Deciding between multiple alternatives

[Dudley Do Rite]

I need some insight, please.
I'm a little more than 6 months sober, attend 4-5 AA meetings a week, have a
sponsor and finished Steps 1 & 2 (officially) earlier this week.
I have a wife who's struggling with staying married to me and this whole
alcoholic thing and a daughter in 3rd grade.
I am a freelance consultant (sales and marketing automation) and only did
client work for 1 month (October) since getting sober. "Economic
insecurity" is kicking in as I only have a couple months worth of savings.

I decided (red flag #1!) that I wasn't handling the stress of being
self-employed very well and that perhaps a return to full-time employment
would be the best course to take. I had successful interviews but with the
Thanksgiving holiday and vacations, just wasn't hearing anything. Wednesday
11/30 I had lunch with a friend in the program who advised me not to site on
my laurels but to keep looking for work. I surfed around job boards and
stumbled upon a contract that is scoped almost identically to the last
successful freelance project I delivered AND the client is located in my
town. Was God putting this opportunity in front of me for a reason? So I
responded to the position Thursday 12/1. Friday 12/2 I got a verbal offer
from the full-time opportunity, though the money is over 20% less than I was
expecting it to be (I was very surprised). Later that day, I interviewed
with the recruiter for the freelance project, Tuesday 12/6 I interviewed
with the client - so far, so good there.

It's now been a week and I haven't responded to the verbal job offer yet.
The freelance client wants another round of interviews but not until next
Thursday 12/14! I don't feel good about holding the FTE offer at bay that
long but not sure if the freelance project will be awarded to me. The money
for the freelance job is almost twice what the FTE position is.

I pray and I pray and I pray for knowledge of God's will but I'm not getting
the obvious sign. And I don't have a clue what to do. I won't drink, but
darn. How do you folks go about making choices when you have multiple
alternatives? How does God (or your Higher Power) communicate to you? I
always "chased the dollars" in my drinking days, so I'm a little leery of
doing the same thing. I'm confused and thank you for letting me get this
out. If someone has something to share that perhaps might help guide me,
I'd appreciate hearing what's worked for you.

Thanks everyone.

steve

[DaveB]

On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 15:41:25 -0800, "Dudley Do Rite"
<lemondrop17@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I need some insight, please.
>I'm a little more than 6 months sober, attend 4-5 AA meetings a week, have a
>sponsor and finished Steps 1 & 2 (officially) earlier this week.
>I have a wife who's struggling with staying married to me and this whole
>alcoholic thing and a daughter in 3rd grade.
>I am a freelance consultant (sales and marketing automation) and only did
>client work for 1 month (October) since getting sober. "Economic
>insecurity" is kicking in as I only have a couple months worth of savings.
>
>I decided (red flag #1!) that I wasn't handling the stress of being
>self-employed very well and that perhaps a return to full-time employment
>would be the best course to take. I had successful interviews but with the
>Thanksgiving holiday and vacations, just wasn't hearing anything. Wednesday
>11/30 I had lunch with a friend in the program who advised me not to site on
>my laurels but to keep looking for work. I surfed around job boards and
>stumbled upon a contract that is scoped almost identically to the last
>successful freelance project I delivered AND the client is located in my
>town. Was God putting this opportunity in front of me for a reason? So I
>responded to the position Thursday 12/1. Friday 12/2 I got a verbal offer
>from the full-time opportunity, though the money is over 20% less than I was
>expecting it to be (I was very surprised). Later that day, I interviewed
>with the recruiter for the freelance project, Tuesday 12/6 I interviewed
>with the client - so far, so good there.
>
>It's now been a week and I haven't responded to the verbal job offer yet.
>The freelance client wants another round of interviews but not until next
>Thursday 12/14! I don't feel good about holding the FTE offer at bay that
>long but not sure if the freelance project will be awarded to me. The money
>for the freelance job is almost twice what the FTE position is.
>
>I pray and I pray and I pray for knowledge of God's will but I'm not getting
>the obvious sign. And I don't have a clue what to do. I won't drink, but
>darn. How do you folks go about making choices when you have multiple
>alternatives? How does God (or your Higher Power) communicate to you? I
>always "chased the dollars" in my drinking days, so I'm a little leery of
>doing the same thing. I'm confused and thank you for letting me get this
>out. If someone has something to share that perhaps might help guide me,
>I'd appreciate hearing what's worked for you.
>
>Thanks everyone.
>
>steve
>
>
>
> I always "chased the dollars" in my drinking days, so I'm a little leery of
>doing the same thing.

Maybe you already know the answer?
Good luck with your decision.

