9-8-06

[readandpostrosie]

From "We Asked His Protection":
"A Higher Power had to have saved me, because
the doctors doubted that I would survive. I have
forgiven myself now and I enjoy a freedom I have
never before experienced. I've opened my heart
and mind to Him. The more I learn, the less I know
- a humbling fact - but I sincerely want to keep
growing. . . . As long as I am honest with myself
and ask for His help, I can maintain this rewarding
existence.

"Just for today, I strive to live His will for me - soberly."

© 1990 AAWS, Inc.;
Daily Reflections, pg. 260
************************************************** ******

[F.H.]

readandpostrosie wrote:
> From "We Asked His Protection":
> "A Higher Power had to have saved me, because
> the doctors doubted that I would survive. I have
> forgiven myself now and I enjoy a freedom I have
> never before experienced. I've opened my heart
> and mind to Him. The more I learn, the less I know
> - a humbling fact - but I sincerely want to keep
> growing. . . . As long as I am honest with myself
> and ask for His help, I can maintain this rewarding
> existence.

For balance a snippet from Gary's link the other day:

Spirituality: An Evidence-Based
Practice for Treatment and Recovery

Most of the 11,000 treatment programs in the country introduce their
clients to some form of spirituality, usually based on the 12-Step
program of Alcoholics Anony-mous or Narcotics Anonymous (Roman & Blum,
1997). A growing number of programs offer alternative spiritualities —
such as yoga, Islam, Native American religions, or Christianity —
blending these practices with the 12-Step approach. Some refer clients
to secular support groups, such as Women for Sobriety or Secular
Organizations for Sobriety, which may still encourage members to develop
spiritually or to follow their own religion.

Publicly, professionals often downplay the spiritual roots of recovery,
as if they are embarrassed by this seemingly non-scientific,
old-fashioned notion. But take heart and be bold; spiritual
interventions are quintessentially evidence-based. Second, these also
appeal to many members of disadvantaged or minority groups, which
satisfies the demand for cultural competence and diversity. Third,
spiritual interventions are low-cost during treatment, and
self-sustaining and community-based after treatment. It’s the perfect
aftercare. Finally, recovery offers the oldest and most established form
of a faith-based solution, one that should be studied for lessons by
proponents of faith-based services.

Spirituality, that connection with some transcendent reality, truth, or
meaning, can exist outside religion — and religion may contain a range
of spiritual methods. Spirituality does not require belief in a God, but
beliefs alone do not constitute spirituality. What is necessary is for
those beliefs to lead to values through personal verification, for one’s
philosophy of life to be “vitalized by emotion” (Sapir, 1949).

[ScottyFLL@gmail.com]

F.H. wrote:
> readandpostrosie wrote:
> > From "We Asked His Protection":
> > "A Higher Power had to have saved me, because
> > the doctors doubted that I would survive. I have
> > forgiven myself now and I enjoy a freedom I have
> > never before experienced. I've opened my heart
> > and mind to Him. The more I learn, the less I know
> > - a humbling fact - but I sincerely want to keep
> > growing. . . . As long as I am honest with myself
> > and ask for His help, I can maintain this rewarding
> > existence.
>
> For balance a snippet from Gary's link the other day:
>
> Spirituality: An Evidence-Based
> Practice for Treatment and Recovery
>
> Most of the 11,000 treatment programs in the country introduce their
> clients to some form of spirituality, usually based on the 12-Step
> program of Alcoholics Anony-mous or Narcotics Anonymous (Roman & Blum,
> 1997). A growing number of programs offer alternative spiritualities -
> such as yoga, Islam, Native American religions, or Christianity -
> blending these practices with the 12-Step approach. Some refer clients
> to secular support groups, such as Women for Sobriety or Secular
> Organizations for Sobriety, which may still encourage members to develop
> spiritually or to follow their own religion.
>
> Publicly, professionals often downplay the spiritual roots of recovery,
> as if they are embarrassed by this seemingly non-scientific,
> old-fashioned notion. But take heart and be bold; spiritual
> interventions are quintessentially evidence-based. Second, these also
> appeal to many members of disadvantaged or minority groups, which
> satisfies the demand for cultural competence and diversity. Third,
> spiritual interventions are low-cost during treatment, and
> self-sustaining and community-based after treatment. It's the perfect
> aftercare. Finally, recovery offers the oldest and most established form
> of a faith-based solution, one that should be studied for lessons by
> proponents of faith-based services.
>
> Spirituality, that connection with some transcendent reality, truth, or
> meaning, can exist outside religion - and religion may contain a range
> of spiritual methods. Spirituality does not require belief in a God, but
> beliefs alone do not constitute spirituality. What is necessary is for
> those beliefs to lead to values through personal verification, for one's
> philosophy of life to be "vitalized by emotion" (Sapir, 1949).

