ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

[rockhound]

jeezus freaking sobriety crapola life is HARD SOMETIMES and it
freaking HURTS and it's so CONFUSING and ya can't tell which way is UP
and cry and laugh and CAN'T SLEEP and HOW are you gonna face THIS and
just what position will ya take after you've thought out all the pros
and cons and listened to advice and ya still can't make up your
mind...

all holed up away from disaster JUST when you think it's awry KABAM
SLAP - disaster

why?

WAKE UP KID

===> THIS <=== is your life

hoily gees


Still a kid??? how does this happen?????


I think that Life has handed me a proverbial curve ball. It feels so
custom-made, tho......


by christ tho i just might have the stamina to engage this episode of
life with even mild amusement and EVER SO SLIM moments of peace of
mind, maybe?

holy jees nobody explained it like this


man oh man how far up the wrong end can a person get heorsheit's head



Man when i'm feeling this messed even some of you e-lians start to
look good...

I wish some of you were real, and capable of interaction.

Think about y'all from time to time.


Hi, fellow Bob, hope life has unfolding its beautiful mysteries to
you.

well, thought i'd check in, being 3 am and all...


STILL SOBER HAH! do ya believe that.


but ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

[Robert McGregor]

rockhound wrote:
>
> Still a kid??? how does this happen?????
>
>
> I think that Life has handed me a proverbial curve ball. It feels so
> custom-made, tho......
>

AA dogma says "So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own
making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme
example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so."
http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_62.htm

Maybe while free to choose which game to play, we often delude
ourselves we can bend the rules with impunity?


>
> I wish some of you were real, and capable of interaction.
>
>

Arguably Bill Wilson's greatest disservice to Alcoholics Anonymous is
the way the original concept of hope of a solution for real alcoholics
as a result of identification with a recovered alcoholic has been
abandoned. Originating with Bill's egotistical fantasies of making "The
Group" a temporary God, many AAers now believe that other people (AA
members, either individually or collectively) are *THE* solution.

> STILL SOBER HAH! do ya believe that.

Does it matter what we believe? Did you stay sober for us?

>
> but ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

ok

Bob, who in hiding from unseasonal inclement weather, has, once again,
bent rules pertaining to responsibility; and jumped ship for a couple
more nights at home. At least she handled recent gales with equanimity,
and when I finally did get out to find her, apart from bubbles gaily
farting from the stern (dishwashing liquid dislodged into the bilge)
she was how and where I had left her.

[rosie read n' post]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1123064083.199251.169160@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
> Bob, who in hiding from unseasonal inclement weather, has, once again,
> bent rules pertaining to responsibility; and jumped ship for a couple
> more nights at home. At least she handled recent gales with
equanimity,
> and when I finally did get out to find her, apart from bubbles gaily
> farting from the stern (dishwashing liquid dislodged into the bilge)
> she was how and where I had left her.
>


i'm glad that you are safe and that "she" survived the storm.

[rockhound]

On 3 Aug 2005 03:14:43 -0700, "Robert McGregor"
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>AA dogma says "So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own
>making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme
>example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so."
>http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_62.htm

Is he not a victim of the DELUSION that he can wrest satisfaction out
of life if he only MANAGES well? Is he not really a self-seeker EVEN
when trying to be USEFUL?

>Maybe while free to choose which game to play, we often delude
>ourselves we can bend the rules with impunity?
....
he is sure that other people are more to blame. He becomes angry,
indignant, self-pitying...

>> I wish some of you were real, and capable of interaction.
>>
>>
>
>Arguably Bill Wilson's greatest disservice to Alcoholics Anonymous is
>the way the original concept of hope of a solution for real alcoholics
>as a result of identification with a recovered alcoholic has been
>abandoned. Originating with Bill's egotistical fantasies of making "The
>Group" a temporary God, many AAers now believe that other people (AA
>members, either individually or collectively) are *THE* solution.
>
>> STILL SOBER HAH! do ya believe that.
>
>Does it matter what we believe? Did you stay sober for us?

Well, no, actually, I'm actually kind of just surprised - this was the
downturn when, according to my life as written, i'd have packed it in
and sought out my oblivion for sure. Strangely, and yes, this may be
mental obsession of different twist, but i still keep 'taking my
temperature' so to speak, to see whether i am tempted to drink or not.

