seeking advice

[Rufus]

I'm in way over my head, and I need some help.

I manage 1 person at my office (we are a very small department). We have
become fairly good friends over the past six months and she sometimes jokes
that she's my little sister and I'm her big brother. She is 24 and I am
37. Our relationship is completely platonic, but fairly close. She has
told me many personal things about her and her life, but has never sought my
advice on anything. She socializes with my wife and I and some mutual
friends from work at least once a week.

I am worried that she may have a problem with alcohol. Here's some things I
have observed:

1. On occasion, I have picked her up at her apartment after work to
car-pool to an evening out with friends. Frequently, she has consumed a
glass of wine in the 30 minutes between the time she gets home and the time
I pick her up. This is solitary drinking - she lives alone. She then
drinks more, usually to the point of mild intoxication, as the night
progresses.

2. Sometimes when returning from social gatherings (say around 10:30 PM) at
which we have consumed alcohol, she calls other friends and goes out
drinking.

3. She lost her license for a year several years ago for DUI. She now has
a breathalyzer interlock installed in her vehicle. She will be allowed to
remove this in September. She was not stopped for driving erratically, but
because she forgot to turn on her headlights (something I have done on
occasion without having consumed any alcohol).

4. As part of her DUI conviction she was required to attend AA meetings.
She was told she has a problem but didn't believe them.

5. In the past six months she has missed work once because of a hangover,
and has shown up to work hung-over twice.

6. She missed work today because she had so much to drink last night that
her interlock device would not allow her to drive. A friend from out of
town is staying with her and they were up late drinking at her home (so she
says).

7. I have given her rides to work several times because on the previous
night she had to be driven home by friends because she could not start her
vehicle for the same reason above.

On the plus side, I have seen her just have one drink and return home. I
have also seen her attend social gatherings where she did not drink at all.

My question is does she have a problem or is she just a young girl getting a
little carried away? She is fresh out of college and all of her friends at
college drank heavily (as college kids often do).

My second question is, what should I do? Should I recommend that she seek
help? If so, where?

I think it likely she will refuse to attend AA. Should I offer to go with
her to meetings as a friend if by some chance I could convince her to go?

Should I just express my concern and suggest she drink less?

Any comments or help would be greatly appreciated.

Chris

[stuart]

Rufus <nospam@nospamme.com> wrote in message
news:B0XIe.2702$WQ.2557@trnddc03...
> I'm in way over my head, and I need some help.
>
> I manage 1 person at my office (we are a very small department). We have
> become fairly good friends over the past six months and she sometimes
jokes
> that she's my little sister and I'm her big brother. She is 24 and I am
> 37. Our relationship is completely platonic, but fairly close. She has
> told me many personal things about her and her life, but has never sought
my
> advice on anything. She socializes with my wife and I and some mutual
> friends from work at least once a week.
>
> I am worried that she may have a problem with alcohol. Here's some things
I
> have observed:
>
> 1. On occasion, I have picked her up at her apartment after work to
> car-pool to an evening out with friends. Frequently, she has consumed a
> glass of wine in the 30 minutes between the time she gets home and the
time
> I pick her up. This is solitary drinking - she lives alone. She then
> drinks more, usually to the point of mild intoxication, as the night
> progresses.
>
> 2. Sometimes when returning from social gatherings (say around 10:30 PM)
at
> which we have consumed alcohol, she calls other friends and goes out
> drinking.
>
> 3. She lost her license for a year several years ago for DUI. She now
has
> a breathalyzer interlock installed in her vehicle. She will be allowed to
> remove this in September. She was not stopped for driving erratically,
but
> because she forgot to turn on her headlights (something I have done on
> occasion without having consumed any alcohol).

Red flag bullshit detector up. Lemme get this straight, I am assuming she
told you she lost her license for a year "several years ago"? If that were
true there is NO WAY she would still be required to use an interlock today
in ANY jurisdiction, unless she was found guilty of impaired driving causing
bodily injury or death, or was a multiple offender.
Her DUI has been much much more recent than that if she still has it
installed, unless it is a voluntary install. Usually interlocks are
permitted prior to the prescribed driving ban (as in within the year of the
ban) in order to allow offenders to get to work)'
PS Court ordered AA attendance is also rare as a result of a first offence
also. Think about it, a court ordered attendance at an ALCOHOLICS Anonymous
meeting makes more sense in the case of a repeat offender. The couts
generally cede a first offence as a mistake. Two or more, then you have a
possible problem with alcohol.
But don't just take my word for it. Check with somone in the know in your
jursdiction to verify.
Alkies are great at minimalizing and rationalizing eh?



