Australians reject HP to succeed with HM

[Robert McGregor]

More has been revealed ;)

Australian educators and rehabilitators led the world into proven
success by rejecting outdated 12 step God mythology and adopting
scientific "Harm Minimisation" http://tinyurl.com/76egq

"The 13 per cent of drivers aged under 25 who now believe using drugs
such as marijuana, cocaine, speed or ecstasy before driving does not
affect their motoring skills has almost tripled from about five per
cent in 2001, according to a study commissioned by insurer AAMI." ..

...... "While 22 per cent of young people reporting having mixed
recreational drugs with driving, 13 per cent of those aged 25 or
older doing this is also high," http://tinyurl.com/8bynq

Given what they're doing, how else could it be!

Bob

[Tommy]

"Robert McGregor" > More has been revealed ;)
>
> Australian educators and rehabilitators led the world into proven
> success by rejecting outdated 12 step God mythology and adopting
> scientific "Harm Minimisation" http://tinyurl.com/76egq
> Given what they're doing, how else could it be!
>
> Bob

Given that HM is just another name for Methadone over here, I don't
particularly agree with it.. (our version)

I always maintained that the Australian approach is or was the most
revolutionary.

Ta for the links Bob,
I'm a member of a forum here which does a bit of good work in the
drugs/addiction field. I'd like to be more involved, but age and ambition
are against me, well that and the fact that we don't get paid for it.

Cheers
Tommy

[Barnsey]

http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/gap/implement.html

Good work Robert.

[Tim and Lisa]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:43825ee7_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
> More has been revealed ;)
>
> Australian educators and rehabilitators led the world into proven
> success by rejecting outdated 12 step God mythology and adopting
> scientific "Harm Minimisation" http://tinyurl.com/76egq
>
> "The 13 per cent of drivers aged under 25 who now believe using drugs
> such as marijuana, cocaine, speed or ecstasy before driving does not
> affect their motoring skills has almost tripled from about five per
> cent in 2001, according to a study commissioned by insurer AAMI." ..
>
> ..... "While 22 per cent of young people reporting having mixed
> recreational drugs with driving, 13 per cent of those aged 25 or
> older doing this is also high," http://tinyurl.com/8bynq
>
> Given what they're doing, how else could it be!
>
> Bob
>
>


It sure never affected my driving either, drove for days as a matter of a
fact, but it sure interruped my living. ;o(

[Virtualoso]

In article <43825ee7_1@news.iprimus.com.au>, Robert McGregor
<robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> More has been revealed ;)
>
> Australian educators and rehabilitators led the world into proven
> success by rejecting outdated 12 step God mythology and adopting
> scientific "Harm Minimisation" http://tinyurl.com/76egq
>
> "The 13 per cent of drivers aged under 25 who now believe using drugs
> such as marijuana, cocaine, speed or ecstasy before driving does not
> affect their motoring skills has almost tripled from about five per
> cent in 2001, according to a study commissioned by insurer AAMI." ..
>
> ..... "While 22 per cent of young people reporting having mixed
> recreational drugs with driving, 13 per cent of those aged 25 or
> older doing this is also high," http://tinyurl.com/8bynq
>
> Given what they're doing, how else could it be!

How 'bout drinking?

[Virtualoso]

In article <qRugf.43664$QM5.14008@tornado.socal.rr.com>, Tim and Lisa
<tworkman1@socal.rr.com> wrote:

> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:43825ee7_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
> > More has been revealed ;)
> >
> > Australian educators and rehabilitators led the world into proven
> > success by rejecting outdated 12 step God mythology and adopting
> > scientific "Harm Minimisation" http://tinyurl.com/76egq
> >
> > "The 13 per cent of drivers aged under 25 who now believe using drugs
> > such as marijuana, cocaine, speed or ecstasy before driving does not
> > affect their motoring skills has almost tripled from about five per
> > cent in 2001, according to a study commissioned by insurer AAMI." ..
> >
> > ..... "While 22 per cent of young people reporting having mixed
> > recreational drugs with driving, 13 per cent of those aged 25 or
> > older doing this is also high," http://tinyurl.com/8bynq
> >
> > Given what they're doing, how else could it be!

> It sure never affected my driving either, drove for days as a matter of a
> fact, but it sure interruped my living. ;o(

Ever drive drunk? If so, how'd that go?

