Paging Agent Orange!

[Yeah]

Hey, AO!

I'm a human that has been wrestling with my alcohol (and other)
addictions for the past six months. I've realized that my decade of
drinking (I'm now 30 years old) was not really "fun" and now I'm trying
to find support mechanisms while I battle my 'lizard brain'.

Personally - I was really distressed about A.A.'s "magical, mystical"
power being so prominent. I am a devout atheist. I was upset that A.A.
was the only 'common' group/support method available. (I live in
Canada/Toronto.)

I admit, I have never attended an AA meeting so I'm not all that
knowledgable. I didn't believe that the 'solution' would come from
anywhere other than "me" though . Please note, folks: I'm not
advocating that A.A. dosen't have its uses, even for us atheists. I'm
just stating that during the care system selection process, that
"spiritual" stuff dumps it down a few notches, for us heathens, eh?




I want to thank you for posting about AVRT. It seems like a methodology
that will likely be my greatest source of (external) strength. My
counsellor and my MD never mentioned it. None of my alcoholic friends
were even aware of it. I'm off to buy the little book - thanks again.


-- Scott.

[Moonraker]

"Yeah" <kjasd@jklhasd.com> wrote in message
news:0yUVa.5708$Cx4.674553@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> Hey, AO!
>
> I'm a human that has been wrestling with my alcohol (and other)
> addictions for the past six months. I've realized that my decade of
> drinking (I'm now 30 years old) was not really "fun" and now I'm trying
> to find support mechanisms while I battle my 'lizard brain'.
>
> Personally - I was really distressed about A.A.'s "magical, mystical"
> power being so prominent. I am a devout atheist. I was upset that A.A.
> was the only 'common' group/support method available. (I live in
> Canada/Toronto.)
>
> I admit, I have never attended an AA meeting so I'm not all that
> knowledgable. I didn't believe that the 'solution' would come from
> anywhere other than "me" though . Please note, folks: I'm not
> advocating that A.A. dosen't have its uses, even for us atheists. I'm
> just stating that during the care system selection process, that
> "spiritual" stuff dumps it down a few notches, for us heathens, eh?
>
>
>
>
> I want to thank you for posting about AVRT. It seems like a methodology
> that will likely be my greatest source of (external) strength. My
> counsellor and my MD never mentioned it. None of my alcoholic friends
> were even aware of it. I'm off to buy the little book - thanks again.
>
>
> -- Scott.
>
>
Good luck.

I imagine we'll still be here talking about our recovery whenever you find
out that you can't "white knuckle" it. C'mon back when you find "you" don't
have the solution. We'll save you a seat.

[stuart]

"Yeah" <kjasd@jklhasd.com> wrote in message
news:0yUVa.5708$Cx4.674553@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> Hey, AO!
>
> I'm a human that has been wrestling with my alcohol (and other)
> addictions for the past six months. I've realized that my decade of
> drinking (I'm now 30 years old) was not really "fun" and now I'm trying
> to find support mechanisms while I battle my 'lizard brain'.
>
> Personally - I was really distressed about A.A.'s "magical, mystical"
> power being so prominent. I am a devout atheist. I was upset that A.A.
> was the only 'common' group/support method available. (I live in
> Canada/Toronto.)
>
> I admit, I have never attended an AA meeting so I'm not all that
> knowledgable. I didn't believe that the 'solution' would come from
> anywhere other than "me" though . Please note, folks: I'm not
> advocating that A.A. dosen't have its uses, even for us atheists. I'm
> just stating that during the care system selection process, that
> "spiritual" stuff dumps it down a few notches, for us heathens, eh?
>
>
>
>
> I want to thank you for posting about AVRT. It seems like a methodology
> that will likely be my greatest source of (external) strength. My
> counsellor and my MD never mentioned it. None of my alcoholic friends
> were even aware of it. I'm off to buy the little book - thanks again.
>
>
> -- Scott.

Quick question Scott. You been wrestling with addictions for 6 months, 10
years, or 30 years?
If nothing changes, nothing changes.
Wherever you go, there you are. Its you and only you.
Get that will power out, stick it in your mind between your rational
thoughts, and your emotions..
"Sic 'em Will". "I'm through with that drinkin' and druggin"
Best of luck slaying that beast, old boy, its a real bastard.

[Yeah]

For the record - I'm 30 years old, have been drinking for 10 years and
realized about 6 months ago that I 'really' have a problem.

