Step 1 [Archive] - Drug & Alcohol Rehab Forums & News

Darren

08-10-2005, 06:05 AM

rosie read n' post

08-10-2005, 10:59 AM

if you have a BIG BOOK, i suggest that you skip to the stories. (page
165)

--

"Griffin McKorn" <JPP@Zoso.org> wrote in message
news:11tif1t796ln0ed5ovet36ocmdtfq6ief1@4ax.com...
> I'm really struggling with this step, I hope the other eleven are
> easier. Powerlessness. I have recently joined an out patient recovery
> program and was given a twelve question worksheet that pertains to
> step one. I've been reading and rereading this questioner and it's
> really hard for me to answer, maybe denial is playing a roll in my
> inability to complete this worksheet but I get the feeling that my
> consoler is questioning my commitment to sobriety. I' am really trying
> to work the program but the soul-searching is brutal.
>
> Had to get that off my chest.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Take Care,
> Griffin.

Bobby L

08-10-2005, 06:34 PM

"Griffin McKorn" <JPP@Zoso.org> wrote in message
news:11tif1t796ln0ed5ovet36ocmdtfq6ief1@4ax.com...
> I'm really struggling with this step, I hope the other eleven are
> easier. Powerlessness. I have recently joined an out patient recovery
> program and was given a twelve question worksheet that pertains to
> step one. I've been reading and rereading this questioner and it's
> really hard for me to answer, maybe denial is playing a roll in my
> inability to complete this worksheet but I get the feeling that my
> consoler is questioning my commitment to sobriety. I' am really trying
> to work the program but the soul-searching is brutal.
>
> Had to get that off my chest.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Take Care,
> Griffin.

Griffin,

If you're in denial then you are perhaps already making progress. Most of
us had to work up to denial from delusional.

Apparently step 1 is as difficult as we want to make it. Admitting you suck
as a drinker is a tough row to hoe.
Do you think you can or will ever be able to drink like normal people drink?
If you do, then you are simply not one of us and there's probably little for
you here -- for now.
If you have everything under control, then you are definitely not one of us.
We didn't get here because we spilled a couple of beers at a party.
Also, we're not a recruiting depot. Most of us completed step one before we
got here. Perhaps you might look at the short version of the first three
steps.
1. We Can't.
2. He Can.
3. We will try and let him.
Keep it simple.

Bobby L

rockhound

08-10-2005, 08:26 PM

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:41:24 -0700, Griffin McKorn <JPP@Zoso.org>
wrote:

> I'm really struggling with this step, I hope the other eleven are
>easier. Powerlessness. I have recently joined an out patient recovery
>program and was given a twelve question worksheet that pertains to
>step one. I've been reading and rereading this questioner and it's
>really hard for me to answer, maybe denial is playing a roll in my
>inability to complete this worksheet but I get the feeling that my
>consoler is questioning my commitment to sobriety. I' am really trying
>to work the program but the soul-searching is brutal.
>
> Had to get that off my chest.
>
>Thanks.
>
> Take Care,
> Griffin.

Counselors work for money and promotion and whatever else is up their
alley, and in that regard they'll tell you whatever benefits them for
the most part. You may wind up in trouble if you are leaning on them
for anything at all.

Alcoholics Anonymous has an awesome test, foolproof, very little
mindfuck involved - (although if you've somehow placed yourself under
the care and direction of counselors, they likely won't allow this),
but here it is verbatim anyway:

We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can
quickly diagnose yourself, step over to the nearest barroom and try
some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more
than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest
with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you
get a full knowledge of your condition.

lots more info here: http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_31.htm

Gail

08-10-2005, 10:46 PM

rockhound wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:41:24 -0700, Griffin McKorn <JPP@Zoso.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm really struggling with this step, I hope the other eleven are
>> easier. Powerlessness. I have recently joined an out patient recovery
>> program and was given a twelve question worksheet that pertains to
>> step one. I've been reading and rereading this questioner and it's
>> really hard for me to answer, maybe denial is playing a roll in my
>> inability to complete this worksheet but I get the feeling that my
>> consoler is questioning my commitment to sobriety. I' am really
>> trying to work the program but the soul-searching is brutal.
>>
>> Had to get that off my chest.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Take Care,
>> Griffin.
>
>
>
> Counselors work for money and promotion and whatever else is up their
> alley, and in that regard they'll tell you whatever benefits them for
> the most part. You may wind up in trouble if you are leaning on them
> for anything at all.

That is only your experience, right? That is not my experience. Lots of
good counselors.
Same could be said about AA, people in AA and sponsors being leaned on.

>
> Alcoholics Anonymous has an awesome test, foolproof, very little
> mindfuck involved - (although if you've somehow placed yourself under
> the care and direction of counselors, they likely won't allow this),
> but here it is verbatim anyway:

Again..That is only your experience, right? That is not my experience. I
have been around people in AA that fuck with peoples minds all the time. You
know the type. The guru ones that go on and on and on about absolutely
nothing and almost every one there is wondering what the fuck they were
saying except the poor newcomer sitting there nodding their head up and down
pretending to understand and agree with what the fucker just said...LOL! My
experience is that mind fuck goes on in AA about as much as it does with a
counselor. A person is fortunate if they have a good counselor and a good AA
group where niether doesn't fuck with the persons wallet, their mind and are
not self-seeking. but, it does happen in some AA's, and with some
counselor's. Just not all, so you are placing all counselors in that
category with your comments above. I disagree with you.

>
> We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can
> quickly diagnose yourself, step over to the nearest barroom and try
> some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more
> than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest
> with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you
> get a full knowledge of your condition.
>
> lots more info here: http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_31.htm

rosie read n' post

08-10-2005, 10:56 PM

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message >
>
> Counselors work for money and promotion and whatever else is up their
> alley, and in that regard they'll tell you whatever benefits them for
> the most part. You may wind up in trouble if you are leaning on them
> for anything at all.

good lord!
sounds like you have had a rough time?

