Some advice on sleep?

[Bpyboy]

Hi guys,
Been quite busy lately, and so not posting like I mean to.

I was wondering about something though. I have been in recovery for a couple
months now, excersising religiously, eating (a lot more) properly....

I FINALLY let my doctor into the loop a couple weeks ago, and just last week
complained to him about this maddening insomnia that I have. (always had,
since I was a kid).

He prescribed some Ambian (sp?) and wants me to see a psychologist or other
therapist (more on that next week).

Anyways, I DO feel a lot better with the ambian, as it lets me get about 5-6
hours of sleep. I'd prefer not to take drugs for insomnia, but it's really
frustrating that with a job now, and with excersise and proper diet, and no
booze, i STILL don't sleep.

My particular problem is this: when I can sleep well enough to have dreams,
they tend to be VERY dark and disturbing. All kinds of weird sexually oriented
things (not even nice ones--rather sick and nasty things) and weird medival
combat, or getting chased by dogs and Gestapo.

It's really troubling, as the dreams are so intense and real that while
sleeping I don't know that it's a dream. What's more troubling still is that i
have NO IDEA where they are coming from. I laid off reading creepy books or
watching creepy films before going to sleep, and have no real world experience
with any of the things (alien abductions---who knows?)

Just this morning I was literally JOLTED awake, about 3 am, with a terrible
dream, but still kind of goofed up on sleeping meds, and sweating terribly and
panting (like I said, it was REAL!), i sort of laid there with one eye open
until time to get up and brush my teeth.

Did any of you guys have an experience with intense/bad dreams while in early
recovery?

The problem is, I don't know if it's that my mind works well enough now to
conjure up the thoughts (as a consequence of not drinking myself to sleep, or
passing out), or if it's to do with the drugs (a really moderate and well
regulated dose), or both.

Like I said, I have NEVER been able to sleep well, and had problems with it
even as a little kid, all the way through high school and into adulthood. So I
don't really have a very good reference frame in the first place.

I have an appointment with a shrink early next week to check into it, and
decided with the help of my doctor that the "side effect" of the bad dreams is
a lot better than the symptom of not getting any sleep (in my early college
years, I once spent 13 days awake, without any drugs, minus cigarettes--an it
went down hill from there).

Just wanted to throw it out there and see what some of you guys think about it.
My doctor (who is an internalist, and not a psych. of any kind) seems to think
it's a bipolar disorder. I tend to agree, as my father had it, and so do a
couple others in my family.
It's all new to me, and since i sort of came to adulthood drunk most of the
time, I don't really know what i SHOULD be going through, just that the dreams
and nightmares and depression are getting unbearable.
For now i'm just sucking it up. The blood tests come out ok, and it seems i'm
in reasonably good health, and getting a bit better without booze and with
morning jogging and having a job (which is active, and also prevents heavy
smoking). My blood pressure is down and into the normal/healthy range, my
liver seems to be functioning ok, my heart rate is going down from some CV
workouts.... So I don't think it's really a PHYSICAL problem, but something
wrong between my ears.

Still, staying off the booze is important, and figuring out underlying causes
is more important than anything. I went through some hell to get that far, (a
couple months ago) but am STILL going through hell, but on a much more concious
and less physical level than drying out was.
Thanks for any war stories/advice to hold me over for my MD next week.

it's all just pissing me off, because this trouble is causing me nearly the
same grief as waking up to hangovers was, or the dull thinking from
drunken/passed out sleep. or the drunken days. Not quite as bad, but still
really dull thinking. And it's like I KNOW there is more in there, but i'm so
tired and wiped out that I can't retrive it when I would like to.

thanks guys. Looking into it with some medical help. They actually want to
pay ME for a study! Can you imagine, I get paid for medical help! Write that
one on your calender, it won't happen again until hell needs ice cubes! They
want me to do some sleep studies at the hospital and see some brain activity
while i'm sleeping.

The joys of relying on university medical care--another student who's broke and
can't sleep--let's check out what's going on in his brain! Hit him with a cab
and $30, and he'll be ok!

Thanks guys,
John.

[rosie read and post]

> I have an appointment with a shrink early next week to check into it,
and
> decided with the help of my doctor that the "side effect" of the bad
dreams is
> a lot better than the symptom of not getting any sleep (in my early
college
> years, I once spent 13 days awake, without any drugs, minus
cigarettes--an it
> went down hill from there).
>


i am glad to read that you have an appointment with a
psychiatrist...........that is a positive step.
hang in there, you will get to the bottom of the problem, and now with
alcohol in the way, the diagnostic process will go much smoother!

[ANTONIO MYLADIS]

HAVING BEEN AN ADDICT FOR MOST OF MY LIFE(28 YEARS) I UNDERSTAND YOUR
SITUATION.FIRST OF ALL I'D LIKE TO SAY I'M PROUD OF YOU!!!YOU'VE BEEN
ABLE TO DO WHAT MANY HAVE TRIED AND NOT GAINED.THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT
YOU NOT ONLY ARE TRYING,YOU ARE SUCCEEDING.YES-GRANT IT,IT WILL TAKE
TIME.BUT LOOK AT ALL THE TIME YOU WASTED GETTING HIGH. YOU ALREADY
LEARNED HOW TO BE THE BEST DRUNK.NOW YOU WILL LEARN HOW TO BE THE PERSON
YOU WERE MEANT TO BE.MY ADVICE TO YOU IS THAT YOU ALREADY WASTED ENOUGH
TIME.IT'S TIME TO LIVE AND LET YOURSELF BE AT PEACE.AFTER ALL MY YEARS
OF DRUGGING,JAILING CONNING..AND WASTING TIME.ALL I WANT IS PEACE...ALL
THE MATERIAL THINGS COME AND GO. RELATIONSHIPS ALSO COME AND GO.BUT
NOTHING IS BETTER THEN THE PEACE YOU FEEL THE DAY YOU WAKE UP...AND YOU
WILL WAKE UP ONE DAY AND SAY...I FEEL GREAT!!!!AND THANK YOU GOD FOR
HELPING ME THROUGH THIS.AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD,THEN BELIEVE IN
YOUR SUBSTANCE...YOU MADE THIS RECOVERY HAPPEN.
NOW TO GIVE YOU THE SCOOP ON AMBIEN-BE CAREFUL--THIS SHOULD ONLY BE
TAKEN 7-10 DAYS AND YOU MUST HAVE A FULL 8 HOURS SLEEP. AMBIEN CAN ALSO
BE ADDICTIVE--WHAT WILL YOU DO IF ONE PILL DOESN'T DO IT ANY MORE? OR
HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN YOU HAVE AN ADDICTIVE PERSONALITY? JUST BECAUSE YOU
QUIT DRINKING DOESN'T MEAN YOU'LL GET YOUR SLEEP OVER NIGHT.BE GRATEFUL
YOU GET CATNAPS AND/OR A COUPLE HOURS SLEEP.IT WILL TAKE UP TO A YEAR
FOR YOU TO GAIN NORMAL SLEEP BACK.
ABOUT THE DREAMS...THESE ARE ALL DIFFERENT THOUGHTS AND IDEAS SCATTERED
IN YOUR HEAD.YOU MUST REMEMBER ADDICTION IS A NIGHTMARE...YOU ARE
BASICALLY STILL IN IT.JUST KEEP UP FRONT THAT SOONER OR LATER...THIS TOO
SHALL PASS.AND IT WOULDN'T HURT TO SAY A LITTLE PRAYER BEFORE YOU GO TO
SLEEP.
OH!!!ONE MORE THING ABOUT THE PSYCHOLOGIST...GREAT IDEA,THE MORE YOU
TALK ABOUT THIS THE BETTER...BUT DON'T STAY TOO FOCUSSED ON THE
PAST...DEAL WITH IT AND MORE ON.....OR YOU'LL BE STUCK IN THE
PAST...WHILE IN THE PRESENT AN NEVER SEE WHAT'S IN STORE FOR THE FUTURE.
I'M NOT ONLY IN RECOVERY 9 YEARS,BUT I ALSO TRY TO HELP OTHER ADDICTS
FIND ANSWERS AS THEIR ADDICTIONS COUNSELOR. TAKE CARE...MILLIE

[Shawster]

"ANTONIO

dude, caps lock. right above shift on the left. please

[Shawster]

have you done your fifth step yet? that's when I started sleeping like a
log.

try keeping a notebook by your bed with a dim nightlight. you'll be amazed
at all the dreams you have during the night. just program yourself to write
as soon as you realize you are semi conscious. If you weren't insomniac I'd
say try setting an alarm at random hours in the night, and write.

then maybe the dreams you remember won't seem as disturbing. I once wrote
in a dream journal that I was a Huguenot. I had to look it up. weird.



