"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:1124372080.64ccf77dc09a5c656082629973438203@t eranews...
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 01:41:24 GMT, "Darren" <Ohisay@idontdrink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
> >news:1124328217.540ffe208c927249391bd00c49e90c5d@t eranews...
> >> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:06:11 -0400, "Bobby L"
> >> <bobbyl2000@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Darren" <Ohisay@idontdrink.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:PovLe.6097$9b6.3465@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> >> >>
> >> >> "Bobby L" <bobbyl2000@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >> >> news:Z1nLe.8508$XL3.4294@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Darren" <Ohisay@idontdrink.net> wrote in message
> >> >> > news:vmlLe.5837$9b6.3360@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > "Bobby L" <bobbyl2000@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >> >> > > news:F5vKe.1000$XM3.501@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > "Darren" <Ohisay@idontdrink.net> wrote in message
> >> >> > > > news:FJ0Ke.598$4y6.496@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > "Bobby L" <bobbyl2000@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >> >> > > > > news:x1VJe.4143$7p.1423@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > "Darren" <Ohisay@idontdrink.net> wrote in message
> >> >> > > > > > news:dASJe.25457$Oe4.14531@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > "Bobby L" <bobbyl2000@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >> >> > > > > > > news:JlRJe.507$Kp.270@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > > "Darren" <Ohisay@idontdrink.net> wrote in message
> >> >> > > > > > > > news:kNGJe.3890$jv2.1817@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> >> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > > > "Poe" <Poe34@mail.com> wrote in message
> >> >> > > > > > > > > news:LIvJe.486$6d4.145520@news20.bellglobal.com...
> >> >> > > > > > > > > > We all for the most part go to work everyday to
> >> >provide
> >> >> > > > > ourselves
> >> >> > > > > > > with
> >> >> > > > > > > > > > sustenance, shelter and the things that we think
will
> >> >make
> >> >> > us
> >> >> > > > > happy.
> >> >> > > > > > A
> >> >> > > > > > > > > > nice car, bigger house, a cottage and then spend
> >every
> >> >> spare
> >> >> > > > > moment
> >> >> > > > > > > > > > numbing ourselves and distorting our sense of
reality
> >so
> >> >> > that
> >> >> > > we
> >> >> > > > > > can't
> >> >> > > > > > > > > > experience any of it.
> >> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > > > > Its funny how perception changes with sobriety,
if
> >> >only
> >> >> I
> >> >> > > > could
> >> >> > > > > > tell
> >> >> > > > > > > > > > the others, would they listen?
> >> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > > > > Poe
> >> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > > > When I sobered up I found the 'ciivilised' world was
> >still
> >> >> the
> >> >> > > > same
> >> >> > > > > > > scary
> >> >> > > > > > > > > place I drank to hide from. Someone said, "don't
change
> >> >the
> >> >> > > world,
> >> >> > > > > > > change
> >> >> > > > > > > > > with the world". Well I despise the civilised world
> >> >because
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > > > only
> >> >> > > > > > > > > difference between us and the ancestors that used to
> >bash
> >> >> each
> >> >> > > > other
> >> >> > > > > > > over
> >> >> > > > > > > > > the head to steal each others wifes, possesions etc
is
> >> >that
> >> >> > they
> >> >> > > > > used
> >> >> > > > > > > > clubs,
> >> >> > > > > > > > > we use pens, solcitors and bailiffs.
> >> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > > > Darren
> >> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > > So how's that fourth step coming along?
> >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > > Bobby L
> >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > Just finished it last week. Thanks for asking.
> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > Darren
> >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > Was any of this included in your fourth step?
> >> >> > > > > Yes, but an abbreviated version.
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > Darren
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > "Well I despise the civilised world because the only
> >difference
> >> >> > > between
> >> >> > > > us
> >> >> > > > > > and the ancestors that used to bash each other over the
head
> >to
> >> >> > steal
> >> >> > > > each
> >> >> > > > > > others wifes, possesions etc is that they used clubs, we
use
> >> >pens,
> >> >> > > > > solcitors
> >> >> > > > > > and bailiffs."
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > Bobby L
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Really.................Do you read the big book much Darren?
> >> >> > > I have it in audio format which i occasionally listen to and
parts
> >of
> >> >it
> >> >> > are
> >> >> > > read at almost every meeting so i pretty much hear a lot of it.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Darren
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Bobby L
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Did you hear that part about "half-measures availed us nothing?"
For
> >a
> >> >> > while, I thought half in would get me half out. Oddly enough, I
was
> >> >> > mistaken... half in got me nothing.
> >> >>
> >> >> Yes I heard that. Why? Do you think i should put the whole of that
> >passage
> >> >> in rahter than the abbreviated version?
> >> >>
> >> >> Darren
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Bobby L
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Darren,
> >> >
> >> >My recommendation/suggestion is you work step 4 as it outlined in the
Big
> >> >Book of Alcoholics Anonymous.
> >> >
> >> >Bobby L
> >>
> >> I advise to the contrary. Shocking things may be revealed. Oblivion
> >> not so bad after all.
> >
> >I thought the point of step 4 is to get the things off your chest that
> >really piss you off. its a good idea in my opinion because you can take
time
> >to do some quite in-depth soul searching. though with my step 5 I'm
sharing
> >bit by bit with a very close family member. :)
> >
> >Darren
> >
>
>
> About atonement, making peace with ourselves, our fellows, our
> creator, 'man know thyself' - we resentfully focus on the wrongs
> others have done in order to avoid looking at our own - to achieve
> sobriety the alcoholic must drop blame from speech and thought - we
> resolutely look for our own mistakes, where were we at fault... (see
> Bobby's post...)
Looking for where we were at fault isn't dropping the blame, it's directing
it at ourselves and blaoming myself for everything including what's the
fault of other people isn't going to help me one iota.
>
> Nothing counts but thoroughness and honesty.
My step 4 is certainly honest and thorough.
>
> Personally, my worst items in stock i'm still sharing only with ghosts
> and corpses - the 'no one must ever know' stuff. Praying for my pen
> and inner eye not to falter, strength and courage to go through with
> this process and there is no other motive than to save my sorry f'n
> ass.
Pardon?
>
> Family member? not on your life.
Yes, one who understands. one who knows me and knows most of these points
anyway.
>
>
> good luck,
> rockhound
Cheers
Darren
>
> --------
> Many of the above words should have been all caps.