Another story

[Kai]

Some of you remember when I first started posting here, just about 2 years ago.

My husband was in long term rehab, and I was looking for answers. I was scared,
confused and angry.

I know that I've been touchy with other posters lately, and for that I sincerely
apologize. As you have probably guessed by now, things have returned to just
about where they were before he checked into the hospital that last time.

I guess that I have learned some over the past couple of years. I no longer search
for bottles, what's the point? I know that he is drinking, the physical evidence is
no longer required. I guess that some part of me always knew, but never wanted
to believe that after all we had been through, he would take the same road, again.

I left him for awhile this summer, after refusing to travel with him on vacation.
Learned that lesson the hard way, as well. I knew that it was unlikely that he had actually
stopped when I returned. But I missed my home, and the rest of my life. I wanted
so badly to believe that he would come back to our life again. When he came to
see me at my sister's he promised the moon. He called me every day. He loved
me, he missed me, he needed me, he would do anything to have me back.
I didn't truly believe him. But I wanted to, so badly.

Of course, he never followed through with those promises he made me and now,
he is out in the driveway. Passed out in his car. We have come to this, again.

But, I am different. It's not that I don't love him. I do. But, I have come to
love myself again, and I deserve more than this. I have worked to hard to
rebuild a life for myself in the past two years. I am to stubborn to let everything
I have worked for slip through my fingers. Why should I allow him to steal
everything from me? My home, my family, my friends, my joy?

I do not intend to drag him into the house and put him to bed.

I do not intend to be forced from my home, not yet anyway. If I leave it will
be because I chose to do so, not because I felt that I had no choices at all and
ran to escape.

I do intend to continue on with my own life, and hope and pray that he will
see the way clear to join me again at some point. I don't have to decide this
second what to do next. I have been working my own
program, and I feel strangely calm tonight. I know that I have the support of
my own friends and family. I know that whatever happens, I may be sad
but I will survive.

There are almost no tears left.

My heart goes out to you, Kim. My husband's violence is only towards
himself. Please be safe.

Kai

[stuart]

Kai <kaisapphire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:436d5cb2$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> Some of you remember when I first started posting here, just about 2 years
ago.
>
> My husband was in long term rehab, and I was looking for answers. I was
scared,
> confused and angry.

Your hubby is one lucky SOB. You been at this two years now? I never got
that kind of boozing lease term in my marriage before I got turfed. Are you
really sure you aren't a drama junkie? Just kidding...
You say you aren't going outside? Why not actually do him a favor and get
the cops to drag him downtown? Maybe a night in the drunk tank might just
give his self-esteem a tiny kick in the balls that might motivate him to
actually do something about his alcoholism.

I oughtta be in ALANON
Tough Lover, Stewie...

[stuart]

stuart <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:zjgbf.81602$S4.59382@edtnps84...
>
> Kai <kaisapphire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:436d5cb2$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > Some of you remember when I first started posting here, just about 2
years
> ago.
> >
> > My husband was in long term rehab, and I was looking for answers. I was
> scared,
> > confused and angry.
>
> Your hubby is one lucky SOB. You been at this two years now? I never got
> that kind of boozing lease term in my marriage before I got turfed. Are
you
> really sure you aren't a drama junkie? Just kidding...
> You say you aren't going outside? Why not actually do him a favor and get
> the cops to drag him downtown? Maybe a night in the drunk tank might just
> give his self-esteem a tiny kick in the balls that might motivate him to
> actually do something about his alcoholism.
>
> I oughtta be in ALANON
> Tough Lover, Stewie...

PS Passed out in the car drunk, even while parked in the driveway is good
for a drunk driving charge also. Yes it is. Trust me on that. Just call the
cops and find our for yourself. Good DUI sometimes good for kick-starting
the sobriety also...