I am highly skeptical about this 'rest of your life' no lurking
notion, because i've deluded myself in the past to thinking i meant
business there...easily cast aside in favor of another drink,
normally.

Particularly, not even having made any attempt whatsoever to 'swear
off' this go-round, - what last spring? perhaps pessimistically
assuming to err on the side of caution, realizing i am SO in-between
drinks, and SO have to try with a will or fall by the wayside, it is
like one of my spot check inventories to check where i might be at
regarding 'the AA beam'...

Sure as shit surprises me, anyway. Must have made some actual
decision at depth this time. Certainly, it is not attributable to
principled, healthy-minded, balanced, sober living. Pretty much still
a fearful, conniving, self concerned, manipulating phony, for the most
part. And a bit too heavy on the 'more gracious' side, if u ask me,
too.....Abandon my will? But...the hole...in the donut...it looks so
dark in there...

on the other hand...guess it's been enough of a sojourn away from the
path that works, might as well give 'er another try. Thanks.


>
>>
>> but ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh
>
>ok
>
>Bob, who in hiding from unseasonal inclement weather, has, once again,
>bent rules pertaining to responsibility; and jumped ship for a couple
>more nights at home. At least she handled recent gales with equanimity,
>and when I finally did get out to find her, apart from bubbles gaily
>farting from the stern (dishwashing liquid dislodged into the bilge)
>she was how and where I had left her.

Heh - just 'jumped ship' myself (other direction), took a beat up old
canoe down a river here in the States, my 'gale' was the power plant
upriver decided to start generating all over my sandy beachside bed 3
am...

The bubbles that gaily fart here in America actually seep into the
craft from the /what used to be callable/ 'water', and were invented
over the last 100 or so years; evidently Bush's Chosen Race believes
rivers that flow into the Gulf of Mexico provide the most efficient
means to present Castro a royal flush.

that's a lot of minced words to say they've turned the rivers here
into putrid disgusting chemical flush sewers. Toilet papers 10 feet
up in the trees, hung on branches all the way down the brown foamy
scuz trail. Some refreshing journey that was.

Well, you couldn't tell how dirty it was in the rapids, at least.
(Closest you'll ever see me to big waves.)

[Dudley Do Rite]

I hate those feelings! I thought once I got over the intial hump(s) that
"life" would even out. Sounds like you've been on the journey a while and
it seems like constant serenity might be a never-ending quest! Oh well -
progress, not perfection, huh?

Page 86: "...we ask God for inspiration, an intuitive thought or a decision.
We relax and take it easy. We don't struggle."

Page 87: "As we go through the day we pause, when agitated or doubtful, and
ask for the right thought or action."

The action words, ask, relax, take it easy, don't struggle, pause, ask. Oh
how I wish they were etched in my mind too but at least they're in print
somewhere to remind ourselves to breathe...

