Mias
07-29-2003, 01:26 AM
Dear Agent Orange
I do not agree with you and would like your reply to the following, which I
repost from a previous reply to you, that was unanswered. This is very
important to me as you base some of your 'findings' on Jung's belief system.
(Not Shrödinger's)
Dear Agent Orange
If I may quote from 'A walk with a white bushman' about Laurens van der Post
by Jean Marc Pottiez ISBN 0-14-010426-7, page 84:
"All this reminds me very much of one of the last letters I ever had from
Jung, when he wrote, 'I cannot define for you what God is. I can only say
that my work has proved empirically that the pattern of God exists in every
man, and that this pattern has at its disposal the greatest of all energies
for transformation and transfiguration of his natural being.'" and then
Laurens goes on '....but we are so intellectually oriented that this seems a
non-rational, even superstitious thing to do because we persist in the
preposterous illusion that we must know rationally, in advance, where we are
going.'
Quite an interesting insight I should say. Africa has come up with some
surprises if one consider that it has only been around a few million years?
Oh hi - by the way - yeah, I am back...thanks for the wake-up call you gave
me...
Kind regards
Mias
14 years clean and sober and enjoying every second!
"Agent_Orange" <agent_orange@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:8e728989.0306201135.4ff04197@posting.google.c om...
> "Mouse" <notlikely@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<bc3d32762da2d659bcf0d97e46a389fc@news.meganetnews. com>...
> > Hi JJ....good luck.
> >
> > It seems that you are 54 years old and you are now thinking that
"strength
> > and resolve" is going to solve the problem. Did you get more powerful
as
> > you got older? How is your control of your behavior?
> >
>
> Actually, lots of people do get stronger as they get
> older. It's called "learning".
>
>
> * agent_orange@linuxmail.org *
> * AA and Recovery Cult Debunking *
> * http://aorange1.tripod.com/ *
> * Heisenberg said, "I'm not really sure if *
> * that even was Shrödinger's cat. I think *
> * he might have used somebody else's cat..." *
"Agent_Orange" <agent_orange@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:8e728989.0307281522.3e5cfee9@posting.google.c om...
> Today, the A.A. campaign of misinformation continues
> even in the halls of Congress:
>
> "As the fabulously successful twelve-step program pioneered
> by Alcoholics Anonymous has conclusively demonstrated, one
> cannot tackle a crisis until acknowledging the reality of a
> genuine problem."
> -- Statement of John C. Hulsman, Ph..D. Research Fellow for
> European Affairs, the Davis Institute for International
> Studies, The Heritage Foundation. Committee on House
> International Relations Europe Subcommittee June 11, 2003.
>
> I sincerely hope Mr. Hulsman knows more about foreign
> affairs than he knows about alcoholism treatment programs,
> or else we are liable to find ourselves in a quagmire of
> unwinnable foreign wars...
>
> * Agent Orange *
> * agent_orange@linuxmail.org *
> * AA and Recovery Cult Debunking *
> * http://aorange1.tripod.com/ *
> * True infomation, human intelligence, *
> * and Reason are the mortal enemies of *
> * cult leaders... *
"Agent_Orange" <agent_orange@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:8e728989.0307281513.61d3b71a@posting.google.c om...
> Bill Wilson quoted Dr. Harry M. Tiebout quoting Bill
> Wilson, as if that would add authority to Bill's faked
> numbers:
>
> "Alcoholics Anonymous claims a recovery rate of 75 percent
> of those who really try their methods. This figure, coupled
> with their mushroom growth, commands respect and demands
> explanation."
> [Reprinted from The American Journal of Psychiatry, January
> 1944, "Therapeutic Mechanism of Alcoholics Anonymous".]
> -- Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age, William G. Wilson,
> page 310.
>
> Actually, such a figure commands contempt and derision,
> because it is a bare-faced lie. Alcoholics Anonymous never
> had a success rate anything like that. Notice how Tiebout
> repeated Bill Wilson's grossly inflated and exaggerated
> claims of success as if they were true facts, and even
> cited them in professional journals. That is the Big Lie
> technique, one more time again. (Also notice how cleverly
> Tiebout covered his own ass: He started off by saying that
> A.A. merely claimed to have a 75% success rate -- a rate
> which Tiebout had to know was totally untrue, because
> Tiebout was Bill's psychiatrist, and Tiebout had a number
> of other patients in A.A., too, so he could see what was
> going on. But then Tiebout just accepted Bill's grossly
> exaggerated claims as correct, and declared that they
> "commanded respect and demanded explanation". If anyone
> called Tiebout on it later by pointing out just how
> inaccurate those numbers really were, Tiebout could always
> just pass the buck to A.A., and say that he was just using
> their numbers.)
>
> * Agent Orange *
> * agent_orange@linuxmail.org *
> * AA and Recovery Cult Debunking *
> * http://aorange1.tripod.com/ *
> * True infomation, human intelligence, *
> * and Reason are the mortal enemies of *
> * cult leaders... *
I do not agree with you and would like your reply to the following, which I
repost from a previous reply to you, that was unanswered. This is very
important to me as you base some of your 'findings' on Jung's belief system.
