question about my drinking [Archive] - Drug & Alcohol Rehab Forums & News

Crystal

08-11-2005, 05:17 PM

"stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
news:O9PKe.194444$tt5.154536@edtnps90...
>
> "Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:HhOKe.4286$j21.3527@news01.roc.ny...
>> First, I'll admit I drink too much, however I don't consider it a
>> problem. I never wake up with hangovers, I don't miss work because of it,
>> I don't think during the day. I do drink 1-1/2 liters of wine a night,
>> and yes every night without fail. Is this really so bad?
>>
>> I'm a healthy person except for being 50 pounds overweight. Would
>> drinking 1-1/2 liters of wine a night for the past 20 years really do
>> that much damage to me?
>>
>> Crystal
>
> Hey, try stopping for a year and I'l betcha two things will happen to you.
>
> 1) You will lose 50 lbs
> 2) You won't realize just how much more energy you have at work during the
> day
>
> We don't sometimes sense the damage until we stop for awhile. If you don't
> notice any difference, you can always pick up where you left off, and hey,
> what have you got to lose?

I don't know, I like the mellow stage I get myself into at night when I'm
relaxing in front of the tube. I only have 5-1/2 hours of sleep a night and
I have plenty of energy to spare. The weight is on because I like eating
and I hate exercise.

stuart

08-11-2005, 06:26 PM

"Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8gPKe.4294$j21.2981@news01.roc.ny...
>
> "stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
> news:O9PKe.194444$tt5.154536@edtnps90...
>>
>> "Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:HhOKe.4286$j21.3527@news01.roc.ny...
>>> First, I'll admit I drink too much, however I don't consider it a
>>> problem. I never wake up with hangovers, I don't miss work because of
>>> it, I don't think during the day. I do drink 1-1/2 liters of wine a
>>> night, and yes every night without fail. Is this really so bad?
>>>
>>> I'm a healthy person except for being 50 pounds overweight. Would
>>> drinking 1-1/2 liters of wine a night for the past 20 years really do
>>> that much damage to me?
>>>
>>> Crystal
>>
>> Hey, try stopping for a year and I'l betcha two things will happen to
>> you.
>>
>> 1) You will lose 50 lbs
>> 2) You won't realize just how much more energy you have at work during
>> the day
>>
>> We don't sometimes sense the damage until we stop for awhile. If you
>> don't notice any difference, you can always pick up where you left off,
>> and hey, what have you got to lose?
>
>
> I don't know, I like the mellow stage I get myself into at night when I'm
> relaxing in front of the tube. I only have 5-1/2 hours of sleep a night
> and I have plenty of energy to spare. The weight is on because I like
> eating and I hate exercise.

well, I suppose you could blame it on overeating, but, according to amount
of wine you said you drank, you are consuming approximately 1100 extra
calories per day in the vino alone There are approximately 3600 calories
per pound of body fat, so everything else being the same, you should drop 50
pounds in about 7 months.
Been there done that.....

>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Savik

08-11-2005, 07:08 PM

"Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4nOKe.4290$j21.3166@news01.roc.ny...
| ha! that is "I don't DRINK during the day"... not "think". oops
|

One's Higher Power can work in mysterious ways - if it was me, I'd be
wondering whether maybe there was some truth in that error! :-)

Crystal

08-11-2005, 07:18 PM

"Savik" <nospam@bluey.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BTQKe.8908$1b6.889@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk. ..
>
> "Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4nOKe.4290$j21.3166@news01.roc.ny...
> | ha! that is "I don't DRINK during the day"... not "think". oops
> |
>
> One's Higher Power can work in mysterious ways - if it was me, I'd be
> wondering whether maybe there was some truth in that error! :-)

there is zero truth to it, I have a very respectful job with a lot of
responsibility, there is no way I'd still be working there if I didn't THINK

Crystal

08-11-2005, 07:23 PM

"stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
news:EgQKe.194451$tt5.178316@edtnps90...
>
> "Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8gPKe.4294$j21.2981@news01.roc.ny...
>>
>> "stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
>> news:O9PKe.194444$tt5.154536@edtnps90...
>>>
>>> "Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:HhOKe.4286$j21.3527@news01.roc.ny...
>>>> First, I'll admit I drink too much, however I don't consider it a
>>>> problem. I never wake up with hangovers, I don't miss work because of
>>>> it, I don't think during the day. I do drink 1-1/2 liters of wine a
>>>> night, and yes every night without fail. Is this really so bad?
>>>>
>>>> I'm a healthy person except for being 50 pounds overweight. Would
>>>> drinking 1-1/2 liters of wine a night for the past 20 years really do
>>>> that much damage to me?
>>>>
>>>> Crystal
>>>
>>> Hey, try stopping for a year and I'l betcha two things will happen to
>>> you.
>>>
>>> 1) You will lose 50 lbs
>>> 2) You won't realize just how much more energy you have at work during
>>> the day
>>>
>>> We don't sometimes sense the damage until we stop for awhile. If you
>>> don't notice any difference, you can always pick up where you left off,
>>> and hey, what have you got to lose?
>>
>>
>> I don't know, I like the mellow stage I get myself into at night when I'm
>> relaxing in front of the tube. I only have 5-1/2 hours of sleep a night
>> and I have plenty of energy to spare. The weight is on because I like
>> eating and I hate exercise.
>
> well, I suppose you could blame it on overeating, but, according to amount
> of wine you said you drank, you are consuming approximately 1100 extra
> calories per day in the vino alone There are approximately 3600 calories
> per pound of body fat, so everything else being the same, you should drop
> 50 pounds in about 7 months.
> Been there done that.....

hmm okay, but if I didn't drink my calories, I'd probably sit in front of
the TV eating the calories

stopping the wine is temping IF I could lose that much in 7 months... IF.

Crystal

08-11-2005, 08:59 PM

"stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
news:EgQKe.194451$tt5.178316@edtnps90...
>
> "Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8gPKe.4294$j21.2981@news01.roc.ny...
>>
>> "stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
>> news:O9PKe.194444$tt5.154536@edtnps90...
>>>
>>> "Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:HhOKe.4286$j21.3527@news01.roc.ny...
>>>> First, I'll admit I drink too much, however I don't consider it a
>>>> problem. I never wake up with hangovers, I don't miss work because of
>>>> it, I don't think during the day. I do drink 1-1/2 liters of wine a
>>>> night, and yes every night without fail. Is this really so bad?
>>>>
>>>> I'm a healthy person except for being 50 pounds overweight. Would
>>>> drinking 1-1/2 liters of wine a night for the past 20 years really do
>>>> that much damage to me?
>>>>
>>>> Crystal
>>>
>>> Hey, try stopping for a year and I'l betcha two things will happen to
>>> you.
>>>
>>> 1) You will lose 50 lbs
>>> 2) You won't realize just how much more energy you have at work during
>>> the day
>>>
>>> We don't sometimes sense the damage until we stop for awhile. If you
>>> don't notice any difference, you can always pick up where you left off,
>>> and hey, what have you got to lose?
>>
>>
>> I don't know, I like the mellow stage I get myself into at night when I'm
>> relaxing in front of the tube. I only have 5-1/2 hours of sleep a night
>> and I have plenty of energy to spare. The weight is on because I like
>> eating and I hate exercise.
>
> well, I suppose you could blame it on overeating, but, according to amount
> of wine you said you drank, you are consuming approximately 1100 extra
> calories per day in the vino alone There are approximately 3600 calories
> per pound of body fat, so everything else being the same, you should drop
> 50 pounds in about 7 months.
> Been there done that.....

okay, I'm going to give it an honest try starting Monday. I have a box of
wine in the house and that will be gone by then and I won't buy any after
work Monday. We'll see if I lose any weight by cutting out the alcohol AND
see if I feel any differently.

Sam

08-11-2005, 09:02 PM

Crystal wrote:
>
> hmm okay, but if I didn't drink my calories, I'd probably sit in front of
> the TV eating the calories
>
> stopping the wine is temping IF I could lose that much in 7 months... IF.
>
>

Look at this way, if you don't stop drinking that much
a day and continue to gain weight, why bother living
in a dark room watching reruns of Lucy at night ?
I suggest you take up smoking too ... that reduces the
hunger urge. Hurry up and get it over with. Heart attack,
liver failure, lung cancer. You've increased your chances greatly.

Soberity is more than not drinking. It is living
life on life terms, not yours.

You know *yourself* if you can quit.

Take the test: Page 31: All vain
attempts to stop have resulted in worse drinking patterns.

Crystal

08-11-2005, 09:10 PM

"Sam" <SamT@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%ySKe.134130$0f.65624@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Crystal wrote:
>>
>> hmm okay, but if I didn't drink my calories, I'd probably sit in front of
>> the TV eating the calories
>>
>> stopping the wine is temping IF I could lose that much in 7 months...
>> IF.
>>
>>
>
> Look at this way, if you don't stop drinking that much
> a day and continue to gain weight, why bother living
> in a dark room watching reruns of Lucy at night ?
> I suggest you take up smoking too ... that reduces the
> hunger urge. Hurry up and get it over with. Heart attack,
> liver failure, lung cancer. You've increased your chances greatly.
>
>
> Soberity is more than not drinking. It is living
> life on life terms, not yours.
>
> You know *yourself* if you can quit.
>
> Take the test: Page 31: All vain
> attempts to stop have resulted in worse drinking patterns.

No, I quit smoking 5 years ago after doing it 18 years, I don't plan on
starting that. That was the hardest thing to stop. If I can quit smoking I
can quit anthing. I just rather not quit though, because I enjoy it. I know
you are thinking that I am justifying it in my mind.

Page 31? I assume that is of the AA handbook. I don't have one, I wouldn't
do AA because of the religion/bible associated with it. It would not work
for me on that basis. And, I have never attempted to quit before, so this
would be a first.

A little support and not criticism would work better for me too.

Sam

08-11-2005, 09:33 PM

Crystal wrote:

Congrads on the smoking thing. I smoked for short periods
in my life and haven't had one in 15 years.

>
> Page 31? I assume that is of the AA handbook. I don't have one, I wouldn't
> do AA because of the religion/bible associated with it. It would not work
> for me on that basis. And, I have never attempted to quit before, so this
> would be a first.