>
> 4. As part of her DUI conviction she was required to attend AA meetings.
> She was told she has a problem but didn't believe them.
>
> 5. In the past six months she has missed work once because of a hangover,
> and has shown up to work hung-over twice.
>
> 6. She missed work today because she had so much to drink last night that
> her interlock device would not allow her to drive. A friend from out of
> town is staying with her and they were up late drinking at her home (so
she
> says).

Hate to tell you, but that little gizmo records all the tests it performs as
"pass, retest, or fail". This data is downloaded, usually at monthly
intervals for the issuing authority's perusal. Legal repercussions may
follow "failed" tests, especially if the judge ordered her to attend AA
meetings AND prohibited her form consuming any alcohol for a specified
period of time


> 7. I have given her rides to work several times because on the previous
> night she had to be driven home by friends because she could not start her
> vehicle for the same reason above.

Not good

he plus side, I have seen her just have one drink and return home. I
> have also seen her attend social gatherings where she did not drink at
all.

Sure, I used to do that, get away early and really rip into her later,
somewhere else.

>
> My question is does she have a problem or is she just a young girl getting
a
> little carried away? She is fresh out of college and all of her friends
at
> college drank heavily (as college kids often do).
>
> My second question is, what should I do? Should I recommend that she seek
> help? If so, where?
>
> I think it likely she will refuse to attend AA. Should I offer to go with
> her to meetings as a friend if by some chance I could convince her to go?
>
> Should I just express my concern and suggest she drink less?
>
> Any comments or help would be greatly appreciated.


Not much you can do. Maybe Alanon might help you understand her problems
better, if you care enough to go.

>
> Chris
>
>

[Been There, Got a mug]

>From personal experiences,
confronting a person
who has an assumed drinking problem
will result with them denying it

Of course her roadmap leads one to
believe she is approaching the 1st step
of recognizing it: My life is unmanagable due to
alcohol abuse.

Until she reachs a point of "clarity" , you can only watch.

Whatever intentions to really have
for the girl will greatly confuse the
issue.

As her manager, you are placing
yourself in a position of control over her
in that you are confronting her with a
personal problem that she (will) deny
and place you in a very tricky position.

Are you her boss ?
Friend ?
Caretaker ?
Want-a lover ?

What is going to happen afterwards ?
Are you ready for it ?

No advice. Just thoughts

[Been There, Got a mug]

Red flag bullshit detector up !

AA attendance for a DWI is common more than not.

[stuart]

"Been There, Got a mug" <ratso_2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123345010.090043.121350@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> Red flag bullshit detector up !
>
> AA attendance for a DWI is common more than not.

For a first-time offence in the US? Our courts have more common sense in
Canada then, especially with a "low blow" and a first time offender.

By the sound of his info, this young lady is a typical in-denial
bullshitter. I wonder if he's not enabling her a bit by offering her rides
etc. Maybe he secretly has some desires for her and her "exciting"ay of
life. We just don't know. Your reply to him was really good.
I just can't see requiring an interlock "several years" after an offence
tho'.

[Been There, Got a mug]

I don'yt know if it's common sense or
not. What are your DWI kill rates for teenagers ? Ours
are getting out of hand. (where I live) ... Sending 25 weeks
going to a 1 hour meeting may be *due* punishiment at best ;-) .
Keeps them sober until at least 9:00 PM once a week.

You thoughts are well taken. Maybe
being a hero complex is in play.
I would lighten up a bit. Your kind of
tough on a newbie..

[Rufus]

"stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
news:ro6Je.161460$HI.111119@edtnps84...
>
> "Been There, Got a mug" <ratso_2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1123345010.090043.121350@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>> Red flag bullshit detector up !
>>
>> AA attendance for a DWI is common more than not.
>
> For a first-time offence in the US? Our courts have more common sense in
> Canada then, especially with a "low blow" and a first time offender.
>
> By the sound of his info, this young lady is a typical in-denial
> bullshitter. I wonder if he's not enabling her a bit by offering her rides
> etc.

Yes, I think I have been. And as I came to the realization the she has a
problem I informed her that I won't be doing that anymore.

>Maybe he secretly has some desires for her and her "exciting"ay of life.

Wow, I was just seeking input and I got accused of inappropriate desires.
Thanks. I really appreciate that.