Good luck - steve


"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:1123080942.55b5611dc18dd78ac1f2b5a224561a1d@t eranews...
> On 3 Aug 2005 03:14:43 -0700, "Robert McGregor"
> <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>>AA dogma says "So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own
>>making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme
>>example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so."
>>http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_62.htm
>
> Is he not a victim of the DELUSION that he can wrest satisfaction out
> of life if he only MANAGES well? Is he not really a self-seeker EVEN
> when trying to be USEFUL?
>
>>Maybe while free to choose which game to play, we often delude
>>ourselves we can bend the rules with impunity?
> ...
> he is sure that other people are more to blame. He becomes angry,
> indignant, self-pitying...
>
>>> I wish some of you were real, and capable of interaction.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Arguably Bill Wilson's greatest disservice to Alcoholics Anonymous is
>>the way the original concept of hope of a solution for real alcoholics
>>as a result of identification with a recovered alcoholic has been
>>abandoned. Originating with Bill's egotistical fantasies of making "The
>>Group" a temporary God, many AAers now believe that other people (AA
>>members, either individually or collectively) are *THE* solution.
>>
>>> STILL SOBER HAH! do ya believe that.
>>
>>Does it matter what we believe? Did you stay sober for us?
>
> Well, no, actually, I'm actually kind of just surprised - this was the
> downturn when, according to my life as written, i'd have packed it in
> and sought out my oblivion for sure. Strangely, and yes, this may be
> mental obsession of different twist, but i still keep 'taking my
> temperature' so to speak, to see whether i am tempted to drink or not.
>
> I am highly skeptical about this 'rest of your life' no lurking
> notion, because i've deluded myself in the past to thinking i meant
> business there...easily cast aside in favor of another drink,
> normally.
>
> Particularly, not even having made any attempt whatsoever to 'swear
> off' this go-round, - what last spring? perhaps pessimistically
> assuming to err on the side of caution, realizing i am SO in-between
> drinks, and SO have to try with a will or fall by the wayside, it is
> like one of my spot check inventories to check where i might be at
> regarding 'the AA beam'...
>
> Sure as shit surprises me, anyway. Must have made some actual
> decision at depth this time. Certainly, it is not attributable to
> principled, healthy-minded, balanced, sober living. Pretty much still
> a fearful, conniving, self concerned, manipulating phony, for the most
> part. And a bit too heavy on the 'more gracious' side, if u ask me,
> too.....Abandon my will? But...the hole...in the donut...it looks so
> dark in there...
>
> on the other hand...guess it's been enough of a sojourn away from the
> path that works, might as well give 'er another try. Thanks.
>
>
>>
>>>
>>> but ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh
>>
>>ok
>>
>>Bob, who in hiding from unseasonal inclement weather, has, once again,
>>bent rules pertaining to responsibility; and jumped ship for a couple
>>more nights at home. At least she handled recent gales with equanimity,
>>and when I finally did get out to find her, apart from bubbles gaily
>>farting from the stern (dishwashing liquid dislodged into the bilge)
>>she was how and where I had left her.
>
> Heh - just 'jumped ship' myself (other direction), took a beat up old
> canoe down a river here in the States, my 'gale' was the power plant
> upriver decided to start generating all over my sandy beachside bed 3
> am...
>
> The bubbles that gaily fart here in America actually seep into the
> craft from the /what used to be callable/ 'water', and were invented
> over the last 100 or so years; evidently Bush's Chosen Race believes
> rivers that flow into the Gulf of Mexico provide the most efficient
> means to present Castro a royal flush.
>
> that's a lot of minced words to say they've turned the rivers here
> into putrid disgusting chemical flush sewers. Toilet papers 10 feet
> up in the trees, hung on branches all the way down the brown foamy
> scuz trail. Some refreshing journey that was.
>
> Well, you couldn't tell how dirty it was in the rapids, at least.
> (Closest you'll ever see me to big waves.)

[rosie read n' post]

>
> The action words, ask, relax, take it easy, don't struggle, pause,
ask. Oh
> how I wish they were etched in my mind too but at least they're in
print
> somewhere to remind ourselves to breathe...
>
> Good luck - steve
>


so well said...................time grasshopper, time!
:)

[Mias]

Hi Rocky IV
"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:1123053399.ce2ddc04b7e5fbb9fd335a1e09ae9072@t eranews...
> jeezus freaking sobriety crapola life is HARD SOMETIMES and it
> freaking HURTS and it's so CONFUSING and ya can't tell which way is UP
> and cry and laugh and CAN'T SLEEP and HOW are you gonna face THIS and
> just what position will ya take after you've thought out all the pros
> and cons and listened to advice and ya still can't make up your
> mind...
>
> all holed up away from disaster JUST when you think it's awry KABAM
> SLAP - disaster
>
> why?
>
> WAKE UP KID
>
> ===> THIS <=== is your life
>
> hoily gees
>
>
> Still a kid??? how does this happen?????
>
>
> I think that Life has handed me a proverbial curve ball. It feels so
> custom-made, tho......
>
>
> by christ tho i just might have the stamina to engage this episode of
> life with even mild amusement and EVER SO SLIM moments of peace of
> mind, maybe?
>
> holy jees nobody explained it like this
>
>
> man oh man how far up the wrong end can a person get heorsheit's head
>
>
>
> Man when i'm feeling this messed even some of you e-lians start to
> look good...
>
> I wish some of you were real, and capable of interaction.
>
> Think about y'all from time to time.
>
>
> Hi, fellow Bob, hope life has unfolding its beautiful mysteries to
> you.
>
> well, thought i'd check in, being 3 am and all...
>
>
> STILL SOBER HAH! do ya believe that.
>
>
> but ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