1st mistake we all have made.
Bible simply contains Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth,
There is not 1 mention of any religion in the AA program.

We seek Spritual Growth, not perfection.

We ask for help daily from our perceived higher power
in order to guide us through difficult decisions.

I was not a believer either until I experienced what most
alcoholics need in order to quit: A moment of clarity.
To surrender myself because I wasn't doing it right anymore.

>
> A little support and not criticism would work better for me too.

My pun was an attempt at humor. So Sorry. People in the fellowship
generally have a very dry sense of humor. That is how we cope.
We also speak from the heart truths we've learned. Is there
incorrect facts in my reply ?

Take the test this weekend.

Empty your house of alcohol and go dry.

Check back in next week.

>
>
>
>
>
>

stuart

08-11-2005, 10:18 PM

Crystal <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:y5RKe.3887$cg.648@news02.roc.ny...
>
> "stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
> news:EgQKe.194451$tt5.178316@edtnps90...
> >
> > "Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:8gPKe.4294$j21.2981@news01.roc.ny...
> >>
> >> "stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
> >> news:O9PKe.194444$tt5.154536@edtnps90...
> >>>
> >>> "Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:HhOKe.4286$j21.3527@news01.roc.ny...
> >>>> First, I'll admit I drink too much, however I don't consider it a
> >>>> problem. I never wake up with hangovers, I don't miss work because of
> >>>> it, I don't think during the day. I do drink 1-1/2 liters of wine a
> >>>> night, and yes every night without fail. Is this really so bad?
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm a healthy person except for being 50 pounds overweight. Would
> >>>> drinking 1-1/2 liters of wine a night for the past 20 years really do
> >>>> that much damage to me?
> >>>>
> >>>> Crystal
> >>>
> >>> Hey, try stopping for a year and I'l betcha two things will happen to
> >>> you.
> >>>
> >>> 1) You will lose 50 lbs
> >>> 2) You won't realize just how much more energy you have at work during
> >>> the day
> >>>
> >>> We don't sometimes sense the damage until we stop for awhile. If you
> >>> don't notice any difference, you can always pick up where you left
off,
> >>> and hey, what have you got to lose?
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't know, I like the mellow stage I get myself into at night when
I'm
> >> relaxing in front of the tube. I only have 5-1/2 hours of sleep a
night
> >> and I have plenty of energy to spare. The weight is on because I like
> >> eating and I hate exercise.
> >
> > well, I suppose you could blame it on overeating, but, according to
amount
> > of wine you said you drank, you are consuming approximately 1100 extra
> > calories per day in the vino alone There are approximately 3600
calories
> > per pound of body fat, so everything else being the same, you should
drop
> > 50 pounds in about 7 months.
> > Been there done that.....
>
>
> hmm okay, but if I didn't drink my calories, I'd probably sit in front of
> the TV eating the calories
>
> stopping the wine is temping IF I could lose that much in 7 months... IF.

I lost 40 lbs in the first year. You are probably right on, because you are
no doubt, substituting part of your daily requirement of calories with the
wine, instead of eating food, but you will lose a pile of weight in a few
short months. If you want to accelerate the process even greater, just go
out and do stuff in the evenings instead. Just going out and playing cards,
or visiting someone can burn quite an amount of energy, just walking to and
from the car, standing around a little bit. You'd be surprised
>
>
>
>
>

dan mcgown

08-11-2005, 11:16 PM

"Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HhOKe.4286$j21.3527@news01.roc.ny...
> First, I'll admit I drink too much, however I don't consider it a problem.
> I never wake up with hangovers, I don't miss work because of it, I don't
> think during the day. I do drink 1-1/2 liters of wine a night, and yes
> every night without fail. Is this really so bad?
>
> I'm a healthy person except for being 50 pounds overweight. Would
> drinking 1-1/2 liters of wine a night for the past 20 years really do that
> much damage to me?
>
> Crystal

Crystal, someone I was very close to drank about that much every day.
She was about 50 to 60 pounds overweight. She drank that much for about
that long. She killed her liver. She started becoming delirious before she
eventually slipped out of this world.
Do you really think that your liver isn't paying a toll for separating
out that much alcohol every day? Do you really think that it can do so
indefinitely?
Dan

jim

08-12-2005, 11:15 AM

Good luck Crystal. Why don't you check out an AA meeting, it's not
"religious" ,there are tons of people in AA who dont believe in God, all you
need is a higher power to tap into for strength and to take away your
difficulties. I used to drink wine like you every day for years, then it was
vodka for a couple of years and I had a big pot belly and looked flushed in
the face all the time. I have lost the pot since quitting and the flushing
is all but stopped, feel much more energy and not as anxious and nervous as
I was.What do you do if someone drops in on you or calls you when you are
drunk like your'e mum someone from work? I dont worry about that now.
Jim
"Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5wSKe.3903$cg.2515@news02.roc.ny...
>
> "stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
> news:EgQKe.194451$tt5.178316@edtnps90...
>>
>> "Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:8gPKe.4294$j21.2981@news01.roc.ny...
>>>
>>> "stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
>>> news:O9PKe.194444$tt5.154536@edtnps90...
>>>>
>>>> "Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:HhOKe.4286$j21.3527@news01.roc.ny...
>>>>> First, I'll admit I drink too much, however I don't consider it a
>>>>> problem. I never wake up with hangovers, I don't miss work because of
>>>>> it, I don't think during the day. I do drink 1-1/2 liters of wine a
>>>>> night, and yes every night without fail. Is this really so bad?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm a healthy person except for being 50 pounds overweight. Would
>>>>> drinking 1-1/2 liters of wine a night for the past 20 years really do
>>>>> that much damage to me?
>>>>>
>>>>> Crystal
>>>>
>>>> Hey, try stopping for a year and I'l betcha two things will happen to
>>>> you.
>>>>
>>>> 1) You will lose 50 lbs
>>>> 2) You won't realize just how much more energy you have at work during
>>>> the day
>>>>
>>>> We don't sometimes sense the damage until we stop for awhile. If you
>>>> don't notice any difference, you can always pick up where you left off,
>>>> and hey, what have you got to lose?
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know, I like the mellow stage I get myself into at night when
>>> I'm relaxing in front of the tube. I only have 5-1/2 hours of sleep a
>>> night and I have plenty of energy to spare. The weight is on because I
>>> like eating and I hate exercise.
>>
>> well, I suppose you could blame it on overeating, but, according to
>> amount of wine you said you drank, you are consuming approximately 1100
>> extra calories per day in the vino alone There are approximately 3600
>> calories per pound of body fat, so everything else being the same, you
>> should drop 50 pounds in about 7 months.
>> Been there done that.....
>
>
> okay, I'm going to give it an honest try starting Monday. I have a box of
> wine in the house and that will be gone by then and I won't buy any after
> work Monday. We'll see if I lose any weight by cutting out the alcohol
> AND see if I feel any differently.
>
>
>

Gail

08-12-2005, 12:28 PM

dan mcgown wrote:
> "Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:HhOKe.4286$j21.3527@news01.roc.ny...
>> First, I'll admit I drink too much, however I don't consider it a
>> problem. I never wake up with hangovers, I don't miss work because
>> of it, I don't think during the day. I do drink 1-1/2 liters of
>> wine a night, and yes every night without fail. Is this really so
>> bad? I'm a healthy person except for being 50 pounds overweight. Would
>> drinking 1-1/2 liters of wine a night for the past 20 years really
>> do that much damage to me?
>>
>> Crystal
>
> Crystal, someone I was very close to drank about that much every
> day. She was about 50 to 60 pounds overweight. She drank that much
> for about that long. She killed her liver. She started becoming
> delirious before she eventually slipped out of this world.
> Do you really think that your liver isn't paying a toll for
> separating out that much alcohol every day? Do you really think that
> it can do so indefinitely?
> Dan

HEY DAN! HOW"S IT.....I will be good.:)
Hope you are doing good. Good advice to Crystal.

Take care,
Gail

rosie read n' post

08-12-2005, 12:45 PM

"Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5wSKe.3903$cg.2515@news02.roc.ny...
>
>
>
> okay, I'm going to give it an honest try starting Monday. I have a
box of
> wine in the house and that will be gone by then and I won't buy any
after
> work Monday. We'll see if I lose any weight by cutting out the
alcohol AND
> see if I feel any differently.
>
>
>

hello crystal,
by all means give stopping drinking a try.
you might want to look for a local AA meeting.
it isn't religious..................if it were, i wouldn't be there, for
sure!

i was a wine drinking alcoholic, who never missed work, never had a DUI,
didn't lose my family or marriage.................but still a alcoholic,
who needed to quit drinking.
best of everything to you!

rosie

Dan McGown

08-12-2005, 12:51 PM

> HEY DAN! HOW"S IT.....I will be good.:)
> Hope you are doing good. Good advice to Crystal.
>
> Take care,
> Gail
Hi there, Sweetie! Everything is going well here. My group has been
meeting every week for 90 days now so we can apply to join InterGroup and
get in the meetings book, which should help. I've not found the perfect
partner yet (I'm not sure one exists) but I'm enjoying my life. The best
part is that I do it with peace and serenity. Life is good -- a thing I'd
have denied in my drinking days. When someone used to ask how I was, I'd
say "I'm alive, but I'm not too happy about it." Now I say "It must be a
felony to feel as good as I feel because nothing this much fun could be
legal." <L>

rosie read n' post

08-12-2005, 12:57 PM

>........................... When someone used to ask how I was, I'd
> say "I'm alive, but I'm not too happy about it." Now I say "It must
be a
> felony to feel as good as I feel because nothing this much fun could
be
> legal." <L>
>
>

WOW!
dan that is great news.

Gail

08-12-2005, 01:44 PM

Dan McGown wrote:
>> HEY DAN! HOW"S IT.....I will be good.:)
>> Hope you are doing good. Good advice to Crystal.
>>
>> Take care,
>> Gail
> Hi there, Sweetie! Everything is going well here. My group has been
> meeting every week for 90 days now so we can apply to join InterGroup
> and get in the meetings book, which should help.

That is great!

I've not found the
> perfect partner yet (I'm not sure one exists) but I'm enjoying my
> life.