Best Regards
Daveb

[John Royer]

"Dudley Do Rite" <lemondrop17@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jfydnTDx9LW8iwfenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>I need some insight, please.
> I'm a little more than 6 months sober, attend 4-5 AA meetings a week, have
> a sponsor and finished Steps 1 & 2 (officially) earlier this week.


One night I was coming home and I was tired, dog tired. I was in a town
about an hour and a half away from my normal meeting for a Tuseday night. I
really didn't feel like going to a meeting. I waffled and then said Ok
Higher Power, what should I do"? The little voice said "Go" So I went. I
recieved that night a great opportunity. Had I not gone?

Perhaps it's time to take step 3?


> I have a wife who's struggling with staying married to me and this whole
> alcoholic thing and a daughter in 3rd grade.
> I am a freelance consultant (sales and marketing automation) and only did
> client work for 1 month (October) since getting sober. "Economic
> insecurity" is kicking in as I only have a couple months worth of savings.

The above is nothing new.
>
> I decided (red flag #1!) that I wasn't handling the stress of being
> self-employed very well and that perhaps a return to full-time employment
> would be the best course to take. I had successful interviews but with
> the Thanksgiving holiday and vacations, just wasn't hearing anything.
> Wednesday 11/30 I had lunch with a friend in the program who advised me
> not to site on my laurels but to keep looking for work. I surfed around
> job boards and stumbled upon a contract that is scoped almost identically
> to the last successful freelance project I delivered AND the client is
> located in my town. Was God putting this opportunity in front of me for a
> reason?

He can make you aware. You have to make the decision

So I
> responded to the position Thursday 12/1. Friday 12/2 I got a verbal offer
> from the full-time opportunity, though the money is over 20% less than I
> was expecting it to be (I was very surprised). Later that day, I
> interviewed with the recruiter for the freelance project, Tuesday 12/6 I
> interviewed with the client - so far, so good there.
>
> It's now been a week and I haven't responded to the verbal job offer yet.
> The freelance client wants another round of interviews but not until next
> Thursday 12/14! I don't feel good about holding the FTE offer at bay that
> long but not sure if the freelance project will be awarded to me.

Why not communicate with the FTE person? Be honest with them.


The money
> for the freelance job is almost twice what the FTE position is.
>
> I pray and I pray and I pray for knowledge of God's will but I'm not
> getting the obvious sign.

Thunderbolts?

And I don't have a clue what to do. I won't drink, but
> darn. How do you folks go about making choices when you have multiple
> alternatives? How does God (or your Higher Power) communicate to you?

Not by email, or maybe he does? Through one of us?

I
> always "chased the dollars" in my drinking days, so I'm a little leery of
> doing the same thing.

Sounds to me like he's telling you to take the lesser of two evils?

I'm confused and thank you for letting me get this
> out. If someone has something to share that perhaps might help guide me,
> I'd appreciate hearing what's worked for you.
>
> Thanks everyone.
>
> steve

[Robert McGregor]

"Dudley Do Rite" <lemondrop17@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jfydnTDx9LW8iwfenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..

>
> I pray and I pray and I pray for knowledge of God's will but I'm
> not getting the obvious sign. And I don't have a clue what to do.
> I won't drink, but darn. How do you folks go about making choices
> when you have multiple alternatives? How does God (or your Higher
> Power) communicate to you? I always "chased the dollars" in my
> drinking days, so I'm a little leery of doing the same thing. I'm
> confused and thank you for letting me get this out. If someone has
> something to share that perhaps might help guide me, I'd appreciate
> hearing what's worked for you.
>
> Thanks everyone.
>

Dudley's post is consistent with possibly the most consistent pleas
regarding the steps I heard during my AA stint. "How do I know what
God is saying?" and, "How can I possibly distinguish between God's
will, and my will?"

I see a similarity between 12 step recovery, and rally driving; where
a navigator is essential in order to complete the coarse without
probability of complete destruction.

Step one is admitting to the reality, like it or not, of being in the
race.

Step two is admitting to the possibility of obtaining an adequate
navigator.

Step three is deciding to allocate navigation to a navigator.

Step four is checking the steering gear for function, and the
windscreen for clarity.

(Essentials such as care of the motor, and type/quality/quantity of
fuel used, are not directly mentioned in the 12 steps)

Step five is confirmation of the preparation program.

Step six is commitment too the preparation program.

Step seven is formal acknowledgement that *perfect* preparation is
beyond the scope of the owner driver.

Step eight is preparing a steering repair list.

Step nine is commencing the repair program.

Step ten is cleaning the windscreen, in order to see where on earth
any navigator's instructions would be pertinent anyway.

Step eleven is thanking the navigator you're still in the event, then
asking which turn to take next.

