Define alcoholism

[None]

Hi to all;

I am new to this group and have been living/dealing with an alcoholic for 3
years now. Trouble is, he doesn't see himself as such, doesn't believe he is
one (prefers to be referred to as a 'heavy drinker'). He has just been
released from hospital after going through treatment for cirrhosis (which
nearly killed him but has no recollection of his withdrawal while there) and
seems to be doing very well; hasn't had a drink in 2 months but he's only
been home for 3 days now. He is on anti-depressants which are helping. He
seems boggled up with terminology at this point and isn't convinced he is an
alcoholic. While the question may seem self-evident to most of you, I find
that there are so many definitions that it gets confusing. One doctor told
me that 3 drinks a day or more qualifies as such, but there are many more
definitions out there. I'm also currently reading a book entitled "Beyond
the Influence: Understanding & Defeating Alchoholism; in it, there are
differences/nuances between the levels/stages of drinking.

I am, by the way, of the belief that it is a disease. Problem seems to be in
identifying the true alcoholic as opposed to the heavy drinker or social
drinker. I'm not holding any illusions here for him as I'm quite clear in my
mind that he does have the disease, but I thought it a good subject for
discussion and my starting post.

1.) Please define exactly what an alcoholic is to the best of your
knowledge...

2.) If you do think of yourself as an alcoholic, how do you cope with the
accompanying stigma?

Thank you,

F

[Robert McGregor]

"None" <noneofyourbusiness@whocares.com> wrote in message
news:Naydndlpd_b6sm7cRVn-gw@look.ca...
> Hi to all;
>
> I am new to this group and have been living/dealing with an
> alcoholic for 3 years now. Trouble is, he doesn't see himself as
> such, doesn't believe he is one (prefers to be referred to as a
> 'heavy drinker'). He has just been released from hospital after
> going through treatment for cirrhosis (which nearly killed him but
> has no recollection of his withdrawal while there) and seems to be
> doing very well; hasn't had a drink in 2 months but he's only been
> home for 3 days now. He is on anti-depressants which are helping.
> He seems boggled up with terminology at this point and isn't
> convinced he is an alcoholic. While the question may seem
> self-evident to most of you, I find that there are so many
> definitions that it gets confusing. One doctor told me that 3
> drinks a day or more qualifies as such, but there are many more
> definitions out there. I'm also currently reading a book entitled
> "Beyond the Influence: Understanding & Defeating Alchoholism; in
> it, there are differences/nuances between the levels/stages of
> drinking.
>
> I am, by the way, of the belief that it is a disease. Problem seems
> to be in identifying the true alcoholic as opposed to the heavy
> drinker or social drinker. I'm not holding any illusions here for
> him as I'm quite clear in my mind that he does have the disease,
> but I thought it a good subject for discussion and my starting
> post.
>
> 1.) Please define exactly what an alcoholic is to the best of your
> knowledge...
>
> 2.) If you do think of yourself as an alcoholic, how do you cope
> with the accompanying stigma?
>

To the best of my knowledge, since the late 1930s, AA has maintained
the most accurate definition of alcoholism in it's book, Alcoholics
Anonymous, the inexplicable craving *after* taking a drink :-
http://silkworth.net/bb/doctorsopinion.html

"We believe, and so suggested a few years ago, that the action
of alcohol on these chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an
allergy; that the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and
never occurs in the average temperate drinker
.................................................. .......

