >
> > Naw, Shawster, I went
> > > to all them meetin's and did the work myself...
>
>
> > you did all the work yourself huh?
> >
>
> You mean you couldn't tell?


And you're somehow better...?? At least I seem to have
found the serenity to not let a pretentious twit like Rosie
drive me apeshit like you... You've been able to accept
people, places and things as they are rather than as you'd
have them be...?? I don't think so, Moonraker... Come back
when you're able to accept Rosie as she is rather than as what
you think she should be...

\\\|///
\\ - - //
( @ @ )
---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
--------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

[Shawster]

"Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
news:XBOob.135651$k74.100933@lakeread05...
> "Shawster" wrote in message:
> > > > And why do you want to stangle?
> > >
> > >
> > > "Stangle"... What's that...? I don't think I've ever stangled
> > > in my life...
> >
> > well it's kind of like strangling but different.
>
> Oh... Naw, never felt the need...

Just like Rosie, you don't even remember the crap that falls off your
fingers.

" Gawd knows I hate to miss an opportunity to flame you,
but I happen to agree with this... I don't think the steps have
"opt outs", but they are written in such a way that they can
be accepted by damn near anyone. The religious steps come
to mind... How many times have you seen a newcomer come
in, start workin' steps to a faretheewell and wind up drunk before
you know it...?? Sames true with those that come in and claim
to have "found Gawd"... Bastiids wind up drunk almost without
fail... In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
I've wanted to strangle those sons-of-bitches that claim they did
a step a week until they got 'em finished..."

See that last line?? so besides my little typo, it seems you DO want to
strangle.

>
> > you did all the work yourself huh?
>
>
> Pretty much...

keep it up then.


>
> \\\|///
> \\ - - //
> ( @ @ )
> ---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
> Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
> --------------Oooo-------------
> oooO ( )
> ( ) ) /
> \ ( (_/
> \_)
>
>
>

[JB]

"Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message news:RGOob.135655$k74.86235@lakeread05...
> "Moonraker" wrote in message: >
> > "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:ZJGob.86415$Go5.1604545@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
<snip>

> And you're somehow better...?? At least I seem to have
> found the serenity to not let a pretentious twit like Rosie
> drive me apeshit like you... You've been able to accept
> people, places and things as they are rather than as you'd
> have them be...?? I don't think so, Moonraker... Come back
> when you're able to accept Rosie as she is rather than as what
> you think she should be...
>
> \\\|///
> \\ - - //
> ( @ @ )
> ---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
> Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
> --------------Oooo-------------
> oooO ( )
> ( ) ) /
> \ ( (_/
> \_)

Which you always can because you've never once said anything here that could be considered criticism
of Rosie :^))

JB

"From: Tom G. (thegoz@dipshit.com)
Subject: Re: STEP TEN
Newsgroups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism, alt.recovery.aa
Date: 2003-10-28 15:12:55 PST

<snip>

Oh hell, Rosie must have me killfiled...:O) I haven't
been called a malcontent for weeks now... So, Rosie's
version of an amends is ignorin' the person she possibly
offended...?? Acceptin' no blame for herself, just ignoring
the situation... I don't think it's supposed to be done that
way, what the hell's the point...??"


Yours

JB

[Jim Blair]

Kai wrote
Now let me get this straight, Jim. Bill W. used the steps to treat his
depression and then later he used LSD. How does one know for certain one's
depression is lifted enough to start using LSD? When did you start?

Bill did not use LSD. He partcipated in a series of experiments run by the
University of Saskatchewan. The chemical was LSD 24.

The experiments were in no way connected to his depression. Read "Pass It
On."
Jim

[Tom G.]

"Shawster" wrote in message: >
> "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:nUGob.6685$BX.5298@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:ZJGob.86415$Go5.1604545@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
> > >
> > > Naw, Shawster, I went
> > > > to all them meetin's and did the work myself...
> >
> >
> > > you did all the work yourself huh?
> > >
> >
> > You mean you couldn't tell?
>
> sarcastic text should show as highlighted blue. It requires the new
> microsoft patch.
>
> The quality of craftmanship in self made men is usually quite low.


Let me tell you what I told him, Shawster... At least Rosie's
not livin' in my head rent-free, as she is your's... You might want
to check yer own "quality craftmanship"...

\\\|///
\\ - - //
( @ @ )
---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
--------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

[Kai]

Jim Blair wrote:

> Kai wrote
> Now let me get this straight, Jim. Bill W. used the steps to treat his
> depression and then later he used LSD. How does one know for certain one's
> depression is lifted enough to start using LSD? When did you start?
>
> Bill did not use LSD. He partcipated in a series of experiments run by the
> University of Saskatchewan. The chemical was LSD 24.
>
> The experiments were in no way connected to his depression. Read "Pass It
> On."

Thanks for the info, I just might read it one of these days.

Kai

[Kai]

Tom G. wrote:
>
>
> It's you that needs to gather the actual knowledge... Bill's
> use of LSD had absolutely nothing to do with his depression.
> He was testing it as an aide in helping alcoholics. Also, at that
> point in time, there was no stigma attached to LSD. This was
> before the hippy nutcases like Timothy Leary found it and used
> it to weird out... Maybe the pertinent history books haven't
> been translated to Finnish yet... Or you just haven't bothered to
> look...

I stand corrected. 'Pass it on' has been translated into Finnish, but
I've read it only cursory.

Kai

[Tom G.]

"Shawster" wrote in message:
> > > > "Stangle"... What's that...? I don't think I've ever stangled
> > > > in my life...
> > >
> > > well it's kind of like strangling but different.
> >
> > Oh... Naw, never felt the need...
>
> Just like Rosie, you don't even remember the crap that falls off your
> fingers.

> I've wanted to strangle those sons-of-bitches that claim they did
> a step a week until they got 'em finished..."
>
> See that last line?? so besides my little typo, it seems you DO want to
> strangle.

Damn, what a nitpicker... I'm beginnin' to feel kinda
sorry for Rosie now... Havin' to put up with shit like that...
She's right, you do need to find something of a life, other than
this...

> > > you did all the work yourself huh?
> >
> >
> > Pretty much...
>
> keep it up then.

I will...