>We just don't know. Your reply to him was really good.
> I just can't see requiring an interlock "several years" after an offence
> tho'.
>

[Rufus]

"Been There, Got a mug" <ratso_2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123344823.385094.129240@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
>>From personal experiences,
> confronting a person
> who has an assumed drinking problem
> will result with them denying it
>
> Of course her roadmap leads one to
> believe she is approaching the 1st step
> of recognizing it: My life is unmanagable due to
> alcohol abuse.
>
> Until she reachs a point of "clarity" , you can only watch.
>
> Whatever intentions to really have
> for the girl will greatly confuse the
> issue.
>
> As her manager, you are placing
> yourself in a position of control over her
> in that you are confronting her with a
> personal problem that she (will) deny
> and place you in a very tricky position.
>
> Are you her boss ?
> Friend ?
> Caretaker ?
> Want-a lover ?
>
> What is going to happen afterwards ?
> Are you ready for it ?
>
> No advice. Just thoughts

Your thoughts are appreciated. From what I have heard here, and read
elsewhere, it seems that confrontation, or even a friendly comment, will do
little for her. The best I can do as her manger/friend is to not enable
her. She won't be getting more rides due to being hungover or not being
able to srtart her vehicle. She has three remaining sick days, after which
a doctor's note is required. In the absence of a note, our policy is
termination at the manager's discretion, which is exactly what I will do. I
have plenty of friends, loosing one won't kill me. Thanks again for your
thoughts.

Chris

[stuart]

Rufus <nospam@nospamme.com> wrote in message
news:lryJe.5735$z%.4426@trnddc02...
>
> "stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
> news:ro6Je.161460$HI.111119@edtnps84...
> >
> > "Been There, Got a mug" <ratso_2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1123345010.090043.121350@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> >> Red flag bullshit detector up !
> >>
> >> AA attendance for a DWI is common more than not.
> >
> > For a first-time offence in the US? Our courts have more common sense
in
> > Canada then, especially with a "low blow" and a first time offender.
> >
> > By the sound of his info, this young lady is a typical in-denial
> > bullshitter. I wonder if he's not enabling her a bit by offering her
rides
> > etc.
>
> Yes, I think I have been. And as I came to the realization the she has a
> problem I informed her that I won't be doing that anymore.

I am a drunk, five years sober Rufus. Sometimes it takes a wake-up call of
some sort


>
> >Maybe he secretly has some desires for her and her "exciting"ay of life.
>
> Wow, I was just seeking input and I got accused of inappropriate desires.
> Thanks. I really appreciate that.


Just speculating as a possibilty, even subconciously. Don't take it
personally Rufus.



>
>
>
> >We just don't know. Your reply to him was really good.
> > I just can't see requiring an interlock "several years" after an offence
> > tho'.
> >
>
>

[Savik]

Good plan, Rufus/Chris - there's an Al-Anon adage that says
alcoholics don't make friends, they take hostages. It's true. Stay
strong, and don't give in to her pleas - just grit your teeth and
be thankful you aren't married to her.

"Rufus" <nospam@nospamme.com> wrote in message
news:cCyJe.5820$z%.2014@trnddc02...
|
| "Been There, Got a mug" <ratso_2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| news:1123344823.385094.129240@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
| >
| >>From personal experiences,
| > confronting a person
| > who has an assumed drinking problem
| > will result with them denying it
| >
| > Of course her roadmap leads one to
| > believe she is approaching the 1st step
| > of recognizing it: My life is unmanagable due to
| > alcohol abuse.
| >
| > Until she reachs a point of "clarity" , you can only watch.
| >
| > Whatever intentions to really have
| > for the girl will greatly confuse the
| > issue.
| >
| > As her manager, you are placing
| > yourself in a position of control over her
| > in that you are confronting her with a
| > personal problem that she (will) deny
| > and place you in a very tricky position.
| >
| > Are you her boss ?
| > Friend ?
| > Caretaker ?
| > Want-a lover ?
| >
| > What is going to happen afterwards ?
| > Are you ready for it ?
| >
| > No advice. Just thoughts
|
| Your thoughts are appreciated. From what I have heard here, and read
| elsewhere, it seems that confrontation, or even a friendly comment, will
do
| little for her. The best I can do as her manger/friend is to not enable
| her. She won't be getting more rides due to being hungover or not being
| able to srtart her vehicle. She has three remaining sick days, after
which
| a doctor's note is required. In the absence of a note, our policy is
| termination at the manager's discretion, which is exactly what I will do.
I
| have plenty of friends, loosing one won't kill me. Thanks again for your
| thoughts.
|
| Chris
|
|
|

[Been There, Got a mug]

If she does reach the end of excuses and sick days,
that is an appropriate time to reach her (IMO
) Your have a
history of behaviour that you can show her and hopefully
wake her up.

