Abstinence vs. AA

[Smitty]

x-no-archive: yes

Hello group

I need to stop drinking. I know AA works. I grew up at AA meetings, my
mother keeping her head straight, and not able to afford a sitter all
the time. I must have attended hundreds as a child. She was very
committed to her recovery, thank God.

But, she got SO into it that I am turned off by it. She still fancies
herself an addiction counselor with no formal training in it. She loves
to "diagnose" people's psychological and / or psychiatric problems with
no formal training in that, either. It's more than a preoccupation with
her, it's part of nearly every conversation I have with her. I have had
arguments with her about her diagnoses of my friends, etc., and of me.
I have reminded her she's not a shrink. And I am not the only one to
point out the fact that it's rude and presumptuous to go around
diagnosing people based on reading books, some of which are well-known,
some of which are hacky, questionable and lack bibliographies. I have
become educated enough to recognize the difference.

There is nothing for which I am more thankful than my mother's sobriety.
I have to accept that other stuff because it's unimportant in the big
picture. It is because of that and her dedication to AA that I am alive
and sane. However - I am an alcoholic. There is no questioning it,
however I may vascillate. I need to stop drinking. The slippery slope
of cutting down has failed time and again, as it has recently. I am
home from work today because of "food poisioning", aka, a wicked
hangover. It is getting out of control again. I don't drink every day,
but I do drink far, far too much. I binge drink like the world is
running out of booze. I don't get in the car any more, because a few
years ago, I caused a serious accident while drunk. Hmm... there might
just be a problem here. The way I know I'm an alcoholic is to look at
all the damage I've caused to my health and to things in general,
acknowledge that it's because of my drinking habits, but to keep right
on slugging 'em down.

Have any of you quit drinking successfully without a 12-step program?
If so, what other resources have you used? My family are drinkers. My
few friends are too. It's gonna be really hard to do the people and
places thing. I'd have to pick up and basically leave my entire life
behind. I can't do that.

Thanks for your help
Smitty

[Seņor Coconut]

In article <43F2338A.1060409@thanks.spam>, no@thanks.spam says...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Hello group
>
> I need to stop drinking. I know AA works. I grew up at AA meetings, my
> mother keeping her head straight, and not able to afford a sitter all
> the time. I must have attended hundreds as a child. She was very
> committed to her recovery, thank God.
>
> But, she got SO into it that I am turned off by it. She still fancies
> herself an addiction counselor with no formal training in it. She loves
> to "diagnose" people's psychological and / or psychiatric problems with
> no formal training in that, either. It's more than a preoccupation with
> her, it's part of nearly every conversation I have with her. I have had
> arguments with her about her diagnoses of my friends, etc., and of me.
> I have reminded her she's not a shrink. And I am not the only one to
> point out the fact that it's rude and presumptuous to go around
> diagnosing people based on reading books, some of which are well-known,
> some of which are hacky, questionable and lack bibliographies. I have
> become educated enough to recognize the difference.
>
> There is nothing for which I am more thankful than my mother's sobriety.
> I have to accept that other stuff because it's unimportant in the big
> picture. It is because of that and her dedication to AA that I am alive
> and sane. However - I am an alcoholic. There is no questioning it,
> however I may vascillate. I need to stop drinking. The slippery slope
> of cutting down has failed time and again, as it has recently. I am
> home from work today because of "food poisioning", aka, a wicked
> hangover. It is getting out of control again. I don't drink every day,
> but I do drink far, far too much. I binge drink like the world is
> running out of booze. I don't get in the car any more, because a few
> years ago, I caused a serious accident while drunk. Hmm... there might
> just be a problem here. The way I know I'm an alcoholic is to look at
> all the damage I've caused to my health and to things in general,
> acknowledge that it's because of my drinking habits, but to keep right
> on slugging 'em down.
>
> Have any of you quit drinking successfully without a 12-step program?
> If so, what other resources have you used? My family are drinkers. My
> few friends are too. It's gonna be really hard to do the people and
> places thing. I'd have to pick up and basically leave my entire life
> behind. I can't do that.
>
Then keep drinking I guess. Some of your friends will
get pissed cuz you won't drink with them. So what? They'll
go away. Potheads make better friends, anyway.

--
f = n_1 n_2 \langle \sigma v \rangle

http://www.geocities.com/woogawooga99/

Too weird to live, and too
rare to die. -Hunter S. Thomson

"Some people can only dream of such a life.
I lived it. I was watching television the
other day, a biography on the history channel
of Aristotle Onasis. They talked about his
wealth, his riches, and I wasn't impressed.
I had bigger boats than he did, bigger yachts.
I had more Rolls-Royces, more Ferraris. I had
more racehorses than he did. I screwed more
women than he did. And they were better looking too."
--Evel Knievel


'I don't like Abos, I don't like Jews,
I don't like Muslims, I don't like Asians,
I don't like women, I don't like gays, I don'
like wrinklies, I don't like kids', -- Rabbi Apple

'PER ARDUA AD ASTRA!'