LOL! If you find one, ask him if he has any brothers...;) I have a friend
that is looking. She keeps saying God hasn't put anyone in her life yet.
Maybe she has been to wrapped up in her self to realize He might have put
one in numerous times already. I don't know. Maybe she is looking for the
perfect man..:) I hate to tell her......oh well, I won't get into that.

The best part is that I do it with peace and serenity. Life
> is good -- a thing I'd have denied in my drinking days. When someone
> used to ask how I was, I'd say "I'm alive, but I'm not too happy
> about it." Now I say "It must be a felony to feel as good as I feel
> because nothing this much fun could be legal." <L>

I know I have replied to people in that way, too. Had forgotten that.

Have a great and fun day!
Gail

Dan McGown

08-12-2005, 02:09 PM

"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6e5Le.1858$rc6.936@fe03.lga...

<snip>
> LOL! If you find one, ask him if he has any brothers...;) I have a friend
> that is looking. She keeps saying God hasn't put anyone in her life yet.
> Maybe she has been to wrapped up in her self to realize He might have put
> one in numerous times already. I don't know. Maybe she is looking for the
> perfect man..:) I hate to tell her......oh well, I won't get into that.

Honey, straight men and "tops" have many charming qualities but their
basic nature precludes perfection. They are as innocent as children -- that
is to say, they are demanding, self-absorbed, messy, forgetful, suffering
from ADD and have no fashion sense whatever. <LOL> I love children but I
wouldn't marry one.
Still, I take it as an article of faith that somewhere out there is a
totally "out" guy who is a "top" and yet manages to be sensitive,
thoughtful, considerate, intelligent, literate, self-supporting, tasteful,
well read, polite and kind. Notice that I didn't even bother to put good
looking on the list. If I could find a guy that had the rest of the list
I'd settle down to worship at his feet even if he was as ugly as a bucket of
frogs.
I'm not looking for him though. Somehow, I think that spending my time
searching for a partner would detract from the primary mission of making
sure that I'm turning into the me that I need to be. If he happens to come
around in the meantime, great.

Gail

08-12-2005, 02:31 PM

Dan McGown wrote:
> "Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6e5Le.1858$rc6.936@fe03.lga...
>
> <snip>
>> LOL! If you find one, ask him if he has any brothers...;) I have a
>> friend that is looking. She keeps saying God hasn't put anyone in
>> her life yet. Maybe she has been to wrapped up in her self to
>> realize He might have put one in numerous times already. I don't
>> know. Maybe she is looking for the perfect man..:) I hate to tell
>> her......oh well, I won't get into that.
>
> Honey, straight men and "tops" have many charming qualities but
> their basic nature precludes perfection. They are as innocent as
> children -- that is to say, they are demanding, self-absorbed, messy,
> forgetful, suffering from ADD and have no fashion sense whatever.
> <LOL> I love children but I wouldn't marry one.
> Still, I take it as an article of faith that somewhere out there
> is a totally "out" guy who is a "top" and yet manages to be sensitive,
> thoughtful, considerate, intelligent, literate, self-supporting,
> tasteful, well read, polite and kind. Notice that I didn't even
> bother to put good looking on the list. If I could find a guy that
> had the rest of the list I'd settle down to worship at his feet even
> if he was as ugly as a bucket of frogs.
> I'm not looking for him though. Somehow, I think that spending
> my time searching for a partner would detract from the primary
> mission of making sure that I'm turning into the me that I need to
> be. If he happens to come around in the meantime, great.

LOL! Great discription, Dan.

stuart

08-12-2005, 04:02 PM

"Dan McGown" <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:mrednZ2dnZ0J_uz4nZ2dnVF4Yd-dnZ2dRVn-0Z2dnZ0@adelphia.com...
>
> "Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6e5Le.1858$rc6.936@fe03.lga...
>
> <snip>
>> LOL! If you find one, ask him if he has any brothers...;) I have a friend
>> that is looking. She keeps saying God hasn't put anyone in her life yet.
>> Maybe she has been to wrapped up in her self to realize He might have put
>> one in numerous times already. I don't know. Maybe she is looking for the
>> perfect man..:) I hate to tell her......oh well, I won't get into that.
>
> Honey, straight men and "tops" have many charming qualities but their
> basic nature precludes perfection. They are as innocent as children --
> that is to say, they are demanding, self-absorbed, messy, forgetful,
> suffering from ADD and have no fashion sense whatever. <LOL> I love
> children but I wouldn't marry one.
> Still, I take it as an article of faith that somewhere out there is a
> totally "out" guy who is a "top" and yet manages to be sensitive,
> thoughtful, considerate, intelligent, literate, self-supporting, tasteful,
> well read, polite and kind. Notice that I didn't even bother to put good
> looking on the list. If I could find a guy that had the rest of the list
> I'd settle down to worship at his feet even if he was as ugly as a bucket
> of frogs.
> I'm not looking for him though. Somehow, I think that spending my
> time searching for a partner would detract from the primary mission of
> making sure that I'm turning into the me that I need to be. If he happens
> to come around in the meantime, great.

You know what they say about program guys looking for a woman to plug both
their penis and umbilical cord into;-)

Bobby L

08-12-2005, 06:35 PM

"Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:K0RKe.4304$j21.1211@news01.roc.ny...
>
> "Savik" <nospam@bluey.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:BTQKe.8908$1b6.889@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk. ..
> >
> > "Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:4nOKe.4290$j21.3166@news01.roc.ny...
> > | ha! that is "I don't DRINK during the day"... not "think". oops
> > |
> >
> > One's Higher Power can work in mysterious ways - if it was me, I'd be
> > wondering whether maybe there was some truth in that error! :-)
>
>
> there is zero truth to it, I have a very respectful job with a lot of
> responsibility, there is no way I'd still be working there if I didn't
THINK
>
>
>
RULE 62....

Wow! I'm impressed. Well you must able enough and intelligent enough to
figure this out -- after all, you have such a respectful job and so much
responsibility. There's probably just no way you could be an alcoholic.
After all, you know we alcoholics are really some sick puppies. We couldn't
hold down jobs - or support our families - or drive/own nice cars. Most of
us had really disgraceful jobs and almost no responsibility.

You know I have noted in my short life that if I throw a rock into a pack of
dogs, then one I hit is the one who will start yelping. You sure sound like
the dog that Savik hit... maybe not... I do have a pretty vivid imagination.

Perhaps you are different. You certainly sould so. That said --
Mis-direction and mis-application has always been two of the most powerful
tools in my arsenal of self-aggrandizement.

Bobby L

Bobby L

08-12-2005, 06:35 PM

rett

08-12-2005, 08:01 PM

Crystal wrote:
> First, I'll admit I drink too much, however I don't consider it a problem.
> I never wake up with hangovers, I don't miss work because of it, I don't
> think during the day. I do drink 1-1/2 liters of wine a night, and yes
> every night without fail. Is this really so bad?

If you were only a social drinker...
you would not be asking these questions...
so...with that said..
what do YOU think?

>
> I'm a healthy person except for being 50 pounds overweight. Would drinking
> 1-1/2 liters of wine a night for the past 20 years really do that much
> damage to me?

simply said...YES!
>
> Crystal

dan mcgown

08-12-2005, 08:19 PM

"stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
news:if7Le.174591$9A2.166791@edtnps89...
>
> "Dan McGown" <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:mrednZ2dnZ0J_uz4nZ2dnVF4Yd-dnZ2dRVn-0Z2dnZ0@adelphia.com...
>>
>> "Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:6e5Le.1858$rc6.936@fe03.lga...
>>
>> <snip>
>>> LOL! If you find one, ask him if he has any brothers...;) I have a
>>> friend that is looking. She keeps saying God hasn't put anyone in her
>>> life yet. Maybe she has been to wrapped up in her self to realize He
>>> might have put one in numerous times already. I don't know. Maybe she is
>>> looking for the perfect man..:) I hate to tell her......oh well, I won't
>>> get into that.
>>
>> Honey, straight men and "tops" have many charming qualities but their
>> basic nature precludes perfection. They are as innocent as children --
>> that is to say, they are demanding, self-absorbed, messy, forgetful,
>> suffering from ADD and have no fashion sense whatever. <LOL> I love
>> children but I wouldn't marry one.
>> Still, I take it as an article of faith that somewhere out there is a
>> totally "out" guy who is a "top" and yet manages to be sensitive,
>> thoughtful, considerate, intelligent, literate, self-supporting,
>> tasteful, well read, polite and kind. Notice that I didn't even bother
>> to put good looking on the list. If I could find a guy that had the rest
>> of the list I'd settle down to worship at his feet even if he was as ugly
>> as a bucket of frogs.
>> I'm not looking for him though. Somehow, I think that spending my
>> time searching for a partner would detract from the primary mission of
>> making sure that I'm turning into the me that I need to be. If he
>> happens to come around in the meantime, great.
>
> You know what they say about program guys looking for a woman to plug both
> their penis and umbilical cord into;-)

<L> Yeah, that's them all right.

Crystal

08-13-2005, 03:48 PM

"jim" <dingdong46@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:W13Le.198454$%K2.93376@pd7tw1no...
> Good luck Crystal. Why don't you check out an AA meeting, it's not
> "religious" ,there are tons of people in AA who dont believe in God, all
> you need is a higher power to tap into for strength and to take away your
> difficulties. I used to drink wine like you every day for years, then it
> was vodka for a couple of years and I had a big pot belly and looked
> flushed in the face all the time. I have lost the pot since quitting and
> the flushing is all but stopped, feel much more energy and not as anxious
> and nervous as I was.What do you do if someone drops in on you or calls
> you when you are drunk like your'e mum someone from work? I dont worry
> about that now.
> Jim

1-1/2 liters of wine each nice does nothing but mellow me out, I don't "get
drunk". I have a very high tolerance and people can't tell I've been
drinking even if I go out to a bar and down 10 beers. Well, that is what I
did last night, tonight I'm finishing the wine in the house and then not
buying any more. I know I should just dump the wine and start tonight, but
I think I'd be like a dieter deprived an occasional cookie if I don't stop
drinking on my own terms. I'll check back in Monday or Tuesday night and
see if I have been able to stop and see how I am coping with it.

As for AA meetings, I can't do that, I live in a small town and the chance
of someone I know from work being there is very possible. Ironically, I
work for a government agency that deals with alcohol abuse, extensive
supervision, alcohol support groups and therapists. I know everyone at work
and around the town that has a drinking problem, and they don't know I am
trying to quit and I don't want them to know about me.