Good luck !

[Been There, Got a mug]

PS..

You may want to check your companies
mental health and chemical dependencies
policys .. You pay for it .. Use it !
rehab and other counseling is available.
You don't have to do this yourself.

[Rufus]

"Been There, Got a mug" <ratso_2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123543422.239074.267390@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> PS..
>
> You may want to check your companies
> mental health and chemical dependencies
> policys .. You pay for it .. Use it !
> rehab and other counseling is available.
> You don't have to do this yourself.

In a surprise move, she approached me today and told me she has a problem
and asked what I can do to help. I said I can't do anything myself. We
went to HR and arranged for a counslor. I'm not so gullible as to assume
she will go, so I made sure the appointment is during working hours. She
will be required to submit a note from the couselor each time she goes as
proof she went, with the understanding that if no note is presented to me
she'll undergo disciplanary actions.

It's a start.

Chris

[Rufus]

"stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:DlHJe.211131$on1.80065@clgrps13...
>
> Rufus <nospam@nospamme.com> wrote in message
> news:lryJe.5735$z%.4426@trnddc02...
>>
>> "stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
>> news:ro6Je.161460$HI.111119@edtnps84...
>> >
>> > "Been There, Got a mug" <ratso_2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > news:1123345010.090043.121350@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>> >> Red flag bullshit detector up !
>> >>
>> >> AA attendance for a DWI is common more than not.
>> >
>> > For a first-time offence in the US? Our courts have more common sense
> in
>> > Canada then, especially with a "low blow" and a first time offender.
>> >
>> > By the sound of his info, this young lady is a typical in-denial
>> > bullshitter. I wonder if he's not enabling her a bit by offering her
> rides
>> > etc.
>>
>> Yes, I think I have been. And as I came to the realization the she has a
>> problem I informed her that I won't be doing that anymore.
>
> I am a drunk, five years sober Rufus. Sometimes it takes a wake-up call
> of
> some sort
>
>
>>
>> >Maybe he secretly has some desires for her and her "exciting"ay of life.
>>
>> Wow, I was just seeking input and I got accused of inappropriate desires.
>> Thanks. I really appreciate that.
>
>
> Just speculating as a possibilty, even subconciously. Don't take it
> personally Rufus.

I'm sorry about that. As far as I know, my motives are pure. I did find
comments elsewhere about the possibility that I have a hero thing going on
interesting. I suppose anything's possible, but I'm not so naive as to
think that I'll say some words, she'll realize she has a problem, and will
then forever recognize me as the "friend who set her straight".

Chris

>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> >We just don't know. Your reply to him was really good.
>> > I just can't see requiring an interlock "several years" after an
>> > offence
>> > tho'.
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

[Rufus]

"Savik" <nospam@bluey.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01MJe.137550$Pf3.128933@fe2.news.blueyonder.c o.uk...
> Good plan, Rufus/Chris - there's an Al-Anon adage that says
> alcoholics don't make friends, they take hostages. It's true. Stay
> strong, and don't give in to her pleas - just grit your teeth and
> be thankful you aren't married to her.

Thanks for that :)

Chris (it is actually Chris)


>
> "Rufus" <nospam@nospamme.com> wrote in message
> news:cCyJe.5820$z%.2014@trnddc02...
> |
> | "Been There, Got a mug" <ratso_2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> | news:1123344823.385094.129240@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> | >
> | >>From personal experiences,
> | > confronting a person
> | > who has an assumed drinking problem
> | > will result with them denying it
> | >
> | > Of course her roadmap leads one to
> | > believe she is approaching the 1st step
> | > of recognizing it: My life is unmanagable due to
> | > alcohol abuse.
> | >
> | > Until she reachs a point of "clarity" , you can only watch.
> | >
> | > Whatever intentions to really have
> | > for the girl will greatly confuse the
> | > issue.
> | >
> | > As her manager, you are placing
> | > yourself in a position of control over her
> | > in that you are confronting her with a
> | > personal problem that she (will) deny
> | > and place you in a very tricky position.
> | >
> | > Are you her boss ?
> | > Friend ?
> | > Caretaker ?
> | > Want-a lover ?
> | >
> | > What is going to happen afterwards ?
> | > Are you ready for it ?
> | >
> | > No advice. Just thoughts
> |
> | Your thoughts are appreciated. From what I have heard here, and read
> | elsewhere, it seems that confrontation, or even a friendly comment, will
> do
> | little for her. The best I can do as her manger/friend is to not enable
> | her. She won't be getting more rides due to being hungover or not being
> | able to srtart her vehicle. She has three remaining sick days, after
> which
> | a doctor's note is required. In the absence of a note, our policy is
> | termination at the manager's discretion, which is exactly what I will
> do.
> I
> | have plenty of friends, loosing one won't kill me. Thanks again for
> your
> | thoughts.
> |
> | Chris
> |
> |
> |
>
>