Robert McGregor

08-11-2005, 01:10 AM

"Griffin McKorn" <JPP@Zoso.org> wrote in message
news:11tif1t796ln0ed5ovet36ocmdtfq6ief1@4ax.com
> I'm really struggling with this step, I hope the other eleven are
> easier. Powerlessness. I have recently joined an out patient
> recovery program and was given a twelve question worksheet that
> pertains to step one. I've been reading and rereading this
> questioner and it's really hard for me to answer, maybe denial is
> playing a roll in my inability to complete this worksheet but I
> get the feeling that my consoler is questioning my commitment to
> sobriety. I' am really trying to work the program but the
> soul-searching is brutal.
>
> Had to get that off my chest.
>
> Thanks.
>

The AA step one is two parts, not 12. What program you are "trying"
to work?

Arguably, any 12 question worksheet pertaining to a two part step is
merely another ruse used by drug and alcohol counsellors to justify
their unproductive existence.

Have you sincerely tried moderation?
http://www.moderation.org/whatisMM.shtml

Bob

rosie read n' post

08-11-2005, 09:44 AM

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote in
message
> Arguably, any 12 question worksheet pertaining to a two part step is
> merely another ruse used by drug and alcohol counsellors to justify
> their unproductive existence.
>
> Have you sincerely tried moderation?
> http://www.moderation.org/whatisMM.shtml
>
> Bob

these days, i find that i am in the minority around the AA tables who
DIDN'T go to treatment to sober up.
in my early recovery i learned a lot from those* who did.

rosie

*those= folks who went through either in-patient or out-patient
treatment. being taught recovery by those DAMN%^^&*((*^$%$ COUNSELORS!
;)

MM certainly explains your behavior robert.
have you tried quitting drinking all together?

Gail

08-11-2005, 10:19 AM

Robert McGregor wrote:
> "Griffin McKorn" <JPP@Zoso.org> wrote in message
> news:11tif1t796ln0ed5ovet36ocmdtfq6ief1@4ax.com
>> I'm really struggling with this step, I hope the other eleven are
>> easier. Powerlessness. I have recently joined an out patient
>> recovery program and was given a twelve question worksheet that
>> pertains to step one. I've been reading and rereading this
>> questioner and it's really hard for me to answer, maybe denial is
>> playing a roll in my inability to complete this worksheet but I
>> get the feeling that my consoler is questioning my commitment to
>> sobriety. I' am really trying to work the program but the
>> soul-searching is brutal.
>>
>> Had to get that off my chest.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> The AA step one is two parts, not 12. What program you are "trying"
> to work?
>
> Arguably, any 12 question worksheet pertaining to a two part step is
> merely another ruse used by drug and alcohol counsellors to justify
> their unproductive existence.
>
> Have you sincerely tried moderation?
> http://www.moderation.org/whatisMM.shtml
>
> Bob

Appears to me that AA is also using 12 questions in a two part step to
merely justify thier unproductive existence, too. I would probably bet a
small amount that his 12 questions are about the same, if not the same, as
those found on this site...LOL

http://tinyurl.com/2lsct

Gail

Gail

08-11-2005, 10:40 AM

rosie read n' post

08-11-2005, 10:53 AM

"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:J5JKe.5531$0E5.5156@fe05.lga...
>
> ..................Appears to me that AA is also using 12 questions in
a two part step to
> merely justify thier unproductive existence, too.....................

gail?
have you stopped using AA as a tool of sobriety?

Ken Ragge

08-11-2005, 12:04 PM

Griffin McKorn wrote:
> I'm really struggling with this step, I hope the other eleven are
> easier. Powerlessness. I have recently joined an out patient recovery
> program and was given a twelve question worksheet that pertains to
> step one. I've been reading and rereading this questioner and it's
> really hard for me to answer, maybe denial is playing a roll in my
> inability to complete this worksheet but I get the feeling that my
> consoler is questioning my commitment to sobriety. I' am really trying
> to work the program but the soul-searching is brutal.
>
> Had to get that off my chest.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Take Care,
> Griffin.

Griffin,

If the first Step's purpose is to help you stop drinking, it would be
rather odd for it to be to admit you can't, wouldn't it?

A big part of the first Step in "treatment" (actually indoctrination
into the Step religion) is getting you to tear yourself apart in your
own mind and really believe that, rather than having difficulties which
God gave you the ability to overcome, simply can't "manage" your own
life because alcohol, as inanimate as a rock in terms of doing things,
has control over you.

If you feel you need help in learning how to control your own behavior,
there are a number of sources ranging from Rational Recovery, to SMART
(cognitive behavioral), SOS (AA without God) and Moderation Magagement
which as it names suggests works on moderation but they also have an
abstinence support email list. All of the above can be found on the net.

They are all different but they are all the same in that none of them
will "suggest" that if you leave you will die or even suggest that they
are the only way. Nor do any of them tell you how to fit yourself into
"God's Plan."

Many therapists in "addiction recovery" are what Step group members call
"two hatters" and will, while building trust with a client, actually be
working to sabotague efforts to Stop without adopting the Step religion.

Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com

Gail

08-11-2005, 12:15 PM

rosie read n' post wrote:
> "Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:J5JKe.5531$0E5.5156@fe05.lga...
>>
>> ..................Appears to me that AA is also using 12 questions
>> in a two part step to merely justify thier unproductive existence,
>> too.....................
>
>
> gail?
> have you stopped using AA as a tool of sobriety?

No, I use any and all tools I can for my sobriety, counselors or the program
of AA included. I am not one tracked and proud of it! The way I see it is
that if a counselor or another treatment program can be accused of merely
justifying thier unproductive existence, then some AA people should also be
included in that assumption. No one treatment program or its members or
employee's should be singled out as unproductive. There are lots of people
who find their way to AA, church or whatever path they finally choose for
thier sobriety through and with the help of counselors and treatment
programs. AA people are not excluded from having any of the flaws that a
treatment program counselor may have.