Obviously, recovery, although a sequential process, is neither a time
trial, nor a race. However, Dudley wants the benefit of step eleven
navigation *before* even committing to a navigator, let alone
bothering to fix the steering and even clear the windscreen!

One of my most valuable realisations during recovery was that
regardless of an impeccable navigator, or not, the quicker I did my
bit the more sense *any* navigator's directions would make.
© Robert McGregor®

PS:
Just checked the AA website looking for the churn rate of AA in
answer Ragge's allegations of AA being difficult to get away from.
Instead I discovered AA are now arguably promoting their own
treatment industry two hatter sluts, http://tinyurl.com/962yr
certainly giving them credit they in no way deserve.

That © ® shit is just so fucken harlots like royer and rosie don't
keep legally stealing stuff posted here with which to convince
"clients" that unless they've been fucked by a *counsellor* they
could never have the spiritual orgasm and be perpetually recovering,
thus indebted to the prostitution industry in AA meetings and rehabs.


Bob

[Dudley Do Rite]

I think you mean well, Bob.
Your style's for shit but I'm sure you already know that.

Thanks Dave & John. FYI, I do believe I've taken Step 3 but until my
sponsor and I "officially" do it his way, I don't overstep my progress. In
quiet reflection over a pleasant dinner with my wife, discussing insights
from last evening's meeting, I realized that I was holding the freelance
contract out as a means of gently letting down the FTE position. It is too
low and it is a level or two beneath my skill set. The weight of anxiety
lifted as I accepted truth of my trying to manipulate the situation to save
face. I'm going to turn down the FTE position on Monday. If the contract
gig doesn't materialize, then I look for something else.

Thanks for helping me think through this with a more grounded perspective.

steve

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:439a5701_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
>
> "Dudley Do Rite" <lemondrop17@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:jfydnTDx9LW8iwfenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
>>
>> I pray and I pray and I pray for knowledge of God's will but I'm
>> not getting the obvious sign. And I don't have a clue what to do.
>> I won't drink, but darn. How do you folks go about making choices
>> when you have multiple alternatives? How does God (or your Higher
>> Power) communicate to you? I always "chased the dollars" in my
>> drinking days, so I'm a little leery of doing the same thing. I'm
>> confused and thank you for letting me get this out. If someone has
>> something to share that perhaps might help guide me, I'd appreciate
>> hearing what's worked for you.
>>
>> Thanks everyone.
>>
>
> Dudley's post is consistent with possibly the most consistent pleas
> regarding the steps I heard during my AA stint. "How do I know what
> God is saying?" and, "How can I possibly distinguish between God's
> will, and my will?"
>
> I see a similarity between 12 step recovery, and rally driving; where
> a navigator is essential in order to complete the coarse without
> probability of complete destruction.
>
> Step one is admitting to the reality, like it or not, of being in the
> race.
>
> Step two is admitting to the possibility of obtaining an adequate
> navigator.
>
> Step three is deciding to allocate navigation to a navigator.
>
> Step four is checking the steering gear for function, and the
> windscreen for clarity.
>
> (Essentials such as care of the motor, and type/quality/quantity of
> fuel used, are not directly mentioned in the 12 steps)
>
> Step five is confirmation of the preparation program.
>
> Step six is commitment too the preparation program.
>
> Step seven is formal acknowledgement that *perfect* preparation is
> beyond the scope of the owner driver.
>
> Step eight is preparing a steering repair list.
>
> Step nine is commencing the repair program.
>
> Step ten is cleaning the windscreen, in order to see where on earth
> any navigator's instructions would be pertinent anyway.
>
> Step eleven is thanking the navigator you're still in the event, then
> asking which turn to take next.
>
> Obviously, recovery, although a sequential process, is neither a time
> trial, nor a race. However, Dudley wants the benefit of step eleven
> navigation *before* even committing to a navigator, let alone
> bothering to fix the steering and even clear the windscreen!
>
> One of my most valuable realisations during recovery was that
> regardless of an impeccable navigator, or not, the quicker I did my
> bit the more sense *any* navigator's directions would make.
> © Robert McGregor®
>
> PS:
> Just checked the AA website looking for the churn rate of AA in
> answer Ragge's allegations of AA being difficult to get away from.
> Instead I discovered AA are now arguably promoting their own
> treatment industry two hatter sluts, http://tinyurl.com/962yr
> certainly giving them credit they in no way deserve.
>
> That © ® shit is just so fucken harlots like royer and rosie don't
> keep legally stealing stuff posted here with which to convince
> "clients" that unless they've been fucked by a *counsellor* they
> could never have the spiritual orgasm and be perpetually recovering,
> thus indebted to the prostitution industry in AA meetings and rehabs.
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>

[John Royer]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:439a5701_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
>
> "Dudley Do Rite" <lemondrop17@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:jfydnTDx9LW8iwfenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>

> That © ® shit is just so fucken harlots like royer and rosie don't
> keep legally stealing stuff posted here with which to convince
> "clients" that unless they've been fucked by a *counsellor* they
> could never have the spiritual orgasm and be perpetually recovering,
> thus indebted to the prostitution industry in AA meetings and rehabs.
>
>
> Bob

Uh? I must have missed something here!
You are calling me a harlot? Why?

