I am through

[Nora Jones]

Some of you may have remembered my posts in here a month or so ago. Blue
and Moon gave me some very good insights.
I am posting here again because of the latest development with my
Alcoholic SO.
I had foot surgery last week and am pretty much immobile at this time. I
had a post-op appt on Monday...my SO was suppose to take me to the appt.
Well, he never showed, never called..I called him at work only to find
out he never came to work that day. Rescheduled the appt, made other
arrangements ( a $20.00 cab fee) to get to a appt later on in the
day....and no surprise that he still has not called, which I strongly
suspected would be the case. He is so damn predictable, the shame of not
doing the right thing and then the weakness not to stand up to it.and
admit his wrongdoing. I am through with him, so totally through. This is
the behavior of a drinking, drugging weekend, I suppose? I rightly think
so. I want to call him up and cuss his ass off...not long
winded....very, very short to the point.
My God...he could not even take me to my pre-op appt.....do I take this
personnally?...yes, I do. Is that right?..probably not since I am not
the responsible party here for his actions.
That would be the intellectual response, not thinking intelllectually
now...speaking from the heart. Can anyone shed light on this for me?
This is typical alcoholic/drug behavior? This boggles my mind....how
does one sleep at night?..look in the mirror? Or is that when the A just
hits the bottle again? Please forgive me for my ramblings here, but
when I posted before I gained more insights than from any other
resources.
I so respect several of the people in here and there opinions, that is
why I have posted again.
Thank You again.....
Nora

[My Name]

MayaASO@webtv.net (Nora Jones) wrote in news:28123-3F27173B-
766@storefull-2157.public.lawson.webtv.net:

> This is typical alcoholic/drug behavior?

Not in my opinion. In my opinion this is typical irresponsible
behaivior, indicative of the type of person you are dealing
with, not the result of outside influence, although outside
influence can exaxcerbate inner traits by letting them out more
readily due to reduced inhibhitions. You said you suspected this
would be the outcome, and you were right. That says to me, you
know what kind of person you are dealing with, and that person
is there inebriated, or sober. Sorry, truly.

--
You know that some people are different.
Now ain't that a crying shame.
Wouldn't it be a real drag, if we were all the same.
Savoy Brown

[Shawster]

well Ann Landers used to say, "run, don't walk, away from this man" but
since you have a bum paw, you can take a cab.

contrary to My name's opinion, I do think that your SO's selfishness is a
symptom of his drinking. But I wouldn't bother sticking around long enough
to find out.

he has to suffer the consequences of his drinking, or else he will never
change. And one of those consequences seems to be losing a wonderful woman
like yourself. Normally I wouldn't give such direct advice, but you are not
a drunk. I would hate to see you become one of thousands of cases of
domestic violence each week, I really don't need the business.

I sleep at night knowing that I have not put alcohol in my body for a few
days in a row now. my thinking has cleared up, and any times I am selfish
it is usually corrected right away. I am still kicking myself for missing
my friend's band recording session a couple of weeks ago, but I made sure I
have been available to him ever since. I have learned a lot about helping
others, and thinking of others first. I have a higher power that puts me to
use and gives my life meaning.

Do you really want to stick around and wait for that. It took me over 20
months just to get this far, and I still have a long way to go. Why don't
you just wait a few months and then look for a good guy, you'd still be
months ahead.

Rev. Shawster


"Nora Jones" <MayaASO@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:28123-3F27173B-766@storefull-2157.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> Some of you may have remembered my posts in here a month or so ago. Blue
> and Moon gave me some very good insights.
> I am posting here again because of the latest development with my
> Alcoholic SO.
> I had foot surgery last week and am pretty much immobile at this time. I
> had a post-op appt on Monday...my SO was suppose to take me to the appt.
> Well, he never showed, never called..I called him at work only to find
> out he never came to work that day. Rescheduled the appt, made other
> arrangements ( a $20.00 cab fee) to get to a appt later on in the
> day....and no surprise that he still has not called, which I strongly
> suspected would be the case. He is so damn predictable, the shame of not
> doing the right thing and then the weakness not to stand up to it.and
> admit his wrongdoing. I am through with him, so totally through. This is
> the behavior of a drinking, drugging weekend, I suppose? I rightly think
> so. I want to call him up and cuss his ass off...not long
> winded....very, very short to the point.
> My God...he could not even take me to my pre-op appt.....do I take this
> personnally?...yes, I do. Is that right?..probably not since I am not
> the responsible party here for his actions.
> That would be the intellectual response, not thinking intelllectually
> now...speaking from the heart. Can anyone shed light on this for me?
> This is typical alcoholic/drug behavior? This boggles my mind....how
> does one sleep at night?..look in the mirror? Or is that when the A just
> hits the bottle again? Please forgive me for my ramblings here, but
> when I posted before I gained more insights than from any other
> resources.
> I so respect several of the people in here and there opinions, that is
> why I have posted again.
> Thank You again.....
> Nora
>
>

[rosie readandpost]

> This boggles my mind....how
> does one sleep at night?..look in the mirror? Or is that when the A just
> hits the bottle again? Please forgive me for my ramblings here, but
> when I posted before I gained more insights than from any other
> resources.


dear nora,
i KNOW that my husband experienced the same emotions that you are currenting feeling
now.......................((((((((((((((((((((nora ))))))))))))))))))))))
here is one of my favorite passages from the BIG BOOK:

More About Alcoholism
Most of us have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally
different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by
countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and
enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing.
Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.
We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in
recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed.