........................ The classification of alcoholics seems most
difficult, and in much detail is outside the scope of this book.
There are, of course, the psychopaths who are emotionally unstable.
We are familiar with this type. They are always "going on the wagon
for keeps They are over-remorseful and make many resolutions, but
never a decision.
There is the type of man who is unwilling to admit that he
cannot take a drink. He plans various ways of drinking. He changes
his brand or his environment. There is the type who always believes
that after being entirely free from alcohol for a period of time he
can take a drink without danger. There is the manic-depressive type,
who is, perhaps the least understood by his friends, and about whom a
whole chapter could be written.
Then there are types entirely normal in every respect except in
the effect alcohol has upon them. They are often able, intelligent,
friendly people.
All these, and many others, have one symptom in common: they
cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving.
This phenomenon, as we have suggested, may be the manifestation of an
allergy which differentiates these people, and sets them apart as a
distinct entity. It has never been, by any treatment with which we
are familiar, permanently eradicated. The only relief we have to
suggest is entire abstinence. "

As a result of the 12 steps originating in A.A., I am a recovered
alcoholic. Nevertheless, when I was drinking, access to alcohol was
far more important to me than any presumed stigma.

I suggest you contact Al-Anon, http://www.ola-is.org/index.htm for a
better understanding of, and solution to, your own dillemma.

Bob

[Bobby L]

"None" <noneofyourbusiness@whocares.com> wrote in message
news:Naydndlpd_b6sm7cRVn-gw@look.ca...
> Hi to all;
>
> I am new to this group and have been living/dealing with an alcoholic for
3
> years now. Trouble is, he doesn't see himself as such, doesn't believe he
is
> one (prefers to be referred to as a 'heavy drinker'). He has just been
> released from hospital after going through treatment for cirrhosis (which
> nearly killed him but has no recollection of his withdrawal while there)
and
> seems to be doing very well; hasn't had a drink in 2 months but he's only
> been home for 3 days now. He is on anti-depressants which are helping. He
> seems boggled up with terminology at this point and isn't convinced he is
an
> alcoholic. While the question may seem self-evident to most of you, I find
> that there are so many definitions that it gets confusing. One doctor told
> me that 3 drinks a day or more qualifies as such, but there are many more
> definitions out there. I'm also currently reading a book entitled "Beyond
> the Influence: Understanding & Defeating Alchoholism; in it, there are
> differences/nuances between the levels/stages of drinking.
>
> I am, by the way, of the belief that it is a disease. Problem seems to be
in
> identifying the true alcoholic as opposed to the heavy drinker or social
> drinker. I'm not holding any illusions here for him as I'm quite clear in
my
> mind that he does have the disease, but I thought it a good subject for
> discussion and my starting post.
>
> 1.) Please define exactly what an alcoholic is to the best of your
> knowledge...
>
> 2.) If you do think of yourself as an alcoholic, how do you cope with the
> accompanying stigma?
>
> Thank you,
>
> F
>
>

It is less about how much, and more about how.

There's a stimga?

Bobby L

[None]

Bob;

thanks for the link and detailed answer. Your advice to contact Al-Anon is
good, I've started last week. Perhaps I am in the wrong group, but I figure
that having a "recovering/recovered" point of view couldn't hurt.

Bobby L.: thank you also for your reply.