\\\|///
\\ - - //
( @ @ )
---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
--------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

[stuart]

"Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
news:rsPob.135666$k74.49308@lakeread05...
> "Shawster" wrote in message:
> > > > > "Stangle"... What's that...? I don't think I've ever stangled
> > > > > in my life...
> > > >
> > > > well it's kind of like strangling but different.
> > >
> > > Oh... Naw, never felt the need...
> >
> > Just like Rosie, you don't even remember the crap that falls off your
> > fingers.
>
> > I've wanted to strangle those sons-of-bitches that claim they did
> > a step a week until they got 'em finished..."
> >
> > See that last line?? so besides my little typo, it seems you DO want to
> > strangle.
>
> Damn, what a nitpicker... I'm beginnin' to feel kinda
> sorry for Rosie now... Havin' to put up with shit like that...
> She's right, you do need to find something of a life, other than

You don't nitpick over typos, and accidental pushes on the "send" button,
hillbilly. Some of us haven't got the sophisticated computer stuff you have
ya' know....



> this...
>
> > > > you did all the work yourself huh?
> > >
> > >
> > > Pretty much...
> >
> > keep it up then.
>
> I will...
>
> \\\|///
> \\ - - //
> ( @ @ )
> ---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
> Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
> --------------Oooo-------------
> oooO ( )
> ( ) ) /
> \ ( (_/
> \_)
>
>

[rosie read and post]

> He used the Steps and later on after his depression had lifted he used
> niacitic acid. That's all.
> Jim
>
>

could you be referring to:
VITAMIN B3?
(niacin, niacinamide, nicotinic acid)

[rosie read and post]

How does one know for certain
> one's depression is lifted enough to start using LSD? When did you
start?
>
> Kai
>

ROTFLMAO!

[Moonraker]

"Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
news:RGOob.135655$k74.86235@lakeread05...
> And you're somehow better...?? At least I seem to have
> found the serenity to not let a pretentious twit like Rosie
> drive me apeshit like you... You've been able to accept
> people, places and things as they are rather than as you'd
> have them be...?? I don't think so, Moonraker... Come back
> when you're able to accept Rosie as she is rather than as what
> you think she should be...

There's a big difference between accepting things and liking them, or even
believing them.

Ever heard this? "Things you hear in this meeting are the opinion of the
speaker and not necessarily that of AA, unless read from AA approved
literature?"

I accept that Rosie binBlabbin is a pretentious twit, and that she is
overbearing, obnoxious, condescending, arrogant, smug, and a few dozen more
adjectives. Such acceptance does not obligate me to be silent when she
posts her smarm and bullshit. I'm under no delusion that she'll ever be
what I think she ought to be....GONE. ;>)

[rosie read and post]

"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:LbQob.8368$un.1276@bignews6.bellsouth.net...


> I accept that Rosie is a ...............
condescending....................


there is that word again!.......................................GET UP
moonie, stand tall!....................you are only beneath me, if you
think you are!
((((((((((((((((((((moonie))))))))))))))))))))))))

[GraceHague]

[Grace] at [spiritone.com] wrote:

>
> Kai wrote
> Now let me get this straight, Jim. Bill W. used the steps to treat his
> depression and then later he used LSD. How does one know for certain one's
> depression is lifted enough to start using LSD? When did you start?
>
> Bill did not use LSD. He partcipated in a series of experiments run by the
> University of Saskatchewan. The chemical was LSD 24.
>
> The experiments were in no way connected to his depression. Read "Pass It
> On."
> Jim
>
>
Jim, I hate to have to burst your bubble, but that was LSD. It was not a
street drug at the time, and it was in an experimental setting conducted by
researchers, but, yes, it was truly LSD.

Grace

[JB]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:_FQob.4968$ns.1364@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:bkQob.91889$832.51996@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:LbQob.8368$un.1276@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

> > there is that word again!.......................................GET UP
> > moonie, stand tall!....................you are only beneath me, if you
> > think you are!
> > ((((((((((((((((((((moonie))))))))))))))))))))))))
> >
> >
>
> Aw, shit. Now I gotta go take another shower. Will you stop with the hugs,
> already?
>
Maybe when pigs fly :^))

JB

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bkQob.91889$832.51996@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:LbQob.8368$un.1276@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
>
> > I accept that Rosie is a ...............
> condescending....................
>
>
> there is that word again!.......................................GET UP
> moonie, stand tall!....................you are only beneath me, if you
> think you are!
> ((((((((((((((((((((moonie))))))))))))))))))))))))
>
>

Aw, shit. Now I gotta go take another shower. Will you stop with the hugs,
already?

[Kai]

rosie read and post wrote:

> How does one know for certain
>
>>one's depression is lifted enough to start using LSD? When did you
>
> start?
>
>>Kai
>>
>
>
> ROTFLMAO!

Seems I need to be more careful before hittin' send from now on.

Kai

[Moonraker]

"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bo0lli$sgj$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> Maybe when pigs fly :^))
>
> JB
>
>

I just had this image of a flock of winged porcines in a large "V"
migrating toward Baghdad. Talk about terror. ;>)

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bkQob.91889$832.51996@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:LbQob.8368$un.1276@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
>
> > I accept that Rosie is a ...............
> condescending....................
>
>
> there is that word again!.......................................GET UP
> moonie, stand tall!....................you are only beneath me, if you
> think you are!
> ((((((((((((((((((((moonie))))))))))))))))))))))))
>
>
And you don't see the condescension in THIS post?

Your arrogance is exceeded only by your ignorance.

[JB]

"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:oaRob.9903$BX.9485@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bo0lli$sgj$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > >
> > Maybe when pigs fly :^))
> >
> > JB
> >
> >
>
> I just had this image of a flock of winged porcines in a large "V"
> migrating toward Baghdad. Talk about terror. ;>)
>

OMG, imagine the bombs :^)) LOL

JB

[JB]

"Kai" <soberon@nospamo.luukku.com> wrote in message news:bo0ng1$pjm$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> JB wrote:
> >>
> >
> > Maybe when pigs fly :^))
>
> Given sufficient thrust and proper trajectory, pigs fly just fine.
>
> Ballistic Kai

Not the distances I was thinking of :^))

JB

[Kai]

JB wrote:
>>
>
> Maybe when pigs fly :^))

Given sufficient thrust and proper trajectory, pigs fly just fine.

Ballistic Kai

[Moonraker]

"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bo0o3b$635$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Kai" <soberon@nospamo.luukku.com> wrote in message
news:bo0ng1$pjm$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> > JB wrote:
> > >>
> > >
> > > Maybe when pigs fly :^))
> >
> > Given sufficient thrust and proper trajectory, pigs fly just fine.
> >
> > Ballistic Kai
>
> Not the distances I was thinking of :^))
>
> JB
>
>
Can you safely predict the splatter factor upon re-entry/landing?