Best,
Gail

DaveB

08-11-2005, 12:29 PM

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:10:25 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
<robert_mcgregor@knickers.yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>"Griffin McKorn" <JPP@Zoso.org> wrote in message
>news:11tif1t796ln0ed5ovet36ocmdtfq6ief1@4ax.com
>> I'm really struggling with this step, I hope the other eleven are
>> easier. Powerlessness. I have recently joined an out patient
>> recovery program and was given a twelve question worksheet that
>> pertains to step one. I've been reading and rereading this
>> questioner and it's really hard for me to answer, maybe denial is
>> playing a roll in my inability to complete this worksheet but I
>> get the feeling that my consoler is questioning my commitment to
>> sobriety. I' am really trying to work the program but the
>> soul-searching is brutal.
>>
>> Had to get that off my chest.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
>The AA step one is two parts, not 12. What program you are "trying"
>to work?
>
>Arguably, any 12 question worksheet pertaining to a two part step is
>merely another ruse used by drug and alcohol counsellors to justify
>their unproductive existence.
>
>Have you sincerely tried moderation?
>http://www.moderation.org/whatisMM.shtml
>
>Bob

>Arguably, any 12 question worksheet pertaining to a two part step is
>>merely another ruse used by drug and alcohol counsellors to justify
>>their unproductive existence.

I'm interested in hearing why counsellors are unproductive.
I found them very helpful during my 4 month residential treatment at
Impact House courtesy of the federal goverment.

I have this feeling you are clueless.

Regards

Regards
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Daveb

Gail

08-11-2005, 01:19 PM

someone in need

08-11-2005, 02:40 PM

Hi Bobby,

It took a lot courage to admit delusional. Congrats on that and your
recovery. May I ask a question?

My wife became alcoholic a few months ago. When asked if she drinks I
see hesitation in her eyes/face and she denies it. Is this
"hesitation" a good thing? as if she were delusional there would be
none?

Thanx

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:34:03 -0400, "Bobby L"
<bobbyl2000@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
>"Griffin McKorn" <JPP@Zoso.org> wrote in message
>news:11tif1t796ln0ed5ovet36ocmdtfq6ief1@4ax.com...
>> I'm really struggling with this step, I hope the other eleven are
>> easier. Powerlessness. I have recently joined an out patient recovery
>> program and was given a twelve question worksheet that pertains to
>> step one. I've been reading and rereading this questioner and it's
>> really hard for me to answer, maybe denial is playing a roll in my
>> inability to complete this worksheet but I get the feeling that my
>> consoler is questioning my commitment to sobriety. I' am really trying
>> to work the program but the soul-searching is brutal.
>>
>> Had to get that off my chest.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Take Care,
>> Griffin.
>
>Griffin,
>
>If you're in denial then you are perhaps already making progress. Most of
>us had to work up to denial from delusional.
>
>Apparently step 1 is as difficult as we want to make it. Admitting you suck
>as a drinker is a tough row to hoe.
>Do you think you can or will ever be able to drink like normal people drink?
>If you do, then you are simply not one of us and there's probably little for
>you here -- for now.
>If you have everything under control, then you are definitely not one of us.
>We didn't get here because we spilled a couple of beers at a party.
>Also, we're not a recruiting depot. Most of us completed step one before we
>got here. Perhaps you might look at the short version of the first three
>steps.
>1. We Can't.
>2. He Can.
>3. We will try and let him.
>Keep it simple.
>
>Bobby L
>
>
>
>

someone in need

08-11-2005, 02:44 PM

Some counselors have dealt with addiction personally either in their
family of themselves and have true insight. They also have rent to
pay.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:26:57 -0400, rockhound <user@null.org> wrote:

>On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:41:24 -0700, Griffin McKorn <JPP@Zoso.org>
>wrote:
>
>> I'm really struggling with this step, I hope the other eleven are
>>easier. Powerlessness. I have recently joined an out patient recovery
>>program and was given a twelve question worksheet that pertains to
>>step one. I've been reading and rereading this questioner and it's
>>really hard for me to answer, maybe denial is playing a roll in my
>>inability to complete this worksheet but I get the feeling that my
>>consoler is questioning my commitment to sobriety. I' am really trying
>>to work the program but the soul-searching is brutal.
>>
>> Had to get that off my chest.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>> Take Care,
>> Griffin.
>
>
>
>Counselors work for money and promotion and whatever else is up their
>alley, and in that regard they'll tell you whatever benefits them for
>the most part. You may wind up in trouble if you are leaning on them
>for anything at all.
>
>Alcoholics Anonymous has an awesome test, foolproof, very little
>mindfuck involved - (although if you've somehow placed yourself under
>the care and direction of counselors, they likely won't allow this),
>but here it is verbatim anyway:
>
>We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can
>quickly diagnose yourself, step over to the nearest barroom and try
>some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more
>than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest
>with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you
>get a full knowledge of your condition.
>
>lots more info here: http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_31.htm

rockhound

08-11-2005, 03:15 PM

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:29:00 GMT, DaveB wrote:

>
>I'm interested in hearing why counsellors are unproductive.
>I found them very helpful during my 4 month residential treatment at
>Impact House courtesy of the federal goverment.
>
>I have this feeling you are clueless.
>
>Regards
>
>Daveb

Go pay the bill yourself and maybe then we'll talk...

Gail

08-11-2005, 03:30 PM

rockhound wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:29:00 GMT, DaveB wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm interested in hearing why counsellors are unproductive.
>> I found them very helpful during my 4 month residential treatment at
>> Impact House courtesy of the federal goverment.
>>
>> I have this feeling you are clueless.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Daveb
>
> Go pay the bill yourself and maybe then we'll talk...