[Robert McGregor]

rockhound wrote:
> On 3 Aug 2005 03:14:43 -0700, "Robert McGregor"
> <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
snips>

> >
> >> STILL SOBER HAH! do ya believe that.
> >
> >Does it matter what we believe? Did you stay sober for us?
>
> Well, no, actually, I'm actually kind of just surprised - this was the
> downturn when, according to my life as written, i'd have packed it in
> and sought out my oblivion for sure. Strangely, and yes, this may be
> mental obsession of different twist, but i still keep 'taking my
> temperature' so to speak, to see whether i am tempted to drink or not.

Oh, I can clearly remember that temperature taking phase. Merely a
reality check for someone unaccustomed to sustained success?

>
> I am highly skeptical about this 'rest of your life' no lurking
> notion, because i've deluded myself in the past to thinking i meant
> business there...easily cast aside in favor of another drink,
> normally.

For me, hollering, "Under no circumstances whatsoever will I drink
today" took a long time changing from a daily mantra expressing hope,
through only hollering in face of adversity, to realisation that
freedom from both alcohol, and constant thoughts about alcohol, is and
can remain, a reality.

>
> Particularly, not even having made any attempt whatsoever to 'swear
> off' this go-round, - what last spring? perhaps pessimistically
> assuming to err on the side of caution, realizing i am SO in-between
> drinks, and SO have to try with a will or fall by the wayside, it is
> like one of my spot check inventories to check where i might be at
> regarding 'the AA beam'...
>
> Sure as shit surprises me, anyway. Must have made some actual
> decision at depth this time. Certainly, it is not attributable to
> principled, healthy-minded, balanced, sober living. Pretty much still
> a fearful, conniving, self concerned, manipulating phony, for the most
> part. And a bit too heavy on the 'more gracious' side, if u ask me,
> too.....Abandon my will? But...the hole...in the donut...it looks so
> dark in there...

My experience is that "turning over my will and life" was like bungee
jumping with an invisible rope. However before embarking on that great
leap, I did seriously and thoroughly compare the worst possible outcome
of not jumping, with the worst possible outcome of jumping that I could
imagine.

Guess I landed squarely in the pagan category. Today, with benefit of
hindsight, I have no trouble recognising my rope as "The Great Reality"
of page 55 fame, as compared to the wishful thinking (or no thinking)
method and consequences to which I had long and sadly become
accustomed.

>
> on the other hand...guess it's been enough of a sojourn away from the
> path that works, might as well give 'er another try. Thanks.
>

Wishing you well.

Bob

[rockhound]

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 08:30:23 -0700, "Dudley Do Rite"
<lemondrop17@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I hate those feelings! I thought once I got over the intial hump(s) that
>"life" would even out. Sounds like you've been on the journey a while and
>it seems like constant serenity might be a never-ending quest! Oh well -
>progress, not perfection, huh?
>
>Page 86: "...we ask God for inspiration, an intuitive thought or a decision.
>We relax and take it easy. We don't struggle."
>
>Page 87: "As we go through the day we pause, when agitated or doubtful, and
>ask for the right thought or action."
>
>The action words, ask, relax, take it easy, don't struggle, pause, ask. Oh
>how I wish they were etched in my mind too but at least they're in print
>somewhere to remind ourselves to breathe...
>
>Good luck - steve

Some of us, steve, put the AA booze-cure through some severe yet
successful tests :)

Those moments of prayer had all but vanished from my daily life - just
a distant echo drowned out by obstinate self-reliance, but now i've
been at it hard out of pure desperation for a day or so, constant
reminders i am not required to run the show, - what a relief. For
such a simple gimmicky-seeming quick-fix type crutch, it's sure a lot
faster than aspirin. Emotions dissipate, balance restores itself,
answers come. Suddenly there's room in the mind to start asking the
right questions. Much grateful for the girl on the other end of the
phone that reminded me, and didn't steer me wrong.