[rosie read and post]

> Aw, shit. Now I gotta go take another shower. Will you stop with the
hugs,
> already?
>
>

:)

nope, not until you learn to love yourself, as i love you!

[rosie read and post]

> Given sufficient thrust and proper trajectory, pigs fly just fine.
>
> Ballistic Kai
>


;)

[rosie read and post]

again, moonie...................there can't be condescension in my posts
to you, as i don't feel that i am superior to you.....................

how you feel about yourself is another matter all together!

maybe you just need more of these................
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((moonie))))))))) ))))))))))))))))))))))
))))))))



rosie








"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6dRob.9929$BX.3806@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>



> >
> >

> >
> >And you don't see the condescension in THIS post?

[JB]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:W1Sob.92085$832.6604@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Aw, shit. Now I gotta go take another shower. Will you stop with the
> hugs,
> > already?
> >
> >
>
> :)
>
> nope, not until you learn to love yourself, as i love you!

Who needs the sick bag ? :^))

JB

[JB]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:t5Sob.92087$832.30183@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> again, moonie...................there can't be condescension in my posts
> to you, as i don't feel that i am superior to you.....................

I *know* I am :^))

ROFLMAO

JB
..

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:t5Sob.92087$832.30183@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> again, moonie...................there can't be condescension in my posts
> to you, as i don't feel that i am superior to you.....................
"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:WlPob.91866$832.49950@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> we did not ask to be placed above you...................why don't you
> all get up out of the gutter, clean up your act, and join us, as we
> trudge the road of happy destiny?
> you will ALWAYS be welcome!

[Jim Blair]

GraceHague wrote
Jim, I hate to have to burst your bubble, but that was LSD. It was not a
street drug at the time, and it was in an experimental setting conducted by
researchers, but, yes, it was truly LSD.

LSD 24 was the original chemistry and as a result the people who used it did
not excperience severe ups or downs.

I have 3 hours of tapes from 1960 with Bill W. and Dr. Hoffer along with
other researchers talking about the experiments. I got them along with over
200 pages of documents from the U of Sask. by using the access to
information act.
Jim

[Jim Blair]

rosie read
could you be referring to: VITAMIN B3?

Bill was introduced to niacitic acid, as it was called by Dr. Hoffer who had
used it on alcoholics with significant results in the loss of craving.

The product was not made nor marketed in the U.S. at that time (1956) so
Bill W. imported it from Germany in drums.

At one time Bill had a little company complete with a catalogue and he had
over 3,000 customers buying niacitic acid for various problems.

Persons with depression, arthritis and other joint or muscle ailments noted
great improvements using mega doses of from 5 to 7 grams per day.

I don't know if the present B3 is the same product as niacitic acid. I have
a lot of Bill's correspondance with Hoffer on this product and Bill noted
significant differences in results from supplier to supplier.
Jim

[Jim Blair]

Moonraker wrote
Ever heard this? "Things you hear in this meeting are the opinion of the
speaker and not necessarily that of AA, unless read from AA approved
literature?"

Yes, and it's bullshit. I can speak from the podium for an hour and never
once utter an opinion.
My experience is my experience and it is not an opinion.
Jim

[Moonraker]

"Jim Blair" <jblair@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:ZcXob.67261$zH1.1616866@weber.videotron.net.. .
>
> Moonraker wrote
> Ever heard this? "Things you hear in this meeting are the opinion of the
> speaker and not necessarily that of AA, unless read from AA approved
> literature?"
>
> Yes, and it's bullshit. I can speak from the podium for an hour and never
> once utter an opinion.
> My experience is my experience and it is not an opinion.
> Jim
>
>

Any family connection between yourself and the former Governor of Missouri
with the same name?

[F.H.]

Jim Blair wrote:
>
> Moonraker wrote
> Ever heard this? "Things you hear in this meeting are the opinion of the
> speaker and not necessarily that of AA, unless read from AA approved
> literature?"
>
> Yes, and it's bullshit. I can speak from the podium for an hour and never
> once utter an opinion.
> My experience is my experience and it is not an opinion.
> Jim

Who's job is it to wake everyone up at the end?

[Jim Blair]

F.H. wrote
Who's job is it to wake everyone up at the end?

Nobody falls asleep as I've come to understand that I'm there to comfort the
afflicted and to inflict the comfortable:-))
Jim

[Jim Blair]

Moonraker wrote
> Any family connection between yourself and the former Governor of Missouri
with the same name?

I have no living relatives in the US and as a matter of fact, I don't have
any dead ones there either.
Jim

[Shawster]

"Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
news:WZOob.135659$k74.19497@lakeread05...
> "Shawster" wrote in message: >
> > "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:nUGob.6685$BX.5298@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> > >
> > > "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:ZJGob.86415$Go5.1604545@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
> > > >
> > > > Naw, Shawster, I went
> > > > > to all them meetin's and did the work myself...
> > >
> > >
> > > > you did all the work yourself huh?
> > > >
> > >
> > > You mean you couldn't tell?
> >
> > sarcastic text should show as highlighted blue. It requires the new
> > microsoft patch.
> >
> > The quality of craftmanship in self made men is usually quite low.
>
>
> Let me tell you what I told him, Shawster... At least Rosie's
> not livin' in my head rent-free, as she is your's... You might want
> to check yer own "quality craftmanship"...

rosie who??

I don't see any rosie in this thread. Keep up that good work


>
> \\\|///
> \\ - - //
> ( @ @ )
> ---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
> Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
> --------------Oooo-------------
> oooO ( )
> ( ) ) /
> \ ( (_/
> \_)
>
>
>

[Shawster]

"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6dRob.9929$BX.3806@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:bkQob.91889$832.51996@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:LbQob.8368$un.1276@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> >
> >
> > > I accept that Rosie is a ...............
> > condescending....................
> >
> >
> > there is that word again!.......................................GET UP
> > moonie, stand tall!....................you are only beneath me, if you
> > think you are!
> > ((((((((((((((((((((moonie))))))))))))))))))))))))
> >
> >
> And you don't see the condescension in THIS post?
>
> Your arrogance is exceeded only by your ignorance.


or just plain insanity.
>
>
>

[Shawster]

"F.H." <disconnectedxxxxx@chimpthlinkxxx.net> wrote in message
news:3FA45003.97FEBAB6@chimpthlinkxxx.net...
> Jim Blair wrote:
> >
> > Moonraker wrote
> > Ever heard this? "Things you hear in this meeting are the opinion of
the
> > speaker and not necessarily that of AA, unless read from AA approved
> > literature?"
> >
> > Yes, and it's bullshit. I can speak from the podium for an hour and
never
> > once utter an opinion.
> > My experience is my experience and it is not an opinion.
> > Jim
>
> Who's job is it to wake everyone up at the end?

it's a service postion, that is available.

sorry, coffee and ashtrays are taken.


