View Full Version : recovered?
pappadoc
10-22-2003, 09:20 AM
There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
some point.The AA program is a program of Uncovering, Discovering and
Discarding. Steps 1-9 are the uncovering steps, clearing away the
wreckage of the past, squeezing us out of ourselves, ego-wise; to get
rid of the human ego temporarily.
Doc
rosie read and post
10-22-2003, 09:27 AM
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, DOCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC!
your going to start an argument in here with those who "believe" they
are RECOVERED.
--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie
the more often I laugh today, the lighter my spirit will feel and. the
healthier my emotional life will become.
............................................karen casey
"pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
news:221020030920262983%pappadoc@kiva.net...
>
> There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
> some point.The AA program is a program of Uncovering, Discovering and
> Discarding. Steps 1-9 are the uncovering steps, clearing away the
> wreckage of the past, squeezing us out of ourselves, ego-wise; to get
> rid of the human ego temporarily.
>
>
> Doc
Blue Moon
10-22-2003, 10:05 AM
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:20:51 GMT, pappadoc <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote:
>There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
>some point.
Have you ever read the Big Book - that basic literature of the
organisation which wrote the Steps you proclaim to use to not recover,
or have you been listening to too much said in meetings that bears no
resemblance to "this message" referred to in Step 12?
Recovered or cured?
Nowhere does the big book support any assertion that nobody recovers.
In many places it directly contradicts such an assertion. However
that is different from being able to drink, which is what one could do
if cured of the physical reaction of alcohol with the body.
So an alcoholic is not cured of the physical reaction to alcohol, but
he can recover from the mental insanity that sets him apart from other
alcohol abusers as alcoholic.
However, the book does make it clear that such recovery is contingent
upon maintenance of spiritual condition. Just the first few pages
throws up a plethora of examples:
"We, of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women
who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body."
(Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 1st edition).
"To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main
purpose of this book." (Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 1st edition).
"In that brief space, Alcoholics Anonymous has mushroomed into nearly
6,000 groups whose membership is far above 150,000 recovered
alcoholics." (Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 2nd edition).
"Their very first case, a desperate one. recovered immediately and
became A.A. number three." (Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 2nd
edition).
Even chapter 5, the most-read portion of the book, states "Those who
do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give
themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are
constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves." and
"There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental
disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be
honest."
The book is full of promises, only a few of which are referred to as
"the promises". Step 10 makes it clear that "For by this time sanity
will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If
tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and
normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We
will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without
any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle
of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We
feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality safe and
protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been
removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we
afraid. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual
condition."
So how can I encounter all those examples and many more of the word
"recover" or "recovering", only find 1 occurance of the word
"recovering" within the first 164 pages (pg. 122), and yet believe
that those who work the program do not recover?
--
Blue Moon
"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ftwlb.63103$pg7.62217@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, DOCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC!
> your going to start an argument in here with those who "believe" they
> are RECOVERED.
>
> --
> read and post daily, it works!
> rosie
>
> the more often I laugh today, the lighter my spirit will feel and. the
> healthier my emotional life will become.
> ...........................................karen casey
As I have only a few months of not drinking under my belt since deciding to give up drinking once
more, I do not have enough personal experience to be able to tell you whether or not I will ever
recover from my alcoholism. However, from posts I've read here, I think I am beginning to
understand AA's view:
From: rosie readandpost (readandpostREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com)
Subject: 9-25-03
Newsgroups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism
Date: 2003-09-25 05:36:07 PST
************************************************** *********
Twenty-Four Hours A Day
A.A. Thought For The Day
Let us consider the term "spiritual experience" as given
in Appendix II of the Big Book: "A spiritual experience
is something that brings about a personality change. By
surrendering our lives to HP as we understand Him, we
are changed. The nature of this change is evident in
recovered alcoholics.
<snip>
From: rosie readandpost (readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com)
Subject: 7-9-03
Newsgroups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism
Date: 2003-07-09 05:04:58 PST
AA Thought for the Day
(courtesy AAOnline.net)
July 9, 2003
Laughter
But we aren't a glum lot.
If newcomers could see no joy or fun in our existence,
they wouldn't want it.
<snip>
But why shouldn't we laugh?
We have recovered,
and have been given the power to help others.
c. 2001 AAWS, Alcoholics Anonymous, p. 132
With permission, Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.
From: rosie readandpost (readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com)
Subject: 4/19/03
Newsgroups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism
Date: 2003-04-19 06:59:33 PST
April 19, 2003
Daily Reflections
BROTHERS IN OUR DEFECTS
We recovered alcoholics are not so much brothers in virtue
as we are brothers in our defects, and in our common
strivings to overcome them.
AS BILL SEES IT, p. 167
<snip>
>
> "pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
> news:221020030920262983%pappadoc@kiva.net...
> >
> > There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
> > some point.The AA program is a program of Uncovering, Discovering and
> > Discarding. Steps 1-9 are the uncovering steps, clearing away the
> > wreckage of the past, squeezing us out of ourselves, ego-wise; to get
> > rid of the human ego temporarily.
> >
> >
> > Doc
>
>
JB wrote:
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ftwlb.63103$pg7.62217@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>> OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, DOCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC!
>> your going to start an argument in here with those who "believe" they
>> are RECOVERED.
>>
>> --
>> read and post daily, it works!
>> rosie
>>
>> the more often I laugh today, the lighter my spirit will feel and.
>> the
>> healthier my emotional life will become.
>> ...........................................karen casey
>
> As I have only a few months of not drinking under my belt since
> deciding to give up drinking once more, I do not have enough personal
> experience to be able to tell you whether or not I will ever recover
> from my alcoholism. However, from posts I've read here, I think I am
> beginning to understand AA's view:
<snip several posts by Rosie that describe alcoholics as 'recovered'>
JB, it is quite clear anything Rosie posts has a unique nature and it cannot,
and shouldn't, be connected or compared to anything she's written before. What
she wrote yesterday, was the absolute truth then, what she writes today, is the
absolute truth today.
Kai
Moonraker
10-22-2003, 12:03 PM
"Kai" <soberon@*NOSPAM*luukku.com> wrote in message
news:bn696r$6tm$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> JB, it is quite clear anything Rosie posts has a unique nature and it
cannot,
> and shouldn't, be connected or compared to anything she's written before.
What
> she wrote yesterday, was the absolute truth then, what she writes today,
is the
> absolute truth today.
Or, maybe not.
There is quite a difference between "truth" and Rosie binBlabbin's twisted
perception of things.
>
> Kai
>
>
JB wrote:
> Kai,
>
> Firstly, FWIW, I always decide for myself whether or not what I read
> has truth in it.
Fair enough. To tell you the truth, so does everyone else.
>
> When I said that I could not say whether or not I will ever recover
> from my alcoholism I was thinking that I would only be able to say
> that I had recovered either if I could one day drink again and always
> retain control of my drinking or if I lost forever the urge to drink.
> At this time, I'm thinking that AA's view of recovery means that I
> only need to lose forever the desire to drink. I think it likely
> that I have not yet fully understood AA's view. I hope this thread
> will enable me to learn more about it.
My view of 'AA's view' as a member, and my personal view also, is that an
alcoholic, in the sense the word is used in AA, cannot recover to the state of
controlled drinking. If a person is able to do that, then the person wasn't 'an
alcoholic as AA sees it' to begin with. But it is quite possible, even as
numerous tales both in the BB and here testify, to recover from the obsession to
drink.
Kai
"Kai" <soberon@*NOSPAM*luukku.com> wrote in message news:bn696r$6tm$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
>
JB wrote:
> > As I have only a few months of not drinking under my belt since
> > deciding to give up drinking once more, I do not have enough personal
> > experience to be able to tell you whether or not I will ever recover
> > from my alcoholism. However, from posts I've read here, I think I am
> > beginning to understand AA's view:
> <snip several posts by Rosie that describe alcoholics as 'recovered'>
Kai wrote:
>
> JB, it is quite clear anything Rosie posts has a unique nature and it cannot,
> and shouldn't, be connected or compared to anything she's written before. What
> she wrote yesterday, was the absolute truth then, what she writes today, is the
> absolute truth today.
>
> Kai
>
Kai,
Firstly, FWIW, I always decide for myself whether or not what I read has truth in it.
When I said that I could not say whether or not I will ever recover from my alcoholism I was
thinking that I would only be able to say that I had recovered either if I could one day drink again
and always retain control of my drinking or if I lost forever the urge to drink. At this time, I'm
thinking that AA's view of recovery means that I only need to lose forever the desire to drink. I
think it likely that I have not yet fully understood AA's view. I hope this thread will enable me
to learn more about it.
Yours
JB
"Kai" <soberon@*NOSPAM*luukku.com> wrote in message news:bn6hfk$79p$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
>
>
> JB wrote:
> > Kai,
> >
> > Firstly, FWIW, I always decide for myself whether or not what I read
> > has truth in it.
>
> Fair enough. To tell you the truth, so does everyone else.
:^))
<snip>
> My view of 'AA's view' as a member, and my personal view also, is that an
> alcoholic, in the sense the word is used in AA, cannot recover to the state of
> controlled drinking. If a person is able to do that, then the person wasn't 'an
> alcoholic as AA sees it' to begin with. But it is quite possible, even as
> numerous tales both in the BB and here testify, to recover from the obsession to
> drink.
>
> Kai
>
Soon after quitting drinking "for good" again, a few weeks ago, I admitted to myself and others that
I was an alcoholic and for the first time truly believed what I said. In so doing, I think I have
finally understood and faced the reality of what happens to me when I drink. I am starting to
believe that if I lose my desire to drink and learn to deal with life on its terms, then I could
consider myself to have recovered from my alcoholism. However, I shamefully admit that I still
occasionally think about experimenting with alcohol to see whether or not I've changed in such a way
that would make it possible for me to control my drinking While I harbour these dangerous thoughts,
I think about recovery also in terms of learning how to control my drinking. I know that I ought
not to do this.
I hope that I've what I've said makes sense.
..
Yours
JB
Bobby L.
10-22-2003, 05:40 PM
Perhaps we should not focus too much on semantics. The simple statement
that there is no such thing as recovered brings to mind not answers but more
questions.
Recovered from what? Drinking? Beer? Liquor? Alcoholism? Lieing? Cheating?
Stealing? Stupid Behavior? Stripping in Bars? Attempting physical acts
better left to professionals?
On some of these things I might be recovered today, but relapse tomorrow...
well maybe not on the physical acts and the bar stripping...(I am not trying
some of those things ever again) -- but perhaps some of the others.
So have a laugh at the semantics of it all... remember some of those
hilariously stupid things we did and will earnestly attempt not to repeat in
this lifetime... and remember to LAUGH!
As far as the arguement of "recovered versus recovering," I have but two
suggestions...
1 -- My ideas about myself and my program end where your ideas about
yourself and your program begin, and
2 -- Remember we are not just autonomous in matters not affecting other
groups or AA as a whole -- we are also autonomous in matters not affecting
other alcoholics -- that's just the way we are.
oh yeah,... have a ROTFLMAO on me!
Bobby L
"pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
news:221020030920262983%pappadoc@kiva.net...
>
> There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
> some point.The AA program is a program of Uncovering, Discovering and
> Discarding. Steps 1-9 are the uncovering steps, clearing away the
> wreckage of the past, squeezing us out of ourselves, ego-wise; to get
> rid of the human ego temporarily.
>
>
> Doc
Robert McGregor
10-22-2003, 06:07 PM
"pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
news:221020030920262983%pappadoc@kiva.net...
>
> There is NO such thing as RECOVERED.
http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_58.htm
Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give
themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are
constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.
>You just arrest the problem at
> some point.The AA program is a program of Uncovering, Discovering and
> Discarding.
http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_59.htm
Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:
Bob, whose recovery is serendipitously beyond the shutters of pappadoc's
comprehension.
"Kai" <soberon@*NOSPAM*luukku.com> wrote in
news:bn6hfk$79p$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi:
>
>
:
>
> My view of 'AA's view' as a member, and my personal view also, is that
> an alcoholic, in the sense the word is used in AA, cannot recover to
> the state of controlled drinking. If a person is able to do that, then
> the person wasn't 'an alcoholic as AA sees it' to begin with. But it
> is quite possible, even as numerous tales both in the BB and here
> testify, to recover from the obsession to drink.
>
> Kai
>
>
>
It was explained to me by my sponser that you are only recovered from the
obsession of the first drink, and that that could change at the drop of a
hat, contingent upon your spiritual condition.
rosie read and post
10-22-2003, 08:44 PM
> 1 -- My ideas about myself and my program end where your ideas about
> yourself and your program begin, and
> 2 -- Remember we are not just autonomous in matters not affecting
other
> groups or AA as a whole -- we are also autonomous in matters not
affecting
> other alcoholics -- that's just the way we are.
>
> oh yeah,... have a ROTFLMAO on me!
>
> Bobby L
i'm not laughing, you make perfect sense!
thanks bobbie!
>
>
>
> "pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
> news:221020030920262983%pappadoc@kiva.net...
> >
> > There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
> > some point.The AA program is a program of Uncovering, Discovering
and
> > Discarding. Steps 1-9 are the uncovering steps, clearing away the
> > wreckage of the past, squeezing us out of ourselves, ego-wise; to
get
> > rid of the human ego temporarily.
> >
> >
> > Doc
>
>
Shawster
10-22-2003, 10:05 PM
ROTFLMAO
((((((((((((JB))))))))))))
look at you, trying to think and use the big book. oh hon.
;o) good work JB, you just might make a good ol' boy yet. all that
thinking for yourself and seeing bullshit for what it is. You just might
recover after all.
Don't be too hard on yourself for having drinking thoughts... you didn't
drink, and that's the most important thing. It is so amazing to see you
now, as opposed to a few months ago, when you were pissed off all the time.
