Evey
10-15-2003, 09:50 PM
Thank you for this. I really enjoy what you share. This is a good recovery
message. It's appreciated.Talk to you Later........Evey
"Bobby L." <BobbyL2000nospam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:9FHgb.54620$k17.3152@bignews5.bellsouth.net.. .
> > > Am I right in thinking that you are saying that there is only one God
?
> If so and you believe in
> > > him, do you also believe that he can help each and every one of us ?
If
> so, in what ways ?
>
>
> Well yes -- there it is. There is no tap dancing around it. AA is a
> spiritually based program that is based a learned faith in a higher power
> aka God in order to achieve the goals in the manner the program was
intended
> to be practiced. Yes, it initially and still to this day provides for a
> wide interpretation of "God," however, a God concept is still central to
the
> program. We can call it Yahweh, or Jehovah, or the Great Spirit, or the
> Great Oneness or the Goddess or just plain God, but it is still there.
> There are many who will tell you they have gotten through the steps and
> gotten sober without the "required" faith in higher power, (I don't buy
the
> doorknob scenario either). These frequent occurrences do not alter the
> program as a whole, simply the program for that individual. After all,
we
> are not just autonomous in matters not affecting other groups, we are also
> autonomous in matters not affecting other alcoholics.
>
> My faith and belief in my God guides me and directs me down a path that
has
> led to a spiritual enlightenment. Does that mean I am ready for
sainthood?
> Hardly! I do not believe in the "sainthood" concept anyway. I have not
> experienced a major epiphany or public miracles. What I have found in
> following this concept I have formed is a spiritual center that allows me
to
> live life on life's terms. I have learned to accept those things I cannot
> change -- I have learned that given enough courage and determination there
> are things in my life I can change if necessary -- if I am willing to take
> the necessary action. I have learned if I am not willing to take the
action
> then I need to stop whining about whatever it is I do not like. I have
> learned to tell the difference between the two. I have learned not to
blame
> others for my own failures, deficiencies and behaviors. I have stopped
> being the victim of my life and started being a participant therein. That
> is enlightenment I have found.
>
> I do believe there is a God who can and will guide and direct us all, but
> only if we ask and then are willing to follow the direction provided. It
is
> probably appropriate and necessary at this point to identify a MAJOR point
> of this program. My God of My Understanding can do nothing for you -- any
> of you. I have come to learn that only your God can do for you what my
God
> has done for me. I cannot find your God for you. I cannot provide you my
> understanding of your God. That is a bridge you have to cross -- or not.
> If you cross that bridge I can show you the way I found my God -- I can
show
> you the things I did to come to a clearer understanding of my God. It may
> help, but it may not -- after all, it's your God and your understanding.
>
> I have yet to see anyone's God cut the grass for them or pay the bills for
> them, or correct their mistakes. I have seen both my God and many other's
> God show them the way to get these things and many others done.
>
> So to skip to the head of the arguement.... Is AA a God based program?
YOU
> BET YOUR ASS IT IS -- Get over it! You get to choose the God (or Higher
> Power if you prefer), but YES, it is a God based program. We can color
it
> up with ambiguous language and hide behind semantics -- but it is still a
> "faith in God" program. Many swear they cannot or will not develop faith
in
> any higher power, but I believe this is more due a misunderstanding of
> faith. Faith is just hope with a track record -- but if you have no hope,
> then no, it is not likely you will ever develop any faith in anything.
> Faith is a lot like Math -- the more you practice it, the simpler it gets.
>
> Nobody with any experience will tell you AA is the only way. It simply
may
> have been the only way for that person. If you cannot do the God thing,
> then no big deal -- find another way to get sober. It's that simple.
>
> JB, The real question should not be what God does Rosie believe in,
because
> that really has shit to do with you. The question is do YOU believe in
YOUR
> God and what can he/she/it do for YOU.
>
>
> Bobby L
>
>
>
message. It's appreciated.Talk to you Later........Evey
"Bobby L." <BobbyL2000nospam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:9FHgb.54620$k17.3152@bignews5.bellsouth.net.. .
> > > Am I right in thinking that you are saying that there is only one God
?
> If so and you believe in
> > > him, do you also believe that he can help each and every one of us ?
If
> so, in what ways ?
>
>
> Well yes -- there it is. There is no tap dancing around it. AA is a
> spiritually based program that is based a learned faith in a higher power
> aka God in order to achieve the goals in the manner the program was
intended
> to be practiced. Yes, it initially and still to this day provides for a
> wide interpretation of "God," however, a God concept is still central to
the
> program. We can call it Yahweh, or Jehovah, or the Great Spirit, or the
> Great Oneness or the Goddess or just plain God, but it is still there.
> There are many who will tell you they have gotten through the steps and
> gotten sober without the "required" faith in higher power, (I don't buy
the
> doorknob scenario either). These frequent occurrences do not alter the
> program as a whole, simply the program for that individual. After all,
we
> are not just autonomous in matters not affecting other groups, we are also
> autonomous in matters not affecting other alcoholics.
>
> My faith and belief in my God guides me and directs me down a path that
has
> led to a spiritual enlightenment. Does that mean I am ready for
sainthood?
> Hardly! I do not believe in the "sainthood" concept anyway. I have not
> experienced a major epiphany or public miracles. What I have found in
> following this concept I have formed is a spiritual center that allows me
to
> live life on life's terms. I have learned to accept those things I cannot
> change -- I have learned that given enough courage and determination there
> are things in my life I can change if necessary -- if I am willing to take
> the necessary action. I have learned if I am not willing to take the
action
> then I need to stop whining about whatever it is I do not like. I have
> learned to tell the difference between the two. I have learned not to
blame
> others for my own failures, deficiencies and behaviors. I have stopped
> being the victim of my life and started being a participant therein. That
> is enlightenment I have found.
>
> I do believe there is a God who can and will guide and direct us all, but
> only if we ask and then are willing to follow the direction provided. It
is
> probably appropriate and necessary at this point to identify a MAJOR point
> of this program. My God of My Understanding can do nothing for you -- any
> of you. I have come to learn that only your God can do for you what my
God
> has done for me. I cannot find your God for you. I cannot provide you my
> understanding of your God. That is a bridge you have to cross -- or not.
> If you cross that bridge I can show you the way I found my God -- I can
show
> you the things I did to come to a clearer understanding of my God. It may
> help, but it may not -- after all, it's your God and your understanding.
>
> I have yet to see anyone's God cut the grass for them or pay the bills for
> them, or correct their mistakes. I have seen both my God and many other's
> God show them the way to get these things and many others done.
>
> So to skip to the head of the arguement.... Is AA a God based program?
YOU
> BET YOUR ASS IT IS -- Get over it! You get to choose the God (or Higher
> Power if you prefer), but YES, it is a God based program. We can color
it
> up with ambiguous language and hide behind semantics -- but it is still a
> "faith in God" program. Many swear they cannot or will not develop faith
in
> any higher power, but I believe this is more due a misunderstanding of
> faith. Faith is just hope with a track record -- but if you have no hope,
> then no, it is not likely you will ever develop any faith in anything.
> Faith is a lot like Math -- the more you practice it, the simpler it gets.
>
> Nobody with any experience will tell you AA is the only way. It simply
may
> have been the only way for that person. If you cannot do the God thing,
> then no big deal -- find another way to get sober. It's that simple.
>
> JB, The real question should not be what God does Rosie believe in,
because
> that really has shit to do with you. The question is do YOU believe in
YOUR
> God and what can he/she/it do for YOU.
>
>
> Bobby L
>
>
>