>

[Shawster]

"Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
news:rsPob.135666$k74.49308@lakeread05...
> "Shawster" wrote in message:
> > > > > "Stangle"... What's that...? I don't think I've ever stangled
> > > > > in my life...
> > > >
> > > > well it's kind of like strangling but different.
> > >
> > > Oh... Naw, never felt the need...
> >
> > Just like Rosie, you don't even remember the crap that falls off your
> > fingers.
>
> > I've wanted to strangle those sons-of-bitches that claim they did
> > a step a week until they got 'em finished..."
> >
> > See that last line?? so besides my little typo, it seems you DO want to
> > strangle.
>
> Damn, what a nitpicker... I'm beginnin' to feel kinda
> sorry for Rosie now... Havin' to put up with shit like that...
> She's right, you do need to find something of a life, other than
> this...

what pointing out bullshit?

I consider it service work.

Typical rosie sockpuppet, get caught in a lie, in the same thread no less,
and turn it on me like it is my fault. wanna give me a hug and do the rosie
tenth step??

Love your email by the way. next time you want to point out my typo's look
at the content of your own posts, dipshit.






>
> > > > you did all the work yourself huh?
> > >
> > >
> > > Pretty much...
> >
> > keep it up then.
>
> I will...

it shows.


>
> \\\|///
> \\ - - //
> ( @ @ )
> ---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
> Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
> --------------Oooo-------------
> oooO ( )
> ( ) ) /
> \ ( (_/
> \_)
>
>
>

[rosie read and post]

shaw hon.......................
this is the "rent free space" tom was talking about!

do you know some of your posts are abusive?
do you know that this type of abuse IS considered to be a form of
violence?

do you know a good counselor you could talk to about this violence?
:)

it seems you missed the #1 rule .................."to be healthier than
your clients"!


--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things
turn
out.
........................john wooden






"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:STZob.90518$Go5.1717156@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
>
> "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:6dRob.9929$BX.3806@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in
message
> > news:bkQob.91889$832.51996@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > > news:LbQob.8368$un.1276@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> > >
> > >
> > > > I accept that Rosie is a ...............
> > > condescending....................
> > >
> > >
> > > there is that word
again!.......................................GET UP
> > > moonie, stand tall!....................you are only beneath me, if
you
> > > think you are!
> > > ((((((((((((((((((((moonie))))))))))))))))))))))))
> > >
> > >
> > And you don't see the condescension in THIS post?
> >
> > Your arrogance is exceeded only by your ignorance.
>
>
> or just plain insanity.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Virtualoso]

In article <KXZob.89682$%C5.88940@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, rosie read
and post <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote:

> do you know some of your posts are abusive?
> do you know that this type of abuse IS considered to be a form of
> violence?
>
> do you know a good counselor you could talk to about this violence?

"violence"? LOL

Yes, "talking to counselors" is such a palliative, isn't it? Heck,
that's what you sell, too, right?

[Virtualoso]

In article <KXZob.89682$%C5.88940@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, rosie read
and post <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote:

> it seems you missed the #1 rule .................."to be healthier than
> your clients"!

Not that that's a condescending rule, of course. Nor a confirmable one,
for that matter.

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:KXZob.89682$%C5.88940@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> shaw hon.......................
> this is the "rent free space" tom was talking about!

You mean your advice? He is paying about what it's worth. Nothing.

>
> do you know some of your posts are abusive?

Sez who?

> do you know that this type of abuse IS considered to be a form of
> violence?

Horse hockey. Now THERE's some real off-the-wall thinking.

>
> do you know a good counselor you could talk to about this violence?

Living in Tampa, he's been able to spend a bit of time with Warren Sapp.
It's amazing the change in Shawster.
>
> it seems you missed the #1 rule .................."to be healthier than
> your clients"!
>

Assuming you practice what you preach, you'll be holding your group
sessions in a phone booth, eh?


>
> --
> read and post daily, it works!
> rosie
>
> things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things
> turn
> out.
> .......................john wooden
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:STZob.90518$Go5.1717156@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
> >
> > "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:6dRob.9929$BX.3806@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> > >
> > > "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in
> message
> > > news:bkQob.91889$832.51996@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:LbQob.8368$un.1276@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I accept that Rosie is a ...............
> > > > condescending....................
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > there is that word
> again!.......................................GET UP
> > > > moonie, stand tall!....................you are only beneath me, if
> you
> > > > think you are!
> > > > ((((((((((((((((((((moonie))))))))))))))))))))))))
> > > >
> > > >
> > > And you don't see the condescension in THIS post?
> > >
> > > Your arrogance is exceeded only by your ignorance.
> >
> >
> > or just plain insanity.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Kai]

Shawster wrote:

> "Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
> news:rsPob.135666$k74.49308@lakeread05...

>> Damn, what a nitpicker... I'm beginnin' to feel kinda
>>sorry for Rosie now... Havin' to put up with shit like that...
>>She's right, you do need to find something of a life, other than
>>this...
>
>
> what pointing out bullshit?
>
> I consider it service work.
>
> Typical rosie sockpuppet, get caught in a lie, in the same thread no less,
> and turn it on me like it is my fault. wanna give me a hug and do the rosie
> tenth step??

So you spotted Tom is Rosie's sockpuppet? Good perception, most people
do spot it, but it usually takes longer.