[Robert McGregor]

"John Royer" <john.royer2@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:1pAmf.4433$PX2.429927@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> message news:439a5701_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
>>
>> "Dudley Do Rite" <lemondrop17@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:jfydnTDx9LW8iwfenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>
>
>> That © ® shit is just so fucken harlots like royer and rosie
>> don't
>> keep legally stealing stuff posted here with which to convince
>> "clients" that unless they've been fucked by a *counsellor* they
>> could never have the spiritual orgasm and be perpetually
>> recovering,
>> thus indebted to the prostitution industry in AA meetings and
>> rehabs.
>>
>>
>> Bob
>
> Uh? I must have missed something here!
> You are calling me a harlot? Why?
>

My comment was based on your comments.

"John Royer" <john.royer2@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:975mf.9098$kt5.701666@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
>
> "Ken" <nospam@nowhere.org> wrote in message
> news:34ydnfszqZKJ9gXeRVn-gw@comcast.com...
>>
>> You are some sort of "two-hatter," aren't you?
>
> No, just an honest person who is making a living trying to help
> people get better.

That's what honest harlots are, and do. The only difference may be
that ostensibly they fuck with bodies, you fuck with minds, although
arguably there is holistic unity of body and mind, either way.

Admittedly, having made a perhaps hasty presumption based on your
evasive description of your occupation, I may be obliged to retract
should you be an orthopaedic surgeon and choose to elaborate.

Bob

[John Royer]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:439af6b2_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
>
> "John Royer" <john.royer2@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:1pAmf.4433$PX2.429927@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
>>
>> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in
>> message news:439a5701_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
>>>
>>> "Dudley Do Rite" <lemondrop17@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:jfydnTDx9LW8iwfenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>>
>>
>>> That © ® shit is just so fucken harlots like royer and rosie
>>> don't
>>> keep legally stealing stuff posted here with which to convince
>>> "clients" that unless they've been fucked by a *counsellor* they
>>> could never have the spiritual orgasm and be perpetually
>>> recovering,
>>> thus indebted to the prostitution industry in AA meetings and
>>> rehabs.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob
>>
>> Uh? I must have missed something here!
>> You are calling me a harlot? Why?
>>
>
> My comment was based on your comments.
>
> "John Royer" <john.royer2@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:975mf.9098$kt5.701666@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
>>
>> "Ken" <nospam@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>> news:34ydnfszqZKJ9gXeRVn-gw@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> You are some sort of "two-hatter," aren't you?
>>
>> No, just an honest person who is making a living trying to help
>> people get better.
>
> That's what honest harlots are, and do. The only difference may be
> that ostensibly they fuck with bodies, you fuck with minds, although
> arguably there is holistic unity of body and mind, either way.
>
> Admittedly, having made a perhaps hasty presumption based on your
> evasive description of your occupation, I may be obliged to retract
> should you be an orthopaedic surgeon and choose to elaborate.
>
> Bob
Perhaps if I know the connotations ascribed to a "two hatter"?

[Ken]

John Royer wrote:

>Perhaps if I know the connotations ascribed to a "two hatter"?
>
>
John,

"Two-hatter" is an AA expression referring to an AA that is a
psychologist, psychiatrist, counselor, M.D. etc.

Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com

[John Royer]

"Ken" <nospam@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:aemdnfP1IfsxsAbeRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
> John Royer wrote:
>
>>Perhaps if I know the connotations ascribed to a "two hatter"?
> John,
>
> "Two-hatter" is an AA expression referring to an AA that is a
> psychologist, psychiatrist, counselor, M.D. etc.
>
> Ken Ragge
> http://www.morerevealed.com


Well then, I guess I'm a two hatter. However although I counsel and although
I am an AA'er I'm not a diehard. I believe abstinence is the best course. If
that can be achieved without AA then Bob's your uncle. If however someone
cannot abstain, I'll work on harm reduction. Eventually though, in most
cases, regression occurs and abstinence becomes the primary goal.

I'm not about to force someone who has a problem with spirituality to
swallow a worm they find unpalatable.

With regard to the studies, unfortuneatly numbers do lie, AA's and all the
others. I've seen it it many other human studies so why not here?

All treatment methods have about a 13% efficacy. Thats a given. What is
important is what happens to the person. The vast majority of the treatments
do not offer a fellowship (if you will). or are not as easy to access.