F


"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:35gtedF4j0asqU1@individual.net...
> "None" <noneofyourbusiness@whocares.com> wrote in message
> news:Naydndlpd_b6sm7cRVn-gw@look.ca...
>> Hi to all;
>>
>> I am new to this group and have been living/dealing with an alcoholic for
>> 3 years now. Trouble is, he doesn't see himself as such, doesn't believe
>> he is one (prefers to be referred to as a 'heavy drinker'). He has just
>> been released from hospital after going through treatment for cirrhosis
>> (which nearly killed him but has no recollection of his withdrawal while
>> there) and seems to be doing very well; hasn't had a drink in 2 months
>> but he's only been home for 3 days now. He is on anti-depressants which
>> are helping. He seems boggled up with terminology at this point and isn't
>> convinced he is an alcoholic. While the question may seem self-evident to
>> most of you, I find that there are so many definitions that it gets
>> confusing. One doctor told me that 3 drinks a day or more qualifies as
>> such, but there are many more definitions out there. I'm also currently
>> reading a book entitled "Beyond the Influence: Understanding & Defeating
>> Alchoholism; in it, there are differences/nuances between the
>> levels/stages of drinking.
>>
>> I am, by the way, of the belief that it is a disease. Problem seems to be
>> in identifying the true alcoholic as opposed to the heavy drinker or
>> social drinker. I'm not holding any illusions here for him as I'm quite
>> clear in my mind that he does have the disease, but I thought it a good
>> subject for discussion and my starting post.
>>
>> 1.) Please define exactly what an alcoholic is to the best of your
>> knowledge...
>>
>> 2.) If you do think of yourself as an alcoholic, how do you cope with the
>> accompanying stigma?
>>
>
> To the best of my knowledge, since the late 1930s, AA has maintained the
> most accurate definition of alcoholism in it's book, Alcoholics Anonymous,
> the inexplicable craving *after* taking a drink :-
> http://silkworth.net/bb/doctorsopinion.html
>
> "We believe, and so suggested a few years ago, that the action of
> alcohol on these chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy; that
> the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the
> average temperate drinker
> .................................................. ......
>
> ........................ The classification of alcoholics seems most
> difficult, and in much detail is outside the scope of this book. There
> are, of course, the psychopaths who are emotionally unstable. We are
> familiar with this type. They are always "going on the wagon for keeps
> They are over-remorseful and make many resolutions, but never a decision.
> There is the type of man who is unwilling to admit that he cannot
> take a drink. He plans various ways of drinking. He changes his brand or
> his environment. There is the type who always believes that after being
> entirely free from alcohol for a period of time he can take a drink
> without danger. There is the manic-depressive type, who is, perhaps the
> least understood by his friends, and about whom a whole chapter could be
> written.
> Then there are types entirely normal in every respect except in the
> effect alcohol has upon them. They are often able, intelligent, friendly
> people.
> All these, and many others, have one symptom in common: they cannot
> start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving. This
> phenomenon, as we have suggested, may be the manifestation of an allergy
> which differentiates these people, and sets them apart as a distinct
> entity. It has never been, by any treatment with which we are familiar,
> permanently eradicated. The only relief we have to suggest is entire
> abstinence. "
>
> As a result of the 12 steps originating in A.A., I am a recovered
> alcoholic. Nevertheless, when I was drinking, access to alcohol was far
> more important to me than any presumed stigma.
>
> I suggest you contact Al-Anon, http://www.ola-is.org/index.htm for a
> better understanding of, and solution to, your own dillemma.
>
> Bob
>

[George &The Dragon]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message

<snip>
>... the inexplicable craving *after* taking a drink
<snip>

I've been around for some time now but have never seen it put quite like
that.

Yet I agree. That is exactly how it feels when I drink. I can go for days,
weeks, months, years (not often - the Dragon tends to get me first). But
when I'm stupid enough to take that first drink, everything changes, and I
find I can think of little else except how soon I can get the next one.
You're right.. the craving starts *after* taking the drink.

<clink>
(sound of another penny dropping)

George


& the Dragon

[John Royer]

To me an alcoholic is a person who continues to drink despite the negative
consequences.

As far as carrying a stima? I agree what stigma? Earth people carry stigmas,
we are free.
"Bobby L" <BobbyL2000spam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:N3NId.89615$zy6.45410@bignews5.bellsouth.net. ..
>
> "None" <noneofyourbusiness@whocares.com> wrote in message
> news:Naydndlpd_b6sm7cRVn-gw@look.ca...
>> Hi to all;
>>
>> I am new to this group and have been living/dealing with an alcoholic for
> 3
>> years now. Trouble is, he doesn't see himself as such, doesn't believe he
> is
>> one (prefers to be referred to as a 'heavy drinker'). He has just been
>> released from hospital after going through treatment for cirrhosis (which
>> nearly killed him but has no recollection of his withdrawal while there)
> and
>> seems to be doing very well; hasn't had a drink in 2 months but he's only
>> been home for 3 days now. He is on anti-depressants which are helping. He
>> seems boggled up with terminology at this point and isn't convinced he is
> an
>> alcoholic. While the question may seem self-evident to most of you, I
>> find
>> that there are so many definitions that it gets confusing. One doctor
>> told
>> me that 3 drinks a day or more qualifies as such, but there are many more
>> definitions out there. I'm also currently reading a book entitled "Beyond
>> the Influence: Understanding & Defeating Alchoholism; in it, there are
>> differences/nuances between the levels/stages of drinking.
>>
>> I am, by the way, of the belief that it is a disease. Problem seems to be
> in
>> identifying the true alcoholic as opposed to the heavy drinker or social
>> drinker. I'm not holding any illusions here for him as I'm quite clear in
> my
>> mind that he does have the disease, but I thought it a good subject for
>> discussion and my starting post.
>>
>> 1.) Please define exactly what an alcoholic is to the best of your
>> knowledge...
>>
>> 2.) If you do think of yourself as an alcoholic, how do you cope with the
>> accompanying stigma?
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> F
>>
>>
>
> It is less about how much, and more about how.
>
> There's a stimga?
>
> Bobby L
>
>
>