This is wonderful. Thank you!

How I connected to spirituality is a long story. Short version: I
ended up in a jail cell. Me!!!! Nice friendly intelligent
not-so-bad-looking have-all-my-teeth ME!!! It came to me, what I call
a "realization":

"I can't do this any more. The jig is up. The party's over. I've
tried every possible way to drink without severe consequences, and
there IS no way, for me." (This, after 12 years in the program, mostly
sober, but with some severe relapses.) There's nothing like a jail
cell to help you realize what "powerlessness" means.

After I got out (charges dropped), I'd look up at the sky at night,
something I've always liked to do. I've always wondered why the stars
and moon and planets are there. It occurred to me: I do not know why
the stars are there. I do not know why the other planets are out
there. I do not HAVE to know these things. I AM NOT GOD.

The actual "white light" experience happened some time after this,
shortly after 90 days sober. I felt an energy from outside connect to
something inside that received it. I instinctively knew that this is
the energy many call God. I focused on it because I wanted to know
what it was, and what it was not.

There was no color, no language, no sound, no gender, no judgment, no
taste, no smell. There wasn't really a light, either. But it WAS a
sensation, that I could feel physically, coming from "outer space" into
my belly right under my belly button, and into an internal place that I
can't quite describe.

I felt protected, I felt that this power had been trying to connect for
some time. I did not feel judged. I knew that I did not experience
this because of anything special about me, but I feel special for
having experienced it. I knew that the vast majority of people would
not feel this (we'd be hearing about it if they did).

The experience has changed my life. But I've always had one problem
with it: How do I relate this experience to others so that they might
feel the same thing?

Scott S

[Ted L.]

<ScottyFLL@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157742897.886417.115190@e3g2000cwe.googlegro ups.com...
>
> The experience has changed my life. But I've always had one problem
> with it: How do I relate this experience to others so that they might
> feel the same thing?
>

It's called step 12.

What do you think the message is, though?

--
Ted L.

Benedictus, qui venit in nomine Domini.

[ScottyFLL@gmail.com]

Ted L. wrote:
> <ScottyFLL@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1157742897.886417.115190@e3g2000cwe.googlegro ups.com...
> >
> > The experience has changed my life. But I've always had one problem
> > with it: How do I relate this experience to others so that they might
> > feel the same thing?
> >
>
> It's called step 12.
>
> What do you think the message is, though?
>
> --
> Ted L.
>
> Benedictus, qui venit in nomine Domini.

That is the problem -- putting the experience into words that really
convey what I experienced. Because there were no words with the
experience, only my best ability to "translate" a physical message into
a mental one. It's hard to explain.

The message for me was simply that this power exists. I had been sure
it didn't.

Scott S

[F.H.]