That is so funny! Alcoholic's and addicts will go to any length to get their
drug. They will lie, cheat, steal and even sell their own bodies for a drug.
I never hear them complaining about that. Offer them some hope of recovery,
a way out of that distruction to themself, and a possible fee for it they go
all to hell! Ain't it weird! They didn't get their alcohol or drug for free,
now did they, and have and are probably spending a hell of a lot more on
their addictions than they will on treatment.
All the best,
Gail

stuart

08-11-2005, 05:19 PM

"Ken Ragge" <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:gcadnd5NS7W56mbfRVn-tg@comcast.com...
> Griffin McKorn wrote:
>> I'm really struggling with this step, I hope the other eleven are
>> easier. Powerlessness. I have recently joined an out patient recovery
>> program and was given a twelve question worksheet that pertains to
>> step one. I've been reading and rereading this questioner and it's
>> really hard for me to answer, maybe denial is playing a roll in my
>> inability to complete this worksheet but I get the feeling that my
>> consoler is questioning my commitment to sobriety. I' am really trying
>> to work the program but the soul-searching is brutal. Had to get that off
>> my chest. Thanks. Take Care, Griffin.
>
> Griffin,
>
> If the first Step's purpose is to help you stop drinking, it would be
> rather odd for it to be to admit you can't, wouldn't it?
>
> A big part of the first Step in "treatment" (actually indoctrination into
> the Step religion) is getting you to tear yourself apart in your own mind
> and really believe that, rather than having difficulties which God gave
> you the ability to overcome, simply can't "manage" your own life because
> alcohol, as inanimate as a rock in terms of doing things, has control over
> you.
>
> If you feel you need help in learning how to control your own behavior,
> there are a number of sources ranging from Rational Recovery, to SMART
> (cognitive behavioral), SOS (AA without God) and Moderation Magagement
> which as it names suggests works on moderation but they also have an
> abstinence support email list. All of the above can be found on the net.
>
> They are all different but they are all the same in that none of them will
> "suggest" that if you leave you will die or even suggest that they are the
> only way. Nor do any of them tell you how to fit yourself into "God's
> Plan."
>
> Many therapists in "addiction recovery" are what Step group members call
> "two hatters" and will, while building trust with a client, actually be
> working to sabotague efforts to Stop without adopting the Step religion.
>
> Ken Ragge
> http://www.morerevealed.com

There are indeed alternatives to AA Griffon, and worth looking into. I would
be a bit suspicious of anyone who knocks na belittles the other approaches
however.

DaveB

08-11-2005, 06:01 PM

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:15:32 -0400, rockhound <user@null.org> wrote:

>On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:29:00 GMT, DaveB wrote:
>
>>
>>I'm interested in hearing why counsellors are unproductive.
>>I found them very helpful during my 4 month residential treatment at
>>Impact House courtesy of the federal goverment.
>>
>>I have this feeling you are clueless.
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Daveb
>
>Go pay the bill yourself and maybe then we'll talk...

Listen, I really had no choice as I had just been released from
federal custody and terms of my release required the 4-6 month in
house program as well as 2 years of drug testing and a parole officer
from "Hell"

The thing that happened during my stay was enough counseling from
people that came from where I came from, to get the idea into my head
there may be a better way.

There are easier ways to get clean without prison and programs but
sometimes thats what it takes.

I was convinced after 25 years of being an addict I would probably die
an addict and was Ok with that although my life was hell to say the
least.

I'm 57 years old now and coming up on 8 years clean, my life has never
been better. I know that between God, counslers, judges, jails,
recovery homes and me being willing for once my life changed.

Some people will never get it no matter how much money and how smart
they may think they are.

Prisons and Skid Row are full of know it alls .........just ask em.

"Keep it Simple"

Daveb

DaveB

08-11-2005, 06:12 PM

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:30:06 -0500, "Gail"
<serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

>rockhound wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:29:00 GMT, DaveB wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm interested in hearing why counsellors are unproductive.
>>> I found them very helpful during my 4 month residential treatment at
>>> Impact House courtesy of the federal goverment.
>>>
>>> I have this feeling you are clueless.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Daveb
>>
>> Go pay the bill yourself and maybe then we'll talk...
>
>That is so funny! Alcoholic's and addicts will go to any length to get their
>drug. They will lie, cheat, steal and even sell their own bodies for a drug.
>I never hear them complaining about that. Offer them some hope of recovery,
>a way out of that distruction to themself, and a possible fee for it they go
>all to hell! Ain't it weird! They didn't get their alcohol or drug for free,
>now did they, and have and are probably spending a hell of a lot more on
>their addictions than they will on treatment.
>All the best,
>Gail
>

How you be Gail? good to see ya around

Regards
>

Daveb

Gail

08-11-2005, 06:56 PM

DaveB wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:30:06 -0500, "Gail"
> <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> rockhound wrote:
>>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:29:00 GMT, DaveB wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm interested in hearing why counsellors are unproductive.
>>>> I found them very helpful during my 4 month residential treatment
>>>> at Impact House courtesy of the federal goverment.
>>>>
>>>> I have this feeling you are clueless.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Daveb
>>>
>>> Go pay the bill yourself and maybe then we'll talk...
>>
>> That is so funny! Alcoholic's and addicts will go to any length to
>> get their drug. They will lie, cheat, steal and even sell their own
>> bodies for a drug. I never hear them complaining about that. Offer
>> them some hope of recovery, a way out of that distruction to
>> themself, and a possible fee for it they go all to hell! Ain't it
>> weird! They didn't get their alcohol or drug for free, now did they,
>> and have and are probably spending a hell of a lot more on their
>> addictions than they will on treatment.
>> All the best,
>> Gail
>>
>
> How you be Gail? good to see ya around
>
> Regards
>>
>
> Daveb