[Robert McGregor]

"stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:emgbf.81603$S4.41827@edtnps84...
>
> stuart <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:zjgbf.81602$S4.59382@edtnps84...
>>
>> Kai <kaisapphire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:436d5cb2$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
>> > Some of you remember when I first started posting here, just
>> > about 2
> years
>> ago.
>> >
>> > My husband was in long term rehab, and I was looking for
>> > answers. I was
>> scared,
>> > confused and angry.
>>
>> Your hubby is one lucky SOB. You been at this two years now? I
>> never got
>> that kind of boozing lease term in my marriage before I got
>> turfed. Are
> you
>> really sure you aren't a drama junkie? Just kidding...
>> You say you aren't going outside? Why not actually do him a favor
>> and get
>> the cops to drag him downtown? Maybe a night in the drunk tank
>> might just
>> give his self-esteem a tiny kick in the balls that might motivate
>> him to
>> actually do something about his alcoholism.
>>
>> I oughtta be in ALANON
>> Tough Lover, Stewie...
>
> PS Passed out in the car drunk, even while parked in the driveway
> is good
> for a drunk driving charge also. Yes it is. Trust me on that. Just
> call the
> cops and find our for yourself. Good DUI sometimes good for
> kick-starting
> the sobriety also...
>

Who's the drama junkie here? Not kidding...

To take Stuart's advice, a power tripper's alternative to Kai's
detaching with love, would be meddling with intent masquerading as
love.

Sometimes "good" for kick-starting an overwhelming abundance of
adverse consequences also...


Bob

[stuart]

Robert McGregor <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:436dc8cb_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
>
> "stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:emgbf.81603$S4.41827@edtnps84...
> >
> > stuart <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:zjgbf.81602$S4.59382@edtnps84...
> >>
> >> Kai <kaisapphire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:436d5cb2$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> >> > Some of you remember when I first started posting here, just
> >> > about 2
> > years
> >> ago.
> >> >
> >> > My husband was in long term rehab, and I was looking for
> >> > answers. I was
> >> scared,
> >> > confused and angry.
> >>
> >> Your hubby is one lucky SOB. You been at this two years now? I
> >> never got
> >> that kind of boozing lease term in my marriage before I got
> >> turfed. Are
> > you
> >> really sure you aren't a drama junkie? Just kidding...
> >> You say you aren't going outside? Why not actually do him a favor
> >> and get
> >> the cops to drag him downtown? Maybe a night in the drunk tank
> >> might just
> >> give his self-esteem a tiny kick in the balls that might motivate
> >> him to
> >> actually do something about his alcoholism.
> >>
> >> I oughtta be in ALANON
> >> Tough Lover, Stewie...
> >
> > PS Passed out in the car drunk, even while parked in the driveway
> > is good
> > for a drunk driving charge also. Yes it is. Trust me on that. Just
> > call the
> > cops and find our for yourself. Good DUI sometimes good for
> > kick-starting
> > the sobriety also...
> >
>
> Who's the drama junkie here? Not kidding...
>
> To take Stuart's advice, a power tripper's alternative to Kai's
> detaching with love, would be meddling with intent masquerading as
> love.
>
> Sometimes "good" for kick-starting an overwhelming abundance of
> adverse consequences also...
>
>
> Bob

You really wouldn't want him driving anytime soon, Bob. Good folks like you
and I are on the road too...

[Dreamspinner3]

Thank you for sharing your story. I am sorry to hear of your pain & I
hope that, whatever happens with your husband, you end up in a happy,
healthy, safe place. It sounds like you're on the right track, so
just keep following it.
-----
Kim/Dreamspinner3
Visit My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/

[Dreamspinner3]

You both make good points. We who live with alcoholics must walk a
fine line between enabling, detaching with love, or detaching with
anger. I am sure Kai doesn't want him to drink & drive, but is
calling the police necessary? Maybe the compromise would be for her
to go outside & remove the keys from the car. That would leave him in
the car but remove the possibility of him driving it & hurting himself
or someone else. Kai would be protecting herself but not helping him.
-----
Kim/Dreamspinner3
Visit My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/

[[[]]]

> Maybe the compromise would be for her
> to go outside & remove the keys from the car. That would leave him in
> the car but remove the possibility of him driving it & hurting himself
> or someone else. Kai would be protecting herself but not helping him.
> -----
> Kim/Dreamspinner3
> Visit My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/

that idea sounds like a big step backward to me. i got the feeling she was
over managing his alcoholism.

-steve

[Sheenah]

"[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
news:dHpbf.2346$ox5.1379@fe37.usenetserver.com...
> > Maybe the compromise would be for her
> > to go outside & remove the keys from the car. That would leave him
in
> > the car but remove the possibility of him driving it & hurting
himself
> > or someone else. Kai would be protecting herself but not helping
him.
> > -----
> > Kim/Dreamspinner3
> > Visit My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/
>
> that idea sounds like a big step backward to me. i got the feeling she
was
> over managing his alcoholism.
>
> -steve

Would an alcholic who wants to drive after drinking always warmly
welcome someone's attempts to stop him or her doing what they wanted to
do. May some such persons respond sometimes with more than hurled verbal
abuse ?