"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bn667i$acs$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ftwlb.63103$pg7.62217@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, DOCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC!
> > your going to start an argument in here with those who "believe" they
> > are RECOVERED.
> >
> > --
> > read and post daily, it works!
> > rosie
> >
> > the more often I laugh today, the lighter my spirit will feel and. the
> > healthier my emotional life will become.
> > ...........................................karen casey
>
> As I have only a few months of not drinking under my belt since deciding
to give up drinking once
> more, I do not have enough personal experience to be able to tell you
whether or not I will ever
> recover from my alcoholism. However, from posts I've read here, I think I
am beginning to
> understand AA's view:
>
> From: rosie readandpost (readandpostREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com)
> Subject: 9-25-03
> Newsgroups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism
> Date: 2003-09-25 05:36:07 PST
>
> ************************************************** *********
>
> Twenty-Four Hours A Day
>
> A.A. Thought For The Day
>
> Let us consider the term "spiritual experience" as given
> in Appendix II of the Big Book: "A spiritual experience
> is something that brings about a personality change. By
> surrendering our lives to HP as we understand Him, we
> are changed. The nature of this change is evident in
> recovered alcoholics.
>
> <snip>
>
> From: rosie readandpost (readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com)
> Subject: 7-9-03
> Newsgroups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism
> Date: 2003-07-09 05:04:58 PST
>
> AA Thought for the Day
> (courtesy AAOnline.net)
>
> July 9, 2003
>
> Laughter
> But we aren't a glum lot.
> If newcomers could see no joy or fun in our existence,
> they wouldn't want it.
> <snip>
> But why shouldn't we laugh?
> We have recovered,
> and have been given the power to help others.
> c. 2001 AAWS, Alcoholics Anonymous, p. 132
> With permission, Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.
>
> From: rosie readandpost (readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com)
> Subject: 4/19/03
> Newsgroups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism
> Date: 2003-04-19 06:59:33 PST
>
> April 19, 2003
>
> Daily Reflections
>
> BROTHERS IN OUR DEFECTS
>
> We recovered alcoholics are not so much brothers in virtue
> as we are brothers in our defects, and in our common
> strivings to overcome them.
> AS BILL SEES IT, p. 167
> <snip>
>
> >
> > "pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
> > news:221020030920262983%pappadoc@kiva.net...
> > >
> > > There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
> > > some point.The AA program is a program of Uncovering, Discovering and
> > > Discarding. Steps 1-9 are the uncovering steps, clearing away the
> > > wreckage of the past, squeezing us out of ourselves, ego-wise; to get
> > > rid of the human ego temporarily.
> > >
> > >
> > > Doc
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
stuart
10-22-2003, 11:28 PM
"pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
news:221020030920262983%pappadoc@kiva.net...
>
> There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
> some point.The AA program is a program of Uncovering, Discovering and
> Discarding. Steps 1-9 are the uncovering steps, clearing away the
> wreckage of the past, squeezing us out of ourselves, ego-wise; to get
> rid of the human ego temporarily.
>
>
> Doc
Then why does it state just under the title of the book "Alcoholics
Anonymous" on the title page;
"Alcoholics Anonymous"
"The story of thousands of men and women who have recovered from alcoholism"
stuart
10-22-2003, 11:29 PM
"Blue Moon" <mfoco_uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:db1417da437caf60876284119ce91e18@news.teranew s.com...
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:20:51 GMT, pappadoc <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote:
>
> >There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
> >some point.
>
> Have you ever read the Big Book - that basic literature of the
> organisation which wrote the Steps you proclaim to use to not recover,
> or have you been listening to too much said in meetings that bears no
> resemblance to "this message" referred to in Step 12?
>
> Recovered or cured?
>
> Nowhere does the big book support any assertion that nobody recovers.
> In many places it directly contradicts such an assertion. However
> that is different from being able to drink, which is what one could do
> if cured of the physical reaction of alcohol with the body.
>
> So an alcoholic is not cured of the physical reaction to alcohol, but
> he can recover from the mental insanity that sets him apart from other
> alcohol abusers as alcoholic.
>
> However, the book does make it clear that such recovery is contingent
> upon maintenance of spiritual condition. Just the first few pages
> throws up a plethora of examples:
>
> "We, of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women
> who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body."
> (Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 1st edition).
>
> "To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main
> purpose of this book." (Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 1st edition).
>
> "In that brief space, Alcoholics Anonymous has mushroomed into nearly
> 6,000 groups whose membership is far above 150,000 recovered
> alcoholics." (Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 2nd edition).
>
> "Their very first case, a desperate one. recovered immediately and
> became A.A. number three." (Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 2nd
> edition).
>
> Even chapter 5, the most-read portion of the book, states "Those who
> do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give
> themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are
> constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves." and
> "There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental
> disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be
> honest."
>
> The book is full of promises, only a few of which are referred to as
> "the promises". Step 10 makes it clear that "For by this time sanity
> will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If
> tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and
> normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We
> will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without
> any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle
> of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We
> feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality safe and
> protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been
> removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we
> afraid. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual
> condition."
>
> So how can I encounter all those examples and many more of the word
> "recover" or "recovering", only find 1 occurance of the word
> "recovering" within the first 164 pages (pg. 122), and yet believe
> that those who work the program do not recover?
>
> --
> Blue Moon
The BB states in many places that we can recover from alcoholism.
pappadoc
10-23-2003, 01:48 AM
Thats it in a nutshell..................
Your only defense against the next drink at any given time is exactly
that. Spiritual condition. Albeit we we not created as automatons,we do
have the power of choice and hence we lose that when we pick up.
Doc
In article <Xns941CD5D0C87D9myobhotmailcom@216.168.3.44>, MYOB
<myob@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Kai" <soberon@*NOSPAM*luukku.com> wrote in
> news:bn6hfk$79p$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi:
>
> >
> >
> :
> >
> > My view of 'AA's view' as a member, and my personal view also, is that
> > an alcoholic, in the sense the word is used in AA, cannot recover to
> > the state of controlled drinking. If a person is able to do that, then
> > the person wasn't 'an alcoholic as AA sees it' to begin with. But it
> > is quite possible, even as numerous tales both in the BB and here
> > testify, to recover from the obsession to drink.
> >
> > Kai
> >
> >
> >
>
> It was explained to me by my sponser that you are only recovered from the
> obsession of the first drink, and that that could change at the drop of a
> hat, contingent upon your spiritual condition.
pappadoc
10-23-2003, 02:12 AM
Moon:
I've read it from front to back. I may have taken out of context, the
way the origional comment was given. In reference to that I must
appologize.
As for what I hear in meetings, I take what I need and leave the rest.
By Gods grace I do not have the compulsion to drink today. But that
little addict is still alive and well and waiting for the chance to
present itself in all of us. Grace is not earned. It isn't accomplished
or achieved thru manipulation or seduction or even thru long periods
of sobriety. It is just given. I dont think anything can condition us
or prepare us for this radical reality.
Doc
In article <db1417da437caf60876284119ce91e18@news.teranews.com >, Blue
Moon <mfoco_uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:20:51 GMT, pappadoc <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote:
>
> >There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
> >some point.
>
> Have you ever read the Big Book - that basic literature of the
> organisation which wrote the Steps you proclaim to use to not recover,
> or have you been listening to too much said in meetings that bears no
> resemblance to "this message" referred to in Step 12?
>
> Recovered or cured?
>
> Nowhere does the big book support any assertion that nobody recovers.
> In many places it directly contradicts such an assertion. However
> that is different from being able to drink, which is what one could do
> if cured of the physical reaction of alcohol with the body.
>
> So an alcoholic is not cured of the physical reaction to alcohol, but
> he can recover from the mental insanity that sets him apart from other
> alcohol abusers as alcoholic.
>
> However, the book does make it clear that such recovery is contingent
> upon maintenance of spiritual condition. Just the first few pages
> throws up a plethora of examples:
>
> "We, of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women
> who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body."
> (Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 1st edition).
>
> "To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main
> purpose of this book." (Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 1st edition).
>
> "In that brief space, Alcoholics Anonymous has mushroomed into nearly
> 6,000 groups whose membership is far above 150,000 recovered
> alcoholics." (Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 2nd edition).
>
> "Their very first case, a desperate one. recovered immediately and
> became A.A. number three." (Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 2nd
> edition).
>
> Even chapter 5, the most-read portion of the book, states "Those who
> do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give
> themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are
> constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves." and
> "There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental
> disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be
> honest."
>
> The book is full of promises, only a few of which are referred to as
> "the promises". Step 10 makes it clear that "For by this time sanity
> will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If
> tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and
> normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We
> will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without
> any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle
> of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We
> feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality safe and
> protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been
> removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we
> afraid. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual
> condition."
>
> So how can I encounter all those examples and many more of the word
> "recover" or "recovering", only find 1 occurance of the word
> "recovering" within the first 164 pages (pg. 122), and yet believe
> that those who work the program do not recover?
pappadoc
10-23-2003, 02:43 AM
Oh well Rosie was right. I posted this a little earlier:
I may have taken out of context, the
way the origional comment was given. In reference to that I must
appologize.
RE: Bob & Moon
As for what I hear in meetings, I take what I need and leave the rest.
By Gods grace I do not have the compulsion to drink today. But that
little addict is still alive and well and waiting for the chance to
present itself in all of us. Grace is not earned. It isn't accomplished
or achieved thru manipulation or seduction or even thru long periods
of sobriety. It is just given. I dont think anything can condition us
or prepare us for that radical reality.
Doc
This is for our intelectual members, and I quote:
"Bob, whose recovery is serendipitously beyond the shutters of
pappadoc's comprehension."
BTW, have some of you checked your EGO/s at the door when you come in?
There is something to be said for that, and it comes right back to the
spiritual aspect of the program. As one very wise man said. "Ego
seperates us from our conscious contact with God, from each other and
eventually from ourselves" Semantic's or no, the truth is the truth.
Rigorously honest, and sometimes brutally so.
Doc
In article <QNIlb.32816$i92.23092@clgrps13>, stuart
<fred@outerspace.jetsons> wrote:
> "pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
> news:221020030920262983%pappadoc@kiva.net...
> >
> > There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
> > some point.The AA program is a program of Uncovering, Discovering and
> > Discarding. Steps 1-9 are the uncovering steps, clearing away the
> > wreckage of the past, squeezing us out of ourselves, ego-wise; to get
> > rid of the human ego temporarily.
> >
> >
> > Doc
>
> Then why does it state just under the title of the book "Alcoholics
> Anonymous" on the title page;
>
> "Alcoholics Anonymous"
>
> "The story of thousands of men and women who have recovered from alcoholism"
>
>
pappadoc wrote:
<snip>
>
> BTW, have some of you checked your EGO/s at the door when you come in?
> There is something to be said for that, and it comes right back to the
> spiritual aspect of the program. As one very wise man said. "Ego
> seperates us from our conscious contact with God, from each other and
> eventually from ourselves" Semantic's or no, the truth is the truth.
> Rigorously honest, and sometimes brutally so.
<snip>
I think it's about time you bought a new bullwhip, your ego's starting to
show. Repent, sinner!
Kai
Robert McGregor
10-23-2003, 05:31 AM
Perhaps, behind the walls of your temple of "truth," any difference between
serendipity, and God's grace, is an ego
thing?
Ps, although ego inflation is but a distant memory, I have followed my
"member" to some very strange places, through both
ecstasy, and agony. Nevertheless, it could hardly be called "intellectual"
.... ;-)
Bob
"pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
news:231020030242418727%pappadoc@kiva.net...
>
> Oh well Rosie was right. I posted this a little earlier:
>
> I may have taken out of context, the
> way the origional comment was given. In reference to that I must
> appologize.
>
> RE: Bob & Moon
> As for what I hear in meetings, I take what I need and leave the rest.
> By Gods grace I do not have the compulsion to drink today. But that
> little addict is still alive and well and waiting for the chance to
> present itself in all of us. Grace is not earned. It isn't accomplished
> or achieved thru manipulation or seduction or even thru long periods
> of sobriety. It is just given. I dont think anything can condition us
> or prepare us for that radical reality.
>
> Doc
>
> This is for our intelectual members, and I quote:
>
> "Bob, whose recovery is serendipitously beyond the shutters of
> pappadoc's comprehension."
>
> BTW, have some of you checked your EGO/s at the door when you come in?
> There is something to be said for that, and it comes right back to the
> spiritual aspect of the program. As one very wise man said. "Ego
> seperates us from our conscious contact with God, from each other and
> eventually from ourselves" Semantic's or no, the truth is the truth.
> Rigorously honest, and sometimes brutally so.
>
> Doc
>
> In article <QNIlb.32816$i92.23092@clgrps13>, stuart
> <fred@outerspace.jetsons> wrote:
>
> > "pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
> > news:221020030920262983%pappadoc@kiva.net...
> > >
> > > There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
> > > some point.The AA program is a program of Uncovering, Discovering and
> > > Discarding. Steps 1-9 are the uncovering steps, clearing away the
> > > wreckage of the past, squeezing us out of ourselves, ego-wise; to get
> > > rid of the human ego temporarily.
> > >
> > >
> > > Doc
> >
> > Then why does it state just under the title of the book "Alcoholics
> > Anonymous" on the title page;
> >
> > "Alcoholics Anonymous"
> >
> > "The story of thousands of men and women who have recovered from
alcoholism"
> >
> >
Shawster
10-23-2003, 07:38 AM
one thing that I have learned about grace, it may be given, but you have to
do the next right thing to get it. You deserve it, by staying sober. You
are a worthy child of God.
"pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
news:231020030211507002%pappadoc@kiva.net...
>
> Moon:
>
> I've read it from front to back. I may have taken out of context, the
> way the origional comment was given. In reference to that I must
> appologize.
>
> As for what I hear in meetings, I take what I need and leave the rest.