We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever
recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals usually brief were
inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are
convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we
get worse, never better.



did you read the passage:



"..............which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization"

that DEMORALIZATION led to my eventual sobriety, and my advise is that you let your husband get there, and do WHATEVER
it takes to protect and care for yourself.



rosie

[stuart]

"Nora Jones" <MayaASO@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:28123-3F27173B-766@storefull-2157.public.lawson.webtv.net...

Who we get involved in relationships with says as much about us as it does
the other person, Nora.

Think about that.

[Gail]

stuart wrote:
> "Nora Jones" <MayaASO@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:28123-3F27173B-766@storefull-2157.public.lawson.webtv.net...
>
> Who we get involved in relationships with says as much about us as it
> does the other person, Nora.
>
> Think about that.

Isn't that the truth, Stuart? Unless she gets help for her codependency
and/or address her relationship(s), she will probably leave him and get
another one just like him. I speak from experience....;)
Nora, is he the first alcoholic you have been involved with?
Is alcoholism in your family?
Best,
Gail

[Michael Rapp]

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:54:19 -0400 (EDT), MayaASO@webtv.net (Nora Jones) wrote:

<snip>
-----------------------------------------------
Dear Nora,
does it really matter to you if your SO's behavior is induced by alcohol or due
to any other cause? My main point is, you don't want to put up with it any more,
and that is more than fine with me.
If his behavior is related to alcohol, than he definitely needs to be shown the
consequences of his actions, which in this case would mean a clean break of the
relationship to me. No more excuses, no more forgiving an infamous "last time".
If this is his regular behavior then he is a dumb jerk and you ought to leave
him immediately, because this behavior shows his respect for you: none. And no
human deserves this from somebody else he/ she cares about.
Best wishes for your recovery from your surgery,
Mike.

[rosie readandpost]

>................... because this behavior shows his respect for you: none.


actually, not to "muddy the waters" but.........................

his behavior seems to show that he is choosing/needing "the bottle" over everything and everyone.
its not a matter of "respect" imo.

[rosie readandpost]

> I'm really glad "now" my wife didn't get advise like what you have been
> getting.


i am glad that my husband didn't either!
he DID however get told MANY TIMES to "take care of himself" FIRST!
he hated ALANON, so he struggled along by himself.............

[rosie readandpost]

amen gail, amen!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

learn to recognize the inconsequential, then ignore it.
.....................h. jackson brown jr.




"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:vig0buigpcpu94@corp.supernews.com...
> rosie readandpost wrote:
> >> ................... because this behavior shows his respect for you:
> >> none.
> >
> >
> > actually, not to "muddy the waters" but.........................
> >
> > his behavior seems to show that he is choosing/needing "the bottle"
> > over everything and everyone. its not a matter of "respect" imo.
>
>
> Right! He is a self centered alcoholic. ;)
> I kept picking the same kind of men, hoping for a different result, just
> like with my drinking. I had to get help and take a look at MYSELF and why I
> chose to pick that kind of man or why I would even want to stay in a
> relationship with a drunk who doesn't want to get sober.
> Alanon, CODA and/or counseling is what I would suggest Nora do. Nora, you
> can't change him, but you can change you, your beliefs, actions and
> thinking. Why not give that a go?
> Gail
>
>

[Bobby L.]

"Nora Jones" <MayaASO@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:28123-3F27173B-766@storefull-2157.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> Some of you may have remembered my posts in here a month or so ago. Blue
> and Moon gave me some very good insights.
> I am posting here again because of the latest development with my
> Alcoholic SO.
> I had foot surgery last week and am pretty much immobile at this time. I
> had a post-op appt on Monday...my SO was suppose to take me to the appt.
> Well, he never showed, never called..I called him at work only to find
> out he never came to work that day. Rescheduled the appt, made other
> arrangements ( a $20.00 cab fee) to get to a appt later on in the
> day....and no surprise that he still has not called, which I strongly
> suspected would be the case. He is so damn predictable, the shame of not
> doing the right thing and then the weakness not to stand up to it.and
> admit his wrongdoing. I am through with him, so totally through. This is
> the behavior of a drinking, drugging weekend, I suppose? I rightly think
> so. I want to call him up and cuss his ass off...not long
> winded....very, very short to the point.
> My God...he could not even take me to my pre-op appt.....do I take this
> personnally?...yes, I do. Is that right?..probably not since I am not
> the responsible party here for his actions.
> That would be the intellectual response, not thinking intelllectually
> now...speaking from the heart. Can anyone shed light on this for me?
> This is typical alcoholic/drug behavior? This boggles my mind....how
> does one sleep at night?..look in the mirror? Or is that when the A just
> hits the bottle again? Please forgive me for my ramblings here, but
> when I posted before I gained more insights than from any other
> resources.
> I so respect several of the people in here and there opinions, that is
> why I have posted again.
> Thank You again.....
> Nora
>