[Deirdre Hebert]

Hi Steve,
I was wondering, have you discussed with your wife which option she
might prefer? Perhaps you can show her that you are working on your
marriage, as well as your problems by asking her to help you make a
decision.
I think, if I were her, that I would be heartened to be considered in
the decisions you are making right now. Sometimes our higher powers
speak through our family.
Dee

[Robert McGregor]

"Deirdre Hebert" <deirdrehbrt@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:vtKmf.753$Y2.228@trndny04...

> Sometimes our higher powers speak through our family.

What greater expounder of God's will, than sponsor or spouse speaking
with divine authority!

Anyone ever heard someone, other than in jest, boasting of God
talking through the mouth of their spouse. Nah, with the exception of
struggling suckers, that particular rumour is only spread by those
obviously wanting us to think *they're* the voice of God.

Fortunately, from the beginning, AA was awake to that manipulative
caper. http://tinyurl.com/b2su6

Bob, .... whose mellifluous Godly vocal chords are outside; doing
push ups in the parking lot.

[Dudley Do Rite]

Dee,

Thanks for the reply. Yes - in fact, I did ask her input. What I received
in response were tears (not of joy) followed by wailing sobs about how she's
been through too much and doesn't know how to give input to a decision this
important and how she's not able to be the support I need, and on and on.
It threw me.

steve

"Deirdre Hebert" <deirdrehbrt@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:vtKmf.753$Y2.228@trndny04...
> Hi Steve,
> I was wondering, have you discussed with your wife which option she
> might prefer? Perhaps you can show her that you are working on your
> marriage, as well as your problems by asking her to help you make a
> decision.
> I think, if I were her, that I would be heartened to be considered in
> the decisions you are making right now. Sometimes our higher powers speak
> through our family.
> Dee

[Deirdre Hebert]

Robert McGregor wrote:
> "Deirdre Hebert" <deirdrehbrt@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:vtKmf.753$Y2.228@trndny04...
>
>
>>Sometimes our higher powers speak through our family.
>
>
> What greater expounder of God's will, than sponsor or spouse speaking
> with divine authority!
>
> Anyone ever heard someone, other than in jest, boasting of God
> talking through the mouth of their spouse. Nah, with the exception of
> struggling suckers, that particular rumour is only spread by those
> obviously wanting us to think *they're* the voice of God.
>
> Fortunately, from the beginning, AA was awake to that manipulative
> caper. http://tinyurl.com/b2su6
>
> Bob, .... whose mellifluous Godly vocal chords are outside; doing
> push ups in the parking lot.
>
>
>
Bob,
First, I don't think that (In your choice of formatting) *i'm* the
voice of god. I'm not even sure that there is a god. I do know though,
that I'm not the highest power in the universe. I do believe that the
good of the greater usually outweighs the good of the one. So, perhaps
the needs of the family might carry more weight than the needs of an
individual in that family. Perhaps the family is, in a sense, a higher
power than an individual member of that family. But though, using words
like mellifluous, you are smarter than I, and know better.
My point was this: Getting more input, especially when you are
undecided is often helpful in making a decision. Asking members of your
family for input shows them that you care about what they think, that
you want them to be a part of your life, that you value that relationship.
In Steve's case, his wife was angry when he asked her opinion. He did
ask, and he got a response, albeit a response that he wasn't expecting.
Was it a bad thing that he asked? I don't think so. He knows now how
much his wife is hurting. He knows more. The *higher power* of a valued
relationship has spoken and said that it might be in some trouble. He
knows that it might need some tender care. Is this a bad thing? Is
placing your family above yourself wrong?
I don't know alot. I do know though that you seem to be one of the
most vitriolic and angry people I have seen. With your brutum fulmen,
you seem most happy when you're scaring someone into submission, or
finding reason to criticize them. What's that all about? Do those of us
who think that they might just not be the supreme arbiters of our
individual universes somehow threaten you? or is it that you think we
are ignorant, and that ignorance threatens you?
I have to admit... the post you replied to was my first post here. I
have been reading for a while, and have seen your criticisms. I really
didn't expect to see what I had written attacked, but you managed to
find something that bothers you. Amazing, isn't it, what can get us going?
Dee.

[Robert McGregor]

"Deirdre Hebert" <deirdrehbrt@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:cQ_mf.1519$Bj4.1205@trndny01...
> My point was this: Getting more input, especially when you are
> undecided is often helpful in making a decision. Asking members of
> your family for input shows them that you care about what they
> think, that you want them to be a part of your life, that you value
> that relationship.

Very well put indeed!