Sheenah

[Kai]

stuart wrote:

>
> Your hubby is one lucky SOB. You been at this two years now? I never got
> that kind of boozing lease term in my marriage before I got turfed. Are you
> really sure you aren't a drama junkie? Just kidding...
> You say you aren't going outside? Why not actually do him a favor and get
> the cops to drag him downtown? Maybe a night in the drunk tank might just
> give his self-esteem a tiny kick in the balls that might motivate him to
> actually do something about his alcoholism.
>
> I oughtta be in ALANON
> Tough Lover, Stewie...
>
>

Wow. Thanks, I guess. One question, though. How would my making
a bad situation worse by involving the police lessen the "drama"?

I can see all sorts of bad things coming from a move like that.
For me, the choice I made was anti-dramatic. Now if he had made
the (bad) choice to move it out of park and had been picked up,
well that would be a genuine consequence don't you think? And one
I had absolutely no part in.

If he wishes to get motivated to do something about his problem, it
must come from himself, not scenarios engineered by me.

Kai

[Kai]

Dreamspinner3 wrote:

> You both make good points. We who live with alcoholics must walk a
> fine line between enabling, detaching with love, or detaching with
> anger. I am sure Kai doesn't want him to drink & drive, but is
> calling the police necessary? Maybe the compromise would be for her
> to go outside & remove the keys from the car. That would leave him in
> the car but remove the possibility of him driving it & hurting himself
> or someone else. Kai would be protecting herself but not helping him.
> -----
> Kim/Dreamspinner3
> Visit My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/

Of course I do no want him to drive. And in the past, I have taken
and or hidden the keys. And what happens? A whole lot of
consequences all right. For me. Better to stay out of the
equation and hope for the best.

As it happens, he did come in sometime in the night.

Things are no better today. But I am minding my own business.

Kai

[Kai]

[[]] wrote:



> that idea sounds like a big step backward to me. i got the feeling she was
> over managing his alcoholism.
>
> -steve


I agree with your first statement. I am curious about the second, however.

How is stepping away and paying attention to myself over managing "his" alcoholism?
Is this a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't?

Kai

[Kai]

Sheenah wrote:


> Would an alcholic who wants to drive after drinking always warmly
> welcome someone's attempts to stop him or her doing what they wanted to
> do. May some such persons respond sometimes with more than hurled verbal
> abuse ?
>
> Sheenah
>
>

You got that right, Sheenah. No thanks.

Kai

[stuart]

Kai <kaisapphire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:436e62db$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> stuart wrote:
>
> >
> > Your hubby is one lucky SOB. You been at this two years now? I never got
> > that kind of boozing lease term in my marriage before I got turfed. Are
you
> > really sure you aren't a drama junkie? Just kidding...
> > You say you aren't going outside? Why not actually do him a favor and
get
> > the cops to drag him downtown? Maybe a night in the drunk tank might
just
> > give his self-esteem a tiny kick in the balls that might motivate him to
> > actually do something about his alcoholism.
> >
> > I oughtta be in ALANON
> > Tough Lover, Stewie...
> >
> >
>
> Wow. Thanks, I guess. One question, though. How would my making
> a bad situation worse by involving the police lessen the "drama"?
>
> I can see all sorts of bad things coming from a move like that.
> For me, the choice I made was anti-dramatic. Now if he had made
> the (bad) choice to move it out of park and had been picked up,
> well that would be a genuine consequence don't you think? And one
> I had absolutely no part in.
>
> If he wishes to get motivated to do something about his problem, it
> must come from himself, not scenarios engineered by me.
>
> Kai

Tell you what Sugar, If my lady decided to pass out in her vehicle out on
the driveway on a regular basis, she wouldn't be welcome to spend the night
there.
You see, when he wakes up, he'll just wander inside as if nothing happened.
PS In most jurisdictions just sitting behind the wheel with the keys at hand
will get you a DUI. You don't need to be out of "park". The charge relates
to "Care and control of a motor vehicle while intoxicated" And that applies
whether you are in your own private driveway or on a public roadway. Do you
have small children? Are their any three year olds in the neighbourhood?
What if he did decide to take it our of park while a little one was crawling
up behind him to see who was in the car? Do you really think he possessed
the necessary faculties to be responsible?
My read on this is your inaction is enabling him to drink like a moronic
sot.