"Bpyboy" <bpyboy@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031014184403.19814.00000351@mb-m07.aol.com...
> Hi guys,
> Been quite busy lately, and so not posting like I mean to.
>
> I was wondering about something though. I have been in recovery for a
couple
> months now, excersising religiously, eating (a lot more) properly....
>
> I FINALLY let my doctor into the loop a couple weeks ago, and just last
week
> complained to him about this maddening insomnia that I have. (always had,
> since I was a kid).
>
> He prescribed some Ambian (sp?) and wants me to see a psychologist or
other
> therapist (more on that next week).
>
> Anyways, I DO feel a lot better with the ambian, as it lets me get about
5-6
> hours of sleep. I'd prefer not to take drugs for insomnia, but it's
really
> frustrating that with a job now, and with excersise and proper diet, and
no
> booze, i STILL don't sleep.
>
> My particular problem is this: when I can sleep well enough to have
dreams,
> they tend to be VERY dark and disturbing. All kinds of weird sexually
oriented
> things (not even nice ones--rather sick and nasty things) and weird
medival
> combat, or getting chased by dogs and Gestapo.
>
> It's really troubling, as the dreams are so intense and real that while
> sleeping I don't know that it's a dream. What's more troubling still is
that i
> have NO IDEA where they are coming from. I laid off reading creepy books
or
> watching creepy films before going to sleep, and have no real world
experience
> with any of the things (alien abductions---who knows?)
>
> Just this morning I was literally JOLTED awake, about 3 am, with a
terrible
> dream, but still kind of goofed up on sleeping meds, and sweating terribly
and
> panting (like I said, it was REAL!), i sort of laid there with one eye
open
> until time to get up and brush my teeth.
>
> Did any of you guys have an experience with intense/bad dreams while in
early
> recovery?
>
> The problem is, I don't know if it's that my mind works well enough now to
> conjure up the thoughts (as a consequence of not drinking myself to sleep,
or
> passing out), or if it's to do with the drugs (a really moderate and well
> regulated dose), or both.
>
> Like I said, I have NEVER been able to sleep well, and had problems with
it
> even as a little kid, all the way through high school and into adulthood.
So I
> don't really have a very good reference frame in the first place.
>
> I have an appointment with a shrink early next week to check into it, and
> decided with the help of my doctor that the "side effect" of the bad
dreams is
> a lot better than the symptom of not getting any sleep (in my early
college
> years, I once spent 13 days awake, without any drugs, minus cigarettes--an
it
> went down hill from there).
>
> Just wanted to throw it out there and see what some of you guys think
about it.
> My doctor (who is an internalist, and not a psych. of any kind) seems to
think
> it's a bipolar disorder. I tend to agree, as my father had it, and so do
a
> couple others in my family.
> It's all new to me, and since i sort of came to adulthood drunk most of
the
> time, I don't really know what i SHOULD be going through, just that the
dreams
> and nightmares and depression are getting unbearable.
> For now i'm just sucking it up. The blood tests come out ok, and it seems
i'm
> in reasonably good health, and getting a bit better without booze and with
> morning jogging and having a job (which is active, and also prevents heavy
> smoking). My blood pressure is down and into the normal/healthy range, my
> liver seems to be functioning ok, my heart rate is going down from some CV
> workouts.... So I don't think it's really a PHYSICAL problem, but
something
> wrong between my ears.
>
> Still, staying off the booze is important, and figuring out underlying
causes
> is more important than anything. I went through some hell to get that
far, (a
> couple months ago) but am STILL going through hell, but on a much more
concious
> and less physical level than drying out was.
> Thanks for any war stories/advice to hold me over for my MD next week.
>
> it's all just pissing me off, because this trouble is causing me nearly
the
> same grief as waking up to hangovers was, or the dull thinking from
> drunken/passed out sleep. or the drunken days. Not quite as bad, but
still
> really dull thinking. And it's like I KNOW there is more in there, but
i'm so
> tired and wiped out that I can't retrive it when I would like to.
>
> thanks guys. Looking into it with some medical help. They actually want
to
> pay ME for a study! Can you imagine, I get paid for medical help! Write
that
> one on your calender, it won't happen again until hell needs ice cubes!
They
> want me to do some sleep studies at the hospital and see some brain
activity
> while i'm sleeping.
>
> The joys of relying on university medical care--another student who's
broke and
> can't sleep--let's check out what's going on in his brain! Hit him with a
cab
> and $30, and he'll be ok!
>
> Thanks guys,
> John.
>

[Moonraker]

"Bpyboy" <bpyboy@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031014184403.19814.00000351@mb-m07.aol.com...
> thanks guys. Looking into it with some medical help. They actually want
to
> pay ME for a study! Can you imagine, I get paid for medical help! Write
that
> one on your calender, it won't happen again until hell needs ice cubes!
They
> want me to do some sleep studies at the hospital and see some brain
activity
> while i'm sleeping.
>
> The joys of relying on university medical care--another student who's
broke and
> can't sleep--let's check out what's going on in his brain! Hit him with a
cab
> and $30, and he'll be ok!
>
> Thanks guys,

> John.

There may be a psysiological reason for the poor sleep.

Do you snore (heavily), do you stop breathing for periods of time while
asleep, and then arouse when your central nervous system wakes you up to
force you to breathe? This is called Obstructive Sleep Apnea. Without
going into much of the details, it is a condition where the trachea
collapses during sleep and blocks the air flow. It can be caused by
overweight (heavy jowls), a incorrectly shaped palate, or other causes,
such as a narrow airway. (My condition)

I have a board-certified sleep doc. He says this is a very common complaint
in recovering alcholics. He's prescribed Ambien for me for several years.
It IS NOT addictive, (at least for me). He knows my medical and alcohol
history, and isn't at all concerned with with me taking Ambien nightly. I
sleep just as well with it as without.......If I forget to get the refill or
just fall asleep without it, makes no difference. I still get about the
same amount of sleep.

Do the sleep studies. They will determine definitively if you have
something physically wrong. Sooner rather than later!!!!

When you stop breathing while asleep, your O2 in your blood will sink to
alarmingly low levels. In one of my sleep studies, I awakened (from REM
sleep) 141 times an hour, and my O2 sat was below 70%. Awakening about
every 30 seconds in order to breathe is not conducive to good sleep, eh?
It's not a full awakening, just a disturbance that interrupts the REM
sleep.

Treatment is surgical (bad idea, usually), a mouth prosthetic (like a
boxer's mouthpiece)that moves your tongue out of the way so that you can
mouth breathe, or a CPAP machine and a mask. It blows a constant pressure
of air into your airway, acting like a "air splint" to keep the trachea
open.

Over the years, I "knew" I would have trouble sleeping, so I
self-medicated with the booze until I "could" sleep/pass out. If, in fact
you do have this OSA problem, let me know. I'll be happy to share more
with you, privately.

[rosie read and post]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:zX%ib.108236$eS5.64395@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
> have you done your fifth step yet? that's when I started sleeping like
a
> log.
>

ROTFLMAO!

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:QS1jb.27366$%C5.14729@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:zX%ib.108236$eS5.64395@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
> > have you done your fifth step yet? that's when I started sleeping like
> a
> > log.
> >
>
> ROTFLMAO!
>
>

You find humor in people getting relief and peace of mind from doing their
5th step ?

Or is it your usual derision, saying, in effect, that Shawster hasn't done
a 5th step?

What in hell is wrong with you, anyway?

[Shawster]

"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:o33jb.8142$w_5.693@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:QS1jb.27366$%C5.14729@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:zX%ib.108236$eS5.64395@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
> > > have you done your fifth step yet? that's when I started sleeping like
> > a
> > > log.
> > >
> >
> > ROTFLMAO!
> >
> >
>
> You find humor in people getting relief and peace of mind from doing their
> 5th step ?
>
> Or is it your usual derision, saying, in effect, that Shawster hasn't
done
> a 5th step?
>
> What in hell is wrong with you, anyway?

holy crap. rosie. you just lost the last of any care, concern, respect or
even human consideration, that I may have had.

you truly are a worthless piece of shit. FOAD>


>
>
>
>

[Moonraker]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Db3jb.108985$eS5.92344@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
>
> "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:o33jb.8142$w_5.693@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > "rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:QS1jb.27366$%C5.14729@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > >
> > > "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:zX%ib.108236$eS5.64395@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
> > > > have you done your fifth step yet? that's when I started sleeping
like
> > > a
> > > > log.
> > > >
> > >
> > > ROTFLMAO!
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You find humor in people getting relief and peace of mind from doing
their
> > 5th step ?
> >
> > Or is it your usual derision, saying, in effect, that Shawster hasn't
> done
> > a 5th step?
> >
> > What in hell is wrong with you, anyway?
>
> holy crap. rosie. you just lost the last of any care, concern, respect
or
> even human consideration, that I may have had.
>
> you truly are a worthless piece of shit. FOAD>
>

That 'bout sez it all.