Deidre, in this instance, had you actually made that point without
bullshitting on with that Higher Power crap, I would not have given
you cause to voice your vitriol.

Bob

[Minger]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:439bb3cd_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
>
> "Deirdre Hebert" <deirdrehbrt@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:vtKmf.753$Y2.228@trndny04...
>
>> Sometimes our higher powers speak through our family.
>
> What greater expounder of God's will, than sponsor or spouse speaking
> with divine authority!

Sometimes people come out with common sense -- even people we're struggling
with, or even people we hate.
Is that God speaking directly through them?
Probably not in most cases I'd say, but that doesn't make the common sense
any less worth listening to. (Or maybe it *is* God speaking through them --
what the hell do I know?!).
On quite a few occasions I've heard people I can't stand say things that
have been pretty wise & worth heeding. It's not just my friends who have a
monopoly on wisdom, after all.

[Robert McGregor]

Minger wrote:
> Sometimes people come out with common sense -- even people we're struggling
> with, or even people we hate.
> Is that God speaking directly through them?
> Probably not

Given the voice of God may in fact be superior to obvious limitations
of common sense, I agree.

Bob

[Minger]

"Minger" <mingers-r-us@swamp-monster.com> wrote in message
news:425rquF1hcmffU1@individual.net...
....
> Sometimes people come out with common sense -- even people we're
> struggling with, or even people we hate.
> Is that God speaking directly through them?
> Probably not in most cases I'd say...
....

I meant to post this before, but forgot.

This is from Numbers 22:28 in the Bible (i.e. the book of Numbers [in the
Old Testament], chapter 22, verse 28):
Then the Lord opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam: "What have
I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"
[New International Translation (NIV)]

Is that bullshit?

If someone believes that God created the heavens and the Earth (as I do),
then believing that God can make a donkey speak isn't unbelievable.

Otherwise it probably sounds ridiculously fanciful.

[Robert McGregor]

Minger wrote:
> "Minger" <mingers-r-us@swamp-monster.com> wrote in message
> news:425rquF1hcmffU1@individual.net...
> ...
> > Sometimes people come out with common sense -- even people we're
> > struggling with, or even people we hate.
> > Is that God speaking directly through them?
> > Probably not in most cases I'd say...
> ...
>
> I meant to post this before, but forgot.
>
> This is from Numbers 22:28 in the Bible (i.e. the book of Numbers [in the
> Old Testament], chapter 22, verse 28):
> Then the Lord opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam: "What have
> I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"
> [New International Translation (NIV)]
>
> Is that bullshit?
>
> If someone believes that God created the heavens and the Earth (as I do),
> then believing that God can make a donkey speak isn't unbelievable.
>
> Otherwise it probably sounds ridiculously fanciful.

Jeez, If God created the Heavens and the earth, it's common sense he
made a horrible fuck up with the earth bit, what with tsunamis cyclones
hurricanes typhoons earthquakes, and people. However must admit I've
heard donkey's speak at about every AA meeting I've ever attended

Bob

[DaveB]

On 5 Jan 2006 17:13:30 -0800, "Robert McGregor"
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>
>Minger wrote:
>> "Minger" <mingers-r-us@swamp-monster.com> wrote in message
>> news:425rquF1hcmffU1@individual.net...
>> ...
>> > Sometimes people come out with common sense -- even people we're
>> > struggling with, or even people we hate.
>> > Is that God speaking directly through them?
>> > Probably not in most cases I'd say...
>> ...
>>
>> I meant to post this before, but forgot.
>>
>> This is from Numbers 22:28 in the Bible (i.e. the book of Numbers [in the
>> Old Testament], chapter 22, verse 28):
>> Then the Lord opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam: "What have
>> I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"
>> [New International Translation (NIV)]
>>
>> Is that bullshit?
>>
>> If someone believes that God created the heavens and the Earth (as I do),
>> then believing that God can make a donkey speak isn't unbelievable.
>>
>> Otherwise it probably sounds ridiculously fanciful.
>
>Jeez, If God created the Heavens and the earth, it's common sense he
>made a horrible fuck up with the earth bit, what with tsunamis cyclones
>hurricanes typhoons earthquakes, and people. However must admit I've
>heard donkey's speak at about every AA meeting I've ever attended
>
>Bob
>
LOL, you beat me to it.

Regards
Daveb

[Dudley Do Rite]

God doesn't fuck up Bob.
Look up "Katrina" - it means 'cleansing'. Apply that knowledge as you will
to New Orleans and the gulf coast.

I went to New Orleans for a week and helped with the relief effort. Myself
and at least 30-40 others that I know who also went, are changed people.
Changed for the better. Multiply that by thousands of volunteers and tens
or hundreds of thousands of financial contributors. Bringing people
together in spiritual fellowship with practical application, reaching out to
our fellow human beings.