[Mike]

>
>
> To the best of my knowledge, since the late 1930s, AA has maintained
> the most accurate definition of alcoholism in it's book, Alcoholics
> Anonymous, the inexplicable craving *after* taking a drink :-
> http://silkworth.net/bb/doctorsopinion.html

Actually, there have been many newer definitions, of course this is
getting into a technical definition. Here is one of them from the early
90's.

1993 American Society of Addiction Medicine
Alcoholism is a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychological and
environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations.
The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by
continuous or periodic impaired control over drinking, preoccupation
with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and
distortions of thinking, most notably denial…

Of course the best definition of "Disease" I work with is "an
involuntary disability". I believe Father Martin came up with that one,
but I think it works very well for the concept of alcoholism as a disease.

Just m2c.

[Paul]

Sorry, alcoholism is NOT a disease.

"Alcohol dependence" and "alcohol addiciton" are valid scientific terms, but
"alcoholism" is not. The "Rocovery Movement" industry may want you to think
otherwise, but they have a very great financial interest in doing so.

[DaveB]

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:29:39 GMT, Paul <paul@vortex.org> wrote:

>Sorry, alcoholism is NOT a disease.
>
>"Alcohol dependence" and "alcohol addiciton" are valid scientific terms, but
>"alcoholism" is not. The "Rocovery Movement" industry may want you to think
>otherwise, but they have a very great financial interest in doing so.
>

Damn, I been going to AA for quite a few years , not a bad deal, biut
a buck a meeting.

Sure beats the $30,000 in drunk driving , time in prison, lost jobs.

Maybe I will start giving em 2 bucks a meeting lets see 7 years at few
bucks a week.

Works for me

Keep it Simple

Regards
>

Daveb

[Paul]

DaveB wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:29:39 GMT, Paul <paul@vortex.org> wrote:
>
>>Sorry, alcoholism is NOT a disease.
>>
>>"Alcohol dependence" and "alcohol addiciton" are valid scientific terms, but
>>"alcoholism" is not. The "Rocovery Movement" industry may want you to think
>>otherwise, but they have a very great financial interest in doing so.
>>
>
>Damn, I been going to AA for quite a few years , not a bad deal, biut
>a buck a meeting.

Yeah, and think of all the coffee you've drunk and comraderie in the smoky
basements.

>
>Sure beats the $30,000 in drunk driving , time in prison, lost jobs.

Well, I was obviously referring to the Betty Ford and Hazelton type clinics.
Big bucks there. Right around the $30,000 mark maybe, huh?

>
>Maybe I will start giving em 2 bucks a meeting lets see 7 years at few
>bucks a week.
>
>Works for me
>
>Keep it Simple

If you truly follow your words of wisdom, then isn't it even simpler to simply
not drink anymore and not go to any more AA meetings?