LOL! I was going to shout out, "HEY DAVE, How's it hangin" when I seen you
post earlier. I held back. ;) I am good. Got tendonittis again in my elbow.
Called the doc on the first of this month to make an appt. for a shot and it
will be the end of the month before I can get in. That sux! I think I am
getting it from walking my dog. Gotta train him to use the potty now..;( He
finished obedience school so I made me a bumper sticker and put his picture
with his graduation cap on it and beside it I put: My child is an honor
student, and stuck it on the back of my car. Going to make me another one
and put: ALL children are honor students while attending school. I just hate
those stickers that say, MY CHILD is an honor student at so and so
school....;) Hey, I gotta live up to my reputation here. Am I doing good so
far???
Hope you are doing good.
Take care,
Gail

DaveB

08-11-2005, 07:04 PM

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:56:30 -0500, "Gail"
<serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

>DaveB wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:30:06 -0500, "Gail"
>> <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> rockhound wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:29:00 GMT, DaveB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm interested in hearing why counsellors are unproductive.
>>>>> I found them very helpful during my 4 month residential treatment
>>>>> at Impact House courtesy of the federal goverment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have this feeling you are clueless.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Daveb
>>>>
>>>> Go pay the bill yourself and maybe then we'll talk...
>>>
>>> That is so funny! Alcoholic's and addicts will go to any length to
>>> get their drug. They will lie, cheat, steal and even sell their own
>>> bodies for a drug. I never hear them complaining about that. Offer
>>> them some hope of recovery, a way out of that distruction to
>>> themself, and a possible fee for it they go all to hell! Ain't it
>>> weird! They didn't get their alcohol or drug for free, now did they,
>>> and have and are probably spending a hell of a lot more on their
>>> addictions than they will on treatment.
>>> All the best,
>>> Gail
>>>
>>
>> How you be Gail? good to see ya around
>>
>> Regards
>>>
>>
>> Daveb
>
>LOL! I was going to shout out, "HEY DAVE, How's it hangin" when I seen you
>post earlier. I held back. ;) I am good. Got tendonittis again in my elbow.
>Called the doc on the first of this month to make an appt. for a shot and it
>will be the end of the month before I can get in. That sux! I think I am
>getting it from walking my dog. Gotta train him to use the potty now..;( He
>finished obedience school so I made me a bumper sticker and put his picture
>with his graduation cap on it and beside it I put: My child is an honor
>student, and stuck it on the back of my car. Going to make me another one
>and put: ALL children are honor students while attending school. I just hate
>those stickers that say, MY CHILD is an honor student at so and so
>school....;) Hey, I gotta live up to my reputation here. Am I doing good so
>far???
>Hope you are doing good.
>Take care,
>Gail

LOL, yeah your doing perfect, my mom had a bumper sticker that said my
kids a dropout <wink>.

Obedience school is great might save your elbow, I had to put my
collie down last month (15 yo) so am looking for another dog.

Lol@graduation cap on the dog.....glad your having some fun.

Best
>
>

Daveb

Gail

08-11-2005, 07:55 PM

DaveB wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:56:30 -0500, "Gail"
> <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> DaveB wrote:
>>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:30:06 -0500, "Gail"
>>> <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> rockhound wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:29:00 GMT, DaveB wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm interested in hearing why counsellors are unproductive.
>>>>>> I found them very helpful during my 4 month residential treatment
>>>>>> at Impact House courtesy of the federal goverment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have this feeling you are clueless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daveb
>>>>>
>>>>> Go pay the bill yourself and maybe then we'll talk...
>>>>
>>>> That is so funny! Alcoholic's and addicts will go to any length to
>>>> get their drug. They will lie, cheat, steal and even sell their own
>>>> bodies for a drug. I never hear them complaining about that. Offer
>>>> them some hope of recovery, a way out of that distruction to
>>>> themself, and a possible fee for it they go all to hell! Ain't it
>>>> weird! They didn't get their alcohol or drug for free, now did
>>>> they, and have and are probably spending a hell of a lot more on
>>>> their addictions than they will on treatment.
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Gail
>>>>
>>>
>>> How you be Gail? good to see ya around
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>
>>> Daveb
>>
>> LOL! I was going to shout out, "HEY DAVE, How's it hangin" when I
>> seen you post earlier. I held back. ;) I am good. Got tendonittis
>> again in my elbow. Called the doc on the first of this month to make
>> an appt. for a shot and it will be the end of the month before I can
>> get in. That sux! I think I am getting it from walking my dog. Gotta
>> train him to use the potty now..;( He finished obedience school so I
>> made me a bumper sticker and put his picture with his graduation cap
>> on it and beside it I put: My child is an honor student, and stuck
>> it on the back of my car. Going to make me another one and put: ALL
>> children are honor students while attending school. I just hate
>> those stickers that say, MY CHILD is an honor student at so and so
>> school....;) Hey, I gotta live up to my reputation here. Am I doing
>> good so far???
>> Hope you are doing good.
>> Take care,
>> Gail
>
> LOL, yeah your doing perfect, my mom had a bumper sticker that said my
> kids a dropout <wink>.

Uh oh, you just gave me another idea.:)
>
> Obedience school is great might save your elbow, I had to put my
> collie down last month (15 yo) so am looking for another dog.