DaveB

08-13-2005, 04:05 PM

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 19:48:19 GMT, "Crystal"
<idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"jim" <dingdong46@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>news:W13Le.198454$%K2.93376@pd7tw1no...
>> Good luck Crystal. Why don't you check out an AA meeting, it's not
>> "religious" ,there are tons of people in AA who dont believe in God, all
>> you need is a higher power to tap into for strength and to take away your
>> difficulties. I used to drink wine like you every day for years, then it
>> was vodka for a couple of years and I had a big pot belly and looked
>> flushed in the face all the time. I have lost the pot since quitting and
>> the flushing is all but stopped, feel much more energy and not as anxious
>> and nervous as I was.What do you do if someone drops in on you or calls
>> you when you are drunk like your'e mum someone from work? I dont worry
>> about that now.
>> Jim
>
>
>1-1/2 liters of wine each nice does nothing but mellow me out, I don't "get
>drunk". I have a very high tolerance and people can't tell I've been
>drinking even if I go out to a bar and down 10 beers. Well, that is what I
>did last night, tonight I'm finishing the wine in the house and then not
>buying any more. I know I should just dump the wine and start tonight, but
>I think I'd be like a dieter deprived an occasional cookie if I don't stop
>drinking on my own terms. I'll check back in Monday or Tuesday night and
>see if I have been able to stop and see how I am coping with it.
>
>As for AA meetings, I can't do that, I live in a small town and the chance
>of someone I know from work being there is very possible. Ironically, I
>work for a government agency that deals with alcohol abuse, extensive
>supervision, alcohol support groups and therapists. I know everyone at work
>and around the town that has a drinking problem, and they don't know I am
>trying to quit and I don't want them to know about me.

Lol, if your all that worried about what everyone else thinks, you
have your work cut out for you.

I like the" high tolerance part" btw.

Good luck whatever you do even if you keep drinking.

Regards
>
>
>

Daveb

rosie read n' post

08-13-2005, 05:31 PM

crystal,
having a "high tolerance" for alcohol is NOT a good
sign............................i had a "hollow leg" myself!

--

"Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:78sLe.4449$j21.333@news01.roc.ny...
>
> "jim" <dingdong46@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:W13Le.198454$%K2.93376@pd7tw1no...
> > Good luck Crystal. Why don't you check out an AA meeting, it's not
> > "religious" ,there are tons of people in AA who dont believe in God,
all
> > you need is a higher power to tap into for strength and to take away
your
> > difficulties. I used to drink wine like you every day for years,
then it
> > was vodka for a couple of years and I had a big pot belly and looked
> > flushed in the face all the time. I have lost the pot since quitting
and
> > the flushing is all but stopped, feel much more energy and not as
anxious
> > and nervous as I was.What do you do if someone drops in on you or
calls
> > you when you are drunk like your'e mum someone from work? I dont
worry
> > about that now.
> > Jim
>
>
> 1-1/2 liters of wine each nice does nothing but mellow me out, I don't
"get
> drunk". I have a very high tolerance and people can't tell I've been
> drinking even if I go out to a bar and down 10 beers. Well, that is
what I
> did last night, tonight I'm finishing the wine in the house and then
not
> buying any more. I know I should just dump the wine and start
tonight, but
> I think I'd be like a dieter deprived an occasional cookie if I don't
stop
> drinking on my own terms. I'll check back in Monday or Tuesday night
and
> see if I have been able to stop and see how I am coping with it.
>
> As for AA meetings, I can't do that, I live in a small town and the
chance
> of someone I know from work being there is very possible. Ironically,
I
> work for a government agency that deals with alcohol abuse, extensive
> supervision, alcohol support groups and therapists. I know everyone
at work
> and around the town that has a drinking problem, and they don't know I
am
> trying to quit and I don't want them to know about me.
>
>
>

Ken Ragge

08-13-2005, 08:19 PM

rosie read n' post wrote:

> hello crystal,
> by all means give stopping drinking a try.
> you might want to look for a local AA meeting.
> it isn't religious..................if it were, i wouldn't be there, for
> sure!

Crystal,

Don't believe it when they tell you AA is not
relgious or come off saying silly things like
AA is "spiritual not religious." For group members
that is a learned response and has nothing to do
with the truth of the matter.

AA has been ruled religious by several Federal
Circuit and State Supreme Courts. The Steps are
all about "finding God." From Chapter Five of the
Big Book often read at meetings,

"Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter
to the agnostic, and our personal adventure
before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
(c) That God could and would if He were sought."

Of course a program that is about finding God is a
religious program. The reasons group members will
give for it not being religious are silly things like,
"You can pick any higher power you want" with the
expectation the with time you'll see God as they
understand Him.

AA and other 12 Step groups are not normal religious
groups like the Christians, Hindus, Jews and etc. They
fall under the category of religious cult.

Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com

dan mcgown

08-13-2005, 09:25 PM

"Ken Ragge" <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:TbKdnRvnKaewE2PfRVn-3A@comcast.com...
>
>
> rosie read n' post wrote:
>
>> hello crystal,
>> by all means give stopping drinking a try.
>> you might want to look for a local AA meeting.
>> it isn't religious..................if it were, i wouldn't be there, for
>> sure!
>
> Crystal,
>
> Don't believe it when they tell you AA is not
> relgious or come off saying silly things like
> AA is "spiritual not religious." For group members
> that is a learned response and has nothing to do
> with the truth of the matter.
>
> AA has been ruled religious by several Federal
> Circuit and State Supreme Courts. The Steps are
> all about "finding God." From Chapter Five of the
> Big Book often read at meetings,
>
> "Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter
> to the agnostic, and our personal adventure
> before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
> (a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
> (b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
> (c) That God could and would if He were sought."
>
> Of course a program that is about finding God is a
> religious program. The reasons group members will
> give for it not being religious are silly things like,
> "You can pick any higher power you want" with the
> expectation the with time you'll see God as they
> understand Him.
>
> AA and other 12 Step groups are not normal religious
> groups like the Christians, Hindus, Jews and etc. They
> fall under the category of religious cult.
>
> Ken Ragge
> http://www.morerevealed.com

Ken,
Your singleminded determination to cast all AA groups with one mold is
so cute. I guess that everyone needs an obsession and you have certainly
found yours.
For what it's worth, though, the truth is that groups differ greatly.
For example, in the new group that I have been working with most of the
people have spent a lifetime being condemned and pushed around by almost
evry religious group that they have contact with. As a result, some of them
have an absolute phobia about religious references of any kind. In
consideration of their feelings, we don't even do the serenity prayer.
There a other meetings for people who want to say it.

Crystal,
AA is like any other group. Some of us are religious and some of us
aren't, some of us are Republican and some of us are Democrats, most of us
are straight and some of us are gay, . . . . The only requirement for
membership is a desire to stop drinking. It works for some people and it
doesn't work for others. It works for me and it might work for you. One
way or the other, make up your own mind and don't let anyone push you in or
push you out.
Dan

Crystal

08-13-2005, 10:31 PM

"dan mcgown" <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:brqdnSly8NYYAGPfRVn-oQ@adelphia.com...
>
> "Ken Ragge" <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:TbKdnRvnKaewE2PfRVn-3A@comcast.com...
>>
>>
>> rosie read n' post wrote:
>>
>>> hello crystal,
>>> by all means give stopping drinking a try.
>>> you might want to look for a local AA meeting.
>>> it isn't religious..................if it were, i wouldn't be there, for
>>> sure!
>>
>> Crystal,
>>
>> Don't believe it when they tell you AA is not
>> relgious or come off saying silly things like
>> AA is "spiritual not religious." For group members
>> that is a learned response and has nothing to do
>> with the truth of the matter.
>>
>> AA has been ruled religious by several Federal
>> Circuit and State Supreme Courts. The Steps are
>> all about "finding God." From Chapter Five of the
>> Big Book often read at meetings,
>>
>> "Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter
>> to the agnostic, and our personal adventure
>> before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
>> (a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
>> (b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
>> (c) That God could and would if He were sought."
>>
>> Of course a program that is about finding God is a
>> religious program. The reasons group members will
>> give for it not being religious are silly things like,
>> "You can pick any higher power you want" with the
>> expectation the with time you'll see God as they
>> understand Him.
>>
>> AA and other 12 Step groups are not normal religious
>> groups like the Christians, Hindus, Jews and etc. They
>> fall under the category of religious cult.
>>
>> Ken Ragge
>> http://www.morerevealed.com
>
> Ken,
> Your singleminded determination to cast all AA groups with one mold is
> so cute. I guess that everyone needs an obsession and you have certainly
> found yours.
> For what it's worth, though, the truth is that groups differ greatly.
> For example, in the new group that I have been working with most of the
> people have spent a lifetime being condemned and pushed around by almost
> evry religious group that they have contact with. As a result, some of
> them have an absolute phobia about religious references of any kind. In
> consideration of their feelings, we don't even do the serenity prayer.
> There a other meetings for people who want to say it.
>
> Crystal,
> AA is like any other group. Some of us are religious and some of us
> aren't, some of us are Republican and some of us are Democrats, most of us
> are straight and some of us are gay, . . . . The only requirement for
> membership is a desire to stop drinking. It works for some people and it
> doesn't work for others. It works for me and it might work for you. One
> way or the other, make up your own mind and don't let anyone push you in
> or push you out.
> Dan

well as I said before I probably won't join a meeting. Is there a way to
get an online sponsor, someone that you can talk to when you get the urge to
drink, etc.? And not necessarily in the usenet group, but more personal
like email. Is there anyone here in northern Wisconsin by chance?

Crystal

08-13-2005, 10:41 PM

Ken Ragge

08-13-2005, 11:37 PM

Crystal wrote:

> well, after careful reading of the 12 steps, I can only go with 1
and 4.
> For instance #8, I have never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off or effected
> anyone by my drinking. Most of the others name God or have something to do
> with God. They just don't apply to me. Isn't there anything else than AA
> out there?

Crystal,

First, yes there are other groups. There is a list of them
at http://www.morerevealed.com/orglinks.htm . The page is
in the process of being updated but most of them work. Also,
Moderation Management has an online abstinence support group
which you might find interesting.