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:49:37 -0500, "rosie read and post"
<readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote:

>i am glad to read that you have an appointment with a
>psychiatrist...........that is a positive step.

You think?

--
Blue Moon

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <cad8df295e4583281cd5c57d30996118@news.teranews.com >, Blue
Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
>On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:49:37 -0500, "rosie read and post"
><readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>i am glad to read that you have an appointment with a
>>psychiatrist...........that is a positive step.
>
>You think?
>
You don't?
--
Jonathan Bratt

[rosie read and post]

> I have a board-certified sleep doc. He says this is a very common
complaint
> in recovering alcholics. He's prescribed Ambien for me for several
years.
> It IS NOT addictive, (at least for me). He knows my medical and
alcohol
> history, and isn't at all concerned with with me taking Ambien
nightly. I
> sleep just as well with it as without.......If I forget to get the
refill or
> just fall asleep without it, makes no difference. I still get about
the
> same amount of sleep.
>


moonie,
board certified huh?
AMBIAN is indeed addictive, and should NOT be used for a long length of
time.
if you sleep just as well without it, i suggest that you stop taking it,
but be careful stopping this drug....................

why not read on?

DESCRIPTION
Zolpidem tartrate, is a non-benzodiazepine hypnotic of the
imidazopyridine class and is available in 5 mg and 10 mg strength
tablets for oral administration.

Chemically, zolpidem is
N,N,6-trimethyl-2-p-toyl-imidazo(1,2,-a)pyridine-3-acetamide
L-(+)-tartrate (2:1).

Zolpidem tartrate is a white to off-white crystalline powder that is
sparingly soluble in water, alcohol, and propylene glycol. It has a
molecular weight of 764.88.

Each Ambien tablet includes the following inactive ingredients:
hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, lactose, magnesium stearate,
microcrystalline cellulose, polyethylene glycol, sodium starch
glycolate, titanium dioxide; the 5 mg tablet also contains FD&C Red No.
40, iron oxide colorant, and polysorbate 80.

DRUG ABUSE AND DEPENDENCE
Controlled Substance: Zolpidem tartrate is classified as a Schedule IV
controlled substance by federal regulation.

Studies of abuse potential in former drug abusers found that the effects
of single doses of zolpidem tartrate 40 mg were similar, but not
identical, to diazepam 20 mg, while zolpidem tartrate 10 mg was
difficult to distinguish from placebo.

Sedative/hypnotics have produced withdrawal signs and symptoms following
abrupt discontinuation. These reported symptoms range from mild
dysphoria and insomnia to a withdrawal syndrome that may include
abdominal and muscle cramps, vomiting, sweating, tremors, and
convulsions. The U.S. clinical trial experience from zolpidem does not
reveal any clear evidence for withdrawal syndrome. Nevertheless, the
following adverse events included in DSM-III-R criteria for
uncomplicated sedative/hypnotic withdrawal were reported during U.S.
clinical trials following placebo substitution occurring within 48 hours
following last zolpidem treatment: fatigue, nausea, flushing,
lightheadedness, uncontrolled crying, emesis, stomach cramps, panic
attack, nervousness, and abdominal discomfort. These reported adverse
events occurred at an incidence of 1% or less. However, available data
cannot provide a reliable estimate of the incidence, if any, of
dependency, or the relationship of any dependency to dose and duration
of treatment.

Because individuals with a history of addiction to, or abuse of, drugs
or alcohol are at risk of habituation and dependence, they should be
under careful supervision when receiving zolpidem or any other hypnotic.

[rosie read and post]

>
> You find humor in people getting relief and peace of mind from doing
their
> 5th step ?
>


what would you know?
ambian, remember?



>
> What in hell is wrong with you, anyway?
>

nothing is wrong with me, it is the hypocrasy of yours and that of "your
good old boys" that makes me giggle!




>

[rosie read and post]

shaw,
just in case, you STOP sleeping like a log, and your SURE its not
because you need another fifth step, you can call moonie, for some
AMBIAN..........................he has plenty!

FRAUDS!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

happiness is not a state to arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
.................................m.l. runbeck













"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Db3jb.108985$eS5.92344@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
>
> "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:o33jb.8142$w_5.693@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > "rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:QS1jb.27366$%C5.14729@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > >
> > > "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:zX%ib.108236$eS5.64395@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
> > > > have you done your fifth step yet? that's when I started
sleeping like
> > > a
> > > > log.
> > > >
> > >
> > > ROTFLMAO!
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You find humor in people getting relief and peace of mind from doing
their
> > 5th step ?
> >
> > Or is it your usual derision, saying, in effect, that Shawster
hasn't
> done
> > a 5th step?
> >
> > What in hell is wrong with you, anyway?
>
> holy crap. rosie. you just lost the last of any care, concern,
respect or
> even human consideration, that I may have had.
>
> you truly are a worthless piece of shit. FOAD>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[rosie read and post]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cad8df295e4583281cd5c57d30996118@news.teranew s.com...
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:49:37 -0500, "rosie read and post"
> <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >i am glad to read that you have an appointment with a
> >psychiatrist...........that is a positive step.
>
> You think?
>
> --
> Blue Moon


ABSOLUTELY!
alcoholic/drug relapse can be very dangerous, and a common cause, is
lack of proper treatment of depression.
i believe clinical depression SHOULD be ruled out!

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rOajb.27422$%C5.14131@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> >
>
> nothing is wrong with me, it is the hypocrasy of yours and that of "your
> good old boys" that makes me giggle!
>
I'm at a loss for words to describe the disgust I have for you. Shaw is
absolutely right. You really are a worthless piece of shit.

Hypocrisy, indeed. That was low, even for you.

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6Qajb.27423$%C5.16868@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> shaw,
> just in case, you STOP sleeping like a log, and your SURE its not
> because you need another fifth step, you can call moonie, for some
> AMBIAN..........................he has plenty!
>
> FRAUDS!
>
For one who advocates the use of AD's at the drop of a hat, them's fighting
words.

[rosie read and post]

> > FRAUDS!
> >
> For one who advocates the use of AD's at the drop of a hat, them's
fighting
> words.


FIGHTING WORDS?
just what do you call your behavior all this time?

imo, you owe EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the newsgroup a HUGE apology, for
your hypocritical behavior.
(which btw, didn't surprise me in the least, its folks like you and "the
good old boys" that ALWAYS have something to hide)

your "holier than though" attitude about medications in recovery is
just a joke! here you are taking SLEEPING PILLS?!
LOL!

treatment for true SLEEP APNEA is NOT sleeping
pills.................have you tried CPAP?
for more info:
http://www.sleepapnea.org/
ask any nurse or doctor (and they don't even have to be "board
certified") you will find your answers, if that is what you truly want.

[rosie read and post]

JB,
your post suggests to me, that you haven't a clue about what's been
going on in here.
chill, hon.

[rosie read and post]

> I'm at a loss for words to describe the disgust I have for you.


actually, you should start feeling a little
better.................HONESTY does that for folks!

[JB]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6Qajb.27423$%C5.16868@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> shaw,
> just in case, you STOP sleeping like a log, and your SURE its not
> because you need another fifth step, you can call moonie, for some
> AMBIAN..........................he has plenty!
>
> FRAUDS!

Rosie,

FWIW, your behaviour suggests to me that you are mentally unstable :^))

Yours

JB

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pQbjb.27431$%C5.6364@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> > > FRAUDS!
> > >
> > For one who advocates the use of AD's at the drop of a hat, them's
> fighting
> > words.
>
>
> FIGHTING WORDS?
> just what do you call your behavior all this time?

Calling you on your God damn shit every time I can. You are way off base,
wrong as hell, and you don't have one shred of humility to admit you were
wrong.
>
> imo, you owe EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the newsgroup a HUGE apology, for
> your hypocritical behavior.

And YOU don't owe Shaw an apology? You are as guilty as sin and you know
it. You and you smug self-rightousness can just kiss my ass.


The fact that I have OSA is in NO way germaine to my recovery from
alchoholism. I have a BPAP (not CPAP, there's a big difference).
Sometimes, I use Ambien, mostly, I don't. If I need to hit the rack
"early" because of a big day the next day, I'll use it, otherwise I don't.

I've forgotten more about OSA and the treatment and Ambien than you'll ever
know. I've been on this for nearly 10 years. Daily. You read 5 pages in
a textbook and it makes you a fucking expert. Shut the hell up.