[Bobby L]

"Rufus" <nospam@nospamme.com> wrote in message
news:%3SJe.2215$0d.1063@trnddc03...
>
> "Been There, Got a mug" <ratso_2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1123543422.239074.267390@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> > PS..
> >
> > You may want to check your companies
> > mental health and chemical dependencies
> > policys .. You pay for it .. Use it !
> > rehab and other counseling is available.
> > You don't have to do this yourself.
>
> In a surprise move, she approached me today and told me she has a problem
> and asked what I can do to help. I said I can't do anything myself. We
> went to HR and arranged for a counslor. I'm not so gullible as to assume
> she will go, so I made sure the appointment is during working hours. She
> will be required to submit a note from the couselor each time she goes as
> proof she went, with the understanding that if no note is presented to me
> she'll undergo disciplanary actions.
>
> It's a start.
>
> Chris
>
>

Chris, then I recommend - for your sake - any action taken for
non-compliance will be her decision -- not yours. I have learned the
consequences for my actions and inactions are my decision -- I typically
knew/know going in that certain outputs are predicated on specific inputs.
If I choose not to comply (input) then I have chosen the consequences
(output) and the reponsibility for whatever happens is mine -- not the
person/place/thing that gives me what I have requested.

Bobby L

[stuart]

Rufus <nospam@nospamme.com> wrote in message
news:abSJe.2234$0d.930@trnddc03...
>
> "stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:DlHJe.211131$on1.80065@clgrps13...
> >
> > Rufus <nospam@nospamme.com> wrote in message
> > news:lryJe.5735$z%.4426@trnddc02...
> >>
> >> "stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
> >> news:ro6Je.161460$HI.111119@edtnps84...
> >> >
> >> > "Been There, Got a mug" <ratso_2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:1123345010.090043.121350@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> >> >> Red flag bullshit detector up !
> >> >>
> >> >> AA attendance for a DWI is common more than not.
> >> >
> >> > For a first-time offence in the US? Our courts have more common
sense
> > in
> >> > Canada then, especially with a "low blow" and a first time offender.
> >> >
> >> > By the sound of his info, this young lady is a typical in-denial
> >> > bullshitter. I wonder if he's not enabling her a bit by offering her
> > rides
> >> > etc.
> >>
> >> Yes, I think I have been. And as I came to the realization the she has
a
> >> problem I informed her that I won't be doing that anymore.
> >
> > I am a drunk, five years sober Rufus. Sometimes it takes a wake-up call
> > of
> > some sort
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >Maybe he secretly has some desires for her and her "exciting"ay of
life.
> >>
> >> Wow, I was just seeking input and I got accused of inappropriate
desires.
> >> Thanks. I really appreciate that.
> >
> >
> > Just speculating as a possibilty, even subconciously. Don't take it
> > personally Rufus.
>
> I'm sorry about that. As far as I know, my motives are pure. I did find
> comments elsewhere about the possibility that I have a hero thing going on
> interesting. I suppose anything's possible, but I'm not so naive as to
> think that I'll say some words, she'll realize she has a problem, and will
> then forever recognize me as the "friend who set her straight".
>
> Chris

If you look at the 12&12 of AA, especially the chapter on step one, it
discusses htting bottom first. Now, whether someone chooses AA, or any other
means of sobering up doesn't really matter. Most if not all people with a
drinking problem will never do anything about it until they hit bottom, or
feel boxed into a corner, hooped, or whatever. I don't know a soul who
joined AA because theri life was a complete success at the time. Quitting
(or moderating) drinking is the easy part. Staying stopped (or moderated) is
the toughest angle.





> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >We just don't know. Your reply to him was really good.
> >> > I just can't see requiring an interlock "several years" after an
> >> > offence
> >> > tho'.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[Bryan]

Rufus wrote:
> "stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:DlHJe.211131$on1.80065@clgrps13...
>
>>Rufus <nospam@nospamme.com> wrote in message
>>news:lryJe.5735$z%.4426@trnddc02...
>>
>>>"stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
>>>news:ro6Je.161460$HI.111119@edtnps84...
>>>
>>>>"Been There, Got a mug" <ratso_2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:1123345010.090043.121350@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>>>>
>>>>>Red flag bullshit detector up !
>>>>>
>>>>>AA attendance for a DWI is common more than not.
>>>>
>>>>For a first-time offence in the US? Our courts have more common sense
>>
>>in
>>
>>>>Canada then, especially with a "low blow" and a first time offender.
>>>>
>>>>By the sound of his info, this young lady is a typical in-denial
>>>>bullshitter. I wonder if he's not enabling her a bit by offering her
>>
>>rides
>>
>>>>etc.
>>>
>>>Yes, I think I have been. And as I came to the realization the she has a
>>>problem I informed her that I won't be doing that anymore.
>>
>>I am a drunk, five years sober Rufus. Sometimes it takes a wake-up call
>>of
>>some sort
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Maybe he secretly has some desires for her and her "exciting"ay of life.
>>>
>>>Wow, I was just seeking input and I got accused of inappropriate desires.
>>>Thanks. I really appreciate that.
>>
>>
>>Just speculating as a possibilty, even subconciously. Don't take it
>>personally Rufus.
>
>
> I'm sorry about that. As far as I know, my motives are pure. I did find
> comments elsewhere about the possibility that I have a hero thing going on
> interesting. I suppose anything's possible, but I'm not so naive as to
> think that I'll say some words, she'll realize she has a problem, and will
> then forever recognize me as the "friend who set her straight".
>
> Chris
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>We just don't know. Your reply to him was really good.
>>>>I just can't see requiring an interlock "several years" after an
>>>>offence
>>>>tho'.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Personally i am an alcoholic. People who
confronted me about it just pissed me off. Find
an alanon meeting. Touchy subject man, it's hard.
People don't like to be told there alcoholics
especially when they are in denial. Chances are
she'll take it personally and won't do much good.
Took me 12 years to get my ass to meetings
willingly and there is no guarantees i'll succeed
but i'm sure in hell going to try.


I just advise alanon because alanon is for people
who have family/friend etc. who are alcoholics and
it gives you guidelines on how you may be able to
deal with it. And i advise because i don't have
any good advice to give on the subject, i don't
really know if there is any.

My guess to answer your other question is yes,
sounds like she is definitely an alcoholic. I
haven't a doubt in my mind. But i am not
qualified to give this advice just my opinion.

Bryan

[Bryan]

stuart wrote:
> Rufus <nospam@nospamme.com> wrote in message
> news:abSJe.2234$0d.930@trnddc03...
>
>>"stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>news:DlHJe.211131$on1.80065@clgrps13...
>>
>>>Rufus <nospam@nospamme.com> wrote in message
>>>news:lryJe.5735$z%.4426@trnddc02...
>>>
>>>>"stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
>>>>news:ro6Je.161460$HI.111119@edtnps84...
>>>>
>>>>>"Been There, Got a mug" <ratso_2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:1123345010.090043.121350@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>>Red flag bullshit detector up !
>>>>>>
>>>>>>AA attendance for a DWI is common more than not.
>>>>>
>>>>>For a first-time offence in the US? Our courts have more common
>
> sense
>
>>>in
>>>
>>>>>Canada then, especially with a "low blow" and a first time offender.
>>>>>
>>>>>By the sound of his info, this young lady is a typical in-denial
>>>>>bullshitter. I wonder if he's not enabling her a bit by offering her
>>>
>>>rides
>>>
>>>>>etc.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, I think I have been. And as I came to the realization the she has
>
> a
>
>>>>problem I informed her that I won't be doing that anymore.
>>>
>>>I am a drunk, five years sober Rufus. Sometimes it takes a wake-up call
>>>of
>>>some sort
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Maybe he secretly has some desires for her and her "exciting"ay of
>
> life.
>
>>>>Wow, I was just seeking input and I got accused of inappropriate
>
> desires.
>
>>>>Thanks. I really appreciate that.
>>>
>>>
>>>Just speculating as a possibilty, even subconciously. Don't take it
>>>personally Rufus.
>>
>>I'm sorry about that. As far as I know, my motives are pure. I did find
>>comments elsewhere about the possibility that I have a hero thing going on
>>interesting. I suppose anything's possible, but I'm not so naive as to
>>think that I'll say some words, she'll realize she has a problem, and will
>>then forever recognize me as the "friend who set her straight".
>>
>>Chris
>
>
> If you look at the 12&12 of AA, especially the chapter on step one, it
> discusses htting bottom first. Now, whether someone chooses AA, or any other
> means of sobering up doesn't really matter. Most if not all people with a
> drinking problem will never do anything about it until they hit bottom, or
> feel boxed into a corner, hooped, or whatever. I don't know a soul who
> joined AA because theri life was a complete success at the time. Quitting
> (or moderating) drinking is the easy part. Staying stopped (or moderated) is
> the toughest angle.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>We just don't know. Your reply to him was really good.
>>>>>I just can't see requiring an interlock "several years" after an
>>>>>offence
>>>>>tho'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
took me 3 drunk drivings to get out of denial, and
even then i continued to drink. Alcoholism
fucking sucks in my opinion. Now looking back i
was a blatant idiot for not seeing i'm a drunk.
Oh well, now time to deal with it. And life goes on.