Be careful about Step One. It isn't quite what it seems on
casual observance. Once they get you to admit you are
powerless, even in a small way, they will expand on it
using every problem you ever had in your life to
enforce the concept of "Powerlessness." The Big Book refers
to this as "tilling the black soil of hopelessness." Once
your are convinced things are hopeless and you need the
Steppers comes time for Step Two, "came to believe . . ."
The "higher power" starts out broadly but it is a bait
and switch to the AA "personal God" or Rescuing Deity as
you get further into the Steps.

There is a yahoo group of over 1200 members who are
ex-Steppers that you might be interested in reading
to see the downside of Step groups, the harm they cause.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/12-step-free/ . Many
of them consider themselves lucky they got out alive.

Also, at the url at the bottom of this page there are four
books in "the library" about Step groups that you might
find interesting.

Best of luck,
Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com

Robert McGregor

08-13-2005, 11:58 PM

"rosie read n' post" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hm4Le.4333$mb4.3036@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com
> you might want to look for a local AA meeting.
> it isn't religious..................if it were, i wouldn't be
> there, for sure!
>

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=religion re·li·gion
Pronunciation Key (r-ljn) n. Belief in and reverence for a
supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the
universe.

http://tinyurl.com/22833 Alcoholics Anonymous. For our group purpose
there is but one ultimate authority a loving God as He may express
Himself in our group conscience.

Sam

08-14-2005, 08:27 AM

Crystal wrote:
> "Ken Ragge" <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
>
>
> well, after careful reading of the 12 steps, I can only go with 1 and 4.
> For instance #8, I have never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off or effected
> anyone by my drinking. Most of the others name God or have something to do
> with God. They just don't apply to me. Isn't there anything else than AA
> out there?
>
>

Keep lying to yourself Crystal, and it will all
go away with your next bottle or two, or three.
It always did for most of us.

If you really think you have never done harm to someone, skipped work
because of a hangover, stayed at home and got
drunk to avoid friends (if you have any,
but woman at bars always have friends).

So Crystal, how rounds do you buy at the bar to keep
people around you ? Or the other way around ? You whore
for drinks, I mean not for sex. But you go to bars
knowing some fool will keep buying your fix for you ?

Ever show up drunk at a family event .. believe me sober
people can tell a drunk a mile away even if you think your
acting normal ... They enable you. Poor Crystal has nothing
so she needs a drink to function. Poor Crystal. Don't say
anything to her because she is fat, or jobless, or lonely.
Had sex what a complete stranger and barely remember where/who ? Lied
about your drinking ?

You can skip #4 too then. Afraid of the personal inventory.
Hide behide the computer. Do it you way. Your schedule.
Your already playing it your way. Go ahead. Your chances are Nil.

Your start living the life on page 8. It is another stage we all
go through.

Now your simply a drunk staying with step 1. A lonely shutin
avoiding life trying to take the easy path. Follow Ken's advice.
Find some sucker as a *sponsor* online that you can become a bigger
liar to, sitting behind a computer drinking your cheap wine.

The only difference between you and the wino outside is
neither of you have really hit bottom yet becasue your alive !
The wino on the street thinks he has it made for $2 liver rot
wine, eating trash from a dumpster, and a wet box to
sleep in. Your right in line for that box.

We've all seen it. Some of us have lived it.

Get a couple more DWI, Lose another job. Maybe kill a family.
Too late then. Jail time. Liver failure. Drunks can't afford
a $75,000 replacement. Ken is distracting you because he
is giving you an easy out.

Ken, Fuck off.

FreeBooks_at_2020ok_com@yahoo.com

08-14-2005, 09:09 AM

I had good experience with AA, highly recommend.

John S.
----------------------------------------------------
http://2020ok.com
The Largest Collection Of Free Online Books On Earth!

Gregg Fowler

08-14-2005, 09:26 AM

Sam wrote:
> Crystal wrote:
>
>> "Ken Ragge" <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>
>> well, after careful reading of the 12 steps, I can only go with 1 and
>> 4. For instance #8, I have never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off or
>> effected anyone by my drinking. Most of the others name God or have
>> something to do with God. They just don't apply to me. Isn't there
>> anything else than AA out there?
>>

>
> Get a couple more DWI, Lose another job. Maybe kill a family.
> Too late then. Jail time. Liver failure. Drunks can't afford
> a $75,000 replacement. Ken is distracting you because he
> is giving you an easy out.
>
> Ken, Fuck off.
>
>

And you are a sunny lot of help? There are many other options available
for support other than AA and there is some good support from some AA
groups. If it were a case of attraction, then it would be an easy choice
to look at what Ken is saying, than to listen to your ship an become a
miserable fuck also. Crystal, here is a website you might check out.
There is an email list and meetings in many cities:

http://unhooked.com

Sam

08-14-2005, 11:04 AM

Gregg Fowler wrote:

>>
>
> And you are a sunny lot of help? There are many other options available
> for support other than AA and there is some good support from some AA
> groups.

We all view this differently.
Welcome aboard Crystal.
Are are sick ?
I'm sorry.
Have a cup of tea.
Come back tomorrow.
Make an efford and keep coming back.

Skip the god thing. Sure. Most of us avoided it.
Spend some time at a real meeting with people like
you, who've been there. Hear some horror stories.
Hear the sharing. Hear the success. Talk to real people and your
discover and they will see the liar you are
because we all started at the same place. AA.
Meet the homeless that went to bottom and came
back now with jobs, medical insurance, home, family.
real friends, not the selfish drunks at the bar looking
for drinks.

My home group is very friendly. I am too in person.
Don't bull shit me. Don't waste my time. You want
what I got .. soberity and a feeling of be alive again,
come on in. I love ya ! If you want sympathy. Pitty, you gota give
something in return. Like a commitment. 90 in 90. You get the drill.

Up front and in person. You have been hiding too long.

Welcome to the fellowship.

Keep coming back. It works. Or you die.

> If it were a case of attraction, then it would be an easy choice
> to look at what Ken is saying, than to listen to your ship an become a
> miserable fuck also. Crystal, here is a website you might check out.
> There is an email list and meetings in many cities:
>
> http://unhooked.com

David M

08-14-2005, 01:18 PM

Crystal wrote:

> well, after careful reading of the 12 steps, I can only go with 1
> and 4. For instance #8, I have never harmed anyone, pissed
> anyone off or effected anyone by my drinking.

If I were you, Crystal, I'd keep a tight grip on something heavy at
all times. Otherwise you risk rising spontaneously into heaven.
;-)

Crystal

08-14-2005, 01:28 PM

"Sam" <SamT@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:VMGLe.145193$0f.11053@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Crystal wrote:
>> "Ken Ragge" <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message well, after careful reading
>> of the 12 steps, I can only go with 1 and 4. For instance #8, I have
>> never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off or effected anyone by my drinking.
>> Most of the others name God or have something to do with God. They just
>> don't apply to me. Isn't there anything else than AA out there?
>>
>>
>
> Keep lying to yourself Crystal, and it will all
> go away with your next bottle or two, or three.
> It always did for most of us.
>
> If you really think you have never done harm to someone, skipped work
> because of a hangover, stayed at home and got
> drunk to avoid friends (if you have any,
> but woman at bars always have friends).
>
> So Crystal, how rounds do you buy at the bar to keep
> people around you ? Or the other way around ? You whore
> for drinks, I mean not for sex. But you go to bars
> knowing some fool will keep buying your fix for you ?
>
> Ever show up drunk at a family event .. believe me sober
> people can tell a drunk a mile away even if you think your
> acting normal ... They enable you. Poor Crystal has nothing
> so she needs a drink to function. Poor Crystal. Don't say
> anything to her because she is fat, or jobless, or lonely.
> Had sex what a complete stranger and barely remember where/who ? Lied
> about your drinking ?
>
> You can skip #4 too then. Afraid of the personal inventory.
> Hide behide the computer. Do it you way. Your schedule.
> Your already playing it your way. Go ahead. Your chances are Nil.
>
> Your start living the life on page 8. It is another stage we all
> go through.
>
> Now your simply a drunk staying with step 1. A lonely shutin
> avoiding life trying to take the easy path. Follow Ken's advice.
> Find some sucker as a *sponsor* online that you can become a bigger
> liar to, sitting behind a computer drinking your cheap wine.
>
> The only difference between you and the wino outside is
> neither of you have really hit bottom yet becasue your alive !
> The wino on the street thinks he has it made for $2 liver rot
> wine, eating trash from a dumpster, and a wet box to
> sleep in. Your right in line for that box.
>
> We've all seen it. Some of us have lived it.
>
> Get a couple more DWI, Lose another job. Maybe kill a family.
> Too late then. Jail time. Liver failure. Drunks can't afford
> a $75,000 replacement. Ken is distracting you because he
> is giving you an easy out.
>
> Ken, Fuck off.

No, Sam you fuck off. Boy you got me ALL wrong. And I'm not lying to
myself. How dare you say the things you said to me in the above post. The
answer to everything is NO. Boy, are you a scumbag.