>
> your "holier than though" attitude about medications in recovery is
> just a joke! here you are taking SLEEPING PILLS?!
> LOL!

Show me where Ambien is "mood altering"? You ain't gonna win this one,
toots.

>
> treatment for true SLEEP APNEA is NOT sleeping
> pills.................have you tried CPAP?
> for more info:
> http://www.sleepapnea.org/
> ask any nurse or doctor (and they don't even have to be "board
> certified") you will find your answers, if that is what you truly want.

You really need to stop playing medical expert and consultant. I have the
answers, they work, and you need to get your XXXL panties pulled out of
your crack.

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:yRbjb.27432$%C5.19862@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> JB,
> your post suggests to me, that you haven't a clue about what's been
> going on in here.
> chill, hon.
>
>
More of your dismissive bullshit, eh?

[rosie read and post]

> I've forgotten more about OSA and the treatment and Ambien than you'll
ever
> know. I've been on this for nearly 10 years. Daily. You read 5
pages in
> a textbook and it makes you a fucking expert. Shut the hell up.
>
>

10 years of ambian?
that explains a lot! (speaks volumes!)

[rosie read and post]

>
> >
> More of your dismissive bullshit, eh?
>
>


dismissive? YES!
bullshit? NOPE!

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cSbjb.27433$%C5.1206@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > I'm at a loss for words to describe the disgust I have for you.
>
>
> actually, you should start feeling a little
> better.................HONESTY does that for folks!
>
>


Maybe a little honesty and humility on your part would eliminate that insane
desire you have to roll your fat ass all over the floor.

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <cucjb.12912$w_5.7926@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, Moonraker
<moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
>
>"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:yRbjb.27432$%C5.19862@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>> JB,
>> your post suggests to me, that you haven't a clue about what's been
>> going on in here.
>> chill, hon.
>>
>>
>More of your dismissive bullshit, eh?
>
>
So speaks the expert on the subject.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <Pzbjb.14563$lk1.10411@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, Moonraker
<moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
> I'm at a loss for words to describe the disgust I have for you. Shaw
>is absolutely right. You really are a worthless piece of shit.

God knows what that makes you, you venomous reptile.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[rosie read and post]

> In message <Pzbjb.14563$lk1.10411@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, Moonraker
> <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
> > I'm at a loss for words to describe the disgust I have for
you.................

>
> God knows what that makes you, you venomous reptile.
> --
> Jonathan Bratt


not surprisingly, moonie turns out to be a HUGE
prevaricator....................a "mood altered" one!

:)

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8Ecjb.27437$%C5.12698@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> > I've forgotten more about OSA and the treatment and Ambien than you'll
> ever
> > know. I've been on this for nearly 10 years. Daily. You read 5
> pages in
> > a textbook and it makes you a fucking expert. Shut the hell up.
> >
> >
>
> 10 years of ambian?
> that explains a lot! (speaks volumes!)
>
>
And your 20 plus years of AD's speaks libraries full.

Ambien (not ambian) is not a mood altering drug. It has a very short
half-life. Meaning that there is no morning grogginess.

I've been on BPAP/CPAP for nearly 10 years. I didn't say how long I've had
an Rx for Ambien, nor if it were continuously prescribed, or even if I took
it every day, or what the dosage is.

You allegedly having a nursing license (which if the truth were known
probably got revoked because of your drunkenness) seems to give you
permission to spout your medical theories. It's perfectly OK for you to
reccomend AD's to a drunk because they might be depressed, but it's not OK
to take a sleep aid occasionally, under the supervision of a board
certified sleep doc?

You are a dispicable hypocrite. FOAD

[rosie read and post]

"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:uOcjb.13090$w_5.11418@bignews4.bellsouth.net. ..
>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:cSbjb.27433$%C5.1206@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > > I'm at a loss for words to describe the disgust I have for you.
> >
> >
> > actually, you should start feeling a little
> > better.................HONESTY does that for folks!
> >
> >
>
>


time moonie, it just takes time.....................be patient!

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1Pcjb.27440$%C5.16210@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > In message <Pzbjb.14563$lk1.10411@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, Moonraker
> > <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
> > > I'm at a loss for words to describe the disgust I have for
> you.................
>
> >
> > God knows what that makes you, you venomous reptile.
> > --
> > Jonathan Bratt
>
>
> not surprisingly, moonie turns out to be a HUGE
> prevaricator....................a "mood altered" one!
>
> :)

Blow me.

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1Pcjb.27440$%C5.16210@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > In message <Pzbjb.14563$lk1.10411@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, Moonraker
> > <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
> > > I'm at a loss for words to describe the disgust I have for
> you.................
>
> >
> > God knows what that makes you, you venomous reptile.
> > --
> > Jonathan Bratt
>

Which "God" would that be, pansy boy?

Surely your sorry athestic ass isn't referring to THE Diety you don't
believe in? ROTFLMAO

[JB]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:yRbjb.27432$%C5.19862@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> JB,
> your post suggests to me, that you haven't a clue about what's been
> going on in here.
> chill, hon.

ROFLMAO

JB

[rosie read and post]

"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

> Surely your sorry athestic ass isn't referring to THE Diety you don't
> believe in?





THE diety?
time to do some reading moonie!

CHAPTER FOUR:
(page 44)



".....................Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need
to consider another's conception of God. Our own conception, however
inadequate, was sufficient to make the approach and to effect a contact
with Him. As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a Creative
Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of
things, we began to be possessed of a new sense of power and direction,
provided we took other simple steps. We found that God does not make too
hard terms with those who seek Him. To us, the Realm of Spirit is broad,
roomy, all inclusive; never exclusive or forbidding to those who
earnestly seek. It is open, we believe, to all men. When, therefore, we
speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of
God....................."




--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie


"deficit spending is an unconscionable form of fiscal child abuse."
...............................stephen moore



"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Ufdjb.34$h47.25@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1Pcjb.27440$%C5.16210@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > > In message <Pzbjb.14563$lk1.10411@bignews3.bellsouth.net>,
Moonraker
> > > <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
> > > > I'm at a loss for words to describe the disgust I have for
> > you.................
> >
> > >
> > > God knows what that makes you, you venomous reptile.
> > > --
> > > Jonathan Bratt
> >
>
> Which "God" would that be, pansy boy?
>
> Surely your sorry athestic ass isn't referring to THE Diety you don't
> believe in? ROTFLMAO
>
>

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zodjb.27454$%C5.6236@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> THE diety?
> time to do some reading moonie!
>
> CHAPTER FOUR:
> (page 44)
>
How convienient for you to roll out a quote from the BB when it serves YOUR
twisted purpose.

You remind me of a used Zip-Loc bag tossed away on the sidewalk. Totally
transparent and nasty on the inside.

[rosie read and post]

> You remind me of a used Zip-Loc bag tossed away on the sidewalk.
Totally
> transparent and nasty on the inside.
>
>

LOL!
you are soooooooooooooooooooooo easy!
its a shame to waste my loving, forgiving behavior on you, but alas, i
must!
((((((((((((((((moonie))))))))))))))))))

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <S3djb.13228$w_5.6657@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, Moonraker
<moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
>
>"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1Pcjb.27440$%C5.16210@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>
>> > In message <Pzbjb.14563$lk1.10411@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, Moonraker
>> > <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
>> > > I'm at a loss for words to describe the disgust I have for
>> you.................
>>
>> >
>> > God knows what that makes you, you venomous reptile.
>> > --
>> > Jonathan Bratt
>>
>>
>> not surprisingly, moonie turns out to be a HUGE
>> prevaricator....................a "mood altered" one!
>>
>> :)
>
>Blow me.
>
>
I'll pass thanks. I have my standards.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <Ufdjb.34$h47.25@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, Moonraker
<moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
>
>"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1Pcjb.27440$%C5.16210@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>
>> > In message <Pzbjb.14563$lk1.10411@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, Moonraker
>> > <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
>> > > I'm at a loss for words to describe the disgust I have for
>> you.................
>>
>> >
>> > God knows what that makes you, you venomous reptile.
>> > --
>> > Jonathan Bratt
>>
>
>Which "God" would that be, pansy boy?