[Bryan]

Rufus wrote:
> "Been There, Got a mug" <ratso_2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1123543422.239074.267390@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
>>PS..
>>
>>You may want to check your companies
>>mental health and chemical dependencies
>>policys .. You pay for it .. Use it !
>>rehab and other counseling is available.
>>You don't have to do this yourself.
>
>
> In a surprise move, she approached me today and told me she has a problem
> and asked what I can do to help. I said I can't do anything myself. We
> went to HR and arranged for a counslor. I'm not so gullible as to assume
> she will go, so I made sure the appointment is during working hours. She
> will be required to submit a note from the couselor each time she goes as
> proof she went, with the understanding that if no note is presented to me
> she'll undergo disciplanary actions.
>
> It's a start.
>
> Chris
>
>
yes that is excellent i am happy to here that. Be
gentle with her man, that is a major breakthrough.

[someone in need]

On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 04:29:21 GMT, "Rufus" <nospam@nospamme.com> wrote:

>I'm in way over my head, and I need some help.
>
>I manage 1 person at my office (we are a very small department). We have
>become fairly good friends over the past six months and she sometimes jokes
>that she's my little sister and I'm her big brother. She is 24 and I am
>37. Our relationship is completely platonic, but fairly close. She has
>told me many personal things about her and her life, but has never sought my
>advice on anything. She socializes with my wife and I and some mutual
>friends from work at least once a week.
>
>I am worried that she may have a problem with alcohol. Here's some things I
>have observed:
>
>1. On occasion, I have picked her up at her apartment after work to
>car-pool to an evening out with friends. Frequently, she has consumed a
>glass of wine in the 30 minutes between the time she gets home and the time
>I pick her up. This is solitary drinking - she lives alone. She then
>drinks more, usually to the point of mild intoxication, as the night
>progresses.
>
>2. Sometimes when returning from social gatherings (say around 10:30 PM) at
>which we have consumed alcohol, she calls other friends and goes out
>drinking.
>
>3. She lost her license for a year several years ago for DUI. She now has
>a breathalyzer interlock installed in her vehicle. She will be allowed to
>remove this in September. She was not stopped for driving erratically, but
>because she forgot to turn on her headlights (something I have done on
>occasion without having consumed any alcohol).
>
>4. As part of her DUI conviction she was required to attend AA meetings.
>She was told she has a problem but didn't believe them.
>
>5. In the past six months she has missed work once because of a hangover,
>and has shown up to work hung-over twice.
>
>6. She missed work today because she had so much to drink last night that
>her interlock device would not allow her to drive. A friend from out of
>town is staying with her and they were up late drinking at her home (so she
>says).
>
>7. I have given her rides to work several times because on the previous
>night she had to be driven home by friends because she could not start her
>vehicle for the same reason above.
>
>On the plus side, I have seen her just have one drink and return home. I
>have also seen her attend social gatherings where she did not drink at all.
>
>My question is does she have a problem or is she just a young girl getting a
>little carried away? She is fresh out of college and all of her friends at
>college drank heavily (as college kids often do).
>
>My second question is, what should I do? Should I recommend that she seek
>help? If so, where?
>
>I think it likely she will refuse to attend AA. Should I offer to go with
>her to meetings as a friend if by some chance I could convince her to go?
>
>Should I just express my concern and suggest she drink less?
>
>Any comments or help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Chris
>




Do not be an

enabler

or

caretaker



Family and friends care about and love the person drinking that they
try to support them, cover up for them, etc. Often they hope they can
use logic and reason to deal with the alcoholic and fix the problem.

