Mias
08-09-2003, 12:37 PM
Markus
You say that you are an 'activist against AA'. What is your alcoholic
status? Do you seriously suggest the use of willpower to stop drinking? The
links you mentioned all have a connotation of non-believe in any power
greater than yourself, which is fine, but how would they have helped me. I
do believe in the existence of a God.
AA REALLY gets a raw deal being hammered by the non-believers for believing
in a God as each member understands Him and by some religions for not
believing EXACTLY as they do. Well - that seems to be pretty much middle of
the road and indicates a fairness inherent in AA.
I have searched far and wide for a solution to my drinking problem and not
one of those mentioned by you were visible anywhere or available at my
meager budget.
What is this promotion of whatever you stand for, which is not very clear,
by downing another organization? If you are an atheist or something else
come out with it and we all know where we stand. AA does cater for most
religious or non religious leanings and I for one is not against any such
group except that I would not necessarily support them. I would certainly
not become an 'activist against them' for the simple reason that they may be
helping someone. You seem like you are canvassing for membership. Is there a
well hidden monetary motive for you in that?
The arguments that you use against whatever I said is very evasive and is
really there just for the sake of causing an argument. Therefore I do have
to ask if you are still drinking or taking drugs because that is typically
the modus operandi of a drunk person.
Mias
"Markus" <markusx14u@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:vh8Za.2933$Ih1.1214944@newssrv26.news.prodigy .com...
> "Mias" <emiasNOSPAM@NOSPAMnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
> news:bh2koh$2dh$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> > Staamfa
> > If you want to test the strength of your will power 'not to do
something'
> > then please take a good dose of Epsom Salts and then DO NOT shit for a
> week.
>
> What a sorry piece of logic this is. It is no different than suggesting
> someone inject themselves with 1000 cc's of heroin and "will" the buzz not
> to happen. Are AA'ers really this ignorant? Or just playing so to
further
> their agenda?
>
> Hint for the mentally challenged: Will power is used to first recognize
the
> danger in injecting the heroin, and then to not do it. Once learned, it
is
> very simple.
>
> Some more leaps of [ill] logic:
>
> > My name is Mias and I am an alcoholic.
>
> But yet this individual claims to have not taken a drink in 14 years.
> Obviously she is oblivious to the fact that only in AA is it taught (and
> apparently accepted) that once an alcoholic always an alcoholic.
>
> Hint for the mentally challenged: There is a whole world outside of AA
that
> doesn't accept 12 step non-sense.
>
> > (If you have not walked the walk you can not talk the talk)
>
> Another great one from the halls of doom. Hey, are you saying that if you
> broke your arm that your gonna search until you find a doctor that has
also
> broken his/her arm?
>
> > I can promise you before God, as I understand Him, that I
> > looked far and wide for a solution to my drinking problem
> > and it was nowhere to be found save AA.
>
> Hmmm. So, are you claiming that you have honestly and rigorously worked
the
> non step programs listed below before trying AA? Or are you typing just to
> hear yourself type?
>
> http://www.moderation.org/
> http://www.rational.org/
> http://www.secularhumanism.org/sos/
> http://www.unhooked.com/index.htm
> http://www.smartrecovery.org/
> http://www.womenforsobriety.org/
>
> > Are you an alcoholic like in that you saw the gates
> > of hell from the inside or did alcohol just make you windy?
>
> Ah yes, the classic "only those in AA are *REAL* alcoholics." LOL, what a
> fuckin joke. What do you think Mias? That you and your AA buddies are the
> only people whom have taken themselves through hell and back?
>
> Hint: Just because I simply chose to no longer have drugs and alcohol be
the
> center of my existence (such as it is when actively using, or involved
with
> a 12 step program) doesn't mean that I didn't visit the same hell you did.
>
> > and you also have not the foggiest idea what you
> > are meddling with and what good things you are trying to break down.
>
> Oh, I think it is you that hasn't the foggiest idea of what you promote.
>
> > If you cause one person not to find sobriety you have
> > probably caused a death.
>
> Ah yes, the classic attempt at guilt with predictions of dire doom and
> gloom. But what can you expect from someone immersed in a program that is
> all about guilt mongering backed by dire predictions?
>
> You see, all that may have "not been found" was a 12 step meeting. Too
bad
> that you are so simple minded that you equate that with not finding
> sobriety.
>
> Get a fuckin clue: I, and I assume others who are activists against the
> step program have indeed both experienced ourselves, and seen the results
of
> others who tried to use the program. And the results were horrid.
> Furthermore, yeah, if it were just simply a case of something not agreeing
> with me, and I found something else that did, then I would certainly leave
> all of this alone. But there is more to it than that. The case is that
there
> are many out there whom would never be informed of non-step methods if it
> weren't for folks like myself (albeit not so much anymore), or like ST, or
> Agent O, et el. For me, there is a certain compassion for those suffering
> from addiction. I simply don't want to see them further suffer the mental
> anguish of trying to force fit a failed philosophy into their well being.
>
> ASIDE: Obviously, some are attracted to and seemingly find success (by
their
> definition) in the step program. So be it. However, in years past I've
also
> received thank yous for posting from those whom were still suffering
"inside
> the rooms." They didn't know that it was OK to question the bullshit they
> were being fed for a hour or three a week.