Take your pick - there are enough out there asswipe.
>
>Surely your sorry athestic ass isn't referring to THE Diety you don't
>believe in? ROTFLMAO

Don't believe in any - it's called a figure of speech. Guess you never
learned anything that advanced in school tho
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3Idjb.27456$%C5.4868@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> > You remind me of a used Zip-Loc bag tossed away on the sidewalk.
> Totally
> > transparent and nasty on the inside.
> >
> >
>
> LOL!
> you are soooooooooooooooooooooo easy!
> its a shame to waste my loving, forgiving behavior on you, but alas, i
> must!
> ((((((((((((((((moonie))))))))))))))))))
>
>
I thought I told you to NEVER MIND? You have absolutely nothing I need or
want. FOAD

[rosie read and post]

> >Blow me.
> >
> >
> I'll pass thanks. I have my standards.
> --
> Jonathan Bratt



ROTFLMAO!
(i just knew you wouldn't resist!)

[rosie read and post]

> > ((((((((((((((((moonie))))))))))))))))))
> >
> >
> I thought I told you to NEVER MIND? You have absolutely nothing I
need or
> want. FOAD
>
>

it is OBVIOUS that you are wrong moonie............................
and guess what?
you can't stop me!
:)

((((((((((((((((((moonie))))))))))))))))))))

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8Udjb.27465$%C5.22254@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> > >Blow me.
> > >
> > >
> > I'll pass thanks. I have my standards.
> > --
> > Jonathan Bratt
>
>
>
> ROTFLMAO!
> (i just knew you wouldn't resist!)


>
I wasn't talking to your alter ego, RRAP. I'd rather french kiss a
rattlesnake than let that little AIDs infested maggot anywhere near me.

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <Yzdjb.107$h47.22@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, Moonraker
<moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
> Totally transparent and nasty on the inside.

That would the definition of you with the shit kicked out of you.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Ian W]

>
> not surprisingly, moonie turns out to be a HUGE
> prevaricator....................a "mood altered" one!
>
> :)

Ambien addiction symptoms include but are not limited to:


a.. Showing relief from anxiety when using Ambien
b.. Changes in mood-from a sense of well-being to belligerence
c.. False feelings of self-confidence
d.. Increased sensitivity to sights and sounds, including
hallucinations
e.. Altered activity levels-such as sleeping for 12 to 14 hours or
frenzied activity lasting for hours
f.. Unpleasant or painful symptoms when Ambien is withdrawn
g.. Preoccupation with running out of Ambien
h..
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 09/10/2003

[rosie read and post]

YUP!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

"deficit spending is an unconscionable form of fiscal child abuse."
...............................stephen moore



"Ian W" <ianwaterhouse[AT]claraDOTco.uk> wrote in message
news:1066235764.83016.0@ersa.uk.clara.net...
>
> >
> > not surprisingly, moonie turns out to be a HUGE
> > prevaricator....................a "mood altered" one!
> >
> > :)
>
> Ambien addiction symptoms include but are not limited to:
>
>
> a.. Showing relief from anxiety when using Ambien
> b.. Changes in mood-from a sense of well-being to belligerence
> c.. False feelings of self-confidence
> d.. Increased sensitivity to sights and sounds, including
> hallucinations
> e.. Altered activity levels-such as sleeping for 12 to 14 hours or
> frenzied activity lasting for hours
> f.. Unpleasant or painful symptoms when Ambien is withdrawn
> g.. Preoccupation with running out of Ambien
> h..
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 09/10/2003
>
>

[debs]

AAAAARRRRGGGGG my ears hurt

--
Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.
"ANTONIO MYLADIS" <ANTMILLIE@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:19922-3F8C8697-396@storefull-2334.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> HAVING BEEN AN ADDICT FOR MOST OF MY LIFE(28 YEARS) I UNDERSTAND YOUR
> SITUATION.FIRST OF ALL I'D LIKE TO SAY I'M PROUD OF YOU!!!YOU'VE BEEN
> ABLE TO DO WHAT MANY HAVE TRIED AND NOT GAINED.THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT
> YOU NOT ONLY ARE TRYING,YOU ARE SUCCEEDING.YES-GRANT IT,IT WILL TAKE
> TIME.BUT LOOK AT ALL THE TIME YOU WASTED GETTING HIGH. YOU ALREADY
> LEARNED HOW TO BE THE BEST DRUNK.NOW YOU WILL LEARN HOW TO BE THE PERSON
> YOU WERE MEANT TO BE.MY ADVICE TO YOU IS THAT YOU ALREADY WASTED ENOUGH
> TIME.IT'S TIME TO LIVE AND LET YOURSELF BE AT PEACE.AFTER ALL MY YEARS
> OF DRUGGING,JAILING CONNING..AND WASTING TIME.ALL I WANT IS PEACE...ALL
> THE MATERIAL THINGS COME AND GO. RELATIONSHIPS ALSO COME AND GO.BUT
> NOTHING IS BETTER THEN THE PEACE YOU FEEL THE DAY YOU WAKE UP...AND YOU
> WILL WAKE UP ONE DAY AND SAY...I FEEL GREAT!!!!AND THANK YOU GOD FOR
> HELPING ME THROUGH THIS.AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD,THEN BELIEVE IN
> YOUR SUBSTANCE...YOU MADE THIS RECOVERY HAPPEN.
> NOW TO GIVE YOU THE SCOOP ON AMBIEN-BE CAREFUL--THIS SHOULD ONLY BE
> TAKEN 7-10 DAYS AND YOU MUST HAVE A FULL 8 HOURS SLEEP. AMBIEN CAN ALSO
> BE ADDICTIVE--WHAT WILL YOU DO IF ONE PILL DOESN'T DO IT ANY MORE? OR
> HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN YOU HAVE AN ADDICTIVE PERSONALITY? JUST BECAUSE YOU
> QUIT DRINKING DOESN'T MEAN YOU'LL GET YOUR SLEEP OVER NIGHT.BE GRATEFUL
> YOU GET CATNAPS AND/OR A COUPLE HOURS SLEEP.IT WILL TAKE UP TO A YEAR
> FOR YOU TO GAIN NORMAL SLEEP BACK.
> ABOUT THE DREAMS...THESE ARE ALL DIFFERENT THOUGHTS AND IDEAS SCATTERED
> IN YOUR HEAD.YOU MUST REMEMBER ADDICTION IS A NIGHTMARE...YOU ARE
> BASICALLY STILL IN IT.JUST KEEP UP FRONT THAT SOONER OR LATER...THIS TOO
> SHALL PASS.AND IT WOULDN'T HURT TO SAY A LITTLE PRAYER BEFORE YOU GO TO
> SLEEP.
> OH!!!ONE MORE THING ABOUT THE PSYCHOLOGIST...GREAT IDEA,THE MORE YOU
> TALK ABOUT THIS THE BETTER...BUT DON'T STAY TOO FOCUSSED ON THE
> PAST...DEAL WITH IT AND MORE ON.....OR YOU'LL BE STUCK IN THE
> PAST...WHILE IN THE PRESENT AN NEVER SEE WHAT'S IN STORE FOR THE FUTURE.
> I'M NOT ONLY IN RECOVERY 9 YEARS,BUT I ALSO TRY TO HELP OTHER ADDICTS
> FIND ANSWERS AS THEIR ADDICTIONS COUNSELOR. TAKE CARE...MILLIE
>

[Blue Moon]

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:56:36 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
<jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:

>In message <cad8df295e4583281cd5c57d30996118@news.teranews.com >, Blue
>Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
>>On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:49:37 -0500, "rosie read and post"
>><readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>i am glad to read that you have an appointment with a
>>>psychiatrist...........that is a positive step.
>>
>>You think?
>>
>You don't?

No.
--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:17:53 -0500, "rosie read and post"
<readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:cad8df295e4583281cd5c57d30996118@news.teranew s.com...
>> On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:49:37 -0500, "rosie read and post"
>> <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >i am glad to read that you have an appointment with a
>> >psychiatrist...........that is a positive step.
>>
>> You think?
>>
>> --
>> Blue Moon
>
>
>ABSOLUTELY!
>alcoholic/drug relapse can be very dangerous, and a common cause, is
>lack of proper treatment of depression.

LOL Alcohol CAUSES depression, but I'm not aware of any pill that
resolves alcoholism.

--
Blue Moon

[rosie read and post]

> Alcohol CAUSES depression,

YES, it certainly can!
MOST folks find that their depression "lifts" after putting the plug in
the jug and working on some kind of recovery.
that name for depression of that type is SITUATIONAL DEPRESSION.