[Tim and Lisa]

"Virtualoso" <no@dot.com> wrote in message
news:211120051843038983%no@dot.com...
> In article <qRugf.43664$QM5.14008@tornado.socal.rr.com>, Tim and Lisa
> <tworkman1@socal.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in
>> message
>> news:43825ee7_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
>> > More has been revealed ;)
>> >
>> > Australian educators and rehabilitators led the world into proven
>> > success by rejecting outdated 12 step God mythology and adopting
>> > scientific "Harm Minimisation" http://tinyurl.com/76egq
>> >
>> > "The 13 per cent of drivers aged under 25 who now believe using drugs
>> > such as marijuana, cocaine, speed or ecstasy before driving does not
>> > affect their motoring skills has almost tripled from about five per
>> > cent in 2001, according to a study commissioned by insurer AAMI." ..
>> >
>> > ..... "While 22 per cent of young people reporting having mixed
>> > recreational drugs with driving, 13 per cent of those aged 25 or
>> > older doing this is also high," http://tinyurl.com/8bynq
>> >
>> > Given what they're doing, how else could it be!
>
>> It sure never affected my driving either, drove for days as a matter of a
>> fact, but it sure interruped my living. ;o(
>
> Ever drive drunk? If so, how'd that go?

Well I have no accidents to report, except nodding off at a red light once
and bumped the car in front of me. Cops showed up with me idling up against
the car they shut my car off and then woke me up and asked where I was, (and
I can still remember today) I tried to look around and they said with out
looking and I could not tell where I was. ;o(

[stuart]

Robert McGregor <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:43825ee7_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
> More has been revealed ;)
>
> Australian educators and rehabilitators led the world into proven
> success by rejecting outdated 12 step God mythology and adopting
> scientific "Harm Minimisation" http://tinyurl.com/76egq
>
> "The 13 per cent of drivers aged under 25 who now believe using drugs
> such as marijuana, cocaine, speed or ecstasy before driving does not
> affect their motoring skills has almost tripled from about five per
> cent in 2001, according to a study commissioned by insurer AAMI." ..
>
> ..... "While 22 per cent of young people reporting having mixed
> recreational drugs with driving, 13 per cent of those aged 25 or
> older doing this is also high," http://tinyurl.com/8bynq
>
> Given what they're doing, how else could it be!
>
> Bob

Dunna about Australai, Bob, but a really good little handbook for you is
"Robert's Rules of Order" for chairing committees.

Hey, I thought it was funny....

Nice work, Bob. I mean that. No joking this time, OK?

Stuart









>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Virtualoso]

In article <u3wgf.30831$Hs.22247@tornado.socal.rr.com>, Tim and Lisa
<tworkman1@socal.rr.com> wrote:

> "Virtualoso" <no@dot.com> wrote in message
> news:211120051843038983%no@dot.com...
> > In article <qRugf.43664$QM5.14008@tornado.socal.rr.com>, Tim and Lisa
> > <tworkman1@socal.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> >> message
> >> news:43825ee7_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
> >> > More has been revealed ;)
> >> >
> >> > Australian educators and rehabilitators led the world into proven
> >> > success by rejecting outdated 12 step God mythology and adopting
> >> > scientific "Harm Minimisation" http://tinyurl.com/76egq
> >> >
> >> > "The 13 per cent of drivers aged under 25 who now believe using drugs
> >> > such as marijuana, cocaine, speed or ecstasy before driving does not
> >> > affect their motoring skills has almost tripled from about five per
> >> > cent in 2001, according to a study commissioned by insurer AAMI." ..
> >> >
> >> > ..... "While 22 per cent of young people reporting having mixed
> >> > recreational drugs with driving, 13 per cent of those aged 25 or
> >> > older doing this is also high," http://tinyurl.com/8bynq
> >> >
> >> > Given what they're doing, how else could it be!
> >
> >> It sure never affected my driving either, drove for days as a matter of a
> >> fact, but it sure interruped my living. ;o(
> >
> > Ever drive drunk? If so, how'd that go?
>
> Well I have no accidents to report, except nodding off at a red light once
> and bumped the car in front of me. Cops showed up with me idling up against
> the car they shut my car off and then woke me up and asked where I was, (and
> I can still remember today) I tried to look around and they said with out
> looking and I could not tell where I was. ;o(

So you do have an accident to report? Was that booze driving or just
snooze driving?