> By Gods grace I do not have the compulsion to drink today. But that
> little addict is still alive and well and waiting for the chance to
> present itself in all of us. Grace is not earned. It isn't accomplished
> or achieved thru manipulation or seduction or even thru long periods
> of sobriety. It is just given. I dont think anything can condition us
> or prepare us for this radical reality.
>
> Doc
>
> In article <db1417da437caf60876284119ce91e18@news.teranews.com >, Blue
> Moon <mfoco_uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:20:51 GMT, pappadoc <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote:
> >
> > >There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
> > >some point.
> >
> > Have you ever read the Big Book - that basic literature of the
> > organisation which wrote the Steps you proclaim to use to not recover,
> > or have you been listening to too much said in meetings that bears no
> > resemblance to "this message" referred to in Step 12?
> >
> > Recovered or cured?
> >
> > Nowhere does the big book support any assertion that nobody recovers.
> > In many places it directly contradicts such an assertion. However
> > that is different from being able to drink, which is what one could do
> > if cured of the physical reaction of alcohol with the body.
> >
> > So an alcoholic is not cured of the physical reaction to alcohol, but
> > he can recover from the mental insanity that sets him apart from other
> > alcohol abusers as alcoholic.
> >
> > However, the book does make it clear that such recovery is contingent
> > upon maintenance of spiritual condition. Just the first few pages
> > throws up a plethora of examples:
> >
> > "We, of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women
> > who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body."
> > (Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 1st edition).
> >
> > "To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main
> > purpose of this book." (Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 1st edition).
> >
> > "In that brief space, Alcoholics Anonymous has mushroomed into nearly
> > 6,000 groups whose membership is far above 150,000 recovered
> > alcoholics." (Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 2nd edition).
> >
> > "Their very first case, a desperate one. recovered immediately and
> > became A.A. number three." (Alcoholics Anonymous foreword to 2nd
> > edition).
> >
> > Even chapter 5, the most-read portion of the book, states "Those who
> > do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give
> > themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are
> > constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves." and
> > "There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental
> > disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be
> > honest."
> >
> > The book is full of promises, only a few of which are referred to as
> > "the promises". Step 10 makes it clear that "For by this time sanity
> > will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If
> > tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and
> > normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We
> > will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without
> > any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle
> > of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We
> > feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality safe and
> > protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been
> > removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we
> > afraid. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual
> > condition."
> >
> > So how can I encounter all those examples and many more of the word
> > "recover" or "recovering", only find 1 occurance of the word
> > "recovering" within the first 164 pages (pg. 122), and yet believe
> > that those who work the program do not recover?
>
pappadoc
10-23-2003, 08:15 AM
Bob:
Well said :-)
LMAO
Doc
Oh EXCUSEEEEEEEEEE Me KIA: I forgot to crack my friggin whip..........
Acceptance is the answer to all my problems today......
Have a great day all of you.
Doc
In article <bn8b8b$ufp4u$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert
McGregor <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> Perhaps, behind the walls of your temple of "truth," any difference between
> serendipity, and God's grace, is an ego
> thing?
>
> Ps, although ego inflation is but a distant memory, I have followed my
> "member" to some very strange places, through both
> ecstasy, and agony. Nevertheless, it could hardly be called "intellectual"
> ... ;-)
>
> Bob
>
>
> "pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
> news:231020030242418727%pappadoc@kiva.net...
> >
> > Oh well Rosie was right. I posted this a little earlier:
> >
> > I may have taken out of context, the
> > way the origional comment was given. In reference to that I must
> > appologize.
> >
> > RE: Bob & Moon
> > As for what I hear in meetings, I take what I need and leave the rest.
> > By Gods grace I do not have the compulsion to drink today. But that
> > little addict is still alive and well and waiting for the chance to
> > present itself in all of us. Grace is not earned. It isn't accomplished
> > or achieved thru manipulation or seduction or even thru long periods
> > of sobriety. It is just given. I dont think anything can condition us
> > or prepare us for that radical reality.
> >
> > Doc
> >
> > This is for our intelectual members, and I quote:
> >
> > "Bob, whose recovery is serendipitously beyond the shutters of
> > pappadoc's comprehension."
> >
> > BTW, have some of you checked your EGO/s at the door when you come in?
> > There is something to be said for that, and it comes right back to the
> > spiritual aspect of the program. As one very wise man said. "Ego
> > seperates us from our conscious contact with God, from each other and
> > eventually from ourselves" Semantic's or no, the truth is the truth.
> > Rigorously honest, and sometimes brutally so.
> >
> > Doc
> >
> > In article <QNIlb.32816$i92.23092@clgrps13>, stuart
> > <fred@outerspace.jetsons> wrote:
> >
> > > "pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
> > > news:221020030920262983%pappadoc@kiva.net...
> > > >
> > > > There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
> > > > some point.The AA program is a program of Uncovering, Discovering and
> > > > Discarding. Steps 1-9 are the uncovering steps, clearing away the
> > > > wreckage of the past, squeezing us out of ourselves, ego-wise; to get
> > > > rid of the human ego temporarily.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Doc
> > >
> > > Then why does it state just under the title of the book "Alcoholics
> > > Anonymous" on the title page;
> > >
> > > "Alcoholics Anonymous"
> > >
> > > "The story of thousands of men and women who have recovered from
> alcoholism"
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
pappadoc wrote:
>
> Oh EXCUSEEEEEEEEEE Me KIA: I forgot to crack my friggin whip..........
It's okay pappadog, don't even mention it.
>
> Acceptance is the answer to all my problems today......
> Have a great day all of you.
And the same to you.
Kai
Moonraker
10-23-2003, 08:50 AM
"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:fZPlb.25159$Go5.364790@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
> one thing that I have learned about grace, it may be given, but you have
to
> do the next right thing to get it. You deserve it, by staying sober. You
> are a worthy child of God.
>
I have a different viewpoint on this....
As I understand it, Grace is "always" there for us to avail ourselves of.
It is we humans who often don't accept it. I do not believe that one must
DO anything to get it. Nothing you or I can do would ever make us deserving
of that grace. As a parent, what could one of my children do that would
make me love them? Nothing, I love them because they ARE my child.
(Sometimes I might not like their actions very much. But, that's another
story.)
I always thought of grace as discovering a cool spring while on a long hike.
I could drink of it and be refreshed, or I could walk on past, and stay
thirsty. It was there for me and other travelers, it was just my choice to
make.
I have heard it said that "Grace is getting what you don't deserve. Mercy
is not getting what you DO deserve."
Blue Moon
10-23-2003, 10:13 AM
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:48:24 GMT, pappadoc <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote:
>Thats it in a nutshell..................
>Your only defense against the next drink at any given time is exactly
>that. Spiritual condition. Albeit we we not created as automatons,we do
>have the power of choice and hence we lose that when we pick up.
For me, that choice was lost prior to picking up.
--
Blue Moon
Blue Moon
10-23-2003, 10:18 AM
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:12:15 GMT, pappadoc <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote:
>I've read it from front to back. I may have taken out of context, the
>way the origional comment was given. In reference to that I must
>appologize.
No apology needed, it's just that "we don't recover" is one of the
most-often spoken contradictions that I've heard in AA meetings. I'm
always careful to say we're not CURED in that we're not safe to drink,
however I have recovered from that mental insanity that precedes the
first drink.
In that context, I must disagree with the book where it states "we
have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind AND BODY".
--
Blue Moon
pappadoc
10-23-2003, 11:58 AM
Kai:
Damm, my dyslexia is showing up again. I mispelled your nick ..... my
bad :-)
Later all.
Doc
In article <bn8lgh$cv2$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>, Kai
<soberon@NOSPAM.luukku.com> wrote:
> pappadoc wrote:
> >
> > Oh EXCUSEEEEEEEEEE Me KIA: I forgot to crack my friggin whip..........
>
> It's okay pappadog, don't even mention it.
>
> >
> > Acceptance is the answer to all my problems today......
> > Have a great day all of you.
>
> And the same to you.
>
> Kai
>
>
stuart
10-23-2003, 02:44 PM
"pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
news:231020030242418727%pappadoc@kiva.net...
>
> Oh well Rosie was right. I posted this a little earlier:
>
> I may have taken out of context, the
> way the origional comment was given. In reference to that I must
> appologize.
>
> RE: Bob & Moon
> As for what I hear in meetings, I take what I need and leave the rest.
> By Gods grace I do not have the compulsion to drink today. But that
> little addict is still alive and well and waiting for the chance to
> present itself in all of us. Grace is not earned. It isn't accomplished
> or achieved thru manipulation or seduction or even thru long periods
> of sobriety. It is just given. I dont think anything can condition us
> or prepare us for that radical reality.
>
> Doc
>
> This is for our intelectual members, and I quote:
>
> "Bob, whose recovery is serendipitously beyond the shutters of
> pappadoc's comprehension."
>
> BTW, have some of you checked your EGO/s at the door when you come in?
> There is something to be said for that, and it comes right back to the
> spiritual aspect of the program. As one very wise man said. "Ego
> seperates us from our conscious contact with God, from each other and
> eventually from ourselves" Semantic's or no, the truth is the truth.
> Rigorously honest, and sometimes brutally so.
There really is no argument here, doc, its really around the language and
use of words. Words are really just symbols we use to express ideas. No one
in this thread has disagreed on the fundamentals of recovery ie if we follow
the BB, we receive a daily reprieve contigent upon our spiritual condition.
Does this mean recovered from ALCOHOLism? I think it does if you string a
number of 24 hrs together. Recovered from alcoholISM? A work in progress,
really.
I think we can recover from both, but an alcoholic will always be alcoholic
ie have the potential to get sick again.
If I didn't figure I could have recovered in some sense or another, I would
never have come to AA in the first place...
just my thoughts.
> Doc
>
> In article <QNIlb.32816$i92.23092@clgrps13>, stuart
> <fred@outerspace.jetsons> wrote:
>
> > "pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
> > news:221020030920262983%pappadoc@kiva.net...
> > >
> > > There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
> > > some point.The AA program is a program of Uncovering, Discovering and
> > > Discarding. Steps 1-9 are the uncovering steps, clearing away the
> > > wreckage of the past, squeezing us out of ourselves, ego-wise; to get
> > > rid of the human ego temporarily.
> > >
> > >
> > > Doc
> >
> > Then why does it state just under the title of the book "Alcoholics
> > Anonymous" on the title page;
> >
> > "Alcoholics Anonymous"
> >
> > "The story of thousands of men and women who have recovered from
alcoholism"
> >
> >
Robert McGregor
10-23-2003, 02:49 PM
"Blue Moon" <mfoco_uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:f78629a982a499ac41cd261e4902d699@news.teranew s.com...
> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:12:15 GMT, pappadoc <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote:
>
> >I've read it from front to back. I may have taken out of context, the
> >way the origional comment was given. In reference to that I must
> >appologize.
>
> No apology needed, it's just that "we don't recover" is one of the
> most-often spoken contradictions that I've heard in AA meetings. I'm
> always careful to say we're not CURED in that we're not safe to drink,
> however I have recovered from that mental insanity that precedes the
> first drink.
>
> In that context, I must disagree with the book where it states "we
> have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind AND BODY".
>
> --
> Blue Moon
Perhaps the day will come when, finally aware of ageing bodies persistently
battered by alcoholic excess, before a minute percentage of those same
bodies are miraculously freed of such a relatively terrible condition, you
will regard your personal ignorance of *hopelessness* as a blessing.
Bob.
Robert McGregor
10-23-2003, 06:20 PM
"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bn9m8h$e5h$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bn9bb6$urplq$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Blue Moon" <mfoco_uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:f78629a982a499ac41cd261e4902d699@news.teranew s.com...
> > > On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:12:15 GMT, pappadoc <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >I've read it from front to back. I may have taken out of context, the
> > > >way the origional comment was given. In reference to that I must
> > > >appologize.
> > >
> > > No apology needed, it's just that "we don't recover" is one of the
> > > most-often spoken contradictions that I've heard in AA meetings. I'm
> > > always careful to say we're not CURED in that we're not safe to drink,
> > > however I have recovered from that mental insanity that precedes the
> > > first drink.
> > >
> > > In that context, I must disagree with the book where it states "we
> > > have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind AND BODY".
> > >
> > > --
> > > Blue Moon
> >
> > Perhaps the day will come when, finally aware of ageing bodies
persistently
> > battered by alcoholic excess, before a minute percentage of those same
> > bodies are miraculously freed of such a relatively terrible condition,
you
> > will regard your personal ignorance of *hopelessness* as a blessing.
> >
> > Bob.
> >
> Tonight I've been listening to one of my Joe and Charlie tapes. If I have
understood what they were
> saying, it seems: that if alcoholics stop drinking for good their bodies
recover because they are
> freed from having an allergic reaction to alcohol. It also seems that
because of their allergic
> reaction to alcohol, alcoholics bodies keep demanding alcohol once they
take a drink. If I have
> misunderstood Joe and Charlie's tapes I hope to learn from someone here
where I went wrong.
>
> Yours
>
> JB
>
> PS: For those who don't know, Joe and Charlie's view is that expressed in
AA's BB in the chapter
> "The Doctor's Opinion".
>
>
I do believe that although my body cannot ever be freed from a particularly
adverse reaction to alcohol, I know for sure and certain it has been freed
from that reaction. The effects are profound, but the reason is simple.
Regardless of my so called "spiritual condition" I no longer drink alcohol!
Bob ?vnNNNNB;-)
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bn9bb6$urplq$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Blue Moon" <mfoco_uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:f78629a982a499ac41cd261e4902d699@news.teranew s.com...
> > On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:12:15 GMT, pappadoc <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote:
> >
> > >I've read it from front to back. I may have taken out of context, the
> > >way the origional comment was given. In reference to that I must
> > >appologize.