Same as to mutt but without the spelling error...
You have two choices -- Accept it - or - Leave. It is that simple.

We'll not fault you either way. Many of us had the same choice and many of
us stayed, so I encourage both of you to ensure the decision is yours. Just
don't fool yourself into believing "you" can fix this. As with many
co-dependents you surely have some things to work on, but the SO is not one
of them.

Bobby L

[stuart]

"Gail" <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vifte6mot97l9e@corp.supernews.com...
> stuart wrote:
> > "Nora Jones" <MayaASO@webtv.net> wrote in message
> > news:28123-3F27173B-766@storefull-2157.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> >
> > Who we get involved in relationships with says as much about us as it
> > does the other person, Nora.
> >
> > Think about that.
>
> Isn't that the truth, Stuart? Unless she gets help for her codependency
> and/or address her relationship(s), she will probably leave him and get
> another one just like him. I speak from experience....;)
> Nora, is he the first alcoholic you have been involved with?
> Is alcoholism in your family?
> Best,
> Gail

If nothing changes, nothing changes. Wherever you may go, there you are.

[Nora Jones]

Thank you all for your reply's.
I have been in this relationship for 11years now. One year ago, he was
"forced" into treatment (court ordered)...he is currently still on
probation and will be so for another year. He was in recovery for six
months, in a treatment program, attending church, bible study and
becoming more involved in the church, etc. During those six months I saw
him really evolving as a person. I don't think he saw it the way others
around him did, but no matter he was actually beginning to come alive! I
never had to wonder if he was going to do something that he made a
promise to or anything of the sort..and then he relapsed...since then it
has really been worse, much worse. First it was the binge drinking and
then gradually the "controlled" drinking. I have spoken to him or at
least tried to on several occasions to get back into treatment, go to
AA...etc, etc. He was always "thinking" about it..making appts to get
back into treatment, not going to the appt...and so the story goes.
So...yes, I have always been very supportive of him, sometimes gently
"pushing" him in that direction..other times calling him very directly
and bluntly on his actions. Have tried it all...to no avail and I am
emotionally tired. His mother has even told me that if I want an
"intervention" to let her know as she knows someone who will do it....I
am really past that, no energy!
I think it was BlueMoon who told me once in a post that a person only
changes when his/her pain becomes intolerable and that level of pain is
different for each person...that struck a real cord with me.
In response to another post, I know my SO and he becomes "selfish" when
under the influence or in the aftermath of it. It breaks my heart , it
really does for what he does to me and what he does to himself. But, it
is now time for me to take care of me....something I can and will do
just fine..as I will nurture myself.
So...I have "gone the distance" with him...and I do pray that some day
he will find the strength, honesty and the courage to do what needs to
be done. But, as always, that is his choice..something I have always
acknowledged...have never believed that I can "change him"....
but, will always pray for him.
Nora

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:54:19 -0400 (EDT), MayaASO@webtv.net (Nora
Jones) wrote:

>He is so damn predictable, the shame of not
>doing the right thing and then the weakness not to stand up to it.and
>admit his wrongdoing. I am through with him, so totally through. This is
>the behavior of a drinking, drugging weekend, I suppose? I rightly think
>so. I want to call him up and cuss his ass off...not long
>winded....very, very short to the point.

Sounds not untypical. If he's in a blackout much of the time, he may
even become unaware he's supposed to be anywhere else.

>My God...he could not even take me to my pre-op appt.....do I take this
>personnally?...yes, I do. Is that right?..probably not since I am not
>the responsible party here for his actions.

No. But you are responsible for your reaction. Same actions tend to
result in the same outcomes, so what's going to be different this
time?

>how does one sleep at night?

For a drinking alcoholic - soundly. It's called "passing out".

>.look in the mirror?

I avoided doing that for a long, long time .... unless I was drunk, in
which case I didn't care.

Life is what you make of it ... so I'm told ;) Still practicing that
one meself.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:20:07 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpostREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>>................... because this behavior shows his respect for you: none.
>
>
>actually, not to "muddy the waters" but.........................
>
>his behavior seems to show that he is choosing/needing "the bottle" over everything and everyone.
>its not a matter of "respect" imo.

For an alcoholic who has yet to find recovery, isn't that always the
way?

--
Blue Moon