Crystal

08-14-2005, 01:32 PM

"David M" <dhmce@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:3m9cmuF15ur3hU1@individual.net...
> Crystal wrote:
>
>> well, after careful reading of the 12 steps, I can only go with 1
>> and 4. For instance #8, I have never harmed anyone, pissed
>> anyone off or effected anyone by my drinking.
>
> If I were you, Crystal, I'd keep a tight grip on something heavy at
> all times. Otherwise you risk rising spontaneously into heaven.
> ;-)

I'll say it again, I have never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off or
effected anyone by my drinking. If that is so hard to believe then maybe I
am not an "alcoholic" afterall.

stuart

08-14-2005, 01:34 PM

Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:u4GdneE9j7LuIWPfRVn-1w@comcast.com...
>
>
> Crystal wrote:
>
> > well, after careful reading of the 12 steps, I can only go with 1
> and 4.
> > For instance #8, I have never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off or
effected
> > anyone by my drinking. Most of the others name God or have something to
do
> > with God. They just don't apply to me. Isn't there anything else than
AA
> > out there?
>
> Crystal,
>
> First, yes there are other groups. There is a list of them
> at http://www.morerevealed.com/orglinks.htm . The page is
> in the process of being updated but most of them work. Also,
> Moderation Management has an online abstinence support group
> which you might find interesting.
>
> Be careful about Step One. It isn't quite what it seems on
> casual observance. Once they get you to admit you are
> powerless, even in a small way, they will expand on it
> using every problem you ever had in your life to
> enforce the concept of "Powerlessness." The Big Book refers
> to this as "tilling the black soil of hopelessness." Once
> your are convinced things are hopeless and you need the
> Steppers comes time for Step Two, "came to believe . . ."
> The "higher power" starts out broadly but it is a bait
> and switch to the AA "personal God" or Rescuing Deity as
> you get further into the Steps.
>
> There is a yahoo group of over 1200 members who are
> ex-Steppers that you might be interested in reading
> to see the downside of Step groups, the harm they cause.
> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/12-step-free/ . Many
> of them consider themselves lucky they got out alive.
>
> Also, at the url at the bottom of this page there are four
> books in "the library" about Step groups that you might
> find interesting.
>
> Best of luck,
> Ken Ragge
> http://www.morerevealed.com

Humility was never in your vocabulary Ken. "Powerlessness" does not imply
impotence over every aspect of our lives. It does however, encourage to
think of ourselves as 'right-sized' relative to the world around us. What
you seem to fail to understand is that the concept does not in any way
attempt to downgrade or denigrate the self-determination of the individual
in recovery, in fact it actually reinforces it, if it put into the correct
perspective.
Sure, the 12 steps were written in the 1930's using the language of the day.
They were attempting to be non-religious, however, the authors were not
muslims originally, nor were they buddists. Indeed, most were just bad
actors when drinking. They used their christian backgrounds to come up with
a language they could use as a basis for understanding.
My own opinion is that the 'higher power' concept could be more analagous to
a new-age creative force, and the 'character-defect' concept is more
analagous to Trimpey's beast.
Most of the fellows in my own circle have transferred the concepts of the 12
steps into a more upgraded set of tools which definitely work for us.
There are alternatives to the 12 steps to sobriety, and they are all good
and have merit. I've suggested to you before, and I would suggest to you
again that one bashing the other gets nowhere, and it looks lousy on you

>

stuart

08-14-2005, 01:43 PM

Crystal <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LaLLe.4519$j21.62@news01.roc.ny...
>
> "Sam" <SamT@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:VMGLe.145193$0f.11053@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> > Crystal wrote:
> >> "Ken Ragge" <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message well, after careful
reading
> >> of the 12 steps, I can only go with 1 and 4. For instance #8, I have
> >> never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off or effected anyone by my
drinking.
> >> Most of the others name God or have something to do with God. They
just
> >> don't apply to me. Isn't there anything else than AA out there?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Keep lying to yourself Crystal, and it will all
> > go away with your next bottle or two, or three.
> > It always did for most of us.
> >
> > If you really think you have never done harm to someone, skipped work
> > because of a hangover, stayed at home and got
> > drunk to avoid friends (if you have any,
> > but woman at bars always have friends).
> >
> > So Crystal, how rounds do you buy at the bar to keep
> > people around you ? Or the other way around ? You whore
> > for drinks, I mean not for sex. But you go to bars
> > knowing some fool will keep buying your fix for you ?
> >
> > Ever show up drunk at a family event .. believe me sober
> > people can tell a drunk a mile away even if you think your
> > acting normal ... They enable you. Poor Crystal has nothing
> > so she needs a drink to function. Poor Crystal. Don't say
> > anything to her because she is fat, or jobless, or lonely.
> > Had sex what a complete stranger and barely remember where/who ? Lied
> > about your drinking ?
> >
> > You can skip #4 too then. Afraid of the personal inventory.
> > Hide behide the computer. Do it you way. Your schedule.
> > Your already playing it your way. Go ahead. Your chances are Nil.
> >
> > Your start living the life on page 8. It is another stage we all
> > go through.
> >
> > Now your simply a drunk staying with step 1. A lonely shutin
> > avoiding life trying to take the easy path. Follow Ken's advice.
> > Find some sucker as a *sponsor* online that you can become a bigger
> > liar to, sitting behind a computer drinking your cheap wine.
> >
> > The only difference between you and the wino outside is
> > neither of you have really hit bottom yet becasue your alive !
> > The wino on the street thinks he has it made for $2 liver rot
> > wine, eating trash from a dumpster, and a wet box to
> > sleep in. Your right in line for that box.
> >
> > We've all seen it. Some of us have lived it.
> >
> > Get a couple more DWI, Lose another job. Maybe kill a family.
> > Too late then. Jail time. Liver failure. Drunks can't afford
> > a $75,000 replacement. Ken is distracting you because he
> > is giving you an easy out.
> >
> > Ken, Fuck off.
>
>
> No, Sam you fuck off. Boy you got me ALL wrong. And I'm not lying to
> myself. How dare you say the things you said to me in the above post.
The
> answer to everything is NO. Boy, are you a scumbag.

Hey, Crystal, he doesn't have a clue who you are. So why get upset over his
innacuracy? You are a solid, well-adjusted, normal, and confident person.
A scumbag has every right to be scumbag, don't you think?

>
>
>
>

Crystal

08-14-2005, 01:49 PM

"stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:PoLLe.134567$wr.122872@clgrps12...
>
> Crystal <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:LaLLe.4519$j21.62@news01.roc.ny...
>>
>> "Sam" <SamT@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:VMGLe.145193$0f.11053@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>> > Crystal wrote:
>> >> "Ken Ragge" <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message well, after careful
> reading
>> >> of the 12 steps, I can only go with 1 and 4. For instance #8, I have
>> >> never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off or effected anyone by my
> drinking.
>> >> Most of the others name God or have something to do with God. They
> just
>> >> don't apply to me. Isn't there anything else than AA out there?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Keep lying to yourself Crystal, and it will all
>> > go away with your next bottle or two, or three.
>> > It always did for most of us.
>> >
>> > If you really think you have never done harm to someone, skipped work
>> > because of a hangover, stayed at home and got
>> > drunk to avoid friends (if you have any,
>> > but woman at bars always have friends).
>> >
>> > So Crystal, how rounds do you buy at the bar to keep
>> > people around you ? Or the other way around ? You whore
>> > for drinks, I mean not for sex. But you go to bars
>> > knowing some fool will keep buying your fix for you ?
>> >
>> > Ever show up drunk at a family event .. believe me sober
>> > people can tell a drunk a mile away even if you think your
>> > acting normal ... They enable you. Poor Crystal has nothing
>> > so she needs a drink to function. Poor Crystal. Don't say
>> > anything to her because she is fat, or jobless, or lonely.
>> > Had sex what a complete stranger and barely remember where/who ? Lied
>> > about your drinking ?
>> >
>> > You can skip #4 too then. Afraid of the personal inventory.
>> > Hide behide the computer. Do it you way. Your schedule.
>> > Your already playing it your way. Go ahead. Your chances are Nil.
>> >
>> > Your start living the life on page 8. It is another stage we all
>> > go through.
>> >
>> > Now your simply a drunk staying with step 1. A lonely shutin
>> > avoiding life trying to take the easy path. Follow Ken's advice.
>> > Find some sucker as a *sponsor* online that you can become a bigger
>> > liar to, sitting behind a computer drinking your cheap wine.
>> >
>> > The only difference between you and the wino outside is
>> > neither of you have really hit bottom yet becasue your alive !
>> > The wino on the street thinks he has it made for $2 liver rot
>> > wine, eating trash from a dumpster, and a wet box to
>> > sleep in. Your right in line for that box.
>> >
>> > We've all seen it. Some of us have lived it.
>> >
>> > Get a couple more DWI, Lose another job. Maybe kill a family.
>> > Too late then. Jail time. Liver failure. Drunks can't afford
>> > a $75,000 replacement. Ken is distracting you because he
>> > is giving you an easy out.
>> >
>> > Ken, Fuck off.
>>
>>
>> No, Sam you fuck off. Boy you got me ALL wrong. And I'm not lying to
>> myself. How dare you say the things you said to me in the above post.
> The
>> answer to everything is NO. Boy, are you a scumbag.
>
> Hey, Crystal, he doesn't have a clue who you are. So why get upset over
> his
> innacuracy? You are a solid, well-adjusted, normal, and confident person.
> A scumbag has every right to be scumbag, don't you think?

I just hate when people make assumptions, just as much as I hate sarcasm.
Sure, there probably are a lot of alcoholics who fit what he described, and
maybe in his sick mind he thought he had me pegged, or took a shot hoping
he'd get me right on make me shake in my boots and scratch my head wondering
how he knew me so well. Not.

Truth is there are vast variations of alcoholics. Lets say on a scale of 1
being low average alcoholic and a 5 being extreme like what he described, I
am a 1. I just wish people would think before they speak and think if they
might hurt someone's feelings in the process.

stuart

08-14-2005, 01:54 PM

Crystal <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6fLLe.4520$j21.48@news01.roc.ny...
>
> "David M" <dhmce@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news:3m9cmuF15ur3hU1@individual.net...
> > Crystal wrote:
> >
> >> well, after careful reading of the 12 steps, I can only go with 1
> >> and 4. For instance #8, I have never harmed anyone, pissed
> >> anyone off or effected anyone by my drinking.
> >
> > If I were you, Crystal, I'd keep a tight grip on something heavy at
> > all times. Otherwise you risk rising spontaneously into heaven.
> > ;-)
>
>
> I'll say it again, I have never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off or
> effected anyone by my drinking. If that is so hard to believe then maybe
I
> am not an "alcoholic" afterall.