I am sorry. That couldn't have been easy for you. Hope you find another to
train you again...;)

>
> Lol@graduation cap on the dog.....glad your having some fun.
>
> Best
>>
>>
>

Here is a pic, Dave. I hope this works. http://tinyurl.com/7nku2 or this
http://img274.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p10100250bm.jpg

> Daveb

Take care,
Gail

stuart

08-12-2005, 08:44 AM

Gail <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0HQKe.5658$0E5.2493@fe05.lga...
> DaveB wrote:
> > On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:30:06 -0500, "Gail"
> > <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> rockhound wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:29:00 GMT, DaveB wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm interested in hearing why counsellors are unproductive.
> >>>> I found them very helpful during my 4 month residential treatment
> >>>> at Impact House courtesy of the federal goverment.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have this feeling you are clueless.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>>
> >>>> Daveb
> >>>
> >>> Go pay the bill yourself and maybe then we'll talk...
> >>
> >> That is so funny! Alcoholic's and addicts will go to any length to
> >> get their drug. They will lie, cheat, steal and even sell their own
> >> bodies for a drug. I never hear them complaining about that. Offer
> >> them some hope of recovery, a way out of that distruction to
> >> themself, and a possible fee for it they go all to hell! Ain't it
> >> weird! They didn't get their alcohol or drug for free, now did they,
> >> and have and are probably spending a hell of a lot more on their
> >> addictions than they will on treatment.
> >> All the best,
> >> Gail
> >>
> >
> > How you be Gail? good to see ya around
> >
> > Regards
> >>
> >
> > Daveb
>
> LOL! I was going to shout out, "HEY DAVE, How's it hangin" when I seen you
> post earlier. I held back. ;) I am good. Got tendonittis again in my
elbow.
> Called the doc on the first of this month to make an appt. for a shot and
it
> will be the end of the month before I can get in. That sux! I think I am
> getting it from walking my dog. Gotta train him to use the potty now..;(
He
> finished obedience school so I made me a bumper sticker and put his
picture
> with his graduation cap on it and beside it I put: My child is an honor
> student, and stuck it on the back of my car. Going to make me another one
> and put: ALL children are honor students while attending school. I just
hate
> those stickers that say, MY CHILD is an honor student at so and so
> school....;) Hey, I gotta live up to my reputation here. Am I doing good
so
> far???
> Hope you are doing good.
> Take care,
> Gail

Have you tried 'active release technique' for your elbow? It's called ART
for short. Works way better than any depo-medrol shot.

rosie read n' post

08-12-2005, 09:18 AM

"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:COKKe.6$rc6.3@fe03.lga...
>...........................There are lots of people
> who find their way to AA, church or whatever path they finally choose
for
> thier sobriety through and with the help of counselors and treatment
> programs.

amen, amen!
like i say:
WHATEVER WORKS!

Gail

08-12-2005, 10:16 AM

stuart wrote:
> Gail <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:0HQKe.5658$0E5.2493@fe05.lga...
>> DaveB wrote:
>>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:30:06 -0500, "Gail"
>>> <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> rockhound wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:29:00 GMT, DaveB wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm interested in hearing why counsellors are unproductive.
>>>>>> I found them very helpful during my 4 month residential treatment
>>>>>> at Impact House courtesy of the federal goverment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have this feeling you are clueless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daveb
>>>>>
>>>>> Go pay the bill yourself and maybe then we'll talk...
>>>>
>>>> That is so funny! Alcoholic's and addicts will go to any length to
>>>> get their drug. They will lie, cheat, steal and even sell their own
>>>> bodies for a drug. I never hear them complaining about that. Offer
>>>> them some hope of recovery, a way out of that distruction to
>>>> themself, and a possible fee for it they go all to hell! Ain't it
>>>> weird! They didn't get their alcohol or drug for free, now did
>>>> they, and have and are probably spending a hell of a lot more on
>>>> their addictions than they will on treatment.
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Gail
>>>>
>>>
>>> How you be Gail? good to see ya around
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>
>>> Daveb
>>
>> LOL! I was going to shout out, "HEY DAVE, How's it hangin" when I
>> seen you post earlier. I held back. ;) I am good. Got tendonittis
>> again in my elbow. Called the doc on the first of this month to make
>> an appt. for a shot and it will be the end of the month before I can
>> get in. That sux! I think I am getting it from walking my dog. Gotta
>> train him to use the potty now..;( He finished obedience school so I
>> made me a bumper sticker and put his picture with his graduation cap
>> on it and beside it I put: My child is an honor student, and stuck
>> it on the back of my car. Going to make me another one and put: ALL
>> children are honor students while attending school. I just hate
>> those stickers that say, MY CHILD is an honor student at so and so
>> school....;) Hey, I gotta live up to my reputation here. Am I doing
>> good so far???
>> Hope you are doing good.
>> Take care,
>> Gail
>
> Have you tried 'active release technique' for your elbow? It's called
> ART for short. Works way better than any depo-medrol shot.

Hi Stuart. No, I had never heard of it before now. I looked on the intenet
and chiropractors perform it. I will ask around about it. Thanks.
Gail

Gail

08-12-2005, 12:14 PM

DaveB wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:15:32 -0400, rockhound <user@null.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:29:00 GMT, DaveB wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm interested in hearing why counsellors are unproductive.
>>> I found them very helpful during my 4 month residential treatment at
>>> Impact House courtesy of the federal goverment.
>>>
>>> I have this feeling you are clueless.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Daveb
>>
>> Go pay the bill yourself and maybe then we'll talk...
>
>
> Listen, I really had no choice as I had just been released from
> federal custody and terms of my release required the 4-6 month in
> house program as well as 2 years of drug testing and a parole officer
> from "Hell"
>
> The thing that happened during my stay was enough counseling from
> people that came from where I came from, to get the idea into my head
> there may be a better way.
>
> There are easier ways to get clean without prison and programs but
> sometimes thats what it takes.
>
> I was convinced after 25 years of being an addict I would probably die
> an addict and was Ok with that although my life was hell to say the
> least.
>
> I'm 57 years old now and coming up on 8 years clean, my life has never
> been better. I know that between God, counslers, judges, jails,
> recovery homes and me being willing for once my life changed.
>
> Some people will never get it no matter how much money and how smart
> they may think they are.
>
> Prisons and Skid Row are full of know it alls .........just ask em.
>
> "Keep it Simple"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Daveb

It is a pleasure to know you through this group, Dave. I mean that. AA needs
more people like you. You are a real assett to this group for sure!
Take care,
Gail

rosie read n' post

08-12-2005, 12:31 PM

"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:EKLKe.37$F_7.27@fe06.lga...
>
> Does this question mean that I have to conform to Robert or your
beliefs in
> order to be in recovery?

holy shit, NO!
do what works for you!
i'm glad your doing well gail..................

rosie read n' post

08-12-2005, 12:52 PM

<DaveB> wrote in message news:42fbc681.20058310@news.dslextreme.com...