[Tim and Lisa]

"Virtualoso" <no@dot.com> wrote in message
news:211120051955259841%no@dot.com...
> In article <u3wgf.30831$Hs.22247@tornado.socal.rr.com>, Tim and Lisa
> <tworkman1@socal.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> "Virtualoso" <no@dot.com> wrote in message
>> news:211120051843038983%no@dot.com...
>> > In article <qRugf.43664$QM5.14008@tornado.socal.rr.com>, Tim and Lisa
>> > <tworkman1@socal.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in
>> >> message
>> >> news:43825ee7_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
>> >> > More has been revealed ;)
>> >> >
>> >> > Australian educators and rehabilitators led the world into proven
>> >> > success by rejecting outdated 12 step God mythology and adopting
>> >> > scientific "Harm Minimisation" http://tinyurl.com/76egq
>> >> >
>> >> > "The 13 per cent of drivers aged under 25 who now believe using
>> >> > drugs
>> >> > such as marijuana, cocaine, speed or ecstasy before driving does not
>> >> > affect their motoring skills has almost tripled from about five per
>> >> > cent in 2001, according to a study commissioned by insurer AAMI." ..
>> >> >
>> >> > ..... "While 22 per cent of young people reporting having mixed
>> >> > recreational drugs with driving, 13 per cent of those aged 25 or
>> >> > older doing this is also high," http://tinyurl.com/8bynq
>> >> >
>> >> > Given what they're doing, how else could it be!
>> >
>> >> It sure never affected my driving either, drove for days as a matter
>> >> of a
>> >> fact, but it sure interruped my living. ;o(
>> >
>> > Ever drive drunk? If so, how'd that go?
>>
>> Well I have no accidents to report, except nodding off at a red light
>> once
>> and bumped the car in front of me. Cops showed up with me idling up
>> against
>> the car they shut my car off and then woke me up and asked where I was,
>> (and
>> I can still remember today) I tried to look around and they said with
>> out
>> looking and I could not tell where I was. ;o(
>
> So you do have an accident to report? Was that booze driving or just
> snooze driving?

Actually drove drunk a lot of times, but this time I nodded off on some
heroin.

[rosie read n' post]

are we to believe that this is the same robert mcgregor?

--

dear mr. bush,
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=4924#mistake



"stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:R3wgf.158724$Io.112843@clgrps13...
>
> Robert McGregor <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> message
> news:43825ee7_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
>> More has been revealed ;)
>>
>> Australian educators and rehabilitators led the world into proven
>> success by rejecting outdated 12 step God mythology and adopting
>> scientific "Harm Minimisation" http://tinyurl.com/76egq
>>
>> "The 13 per cent of drivers aged under 25 who now believe using drugs
>> such as marijuana, cocaine, speed or ecstasy before driving does not
>> affect their motoring skills has almost tripled from about five per
>> cent in 2001, according to a study commissioned by insurer AAMI." ..
>>
>> ..... "While 22 per cent of young people reporting having mixed
>> recreational drugs with driving, 13 per cent of those aged 25 or
>> older doing this is also high," http://tinyurl.com/8bynq
>>
>> Given what they're doing, how else could it be!
>>
>> Bob
>
> Dunna about Australai, Bob, but a really good little handbook for you
> is
> "Robert's Rules of Order" for chairing committees.
>
> Hey, I thought it was funny....
>
> Nice work, Bob. I mean that. No joking this time, OK?
>
> Stuart
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Barnsey]

"rosie read n' post" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nwxgf.3656$vq1.3288@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> are we to believe that this is the same robert mcgregor?
>
> --
>
> dear mr. bush,
> http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=4924#mistake
>

Yep...........he's been kicking arse in Alt Recovery From 12 Steps.

I believe he's making a film about the anti AA movement, as we speak.

[Barnsey]

"Barnsey" <the.barnseys_@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:Yjugf.252$ea6.103@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/gap/implement.html
>
> Good work Robert.

Robert, or Bob, as he likes to be called, is a legend in Australia.

He's sponsored thousands of suffering alkies, and even gone on a self funded
crusade across the Tasman Sea and saved 2 million traumatised sheep from
wayward New Zealanders.

He introduced a health initiative to save pigs from self mutilating too.

He called it "Ham Minimilisation"

He does 6 meetings a day, except in January.

The bloke who lifts him off and on his soap box is on annual leave in
January.

Don't put shit on Bob, OK.!!

He's a living Aussie Icon!