'...that's for all you illiterate folks out
there!' - Bob Tilton

[Smitty]

x-no-archive: yes

(snip)

>>
>>Have any of you quit drinking successfully without a 12-step program?
>>If so, what other resources have you used? My family are drinkers. My
>>few friends are too. It's gonna be really hard to do the people and
>>places thing. I'd have to pick up and basically leave my entire life
>>behind. I can't do that.
>>
>
> Then keep drinking I guess. Some of your friends will
> get pissed cuz you won't drink with them. So what? They'll
> go away. Potheads make better friends, anyway.
>

I was a bigtime pothead until I got put on probation for that drunken
car crash. The irony is that I am just getting sicker with the alcohol
abuse, because booze doesn't stay in your pee. I don't drink like this
if I can have a toke. I quit cigarettes, too. That month in jail helped.

I feel really stupid after writing that. How ridiculous, man...

[BeenThereGotAMug]

Smitty wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Hello group
>
> I need to stop drinking. I know AA works.
It works for some. It fails for others.
Right time, right place, right people, the right attitude,
it can work.

>
> Have any of you quit drinking successfully without a 12-step program? If

My drinking got so bad, that even probation at work, health problems, AA
couldn't stop me. Eventually Dr's help, rehap got me towards getting my
life back.

> so, what other resources have you used? My family are drinkers. My few
> friends are too. It's gonna be really hard to do the people and places
> thing. I'd have to pick up and basically leave my entire life behind.

If you get sober with a goal to stay sober with getting your life back,
you can live around social drinkers. Really .... but

Do you need other problems in your life with being around drunks ?

> I can't do that.

It all comes down to choice and control.

Your'd be surprised what you can do if you want it.
Actually, if your *friends* only like you as a drunk,
and not Smitty, what does tell you ?
>
> Thanks for your help
> Smitty
>

God bless.

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[Smitty]

x-no-archive: yes

BeenThereGotAMug wrote:
> Smitty wrote:
>
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
>> Hello group
>>
>> I need to stop drinking. I know AA works.
>
> It works for some. It fails for others.
> Right time, right place, right people, the right attitude,
> it can work.
>

I would hate to try and fail at this point, then say to heck with it...
and just get worse...

>>
>> Have any of you quit drinking successfully without a 12-step program? If
>
>
> My drinking got so bad, that even probation at work, health problems, AA
> couldn't stop me. Eventually Dr's help, rehap got me towards getting my
> life back.
>

Well, I'm glad you finally found what did work. You and I could both be
dead, I'm sure. And, you are here trying to help people out.

How many times did I drive wasted... don't want to think about it.
Thousands? One time, I almost killed people. The judge was not fond of
me. I guess that's when I hit bottom, but I've slid back into abuse out
of complacency and denying it's that big of a deal. It's maddening.

I fear I will end up not being able to fake controlling it much longer,
and cause more damage to my life. I have to act before I get in serious
trouble. I have to find some other outlet. It's so hard, the cravings
hit you and it's so easy to give in. At least I'm not out on the roads
any more. Of that much I am sure. I've been spending more and more
money on cabs lately, and that's no good.

>> so, what other resources have you used? My family are drinkers. My
>> few friends are too. It's gonna be really hard to do the people and
>> places thing. I'd have to pick up and basically leave my entire life
>> behind.
>
>
> If you get sober with a goal to stay sober with getting your life back,
> you can live around social drinkers. Really .... but
>
> Do you need other problems in your life with being around drunks ?
>

I know what you're saying... there are a few people I don't talk to any
more (or much) because we just drink ourselves stupid together. The
stories are all old to me. I gotta grow up, I'm not a kid any more.
The "do you know what you did, ha ha" makes me feel ashamed and badly
about myself. It's such a pain in the butt, this disease. At least I
understand the basics, but it doesn't help my watering mouth when I pass
100 places that sell booze every day

>> I can't do that.
>
>
> It all comes down to choice and control.
>

Yeah... only I can do anything, really. I have to prove I can go
without when the temptation gets bad, and then just feel good about it
and remember that feeling. I want to post back in here and say, "I
avoided the roomful of drunks" or "I didn't drink with them". Just
ONCE. That's my first goal.