[stuart]

Kai <kaisapphire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:436e639f$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> Dreamspinner3 wrote:
>
> > You both make good points. We who live with alcoholics must walk a
> > fine line between enabling, detaching with love, or detaching with
> > anger. I am sure Kai doesn't want him to drink & drive, but is
> > calling the police necessary? Maybe the compromise would be for her
> > to go outside & remove the keys from the car. That would leave him in
> > the car but remove the possibility of him driving it & hurting himself
> > or someone else. Kai would be protecting herself but not helping him.
> > -----
> > Kim/Dreamspinner3
> > Visit My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/
>
> Of course I do no want him to drive. And in the past, I have taken
> and or hidden the keys. And what happens? A whole lot of
> consequences all right. For me. Better to stay out of the
> equation and hope for the best.

If your mate gets ornery after you take his car keys away when he's drunk
the he really is a drunk. How about the consequences if he decided to back
up over a toddler, right in your driveway? Wouldn't they be far worse?



>
> As it happens, he did come in sometime in the night.
>
> Things are no better today. But I am minding my own business.
>
> Kai

[Dreamspinner3]

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 09:54:43 -0600, "[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote:

>that idea sounds like a big step backward to me. i got the feeling she was
>over managing his alcoholism.

Well, it was just a suggestion. My worry would be that, if he should
drive drunk & hurt/kill someone, how could it come back to me legally?
Could I be sued?


-----
Kim/Dreamspinner3
Visit My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/

[[[]]]

"Kai" <kaisapphire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:436e645b_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> [[]] wrote:
>
>
>
>> that idea sounds like a big step backward to me. i got the feeling she
>> was over managing his alcoholism.
>>
>> -steve
>
>
> I agree with your first statement. I am curious about the second,
> however.
>
> How is stepping away and paying attention to myself over managing "his"
> alcoholism?
> Is this a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't?
>
> Kai

when i said "...she was over managing his alcoholism," i meant that "...she
was (done, finished, tired of) managing his alcoholism."

i applaud your stepping away, and paying attention to kai.

;) steve

[Robert McGregor]

"stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Kcvbf.77052$yS6.75217@clgrps12...
>
> Kai <kaisapphire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:436e639f$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
>> Dreamspinner3 wrote:
>>
>> > You both make good points. We who live with alcoholics must
>> > walk a
>> > fine line between enabling, detaching with love, or detaching
>> > with
>> > anger. I am sure Kai doesn't want him to drink & drive, but is
>> > calling the police necessary? Maybe the compromise would be for
>> > her
>> > to go outside & remove the keys from the car. That would leave
>> > him in
>> > the car but remove the possibility of him driving it & hurting
>> > himself
>> > or someone else. Kai would be protecting herself but not
>> > helping him.
>> > -----
>> > Kim/Dreamspinner3
>> > Visit My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/
>>
>> Of course I do no want him to drive. And in the past, I have
>> taken
>> and or hidden the keys. And what happens? A whole lot of
>> consequences all right. For me. Better to stay out of the
>> equation and hope for the best.
>
> If your mate gets ornery after you take his car keys away when he's
> drunk
> the he really is a drunk. How about the consequences if he decided
> to back
> up over a toddler, right in your driveway? Wouldn't they be far
> worse?
>


Jeez, a drama junky, getting off on neurotic guilt, and it calls
itself a "Dr" too!

Stuart, why don't you simply go to Kai's home, and give him a lead
injection before he backs over the beloved offspring you will
probably never have?

Be a good boy though, and phone first.

Bob

>>
>> As it happens, he did come in sometime in the night.
>>
>> Things are no better today. But I am minding my own business.
>>
>> Kai
>
>

[stuart]