By the sound of your original post, Crystal, you are indeed a very nice and
caring sort of lady, who would not piss anybody off, or wish to affect
anyone with your drinking.
I was somewhat like you, I retreated to my place and drank alone, more or
less. Your post hit home with me because you drank wine, like I did, and
about the same amount per day1-1/2 liters. Wow. I always suited up and
showed up every morning to do battle at work, and was very proud of my
self-suffuciency, and my work ethic.
As time went on, and I got into my 30's, I began to slow down just a little
bit, and it became to get a little bit more difficult. I was an athlete in
my teens and 20's so I had a concept of what good fitness felt like, and I
came to the eventual relaization that I was definitely slipping into a very
stodgy middle-aged guy. It was getting tougher to climb stairs and walk
distances.
It was only after two or three years of quitting, and losing the weight and
the general mental lethargy I didn't know i was suffering from as the result
of drinking that I realized that the first person i was affecting by my
drinking was me.
Additionally, I retrospectivelly realized that my employer was also not
really getting my "best" either, in spite of my herculean work efforts
during the day. And then there was my family and friends who I hurt by my
non-participation and non-concern in their lives. All I cared about was me,
and my own feelings, and my own little comforts in my vino every night.
If you are drinking like that, then maybe you are addicted to alcohol. Try
stopping for a couple of months, if you can. You'll know whether or not you
are alcoholic after a bit.
Best of luck either way, Crytal/

>
>
>

stuart

08-14-2005, 02:03 PM

Crystal <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:QuLLe.4127$cg.2398@news02.roc.ny...
>
> "stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:PoLLe.134567$wr.122872@clgrps12...
> >
> > Crystal <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:LaLLe.4519$j21.62@news01.roc.ny...
> >>
> >> "Sam" <SamT@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:VMGLe.145193$0f.11053@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> >> > Crystal wrote:
> >> >> "Ken Ragge" <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message well, after careful
> > reading
> >> >> of the 12 steps, I can only go with 1 and 4. For instance #8, I have
> >> >> never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off or effected anyone by my
> > drinking.
> >> >> Most of the others name God or have something to do with God. They
> > just
> >> >> don't apply to me. Isn't there anything else than AA out there?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Keep lying to yourself Crystal, and it will all
> >> > go away with your next bottle or two, or three.
> >> > It always did for most of us.
> >> >
> >> > If you really think you have never done harm to someone, skipped
work
> >> > because of a hangover, stayed at home and got
> >> > drunk to avoid friends (if you have any,
> >> > but woman at bars always have friends).
> >> >
> >> > So Crystal, how rounds do you buy at the bar to keep
> >> > people around you ? Or the other way around ? You whore
> >> > for drinks, I mean not for sex. But you go to bars
> >> > knowing some fool will keep buying your fix for you ?
> >> >
> >> > Ever show up drunk at a family event .. believe me sober
> >> > people can tell a drunk a mile away even if you think your
> >> > acting normal ... They enable you. Poor Crystal has nothing
> >> > so she needs a drink to function. Poor Crystal. Don't say
> >> > anything to her because she is fat, or jobless, or lonely.
> >> > Had sex what a complete stranger and barely remember where/who ?
Lied
> >> > about your drinking ?
> >> >
> >> > You can skip #4 too then. Afraid of the personal inventory.
> >> > Hide behide the computer. Do it you way. Your schedule.
> >> > Your already playing it your way. Go ahead. Your chances are Nil.
> >> >
> >> > Your start living the life on page 8. It is another stage we all
> >> > go through.
> >> >
> >> > Now your simply a drunk staying with step 1. A lonely shutin
> >> > avoiding life trying to take the easy path. Follow Ken's advice.
> >> > Find some sucker as a *sponsor* online that you can become a bigger
> >> > liar to, sitting behind a computer drinking your cheap wine.
> >> >
> >> > The only difference between you and the wino outside is
> >> > neither of you have really hit bottom yet becasue your alive !
> >> > The wino on the street thinks he has it made for $2 liver rot
> >> > wine, eating trash from a dumpster, and a wet box to
> >> > sleep in. Your right in line for that box.
> >> >
> >> > We've all seen it. Some of us have lived it.
> >> >
> >> > Get a couple more DWI, Lose another job. Maybe kill a family.
> >> > Too late then. Jail time. Liver failure. Drunks can't afford
> >> > a $75,000 replacement. Ken is distracting you because he
> >> > is giving you an easy out.
> >> >
> >> > Ken, Fuck off.
> >>
> >>
> >> No, Sam you fuck off. Boy you got me ALL wrong. And I'm not lying to
> >> myself. How dare you say the things you said to me in the above post.
> > The
> >> answer to everything is NO. Boy, are you a scumbag.
> >
> > Hey, Crystal, he doesn't have a clue who you are. So why get upset over
> > his
> > innacuracy? You are a solid, well-adjusted, normal, and confident
person.
> > A scumbag has every right to be scumbag, don't you think?
>
>
> I just hate when people make assumptions, just as much as I hate sarcasm.
> Sure, there probably are a lot of alcoholics who fit what he described,
and
> maybe in his sick mind he thought he had me pegged, or took a shot hoping
> he'd get me right on make me shake in my boots and scratch my head
wondering
> how he knew me so well. Not.
>
> Truth is there are vast variations of alcoholics. Lets say on a scale of
1
> being low average alcoholic and a 5 being extreme like what he described,
I
> am a 1. I just wish people would think before they speak and think if
they
> might hurt someone's feelings in the process.

If indeed you are alcoholic there's no in betweens, really. But we do say
often that some are sicker than others.
You will find quite a few recovered alcoholics who draw unfair assumptions.
What he is really doing is relating you to himself, that's all. After all
some of us were not totally honest at first about our drinking history. I
think he's suggesting you are possibly one of them. I don't personally think
so, but, you may want to take a second look at why you seemed indignant with
his sleazy innuendo. What was it that offended you and why? I would relish
it as an exercise in self-examination myself.

David M

08-14-2005, 02:14 PM

Crystal wrote:

> I'll say it again, I have never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off
> or effected anyone by my drinking. If that is so hard to believe
> then maybe I am not an "alcoholic" afterall.

You said in your first post you have been drinking 1-1/2 liters of
wine a night for the past 20 years.

Are you now saying you have never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off
or affected anyone in all that time? That would indicate you
weren't even alive for the past 20 years.

Or are you saying you did, but not because of drinking? How do you
know how your behavior and its effects might have been different if
you hadn't been downing more than 11 tons of wine?

Crystal

08-14-2005, 04:10 PM

"David M" <dhmce@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:3m9g0hF15uaoiU1@individual.net...
> Crystal wrote:
>
>> I'll say it again, I have never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off
>> or effected anyone by my drinking. If that is so hard to believe
>> then maybe I am not an "alcoholic" afterall.
>
> You said in your first post you have been drinking 1-1/2 liters of
> wine a night for the past 20 years.
>
> Are you now saying you have never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off
> or affected anyone in all that time? That would indicate you
> weren't even alive for the past 20 years.
>
> Or are you saying you did, but not because of drinking? How do you
> know how your behavior and its effects might have been different if
> you hadn't been downing more than 11 tons of wine?

Sure I've had conflicts and disagreements with friends and family, just like
anyone, I was saying it was not as a result of my drinking habits.

How do I know my behavior and its effects might have been different if I
hadn't been drinking, well I don't. I do however believe I'm a pretty
wellrounded, level headed generally pretty normal person without any erratic
behaviors, troubles with the law, trouble at work, good energy level, etc.
I cannot think of anything that would be different if I didn't sink into my
wine meditation each night.

Crystal

08-14-2005, 04:24 PM

"stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ezLLe.134573$wr.105025@clgrps12...
>
> Crystal <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6fLLe.4520$j21.48@news01.roc.ny...
>>
>> "David M" <dhmce@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>> news:3m9cmuF15ur3hU1@individual.net...
>> > Crystal wrote:
>> >
>> >> well, after careful reading of the 12 steps, I can only go with 1
>> >> and 4. For instance #8, I have never harmed anyone, pissed
>> >> anyone off or effected anyone by my drinking.
>> >
>> > If I were you, Crystal, I'd keep a tight grip on something heavy at
>> > all times. Otherwise you risk rising spontaneously into heaven.
>> > ;-)
>>
>>
>> I'll say it again, I have never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off or
>> effected anyone by my drinking. If that is so hard to believe then maybe
> I
>> am not an "alcoholic" afterall.
>
> By the sound of your original post, Crystal, you are indeed a very nice
> and
> caring sort of lady, who would not piss anybody off, or wish to affect
> anyone with your drinking.
> I was somewhat like you, I retreated to my place and drank alone, more or
> less. Your post hit home with me because you drank wine, like I did, and
> about the same amount per day1-1/2 liters. Wow. I always suited up and
> showed up every morning to do battle at work, and was very proud of my
> self-suffuciency, and my work ethic.
> As time went on, and I got into my 30's, I began to slow down just a
> little
> bit, and it became to get a little bit more difficult. I was an athlete in
> my teens and 20's so I had a concept of what good fitness felt like, and I
> came to the eventual relaization that I was definitely slipping into a
> very
> stodgy middle-aged guy. It was getting tougher to climb stairs and walk
> distances.
> It was only after two or three years of quitting, and losing the weight
> and
> the general mental lethargy I didn't know i was suffering from as the
> result
> of drinking that I realized that the first person i was affecting by my
> drinking was me.
> Additionally, I retrospectivelly realized that my employer was also not
> really getting my "best" either, in spite of my herculean work efforts
> during the day. And then there was my family and friends who I hurt by my
> non-participation and non-concern in their lives. All I cared about was
> me,
> and my own feelings, and my own little comforts in my vino every night.
> If you are drinking like that, then maybe you are addicted to alcohol. Try
> stopping for a couple of months, if you can. You'll know whether or not
> you
> are alcoholic after a bit.
> Best of luck either way, Crytal/

Stuart, it is a breath of fresh air to hear from you. I think you may be
right and you might be able to understand me more than anyone else here I've
met so far. I didn't say my age, but I will be 40 in a few months. While I
could use a little more energy, and I do get winded after lots of stairs or
a long brisk walk, I figured it was just my weight and I never tried it with
drinking in any way. okay I've got a confession, and this comes out of a
revelation I just had. I have backed away from going to some social events
with friends or co-workers because they were "dry" events, if they served
wine maybe I would have gone. That's pretty bad huh? I use to do the same
thing when I smoked, if it was a non-smoking event I'd pass up going.

I recently have toyed with the idea of going out with people in the area
from online personals. If they say they don't drink, I don't continue to
look at their profile. I talked to one person and once it came down to
actually meeting them, I chickened out.

What I would like to accomplish is to stop drinking, see if I realize any
changes in myself and how I feel. Then answer a personal ad of a person who
doesn't drink and actually take the step and go out with them. I'd like to
prove myself wrong and find out that I am a totally different person without
alcohol always being in my blood to some degree or another.