[Robert McGregor]

"Barnsey" <the.barnseys_@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:Yjugf.252$ea6.103@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> Good work Robert.
>

Thank you, Barnsey

I had hoped that someone of your presumed vastly superior
intelligence would eventually appreciate the merit of my humble
efforts here.

Must admit my hope was entirely dependent on which alternate side of
the proverbial couch you happened to be at the time; that of the
"health care" provider, not the recipient.

Humbled Bob

[Barnsey]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4382e437$0$75347$c30e37c6@ken-reader.news.telstra.net...
>
> "Barnsey" <the.barnseys_@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:Yjugf.252$ea6.103@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> Good work Robert.
>>
>
> Thank you, Barnsey
>
> I had hoped that someone of your presumed vastly superior intelligence
> would eventually appreciate the merit of my humble efforts here.
>
> Must admit my hope was entirely dependent on which alternate side of the
> proverbial couch you happened to be at the time; that of the "health care"
> provider, not the recipient.
>
> Humbled Bob

Bob, I do my best.

Keep doing yours.

[Bryce L. Martin]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 05:07:35 GMT, "Barnsey" <the.barnseys_@bigpond.com> wrote:

:|
:|"rosie read n' post" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
:|news:nwxgf.3656$vq1.3288@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
:|> are we to believe that this is the same robert mcgregor?
:|>
:|> --
:|>
:|> dear mr. bush,
:|> http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=4924#mistake
:|>
:|
:|Yep...........he's been kicking arse in Alt Recovery From 12 Steps.
:|
:|I believe he's making a film about the anti AA movement, as we speak.
:|
I hadn't heard about this, but God bless him if he is making such a film.


Have a nice day;

Bryce L. Martin

[Barnsey]

"Tommy" <tommyleprechaun@allcoolmusic.com> wrote in message
news:Bztgf.8805$D03.1236@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Robert McGregor" > More has been revealed ;)
>>
>> Australian educators and rehabilitators led the world into proven
>> success by rejecting outdated 12 step God mythology and adopting
>> scientific "Harm Minimisation" http://tinyurl.com/76egq
>> Given what they're doing, how else could it be!
>>
>> Bob
>
> Given that HM is just another name for Methadone over here, I don't
> particularly agree with it.. (our version)
>
> I always maintained that the Australian approach is or was the most
> revolutionary.
>
> Ta for the links Bob,
> I'm a member of a forum here which does a bit of good work in the
> drugs/addiction field. I'd like to be more involved, but age and ambition
> are against me, well that and the fact that we don't get paid for it.
>
> Cheers
> Tommy

Where's "over here" Tommy?

It's only because Bob the McBuilder has cross posted, I'm reading your
response.

I'd be interested to know other countries policies and experiences with
health initiatives like ours.

[Virtualoso]

In article <gpl6o11b81fkleh3rfqd8k54do7t3knq94@4ax.com>, Bryce L.
Martin <nothere@anymore.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 05:07:35 GMT, "Barnsey" <the.barnseys_@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> :|I believe he's making a film about the anti AA movement, as we speak.
> :|
> I hadn't heard about this, but God bless him if he is making such a film.

This is one of those moments where folks that pretend that they just
only merely have some "criticisms" blithely land smack dab in an "AAnti
AA" booster crank cabal. Whoops. There goes another pretense.

[Barnsey]

"Virtualoso" <no@dot.com> wrote in message
news:221120051834177719%no@dot.com...
> In article <gpl6o11b81fkleh3rfqd8k54do7t3knq94@4ax.com>, >
> This is one of those moments,

Yep, OK so far..........

> where folks

Folks. Virts favorite word.

> that pretend

Pretend. Close 2nd favorite to Folks.

> that they just only merely

Or do they merely only just?

> have some "criticisms" blithely land smack dab in an "AAnti AA" booster
> crank cabal.

Then again, they could smack dab land in an AAnti cabal crank AA blithely
booster. Now THAT would make sense, and the world would take you seriously
for once.

>Whoops. There goes another pretense.

[Virtualoso]

In article <phRgf.1200$ea6.439@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, Barnsey
<the.barnseys_@bigpond.com> wrote:

> . . . and the world would take you seriously for once.

This coming from you, an internet crackpot on an AAnti-AA Cause? LOL.
I'm sure you're concerned with "the world" taking you seriously in
usenet, even while your posts are filled with mere cussing,
fabrications, bad attitudes, etc.