Robert McGregor <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:436e9dca_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
>
> "stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:Kcvbf.77052$yS6.75217@clgrps12...
> >
> > Kai <kaisapphire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:436e639f$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> >> Dreamspinner3 wrote:
> >>
> >> > You both make good points. We who live with alcoholics must
> >> > walk a
> >> > fine line between enabling, detaching with love, or detaching
> >> > with
> >> > anger. I am sure Kai doesn't want him to drink & drive, but is
> >> > calling the police necessary? Maybe the compromise would be for
> >> > her
> >> > to go outside & remove the keys from the car. That would leave
> >> > him in
> >> > the car but remove the possibility of him driving it & hurting
> >> > himself
> >> > or someone else. Kai would be protecting herself but not
> >> > helping him.
> >> > -----
> >> > Kim/Dreamspinner3
> >> > Visit My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/
> >>
> >> Of course I do no want him to drive. And in the past, I have
> >> taken
> >> and or hidden the keys. And what happens? A whole lot of
> >> consequences all right. For me. Better to stay out of the
> >> equation and hope for the best.
> >
> > If your mate gets ornery after you take his car keys away when he's
> > drunk
> > the he really is a drunk. How about the consequences if he decided
> > to back
> > up over a toddler, right in your driveway? Wouldn't they be far
> > worse?
> >
>
>
> Jeez, a drama junky, getting off on neurotic guilt, and it calls
> itself a "Dr" too!
>
> Stuart, why don't you simply go to Kai's home, and give him a lead
> injection before he backs over the beloved offspring you will
> probably never have?
>
> Be a good boy though, and phone first.
>
> Bob

Bob, did you know that a 2 1/2' tall, centrally-placed cone cannot be seen
by a Chevrolet Suburban's driver using the rear view mirrors unless it is
sitting a whopping 18 feet behind the vehicle. This cone represents the
average height of a 1 1/2 year old child running up behind a vehicle. Since
SUV's have become more common, doctor's have named these all too common
accidents the "Bye-Bye Syndrome" Alarming numbers of toddlers are being
killed in their own driveways as parents back over then in their SUV's
because rear visiblity is compromised. Put a drunk driver behind the wheel
and you have a recipe for a nasty lawsuit, Bob.

I'm serious about this. A much worse drama than a disgruntled drunk could
result from this scenario. And, do you know what else, Bob? No lawyer can
make the actual severity of injuries into an even worse condition, if the
result of the injuries was death. They've tried, I'm sure, but it just can't
be done....

Dramatically Yours;






> >>
> >> As it happens, he did come in sometime in the night.
> >>
> >> Things are no better today. But I am minding my own business.
> >>
> >> Kai
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>

[Kai]

stuart wrote:

> If your mate gets ornery after you take his car keys away when he's drunk
> the he really is a drunk. How about the consequences if he decided to back
> up over a toddler, right in your driveway? Wouldn't they be far worse?
>


Stuart,

I agree that this is a horrifying scenario. And, if I did have a toddler,
or one was trundling around my very rural neighborhood after dark,
perhaps something to consider.

But, this "what if" circumstance is simply not applicable. My son
is 6' tall, 190# and 23 years old. He does not layabout the driveway,
that I have noticed. ; )

However, the above fact has, in the past, lead to another dramatic scenario
that did in fact, lead to me calling the police. One of the single lowest moments
of my life, to date.

And, I will still maintain, it would not be of my doing. If I were to follow through
with your logic, I would be required to ride shotgun at all times - attempting
to forstall tragic consequences of stupid decisions. And accepting the
responsibility for those decisions I neither made nor could possiblly control.

Kai

[Robert McGregor]

"stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:g8Abf.107463$Io.66652@clgrps13...
>
> Robert McGregor <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> message
> news:436e9dca_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
>>
>> "stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:Kcvbf.77052$yS6.75217@clgrps12...
>> >
>> > Kai <kaisapphire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > news:436e639f$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
>> >> Dreamspinner3 wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > You both make good points. We who live with alcoholics must
>> >> > walk a
>> >> > fine line between enabling, detaching with love, or detaching
>> >> > with
>> >> > anger. I am sure Kai doesn't want him to drink & drive, but
>> >> > is
>> >> > calling the police necessary? Maybe the compromise would be
>> >> > for
>> >> > her
>> >> > to go outside & remove the keys from the car. That would
>> >> > leave
>> >> > him in
>> >> > the car but remove the possibility of him driving it &
>> >> > hurting
>> >> > himself
>> >> > or someone else. Kai would be protecting herself but not
>> >> > helping him.
>> >> > -----
>> >> > Kim/Dreamspinner3
>> >> > Visit My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/
>> >>
>> >> Of course I do no want him to drive. And in the past, I have
>> >> taken
>> >> and or hidden the keys. And what happens? A whole lot of
>> >> consequences all right. For me. Better to stay out of the
>> >> equation and hope for the best.
>> >
>> > If your mate gets ornery after you take his car keys away when
>> > he's
>> > drunk
>> > the he really is a drunk. How about the consequences if he
>> > decided
>> > to back
>> > up over a toddler, right in your driveway? Wouldn't they be far
>> > worse?
>> >
>>
>>
>> Jeez, a drama junky, getting off on neurotic guilt, and it calls
>> itself a "Dr" too!
>>
>> Stuart, why don't you simply go to Kai's home, and give him a lead
>> injection before he backs over the beloved offspring you will
>> probably never have?
>>
>> Be a good boy though, and phone first.
>>
>> Bob
>
> Bob, did you know that a 2 1/2' tall, centrally-placed cone cannot
> be seen
> by a Chevrolet Suburban's driver using the rear view mirrors unless
> it is
> sitting a whopping 18 feet behind the vehicle. This cone represents
> the
> average height of a 1 1/2 year old child running up behind a
> vehicle. Since
> SUV's have become more common, doctor's have named these all too
> common
> accidents the "Bye-Bye Syndrome" Alarming numbers of toddlers are
> being
> killed in their own driveways as parents back over then in their
> SUV's
> because rear visiblity is compromised. Put a drunk driver behind
> the wheel
> and you have a recipe for a nasty lawsuit, Bob.
>
> I'm serious about this. A much worse drama than a disgruntled drunk
> could
> result from this scenario. And, do you know what else, Bob? No
> lawyer can
> make the actual severity of injuries into an even worse condition,
> if the
> result of the injuries was death. They've tried, I'm sure, but it
> just can't
> be done....
>
> Dramatically Yours;


I just cannot imagine the joyous cheers, from mothers of multitudes
of midnightrambling toddlers insistant on pausing for a wee snooze on
domestic driveways, one night at a time, by the grace of Stuart; whom
they choose to call God.

Best if you still phone first though, sonny.

Bob

[Kai]

Robert McGregor wrote:


> I just cannot imagine the joyous cheers, from mothers of multitudes
> of midnightrambling toddlers insistant on pausing for a wee snooze on
> domestic driveways, one night at a time, by the grace of Stuart; whom
> they choose to call God.
>
> Best if you still phone first though, sonny.
>
> Bob
>
>

Thanks for the first good laugh I've had in days Bob.

I'll pop out now and take a look on my way to the woodpile.
I'll take the phone with me, too.

Kai

[stuart]

Kai <kaisapphire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:436ee734$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> Robert McGregor wrote:
>
>
> > I just cannot imagine the joyous cheers, from mothers of multitudes
> > of midnightrambling toddlers insistant on pausing for a wee snooze on
> > domestic driveways, one night at a time, by the grace of Stuart; whom
> > they choose to call God.
> >
> > Best if you still phone first though, sonny.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
> Thanks for the first good laugh I've had in days Bob.
>
> I'll pop out now and take a look on my way to the woodpile.
> I'll take the phone with me, too.
>
> Kai

Ever occur to you we were both being obtuse? You don't need to put up with a
drunk anywhere near you if you don't want to, Kai. Trust me, as one who has
been thru' women, I know. Healthy women don't put up with that shit too
long...

[Robert McGregor]

"stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:N_Bbf.107491$Io.60633@clgrps13...
>
> Kai <kaisapphire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:436ee734$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
>> Robert McGregor wrote:
>>
>>
>> > I just cannot imagine the joyous cheers, from mothers of
>> > multitudes
>> > of midnightrambling toddlers insistant on pausing for a wee
>> > snooze on
>> > domestic driveways, one night at a time, by the grace of Stuart;
>> > whom
>> > they choose to call God.
>> >
>> > Best if you still phone first though, sonny.
>> >
>> > Bob
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Thanks for the first good laugh I've had in days Bob.
>>
>> I'll pop out now and take a look on my way to the woodpile.
>> I'll take the phone with me, too.
>>
>> Kai
>
> Ever occur to you we were both being obtuse? You don't need to put
> up with a
> drunk anywhere near you if you don't want to, Kai. Trust me, as one
> who has
> been thru' women, I know. Healthy women don't put up with that shit
> too
> long...
>

Trust you?????

Stuart, ever occur to you that your digression from backing down
lacks any evidence you are being backed up?

Actually, evidence indicates Kai is adjusting, as well as could be
expected, to living by herself without need of going into a dreaded
reversal; and trusting you.