Like I had said before, I smoked two packs a day for 18 years, it took me
three attempts but I quit and its been 5 years. I, nor my friends ever
thought I'd quit, then they decided to quit too. Now I need to tackle this,
I'm just wondering if it will be harder than I think it will. I feel
smoking was just the worst and hardest thing ever. I will quit drinking, or
make an honest attempt at it this week. I might fail, but like with
smoking, it took three times to finally succeed.

DaveB

08-14-2005, 04:28 PM

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:10:22 GMT, "Crystal"
<idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"David M" <dhmce@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>news:3m9g0hF15uaoiU1@individual.net...
>> Crystal wrote:
>>
>>> I'll say it again, I have never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off
>>> or effected anyone by my drinking. If that is so hard to believe
>>> then maybe I am not an "alcoholic" afterall.
>>
>> You said in your first post you have been drinking 1-1/2 liters of
>> wine a night for the past 20 years.
>>
>> Are you now saying you have never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off
>> or affected anyone in all that time? That would indicate you
>> weren't even alive for the past 20 years.
>>
>> Or are you saying you did, but not because of drinking? How do you
>> know how your behavior and its effects might have been different if
>> you hadn't been downing more than 11 tons of wine?
>
>
>Sure I've had conflicts and disagreements with friends and family, just like
>anyone, I was saying it was not as a result of my drinking habits.
>
>How do I know my behavior and its effects might have been different if I
>hadn't been drinking, well I don't. I do however believe I'm a pretty
>wellrounded, level headed generally pretty normal person without any erratic
>behaviors, troubles with the law, trouble at work, good energy level, etc.
>I cannot think of anything that would be different if I didn't sink into my
>wine meditation each night.

Sheeeeeeeesh...... so keep drinking and come back when you want a
solution or get with Ken he can entertain you with methods of
moderation.

Best
>
>

Daveb

Gail

08-14-2005, 05:22 PM

DaveB wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:10:22 GMT, "Crystal"
> <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "David M" <dhmce@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>> news:3m9g0hF15uaoiU1@individual.net...
>>> Crystal wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'll say it again, I have never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off
>>>> or effected anyone by my drinking. If that is so hard to believe
>>>> then maybe I am not an "alcoholic" afterall.
>>>
>>> You said in your first post you have been drinking 1-1/2 liters of
>>> wine a night for the past 20 years.
>>>
>>> Are you now saying you have never harmed anyone, pissed anyone off
>>> or affected anyone in all that time? That would indicate you
>>> weren't even alive for the past 20 years.
>>>
>>> Or are you saying you did, but not because of drinking? How do you
>>> know how your behavior and its effects might have been different if
>>> you hadn't been downing more than 11 tons of wine?
>>
>>
>> Sure I've had conflicts and disagreements with friends and family,
>> just like anyone, I was saying it was not as a result of my drinking
>> habits.
>>
>> How do I know my behavior and its effects might have been different
>> if I hadn't been drinking, well I don't. I do however believe I'm a
>> pretty wellrounded, level headed generally pretty normal person
>> without any erratic behaviors, troubles with the law, trouble at
>> work, good energy level, etc. I cannot think of anything that would
>> be different if I didn't sink into my wine meditation each night.
>
> Sheeeeeeeesh...... so keep drinking and come back when you want a
> solution or get with Ken he can entertain you with methods of
> moderation.
>
> Best
>>
>>
>
> Daveb

Here is a good one for you to use, Crystal. I have a woman in the Anger
Management group that I facilitate who was ordered by the courts to attend.
She says she doesn't have an anger problem and that she has two other
personalities and one of the other personalities committed the crime. That
was last week when she said that. She didn't show up this week. If she had,
and started that denial crap again, I was going to tell her she needed to
buy two more work books for those other two personalities.
I thought you were not going to post anymore until you started going without
the wine. High or something? Was it you that said drunks were boring?
Gail

rosie read n' post

08-14-2005, 06:52 PM

after being raised a strict roman catholic all my life, i KNOW religious
when i hear it........................
AA's not!

sorry ken!

--

"Ken Ragge" <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:TbKdnRvnKaewE2PfRVn-3A@comcast.com...
>
>
> rosie read n' post wrote:
>
> > hello crystal,
> > by all means give stopping drinking a try.
> > you might want to look for a local AA meeting.
> > it isn't religious..................if it were, i wouldn't be there,
for
> > sure!
>
> Crystal,
>
> Don't believe it when they tell you AA is not
> relgious or come off saying silly things like
> AA is "spiritual not religious." For group members
> that is a learned response and has nothing to do
> with the truth of the matter.
>
> AA has been ruled religious by several Federal
> Circuit and State Supreme Courts. The Steps are
> all about "finding God." From Chapter Five of the
> Big Book often read at meetings,
>
> "Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter
> to the agnostic, and our personal adventure
> before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
> (a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
> (b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
> (c) That God could and would if He were sought."
>
> Of course a program that is about finding God is a
> religious program. The reasons group members will
> give for it not being religious are silly things like,
> "You can pick any higher power you want" with the
> expectation the with time you'll see God as they
> understand Him.
>
> AA and other 12 Step groups are not normal religious
> groups like the Christians, Hindus, Jews and etc. They
> fall under the category of religious cult.
>
> Ken Ragge
> http://www.morerevealed.com
>
>

rosie read n' post

08-14-2005, 06:55 PM

http://www.aa-intergroup.org/

start looking for an AA meeting here crystal.
where are you in northern wisconsin........................i'm in
wisconsin too!

--

"Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:72yLe.4090$cg.3757@news02.roc.ny...
>
> "dan mcgown" <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:brqdnSly8NYYAGPfRVn-oQ@adelphia.com...
> >
> > "Ken Ragge" <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:TbKdnRvnKaewE2PfRVn-3A@comcast.com...
> >>
> >>
> >> rosie read n' post wrote:
> >>
> >>> hello crystal,
> >>> by all means give stopping drinking a try.
> >>> you might want to look for a local AA meeting.
> >>> it isn't religious..................if it were, i wouldn't be
there, for
> >>> sure!
> >>
> >> Crystal,
> >>
> >> Don't believe it when they tell you AA is not
> >> relgious or come off saying silly things like
> >> AA is "spiritual not religious." For group members
> >> that is a learned response and has nothing to do
> >> with the truth of the matter.
> >>
> >> AA has been ruled religious by several Federal
> >> Circuit and State Supreme Courts. The Steps are
> >> all about "finding God." From Chapter Five of the
> >> Big Book often read at meetings,
> >>
> >> "Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter
> >> to the agnostic, and our personal adventure
> >> before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
> >> (a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
> >> (b) That probably no human power could have relieved our
alcoholism.
> >> (c) That God could and would if He were sought."
> >>
> >> Of course a program that is about finding God is a
> >> religious program. The reasons group members will
> >> give for it not being religious are silly things like,
> >> "You can pick any higher power you want" with the
> >> expectation the with time you'll see God as they
> >> understand Him.
> >>
> >> AA and other 12 Step groups are not normal religious
> >> groups like the Christians, Hindus, Jews and etc. They
> >> fall under the category of religious cult.
> >>
> >> Ken Ragge
> >> http://www.morerevealed.com
> >
> > Ken,
> > Your singleminded determination to cast all AA groups with one
mold is
> > so cute. I guess that everyone needs an obsession and you have
certainly
> > found yours.
> > For what it's worth, though, the truth is that groups differ
greatly.
> > For example, in the new group that I have been working with most of
the
> > people have spent a lifetime being condemned and pushed around by
almost
> > evry religious group that they have contact with. As a result, some
of
> > them have an absolute phobia about religious references of any kind.
In
> > consideration of their feelings, we don't even do the serenity
prayer.
> > There a other meetings for people who want to say it.
> >
> > Crystal,
> > AA is like any other group. Some of us are religious and some
of us
> > aren't, some of us are Republican and some of us are Democrats, most
of us
> > are straight and some of us are gay, . . . . The only requirement
for
> > membership is a desire to stop drinking. It works for some people
and it
> > doesn't work for others. It works for me and it might work for you.
One
> > way or the other, make up your own mind and don't let anyone push
you in
> > or push you out.
> > Dan
>
>
> well as I said before I probably won't join a meeting. Is there a way
to
> get an online sponsor, someone that you can talk to when you get the
urge to
> drink, etc.? And not necessarily in the usenet group, but more
personal
> like email. Is there anyone here in northern Wisconsin by chance?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Crystal

08-14-2005, 06:58 PM

"rosie read n' post" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8ZPLe.7370$32.7156@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> http://www.aa-intergroup.org/
>
> start looking for an AA meeting here crystal.
> where are you in northern wisconsin........................i'm in
> wisconsin too!
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> "Crystal" <idontlikeemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:72yLe.4090$cg.3757@news02.roc.ny...
>>
>> "dan mcgown" <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>> news:brqdnSly8NYYAGPfRVn-oQ@adelphia.com...
>> >
>> > "Ken Ragge" <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> > news:TbKdnRvnKaewE2PfRVn-3A@comcast.com...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> rosie read n' post wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> hello crystal,
>> >>> by all means give stopping drinking a try.
>> >>> you might want to look for a local AA meeting.
>> >>> it isn't religious..................if it were, i wouldn't be
> there, for
>> >>> sure!
>> >>
>> >> Crystal,
>> >>
>> >> Don't believe it when they tell you AA is not
>> >> relgious or come off saying silly things like
>> >> AA is "spiritual not religious." For group members
>> >> that is a learned response and has nothing to do
>> >> with the truth of the matter.
>> >>
>> >> AA has been ruled religious by several Federal
>> >> Circuit and State Supreme Courts. The Steps are
>> >> all about "finding God." From Chapter Five of the
>> >> Big Book often read at meetings,
>> >>
>> >> "Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter
>> >> to the agnostic, and our personal adventure
>> >> before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
>> >> (a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
>> >> (b) That probably no human power could have relieved our
> alcoholism.
>> >> (c) That God could and would if He were sought."
>> >>
>> >> Of course a program that is about finding God is a
>> >> religious program. The reasons group members will
>> >> give for it not being religious are silly things like,
>> >> "You can pick any higher power you want&