If you go to the meetings for companionship or comraderie, I guess that's fine,
but maybe you should consider associating with people who don't feel the need
to perpetually recount the experiences of the past and who live in constant
fear of failure. You apparently realized long ago you had a problem with
alcohol. You just haven't been able to commit to total abstinance. Once you do
that, you've solved your alcohol problem for good. You don't need AA meetings.
In fact, they are the reason you are still "recovering" rather than being
"recovered". You may have other problems remaining, but those are solvable once
the alcohol problem is gone.

>
>Regards
>>
>
>Daveb

[DaveB]

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 03:29:59 GMT, Paul <paul@vortex.org> wrote:

>
>
>
>DaveB wrote:
>>On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:29:39 GMT, Paul <paul@vortex.org> wrote:
>>
>>>Sorry, alcoholism is NOT a disease.
>>>
>>>"Alcohol dependence" and "alcohol addiciton" are valid scientific terms, but
>>>"alcoholism" is not. The "Rocovery Movement" industry may want you to think
>>>otherwise, but they have a very great financial interest in doing so.
>>>
>>
>>Damn, I been going to AA for quite a few years , not a bad deal, biut
>>a buck a meeting.
>
>Yeah, and think of all the coffee you've drunk and comraderie in the smoky
>basements.
>
>>
>>Sure beats the $30,000 in drunk driving , time in prison, lost jobs.
>
>Well, I was obviously referring to the Betty Ford and Hazelton type clinics.
>Big bucks there. Right around the $30,000 mark maybe, huh?
>
>>
>>Maybe I will start giving em 2 bucks a meeting lets see 7 years at few
>>bucks a week.
>>
>>Works for me
>>
>>Keep it Simple
>
>If you truly follow your words of wisdom, then isn't it even simpler to simply
>not drink anymore and not go to any more AA meetings?
>
>If you go to the meetings for companionship or comraderie, I guess that's fine,
>but maybe you should consider associating with people who don't feel the need
>to perpetually recount the experiences of the past and who live in constant
>fear of failure. You apparently realized long ago you had a problem with
>alcohol. You just haven't been able to commit to total abstinance. Once you do
>that, you've solved your alcohol problem for good. You don't need AA meetings.
>In fact, they are the reason you are still "recovering" rather than being
>"recovered". You may have other problems remaining, but those are solvable once
>the alcohol problem is gone.
>
>>
>>Regards
>>>
>>
>>Daveb

The main reason I go to meetings is to be of service and help others
that wish to stop drinking.

Most people in California at least are introduced to AA thru the
courts as I was and really want to find a way to stop drinking.

If my only problems was being a drunk and now being sober I wouldnt
bother with meetings.

I have problems living life on lifes terms as my head tells me its ok
to drink, use drugs, steal your money, and try to get your wife in
bed.

I havnt done any of that since I got sober, but I know I have it in me
if I get the right combinations together.

Yeah your right, I am a thief, I lie and steal and indulge myself in
anything that makes me feel good.

So its easier for me to go to a few meetings a week, hang with people
just like me , we have something in common, we dont live like that
anymore.

Regards
>

Daveb

[Paul]