> >
> > No apology needed, it's just that "we don't recover" is one of the
> > most-often spoken contradictions that I've heard in AA meetings. I'm
> > always careful to say we're not CURED in that we're not safe to drink,
> > however I have recovered from that mental insanity that precedes the
> > first drink.
> >
> > In that context, I must disagree with the book where it states "we
> > have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind AND BODY".
> >
> > --
> > Blue Moon
>
> Perhaps the day will come when, finally aware of ageing bodies persistently
> battered by alcoholic excess, before a minute percentage of those same
> bodies are miraculously freed of such a relatively terrible condition, you
> will regard your personal ignorance of *hopelessness* as a blessing.
>
> Bob.
>
Tonight I've been listening to one of my Joe and Charlie tapes. If I have understood what they were
saying, it seems: that if alcoholics stop drinking for good their bodies recover because they are
freed from having an allergic reaction to alcohol. It also seems that because of their allergic
reaction to alcohol, alcoholics bodies keep demanding alcohol once they take a drink. If I have
misunderstood Joe and Charlie's tapes I hope to learn from someone here where I went wrong.
Yours
JB
PS: For those who don't know, Joe and Charlie's view is that expressed in AA's BB in the chapter
"The Doctor's Opinion".
Sorry about the title of my previous post. Again, I blame the cat :^))
JB
Blue Moon
10-23-2003, 07:07 PM
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 05:49:44 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>"Blue Moon" <mfoco_uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:f78629a982a499ac41cd261e4902d699@news.teranew s.com...
>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:12:15 GMT, pappadoc <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote:
>> In that context, I must disagree with the book where it states "we
>> have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind AND BODY".
>
>Perhaps the day will come when, finally aware of ageing bodies persistently
>battered by alcoholic excess, before a minute percentage of those same
>bodies are miraculously freed of such a relatively terrible condition, you
>will regard your personal ignorance of *hopelessness* as a blessing.
What Step is it that relieves the body of any such condition?
Physical recovery from the effects of alcohol is achieved simply
through not drinking. As such, many physically hopeless drunks are
able to recover from the physical effects without working any program
at all beyond "just don't drink".
--
Blue Moon
Robert McGregor
10-23-2003, 07:19 PM
"Blue Moon" <mfoco_uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8877bd3dffea87ef08db67b2f2538b01@news.teranew s.com...
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 05:49:44 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
> <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Blue Moon" <mfoco_uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:f78629a982a499ac41cd261e4902d699@news.teranew s.com...
> >> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:12:15 GMT, pappadoc <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote:
>
> >> In that context, I must disagree with the book where it states "we
> >> have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind AND BODY".
> >
> >Perhaps the day will come when, finally aware of ageing bodies
persistently
> >battered by alcoholic excess, before a minute percentage of those same
> >bodies are miraculously freed of such a relatively terrible condition,
you
> >will regard your personal ignorance of *hopelessness* as a blessing.
>
> What Step is it that relieves the body of any such condition?
> Physical recovery from the effects of alcohol is achieved simply
> through not drinking. As such, many physically hopeless drunks are
> able to recover from the physical effects without working any program
> at all beyond "just don't drink".
>
> --
> Blue Moon
Perhaps the day will come when you will regard your personal ignorance of
*hopelessness* as a blessing.
Bob
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bn9nn3$uqsao$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bn9m8h$e5h$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
<snip> > > Tonight I've been listening to one of my Joe and Charlie tapes. If I have
> understood what they were
> > saying, it seems: that if alcoholics stop drinking for good their bodies
> recover because they are
> > freed from having an allergic reaction to alcohol. It also seems that
> because of their allergic
> > reaction to alcohol, alcoholics bodies keep demanding alcohol once they
> take a drink. If I have
> > misunderstood Joe and Charlie's tapes I hope to learn from someone here
> where I went wrong.
> >
> > Yours
> >
> > JB
> >
> > PS: For those who don't know, Joe and Charlie's view is that expressed in
> AA's BB in the chapter
> > "The Doctor's Opinion".
> >
> >
>
> I do believe that although my body cannot ever be freed from a particularly
> adverse reaction to alcohol, I know for sure and certain it has been freed
> from that reaction. The effects are profound, but the reason is simple.
> Regardless of my so called "spiritual condition" I no longer drink alcohol!
>
> Bob ?vnNNNNB;-)
Hi Bob,
You've said what I meant to Thank you :^)).
Best regards
JB
pappadoc
10-23-2003, 11:00 PM
I know what you mean. The ISIMS of my illness have been a bain for me.
Just putting the plug in the jug didnt do it. Ive had my bouts of
relapse and as you probably know it never got any better. But after as
you said puttting a string of 24 hrs together, well the program started
to work me instead of me working it all of the time. I suppose that is
another example of Gods grace in action. Today the only way I can
receive that grace is to just get the hell outta the way and not try to
BE God and just try to be good :-)
Later all, I just got home from a great meeting and its late.
Have a better one!
Doc
In article <zcWlb.39774$i92.17068@clgrps13>, stuart <nospam@freds.com>
wrote:
> "pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
> news:231020030242418727%pappadoc@kiva.net...
> >
> > Oh well Rosie was right. I posted this a little earlier:
> >
> > I may have taken out of context, the
> > way the origional comment was given. In reference to that I must
> > appologize.
> >
> > RE: Bob & Moon
> > As for what I hear in meetings, I take what I need and leave the rest.
> > By Gods grace I do not have the compulsion to drink today. But that
> > little addict is still alive and well and waiting for the chance to
> > present itself in all of us. Grace is not earned. It isn't accomplished
> > or achieved thru manipulation or seduction or even thru long periods
> > of sobriety. It is just given. I dont think anything can condition us
> > or prepare us for that radical reality.
> >
> > Doc
> >
> > This is for our intelectual members, and I quote:
> >
> > "Bob, whose recovery is serendipitously beyond the shutters of
> > pappadoc's comprehension."
> >
> > BTW, have some of you checked your EGO/s at the door when you come in?
> > There is something to be said for that, and it comes right back to the
> > spiritual aspect of the program. As one very wise man said. "Ego
> > seperates us from our conscious contact with God, from each other and
> > eventually from ourselves" Semantic's or no, the truth is the truth.
> > Rigorously honest, and sometimes brutally so.
>
> There really is no argument here, doc, its really around the language and
> use of words. Words are really just symbols we use to express ideas. No one
> in this thread has disagreed on the fundamentals of recovery ie if we follow
> the BB, we receive a daily reprieve contigent upon our spiritual condition.
> Does this mean recovered from ALCOHOLism? I think it does if you string a
> number of 24 hrs together. Recovered from alcoholISM? A work in progress,
> really.
> I think we can recover from both, but an alcoholic will always be alcoholic
> ie have the potential to get sick again.
> If I didn't figure I could have recovered in some sense or another, I would
> never have come to AA in the first place...
>
> just my thoughts.
>
>
>
>
> > Doc
> >
> > In article <QNIlb.32816$i92.23092@clgrps13>, stuart
> > <fred@outerspace.jetsons> wrote:
> >
> > > "pappadoc" <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote in message
> > > news:221020030920262983%pappadoc@kiva.net...
> > > >
> > > > There is NO such thing as RECOVERED. You just arrest the problem at
> > > > some point.The AA program is a program of Uncovering, Discovering and
> > > > Discarding. Steps 1-9 are the uncovering steps, clearing away the
> > > > wreckage of the past, squeezing us out of ourselves, ego-wise; to get
> > > > rid of the human ego temporarily.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Doc
> > >
> > > Then why does it state just under the title of the book "Alcoholics
> > > Anonymous" on the title page;
> > >
> > > "Alcoholics Anonymous"
> > >
> > > "The story of thousands of men and women who have recovered from
> alcoholism"
> > >
> > >
>
>
--
pappadoc
10-23-2003, 11:04 PM
Thank You.
Doc
In article <bn9m8h$e5h$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB
<JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bn9bb6$urplq$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Blue Moon" <mfoco_uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:f78629a982a499ac41cd261e4902d699@news.teranew s.com...
> > > On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:12:15 GMT, pappadoc <pappadoc@kiva.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >I've read it from front to back. I may have taken out of context, the
> > > >way the origional comment was given. In reference to that I must
> > > >appologize.
> > >
> > > No apology needed, it's just that "we don't recover" is one of the
> > > most-often spoken contradictions that I've heard in AA meetings. I'm
> > > always careful to say we're not CURED in that we're not safe to drink,
> > > however I have recovered from that mental insanity that precedes the
> > > first drink.
> > >
> > > In that context, I must disagree with the book where it states "we
> > > have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind AND BODY".
> > >
> > > --
> > > Blue Moon
> >
> > Perhaps the day will come when, finally aware of ageing bodies persistently
> > battered by alcoholic excess, before a minute percentage of those same
> > bodies are miraculously freed of such a relatively terrible condition, you
> > will regard your personal ignorance of *hopelessness* as a blessing.
> >
> > Bob.
> >
> Tonight I've been listening to one of my Joe and Charlie tapes. If I have
> understood what they were
> saying, it seems: that if alcoholics stop drinking for good their bodies
> recover because they are
> freed from having an allergic reaction to alcohol. It also seems that
> because of their allergic
> reaction to alcohol, alcoholics bodies keep demanding alcohol once they take
> a drink. If I have
> misunderstood Joe and Charlie's tapes I hope to learn from someone here
> where I went wrong.
>
> Yours
>
> JB
>
> PS: For those who don't know, Joe and Charlie's view is that expressed in AA's BB in the chapter
> "The Doctor's Opinion".
>
>
Robert McGregor
10-24-2003, 02:00 AM
"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bn9sag$us2$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bn9nn3$uqsao$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> > news:bn9m8h$e5h$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> <snip> > > Tonight I've been listening to one of my Joe and Charlie tapes.
If I have
> > understood what they were
> > > saying, it seems: that if alcoholics stop drinking for good their
bodies
> > recover because they are
> > > freed from having an allergic reaction to alcohol. It also seems that
> > because of their allergic
> > > reaction to alcohol, alcoholics bodies keep demanding alcohol once
they
> > take a drink. If I have
> > > misunderstood Joe and Charlie's tapes I hope to learn from someone
here
> > where I went wrong.
> > >
> > > Yours
> > >
> > > JB
> > >
> > > PS: For those who don't know, Joe and Charlie's view is that
expressed in
> > AA's BB in the chapter
> > > "The Doctor's Opinion".
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I do believe that although my body cannot ever be freed from a
particularly
> > adverse reaction to alcohol, I know for sure and certain it has been
freed
> > from that reaction. The effects are profound, but the reason is simple.
> > Regardless of my so called "spiritual condition" I no longer drink
alcohol!
> >
> > Bob ?vnNNNNB;-)
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> You've said what I meant to Thank you :^)).
>
> Best regards
>
> JB
>
>
Ah, the ironies of Usenet;-) After clicking "send," I was very annoyed with
myself, for expressing my experience so ineptly:)
Bob
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bnaim0$um6g2$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bn9sag$us2$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
<snip>
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> > You've said what I meant to Thank you :^)).
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > JB
> >
> >
>
> Ah, the ironies of Usenet;-) After clicking "send," I was very annoyed with
> myself, for expressing my experience so ineptly:)
>
> Bob
>
LOL and thank you.
Bob, I feel you've sensed my frustration at not being always able to express myself as eloquently
as some who post here (yourself, Blue Moon and Moonraker for example). Your post has stopped me
feeling so bad about myself which I always do when I compare what I can do with people whom I
recognise as being more accomplished.. I know that I ought not to make such comparisons because in
the past I have used this as an excuse to drink. As I've done it nearly all my life, it's hard to
break the habit :^)).
Incidentally, these days, I recognise that I have a tendency to wallow in self-pity and I'm trying
to stop doing that.
Best regards
JB
Moonraker
10-24-2003, 08:16 AM
"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bnas83$j9l$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> Bob, I feel you've sensed my frustration at not being always able to
express myself as eloquently
> as some who post here (yourself, Blue Moon and Moonraker for example).
Your post has stopped me
> feeling so bad about myself which I always do when I compare what I can do
with people whom I
> recognise as being more accomplished..
Most drunks will tell you that they didn't want to be who they were. That
they weren't comfortable with themselves and wanted to be somebody (anybody)
else. Later, after some time in recovery, you'll hear those same people
saying that they actually like themselves and are glad they are who they
are. Only the first half of the first step has to do with not drinking,
the other 11 and a half steps are about changing one's life.
I know that I ought not to make such comparisons because in
> the past I have used this as an excuse to drink. As I've done it nearly
all my life, it's hard to
> break the habit :^)).
"We admitted that we were powerless over (comparisons) and that our lives
(were our own to live). " ;>)
>
> Incidentally, these days, I recognise that I have a tendency to wallow in
self-pity and I'm trying
> to stop doing that.
>
> Best regards
Robert McGregor
10-28-2003, 03:04 PM
"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bnas83$j9l$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bnaim0$um6g2$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> > news:bn9sag$us2$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> <snip>
>
> > > Hi Bob,
> > >
> > > You've said what I meant to Thank you :^)).
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > >
> > > JB
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Ah, the ironies of Usenet;-) After clicking "send," I was very annoyed
with
> > myself, for expressing my experience so ineptly:)
> >
> > Bob
> >
> LOL and thank you.
>
> Bob, I feel you've sensed my frustration at not being always able to
express myself as eloquently
> as some who post here (yourself, Blue Moon and Moonraker for example).
Jeez, JB, no intuition there, you had clearly expressed the notion that I
said what you wanted to say, but didn't.
>Your post has stopped me
> feeling so bad about myself which I always do when I compare what I can do
with people whom I
> recognise as being more accomplished.. I know that I ought not to make
such comparisons because in
> the past I have used this as an excuse to drink. As I've done it nearly
all my life, it's hard to
> break the habit :^)).