And much grateful for the reminder as to the cause of it all - nothing
like a good healthy inventory to bring laughter into the weirdest of
situations. Would like to learn this mystery the better to pass on.

With this recipe, aiming for character, it's obvious i can face
whatever comes down the pipe. I don't know why i keep thinking i can
do better...gotta learn everything the hard way i guess.

[rockhound]

On 3 Aug 2005 13:29:38 -0700, "Robert McGregor"
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>"turning over my will and life" was like bungee
>jumping with an invisible rope.

Yeah - highly subject to market fluctuations too.

Thought For The Day - bungee jump

I like it.

[rockhound]

Hey Mias, how's things out on your beat?

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 20:41:10 +0200, "Mias"
<emiasNO@SPAMnetactive.co.za> wrote:

>Hi Rocky IV

[jim]

HI Rock, how are you? still crazy?
"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:1123220716.2cbfe31eb338baa4f13777b9734a0ff6@t eranews...
>
> Hey Mias, how's things out on your beat?
>
> On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 20:41:10 +0200, "Mias"
> <emiasNO@SPAMnetactive.co.za> wrote:
>
>>Hi Rocky IV

[rockhound]

On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 14:33:26 GMT, "jim" <dingdong46@shaw.ca> wrote:

>HI Rock, how are you? still crazy?

On this spectacular day, following a severe drought and then a sudden,
desperate and determined inventorical flash flood, I have never been
soberer.

Working hard to maintain the nutty disposition tho...at least that's
the reason I like to give myself for its conspicuous everpresence...

Sobriety? There just ain't no substitootin. It is the awesomest.

How's things in my favorite e-drunk's world? Still crossing swords
with the powers that be, I hope, and stooping to smell the roses on
the way?

Any questions i may be able to answer, now that i have tapped into the
most high? LOL!

All my love to Hastings, and yourself,

rock


PS just found out this weekend that kinky sex is ok in AA - if
they'd've told me that years back i might have come around a lot
sooner...did anybody tell you?


--------------UNRELATED CONTENT BELOW------------
>"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
>news:1123220716.2cbfe31eb338baa4f13777b9734a0ff6@t eranews...
>>
>> Hey Mias, how's things out on your beat?
>>
>> On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 20:41:10 +0200, "Mias"
>> <emiasNO@SPAMnetactive.co.za> wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Rocky IV
>

....rockhound waited silently as Mias fumbled for the keys...

[jim]

Good to hear. I will have 11 months sobriety this month,and as Mias says,
loving every minute of it,well sort of,lol. Still single too :[
Jim
"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:1123589636.30799b05630e8e9efb1337e9dd8c2f83@t eranews...
> On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 14:33:26 GMT, "jim" <dingdong46@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>HI Rock, how are you? still crazy?
>
> On this spectacular day, following a severe drought and then a sudden,
> desperate and determined inventorical flash flood, I have never been
> soberer.
>
> Working hard to maintain the nutty disposition tho...at least that's
> the reason I like to give myself for its conspicuous everpresence...
>
> Sobriety? There just ain't no substitootin. It is the awesomest.
>
> How's things in my favorite e-drunk's world? Still crossing swords
> with the powers that be, I hope, and stooping to smell the roses on
> the way?
>
> Any questions i may be able to answer, now that i have tapped into the
> most high? LOL!
>
> All my love to Hastings, and yourself,
>
> rock
>
>
> PS just found out this weekend that kinky sex is ok in AA - if
> they'd've told me that years back i might have come around a lot
> sooner...did anybody tell you?
>
>
> --------------UNRELATED CONTENT BELOW------------
>>"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
>>news:1123220716.2cbfe31eb338baa4f13777b9734a0ff6@t eranews...
>>>
>>> Hey Mias, how's things out on your beat?
>>>
>>> On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 20:41:10 +0200, "Mias"
>>> <emiasNO@SPAMnetactive.co.za> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Rocky IV
>>
>
> ...rockhound waited silently as Mias fumbled for the keys...

[Darren]

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:1123053399.ce2ddc04b7e5fbb9fd335a1e09ae9072@t eranews...
>
> but ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

I know how you feel. Sober but barely sane in my case.

Darren