[Evey]

Hi There,
All kinds of bad dreams and nightmares in the early months of sobriety,
sooo....scary. I just kept coming back and that stage did pass. So hang in
there because dreaming nightmares is not nearly as bad as living them in
drunken oblivion. When you awaken try the Serenity Prayer and tell yourself
it's "just for today". It works! I know, because after 6.5 years my lifelong
hopes and dreams are coming true. The Twelve Promises. Check it out on page
83 in the AA Big Book.
Talk to ya Later.........Evey

"Bpyboy" <bpyboy@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031014184403.19814.00000351@mb-m07.aol.com...
> Hi guys,
> Been quite busy lately, and so not posting like I mean to.
>
> I was wondering about something though. I have been in recovery for a
couple
> months now, excersising religiously, eating (a lot more) properly....
>
> I FINALLY let my doctor into the loop a couple weeks ago, and just last
week
> complained to him about this maddening insomnia that I have. (always had,
> since I was a kid).
>
> He prescribed some Ambian (sp?) and wants me to see a psychologist or
other
> therapist (more on that next week).
>
> Anyways, I DO feel a lot better with the ambian, as it lets me get about
5-6
> hours of sleep. I'd prefer not to take drugs for insomnia, but it's
really
> frustrating that with a job now, and with excersise and proper diet, and
no
> booze, i STILL don't sleep.
>
> My particular problem is this: when I can sleep well enough to have
dreams,
> they tend to be VERY dark and disturbing. All kinds of weird sexually
oriented
> things (not even nice ones--rather sick and nasty things) and weird
medival
> combat, or getting chased by dogs and Gestapo.
>
> It's really troubling, as the dreams are so intense and real that while
> sleeping I don't know that it's a dream. What's more troubling still is
that i
> have NO IDEA where they are coming from. I laid off reading creepy books
or
> watching creepy films before going to sleep, and have no real world experi
ence
> with any of the things (alien abductions---who knows?)
>
> Just this morning I was literally JOLTED awake, about 3 am, with a
terrible
> dream, but still kind of goofed up on sleeping meds, and sweating terribly
and
> panting (like I said, it was REAL!), i sort of laid there with one eye
open
> until time to get up and brush my teeth.
>
> Did any of you guys have an experience with intense/bad dreams while in
early
> recovery?
>
> The problem is, I don't know if it's that my mind works well enough now to
> conjure up the thoughts (as a consequence of not drinking myself to sleep,
or
> passing out), or if it's to do with the drugs (a really moderate and well
> regulated dose), or both.
>
> Like I said, I have NEVER been able to sleep well, and had problems with
it
> even as a little kid, all the way through high school and into adulthood.
So I
> don't really have a very good reference frame in the first place.
>
> I have an appointment with a shrink early next week to check into it, and
> decided with the help of my doctor that the "side effect" of the bad
dreams is
> a lot better than the symptom of not getting any sleep (in my early
college
> years, I once spent 13 days awake, without any drugs, minus cigarettes--an
it
> went down hill from there).
>
> Just wanted to throw it out there and see what some of you guys think
about it.
> My doctor (who is an internalist, and not a psych. of any kind) seems to
think
> it's a bipolar disorder. I tend to agree, as my father had it, and so do
a
> couple others in my family.
> It's all new to me, and since i sort of came to adulthood drunk most of
the
> time, I don't really know what i SHOULD be going through, just that the
dreams
> and nightmares and depression are getting unbearable.
> For now i'm just sucking it up. The blood tests come out ok, and it seems
i'm
> in reasonably good health, and getting a bit better without booze and with
> morning jogging and having a job (which is active, and also prevents heavy
> smoking). My blood pressure is down and into the normal/healthy range, my
> liver seems to be functioning ok, my heart rate is going down from some CV
> workouts.... So I don't think it's really a PHYSICAL problem, but
something
> wrong between my ears.
>
> Still, staying off the booze is important, and figuring out underlying
causes
> is more important than anything. I went through some hell to get that
far, (a
> couple months ago) but am STILL going through hell, but on a much more
concious
> and less physical level than drying out was.
> Thanks for any war stories/advice to hold me over for my MD next week.
>
> it's all just pissing me off, because this trouble is causing me nearly
the
> same grief as waking up to hangovers was, or the dull thinking from
> drunken/passed out sleep. or the drunken days. Not quite as bad, but
still
> really dull thinking. And it's like I KNOW there is more in there, but
i'm so
> tired and wiped out that I can't retrive it when I would like to.
>
> thanks guys. Looking into it with some medical help. They actually want
to
> pay ME for a study! Can you imagine, I get paid for medical help! Write
that
> one on your calender, it won't happen again until hell needs ice cubes!
They
> want me to do some sleep studies at the hospital and see some brain
activity
> while i'm sleeping.
>
> The joys of relying on university medical care--another student who's
broke and
> can't sleep--let's check out what's going on in his brain! Hit him with a
cab
> and $30, and he'll be ok!
>
> Thanks guys,
> John.

[rosie read and post]

> I wasn't talking to your alter ego, RRAP. I'd rather french kiss a
> rattlesnake than let that little AIDs infested maggot anywhere near
me.


i'm sure its time for you to sleep................

[Blue Moon]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:10:34 GMT, "rosie read and post"
<readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>> I wasn't talking to your alter ego, RRAP. I'd rather french kiss a
>> rattlesnake than let that little AIDs infested maggot anywhere near
>me.
>
>
>i'm sure its time for you to sleep................

Given your active endorsement of drugs, I would expect to be slightly
surprised at your antagonism against someone who is prescribed some.
However, for some reason, I'm not.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:37:42 -0500, "rosie read and post"
<readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Alcohol CAUSES depression,
>
>YES, it certainly can!
>MOST folks find that their depression "lifts" after putting the plug in
>the jug and working on some kind of recovery.
>that name for depression of that type is SITUATIONAL DEPRESSION.

And in the original poster's case, I'd suggest working that recovery
rather than wasting time with psychos. Given a few weeks' sobriety,
it would be impossible for them to differentiate "situational" from
"clinical" depression at this time.

--
Blue Moon

[Devon Brown]

This is one of the saddest threads that I have read. Someone asks for help
then he is ignored whist everybody else goes on an ego tip. It is said that
"some are sicker than others" and I know that that has applied to me on many
occasions but I do believe it also applies to many contributers here. Please
ask yourselves what are the reasons for your contributions. Are they for
your information or are they for the help ofsomeone else or for the group? I
know that sometimes someone can get really under our skin but the way to
rectify that is to ignore them not to getinvolved in a fight. For those of
you who have no interest in staying sober or in helping others this will be
meaningless, but for those of you who are, think of the reaction of someone
looking for help after reading this thread. I am sorry that I have been
critical but I felt I had to.

[rosie read and post]

"Evey" <eveylyn@gosympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:Trnjb.3666$Z_2.360733@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
>............................ So hang in
> there because dreaming nightmares is not nearly as bad as living them
in
> drunken oblivion..................

AMEN!

[rosie read and post]

> Given your active endorsement of drugs, I would expect to be slightly
> surprised at your antagonism against someone who is prescribed some.
> However, for some reason, I'm not.
>
> --
> Blue Moon



my endorsement for the use of antidepressants in recovery is well known!
the FRAUD being perpetrated in here by moonie is another matter all
together.
go ahead and justify his crap if you want, THAT wouldn't surprise me at
all!

[rosie read and post]

"Devon Brown" <devonbrown@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:3f8e7b1b@212.67.96.135...
> This is one of the saddest threads that I have read. Someone asks for
help
> then he is ignored whist everybody else goes on an ego tip.

devon,
i don't believe that john's question was ignored, the thread however DID
take a turn, as threads in USENET commonly do.
stick around, "sadder" threads are common here!












It is said that
> "some are sicker than others" and I know that that has applied to me
on many
> occasions but I do believe it also applies to many contributers here.
Please
> ask yourselves what are the reasons for your contributions. Are they
for
> your information or are they for the help ofsomeone else or for the
group? I
> know that sometimes someone can get really under our skin but the way
to
> rectify that is to ignore them not to getinvolved in a fight. For
those of
> you who have no interest in staying sober or in helping others this
will be
> meaningless, but for those of you who are, think of the reaction of
someone
> looking for help after reading this thread. I am sorry that I have
been
> critical but I felt I had to.
>
>

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tYvjb.29792$%C5.6060@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > Given your active endorsement of drugs, I would expect to be slightly
> > surprised at your antagonism against someone who is prescribed some.
> > However, for some reason, I'm not.
> >
> > --
> > Blue Moon
>
>
>
> my endorsement for the use of antidepressants in recovery is well known!
> the FRAUD being perpetrated in here by moonie is another matter all
> together.
> go ahead and justify his crap if you want, THAT wouldn't surprise me at
> all!
>
>

KISS MY ENTIRE ASS, Ms. Blabandblather.

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:WZvjb.29798$%C5.6058@twister.rdc-> i > stick around, "sadder" threads
are common here!


There weren't near as many before YOUR sorry ass descended on this group.