Bob

[Kai]

stuart wrote:

> Ever occur to you we were both being obtuse? You don't need to put up with a
> drunk anywhere near you if you don't want to, Kai. Trust me, as one who has
> been thru' women, I know. Healthy women don't put up with that shit too
> long...
>



No. It occurred to me that you had taken a tragic example to a silly extreme.
Bob's visuals sometimes crack me up, and take me away from a very serious
situation for a moment. Not a bad thing, in my opinion. Sometimes, I choose
to laugh rather than mope around and cry and get dramatic all the time. It
restores my perspective and makes me feel better. That means I make better
choices.

I am sorry that you have been through many women in your life. I really mean
that - but there is no need to start calling names. In my case, my husband
sobered up after we got married, and stayed that way for over 17 years.
The last 5 have been no picnic, but I think that a nearly 25 year marriage
deserves more than a see ya pal. That's how it is for me, for somebody
else, well everyone makes their own call. I do know that there may be
consequences for me in the path I have chosen. If I had a situation
like Kim, for instance, where mental ill-health and violent behavior had become
the norm, well, that would be a different story.

I'm not saying that it couldn't happen. I'm just saying that it's not today.
Tomorrow, who knows? If you are saying that I am not concerned
enough, or worried or depressed enough about this situation, you are wrong.

Posting here lets me say some stuff that I normally might keep under my
hat. Writing things down clarifies my thoughts and debate brings up
things I may not have considered.

Kai

[stuart]

Kai <kaisapphire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:436ef90a$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> stuart wrote:
>
> > Ever occur to you we were both being obtuse? You don't need to put up
with a
> > drunk anywhere near you if you don't want to, Kai. Trust me, as one who
has
> > been thru' women, I know. Healthy women don't put up with that shit too
> > long...
> >
>
>
>
> No. It occurred to me that you had taken a tragic example to a silly
extreme.
> Bob's visuals sometimes crack me up, and take me away from a very serious
> situation for a moment. Not a bad thing, in my opinion. Sometimes, I
choose
> to laugh rather than mope around and cry and get dramatic all the time. It
> restores my perspective and makes me feel better. That means I make better
> choices.

I feel comfortable doing that to Bob. He's a cutup...



at you have been through many women in your life. I really mean
> that - but there is no need to start calling names.

I never called you any name. Think very hard about that Kai. "I" did not
call you any name. Go back a read exactly what I said. You called yourself a
name, Kai.

In my case, my husband
> sobered up after we got married, and stayed that way for over 17 years.
> The last 5 have been no picnic, but I think that a nearly 25 year marriage
> deserves more than a see ya pal. That's how it is for me, for somebody
> else, well everyone makes their own call. I do know that there may be
> consequences for me in the path I have chosen. If I had a situation
> like Kim, for instance, where mental ill-health and violent behavior had
become
> the norm, well, that would be a different story.
>
> I'm not saying that it couldn't happen. I'm just saying that it's not
today.
> Tomorrow, who knows? If you are saying that I am not concerned
> enough, or worried or depressed enough about this situation, you are
wrong.

Never thought that at all.


>
> Posting here lets me say some stuff that I normally might keep under my
> hat. Writing things down clarifies my thoughts and debate brings up
> things I may not have considered.
>
> Kai

This must be a very difficult time for you. Saying "see ya pal" doesn't have
to be forever. Sometimes we have to let God handle things and go way out on
a limb.
I realize;realized that in at least one relationship in my drinking career,
I forced my lady to make a very painful decision. She later told me she
hoped I'd straighten up and return into her life. This happens. She had
enough self-esteem to cut me loose.
Unfortunately we never did reunite, but I am sober today with a wonderful
woman in my life whom I love very much.

[rosie read n' post]

> Posting here lets me say some stuff that I normally might keep under
my
> hat. Writing things down clarifies my thoughts and debate brings up
> things I may not have considered.
>
> Kai


kai,
have you gotten to any ALANON meetings yet?

[Kai]

rosie read n' post wrote:

> kai,
> have you gotten to any ALANON meetings yet?

Yes.

[rosie read n' post]

that's good!
i hope you will stick with them!