Kai

[Shawster]

"Kai" <soberon@nospamo.luukku.com> wrote in message
news:bo2cqv$pos$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> Shawster wrote:
>
> > "Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
> > news:rsPob.135666$k74.49308@lakeread05...
>
> >> Damn, what a nitpicker... I'm beginnin' to feel kinda
> >>sorry for Rosie now... Havin' to put up with shit like that...
> >>She's right, you do need to find something of a life, other than
> >>this...
> >
> >
> > what pointing out bullshit?
> >
> > I consider it service work.
> >
> > Typical rosie sockpuppet, get caught in a lie, in the same thread no
less,
> > and turn it on me like it is my fault. wanna give me a hug and do the
rosie
> > tenth step??
>
> So you spotted Tom is Rosie's sockpuppet? Good perception, most people
> do spot it, but it usually takes longer.

it's easy to do when you see the fist up the backside.

I don't like to say it out loud though, the responses sound like first day
at day care, with all crying, screaming, and whining.


>

[Tommy]

"Moonraker" > > read and post daily, it works!
> > rosie
> >
> > things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things
> > turn
> > out.
> > .......................john wooden

The best way to get over a man
Is to get under a new one.

One drink of an evening,
two at the very most
three she's under the table
four she's under the host.

Tommy

[rosie read and post]

> So you spotted Tom is Rosie's sockpuppet? Good perception, most people
> do spot it, but it usually takes longer.
>
> Kai
>

tom?
ROTFLMAO!
(ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, wait until my little conservative red neck reads
that!)

[Tom G.]

"Shawster" wrote in message:

> "Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
> news:rsPob.135666$k74.49308@lakeread05...
> > "Shawster" wrote in message:
> > > > > > "Stangle"... What's that...? I don't think I've ever
stangled
> > > > > > in my life...
> > > > >
> > > > > well it's kind of like strangling but different.
> > > >
> > > > Oh... Naw, never felt the need...
> > >
> > > Just like Rosie, you don't even remember the crap that falls off your
> > > fingers.
> >
> > > I've wanted to strangle those sons-of-bitches that claim they did
> > > a step a week until they got 'em finished..."
> > >
> > > See that last line?? so besides my little typo, it seems you DO want
to
> > > strangle.
> >
> > Damn, what a nitpicker... I'm beginnin' to feel kinda
> > sorry for Rosie now... Havin' to put up with shit like that...
> > She's right, you do need to find something of a life, other than
> > this...
>
> what pointing out bullshit?


Naw, asshole, I just don't dwell on my every damn word
as you appear to... Learn to fuckin' spell and folk will know
what you're referrin' to...

> I consider it service work.

You're not doin' all that hot a job at it... She's comin' off
a lot better than you...

> Typical rosie sockpuppet, get caught in a lie, in the same thread no less,
> and turn it on me like it is my fault.

Lie...?? What lie, you clueless moron... You can't spell well enough
to make yerself understood... Rosie sockpuppet...?? She don't
need one, as I said you ain't keepin up with her as it is... First time
I've ever been accused of bein' a sockpuppet and Rosie's fer Gawd's
sake...

> wanna give me a hug and do the rosie
> tenth step??


Get this Moonraker guy to give you a hug... You two
sound like a couple of fairies to me...

> Love your email by the way. next time you want to point out my typo's
look
> at the content of your own posts, dipshit.


Learn to spell, dipshit...

>
> >
> > > > > you did all the work yourself huh?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Pretty much...
> > >
> > > keep it up then.
> >
> > I will...
>
> it shows.


Your's don't, that's some shitty HP yer usin' there if he/she/it
can't do any better than you... And thank you, btw...

\\\|///
\\ - - //
( @ @ )
---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
--------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

[rosie read and post]

> > > things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way
things
> > > turn
> > > out.
> > > .......................john wooden
>
> The best way to get over a man
> Is to get under a new one.
>
> One drink of an evening,
> two at the very most
> three she's under the table
> four she's under the host.
>
> Tommy
>
>

LOL!

[Bobby L.]

Did you find that chapter "Into Thinking?"

Bobby L


"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bnta56$k47$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
news:301020031806207836%virtualoso@dot.com...
> > In article <7ogob.131242$k74.70363@lakeread05>, Tom G.
> > <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In workin' the A.A. program, what the hell's the hurry...??
> >
> > What's to "wait" for?
>
> In order for me to give each Step a chance of working for me, I have to:
>
> 1. develop an understanding of what it means;
>
> 2. accept it at gut level;
>
> 3. give up ways of thinking and behaviour that are familiar to me.
>
> I am coming to believe that these things happen to me when they're meant
to happen which,
> incidentally, is rarely as quickly as I would like them to :^)).
>
> Yours
>
> JB
>
>

[JB]

"Bobby L." <BobbyL2000nospam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:8P8pb.15638$BX.2305@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Did you find that chapter "Into Thinking?"
>
> Bobby L

Hi,

I couldn't find it in my copy of the BB (third edition) or my other AA books :^)) Where would you
suggest I look for it next ? :^))

JB

[Shawster]

"Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
news:I98pb.135878$k74.115842@lakeread05...
> "Shawster" wrote in message:
>
> > "Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
> > news:rsPob.135666$k74.49308@lakeread05...
> > > "Shawster" wrote in message:
> > > > > > > "Stangle"... What's that...? I don't think I've ever
> stangled
> > > > > > > in my life...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > well it's kind of like strangling but different.
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh... Naw, never felt the need...
> > > >
> > > > Just like Rosie, you don't even remember the crap that falls off
your
> > > > fingers.
> > >
> > > > I've wanted to strangle those sons-of-bitches that claim they did
> > > > a step a week until they got 'em finished..."
> > > >
> > > > See that last line?? so besides my little typo, it seems you DO
want
> to
> > > > strangle.
> > >
> > > Damn, what a nitpicker... I'm beginnin' to feel kinda
> > > sorry for Rosie now... Havin' to put up with shit like that...
> > > She's right, you do need to find something of a life, other than
> > > this...
> >
> > what pointing out bullshit?
>
>
> Naw, asshole, I just don't dwell on my every damn word
> as you appear to... Learn to fuckin' spell and folk will know
> what you're referrin' to...

you *don't* dwell on my every damn word? wow, you are an ignorant fuck
aren't you? I misspelled *ONE* word and I can't be understood? Bah, next
time I'll just cut and paste your words back to you so I don't misspell a
thing.

You post that you want to strangle people, now you are trying to use smoke
and mirrors to pull focus off of that. I misspelled one word and you lose
all sense of comprehension?

can someone please repost that paragraph that is completely misspelt and
highly readable for this guy.

I can almost smell your bullshit through my monitor.

>
> > I consider it service work.
>
> You're not doin' all that hot a job at it... She's comin' off
> a lot better than you...

who is she? are you talking about the fist up your ass?