I notice the large audience you've garnered, as most of your posts are
replies to people you've pretended aren't worth your while. For some
reason. Uh huh.

[Robert McGregor]

"Barnsey" <the.barnseys_@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:phRgf.1200$ea6.439@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Virtualoso" <no@dot.com> wrote in message
> news:221120051834177719%no@dot.com...
>> In article <gpl6o11b81fkleh3rfqd8k54do7t3knq94@4ax.com>, >
>> This is one of those moments,
>
> Yep, OK so far..........
>
>> where folks
>
> Folks. Virts favorite word.
>
>> that pretend
>
> Pretend. Close 2nd favorite to Folks.
>
>> that they just only merely
>
> Or do they merely only just?
>
>> have some "criticisms" blithely land smack dab in an "AAnti AA"
>> booster crank cabal.
>
> Then again, they could smack dab land in an AAnti cabal crank AA
> blithely booster. Now THAT would make sense, and the world would
> take you seriously for once.

Are you sure "the world" is lapping up *every* word, barnesey baby?
You may have more luck editing headlines for Rupert, in anticipation.
:)

Bob

[Tommy]

"Barnsey" <>> Ta for the links Bob,
>> I'm a member of a forum here which does a bit of good work in the
>> drugs/addiction field. I'd like to be more involved, but age and
>> ambition are against me, well that and the fact that we don't get paid
>> for it.

>> Cheers
>> Tommy

> Where's "over here" Tommy?
>
> It's only because Bob the McBuilder has cross posted, I'm reading your
> response.

> I'd be interested to know other countries policies and experiences with
> health initiatives like ours.

It is only pure coincidence that I happen to be an alcoholic who has an
avocation for helping families come to terms with addictions.

I personally am gagged when it comes to talking about my aversion to
methadone. Sure its a harm reduction drug, but it is stil a drug and a
harder and more dangerous drug to come off than opiates. Harm reduction for
keeping crime figures down ?
For keeping an addict from needling himself?
Harm reduction to societ?
But its a wellknown fact that kids get on to methadone programmes by making
sure they have one bad piss test. Then they are hooked - for life. That
harm reduction clinics are for a lot of cases a blistering sore on society,
passing as clean many many dirty urines, - why? because the failure rate
is so high that the clinics would close down overnight if they told the true
picture. Kids going around zombied but they are not doing harm what/ ???

I have strong opinions about it, to be sure. And whenever I get a chance
I'll air them too.

Are you clean while you are on methadone?? That I beelieve is your own
business - if you are on a reduction programme, are taking care of business
and are convinved that you will in a given space of time dropp off the dose
to zero, then I believe you could consider a clean state.

Cheers
Umm PS over here is Ireland
Tommy

[Barnsey]

From one of the links you provided, Bob.

http://www.compfused.com/directlink/736/

It is ridiculous to believe that harm reduction will assist our drug
problem. With just a little commonsense we can see that it must make it much
worse. Users are urged to continue use in a supposed responsible manner (so
their numbers do not diminish) while non users (particularly children) are
being enticed to experiment in the belief they can do so safely. So while
the number of users is not receded, the using population grows, and grows.
Since it was introduced at the Australian national drug summit in Canberra
in 1983, drug use (particularly marijuana) has increased alarmingly such
that in 1997 the UN Narcotics Control Board made special mention of the fact
that cannabis use and potency of cannabis in Australia is amongst the
highest in the world now.

We urgently need a policy that will deter use and reduce the number of
users, not maintain them. This has been achieved in Sweden where the
objective is to attain a drug-free society. While not totally possible, it
clearly indicates that the government will not tolerate use. It has embarked
upon a restrictive program emphasising prohibition, education and
rehabilitation. Massive education on the harmful effects of cannabis is
available for parents and young people because it is regarded as a
recruitment drug to heavier drug use.

That Sweden has the lowest using rate now is clear proof that such a program
and policy is working and working exceedingly well. We could do well to
closely examine their program and, like Sweden, adopt a policy that creates
an attitude opposing use such as with tobacco's "Quit for Life" program.
Does this not highly promote total abstinence and hence oppose harm
reduction? And has not society been saturated with information about the
harmful effects of tobacco? The result...a reduction of tobacco use from 70%
in 1945 to 27% today. The answer is obvious. Why aren't we doing it? That is
a question we may well ask. I suspect there will not be too many willing to
give the answer.


Interesting web page.