For me, having taken step one, "wanting" to drink is merely an exercise in
nurturing the thoughts of failure. Any "want" is *preceded* by a fleeting
desire. As a result of taking the steps, I have found the power to avoid
nurturing unanted desire. Conversely, I have found that appropriate action
can convert appropriate desires into reality.
(Although there may be a vast difference between my imagination, and
eventual reality. Have just arrived home after a long wanted cruise to a
very attractive beach on a tropic island. Due to the deteriorating state of
my health, and the weather, along with the long arm of bureauracracy, in
many respects it was the worst sailing trip of my life. After a night with
waves breaking over the boat at the new govt designated anchorage,
regulations were I had to vacate the mooring by 9am, leaving no time to dry
me and my gear out. I got there though, and that's what I had wanted. One of
those adventures best described as a "learning experience":-)
>
> Incidentally, these days, I recognise that I have a tendency to wallow in
self-pity and I'm trying
> to stop doing that.
I think most of us who take recovery seriously tend to initially try to be
instant saints. Soon after I got sober, while my enthusiasm was only
exceeded by the clearing fog of active alcoholism, I was asked to chair an
AA meeting. Given that bars here close at 10pm, I sub consciously imagined
the AA meeting would close at 10pm too. At 9:30 pm (when the meeting was
actually supposd to end) I asked a particuly tedious and long winded fellow
to share. A significent number of long time members silently stood, tossed a
few coins on the table, and left the meeting.. I had inadvertantly
discovered the AA concept of "resentment time."
However I had taken "care" as the operative word of step three to heart.
Where I could have been mortified over my inept chairmanship, I merely said
a brief prayer, "Jeez God, *we* sure stuffed up there, didn't we." As I
write, I realise that was probably my first experience of AA's "Rule 62" in
action. I trust it won't be the last ....... an invaluable experience!
>
> Best regards
>
> JB
Best regards to U2
Bob
Mikey
10-28-2003, 09:55 PM
WTF are you talking about??? What is "Rule 62"?? Is that some secret AA rule
the rest of us don't know about yet? Do I need to be in AA for X amount of
years before I am privey to Rule 62?
Sheesh... more arguments for the "One-Step" program...
Step 1: DON'T DRINK!
Enjoy whatever sobriety you may or may not have.
--Mikey--
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bnmli9$135ca9$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bnas83$j9l$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:bnaim0$um6g2$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> > > news:bn9sag$us2$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > <snip>
> >
> > > > Hi Bob,
> > > >
> > > > You've said what I meant to Thank you :^)).
> > > >
> > > > Best regards
> > > >
> > > > JB
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Ah, the ironies of Usenet;-) After clicking "send," I was very
annoyed
> with
> > > myself, for expressing my experience so ineptly:)
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > LOL and thank you.
> >
> > Bob, I feel you've sensed my frustration at not being always able to
> express myself as eloquently
> > as some who post here (yourself, Blue Moon and Moonraker for example).
>
> Jeez, JB, no intuition there, you had clearly expressed the notion that I
> said what you wanted to say, but didn't.
>
> >Your post has stopped me
> > feeling so bad about myself which I always do when I compare what I can
do
> with people whom I
> > recognise as being more accomplished.. I know that I ought not to make
> such comparisons because in
> > the past I have used this as an excuse to drink. As I've done it nearly
> all my life, it's hard to
> > break the habit :^)).
>
> For me, having taken step one, "wanting" to drink is merely an exercise in
> nurturing the thoughts of failure. Any "want" is *preceded* by a fleeting
> desire. As a result of taking the steps, I have found the power to avoid
> nurturing unanted desire. Conversely, I have found that appropriate action
> can convert appropriate desires into reality.
>
> (Although there may be a vast difference between my imagination, and
> eventual reality. Have just arrived home after a long wanted cruise to a
> very attractive beach on a tropic island. Due to the deteriorating state
of
> my health, and the weather, along with the long arm of bureauracracy, in
> many respects it was the worst sailing trip of my life. After a night with
> waves breaking over the boat at the new govt designated anchorage,
> regulations were I had to vacate the mooring by 9am, leaving no time to
dry
> me and my gear out. I got there though, and that's what I had wanted. One
of
> those adventures best described as a "learning experience":-)
>
> >
> > Incidentally, these days, I recognise that I have a tendency to wallow
in
> self-pity and I'm trying
> > to stop doing that.
>
> I think most of us who take recovery seriously tend to initially try to be
> instant saints. Soon after I got sober, while my enthusiasm was only
> exceeded by the clearing fog of active alcoholism, I was asked to chair an
> AA meeting. Given that bars here close at 10pm, I sub consciously imagined
> the AA meeting would close at 10pm too. At 9:30 pm (when the meeting was
> actually supposd to end) I asked a particuly tedious and long winded
fellow
> to share. A significent number of long time members silently stood, tossed
a
> few coins on the table, and left the meeting.. I had inadvertantly
> discovered the AA concept of "resentment time."
>
> However I had taken "care" as the operative word of step three to heart.
> Where I could have been mortified over my inept chairmanship, I merely
said
> a brief prayer, "Jeez God, *we* sure stuffed up there, didn't we." As I
> write, I realise that was probably my first experience of AA's "Rule 62"
in
> action. I trust it won't be the last ....... an invaluable experience!
>
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > JB
>
> Best regards to U2
>
> Bob
>
>
Shawster
10-28-2003, 10:30 PM
well dipshit. Just because *YOU* don't know something doesn't mean *WE*
don't know it. Please do not assume to speak for anyone but yourself.
*You* are not the be all end all. You might be privy to more if you
listened more than bashed.
yes, just don't drink. that works so well there are all sorts of groups
following that advice. Good thing you are here, I don't think anyone ever
thought of that. just don't drink.... wow.
could we maybe get a bumper sticker made or something? I'd hate to forget
that.
maybe we could shorten it to "Just say no"
don't drink huh? you really should write a book, just don't drink....
"Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
news:3TGnb.1983$DL6.318519@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
> WTF are you talking about??? What is "Rule 62"?? Is that some secret AA
rule
> the rest of us don't know about yet? Do I need to be in AA for X amount of
> years before I am privey to Rule 62?
>
> Sheesh... more arguments for the "One-Step" program...
>
> Step 1: DON'T DRINK!
>
> Enjoy whatever sobriety you may or may not have.
>
> --Mikey--
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bnmli9$135ca9$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> > news:bnas83$j9l$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > >
> > > "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> > > news:bnaim0$um6g2$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > >
> > > > "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:bn9sag$us2$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > > Hi Bob,
> > > > >
> > > > > You've said what I meant to Thank you :^)).
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards
> > > > >
> > > > > JB
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ah, the ironies of Usenet;-) After clicking "send," I was very
> annoyed
> > with
> > > > myself, for expressing my experience so ineptly:)
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > LOL and thank you.
> > >
> > > Bob, I feel you've sensed my frustration at not being always able to
> > express myself as eloquently
> > > as some who post here (yourself, Blue Moon and Moonraker for example).
> >
> > Jeez, JB, no intuition there, you had clearly expressed the notion that
I
> > said what you wanted to say, but didn't.
> >
> > >Your post has stopped me
> > > feeling so bad about myself which I always do when I compare what I
can
> do
> > with people whom I
> > > recognise as being more accomplished.. I know that I ought not to make
> > such comparisons because in
> > > the past I have used this as an excuse to drink. As I've done it
nearly
> > all my life, it's hard to
> > > break the habit :^)).
> >
> > For me, having taken step one, "wanting" to drink is merely an exercise
in
> > nurturing the thoughts of failure. Any "want" is *preceded* by a
fleeting
> > desire. As a result of taking the steps, I have found the power to avoid
> > nurturing unanted desire. Conversely, I have found that appropriate
action
> > can convert appropriate desires into reality.
> >
> > (Although there may be a vast difference between my imagination, and
> > eventual reality. Have just arrived home after a long wanted cruise to a
> > very attractive beach on a tropic island. Due to the deteriorating state
> of
> > my health, and the weather, along with the long arm of bureauracracy, in
> > many respects it was the worst sailing trip of my life. After a night
with
> > waves breaking over the boat at the new govt designated anchorage,
> > regulations were I had to vacate the mooring by 9am, leaving no time to
> dry
> > me and my gear out. I got there though, and that's what I had wanted.
One
> of
> > those adventures best described as a "learning experience":-)
> >
> > >
> > > Incidentally, these days, I recognise that I have a tendency to
wallow
> in
> > self-pity and I'm trying
> > > to stop doing that.
> >
> > I think most of us who take recovery seriously tend to initially try to
be
> > instant saints. Soon after I got sober, while my enthusiasm was only
> > exceeded by the clearing fog of active alcoholism, I was asked to chair
an
> > AA meeting. Given that bars here close at 10pm, I sub consciously
imagined
> > the AA meeting would close at 10pm too. At 9:30 pm (when the meeting was
> > actually supposd to end) I asked a particuly tedious and long winded
> fellow
> > to share. A significent number of long time members silently stood,
tossed
> a
> > few coins on the table, and left the meeting.. I had inadvertantly
> > discovered the AA concept of "resentment time."
> >
> > However I had taken "care" as the operative word of step three to heart.
> > Where I could have been mortified over my inept chairmanship, I merely
> said
> > a brief prayer, "Jeez God, *we* sure stuffed up there, didn't we." As I
> > write, I realise that was probably my first experience of AA's "Rule 62"
> in
> > action. I trust it won't be the last ....... an invaluable experience!
> >
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > >
> > > JB
> >
> > Best regards to U2
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
>
>
Mikey
10-28-2003, 10:47 PM
"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:GnHnb.69469$Go5.1145033@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
> well dipshit.
Oh. I see. Dipshit.
Hmmm...I'm a dipshit...
Did I call you names?
No, I did not.
Would you care to apologize, and we can then continue our debate, or would
you prefer to stick with the name calling?
--Mikey--
Robert McGregor
10-28-2003, 11:17 PM
"Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
news:3TGnb.1983$DL6.318519@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
> WTF are you talking about??? What is "Rule 62"?? Is that some secret AA
rule
> the rest of us don't know about yet? Do I need to be in AA for X amount of
> years before I am privey to Rule 62?
>
> Sheesh... more arguments for the "One-Step" program...
>
> Step 1: DON'T DRINK!
>
Rule 62 being beyond the limitations of your knowledge is an argument *for*
the One-Step program?
Bye.
Bob, who worked the "One-Step" program for about 8 years, before abandoning
it as a viable solution for alcoholism.
Mikey
10-28-2003, 11:32 PM
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bnniep$13e2fm$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
> news:3TGnb.1983$DL6.318519@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
> > WTF are you talking about??? What is "Rule 62"?? Is that some secret AA
> rule
> > the rest of us don't know about yet? Do I need to be in AA for X amount
of
> > years before I am privey to Rule 62?
> >
> > Sheesh... more arguments for the "One-Step" program...
> >
> > Step 1: DON'T DRINK!
> >
>
> Rule 62 being beyond the limitations of your knowledge is an argument
*for*
> the One-Step program?
You are right. That was a silly statement I made. I still want to know what
"Rule 62" is though. Is it some secret handshake or something? I can't find
any reference to "Rule 62" anywhere in the Big Book, or any other AA stuff.
>
> Bye.
>
> Bob, who worked the "One-Step" program for about 8 years, before
abandoning
> it as a viable solution for alcoholism.
Sounds like it DID work for you, for at least 8 years. 8 years is a long
time. Kudos!! But, if AA is what you choose now, that's great too! As long
as it is YOUR choice.
Have a great day, and don't drink!
--Mikey--
>
>
Markus
10-29-2003, 08:47 AM
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bnniep$13e2fm$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Bob, who worked the "One-Step" program for about 8 years, before
abandoning
> it as a viable solution for alcoholism.
Hmmmm. So, you are claiming that a person who doesn't drink alcohol can
still become afflicted with this alcoholism thing?
Also, if someone went eight years without drinking and had claimed to be
working a program--lets say just for example sake a 12 step program--and
then suddenly started drinking again; would it then be safe to say that the
12 step program wasn't a "viable solution for alcoholism"?
-Markus
--
to reply, remove 4u
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you
will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen Roberts
stuart
10-29-2003, 09:18 AM
"Markus" <markusx14u@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:zqQnb.7938$8x2.4462465@newssrv26.news.prodigy .com...
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bnniep$13e2fm$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> > Bob, who worked the "One-Step" program for about 8 years, before
> abandoning
> > it as a viable solution for alcoholism.
>
> Hmmmm. So, you are claiming that a person who doesn't drink alcohol can
> still become afflicted with this alcoholism thing?
>
> Also, if someone went eight years without drinking and had claimed to be
> working a program--lets say just for example sake a 12 step program--and
> then suddenly started drinking again; would it then be safe to say that
the
> 12 step program wasn't a "viable solution for alcoholism"?
No, I would say it is proof of free will. To decide to live life on a
spritual plane or in a drunken state, on that particular day.
The guy you example didn't drink for eight years, right?
*Made a decision* to turn our will and our lives over to the care of god as
we understood him. If this is done continuously we receive a reprieve. If we
*decide* otherwise, we remove the defense mechanism upon we have depended.
>
> -Markus
> --
> to reply, remove 4u
>
> "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
> you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you
> will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen Roberts
>
>
Robert McGregor
10-29-2003, 01:30 PM
"Markus" <markusx14u@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:zqQnb.7938$8x2.4462465@newssrv26.news.prodigy .com...
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bnniep$13e2fm$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> > Bob, who worked the "One-Step" program for about 8 years, before
> abandoning
> > it as a viable solution for alcoholism.
>
> Hmmmm. So, you are claiming that a person who doesn't drink alcohol can
> still become afflicted with this alcoholism thing?