[rosie read and post]

(((((((((((((((((((moonie))))))))))))))))))))))))

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

Love cures. It cures those who give it and it cures those who receive
it.
.......................Dr. Karl Menninger





"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:7Nwjb.2090$ft2.262@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:WZvjb.29798$%C5.6058@twister.rdc-> i > stick around, "sadder"
threads
> are common here!
>
>
> There weren't near as many before YOUR sorry ass descended on this
group.
>
>
>
>

[rosie read and post]

(((((((((((((((moonie)))))))))))))))

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

Love cures. It cures those who give it and it cures those who receive
it.
.......................Dr. Karl Menninger





"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:5Lwjb.2089$ft2.1929@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:tYvjb.29792$%C5.6060@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > > Given your active endorsement of drugs, I would expect to be
slightly
> > > surprised at your antagonism against someone who is prescribed
some.
> > > However, for some reason, I'm not.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Blue Moon
> >
> >
> >
> > my endorsement for the use of antidepressants in recovery is well
known!
> > the FRAUD being perpetrated in here by moonie is another matter all
> > together.
> > go ahead and justify his crap if you want, THAT wouldn't surprise me
at
> > all!
> >
> >
>
> KISS MY ENTIRE ASS, Ms. Blabandblather.
>
>

[Blue Moon]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:07:39 -0400, "Moonraker"
<moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
>"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:WZvjb.29798$%C5.6058@twister.rdc-> i > stick around, "sadder" threads
>are common here!
>
>There weren't near as many before YOUR sorry ass descended on this group.

This is true. As I recall, some kept lamenting about how quiet the
newsgroup had become.

I don't believe that's ever been said since Rosie appeared.

So they got their wish.

The very nature of any unmoderated usenet newsgroup means that more
activity = more noise.

The lesson? Be careful what you wish for.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:17:15 -0500, "rosie read and post"
<readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Given your active endorsement of drugs, I would expect to be slightly
>> surprised at your antagonism against someone who is prescribed some.
>> However, for some reason, I'm not.
>
>my endorsement for the use of antidepressants in recovery is well known!
>the FRAUD being perpetrated in here by moonie is another matter all
>together.
>go ahead and justify his crap if you want, THAT wouldn't surprise me at
>all!

I have no need to justify anything, and that includes my own usage of
drugs including asthma medication and antihistamines.

Personally I tend to steer clear of those antihistamines that cause
drowsiness because I really don't like the side-effect even though
they can be wonderful with the allergy symptom.

--
Blue Moon

[rosie read and post]

> The lesson? Be careful what you wish for.
>
> --
> Blue Moon

the lesson?
take your OWN inventory!
(we all went "off the deep end" there!)

[Blue Moon]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:59:47 -0500, "rosie read and post"
<readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> The lesson? Be careful what you wish for.
>
>the lesson?
>take your OWN inventory!

Okay, then I won't point out that you also probably do good for some
of the newcomers :) Having an active group isn't necessarily a bad
thing, but it DOES create the same proportion of noise. As I said, be
careful what you wish for... those who wish for a more active group
are going to get a more noisy group.

--
Blue Moon

[rosie read and post]

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

Love cures. It cures those who give it and it cures those who receive
it.
.......................Dr. Karl Menninger





"Blue Moon" <mfoco_uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:48b6da8c2ed1550bed669ce055da4d77@news.teranew s.com...


>
> Okay, then I won't point out that you also probably do good for some
> of the newcomers :)


thank you!

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Qkyjb.30369$%C5.2185@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> > The lesson? Be careful what you wish for.
> >
> > --
> > Blue Moon
>
> the lesson?
> take your OWN inventory!
> (we all went "off the deep end" there!)
>
>

"*We* all"?????????

"Take *your* own inventory" ????????

Poopski, it is intriguing how you personalise your claimed credits here, yet
freely share any imagined blame;-)

Another irony is how you've been way out of your depth ever since you
arrived here, ineptly acting out your "lifesaver" role. Where could you
claim Blue went "off the deep end" in this thread?

Bob

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
news:MU0Fa.72106$jT4.1515242@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> i stay in ARAA (with an active killfile) to share my experience, strength
and hope and to remind those who come, that
> these few folks ARE NOT a sample of the loving understanding, that can be
found in AA and other support groups!

[rosie read and post]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, robert checks in!

((((((((((((((((((robert))))))))))))))))))))))))

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

Love cures. It cures those who give it and it cures those who receive
it.
.......................Dr. Karl Menninger

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qpBjb.31048$%C5.21774@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, robert checks in!
>
> ((((((((((((((((((robert))))))))))))))))))))))))
>
> --

Obviously you're still a cyber slut.

Bob

[Moonraker]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bmmnjv$oiucl$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Qkyjb.30369$%C5.2185@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> >
> > > The lesson? Be careful what you wish for.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Blue Moon
> >
> > the lesson?
> > take your OWN inventory!
> > (we all went "off the deep end" there!)
> >
> >
>
> "*We* all"?????????
>
> "Take *your* own inventory" ????????
>
> Poopski, it is intriguing how you personalise your claimed credits here,
yet
> freely share any imagined blame;-)

Rosie's step10 : "And when we were wrong, promptly changed the subject and
found somebody else to blame."

>
> Another irony is how you've been way out of your depth ever since you
> arrived here, ineptly acting out your "lifesaver" role.

Aw, what an ugly thought. Being on a lifeboat with the Queen of Blabber,
and then marooned on a desert island.

Where could you
> claim Blue went "off the deep end" in this thread?

"........and found somebody else to blame."


>
> Bob
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
> news:MU0Fa.72106$jT4.1515242@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > i stay in ARAA (with an active killfile) to share my experience,
strength
> and hope and to remind those who come, that
> > these few folks ARE NOT a sample of the loving understanding, that can
be
> found in AA and other support groups!
>
>

[Kai]

rosie read and post wrote:
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:zX%ib.108236$eS5.64395@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
>> have you done your fifth step yet? that's when I started sleeping like a
>> log.
>>
>
> ROTFLMAO!

You are a disgusting thing, aren't you? Not the fact that you're mean and
extremely self-centered, there's plenty of those in this environment both online
and offline, but that you're in such denial of these qualities. It's like you
have this one-person religion with you as the god of it. And to think I gave you
the benefit of the doubt a while ago. What a waste of a perfectly good instant
judgement.

Kai

[rosie read and post]

so sorry you feel that way kai, i would suggest if its important to
you, that you do some investigation before making a judgment about me
and my relationship with my HP. those who know me, would not describe
me, as you have.
you have NO IDEA why shaw makes me laugh, and you are making some big
assumptions.

my email is accurate if you wish to get at the truth.

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

Love cures. It cures those who give it and it cures those who receive
it.
.......................Dr. Karl Menninger





"Kai" <soberon@*NOSPAM*luukku.com> wrote in message
news:bmol7h$egl$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
>
>
> rosie read and post wrote:
> > "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:zX%ib.108236$eS5.64395@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
> >> have you done your fifth step yet? that's when I started sleeping
like a
> >> log.
> >>
> >
> > ROTFLMAO!
>
> You are a disgusting thing, aren't you? Not the fact that you're mean
and
> extremely self-centered, there's plenty of those in this environment
both online
> and offline, but that you're in such denial of these qualities. It's
like you
> have this one-person religion with you as the god of it. And to think
I gave you
> the benefit of the doubt a while ago. What a waste of a perfectly good
instant
> judgement.
>
> Kai
>
>

[Kai]

rosie read and post wrote:
> so sorry you feel that way kai, i would suggest if its important to
> you, that you do some investigation before making a judgment about me
> and my relationship with my HP. those who know me, would not describe
> me, as you have.

No biggie, Usenet crackpots are not a rarity, I've come across a few before you.

> you have NO IDEA why shaw makes me laugh, and you are making some big
> assumptions.

You made it quite clear in the subsequent posts. Like calling him a fraud, for
instance.

>
> my email is accurate if you wish to get at the truth.

Good. I'll relay it to a long-time e-mail acquaintance of mine, Dr. Uba Yega of
Nigeria.

Kai

[rosie read and post]

>
> No biggie, Usenet crackpots are not a rarity, I've come across a few
before you.
>



Little pot, do not call the kettle black until you have been in
the fire as long as she has!

.... Sequichie

[Moonraker]

"rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gPRjb.36510$%C5.25283@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> >
> > No biggie, Usenet crackpots are not a rarity, I've come across a few
> before you.
> >
>
>
>
> Little pot, do not call the kettle black until you have been in
> the fire as long as she has!
>
> ... Sequichie
>
>
Ahhhhh, the "mommy knows best" age card gets played again.