Of those 10 years, for the last 8 years, my drinking has been far beyond
what anyone would consider casual. I weigh about 145 pounds (65kg) at
5'10" and regularly consume an average of 11-13 drinks/day. (Yeah, I
recorded them for about 6 weeks..) Weekdays are a bit less, weekends a
bit more.

I was so used to being drunk or hung-over that I actually emailed my
employer stating that I wouldn't be reporting to work 'cause I was still
loaded at 8am. (Really, I had 5 hours of bull-kaka meetings that I just
didn't want to deal with.. I supervised a national I.T. department.
Being drunk or hung over at work never stopped me before.) I honestly
didn't think this was 'inappropriate' behaviour, because I had been
doing it for so long.

I've been in a sober/binge cycle for about 6 months. I tried to
moderate my consumption - which has 'slippery sloped' me back to my old
habits.

I hope that s'plains things.

I'm sure I can do it - I've dropped addictions to marijuana, crystal
meth, various psychedelics, etc.. before. This one is harder, but it'll
be whipped.

Thanks for your re-assurance.

-- Scott.




stuart wrote:
> "Yeah" <kjasd@jklhasd.com> wrote in message
> news:0yUVa.5708$Cx4.674553@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
>
>>Hey, AO!
>>
>>I'm a human that has been wrestling with my alcohol (and other)
>>addictions for the past six months. I've realized that my decade of
>>drinking (I'm now 30 years old) was not really "fun" and now I'm trying
>>to find support mechanisms while I battle my 'lizard brain'.
>>
>>Personally - I was really distressed about A.A.'s "magical, mystical"
>>power being so prominent. I am a devout atheist. I was upset that A.A.
>>was the only 'common' group/support method available. (I live in
>>Canada/Toronto.)
>>
>>I admit, I have never attended an AA meeting so I'm not all that
>>knowledgable. I didn't believe that the 'solution' would come from
>>anywhere other than "me" though . Please note, folks: I'm not
>>advocating that A.A. dosen't have its uses, even for us atheists. I'm
>>just stating that during the care system selection process, that
>>"spiritual" stuff dumps it down a few notches, for us heathens, eh?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I want to thank you for posting about AVRT. It seems like a methodology
>>that will likely be my greatest source of (external) strength. My
>>counsellor and my MD never mentioned it. None of my alcoholic friends
>>were even aware of it. I'm off to buy the little book - thanks again.
>>
>>
>>-- Scott.
>
>
> Quick question Scott. You been wrestling with addictions for 6 months, 10
> years, or 30 years?
> If nothing changes, nothing changes.
> Wherever you go, there you are. Its you and only you.
> Get that will power out, stick it in your mind between your rational
> thoughts, and your emotions..
> "Sic 'em Will". "I'm through with that drinkin' and druggin"
> Best of luck slaying that beast, old boy, its a real bastard.
>
>

[Scott Davis]

Hunh? RR and MM? Whassat?

-- Scott.





Bobby L. wrote:

> Don't forget to try RR and MM!
>
> Bobby L
>
>
> "Yeah" <kjasd@jklhasd.com> wrote in message
> news:0yUVa.5708$Cx4.674553@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
>
>>Hey, AO!
>>
>>I'm a human that has been wrestling with my alcohol (and other)
>>addictions for the past six months. I've realized that my decade of
>>drinking (I'm now 30 years old) was not really "fun" and now I'm trying
>>to find support mechanisms while I battle my 'lizard brain'.
>>
>>Personally - I was really distressed about A.A.'s "magical, mystical"
>>power being so prominent. I am a devout atheist. I was upset that A.A.
>>was the only 'common' group/support method available. (I live in
>>Canada/Toronto.)
>>
>>I admit, I have never attended an AA meeting so I'm not all that
>>knowledgable. I didn't believe that the 'solution' would come from
>>anywhere other than "me" though . Please note, folks: I'm not
>>advocating that A.A. dosen't have its uses, even for us atheists. I'm
>>just stating that during the care system selection process, that
>>"spiritual" stuff dumps it down a few notches, for us heathens, eh?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I want to thank you for posting about AVRT. It seems like a methodology
>>that will likely be my greatest source of (external) strength. My
>>counsellor and my MD never mentioned it. None of my alcoholic friends
>>were even aware of it. I'm off to buy the little book - thanks again.
>>
>>
>>-- Scott.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

[Gregg Fowler]

Sent you a personal reply, but it was kicked back. Take a look at the site
http://www.unhooked.com . This is the site for LSR. There is an extensive
knowledge base on the site. The group has meetings in many cities and there
is an excellent email list and chat meetings for support. The motto of
Lifering Secular Sobriety is don't drink not matter what. It broke off from
SOS, and is more active. There is no program other than the one that a
person develops for themselves. Check it out.