> Listen, I really had no choice as I had just been released from
> federal custody and terms of my release required the 4-6 month in
> house program as well as 2 years of drug testing and a parole officer
> from "Hell"
>
> The thing that happened during my stay was enough counseling from
> people that came from where I came from, to get the idea into my head
> there may be a better way.
>
> There are easier ways to get clean without prison and programs but
> sometimes thats what it takes.
>
> I was convinced after 25 years of being an addict I would probably die
> an addict and was Ok with that although my life was hell to say the
> least.
>
> I'm 57 years old now and coming up on 8 years clean, my life has never
> been better. I know that between God, counslers, judges, jails,
> recovery homes and me being willing for once my life changed.
>
> Some people will never get it no matter how much money and how smart
> they may think they are.
>
> Prisons and Skid Row are full of know it alls .........just ask em.
>
> "Keep it Simple"

no need to explain who paid for your
treatment............................
your sober, you appreciate the changes it has made in your life and you
are willing to share your ESH!
thanks for being here dave!

rosie

DaveB

08-12-2005, 02:19 PM

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:55:07 -0500, "Gail"
<serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

>DaveB wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:56:30 -0500, "Gail"
>> <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> DaveB wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:30:06 -0500, "Gail"
>>>> <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> rockhound wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:29:00 GMT, DaveB wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm interested in hearing why counsellors are unproductive.
>>>>>>> I found them very helpful during my 4 month residential treatment
>>>>>>> at Impact House courtesy of the federal goverment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have this feeling you are clueless.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daveb
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go pay the bill yourself and maybe then we'll talk...
>>>>>
>>>>> That is so funny! Alcoholic's and addicts will go to any length to
>>>>> get their drug. They will lie, cheat, steal and even sell their own
>>>>> bodies for a drug. I never hear them complaining about that. Offer
>>>>> them some hope of recovery, a way out of that distruction to
>>>>> themself, and a possible fee for it they go all to hell! Ain't it
>>>>> weird! They didn't get their alcohol or drug for free, now did
>>>>> they, and have and are probably spending a hell of a lot more on
>>>>> their addictions than they will on treatment.
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>> Gail
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How you be Gail? good to see ya around
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Daveb
>>>
>>> LOL! I was going to shout out, "HEY DAVE, How's it hangin" when I
>>> seen you post earlier. I held back. ;) I am good. Got tendonittis
>>> again in my elbow. Called the doc on the first of this month to make
>>> an appt. for a shot and it will be the end of the month before I can
>>> get in. That sux! I think I am getting it from walking my dog. Gotta
>>> train him to use the potty now..;( He finished obedience school so I
>>> made me a bumper sticker and put his picture with his graduation cap
>>> on it and beside it I put: My child is an honor student, and stuck
>>> it on the back of my car. Going to make me another one and put: ALL
>>> children are honor students while attending school. I just hate
>>> those stickers that say, MY CHILD is an honor student at so and so
>>> school....;) Hey, I gotta live up to my reputation here. Am I doing
>>> good so far???
>>> Hope you are doing good.
>>> Take care,
>>> Gail
>>
>> LOL, yeah your doing perfect, my mom had a bumper sticker that said my
>> kids a dropout <wink>.
>
>Uh oh, you just gave me another idea.:)
>>
>> Obedience school is great might save your elbow, I had to put my
>> collie down last month (15 yo) so am looking for another dog.
>
>I am sorry. That couldn't have been easy for you. Hope you find another to
>train you again...;)
>
>>
>> Lol@graduation cap on the dog.....glad your having some fun.
>>
>> Best
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>Here is a pic, Dave. I hope this works. http://tinyurl.com/7nku2 or this
>http://img274.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p10100250bm.jpg
>
>
>> Daveb
>
>Take care,
>Gail
>

LOL.....that picture is way to cool......love it
Thanks for the kind words...btw

Regards
>

Daveb

DaveB

08-12-2005, 02:22 PM

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:52:30 GMT, "rosie read n' post"
<readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
><DaveB> wrote in message news:42fbc681.20058310@news.dslextreme.com...
>
>> Listen, I really had no choice as I had just been released from
>> federal custody and terms of my release required the 4-6 month in
>> house program as well as 2 years of drug testing and a parole officer
>> from "Hell"
>>
>> The thing that happened during my stay was enough counseling from
>> people that came from where I came from, to get the idea into my head
>> there may be a better way.
>>
>> There are easier ways to get clean without prison and programs but
>> sometimes thats what it takes.
>>
>> I was convinced after 25 years of being an addict I would probably die
>> an addict and was Ok with that although my life was hell to say the
>> least.
>>
>> I'm 57 years old now and coming up on 8 years clean, my life has never
>> been better. I know that between God, counslers, judges, jails,
>> recovery homes and me being willing for once my life changed.
>>
>> Some people will never get it no matter how much money and how smart
>> they may think they are.
>>
>> Prisons and Skid Row are full of know it alls .........just ask em.
>>
>> "Keep it Simple"
>
>
>no need to explain who paid for your
>treatment............................
>your sober, you appreciate the changes it has made in your life and you
>are willing to share your ESH!
>thanks for being here dave!
>
>rosie

Thanks Rosie, my biggest problem in my life today was (my hook)
lol........just finished a round of golf and am going back after I
have lunch for another 18 holes.......