"Kai" <kaisapphire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:436fd2fe$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> rosie read n' post wrote:
>
> > kai,
> > have you gotten to any ALANON meetings yet?
>
> Yes.
>
>

[chrissyben]

Hi Kai,
I am new to this site. I read your stories and can totally relate to you.
I have lived with my alcoholic husband for almost 6 years now. I can not
believe I am still with him. He just got his first DUI a few months ago.
This may sound mean but I was so happy, I thought it was his bottom. Sadly
I was wrong. Not having a license did not stop him from driving around
stoned and drunk, in fact he has gotten worse. There are times that I wish
he would get pulled over again or I think maybe I should call the police
on him. These thoughts make me feel guilty. I agree with you that calling
the police will not help the situation. In the past few months I have
learned to detach myself lovingly from him. These are his problems not
mine. I can't control what the outcome will be, I can just sit back and
watch the movie. I don't even bring up his drinking and drugging anymore,
I don't say anything when he comes home late or embarrases himself at a
party.

[someone in need]

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 20:08:41 -0000, "Sheenah" <JBcatRB@coldman.com>
wrote:

>
>"[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
>news:dHpbf.2346$ox5.1379@fe37.usenetserver.com...
>> > Maybe the compromise would be for her
>> > to go outside & remove the keys from the car. That would leave him
>in
>> > the car but remove the possibility of him driving it & hurting
>himself
>> > or someone else. Kai would be protecting herself but not helping
>him.
>> > -----
>> > Kim/Dreamspinner3
>> > Visit My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/
>>
>> that idea sounds like a big step backward to me. i got the feeling she
>was
>> over managing his alcoholism.
>>
>> -steve
>
>Would an alcholic who wants to drive after drinking always warmly
>welcome someone's attempts to stop him or her doing what they wanted to
>do. May some such persons respond sometimes with more than hurled verbal
>abuse ?
>
>Sheenah
>
>

There are enough orphans and widos in the world. Not wanting an
impaired person driving is common sense.

[someone in need]

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 11:49:26 -0500, "chrissyben"
<chrissyben62@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Hi Kai,
>I am new to this site. I read your stories and can totally relate to you.
>I have lived with my alcoholic husband for almost 6 years now. I can not
>believe I am still with him. He just got his first DUI a few months ago.
>This may sound mean but I was so happy, I thought it was his bottom. Sadly
>I was wrong. Not having a license did not stop him from driving around
>stoned and drunk, in fact he has gotten worse. There are times that I wish
>he would get pulled over again or I think maybe I should call the police
>on him. These thoughts make me feel guilty. I agree with you that calling
>the police will not help the situation. In the past few months I have
>learned to detach myself lovingly from him. These are his problems not
>mine. I can't control what the outcome will be, I can just sit back and
>watch the movie. I don't even bring up his drinking and drugging anymore,
>I don't say anything when he comes home late or embarrases himself at a
>party.
>


If you knowingly do not call the police when he is driving intoxicated
and he injures/mamea/kills other people you may be an accessory to the
crime. This is in addition to other liability if you are the
registered owner

[Robert McGregor]

"someone in need" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:lic4n1dchq9prkkaffmt0fimhuen3serm1@4ax.com...
> If you knowingly do not call the police when he is driving
> intoxicated
> and he injures/mamea/kills other people you may be an accessory to
> the
> crime. This is in addition to other liability if you are the
> registered owner
>

Do you *honestly* wonder why, after enduring your proven capacity for
catastrophising, your wife eventually drank herself into catastrophe?

However, there is 'most always a ray of hope.

Given your demonstration above, you may eventually crunch your
negative extrapolation positively into reverse gear; then back track
sufficiently to toddle into accepting the possibility your wife's
behaviour commenced as, and, so far, remains; merely a desperate
expression of essential escapism, as distinct from real alcoholism.

Bob

[Sheenah]

"someone in need" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:tcc4n11nlrssc1qebe32i9qvlgg7tt7q70@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 20:08:41 -0000, "Sheenah" <JBcatRB@coldman.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Would an alcholic who wants to drive after drinking always warmly
> >welcome someone's attempts to stop him or her doing what they wanted
to
> >do. May some such persons respond sometimes with more than hurled
verbal
> >abuse ?
> >
> >Sheenah
> >
> >
>
> There are enough orphans and widos in the world. Not wanting an
> impaired person driving is common sense.
>

Last night, I met chap who freely admitted to continuing to drive
despite having been banned from driving on account of being convicted of
driving while over the drink/driving limit. A case of "where there's a
will, there's a way" ?