>
> > Typical rosie sockpuppet, get caught in a lie, in the same thread no
less,
> > and turn it on me like it is my fault.
>
> Lie...?? What lie, you clueless moron... You can't spell well enough
> to make yerself understood... Rosie sockpuppet...?? She don't
> need one, as I said you ain't keepin up with her as it is... First time
> I've ever been accused of bein' a sockpuppet and Rosie's fer Gawd's
> sake...


****I've wanted to strangle those sons-of-bitches that claim they did
**** a step a week until they got 'em finished..."

>>>>>Oh... Naw, never felt the need...


there, I cut and pasted it, so any misspellings are yours.
>
> > wanna give me a hug and do the rosie
> > tenth step??
>
>
> Get this Moonraker guy to give you a hug... You two
> sound like a couple of fairies to me...

Sounds like you are jelous. you stumble over to our group, where we don't
buy your brand bullshit.


>
> > Love your email by the way. next time you want to point out my typo's
> look
> > at the content of your own posts, dipshit.
>
>
> Learn to spell, dipshit...

I can spell dipshit ...*T*O*M*G*
>
> >
> > >
> > > > > > you did all the work yourself huh?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Pretty much...
> > > >
> > > > keep it up then.
> > >
> > > I will...
> >
> > it shows.
>
>
> Your's don't, that's some shitty HP yer usin' there if he/she/it
> can't do any better than you... And thank you, btw...

try your grammar checker mr. typo police.

[Shawster]

"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bo375f$du$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Bobby L." <BobbyL2000nospam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:8P8pb.15638$BX.2305@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> > Did you find that chapter "Into Thinking?"
> >
> > Bobby L
>
> Hi,
>
> I couldn't find it in my copy of the BB (third edition) or my other AA
books :^)) Where would you
> suggest I look for it next ? :^))
>

page 576, third edition. they took it out of the fourth.


> JB
>
>
>
>

[rosie read and post]

does anyone else imagine ELMER FUDD "spitting and sputtering" when the
shawster posts?
LOL!
calm down honey!



"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:sSapb.98162$Go5.1792192@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
>
> "Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
> news:I98pb.135878$k74.115842@lakeread05...
> > "Shawster" wrote in message:
> >
> > > "Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
> > > news:rsPob.135666$k74.49308@lakeread05...
> > > > "Shawster" wrote in message:
> > > > > > > > "Stangle"... What's that...? I don't think I've
ever
> > stangled
> > > > > > > > in my life...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > well it's kind of like strangling but different.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Oh... Naw, never felt the need...
> > > > >
> > > > > Just like Rosie, you don't even remember the crap that falls
off
> your
> > > > > fingers.
> > > >
> > > > > I've wanted to strangle those sons-of-bitches that claim they
did
> > > > > a step a week until they got 'em finished..."
> > > > >
> > > > > See that last line?? so besides my little typo, it seems you
DO
> want
> > to
> > > > > strangle.
> > > >
> > > > Damn, what a nitpicker... I'm beginnin' to feel kinda
> > > > sorry for Rosie now... Havin' to put up with shit like that...
> > > > She's right, you do need to find something of a life, other than
> > > > this...
> > >
> > > what pointing out bullshit?
> >
> >
> > Naw, asshole, I just don't dwell on my every damn word
> > as you appear to... Learn to fuckin' spell and folk will know
> > what you're referrin' to...
>
> you *don't* dwell on my every damn word? wow, you are an ignorant
fuck
> aren't you? I misspelled *ONE* word and I can't be understood? Bah,
next
> time I'll just cut and paste your words back to you so I don't
misspell a
> thing.
>
> You post that you want to strangle people, now you are trying to use
smoke
> and mirrors to pull focus off of that. I misspelled one word and you
lose
> all sense of comprehension?
>
> can someone please repost that paragraph that is completely misspelt
and
> highly readable for this guy.
>
> I can almost smell your bullshit through my monitor.
>
> >
> > > I consider it service work.
> >
> > You're not doin' all that hot a job at it... She's comin' off
> > a lot better than you...
>
> who is she? are you talking about the fist up your ass?
>
> >
> > > Typical rosie sockpuppet, get caught in a lie, in the same thread
no
> less,
> > > and turn it on me like it is my fault.
> >
> > Lie...?? What lie, you clueless moron... You can't spell well
enough
> > to make yerself understood... Rosie sockpuppet...?? She don't
> > need one, as I said you ain't keepin up with her as it is... First
time
> > I've ever been accused of bein' a sockpuppet and Rosie's fer Gawd's
> > sake...
>
>
> ****I've wanted to strangle those sons-of-bitches that claim they did
> **** a step a week until they got 'em finished..."
>
> >>>>>Oh... Naw, never felt the need...
>
>
> there, I cut and pasted it, so any misspellings are yours.
> >
> > > wanna give me a hug and do the rosie
> > > tenth step??
> >
> >
> > Get this Moonraker guy to give you a hug... You two
> > sound like a couple of fairies to me...
>
> Sounds like you are jelous. you stumble over to our group, where we
don't
> buy your brand bullshit.
>
>
> >
> > > Love your email by the way. next time you want to point out my
typo's
> > look
> > > at the content of your own posts, dipshit.
> >
> >
> > Learn to spell, dipshit...
>
> I can spell dipshit ...*T*O*M*G*
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > you did all the work yourself huh?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pretty much...
> > > > >
> > > > > keep it up then.
> > > >
> > > > I will...
> > >
> > > it shows.
> >
> >
> > Your's don't, that's some shitty HP yer usin' there if he/she/it
> > can't do any better than you... And thank you, btw...
>
> try your grammar checker mr. typo police.
>
>
>

[rosie read and post]

ROTFLMAO!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things
turn
out.
........................john wooden






"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:HTapb.98179$Go5.1792352@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bo375f$du$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > "Bobby L." <BobbyL2000nospam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:8P8pb.15638$BX.2305@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> > > Did you find that chapter "Into Thinking?"
> > >
> > > Bobby L
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I couldn't find it in my copy of the BB (third edition) or my other
AA
> books :^)) Where would you
> > suggest I look for it next ? :^))
> >
>
> page 576, third edition. they took it out of the fourth.
>
>
> > JB
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Shawster]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:_Tapb.99332$832.42157@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> does anyone else imagine ELMER FUDD "spitting and sputtering" when the
> shawster posts?
> LOL!
> calm down honey!
>
oh craig..................your in trouble now!
prepare yourself to be taken down the GOOGLE ROAD of altered posts!

sorry but i like my sponsors idea better.................AMENDS mean TO
REPAIR.........................(my side of the bridge)


shaw hon.......................
this is the "rent free space" tom was talking about!

do you know some of your posts are abusive?
do you know that this type of abuse IS considered to be a form of
violence?

do you know a good counselor you could talk to about this violence?
:)

it seems you missed the #1 rule .................."to be healthier than
your clients"!

amending behavior (for me using a killfile for the rest of the month )
to stop myself from arguing with some folks, and cluttering up these
newsgroups has been done, and i believe that it IS WORTHWHILE to the
group, and the possible still suffering alcoholic.
as you said, i have no regret about my statements, to some of these
malcontents.