The cliche' "God works in mysterious ways" serves only as acknowledgement
that WE are the ignorant ones who can't discern the mystery. God knows what
He's doing. Get out of His way and watch the power He demonstrates in your
life.

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1136510010.096620.143750@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>
> Minger wrote:
>> "Minger" <mingers-r-us@swamp-monster.com> wrote in message
>> news:425rquF1hcmffU1@individual.net...
>> ...
>> > Sometimes people come out with common sense -- even people we're
>> > struggling with, or even people we hate.
>> > Is that God speaking directly through them?
>> > Probably not in most cases I'd say...
>> ...
>>
>> I meant to post this before, but forgot.
>>
>> This is from Numbers 22:28 in the Bible (i.e. the book of Numbers [in the
>> Old Testament], chapter 22, verse 28):
>> Then the Lord opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam: "What
>> have
>> I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"
>> [New International Translation (NIV)]
>>
>> Is that bullshit?
>>
>> If someone believes that God created the heavens and the Earth (as I do),
>> then believing that God can make a donkey speak isn't unbelievable.
>>
>> Otherwise it probably sounds ridiculously fanciful.
>
> Jeez, If God created the Heavens and the earth, it's common sense he
> made a horrible fuck up with the earth bit, what with tsunamis cyclones
> hurricanes typhoons earthquakes, and people. However must admit I've
> heard donkey's speak at about every AA meeting I've ever attended
>
> Bob
>

[Robert McGregor]

"Dudley Do Rite" <lemondrop17@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wsydnWctw445gF3eRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
> God doesn't fuck up Bob.
> Look up "Katrina" - it means 'cleansing'. Apply that knowledge as you
> will to New Orleans and the gulf coast.
>
> I went to New Orleans for a week and helped with the relief effort.
> Myself and at least 30-40 others that I know who also went, are changed
> people. Changed for the better. Multiply that by thousands of
> volunteers and tens or hundreds of thousands of financial contributors.
> Bringing people together in spiritual fellowship with practical
> application, reaching out to our fellow human beings.
>
> The cliche' "God works in mysterious ways" serves only as
> acknowledgement that WE are the ignorant ones who can't discern the
> mystery. God knows what He's doing. Get out of His way and watch the
> power He demonstrates in your life.

Apparently some sanctimonious arseholes are dependent on the calamity
of others to recharge the self righteousness of themselves. After all,
Katrina = Cleansing, so God smote New Orleans, wrecking lives of many
survivors for decades to come, just to enable people like Dudley to
demystify for a week or so (and boast about it for decades to come) in
a token gesture toward rectifying yet another fuck up of His creation.

Thugs, of both the material, and spiritual variety, profit from calamity.
Nothing mysterious about that, at all.

Bob

[Dudley Do Rite]

Wow. I'm not usually at a loss for words. This is twice now you've
directed your venom toward me.
Your words and their underlying accusation really hurt me.
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:43c03160$0$498$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...
>
> "Dudley Do Rite" <lemondrop17@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:wsydnWctw445gF3eRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
>> God doesn't fuck up Bob.
>> Look up "Katrina" - it means 'cleansing'. Apply that knowledge as you
>> will to New Orleans and the gulf coast.
>>
>> I went to New Orleans for a week and helped with the relief effort.
>> Myself and at least 30-40 others that I know who also went, are changed
>> people. Changed for the better. Multiply that by thousands of
>> volunteers and tens or hundreds of thousands of financial contributors.
>> Bringing people together in spiritual fellowship with practical
>> application, reaching out to our fellow human beings.
>>
>> The cliche' "God works in mysterious ways" serves only as
>> acknowledgement that WE are the ignorant ones who can't discern the
>> mystery. God knows what He's doing. Get out of His way and watch the
>> power He demonstrates in your life.
>
> Apparently some sanctimonious arseholes are dependent on the calamity
> of others to recharge the self righteousness of themselves. After all,
> Katrina = Cleansing, so God smote New Orleans, wrecking lives of many
> survivors for decades to come, just to enable people like Dudley to
> demystify for a week or so (and boast about it for decades to come) in
> a token gesture toward rectifying yet another fuck up of His creation.
>
> Thugs, of both the material, and spiritual variety, profit from calamity.
> Nothing mysterious about that, at all.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>

[rockhound]

Gotta be pretty pride-blinded not to have seen that one coming.

A bit too much basking in them golden rays'll do that to a guy...

Of course, i understand such sentiments, post survey of the wealthy's
havens in ruins, along the shores, who made life miserable for others,
now there was a breath of fresh air...not sure anything much really
changed a whole lot for anybody else...

Maybe the next step is for the missionaries to pay a fairer wage to
those off whose backs they rise so proudly?