No
>
> Also, if someone went eight years without drinking and had claimed to be
> working a program--lets say just for example sake a 12 step program--and
> then suddenly started drinking again; would it then be safe to say that
the
> 12 step program wasn't a "viable solution for alcoholism"?
I wouldn't say that either.
Bye
Bob
Shawster
10-29-2003, 07:44 PM
"Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
news:2EHnb.3542$DL6.537552@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
>
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:GnHnb.69469$Go5.1145033@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
> > well dipshit.
>
> Oh. I see. Dipshit.
>
> Hmmm...I'm a dipshit...
>
> Did I call you names?
>
> No, I did not.
So? I did.
>
> Would you care to apologize, and we can then continue our debate, or would
> you prefer to stick with the name calling?
If I wanted to apologize, I wouldn't have called you a dipshit. we are not
having a debate. do you usually get what you want by telling people what to
do?
"WTF are you talking about??? What is "Rule 62"?? Is that some secret AA
rule
the rest of us don't know about yet? Do I need to be in AA for X amount of
years before I am privey to Rule 62?
Sheesh... more arguments for the "One-Step" program...
Step 1: DON'T DRINK!
Enjoy whatever sobriety you may or may not have.
--Mikey--"
Not much of a debate.
>
> --Mikey--
>
>
>
Mikey
10-30-2003, 12:23 AM
> > Did I call you names?
> >
> > No, I did not.
>
> So? I did.
So, I guess it is OK for me to call you a dick-smoking faggot (which you and
I both know to be true, don't try to hide behind the anonymity of the
Internet, we both know that you are an admitted homosexual. Not that there
is anything wrong with that...).
Personally, I think it would be rather base of me to let everybody here know
about your admitted sexual habits (the giver of rimmings, receiving of scat,
etc.). but I guess it is OK to do that, since you don't seem to care.
Look, I'm sorry I pissed you off. I know we were supposed to meet later this
week (I think you said it was your turn to be the receiver this week), so
maybe we can just let it go. I mean, come on, It's just a friggin'
newsgroup, nobody knows who we are!!! We can argue our differnces in a
public forum, or we can just hash it out as usual, with you ending up with
your mouth in my lap as per the norm.
Again, I'm sorry I made you mad, lover. I promise to make it up to you
later.
--Mikey--
PS- I hear you got the DR's report back...everything OK, can we breathe
easy, the scare is over?? I told you not to worry so much over such a small
open sore.
"Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message news:972ob.3759$V8.1038447@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
> > > Did I call you names?
> > >
> > > No, I did not.
> >
> > So? I did.
>
> So, I guess it is OK for me to call you a
<snip Mikey's reply>
FWIW, I have a gut feeling that Mikey spoke not a word of truth
JB
JB wrote:
> "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message news:972ob.3759$V8.1038447@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
>
>>>>Did I call you names?
>>>>
>>>>No, I did not.
>>>
>>>So? I did.
>>
>>So, I guess it is OK for me to call you a
>
>
>
> <snip Mikey's reply>
>
> FWIW, I have a gut feeling that Mikey spoke not a word of truth
Really? I have a gut feeling Mikey's a sick little puppy. A useless troll.
Kai
Shawster
10-30-2003, 07:05 AM
"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bnqf00$stm$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
news:972ob.3759$V8.1038447@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
> > > > Did I call you names?
> > > >
> > > > No, I did not.
> > >
> > > So? I did.
> >
> > So, I guess it is OK for me to call you a
>
>
> <snip Mikey's reply>
>
> FWIW, I have a gut feeling that Mikey spoke not a word of truth
>
>
Honestly though JB, it really doesn't matter. You've gone and proven a
point for me though. My sponsor says that "what other people think of me is
none of my business."
The opposite is true, what I think of him is none of his business. It
didn't reflect upon him that I called him a name, it was all on me. Now
after this, it is quite apparent I was right.
So while it is nice that you think I am not using my rectum as a recreation
area (thanks Moonraker) it really is none of my business.
PAX
>
>
>
>
"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:z08ob.80605$Go5.1360934@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bnqf00$stm$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
> news:972ob.3759$V8.1038447@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
> > > > > Did I call you names?
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I did not.
> > > >
> > > > So? I did.
> > >
> > > So, I guess it is OK for me to call you a
> >
> >
> > <snip Mikey's reply>
> >
> > FWIW, I have a gut feeling that Mikey spoke not a word of truth
> >
> >
> Honestly though JB, it really doesn't matter. You've gone and proven a
> point for me though. My sponsor says that "what other people think of me is
> none of my business."
>
> The opposite is true, what I think of him is none of his business. It
> didn't reflect upon him that I called him a name, it was all on me. Now
> after this, it is quite apparent I was right.
>
> So while it is nice that you think I am not using my rectum as a recreation
> area (thanks Moonraker) it really is none of my business.
>
> PAX
>
I hear what you're saying therefore if anyone ever again says anything about you that bothers me,
I'll say something *only* if I think that saying it will make me feel better :^))
>
Best regards
JB
Moonraker
10-30-2003, 07:53 AM
"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bnqf00$stm$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
news:972ob.3759$V8.1038447@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
> > > > Did I call you names?
> > > >
> > > > No, I did not.
> > >
> > > So? I did.
> >
> > So, I guess it is OK for me to call you a
>
>
> <snip Mikey's reply>
>
> FWIW, I have a gut feeling that Mikey spoke not a word of truth
Nor did he speak anything original. That little toad cut and pasted that
reply. I've seen that same thing, and variations thereof, a number of
times around Usenet.
He isn't smart enough to ever have an original thought about anything.
>
> JB
>
>
>
Moonraker
10-30-2003, 07:56 AM
"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:z08ob.80605$Go5.1360934@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
> So while it is nice that you think I am not using my rectum as a
recreation
> area (thanks Moonraker) it really is none of my business.
>
Or, in Mikey's case, his rectum is a "procreation" area. ;>)
Mikey
10-30-2003, 11:46 AM
> > FWIW, I have a gut feeling that Mikey spoke not a word of truth
>
> Nor did he speak anything original. That little toad cut and pasted that
> reply. I've seen that same thing, and variations thereof, a number of
> times around Usenet.
>
> He isn't smart enough to ever have an original thought about anything.
> > JB
You are wrong. I composed that note using all original thought processes.
Also, I am not a little toad. I weigh about 170 pounds. That would make me a
BIG toad, as far as toads go.
As far as comments made by others that I am a "useless troll", well, that's
wrong too. Are you not responding to my posts? Are some of you not getting
so steamed that you are calling me names? Useless troll, I think not.
Of course, I do not think of myself as a troll. I like to think that I am
just tweaking your sensibilities. If it gets you all riled up, maybe I hit
upon a touchy subject with you......
It's interesting that the responses from the AA steppers are so "Non-AA".
Incorrectly constructed sentences to follow:
But, I have a sneaking suspicion that some of the AA members here are
secretly DRINKING!!!
And, truth be known, I feel bad for those members, because I really do know
what it is like to drink yourself to near death, and then attempt to
recover. It's not easy, AA or not.
So, have a nice day all. I'll be around later if you want to call me more
names.
--Mikey--
"Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
news:h8cob.7707$V8.3054740@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
> > > FWIW, I have a gut feeling that Mikey spoke not a word of truth
> >
> > Nor did he speak anything original. That little toad cut and pasted
that
> > reply. I've seen that same thing, and variations thereof, a number of
> > times around Usenet.
> >
> > He isn't smart enough to ever have an original thought about anything.
>
> > > JB
>
> You are wrong. I composed that note using all original thought processes.
>
> Also, I am not a little toad. I weigh about 170 pounds. That would make me
a
> BIG toad, as far as toads go.
>
> As far as comments made by others that I am a "useless troll", well,
that's
> wrong too. Are you not responding to my posts? Are some of you not getting
> so steamed that you are calling me names? Useless troll, I think not.
>
> Of course, I do not think of myself as a troll. I like to think that I am
> just tweaking your sensibilities. If it gets you all riled up, maybe I hit
> upon a touchy subject with you......
>
> It's interesting that the responses from the AA steppers are so "Non-AA".
>
> Incorrectly constructed sentences to follow:
>
> But, I have a sneaking suspicion that some of the AA members here are
> secretly DRINKING!!!
>
> And, truth be known, I feel bad for those members, because I really do
know
> what it is like to drink yourself to near death, and then attempt to
> recover. It's not easy, AA or not.
>
> So, have a nice day all. I'll be around later if you want to call me more
> names.
>
> --Mikey--
>
>
Hi Mikey.. I have been reading and thought your name was Mickey. I was going
to call you Mickey Mouse. I hate to wear my reading glasses..;)
Welcome to the group.
Gail
Mikey
10-30-2003, 07:55 PM
"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vq3absc5idusc5@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Hi Mikey.. I have been reading and thought your name was Mickey. I was
going
> to call you Mickey Mouse. I hate to wear my reading glasses..;)
> Welcome to the group.
> Gail
Thank you Gail.
--Mickey Mouse--
Shawster
10-30-2003, 10:04 PM
"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bnr56f$40r$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:z08ob.80605$Go5.1360934@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
> >
> > "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> > news:bnqf00$stm$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > >
> > > "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
> > news:972ob.3759$V8.1038447@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
> > > > > > Did I call you names?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No, I did not.
> > > > >
> > > > > So? I did.
> > > >
> > > > So, I guess it is OK for me to call you a
> > >
> > >
> > > <snip Mikey's reply>
> > >
> > > FWIW, I have a gut feeling that Mikey spoke not a word of truth
> > >
> > >
> > Honestly though JB, it really doesn't matter. You've gone and proven a
> > point for me though. My sponsor says that "what other people think of
me is
> > none of my business."
> >
> > The opposite is true, what I think of him is none of his business. It
> > didn't reflect upon him that I called him a name, it was all on me. Now
> > after this, it is quite apparent I was right.
> >
> > So while it is nice that you think I am not using my rectum as a
recreation
> > area (thanks Moonraker) it really is none of my business.
> >
> > PAX
> >
> I hear what you're saying therefore if anyone ever again says anything
about you that bothers me,
> I'll say something *only* if I think that saying it will make me feel
better :^))
no, if it bothers you, feel free to speak up. And if I say something that
bothers you, feel free to jump down my throat.
but please don't ever feel the need to defend me from someone, because you
think MY feelings are hurt.
but I do appreciate kind words. 8^)
> >
> Best regards
>
> JB
>
>
>
Mikey
10-30-2003, 10:20 PM
> > I hear what you're saying therefore if anyone ever again says anything
> about you that bothers me,
> > I'll say something *only* if I think that saying it will make me feel
> better :^))
>
> no, if it bothers you, feel free to speak up. And if I say something that
> bothers you, feel free to jump down my throat.
>
>
> but please don't ever feel the need to defend me from someone, because you
> think MY feelings are hurt.
>
> but I do appreciate kind words. 8^)
>
>
> > >
> > Best regards
> >
> > JB
My goodness! Just how DEEP of a relationship are you two developing here?
Now, let's just see which of you comes to the others rescue after this
innocuous post.
Kiss, kiss.
--Mikey--
"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Y5uob.84575$Go5.1525306@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
>
> "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote in message
> news:6qlob.795$vX.405528@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net.. .
> > > > I hear what you're saying therefore if anyone ever again says anything
> > > about you that bothers me,
> > > > I'll say something *only* if I think that saying it will make me feel
> > > better :^))
> > >
> > > no, if it bothers you, feel free to speak up. And if I say something
> that
> > > bothers you, feel free to jump down my throat.
> > >
> > >
> > > but please don't ever feel the need to defend me from someone, because
> you
> > > think MY feelings are hurt.
> > >
> > > but I do appreciate kind words. 8^)
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > Best regards
> > > >
> > > > JB
> >
> > My goodness! Just how DEEP of a relationship are you two developing here?
>
> you are just full of resentment aren't you? keep working that first step.
>
> >
> > Now, let's just see which of you comes to the others rescue after this
> > innocuous post.
>
> just because you say it is does not make it so.
>
> >
> > Kiss, kiss.
> >
> > --Mikey--
>
> Hey JB, remember when you first got here, and people said all sorts of
> "mean" things to you? then as you came to believe that you could be
> restored to sanity, and went to a meeting you realized that we had your best
> interests in heart....
>
> That's pretty much what is going on here. Someday mikey will find out.
> maybe
> >
Hi Shaw,
I was not going to reply to Mikey's post but as you have done so, so, will I.
Mikey,
If you or anyone else here tells what I think are lies about people on this NG and I decide to say
that l think lies are being told, then I will. I have no control over how people respond to what I
say. Your response made me laugh. Thanks.
JB
Blue Moon
10-31-2003, 06:47 PM
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:32:49 GMT, "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote:
>I still want to know what
>"Rule 62" is though. Is it some secret handshake or something? I can't find
>any reference to "Rule 62" anywhere in the Big Book, or any other AA stuff.
Check out the 4th Tradition in the 12x12. Rule 62: Don't take
yourself too damn seriously.
--
Blue Moon
Mikey
10-31-2003, 07:57 PM
> Mikey,
>
> If you or anyone else here tells what I think are lies about people on
this NG and I decide to say
> that l think lies are being told, then I will. I have no control over how
people respond to what I
> say. Your response made me laugh. Thanks.
>
> JB
>
You're welcome, JB. Laughter is good!
--Mikey--
Mikey
10-31-2003, 07:57 PM
Thanks, Blue Moon.
"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:583aff2611bfdf027086c58e0ed3c729@news.teranew s.com...
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:32:49 GMT, "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote:
>
> >I still want to know what
> >"Rule 62" is though. Is it some secret handshake or something? I can't
find
> >any reference to "Rule 62" anywhere in the Big Book, or any other AA
stuff.
>
> Check out the 4th Tradition in the 12x12. Rule 62: Don't take
> yourself too damn seriously.