> > it is amazing how long a couple of you pathetic guys carry on with
your
> > name calling.......................................
> > ROTFLMAO!
>
there are not a whole lot of "others" just a couple of "good old boys",
and their venom for me, has NOTHING to do with me, OR my
story...................
that fact has become obvious to all who read here!
LOL!

yes, i know stuart, but thanks for the gentle reminder.
i try to put on A NEW PAIR OF GLASSES regularly!~
:)
obsessed much?
robert, have a good sunday!


wow, that's a whole lot of "venom" coming from your side of the street.


> >
> >
>
>
>

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:_Tapb.99332$832.42157@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> does anyone else imagine ELMER FUDD "spitting and sputtering" when the
> shawster posts?
> LOL!
> calm down honey!

Nah....but Flip Wilson's "Geraldine Jones" character reminds me a lot of
YOU. " De debbil made me do it"

[rosie read and post]

LOL!
ok elmer!
(so much for your killfile!)
--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things
turn
out.
........................john wooden

[rosie read and post]

oh, i loved flip wilson...........................wonder what happened
to him?
does anyone know?

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things
turn
out.
........................john wooden

[Shawster]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:HEbpb.100081$832.25923@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> LOL!
> ok elmer!
> (so much for your killfile!)

yours as well.

what strikes me funny is that the only one spewing venom is you. but what
else could one expect from you.


> --
> read and post daily, it works!
> rosie
>
> things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things
> turn
> out.
> .......................john wooden
>
>
>

[rosie read and post]

shaw,
most folks who read, know that my killfile is emptied
monthly........................


i keep doing the same thing,(empting killfile) expecting different
results, you know!
:)

(((((((((((((((shaw)))))))))))))))))))
now does that look like venom silly boy?


--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things
turn
out.
........................john wooden






"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qNbpb.98592$Go5.1798049@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:HEbpb.100081$832.25923@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > LOL!
> > ok elmer!
> > (so much for your killfile!)
>
> yours as well.
>
> what strikes me funny is that the only one spewing venom is you. but
what
> else could one expect from you.
>
>
> > --
> > read and post daily, it works!
> > rosie
> >
> > things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way
things
> > turn
> > out.
> > .......................john wooden
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[JB]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:HTapb.98179$Go5.1792352@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bo375f$du$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > "Bobby L." <BobbyL2000nospam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:8P8pb.15638$BX.2305@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> > > Did you find that chapter "Into Thinking?"
> > >
> > > Bobby L
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I couldn't find it in my copy of the BB (third edition) or my other AA
> books :^)) Where would you
> > suggest I look for it next ? :^))
> >
>
> page 576, third edition. they took it out of the fourth.

Damm. That page's missing from my book :^)) I'll wait for the BB fifth ed :^))

JB

[Shawster]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1Pbpb.100227$832.48149@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> shaw,
> most folks who read, know that my killfile is emptied
> monthly........................
>
>
> i keep doing the same thing,(empting killfile) expecting different
> results, you know!
> :)
>
> (((((((((((((((shaw)))))))))))))))))))
> now does that look like venom silly boy?

yes it does.

just wondering, which of your new glasses allow you to read my posts as if I
were elmer fudd, call me silly, and then let you look at your side of the
street and see it clean??


>
>
> --
> read and post daily, it works!
> rosie
>
> things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things
> turn
> out.
> .......................john wooden
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:qNbpb.98592$Go5.1798049@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
> >
> > "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:HEbpb.100081$832.25923@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > LOL!
> > > ok elmer!
> > > (so much for your killfile!)
> >
> > yours as well.
> >
> > what strikes me funny is that the only one spewing venom is you. but
> what
> > else could one expect from you.
> >
> >
> > > --
> > > read and post daily, it works!
> > > rosie
> > >
> > > things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way
> things
> > > turn
> > > out.
> > > .......................john wooden
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Tom G.]

"Shawster" wrote in message:
> > > > > I've wanted to strangle those sons-of-bitches that claim they did
> > > > > a step a week until they got 'em finished..."
> > > > >
> > > > > See that last line?? so besides my little typo, it seems you DO
> want
> > to
> > > > > strangle.
> > > >
> > > > Damn, what a nitpicker... I'm beginnin' to feel kinda
> > > > sorry for Rosie now... Havin' to put up with shit like that...
> > > > She's right, you do need to find something of a life, other than
> > > > this...
> > >
> > > what pointing out bullshit?
> >
> >
> > Naw, asshole, I just don't dwell on my every damn word
> > as you appear to... Learn to fuckin' spell and folk will know
> > what you're referrin' to...
>
> you *don't* dwell on my every damn word? wow, you are an ignorant fuck
> aren't you? I misspelled *ONE* word and I can't be understood? Bah, next
> time I'll just cut and paste your words back to you so I don't misspell a
> thing.


HAR HAR HAR...!!!! This is your "program"...?? It don't
seem to be workin'...:O) Who's yer "higher power", Beezlebub...??
I hope you don't sponsor people, you ain't got nuthin' to give...

> You post that you want to strangle people, now you are trying to use smoke
> and mirrors to pull focus off of that. I misspelled one word and you lose
> all sense of comprehension?


Ignorant people annoy me... And you're damned ignorant...
I shouldn't have to decipher yer drivel, fuckstick...

> can someone please repost that paragraph that is completely misspelt and
> highly readable for this guy.


HAH...!! You can't do it, can you you sixth grade dropout...??

> I can almost smell your bullshit through my monitor.


That's yer breath bouncin back at you, moron...