> Your'd be surprised what you can do if you want it.
> Actually, if your *friends* only like you as a drunk,
> and not Smitty, what does tell you ?
>

I know what you mean. It's just hard to determine where that line is.
I don't want to admit to myself that these people don't necessarily like
-me- per se. It's got to be a painful process.

Man, I have to get a grip and think seriously about what to DO here.
Thanks for letting me bend your ear and not getting all self-righteous
on me. There is more than one solution to most problems, and while that
is one, I don't believe it to be the solution to my problem. I think
the key must be that belief.

>>
>> Thanks for your help
>> Smitty
>>
>
> God bless.
>

Many thanks, man...

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[Subliminal Messages]

Smitty, Your on the right course
with the right attitude.
I happen to be in Texas and when
I stopped I was meetings all the
time, it I've met some good people
there.

[Smitty]

x-no-archive: yes

Subliminal Messages wrote:
> Smitty, Your on the right course
> with the right attitude.

Thanks a lot. I appreciate the encouragement.

You know what? I actually skipped happy hour tonight. I said no
thanks, and just came home and made dinner and read stuff online. Not a
huge leap, but today, I am sober.

> I happen to be in Texas and when
> I stopped I was meetings all the
> time, it I've met some good people
> there.
>

I may attend meetings at some point. What I have to focus on is how not
to drink the rest of today. Tomorrow, I'll worry about tomorrow.

Yours,
Smitty

[DaveB]

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 02:28:50 GMT, Smitty <no@thanks.spam> wrote:


>> <snip>
>I may attend meetings at some point. What I have to focus on is how not
>to drink the rest of today. Tomorrow, I'll worry about tomorrow.
>
>Yours,
>Smitty
>
>
Great concept eh?

Good Luck
Daveb

[BeenThereGotAMug]

Smitty wrote:

>
> I may attend meetings at some point. What I have to focus on is how not
> to drink the rest of today. Tomorrow, I'll worry about tomorrow.

There you go.
A small change in behaviour yields results.
Actually, one day is all we can all handle.

> Yours,
> Smitty
>
>

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[Foundryrat]

Smitty wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Subliminal Messages wrote:
>
>> Smitty, Your on the right course
>> with the right attitude.
>
>
> Thanks a lot. I appreciate the encouragement.
>
> You know what? I actually skipped happy hour tonight. I said no
> thanks, and just came home and made dinner and read stuff online. Not a
> huge leap, but today, I am sober.
>
>> I happen to be in Texas and when
>> I stopped I was meetings all the
>> time, it I've met some good people
>> there.
>>
>
> I may attend meetings at some point. What I have to focus on is how not
> to drink the rest of today. Tomorrow, I'll worry about tomorrow.
>
> Yours,
> Smitty
>
>
yep good thinking whether you do meetings or not
that's the thinking man. One day at a time.
Don't worry about tommorrow as today has enuf
problems. Don't drink for today. etc. etc. I
need to get my head out of my ass now!

[Robert McGregor]

"Foundryrat" <foundryrat27@SPAMFREEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uTUIf.1157$SZ2.264@fe05.lga...
>>
>>
> I need to get my head out of my ass now!

How do you propose to do that?

If your version of "good thinking" got it there in the first place,
do you think you can shit it out again?

Bob;-)

[Foundryrat]

Robert McGregor wrote:
> "Foundryrat" <foundryrat27@SPAMFREEyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:uTUIf.1157$SZ2.264@fe05.lga...
>
>>>
>>I need to get my head out of my ass now!
>
>
> How do you propose to do that?
>
> If your version of "good thinking" got it there in the first place,
> do you think you can shit it out again?
>
> Bob;-)
>
>
i was just saying that is a good way to think,.
Not aa way just good thinking.

I didn't say i'm sober cause of it.

I've been sober and thinking like that is the way
to do it.

man just because i'm not perfect like you and not
sober today why you have to be such an ass.
Sometimes you seem like you have good intentions
and help. Sometimes you are just an outright ass,.

[Robert McGregor]

"Foundryrat" <foundryrat27@SPAMFREEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:KZVIf.1170$SZ2.729@fe05.lga...
> Robert McGregor wrote:
>> "Foundryrat" <foundryrat27@SPAMFREEyahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:uTUIf.1157$SZ2.264@fe05.lga...
>>
>>>>
>>>I need to get my head out of my ass now!
>>
>>
>> How do you propose to do that?
>>
>> If your version of "good thinking" got it there in the first
>> place, do you think you can shit it out again?
>>
>> Bob;-)
> i was just saying that is a good way to think,. Not aa way just
> good thinking.
>
> I didn't say i'm sober cause of it.
>
> I've been sober and thinking like that is the way to do it.