>
> --
> Blue Moon
"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:583aff2611bfdf027086c58e0ed3c729@news.teranew s.com...
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:32:49 GMT, "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote:
>
> >I still want to know what
> >"Rule 62" is though. Is it some secret handshake or something? I can't find
> >any reference to "Rule 62" anywhere in the Big Book, or any other AA stuff.
>
> Check out the 4th Tradition in the 12x12. Rule 62: Don't take
> yourself too damn seriously.
>
> --
> Blue Moon
Now that I know what Rule 62 is, I aim to observe it every day :^))
Thanks Blue
JB
"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bo03sj$llb$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> "Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:583aff2611bfdf027086c58e0ed3c729@news.teranew s.com...
> > On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:32:49 GMT, "Mikey" <gubba@hobo.net> wrote:
> >
> > >I still want to know what
> > >"Rule 62" is though. Is it some secret handshake or something? I can't
find
> > >any reference to "Rule 62" anywhere in the Big Book, or any other AA
stuff.
> >
> > Check out the 4th Tradition in the 12x12. Rule 62: Don't take
> > yourself too damn seriously.
> >
> > --
> > Blue Moon
>
> Now that I know what Rule 62 is, I aim to observe it every day :^))
>
> Thanks Blue
>
> JB
>
>
You are so full of crap, JB. You are not who or what you say you are. I have
no earthly idea as to what and why you are here, except that you are a troll
or one of the regulars posing as a person full of crap..
Hell NO, I am not above any of you, but I know I am not beneath any of you,
either. LMAO!
Have a great whatever, (morning, afternoon, evening)
Gail
Robert McGregor
11-01-2003, 03:14 PM
"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vq885nofmki209@corp.supernews.com...
>
> You are so full of crap, JB. You are not who or what you say you are. I
have
> no earthly idea as to what and why you are here, except that you are a
troll
> or one of the regulars posing as a person full of crap..
> Hell NO, I am not above any of you, but I know I am not beneath any of
you,
> either. LMAO!
"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vq6qcm236uvf34@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I am grateful I finally have more going for me than arguing and
> calling people names 24/7.
>
> Question is, does she deserve the abuse? Do you or I deserve abuse? I
don't
> think so!
> >
"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:vq885nofmki209@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bo03sj$llb$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
<snip>
> > Now that I know what Rule 62 is, I aim to observe it every day :^))
> >
> > Thanks Blue
> >
> > JB
> >
>
> You are so full of crap, JB. You are not who or what you say you are. I have
> no earthly idea as to what and why you are here, except that you are a troll
> or one of the regulars posing as a person full of crap..
> Hell NO, I am not above any of you, but I know I am not beneath any of you,
> either. LMAO!
> Have a great whatever, (morning, afternoon, evening)
> Gail
LOL. People on this NG have advised me not to care what anyone thinks of me. At this moment, I'm
taking their advice . I'm also going to put it on record that you know more about me than most of
them do.
You do so because you and I corresponded by private e:mail for a short time. You sent me e:mails
containing rude jokes, something entitled "Keep your girlfriends" and links to websites which you
thought I might find helpful. You also told me a bit about yourself and sent me a photo of a lady
with two young children. You told me that it was you in the photo with two of your grandchildren.
I
have no reason to believe that what you've told me about yourself is not true nor that the photo
you sent me is not you. I gave you my real name and some background info and I don't think I ever
failed to thank you when you sent me info that you thought might be help my recovery.
Before I go, I'd like you know that when I wish you well, I *always* truly mean it.
Wishing you well.
JB .
PS: You've also seen a photo of me.
rosie read and post
11-01-2003, 08:20 PM
JB,
you just don't get it do you...............................
you are who you say you are, and its NEVER been really believable!
--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie
things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things
turn
out.
........................john wooden
Blue Moon
11-01-2003, 09:35 PM
On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:08:06 -0600, "Gail"
<serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>You are so full of crap, JB.
I was certainly full of crap in early recovery, which is precisely why
I needed the program to help straighten me out. The crap began to
lift fairly quickly, but that crap had built up over many years
therefore it doesn't simply wash away overnight.
So is this statement not true of any alcoholic who's fairly recently
quit drinking? Is it also not true of any alcoholic who's quit for a
few years yet not put too much effort on self to change other than
just not drinking?
Crap still comes back from time to time, so I'm rarely, if ever,
entirely free of some crap.
But I can see absolutely no need for anyone else to tell me I'm full
of crap. What's helpful in that? I could walk up to almost anyone in
an AA meeting and quite honestly declare "you're full of crap", but
what's the use? What possible purpose does it serve?
But I DO know this .... if you have a problem with anyone else, guess
whose problem that is.... Sounds like you need to add JB to your 4th
Step.
>You are not who or what you say you are.
On what basis do you make this assertion?
Anyway, who is? I don't really know you or anyone else here, and you
don't really know me either. You might not be called "Gail" at all,
or Robert might not be "Robert".
The difference being, it doesn't really bother me either way. My real
name certainly contains neither "Blue" nor "Moon", so I'm certainly
not who I say I am. Does that matter?
If anyone were to tell me "you're not alcoholic" I'd be well within my
rights to tell them to mind their own business, perhaps even with an
added expletive for good measure.
--
Blue Moon
Blue Moon
11-01-2003, 09:36 PM
On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:20:02 -0600, "rosie read and post"
<readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote:
>you are who you say you are, and its NEVER been really believable!
Is it my imagination, or does that statement make no sense?
--
Blue Moon
Moonraker
11-01-2003, 09:58 PM
"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c91ea04efe98d96c5f8e1f82ee1b69d2@news.teranew s.com...
> On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:20:02 -0600, "rosie read and post"
> <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >you are who you say you are, and its NEVER been really believable!
>
> Is it my imagination, or does that statement make no sense?
>
> --
> Blue Moon
What would make THIS one any different from the other 38,000?
"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c91ea04efe98d96c5f8e1f82ee1b69d2@news.teranew s.com...
> On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:20:02 -0600, "rosie read and post"
> <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >you are who you say you are, and its NEVER been really believable!
>
> Is it my imagination, or does that statement make no sense?
>
> --
> Blue Moon
Makes perfect sense to me. Only time will tell and only JB knows for sure if
the statement is correct or not. ;) In reverse, how does JB know that any
of us are for real. This is Usenet!!! Entertainment even?
Blue, I am not questioning yours or anyone else's sobriety or quality of
sobriety here. I merely stated my opinion that I feel that JB is a fake.
That is it! So, please don't question my sobriety or tell me how to work the
steps. I have and do work the steps in my daily life. That does not mean
that I have to believe some or all the CRAP that JB is posting. Hell, this
is Usenet!!! I don't and am not questioning how you or anyone else is
staying sober. All I know is that I am sober and do not have a desire to
pick up a drink. I must be doing something right...;) That really is all
that matters to me. I will do anything for those who want help and even for
those who don't. I do not feel that I have to think or believe that JB is
for real just because you do, either. I merely stated my OPINION. ;) Robert
taught me that one a long time ago.
LMAO!
Best,
Gail
"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:xOZob.89530$%C5.17976@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> JB,
> you just don't get it do you...............................
> you are who you say you are, and its NEVER been really believable!
>
> --
> read and post daily, it works!
> rosie
" I am responsible...........
When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA always to be there. And for
that I am responsible"
Declaration of 30th Anniversary, International Convention 1965
If you have been with AA for 21 years, you should be familiar with the above :^))
Yours
JB
rosie read and post
11-02-2003, 08:57 AM
>
> " I am responsible...........
>
> When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA
always to be there. And for
> that I am responsible"
>
> Declaration of 30th Anniversary, International Convention 1965
oh, i certainly am............................without the hand of AA
being there for me, i would no doubt be dead.
one day at a time, i will be eternally grateful.
that does not, however explain you, your behavior, and your anonymous
presence here in ARAA.
Robert McGregor
11-02-2003, 09:17 AM
"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:RX8pb.97754$832.10667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> >
> > " I am responsible...........
> >
> > When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA
> always to be there. And for
> > that I am responsible"
> >
> > Declaration of 30th Anniversary, International Convention 1965
>
>
>
> oh, i certainly am............................without the hand of AA
> being there for me, i would no doubt be dead.
> one day at a time, i will be eternally grateful.
"rosie readandpost" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:K5asa.61483$YE2.1113028@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> treatment of my depression, saved my life!
> continued attendance at AA meetings, service work, and daily diligence
with my 11th step, improved the QUALITY the life
> that has been saved!
"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:RX8pb.97754$832.10667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> >
> > " I am responsible...........
> >
> > When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA
> always to be there. And for
> > that I am responsible"
> >
> > Declaration of 30th Anniversary, International Convention 1965
>
>
>
> oh, i certainly am............................without the hand of AA
> being there for me, i would no doubt be dead.
> one day at a time, i will be eternally grateful.
>
> that does not, however explain you, your behavior, and your anonymous
> presence here in ARAA.
If you want control over an NG, set up a Yahoo group :^))
Yours
JB
>
>
rosie read and post
11-02-2003, 10:23 AM
bob,
did you forget my story?
i've explained this to you before...............maybe i should go slower
due to your apparent learning disorder?
i was sober for five years, before the treatment of
depression became necessary.
prior to 1982, my chosen form of suicide (slowly) was
alcohol!
ok hon?
--
rosie
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bo3755$1804tr$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:RX8pb.97754$832.10667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > >
> > > " I am responsible...........
> > >
> > > When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA
> > always to be there. And for
> > > that I am responsible"
> > >
> > > Declaration of 30th Anniversary, International Convention 1965
> >
> >
> >
> > oh, i certainly am............................without the hand of AA
> > being there for me, i would no doubt be dead.
> > one day at a time, i will be eternally grateful.
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:K5asa.61483$YE2.1113028@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> >
> > treatment of my depression, saved my life!
> > continued attendance at AA meetings, service work, and daily
diligence
> with my 11th step, improved the QUALITY the life
> > that has been saved!
>
>
rosie read and post
11-02-2003, 10:23 AM
>
> If you want control over an NG, set up a Yahoo group :^))
>
ROTFLMAO!
Robert McGregor
11-02-2003, 10:32 AM
"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:wP7pb.96485$%C5.49486@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> November 2, 2003
>
> Daily Reflections
>
> KEEPING OPTIMISM AFLOAT
>
> The other Steps can keep most of us sober and somehow
> functioning. But Step Eleven
> can keep us growing. . . .
> THE LANGUAGE OF THE HEART, p. 240
>
> A sober alcoholic finds it much easier to be optimistic about
> life. Optimism is the natural
> result of my finding myself gradually able to make the best,
> rather than the worst, of each
> situation. As my physical sobriety continues, I come out of
> the fog, gain a clearer
> perspective and am better able to determine what courses of
> action to take. As vital as
> physical sobriety is, I can achieve a greater potential for
> myself by developing an
> ever-increasing willingness to avail myself of the guidance
> and direction of a Higher
> Power. My ability to do so comes from my learning--and
> practicing--the principles of the
> A.A. program. The melding of my physical and spiritual
> sobriety produces the substance
> of a more positive life.
>
> ************************************************** *********
>
>
"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Gbapb.98662$832.36992@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> bob,
> did you forget my story?
> i've explained this to you before...............maybe i should go slower
> due to your apparent learning disorder?
>
>
>
>
> i was sober for five years, before the treatment of
> depression became necessary.
> prior to 1982, my chosen form of suicide (slowly) was
> alcohol!
>
> ok hon?
>
> --
>
> rosie
>
>
>
>
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bo3755$1804tr$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:RX8pb.97754$832.10667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > " I am responsible...........
> > > >
> > > > When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA
> > > always to be there. And for
> > > > that I am responsible"
> > > >
> > > > Declaration of 30th Anniversary, International Convention 1965
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > oh, i certainly am............................without the hand of AA
> > > being there for me, i would no doubt be dead.
> > > one day at a time, i will be eternally grateful.
> >
> > "rosie readandpost" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:K5asa.61483$YE2.1113028@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > treatment of my depression, saved my life!
> > > continued attendance at AA meetings, service work, and daily
> diligence
> > with my 11th step, improved the QUALITY the life
> > > that has been saved!
> >
> >
>
>
Moonraker
11-02-2003, 10:44 AM
"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kcapb.98674$832.88331@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> >
> > If you want control over an NG, set up a Yahoo group :^))
> >
>
>
> ROTFLMAO!
>
>
Actually, that's a great suggestion, Rosie. Then you wouldn't have to
endure the idiots and morons and good-old-boys and conservative rednecks and
all the other perjoratives that you regularly call those who point out your
hypocricy and lies.
You can control who posts, and what they say. Your life will just be a bowl
of cherries. How 'bout it? You can prescribe all the AD's you want and
do on-line diagnosises to your hearts' content. You will be SOMEBODY!!!!!!!
Hell, I'll even help you .
rosie read and post
11-02-2003, 10:45 AM
"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:7lapb.22993$SV2.22556@bignews3.bellsouth.net. ..
> >
> >
> Actually, that's a great suggestion, Rosie. Then you wouldn't have
to
> endure the idiots and morons and good-old-boys and conservative
rednecks and
> all the other perjoratives that you regularly call those who point out
your
> hypocricy and lies.
thanks for your concern moonie hon, but there is no "endurance" involved
being in ARAA.
there are just a few of you "good old boys" and you are a regular source
of amusement for a lot of us!
thanks!
((((((((((((((((((((((moonie)))))))))))))))))))))) )
"Kai" <soberon@nospamo.luukku.com> wrote in message news:bo3j3n$ov4$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> rosie read and post wrote:
> >
> > oh, i certainly am............................without the hand of AA
> > being there for me, i would no doubt be dead.
> > one day at a time, i will be eternally grateful.
> >
> > that does not, however explain you, your behavior, and your anonymous
> > presence here in ARAA.