[Shawster]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:0mTjb.12718$5n.8910@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> "rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:gPRjb.36510$%C5.25283@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > >
> > > No biggie, Usenet crackpots are not a rarity, I've come across a few
> > before you.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Little pot, do not call the kettle black until you have been in
> > the fire as long as she has!
> >
> > ... Sequichie
> >
> >
> Ahhhhh, the "mommy knows best" age card gets played again.
>

It's amazing how much Rosie tries to utilize power and control issues. I
never really thought about it applied to a relationship like this, but now
it is so obvious.

http://www.menweb.org/pcwheel.htm

She minimizes other's feelings, and ideas. She is dismissive and ridiculing.

She tries to intimidate through secret collusion, and authority.

isolation... emotional abuse.

wow.

Now, in response I can expect a dismissive comment, like calling me hon,
sweetie, or giving me a virtual hug. (minimization)

or I can expect to be called a good ol' boy or have my name munged to
something offensive like Moonie, or BM.

or I am not old enough to understand.

it's all about the power isn't it?

or course "we" are all wrong and she is right.


>
>
>

[rosie read and post]

>
> She minimizes other's feelings, and ideas. She is dismissive and
ridiculing.
>
> She tries to intimidate through secret collusion, and authority.


ROTFLMAO!
oh shaw.............................LOL!

Little pot, do not call the kettle black until you have been in
the fire as long as she has!

... Sequichie

[Moonraker]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9YZjb.161662$Of2.4361099@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
>
> "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:0mTjb.12718$5n.8910@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > "rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:gPRjb.36510$%C5.25283@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > No biggie, Usenet crackpots are not a rarity, I've come across a few
> > > before you.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Little pot, do not call the kettle black until you have been in
> > > the fire as long as she has!
> > >
> > > ... Sequichie
> > >
> > >
> > Ahhhhh, the "mommy knows best" age card gets played again.
> >
>
> It's amazing how much Rosie tries to utilize power and control issues. I
> never really thought about it applied to a relationship like this, but now
> it is so obvious.
>
> http://www.menweb.org/pcwheel.htm
>
> She minimizes other's feelings, and ideas. She is dismissive and
ridiculing.
>
> She tries to intimidate through secret collusion, and authority.
>
> isolation... emotional abuse.
>
> wow.
>
> Now, in response I can expect a dismissive comment, like calling me hon,
> sweetie, or giving me a virtual hug. (minimization)
>
> or I can expect to be called a good ol' boy or have my name munged to
> something offensive like Moonie, or BM.
>
> or I am not old enough to understand.
>
> it's all about the power isn't it?
>
> or course "we" are all wrong and she is right.
>

Now, Shaw, honey chile, you gots to stop being one of dem good 'ol boys.
;>)

You couldn't have hit the nail more squarely on the head.

"Secret collusion"... wouldn't that be her "private email" that gives her
all her "support"? That mean, lonely old broad couldn't find a friend at a
dog pound if she had a porkchop tied around her neck.

[Shawster]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:L1%jb.7563$W77.5344@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:9YZjb.161662$Of2.4361099@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
> >
> > "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:0mTjb.12718$5n.8910@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> > >
> > > "rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:gPRjb.36510$%C5.25283@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No biggie, Usenet crackpots are not a rarity, I've come across a
few
> > > > before you.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Little pot, do not call the kettle black until you have been in
> > > > the fire as long as she has!
> > > >
> > > > ... Sequichie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Ahhhhh, the "mommy knows best" age card gets played again.
> > >
> >
> > It's amazing how much Rosie tries to utilize power and control issues.
I
> > never really thought about it applied to a relationship like this, but
now
> > it is so obvious.
> >
> > http://www.menweb.org/pcwheel.htm
> >
> > She minimizes other's feelings, and ideas. She is dismissive and
> ridiculing.
> >
> > She tries to intimidate through secret collusion, and authority.
> >
> > isolation... emotional abuse.
> >
> > wow.
> >
> > Now, in response I can expect a dismissive comment, like calling me hon,
> > sweetie, or giving me a virtual hug. (minimization)
> >
> > or I can expect to be called a good ol' boy or have my name munged to
> > something offensive like Moonie, or BM.
> >
> > or I am not old enough to understand.
> >
> > it's all about the power isn't it?
> >
> > or course "we" are all wrong and she is right.
> >
>
> Now, Shaw, honey chile, you gots to stop being one of dem good 'ol boys.
> ;>)
>
> You couldn't have hit the nail more squarely on the head.
>
> "Secret collusion"... wouldn't that be her "private email" that gives her
> all her "support"? That mean, lonely old broad couldn't find a friend at
a
> dog pound if she had a porkchop tied around her neck.

So was I right? did I get a ROTFLMAO or a hon?

[Moonraker]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3Xfkb.174819$Of2.4499969@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
>
> "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:L1%jb.7563$W77.5344@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:9YZjb.161662$Of2.4361099@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
> > >
> > > "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > > news:0mTjb.12718$5n.8910@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> > > >
> > > > "rosie read and post" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:gPRjb.36510$%C5.25283@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No biggie, Usenet crackpots are not a rarity, I've come across a
> few
> > > > > before you.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Little pot, do not call the kettle black until you have been in
> > > > > the fire as long as she has!
> > > > >
> > > > > ... Sequichie
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Ahhhhh, the "mommy knows best" age card gets played again.
> > > >
> > >
> > > It's amazing how much Rosie tries to utilize power and control issues.
> I
> > > never really thought about it applied to a relationship like this, but
> now
> > > it is so obvious.
> > >
> > > http://www.menweb.org/pcwheel.htm
> > >
> > > She minimizes other's feelings, and ideas. She is dismissive and
> > ridiculing.
> > >
> > > She tries to intimidate through secret collusion, and authority.
> > >
> > > isolation... emotional abuse.
> > >
> > > wow.
> > >
> > > Now, in response I can expect a dismissive comment, like calling me
hon,
> > > sweetie, or giving me a virtual hug. (minimization)
> > >
> > > or I can expect to be called a good ol' boy or have my name munged to
> > > something offensive like Moonie, or BM.
> > >
> > > or I am not old enough to understand.
> > >
> > > it's all about the power isn't it?
> > >
> > > or course "we" are all wrong and she is right.
> > >
> >
> > Now, Shaw, honey chile, you gots to stop being one of dem good 'ol boys.
> > ;>)
> >
> > You couldn't have hit the nail more squarely on the head.
> >
> > "Secret collusion"... wouldn't that be her "private email" that gives
her
> > all her "support"? That mean, lonely old broad couldn't find a friend
at
> a
> > dog pound if she had a porkchop tied around her neck.
>
> So was I right? did I get a ROTFLMAO or a hon?
>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +
Cut and pasted for your reading pleasure:

ROTFLMAO!
oh shaw.............................LOL!

Exactly as you predicted.....

[Shawster]

> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No biggie, Usenet crackpots are not a rarity, I've come across
a
> > few
> > > > > > before you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Little pot, do not call the kettle black until you have been in
> > > > > > the fire as long as she has!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ... Sequichie
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Ahhhhh, the "mommy knows best" age card gets played again.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > It's amazing how much Rosie tries to utilize power and control
issues.
> > I
> > > > never really thought about it applied to a relationship like this,
but
> > now
> > > > it is so obvious.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.menweb.org/pcwheel.htm
> > > >
> > > > She minimizes other's feelings, and ideas. She is dismissive and
> > > ridiculing.
> > > >
> > > > She tries to intimidate through secret collusion, and authority.
> > > >
> > > > isolation... emotional abuse.
> > > >
> > > > wow.
> > > >
> > > > Now, in response I can expect a dismissive comment, like calling me
> hon,
> > > > sweetie, or giving me a virtual hug. (minimization)
> > > >
> > > > or I can expect to be called a good ol' boy or have my name munged
to
> > > > something offensive like Moonie, or BM.
> > > >
> > > > or I am not old enough to understand.
> > > >
> > > > it's all about the power isn't it?
> > > >
> > > > or course "we" are all wrong and she is right.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Now, Shaw, honey chile, you gots to stop being one of dem good 'ol
boys.
> > > ;>)
> > >
> > > You couldn't have hit the nail more squarely on the head.
> > >
> > > "Secret collusion"... wouldn't that be her "private email" that gives
> her
> > > all her "support"? That mean, lonely old broad couldn't find a friend
> at
> > a
> > > dog pound if she had a porkchop tied around her neck.
> >
> > So was I right? did I get a ROTFLMAO or a hon?
> >
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +
> Cut and pasted for your reading pleasure:
>
> ROTFLMAO!
> oh shaw.............................LOL!
>
> Exactly as you predicted.....
>

now, to find out how she justifies it. does she use her step ten and change
the topic? ignore it completely? or go back to more patronization?

gosh, I can hardly wait to find out.


>
>
>
>
>