(Not Shrödinger's)
Dear Agent Orange
If I may quote from 'A walk with a white bushman' about Laurens van der Post
by Jean Marc Pottiez ISBN 0-14-010426-7, page 84:
"All this reminds me very much of one of the last letters I ever had from
Jung, when he wrote, 'I cannot define for you what God is. I can only say
that my work has proved empirically that the pattern of God exists in every
man, and that this pattern has at its disposal the greatest of all energies
for transformation and transfiguration of his natural being.'" and then
Laurens goes on '....but we are so intellectually oriented that this seems a
non-rational, even superstitious thing to do because we persist in the
preposterous illusion that we must know rationally, in advance, where we are
going.'
Quite an interesting insight I should say. Africa has come up with some
surprises if one consider that it has only been around a few million years?
Oh hi - by the way - yeah, I am back...thanks for the wake-up call you gave
me...
Kind regards
Mias
14 years clean and sober and enjoying every second!
"Agent_Orange" <agent_orange@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:8e728989.0306201135.4ff04197@posting.google.c om...
> "Mouse" <notlikely@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<bc3d32762da2d659bcf0d97e46a389fc@news.meganetnews. com>...
> > Hi JJ....good luck.
> >
> > It seems that you are 54 years old and you are now thinking that
"strength
> > and resolve" is going to solve the problem. Did you get more powerful
as
> > you got older? How is your control of your behavior?
> >
>
> Actually, lots of people do get stronger as they get
> older. It's called "learning".
>
>
> * agent_orange@linuxmail.org *
> * AA and Recovery Cult Debunking *
> * http://aorange1.tripod.com/ *
> * Heisenberg said, "I'm not really sure if *
> * that even was Shrödinger's cat. I think *
> * he might have used somebody else's cat..." *
"Agent_Orange" <agent_orange@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:8e728989.0307281522.3e5cfee9@posting.google.c om...
> Today, the A.A. campaign of misinformation continues
> even in the halls of Congress:
>
> "As the fabulously successful twelve-step program pioneered
> by Alcoholics Anonymous has conclusively demonstrated, one
> cannot tackle a crisis until acknowledging the reality of a
> genuine problem."
> -- Statement of John C. Hulsman, Ph..D. Research Fellow for
> European Affairs, the Davis Institute for International
> Studies, The Heritage Foundation. Committee on House
> International Relations Europe Subcommittee June 11, 2003.
>
> I sincerely hope Mr. Hulsman knows more about foreign
> affairs than he knows about alcoholism treatment programs,
> or else we are liable to find ourselves in a quagmire of
> unwinnable foreign wars...
>
> * Agent Orange *
> * agent_orange@linuxmail.org *
> * AA and Recovery Cult Debunking *
> * http://aorange1.tripod.com/ *
> * True infomation, human intelligence, *
> * and Reason are the mortal enemies of *
> * cult leaders... *
"Agent_Orange" <agent_orange@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:8e728989.0307281513.61d3b71a@posting.google.c om...
> Bill Wilson quoted Dr. Harry M. Tiebout quoting Bill
> Wilson, as if that would add authority to Bill's faked
> numbers:
>
> "Alcoholics Anonymous claims a recovery rate of 75 percent
> of those who really try their methods. This figure, coupled
> with their mushroom growth, commands respect and demands
> explanation."
> [Reprinted from The American Journal of Psychiatry, January
> 1944, "Therapeutic Mechanism of Alcoholics Anonymous".]
> -- Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age, William G. Wilson,
> page 310.
>
> Actually, such a figure commands contempt and derision,
> because it is a bare-faced lie. Alcoholics Anonymous never
> had a success rate anything like that. Notice how Tiebout
> repeated Bill Wilson's grossly inflated and exaggerated
> claims of success as if they were true facts, and even
> cited them in professional journals. That is the Big Lie
> technique, one more time again. (Also notice how cleverly
> Tiebout covered his own ass: He started off by saying that
> A.A. merely claimed to have a 75% success rate -- a rate
> which Tiebout had to know was totally untrue, because
> Tiebout was Bill's psychiatrist, and Tiebout had a number
> of other patients in A.A., too, so he could see what was
> going on. But then Tiebout just accepted Bill's grossly
> exaggerated claims as correct, and declared that they
> "commanded respect and demanded explanation". If anyone
> called Tiebout on it later by pointing out just how
> inaccurate those numbers really were, Tiebout could always
> just pass the buck to A.A., and say that he was just using
> their numbers.)
>
> * Agent Orange *
> * agent_orange@linuxmail.org *
> * AA and Recovery Cult Debunking *
> * http://aorange1.tripod.com/ *
> * True infomation, human intelligence, *
> * and Reason are the mortal enemies of *
> * cult leaders... *