Gregg

"Yeah" <kjasd@jklhasd.com> wrote in message
news:NY2Wa.6323$Cx4.788095@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> For the record - I'm 30 years old, have been drinking for 10 years and
> realized about 6 months ago that I 'really' have a problem.
>
> Of those 10 years, for the last 8 years, my drinking has been far beyond
> what anyone would consider casual. I weigh about 145 pounds (65kg) at
> 5'10" and regularly consume an average of 11-13 drinks/day. (Yeah, I
> recorded them for about 6 weeks..) Weekdays are a bit less, weekends a
> bit more.
>
> I was so used to being drunk or hung-over that I actually emailed my
> employer stating that I wouldn't be reporting to work 'cause I was still
> loaded at 8am. (Really, I had 5 hours of bull-kaka meetings that I just
> didn't want to deal with.. I supervised a national I.T. department.
> Being drunk or hung over at work never stopped me before.) I honestly
> didn't think this was 'inappropriate' behaviour, because I had been
> doing it for so long.
>
> I've been in a sober/binge cycle for about 6 months. I tried to
> moderate my consumption - which has 'slippery sloped' me back to my old
> habits.
>
> I hope that s'plains things.
>
> I'm sure I can do it - I've dropped addictions to marijuana, crystal
> meth, various psychedelics, etc.. before. This one is harder, but it'll
> be whipped.
>
> Thanks for your re-assurance.
>
> -- Scott.
>
>
>
>
> stuart wrote:
> > "Yeah" <kjasd@jklhasd.com> wrote in message
> > news:0yUVa.5708$Cx4.674553@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> >
> >>Hey, AO!
> >>
> >>I'm a human that has been wrestling with my alcohol (and other)
> >>addictions for the past six months. I've realized that my decade of
> >>drinking (I'm now 30 years old) was not really "fun" and now I'm trying
> >>to find support mechanisms while I battle my 'lizard brain'.
> >>
> >>Personally - I was really distressed about A.A.'s "magical, mystical"
> >>power being so prominent. I am a devout atheist. I was upset that A.A.
> >>was the only 'common' group/support method available. (I live in
> >>Canada/Toronto.)
> >>
> >>I admit, I have never attended an AA meeting so I'm not all that
> >>knowledgable. I didn't believe that the 'solution' would come from
> >>anywhere other than "me" though . Please note, folks: I'm not
> >>advocating that A.A. dosen't have its uses, even for us atheists. I'm
> >>just stating that during the care system selection process, that
> >>"spiritual" stuff dumps it down a few notches, for us heathens, eh?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>I want to thank you for posting about AVRT. It seems like a methodology
> >>that will likely be my greatest source of (external) strength. My
> >>counsellor and my MD never mentioned it. None of my alcoholic friends
> >>were even aware of it. I'm off to buy the little book - thanks again.
> >>
> >>
> >>-- Scott.
> >
> >
> > Quick question Scott. You been wrestling with addictions for 6 months,
10
> > years, or 30 years?
> > If nothing changes, nothing changes.
> > Wherever you go, there you are. Its you and only you.
> > Get that will power out, stick it in your mind between your rational
> > thoughts, and your emotions..
> > "Sic 'em Will". "I'm through with that drinkin' and druggin"
> > Best of luck slaying that beast, old boy, its a real bastard.
> >
> >
>

[Gail]

Well Scott, in short it means, "Rationalization is like Masturbation. You
only fuck yourself".
Hope that helps...;)