> > > I consider it service work.
> >
> > You're not doin' all that hot a job at it... She's comin' off
> > a lot better than you...
>
> who is she? are you talking about the fist up your ass?


Rosie...?? Hell, she's the one that lives in yer head rent-free...
Are you havin' trouble keepin shuckster...???

> ****I've wanted to strangle those sons-of-bitches that claim they did
> **** a step a week until they got 'em finished..."
>
> >>>>>Oh... Naw, never felt the need...
>
>
> there, I cut and pasted it, so any misspellings are yours.


Do I ger demerits or what...?? You ain't gonna tell my sponsor
are you...??

> > > Love your email by the way. next time you want to point out my typo's
> > look
> > > at the content of your own posts, dipshit.
> >
> >
> > Learn to spell, dipshit...
>
> I can spell dipshit ...*T*O*M*G*


Ouuuuuugh, I'm wounded... What are you, about ten years
old...???


> > > it shows.
> >
> >
> > Your's don't, that's some shitty HP yer usin' there if he/she/it
> > can't do any better than you... And thank you, btw...
>
> try your grammar checker mr. typo police.



Learn to spell you illiterate peckerhead...

\\\|///
\\ - - //
( @ @ )
---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
--------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

[Shawster]

that is just pitiful. goodbye.


"Tom G." <thegoz@dipshit.com> wrote in message
news:CMdpb.136192$k74.122938@lakeread05...
> "Shawster" wrote in message:
> > > > > > I've wanted to strangle those sons-of-bitches that claim they
did
> > > > > > a step a week until they got 'em finished..."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > See that last line?? so besides my little typo, it seems you DO
> > want
> > > to
> > > > > > strangle.
> > > > >
> > > > > Damn, what a nitpicker... I'm beginnin' to feel kinda
> > > > > sorry for Rosie now... Havin' to put up with shit like that...
> > > > > She's right, you do need to find something of a life, other than
> > > > > this...
> > > >
> > > > what pointing out bullshit?
> > >
> > >
> > > Naw, asshole, I just don't dwell on my every damn word
> > > as you appear to... Learn to fuckin' spell and folk will know
> > > what you're referrin' to...
> >
> > you *don't* dwell on my every damn word? wow, you are an ignorant fuck
> > aren't you? I misspelled *ONE* word and I can't be understood? Bah, next
> > time I'll just cut and paste your words back to you so I don't misspell
a
> > thing.
>
>
> HAR HAR HAR...!!!! This is your "program"...?? It don't
> seem to be workin'...:O) Who's yer "higher power", Beezlebub...??
> I hope you don't sponsor people, you ain't got nuthin' to give...
>
> > You post that you want to strangle people, now you are trying to use
smoke
> > and mirrors to pull focus off of that. I misspelled one word and you
lose
> > all sense of comprehension?
>
>
> Ignorant people annoy me... And you're damned ignorant...
> I shouldn't have to decipher yer drivel, fuckstick...
>
> > can someone please repost that paragraph that is completely misspelt and
> > highly readable for this guy.
>
>
> HAH...!! You can't do it, can you you sixth grade dropout...??
>
> > I can almost smell your bullshit through my monitor.
>
>
> That's yer breath bouncin back at you, moron...
>
> > > > I consider it service work.
> > >
> > > You're not doin' all that hot a job at it... She's comin' off
> > > a lot better than you...
> >
> > who is she? are you talking about the fist up your ass?
>
>
> Rosie...?? Hell, she's the one that lives in yer head rent-free...
> Are you havin' trouble keepin shuckster...???
>
> > ****I've wanted to strangle those sons-of-bitches that claim they did
> > **** a step a week until they got 'em finished..."
> >
> > >>>>>Oh... Naw, never felt the need...
> >
> >
> > there, I cut and pasted it, so any misspellings are yours.
>
>
> Do I ger demerits or what...?? You ain't gonna tell my sponsor
> are you...??
>
> > > > Love your email by the way. next time you want to point out my
typo's
> > > look
> > > > at the content of your own posts, dipshit.
> > >
> > >
> > > Learn to spell, dipshit...
> >
> > I can spell dipshit ...*T*O*M*G*
>
>
> Ouuuuuugh, I'm wounded... What are you, about ten years
> old...???
>
>
> > > > it shows.
> > >
> > >
> > > Your's don't, that's some shitty HP yer usin' there if he/she/it
> > > can't do any better than you... And thank you, btw...
> >
> > try your grammar checker mr. typo police.
>
>
>
> Learn to spell you illiterate peckerhead...
>
> \\\|///
> \\ - - //
> ( @ @ )
> ---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
> Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
> --------------Oooo-------------
> oooO ( )
> ( ) ) /
> \ ( (_/
> \_)
>
>

[Tom G.]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:MZdpb.98998$Go5.1812727@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
> that is just pitiful. goodbye.



(burp) Seeya...

\\\|///
\\ - - //
( @ @ )
---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
Tom Gosnell thegoz@cox.net
--------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1Pbpb.100227$832.48149@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> (((((((((((((((shaw)))))))))))))))))))
> now does that look like venom silly boy?
>

Morticia, is that you?

http://blank.org/link/?q=1067810836

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:lFbpb.100091$832.16869@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> oh, i loved flip wilson...........................wonder what happened
> to him?
> does anyone know?
>
Clerow "Flip" Wilson died Nov. 25, 1998 at age 64, of liver disease.

[Mark Warner]

Shawster wrote:
> "Tom G." wrote
>>
>> Get this Moonraker guy to give you a hug... You two
>> sound like a couple of fairies to me...
>
> Sounds like you are jelous. you stumble over to our group, where we
> don't buy your brand bullshit.


Just a point of information: neither Tom nor any of the rest of us
a.r.aa'ers "stumbled over to *your* group". We were invited over via
Rosie's crosspost. You don't like it, take it up with her.

On the other hand, both groups could use a little new blood. Maybe we
all should thank her.

--
Mark Warner
lose .inhibitions when replying

[Craig S.]

"Bobby L." <BobbyL2000nospam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:8P8pb.15638$BX.2305@bignews5.bellsouth.net...

> Did you find that chapter "Into Thinking?"

Thinking tends to expose so many of the semi-truths presented as actual fact
by members of the fellowship, so it's understandable why thinking is
discouraged to the point of threatening death. That's kind of sick, don't
you think? Oh, wait, you've already implied that you prefer to let others
think for you.

Never mind.