Stop giving money to the drinker. Let them work to pay for their
lifestyle.

If possible get them out of the home they do not pay rent for or
contribute to the family. Even if you have to pay the security
deposit and first months rent SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Well worth it for peace of mind. The alcoholic will have face the
consequences of their behavior, ie: muct pay their own rent with lease
in their name, living expenses, etc etc.

The addiction often makes them unable to control spending or budget.
No matter how much or how little they earn, they will blow it.

The realistic possibility of becoming homeles subsequent to eviction
has true motivational value

It is said the alcoholic is motivated to get help when the painfull
consequences surpass the pleasure derived from drinking.


If he/she gets evicted and comes back home with a sad story, even
crying, manipulating, tell him/her they are welcome back AFTER
successfully completing rehab.

Be supportive of them in rehab.

Do not give them money. Say you love them but you will not support the
addiction, only the recovery.

It is hard to do if you love someone BUT is ESSENTIAL if they are to
recover..

Actually it is a loving thing to stop being the enabler/caretaker.


"stuck in a moment and they can get out of it"

[someone in need]

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 04:20:42 GMT, "stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote:

>
>Rufus <nospam@nospamme.com> wrote in message
>news:abSJe.2234$0d.930@trnddc03...
>>
>> "stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:DlHJe.211131$on1.80065@clgrps13...
>> >
>> > Rufus <nospam@nospamme.com> wrote in message
>> > news:lryJe.5735$z%.4426@trnddc02...
>> >>
>> >> "stuart" <ggo@feds.org> wrote in message
>> >> news:ro6Je.161460$HI.111119@edtnps84...
>> >> >
>> >> > "Been There, Got a mug" <ratso_2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >> > news:1123345010.090043.121350@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>> >> >> Red flag bullshit detector up !
>> >> >>
>> >> >> AA attendance for a DWI is common more than not.
>> >> >
>> >> > For a first-time offence in the US? Our courts have more common
>sense
>> > in
>> >> > Canada then, especially with a "low blow" and a first time offender.
>> >> >
>> >> > By the sound of his info, this young lady is a typical in-denial
>> >> > bullshitter. I wonder if he's not enabling her a bit by offering her
>> > rides
>> >> > etc.
>> >>
>> >> Yes, I think I have been. And as I came to the realization the she has
>a
>> >> problem I informed her that I won't be doing that anymore.
>> >
>> > I am a drunk, five years sober Rufus. Sometimes it takes a wake-up call
>> > of
>> > some sort
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> >Maybe he secretly has some desires for her and her "exciting"ay of
>life.
>> >>
>> >> Wow, I was just seeking input and I got accused of inappropriate
>desires.
>> >> Thanks. I really appreciate that.
>> >
>> >
>> > Just speculating as a possibilty, even subconciously. Don't take it
>> > personally Rufus.
>>
>> I'm sorry about that. As far as I know, my motives are pure. I did find
>> comments elsewhere about the possibility that I have a hero thing going on
>> interesting. I suppose anything's possible, but I'm not so naive as to
>> think that I'll say some words, she'll realize she has a problem, and will
>> then forever recognize me as the "friend who set her straight".
>>
>> Chris
>
>If you look at the 12&12 of AA, especially the chapter on step one, it
>discusses htting bottom first. Now, whether someone chooses AA, or any other
>means of sobering up doesn't really matter. Most if not all people with a
>drinking problem will never do anything about it until they hit bottom, or
>feel boxed into a corner, hooped, or whatever. I don't know a soul who
>joined AA because theri life was a complete success at the time. Quitting
>(or moderating) drinking is the easy part. Staying stopped (or moderated) is
>the toughest angle.
>
>
>
>


Data from the hazelen rehab center suggests interventions, if done
properly can have an 85% initial success rate in getting the alcoholic
to treatment.

Guess it doesnt hurt if they are close to hitting bottom when the
intervention is done.

I read this in a very interesting book called "love first"