As thinking like that didn't even keep you sober, what value is your
advice?

> man just because i'm not perfect like you

Better get your head out of your own before you start trying to lick
mine;-)

Bob

[Foundryrat]

Robert McGregor wrote:
> "Foundryrat" <foundryrat27@SPAMFREEyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:KZVIf.1170$SZ2.729@fe05.lga...
>
>>Robert McGregor wrote:
>>
>>>"Foundryrat" <foundryrat27@SPAMFREEyahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:uTUIf.1157$SZ2.264@fe05.lga...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I need to get my head out of my ass now!
>>>
>>>
>>>How do you propose to do that?
>>>
>>>If your version of "good thinking" got it there in the first
>>>place, do you think you can shit it out again?
>>>
>>>Bob;-)
>>
>>i was just saying that is a good way to think,. Not aa way just
>>good thinking.
>>
>>I didn't say i'm sober cause of it.
>>
>>I've been sober and thinking like that is the way to do it.
>
>
> As thinking like that didn't even keep you sober, what value is your
> advice?
>
>
>>man just because i'm not perfect like you
>
>
> Better get your head out of your own before you start trying to lick
> mine;-)
>
> Bob
>
>
i think your sobriety has turned you out to be an
asslicking assmunch.

My ass taste just fine unlike yours. Smoke
another cigarette why dontcha.

Eat your wive's pussy make her happy she deserves it.

Suck your own dick if you can bend over that far,

and if you can do better then that lick your own
asshole.

sincerely

Foundrat

[Foundryrat]

Robert McGregor wrote:
> "Foundryrat" <foundryrat27@SPAMFREEyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:KZVIf.1170$SZ2.729@fe05.lga...
>
>>Robert McGregor wrote:
>>
>>>"Foundryrat" <foundryrat27@SPAMFREEyahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:uTUIf.1157$SZ2.264@fe05.lga...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I need to get my head out of my ass now!
>>>
>>>
>>>How do you propose to do that?
>>>
>>>If your version of "good thinking" got it there in the first
>>>place, do you think you can shit it out again?
>>>
>>>Bob;-)
>>
>>i was just saying that is a good way to think,. Not aa way just
>>good thinking.
>>
>>I didn't say i'm sober cause of it.
>>
>>I've been sober and thinking like that is the way to do it.
>
>
> As thinking like that didn't even keep you sober, what value is your
> advice?
>
>
>>man just because i'm not perfect like you
>
>
> Better get your head out of your own before you start trying to lick
> mine;-)
>
> Bob
>
>
ahh fuck it fuck you mecgregerie lsd dxm oxycontin
cunto bitch

[marv002@hotmail.com]

Sounds like Foundryrat has developed a "resentment". Don't let it send
you to the bottle if you're doing well.

And I don't mean to sound holier than thou, I'm still fighting like
Smitty. Been to rehab twice, had as much as 9 months sober with many
shorter periods in between, been to hundreds of AA meetings and I still
don't have "It". I hear others saying things like "the desire to drink
just went away" or "It doesn't bother me anymore".

I would like to be one of those, but just like Smitty, I get drunk,
drink till I'm too sick to drink, get well, think I'm okay now and
start the whole process over. Unlike Smitty, I quit driving and
drinking about twenty years ago when my daughter was elected president
of S.A.A.D. (The other reason I quit driving is that I heard they
wouldn't let you have your booze in jail)

I've lost my wife, had to quit work because I've ruined my health with
cigarettes and booze and my kids (grown) still tiptoe around me because
even though I try to hide it, they know I still drink.

I guess I'm still in the same boat as Smitty.

[Smitty]

DaveB wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 02:28:50 GMT, Smitty <no@thanks.spam> wrote:
>
>
>
>>><snip>
>>
>>I may attend meetings at some point. What I have to focus on is how not
>>to drink the rest of today. Tomorrow, I'll worry about tomorrow.
>>
>>Yours,
>>Smitty
>>
>>
>
> Great concept eh?
>

Simple and elegant but a bitch to stick with

> Good Luck
> Daveb

[Smitty]

BeenThereGotAMug wrote:
> Smitty wrote:
>
>>
>> I may attend meetings at some point. What I have to focus on is how
>> not to drink the rest of today. Tomorrow, I'll worry about tomorrow.
>
>
> There you go.
> A small change in behaviour yields results.
> Actually, one day is all we can all handle.
>

And another night stares me in the face. The storm damaged things, my
bosses and others have been pissy, excuses excuses. I am still sober
but very agitated and and feeling entitled to make myself miserable!