Scott Davis wrote:
> Hunh? RR and MM? Whassat?
>
> -- Scott.
>
>
>
>
>
> Bobby L. wrote:
>
>> Don't forget to try RR and MM!
>>
>> Bobby L
>>
>>
>> "Yeah" <kjasd@jklhasd.com> wrote in message
>> news:0yUVa.5708$Cx4.674553@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
>>
>>> Hey, AO!
>>>
>>> I'm a human that has been wrestling with my alcohol (and other)
>>> addictions for the past six months. I've realized that my decade of
>>> drinking (I'm now 30 years old) was not really "fun" and now I'm
>>> trying to find support mechanisms while I battle my 'lizard brain'.
>>>
>>> Personally - I was really distressed about A.A.'s "magical,
>>> mystical" power being so prominent. I am a devout atheist. I was
>>> upset that A.A. was the only 'common' group/support method
>>> available. (I live in Canada/Toronto.)
>>>
>>> I admit, I have never attended an AA meeting so I'm not all that
>>> knowledgable. I didn't believe that the 'solution' would come from
>>> anywhere other than "me" though . Please note, folks: I'm not
>>> advocating that A.A. dosen't have its uses, even for us atheists.
>>> I'm just stating that during the care system selection process, that
>>> "spiritual" stuff dumps it down a few notches, for us heathens, eh?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I want to thank you for posting about AVRT. It seems like a
>>> methodology that will likely be my greatest source of (external)
>>> strength. My counsellor and my MD never mentioned it. None of my
>>> alcoholic friends were even aware of it. I'm off to buy the little
>>> book - thanks again.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Scott.

[Bobby L.]

Actually, RR is Rational Recovery and MM is Moderation Management. While I
have no evidence that either work successfully, I encourage any to try it
who sound like that need a program of their own understanding.

You can info on either on the net. We'll still be here if you make it back.

Bobby L


"Scott Davis" <SDavis@EscTech.ca> wrote in message
news:sZ2Wa.6324$Cx4.788127@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> Hunh? RR and MM? Whassat?
>
> -- Scott.
>
>
>
>
>
> Bobby L. wrote:
>
> > Don't forget to try RR and MM!
> >
> > Bobby L
> >
> >
> > "Yeah" <kjasd@jklhasd.com> wrote in message
> > news:0yUVa.5708$Cx4.674553@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> >
> >>Hey, AO!
> >>
> >>I'm a human that has been wrestling with my alcohol (and other)
> >>addictions for the past six months. I've realized that my decade of
> >>drinking (I'm now 30 years old) was not really "fun" and now I'm trying
> >>to find support mechanisms while I battle my 'lizard brain'.
> >>
> >>Personally - I was really distressed about A.A.'s "magical, mystical"
> >>power being so prominent. I am a devout atheist. I was upset that A.A.
> >>was the only 'common' group/support method available. (I live in
> >>Canada/Toronto.)
> >>
> >>I admit, I have never attended an AA meeting so I'm not all that
> >>knowledgable. I didn't believe that the 'solution' would come from
> >>anywhere other than "me" though . Please note, folks: I'm not
> >>advocating that A.A. dosen't have its uses, even for us atheists. I'm
> >>just stating that during the care system selection process, that
> >>"spiritual" stuff dumps it down a few notches, for us heathens, eh?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>I want to thank you for posting about AVRT. It seems like a methodology
> >>that will likely be my greatest source of (external) strength. My
> >>counsellor and my MD never mentioned it. None of my alcoholic friends
> >>were even aware of it. I'm off to buy the little book - thanks again.
> >>
> >>
> >>-- Scott.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

[Agent_Orange]

Yeah <kjasd@jklhasd.com> wrote in message news:<0yUVa.5708$Cx4.674553@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> Hey, AO!
>
> I'm a human that has been wrestling with my alcohol (and other)
> addictions for the past six months. I've realized that my decade of
> drinking (I'm now 30 years old) was not really "fun" and now I'm trying
> to find support mechanisms while I battle my 'lizard brain'.
>
> Personally - I was really distressed about A.A.'s "magical, mystical"
> power being so prominent. I am a devout atheist. I was upset that A.A.
> was the only 'common' group/support method available. (I live in
> Canada/Toronto.)
>
> I admit, I have never attended an AA meeting so I'm not all that
> knowledgable. I didn't believe that the 'solution' would come from
> anywhere other than "me" though . Please note, folks: I'm not
> advocating that A.A. dosen't have its uses, even for us atheists. I'm
> just stating that during the care system selection process, that
> "spiritual" stuff dumps it down a few notches, for us heathens, eh?
>
>
>
>
> I want to thank you for posting about AVRT. It seems like a methodology
> that will likely be my greatest source of (external) strength. My
> counsellor and my MD never mentioned it. None of my alcoholic friends
> were even aware of it. I'm off to buy the little book - thanks again.
>
>
> -- Scott.