ScottyFLL@gmail.com wrote:
> F.H. wrote:
>> readandpostrosie wrote:
>>> From "We Asked His Protection":
>>> "A Higher Power had to have saved me, because
>>> the doctors doubted that I would survive. I have
>>> forgiven myself now and I enjoy a freedom I have
>>> never before experienced. I've opened my heart
>>> and mind to Him. The more I learn, the less I know
>>> - a humbling fact - but I sincerely want to keep
>>> growing. . . . As long as I am honest with myself
>>> and ask for His help, I can maintain this rewarding
>>> existence.
>> For balance a snippet from Gary's link the other day:
>>
>> Spirituality: An Evidence-Based
>> Practice for Treatment and Recovery
>>
>> Most of the 11,000 treatment programs in the country introduce their
>> clients to some form of spirituality, usually based on the 12-Step
>> program of Alcoholics Anony-mous or Narcotics Anonymous (Roman & Blum,
>> 1997). A growing number of programs offer alternative spiritualities -
>> such as yoga, Islam, Native American religions, or Christianity -
>> blending these practices with the 12-Step approach. Some refer clients
>> to secular support groups, such as Women for Sobriety or Secular
>> Organizations for Sobriety, which may still encourage members to develop
>> spiritually or to follow their own religion.
>>
>> Publicly, professionals often downplay the spiritual roots of recovery,
>> as if they are embarrassed by this seemingly non-scientific,
>> old-fashioned notion. But take heart and be bold; spiritual
>> interventions are quintessentially evidence-based. Second, these also
>> appeal to many members of disadvantaged or minority groups, which
>> satisfies the demand for cultural competence and diversity. Third,
>> spiritual interventions are low-cost during treatment, and
>> self-sustaining and community-based after treatment. It's the perfect
>> aftercare. Finally, recovery offers the oldest and most established form
>> of a faith-based solution, one that should be studied for lessons by
>> proponents of faith-based services.
>>
>> Spirituality, that connection with some transcendent reality, truth, or
>> meaning, can exist outside religion - and religion may contain a range
>> of spiritual methods. Spirituality does not require belief in a God, but
>> beliefs alone do not constitute spirituality. What is necessary is for
>> those beliefs to lead to values through personal verification, for one's
>> philosophy of life to be "vitalized by emotion" (Sapir, 1949).
>
> This is wonderful. Thank you!
>
> How I connected to spirituality is a long story. Short version: I
> ended up in a jail cell. Me!!!! Nice friendly intelligent
> not-so-bad-looking have-all-my-teeth ME!!! It came to me, what I call
> a "realization":
>
> "I can't do this any more. The jig is up. The party's over. I've
> tried every possible way to drink without severe consequences, and
> there IS no way, for me." (This, after 12 years in the program, mostly
> sober, but with some severe relapses.) There's nothing like a jail
> cell to help you realize what "powerlessness" means.
>
> After I got out (charges dropped), I'd look up at the sky at night,
> something I've always liked to do. I've always wondered why the stars
> and moon and planets are there. It occurred to me: I do not know why
> the stars are there. I do not know why the other planets are out
> there. I do not HAVE to know these things. I AM NOT GOD.
>
> The actual "white light" experience happened some time after this,
> shortly after 90 days sober. I felt an energy from outside connect to
> something inside that received it. I instinctively knew that this is
> the energy many call God. I focused on it because I wanted to know
> what it was, and what it was not.
>
> There was no color, no language, no sound, no gender, no judgment, no
> taste, no smell. There wasn't really a light, either. But it WAS a
> sensation, that I could feel physically, coming from "outer space" into
> my belly right under my belly button, and into an internal place that I
> can't quite describe.
>
> I felt protected, I felt that this power had been trying to connect for
> some time. I did not feel judged. I knew that I did not experience
> this because of anything special about me, but I feel special for
> having experienced it. I knew that the vast majority of people would
> not feel this (we'd be hearing about it if they did).
>
> The experience has changed my life. But I've always had one problem
> with it: How do I relate this experience to others so that they might
> feel the same thing?
>
> Scott S

Thanks back at ya Scott. This is the Achilles heel of spirituality and
of being human. There is an *overwhelming* urge, almost compulsion to
share peak experiences. It is key to the formation of organized belief
systems. A great potential for good *and* bad. There is a pretty much
guaranteed evolutionary process where the "authorities" (the ones
chosen to define, protect and carry the message) become authoritarian.
When it gets to the latter stage is when the fireworks begin. I've
posted often here about "peak experiences." I think it's role (pink
cloud could be a variation) in sobriety is not well understood.

In a similar experience to yours, I think I had the beginning of an
epiphany in the back seat of a police car. :)

[lestat]

I don't ask for His protection. It's nice to see about the miracles of
God curing people, but the only thing that I feel will get a person
through an illness is their will to survive. Don't mean to disrespect
you and that is not my intention. I had to quit. I have HepC, but even
that didn't make me quit when I was first diagnosed with it. My wake-up
call came when I would be driving to friend's houses and completely
forget where they lived, and look around and have no clue as to even
where I was. I had to write all of my friend's numbers on a piece of
paper to call them if I forgot how to get to their house. I know I'd
eventually mowed down a pedestrian and have no clue about it. I chose
to detox myself at my house with a friend of mine in the medical
profession to monitor me. It was pure fucking hell. But it worked. I've
slipped one time, but got my senses together, and am doing fine. Even
went to a friend's Labor Day party and stayed sober. I guess my point
is to do whatever you do and no matter what it takes to stay
alcohol-free. From reading your post I don't think that will be a
problem for you.

readandpostrosie wrote:
> From "We Asked His Protection":
> "A Higher Power had to have saved me, because
> the doctors doubted that I would survive. I have
> forgiven myself now and I enjoy a freedom I have
> never before experienced. I've opened my heart
> and mind to Him. The more I learn, the less I know
> - a humbling fact - but I sincerely want to keep
> growing. . . . As long as I am honest with myself
> and ask for His help, I can maintain this rewarding
> existence.
>
> "Just for today, I strive to live His will for me - soberly."
>
> © 1990 AAWS, Inc.;
> Daily Reflections, pg. 260
> ************************************************** ******