Sure beats where I came from!!

Best
>
>

Daveb

Bobby L

08-12-2005, 06:12 PM

I cannot tell you if the hesitation is a good thing or not. After all, I'm
talking to you - not your wife. Your situation might be better discussed
with someone in Alanon.

Bobby L

"someone in need" <nospamplease@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:6o6nf1dd2fn8df84kicr4cp7ojrbpejt6l@4ax.com...
> Hi Bobby,
>
> It took a lot courage to admit delusional. Congrats on that and your
> recovery. May I ask a question?
>
> My wife became alcoholic a few months ago. When asked if she drinks I
> see hesitation in her eyes/face and she denies it. Is this
> "hesitation" a good thing? as if she were delusional there would be
> none?
>
> Thanx
>
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:34:03 -0400, "Bobby L"
> <bobbyl2000@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Griffin McKorn" <JPP@Zoso.org> wrote in message
> >news:11tif1t796ln0ed5ovet36ocmdtfq6ief1@4ax.com...
> >> I'm really struggling with this step, I hope the other eleven are
> >> easier. Powerlessness. I have recently joined an out patient recovery
> >> program and was given a twelve question worksheet that pertains to
> >> step one. I've been reading and rereading this questioner and it's
> >> really hard for me to answer, maybe denial is playing a roll in my
> >> inability to complete this worksheet but I get the feeling that my
> >> consoler is questioning my commitment to sobriety. I' am really trying
> >> to work the program but the soul-searching is brutal.
> >>
> >> Had to get that off my chest.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Take Care,
> >> Griffin.
> >
> >Griffin,
> >
> >If you're in denial then you are perhaps already making progress. Most
of
> >us had to work up to denial from delusional.
> >
> >Apparently step 1 is as difficult as we want to make it. Admitting you
suck
> >as a drinker is a tough row to hoe.
> >Do you think you can or will ever be able to drink like normal people
drink?
> >If you do, then you are simply not one of us and there's probably little
for
> >you here -- for now.
> >If you have everything under control, then you are definitely not one of
us.
> >We didn't get here because we spilled a couple of beers at a party.
> >Also, we're not a recruiting depot. Most of us completed step one before
we
> >got here. Perhaps you might look at the short version of the first three
> >steps.
> >1. We Can't.
> >2. He Can.
> >3. We will try and let him.
> >Keep it simple.
> >
> >Bobby L
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Ken Ragge

08-13-2005, 08:09 PM

stuart wrote:
> "Ken Ragge" <ken@nospam.com> wrote:
>>Many therapists in "addiction recovery" are what Step group members call
>>"two hatters" and will, while building trust with a client, actually be
>>working to sabotague efforts to Stop without adopting the Step religion.
>>
>>Ken Ragge
>>http://www.morerevealed.com
>
>
> There are indeed alternatives to AA Griffon, and worth looking into. I would
> be a bit suspicious of anyone who knocks na belittles the other approaches
> however.
>

Griffon,

Be suspicious of people when they are praising a group too. One needs
both the positives and negatives to be able to make an intelligent decision.

If people had the negatives of Scientology and the Moonies rather than
just the positives from Scientologists and Moonies before becoming
subject to their thought-reform environment, there wouldn't be so many
of either.

Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com

Robert McGregor

08-13-2005, 11:50 PM

"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:COKKe.6$rc6.3@fe03.lga
> rosie read n' post wrote:
>> "Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:J5JKe.5531$0E5.5156@fe05.lga...
>>>
>>> ..................Appears to me that AA is also using 12
>>> questions in a two part step to merely justify thier
>>> unproductive existence, too.....................
>>
>>
>> gail?
>> have you stopped using AA as a tool of sobriety?
>
> No, I use any and all tools I can for my sobriety, counselors or
> the program of AA included. I am not one tracked and proud of it!
> The way I see it is that if a counselor or another treatment
> program can be accused of merely justifying thier unproductive
> existence, then some AA people should also be included in that
> assumption. No one treatment program or its members or employee's
> should be singled out as unproductive. There are lots of people
> who find their way to AA, church or whatever path they finally
> choose for thier sobriety through and with the help of counselors
> and treatment programs. AA people are not excluded from having any
> of the flaws that a treatment program counselor may have.

From what I've seen, and read, most treatment counsellors are/were
members of 12
step groups anyway.

Bob

rosie read n' post

08-14-2005, 07:05 PM

> From what I've seen, and read, most treatment counsellors are/were
> members of 12
> step groups anyway.
>
> Bob
>
>
>

most of the good ones!
;)

Robert McGregor

08-15-2005, 06:09 PM

"rosie read n' post" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%6QLe.7375$32.6922@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com
>> From what I've seen, and read, most treatment counsellors are/were
>> members of 12
>> step groups anyway.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>
> most of the good ones!
> ;)

There are good ones?

Like you were/are?

Bob

From: "readandpost" <readandpost...@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <HWNh7.155498$GN.21560362@typhoon.kc.rr.com>
>
>re-enforcing the knowledge that a DRUG IS A DRUG and that JUNKIE
>THINKING is universal where DRUGS are concerned!

From: "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
Message-ID: < wkHa.22568$fe.447991@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>
>YES, whatever works!
>i belong to the "old school" of counting sobriety from the LAST
>drink/drug,

From: "rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <l%Rl5.19132$E05.337271@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>
>
>actually, i would have to say that i have had GOOD long term
>experience with the treatment of my depression over the past 13yrs.
>i have however had to take several different meds as each once
>finally "wears out" and i need to change.

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
message news:A98Ka.109221$Xl.2092045@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com
>> i will never be recovered..............................
>
> From: "rosie readandpost" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com>
> Message-ID: <3DYia.12729$5j.93918@twister.kc.rr.com
>> i am a retired ER/ICCU nurse, went back to school and now work as
>> an addictions/disorder counselor.