On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 17:52:01 -0800, "Dudley Do Rite"
<lemondrop17@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Wow. I'm not usually at a loss for words. This is twice now you've
>directed your venom toward me.
>Your words and their underlying accusation really hurt me.
>"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>news:43c03160$0$498$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...
>>
>> "Dudley Do Rite" <lemondrop17@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:wsydnWctw445gF3eRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
>>> God doesn't fuck up Bob.
>>> Look up "Katrina" - it means 'cleansing'. Apply that knowledge as you
>>> will to New Orleans and the gulf coast.
>>>
>>> I went to New Orleans for a week and helped with the relief effort.
>>> Myself and at least 30-40 others that I know who also went, are changed
>>> people. Changed for the better. Multiply that by thousands of
>>> volunteers and tens or hundreds of thousands of financial contributors.
>>> Bringing people together in spiritual fellowship with practical
>>> application, reaching out to our fellow human beings.
>>>
>>> The cliche' "God works in mysterious ways" serves only as
>>> acknowledgement that WE are the ignorant ones who can't discern the
>>> mystery. God knows what He's doing. Get out of His way and watch the
>>> power He demonstrates in your life.
>>
>> Apparently some sanctimonious arseholes are dependent on the calamity
>> of others to recharge the self righteousness of themselves. After all,
>> Katrina = Cleansing, so God smote New Orleans, wrecking lives of many
>> survivors for decades to come, just to enable people like Dudley to
>> demystify for a week or so (and boast about it for decades to come) in
>> a token gesture toward rectifying yet another fuck up of His creation.
>>
>> Thugs, of both the material, and spiritual variety, profit from calamity.
>> Nothing mysterious about that, at all.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

[Robert McGregor]

"Dudley Do Rite" <lemondrop17@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:E4CdnXXIsM-h7V3eRVn-uA@comcast.com...
> Wow. I'm not usually at a loss for words. This is twice now you've
> directed your venom toward me.
> Your words and their underlying accusation really hurt me.

Venom? Towards you? Twice?

No!

The other instance I cannot recall. Nevertheless, as you seem to be
clinging to a resentment, it may help you to explicitly ask for an
explanation. In this instance however, it's simply that you chose to
enmesh yourself in the presentation of your opinions about otherwise
general concepts. Admittedly I inappropriately used the word "thugs" when
scammers would have sufficed. For that I unreservedly apologise.

Hopefully you are reading this reply, still, for I have possibly pertinent
experience to share with you.

One of the new freedoms I gained as a direct result of taking the steps
was freedom from entangling myself in my opinions, be they positive, or
negative. Regardless of what I opine, I am what I am. In order to live
comfortably sober, what I am is what I needed to learn to live with.

Part of my learning process involved religiously reading that AA tome,
"Daily Reflections" every day, in my case for two years. Rather than
ignore content I did not agree with, I chose to devote time in that day
investigating, as best I could, *why* I did not agree with that content. I
can assure you, Lemondrop, that was an invaluable learning experience.

Pats on the back from well meaning folks merely reinforce fallacies, but
kicks in the arse can give cause for question. That two years of learning
to question saves me still, from countless kicks in the arse.

HTH

Bob

> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> message
> news:43c03160$0$498$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...
>>
>> "Dudley Do Rite" <lemondrop17@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:wsydnWctw445gF3eRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
>>> God doesn't fuck up Bob.
>>> Look up "Katrina" - it means 'cleansing'. Apply that knowledge as you
>>> will to New Orleans and the gulf coast.
>>>
>>> I went to New Orleans for a week and helped with the relief effort.
>>> Myself and at least 30-40 others that I know who also went, are
>>> changed
>>> people. Changed for the better. Multiply that by thousands of
>>> volunteers and tens or hundreds of thousands of financial
>>> contributors.
>>> Bringing people together in spiritual fellowship with practical
>>> application, reaching out to our fellow human beings.
>>>
>>> The cliche' "God works in mysterious ways" serves only as
>>> acknowledgement that WE are the ignorant ones who can't discern the
>>> mystery. God knows what He's doing. Get out of His way and watch the
>>> power He demonstrates in your life.
>>
>> Apparently some sanctimonious arseholes are dependent on the calamity
>> of others to recharge the self righteousness of themselves. After all,
>> Katrina = Cleansing, so God smote New Orleans, wrecking lives of many
>> survivors for decades to come, just to enable people like Dudley to
>> demystify for a week or so (and boast about it for decades to come) in
>> a token gesture toward rectifying yet another fuck up of His creation.
>>
>> Thugs, of both the material, and spiritual variety, profit from
>> calamity.
>> Nothing mysterious about that, at all.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>