Hi. Good luck, and don't hesitate to call.
And while you are in the mood for books, you might
check out my top 10 list. There are a couple of other
good ones too.

http://aorange1.tripod.com/orange-top10.html

I guess you probably already saw the web page on the
Lizard Brain Addiction Monster, if you saw the stuff
about AVRT. But if not, definitely check this out.
It's been a big part of my staying sober. Read the
list at the bottom daily, and send me your new ones.

http://aorange1.tripod.com/orange-addmonst.html

* Agent Orange *
* agent_orange@linuxmail.org *
* AA and Recovery Cult Debunking *
* http://aorange1.tripod.com/ *
* Heisenberg said, "I'm not really sure if *
* that even was Shrödinger's cat. I think *
* he might have used somebody else's cat..." *

[Agent_Orange]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<C7VVa.5837$0z3.1392@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com>...
>
> I imagine we'll still be here talking about our recovery whenever you find
> out that you can't "white knuckle" it. C'mon back when you find "you" don't
> have the solution. We'll save you a seat.

So, now you are putting hexes on people who want to
quit drinking without A.A.? You are clearly demonstrating
just what an evil cult A.A. really is.

Do you also stick needles into voodoo dolls?

You should be ashamed of yourself.
Do a fourth step and then call your sponsor for a long
fifth step.

* Agent Orange *
* agent_orange@linuxmail.org *
* AA and Recovery Cult Debunking *
* http://aorange1.tripod.com/ *
* True infomation, human intelligence, *
* and Reason are the mortal enemies of *
* cult leaders... *

[Moonraker]

"Agent_Orange" <agent_orange@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:8e728989.0307311732.67a8c644@posting.google.c om...
> "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<C7VVa.5837$0z3.1392@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com>...
> >
> > I imagine we'll still be here talking about our recovery whenever you
find
> > out that you can't "white knuckle" it. C'mon back when you find "you"
don't
> > have the solution. We'll save you a seat.
>
> So, now you are putting hexes on people who want to
> quit drinking without A.A.?

Hexes? That's a real stretch, even for fringe lunatic like you.


You are clearly demonstrating
> just what an evil cult A.A. really is.

And you are clearly demonstrating what what an idiot you are.

>
> Do you also stick needles into voodoo dolls?

Would you kindly post your picture so I can make a new doll?

>

> Do a fourth step and then call your sponsor for a long
> fifth step.
>
Right after you, bozo.

[Agent_Orange]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<qyjWa.5318$rJ4.2128@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com>...
> Hexes? That's a real stretch, even for fringe lunatic like you.

Yes. Telling someone who is trying to quit and save his
own life that he is going to fail is putting a curse on
him. Not a supernatural curse, a psychological curse, but
a curse none the less. You are encouraging him to fail.

You are wishing for him to fail, just to satisfy your
own vanity and ego.

You could have said something like, "Congratulations on
deciding to get sober. Good going. Good luck. More power
to you. Hang tough, you will make it." But no, you wished
for him to fail.

That is sick.

But that is nothing new. Bill Wilson did the same thing
to a guy who refused to share Bill's religious beliefs.
See:
http://aorange1.tripod.com/orange-bait-switch.html#refusenik

* Agent Orange *
* agent_orange@linuxmail.org *
* AA and Recovery Cult Debunking *
* http://aorange1.tripod.com/ *
* True infomation, human intelligence, *
* and Reason are the mortal enemies of *
* cult leaders... *

[Moonraker]

"Agent_Orange" <agent_orange@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:8e728989.0308011539.24ae55ac@posting.google.c om...
> "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<qyjWa.5318$rJ4.2128@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com>...


> > Hexes? That's a real stretch, even for fringe lunatic like you.
>
I take it back about you being a fringe lunatic. You are way beyond the
fringes.


> Yes. Telling someone who is trying to quit and save his
> own life that he is going to fail is putting a curse on
> him. Not a supernatural curse, a psychological curse, but
> a curse none the less. You are encouraging him to fail.

Now which is it? A hex or a curse? There's a difference.
>
> You are wishing for him to fail, just to satisfy your
> own vanity and ego.

Oh, really? Now your're omniscient, too? You have no idea what my motives
might be.


>But no, you wished
> for him to fail.

Knowing in your heart of hearts that someone is likely to fail given the
path they have chosen is not "wishing".

>
> That is sick.

Yes, you are. Go take your Thorazine.