>
> Umm, you got something against someone with an 'anonymous presence
> here in ARAA'?
>
> What's wrong with JB's behaviour? Where do you get this insight into
> her being a 'fake' from?
>
> Kai
Her Higher Power :^))
JB
>
rosie read and post wrote:
>
> oh, i certainly am............................without the hand of AA
> being there for me, i would no doubt be dead.
> one day at a time, i will be eternally grateful.
>
> that does not, however explain you, your behavior, and your anonymous
> presence here in ARAA.
Umm, you got something against someone with an 'anonymous presence
here in ARAA'?
What's wrong with JB's behaviour? Where do you get this insight into
her being a 'fake' from?
Kai
rosie read and post
11-02-2003, 12:50 PM
> What's wrong with JB's behaviour? Where do you get this insight into
> her being a 'fake' from?
>
> Kai
>
kai,
he/she isn't whom he/she wants to you believe he/she
is......................
rosie read and post wrote:
>>What's wrong with JB's behaviour? Where do you get this insight into
>>her being a 'fake' from?
>>
>>Kai
>>
>
>
> kai,
> he/she isn't whom he/she wants to you believe he/she
> is......................
Right. So if I ask you why do you think she's a fake, you answer it by
saying you think she's a fake?
Kai
"Kai" <soberon@nospamo.luukku.com> wrote in message news:bo3k8g$s7e$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> rosie read and post wrote:
> > kai,
> > he/she isn't whom he/she wants to you believe he/she
> > is......................
>
> Right. So if I ask you why do you think she's a fake, you answer it by
> saying you think she's a fake?
>
> Kai
Kai, if Rosie tells you that JB is not my real name, she will be telling the truth.
JB
...
JB wrote:
> "Kai" <soberon@nospamo.luukku.com> wrote in message news:bo3k8g$s7e$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
>
>>rosie read and post wrote:
>
>
>>>kai,
>>>he/she isn't whom he/she wants to you believe he/she
>>>is......................
>>
>>Right. So if I ask you why do you think she's a fake, you answer it by
>>saying you think she's a fake?
>>
>>Kai
>
>
> Kai, if Rosie tells you that JB is not my real name, she will be telling the truth.
So? Her name is not rosiereadandpost. I don't think anyone would
accuse others of being 'fake' for using a nic in the Usenet, but of
pretending to be something different than one really is.
Kai
"Kai" <soberon@nospamo.luukku.com> wrote in message news:bo3mvl$2uv$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> JB wrote:
>
> > "Kai" <soberon@nospamo.luukku.com> wrote in message news:bo3k8g$s7e$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
JB wrote:
> > Kai, if Rosie tells you that JB is not my real name, she will be telling the truth.
>
> So? Her name is not rosiereadandpost. I don't think anyone would
> accuse others of being 'fake' for using a nic in the Usenet, but of
> pretending to be something different than one really is.
>
> Kai
You may be right :^))
JB
Moonraker
11-02-2003, 06:04 PM
"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Ilcpb.100490$832.93786@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > What's wrong with JB's behaviour? Where do you get this insight into
> > her being a 'fake' from?
> >
> > Kai
> >
>
> kai,
> he/she isn't whom he/she wants to you believe he/she
> is......................
>
>
Well, then.....just WHO is JB? You (and Gail) seem to have this insight
into who this poster is? How 'bout letting all the rest of us in on the
secret and lay out this nefarious scheme that appears to be defrauding all
of us.
Maybe we ought to sic AgentOrange on this? Hell, he may be able to "prove"
that JB is really Frank Buchman or some other cultist.
"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:vq885nofmki209@corp.supernews.com...
<snip>
> You are so full of crap, JB. You are not who or what you say you are. I have
> no earthly idea as to what and why you are here, except that you are a troll
> or one of the regulars posing as a person full of crap..
<snip>
From: Gail \(GO Tennessee TITANS!\) (neversaynever@imight.com)
Subject: Re: Ping Blackout
View: Complete Thread (320 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism
Date: 2003-09-08 21:08:02 PST
"catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:bjirn3$5se$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Blue Moon" <mfoco_uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3c5aa40ca7848328376cbcda2cc16813@news.teranew s.com...
> > On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 23:36:34 -0500, "Gail"
> > <serenity6850_2000@nospamoyahoo.com> wrote:
> > >I honestly think that JB is (J)ust (B)luffing us. JB has come farther
> > >in two months than I did in 20 years. Something just AIN'T right here.
> >
> > I'm not aware of JB's drinking history, but my guess is that some of
> > the recovery seed was planted prior to quitting drinking.
>
>
> Hi Blue,
>
> You are right. When I gave up drinking in June this year, it was because I could see where booze
> was again leading me.
>
> I first gave up drinking in the mid 1990's. At that time I had hit rock bottom. Thanks to my GP,
a
> psychiatric counsellor and my own willpower, I stayed off booze until 2002.. Then, one evening, I
> thought that after being able to control my drinking for so long, there was *no way* that *I would
> ever again lose control* of my drinking. So, I poured myself a mug of wine. It was a stupid
thing
> to do. Within a few months, I was drinking at least half a bottle of wine per night and at least
> three x 1 litre bottles of a very sickly, creamy liqueur drink each week. I would add sherry and
> maybe some neat vodka to this mix if my day had gone badly. From time to time I would go and see
my
> doctor and complain about feeling physically unwell and depressed. I would always mention my
> drinking and he would always advise me to stop. For months I ignored his advice and for months I
> continued to go downhill both physically and mentally. When, eventually, I saw the sense in not
> continuing to drink I was not at the same low point as I was when I decided to stop drinking in
the
> 1990's.
>
> I think there are three reasons why I have made so much progress in three months. Firstly,
because
> I gave up drinking long before the booze affected me as badly as it had done when I had decided to
> stop drinking in the 1990's Secondly, I have at last accepted the fact that I am an alcoholic
and
> therefore know in both my head and heart that I shall never again be able to drink alcohol. At
this
> time, that makes me sad. Finally, each day I have worked really hard to ensure that I haven't
> allowed myself drink and I have also done something that I hope will help me not to drink tomorrow
> and every day thereafter.
>
> Yours
>
> JB
> <snip>
Thanks for sharing that, JB.
Best,
Gail
rosie read and post
11-03-2003, 07:48 AM
JB,
GOOGLING is your answer?
speaks for itself......................
Moonraker
11-03-2003, 07:55 AM
"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41tpb.105665$832.19366@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> JB,
> GOOGLING is your answer?
>
> speaks for itself......................
>
>
If it speaks for itself.......why did you feel compelled to comment?
How many times have you, yourself, "ordered" somebody on this group to
Google themselves?
rosie read and post
11-03-2003, 08:32 AM
"ordered?"
interesting interpretation moonie!
LOL!
"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%6tpb.19010$BX.7279@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> >
>
>
> How many times have you, yourself, "ordered" somebody on this group
to
> Google themselves?
>
>
"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41tpb.105665$832.19366@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> JB,
> GOOGLING is your answer?
>
> speaks for itself......................
I have no doubt that what what I've done says to me could well be different to what what I've done
says to you :^))
JB
"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%Ftpb.105667$832.28726@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> "ordered?"
>
> interesting interpretation moonie!
> LOL!
From: rosie readandpost (readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Should we always forgive ?
View: Complete Thread (45 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism
Date: 2003-07-07 05:32:20 PST
> >
> You flatter yourself to think that any of the drivel you post is worthy of a
> second thought, muchless a fixation.
ROTFLMAO!
then perhaps you ought to stop posting to EACH AND EVERYONE of my comments!
google yourself if you need proof....................
From: rosie readandpost (readandpostREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Ping Blackout
View: Complete Thread (320 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism
Date: 2003-09-06 15:10:51 PST
> > that would require sobriety on his part.........................
> > BIG ASSUMPTION!
>
> That's about the third time you've made some allegation about my sobriety.
> That'd be thin ice you are treading on.
>
>
you give me ABSOLUTELY no reason to believe that you even know what sobriety is!
google yourself, and look at the posts that you are and have been making.
you insult and degrade others, on a regular basis.
you come off in here like a common, ordinary drunk........................
if your able to be honest with yourself, you will see what i mean.
(but i don't expect that you can!)
>
<snip>
(End of google search)
ROFLMAO
JB
"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message news:bo3psq$svf$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Kai" <soberon@nospamo.luukku.com> wrote in message news:bo3mvl$2uv$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> > JB wrote:
> >
> > > "Kai" <soberon@nospamo.luukku.com> wrote in message
news:bo3k8g$s7e$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> JB wrote:
>
> > > Kai, if Rosie tells you that JB is not my real name, she will be telling the truth.
> >
> > So? Her name is not rosiereadandpost. I don't think anyone would
> > accuse others of being 'fake' for using a nic in the Usenet, but of
> > pretending to be something different than one really is.
> >
> > Kai
>
> You may be right :^))
>
> JB
>
PS:
From: rosie@readandpost (readandpostREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: lurk, lurk, cowboy
View: Complete Thread (79 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet.low-carb
Date: 1999/09/25
>Cowboy, whom you
>hate, was man enough to admit his errors and apologize for his trollish
>behavior. Obviously, you could learn a great deal from him.
>
>>
i do believe that i HAVE apologised to anyone that i have hurt!
i do believe that i HAVE attempted to stay on topic in all the newsgroups
that i frequent!
i do believe that you are a trouble maker, along with a few very unhappy
folks, and that interrupts the support in
here....................................
i do believe that you hide behind your mutiple anonymous titles!
i do believe that i will stop answering any poster, who remains anonymous!
(folks who believe in something are willing to put their REAL name behind
it)
rosie
From: readandpost rosie (readandpostNOT@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: OT: KKK FAQ
View: Complete Thread (29 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.fashion
Date: 2001-05-30 05:11:22 PST
there are those in here, who INSIST on keeping this crap going............
they stay anonymous and they are an embarrassment to ASD, IMO!
--
read and post,
rosie
=======================
If you find a posting or message from myself
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please
ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting,
complain to me and I will demonstrate.
(End of google search)
JB.
rosie read and post
11-03-2003, 12:23 PM
> (End of google search)
>
> JB.
>
sure you are!
Shawster
11-03-2003, 03:09 PM
there you go with those altered posts again
"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bo5uje$tep$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:%Ftpb.105667$832.28726@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > "ordered?"
> >
> > interesting interpretation moonie!
> > LOL!
>
> From: rosie readandpost (readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com)
> Subject: Re: Should we always forgive ?
> View: Complete Thread (45 articles)
> Original Format
> Newsgroups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism
> Date: 2003-07-07 05:32:20 PST
> > >
> > You flatter yourself to think that any of the drivel you post is worthy
of a
> > second thought, muchless a fixation.
>
> ROTFLMAO!
>
> then perhaps you ought to stop posting to EACH AND EVERYONE of my
comments!
> google yourself if you need proof....................
>
>
> From: rosie readandpost (readandpostREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com)
> Subject: Re: Ping Blackout
> View: Complete Thread (320 articles)
> Original Format
> Newsgroups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism
> Date: 2003-09-06 15:10:51 PST
>
>
> > > that would require sobriety on his part.........................
> > > BIG ASSUMPTION!
> >
> > That's about the third time you've made some allegation about my
sobriety.
> > That'd be thin ice you are treading on.
> >
> >
> you give me ABSOLUTELY no reason to believe that you even know what
sobriety is!
> google yourself, and look at the posts that you are and have been making.
> you insult and degrade others, on a regular basis.
> you come off in here like a common, ordinary drunk........................
> if your able to be honest with yourself, you will see what i mean.
> (but i don't expect that you can!)
> >
> <snip>
>
> (End of google search)
>
> ROFLMAO
>
> JB
>
>
>
>
>
>
Shawster
11-03-2003, 03:10 PM
"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bo5r3t$8et$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:41tpb.105665$832.19366@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > JB,
> > GOOGLING is your answer?
> >
> > speaks for itself......................
>
> I have no doubt that what what I've done says to me could well be
different to what what I've done
> says to you :^))
>
What it says is that JB looks at the facts and not what someone else wants
her to think.
Good job, you'll make a fine good ol boy
> JB
>
>
>
rosie read and post
11-03-2003, 03:26 PM
> Good job, you'll make a fine good ol boy
>
he already is one................................
"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Yuzpb.117053$Go5.1991310@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
>
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:bo5r3t$8et$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
<sniip
> What it says is that JB looks at the facts and not what someone else wants
> her to think.
>
> Good job, you'll make a fine good ol boy
Hon, will you pay for the sex change ? :^))
Best regards
JB
"rosie read and post" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1Kzpb.120779$pg7.100529@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> > Good job, you'll make a fine good ol boy
> >
>
>
> he already is one................................
Great :^))
JB
Moonraker
11-03-2003, 04:11 PM
"rosie read and post" <readandpostTAKEOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%Ftpb.105667$832.28726@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> "ordered?"
>
> interesting interpretation moonie!
> LOL!
>
When you write "google yourself", in the imperative tense, it's an order.
Certainly not a suggestion.
Robert McGregor
11-03-2003, 04:29 PM
"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:bo6k8l$6c9$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:Yuzpb.117053$Go5.1991310@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
> >
> > "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> > news:bo5r3t$8et$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> <sniip
>
> > What it says is that JB looks at the facts and not what someone else
wants
> > her to think.
> >
> > Good job, you'll make a fine good ol boy
>
> Hon, will you pay for the sex change ? :^))
>
> Best regards
>
> JB
Not to worry, seems Rosie's that enamoured of her own bullshit, she actually
believes only those with balls could dispute it.
Bob
Shawster
11-03-2003, 09:46 PM
"rosie read and post" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1Kzpb.120779$pg7.100529@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> > Good job, you'll make a fine good ol boy
> >
>
>
> he already is one................................
>
>
> now does that look like venom silly boy?
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