I am REEEALLLLY trying to stay away from the beers that are still in the
fridge or the bar or whatever. Should pour that crap down the drain.
But why waste perfectly good misery? Ugh. Not a good day. Could have
been a lot worse. Gotta stick with it. How ridiculous it is to think
"why can't it be smooth sailing when I want to stay sober?" Cause it
never is. Life is life, deal with it dammit.

This last part was sort of an internal monologue

Smitty

[Smitty]

Foundryrat wrote:
> Smitty wrote:
>
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
>> Subliminal Messages wrote:
>>
>>> Smitty, Your on the right course
>>> with the right attitude.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks a lot. I appreciate the encouragement.
>>
>> You know what? I actually skipped happy hour tonight. I said no
>> thanks, and just came home and made dinner and read stuff online. Not
>> a huge leap, but today, I am sober.
>>
>>> I happen to be in Texas and when
>>> I stopped I was meetings all the
>>> time, it I've met some good people
>>> there.
>>>
>>
>> I may attend meetings at some point. What I have to focus on is how
>> not to drink the rest of today. Tomorrow, I'll worry about tomorrow.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Smitty
>>
>>
> yep good thinking whether you do meetings or not that's the thinking
> man. One day at a time. Don't worry about tommorrow as today has enuf
> problems. Don't drink for today. etc. etc. I need to get my head out
> of my ass now!

Thanks... I appreciate it.

Smitty

[i.bldg]

Smitty wrote:

> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Hello group
>
> I need to stop drinking. I know AA works. I grew up at AA meetings, my
> mother keeping her head straight, and not able to afford a sitter all
> the time. I must have attended hundreds as a child. She was very
> committed to her recovery, thank God.
>
> But, she got SO into it that I am turned off by it. She still fancies
> herself an addiction counselor with no formal training in it. She loves
> to "diagnose" people's psychological and / or psychiatric problems with
> no formal training in that, either. It's more than a preoccupation with
> her, it's part of nearly every conversation I have with her. I have had
> arguments with her about her diagnoses of my friends, etc., and of me. I
> have reminded her she's not a shrink. And I am not the only one to
> point out the fact that it's rude and presumptuous to go around
> diagnosing people based on reading books, some of which are well-known,
> some of which are hacky, questionable and lack bibliographies. I have
> become educated enough to recognize the difference.
>
> There is nothing for which I am more thankful than my mother's sobriety.
> I have to accept that other stuff because it's unimportant in the big
> picture. It is because of that and her dedication to AA that I am alive
> and sane. However - I am an alcoholic. There is no questioning it,
> however I may vascillate. I need to stop drinking. The slippery slope
> of cutting down has failed time and again, as it has recently. I am
> home from work today because of "food poisioning", aka, a wicked
> hangover. It is getting out of control again. I don't drink every day,
> but I do drink far, far too much. I binge drink like the world is
> running out of booze. I don't get in the car any more, because a few
> years ago, I caused a serious accident while drunk. Hmm... there might
> just be a problem here. The way I know I'm an alcoholic is to look at
> all the damage I've caused to my health and to things in general,
> acknowledge that it's because of my drinking habits, but to keep right
> on slugging 'em down.
>
> Have any of you quit drinking successfully without a 12-step program? If
> so, what other resources have you used? My family are drinkers. My few
> friends are too. It's gonna be really hard to do the people and places
> thing. I'd have to pick up and basically leave my entire life behind.
> I can't do that.
>
> Thanks for your help
> Smitty
>

Hi Smitty:

Here's a suggestion. There are tons of alcohol support resources on the
Web. Check them out and explore the ones that interest you. You could
also get a referral from your doctor. There are alternatives to A.A. out
there. But no matter which one you choose, it'll still be a day at a
time -- and some days are going to be better than others.

I tried to do it cold turkey. Didn't work. Tried reading the Bible
religiously, pun definitely intended. Didn't get past 30 days. Made a
bet with my company's director of medical services that I could stay
sober for a year. I got to 40 days and lost and -- check this out -- he
turned out to be a coke addict. That still cracks me up (slightly).

A.A worked for me because of the Steps and a lot of key people who
helped me along the way. It wasn't a cakewalk, but here I am, sober
after 20 years. It's clear that you love and admire your mom for what
she's done. You don't have to follow in her footsteps, but your program
doesn't have to be her program.

About your family and friends. You might be surprised at how supportive
they might be. Gettng sober doesn't mean that you're gonna wake up on
Mars. Yep, some things in your life will change, but most of the
everyday stuff won't. You will find out who your real friends are,
though. Funny how not drinking will do that.

I wish you the best. Hang in there.

i.bldg