>
> -Markus
> --
> to reply, remove 4u
>
>
You say that you are an 'activist against AA'. What is your alcoholic
status? Do you seriously suggest the use of willpower to stop drinking? The
links you mentioned all have a connotation of non-believe in any power
greater than yourself, which is fine, but how would they have helped me. I
do believe in the existence of a God.
AA REALLY gets a raw deal being hammered by the non-believers for believing
in a God as each member understands Him and by some religions for not
believing EXACTLY as they do. Well - that seems to be pretty much middle of
the road and indicates a fairness inherent in AA.
I have searched far and wide for a solution to my drinking problem and not
one of those mentioned by you were visible anywhere or available at my
meager budget.
What is this promotion of whatever you stand for, which is not very clear,
by downing another organization? If you are an atheist or something else
come out with it and we all know where we stand. AA does cater for most
religious or non religious leanings and I for one is not against any such
group except that I would not necessarily support them. I would certainly
not become an 'activist against them' for the simple reason that they may be
helping someone. You seem like you are canvassing for membership. Is there a
well hidden monetary motive for you in that?
The arguments that you use against whatever I said is very evasive and is
really there just for the sake of causing an argument. Therefore I do have
to ask if you are still drinking or taking drugs because that is typically
the modus operandi of a drunk person.
Mias
"Markus" <markusx14u@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:vh8Za.2933$Ih1.1214944@newssrv26.news.prodigy .com...
> "Mias" <emiasNOSPAM@NOSPAMnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
> news:bh2koh$2dh$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> > Staamfa
> > If you want to test the strength of your will power 'not to do
something'
> > then please take a good dose of Epsom Salts and then DO NOT shit for a
> week.
>
> What a sorry piece of logic this is. It is no different than suggesting
> someone inject themselves with 1000 cc's of heroin and "will" the buzz not
> to happen. Are AA'ers really this ignorant? Or just playing so to
further
> their agenda?
>
> Hint for the mentally challenged: Will power is used to first recognize
the
> danger in injecting the heroin, and then to not do it. Once learned, it
is
> very simple.
>
> Some more leaps of [ill] logic:
>
> > My name is Mias and I am an alcoholic.
>
> But yet this individual claims to have not taken a drink in 14 years.
> Obviously she is oblivious to the fact that only in AA is it taught (and
> apparently accepted) that once an alcoholic always an alcoholic.
>
> Hint for the mentally challenged: There is a whole world outside of AA
that
> doesn't accept 12 step non-sense.
>
> > (If you have not walked the walk you can not talk the talk)
>
> Another great one from the halls of doom. Hey, are you saying that if you
> broke your arm that your gonna search until you find a doctor that has
also
> broken his/her arm?
>
> > I can promise you before God, as I understand Him, that I
> > looked far and wide for a solution to my drinking problem
> > and it was nowhere to be found save AA.
>
> Hmmm. So, are you claiming that you have honestly and rigorously worked
the
> non step programs listed below before trying AA? Or are you typing just to
> hear yourself type?
>
> http://www.moderation.org/
> http://www.rational.org/
> http://www.secularhumanism.org/sos/
> http://www.unhooked.com/index.htm
> http://www.smartrecovery.org/
> http://www.womenforsobriety.org/
>
> > Are you an alcoholic like in that you saw the gates
> > of hell from the inside or did alcohol just make you windy?
>
> Ah yes, the classic "only those in AA are *REAL* alcoholics." LOL, what a
> fuckin joke. What do you think Mias? That you and your AA buddies are the
> only people whom have taken themselves through hell and back?
>
> Hint: Just because I simply chose to no longer have drugs and alcohol be
the
> center of my existence (such as it is when actively using, or involved
with
> a 12 step program) doesn't mean that I didn't visit the same hell you did.
>
> > and you also have not the foggiest idea what you
> > are meddling with and what good things you are trying to break down.
>
> Oh, I think it is you that hasn't the foggiest idea of what you promote.
>
> > If you cause one person not to find sobriety you have
> > probably caused a death.
>
> Ah yes, the classic attempt at guilt with predictions of dire doom and
> gloom. But what can you expect from someone immersed in a program that is
> all about guilt mongering backed by dire predictions?
>
> You see, all that may have "not been found" was a 12 step meeting. Too
bad
> that you are so simple minded that you equate that with not finding
> sobriety.
>
> Get a fuckin clue: I, and I assume others who are activists against the
> step program have indeed both experienced ourselves, and seen the results
of
> others who tried to use the program. And the results were horrid.
> Furthermore, yeah, if it were just simply a case of something not agreeing
> with me, and I found something else that did, then I would certainly leave
> all of this alone. But there is more to it than that. The case is that
there
> are many out there whom would never be informed of non-step methods if it
> weren't for folks like myself (albeit not so much anymore), or like ST, or
> Agent O, et el. For me, there is a certain compassion for those suffering
> from addiction. I simply don't want to see them further suffer the mental
> anguish of trying to force fit a failed philosophy into their well being.
>
> ASIDE: Obviously, some are attracted to and seemingly find success (by
their
> definition) in the step program. So be it. However, in years past I've
also
> received thank yous for posting from those whom were still suffering
"inside
> the rooms." They didn't know that it was OK to question the bullshit they
> were being fed for a hour or three a week.
>
> -Markus
> --
> to reply, remove 4u
>
>