DaveB wrote:
>On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 03:29:59 GMT, Paul <paul@vortex.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>DaveB wrote:
>>>On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:29:39 GMT, Paul <paul@vortex.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Sorry, alcoholism is NOT a disease.
>>>>
>>>>"Alcohol dependence" and "alcohol addiciton" are valid scientific terms,
>>>>but
>>>>"alcoholism" is not. The "Rocovery Movement" industry may want you to think
>>>>otherwise, but they have a very great financial interest in doing so.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Damn, I been going to AA for quite a few years , not a bad deal, biut
>>>a buck a meeting.
>>
>>Yeah, and think of all the coffee you've drunk and comraderie in the smoky
>>basements.
>>
>>>
>>>Sure beats the $30,000 in drunk driving , time in prison, lost jobs.
>>
>>Well, I was obviously referring to the Betty Ford and Hazelton type clinics.
>>Big bucks there. Right around the $30,000 mark maybe, huh?
>>
>>>
>>>Maybe I will start giving em 2 bucks a meeting lets see 7 years at few
>>>bucks a week.
>>>
>>>Works for me
>>>
>>>Keep it Simple
>>
>>If you truly follow your words of wisdom, then isn't it even simpler to
>>simply
>>not drink anymore and not go to any more AA meetings?
>>
>>If you go to the meetings for companionship or comraderie, I guess that's
>>fine,
>>but maybe you should consider associating with people who don't feel the need
>>to perpetually recount the experiences of the past and who live in constant
>>fear of failure. You apparently realized long ago you had a problem with
>>alcohol. You just haven't been able to commit to total abstinance. Once you
>>do
>>that, you've solved your alcohol problem for good. You don't need AA
>>meetings.
>>In fact, they are the reason you are still "recovering" rather than being
>>"recovered". You may have other problems remaining, but those are solvable
>>once
>>the alcohol problem is gone.
>>
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>>
>>>
>>>Daveb
>
>The main reason I go to meetings is to be of service and help others
>that wish to stop drinking.
>
>Most people in California at least are introduced to AA thru the
>courts as I was and really want to find a way to stop drinking.
>
>If my only problems was being a drunk and now being sober I wouldnt
>bother with meetings.
>
>I have problems living life on lifes terms as my head tells me its ok
>to drink, use drugs, steal your money, and try to get your wife in
>bed.
>
>I havnt done any of that since I got sober, but I know I have it in me
>if I get the right combinations together.
>
>Yeah your right, I am a thief, I lie and steal and indulge myself in
>anything that makes me feel good.
>
>So its easier for me to go to a few meetings a week, hang with people
>just like me , we have something in common, we dont live like that
>anymore.
>
>Regards
>>
>
>Daveb

Since you're in California, why not drive over to the Rational Recovery home.
It's about an hour east of Sacramento on the way to Reno. You could talk to
Jack Trimpey and his wife Lois. Someone with a dedication to helping others
with alcohol problems would be welcome there.

I think I'm going to disappear from this group for a while. Today, I've had a
ball responding to numerous posts, and its time to move on. Bye. (I may check
back for just a little bit to respond to any of the responders to the notes I
posted, if it seems interesting.)

[DaveB]

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 04:17:29 GMT, Paul <paul@vortex.org> wrote:

>DaveB wrote:
>>On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 03:29:59 GMT, Paul <paul@vortex.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>DaveB wrote:
>>>>On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:29:39 GMT, Paul <paul@vortex.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Sorry, alcoholism is NOT a disease.
>>>>>
>>>>>"Alcohol dependence" and "alcohol addiciton" are valid scientific terms,
>>>>>but
>>>>>"alcoholism" is not. The "Rocovery Movement" industry may want you to think
>>>>>otherwise, but they have a very great financial interest in doing so.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Damn, I been going to AA for quite a few years , not a bad deal, biut
>>>>a buck a meeting.
>>>
>>>Yeah, and think of all the coffee you've drunk and comraderie in the smoky
>>>basements.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sure beats the $30,000 in drunk driving , time in prison, lost jobs.
>>>
>>>Well, I was obviously referring to the Betty Ford and Hazelton type clinics.
>>>Big bucks there. Right around the $30,000 mark maybe, huh?
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Maybe I will start giving em 2 bucks a meeting lets see 7 years at few
>>>>bucks a week.
>>>>
>>>>Works for me
>>>>
>>>>Keep it Simple
>>>
>>>If you truly follow your words of wisdom, then isn't it even simpler to
>>>simply
>>>not drink anymore and not go to any more AA meetings?
>>>
>>>If you go to the meetings for companionship or comraderie, I guess that's
>>>fine,
>>>but maybe you should consider associating with people who don't feel the need
>>>to perpetually recount the experiences of the past and who live in constant
>>>fear of failure. You apparently realized long ago you had a problem with
>>>alcohol. You just haven't been able to commit to total abstinance. Once you
>>>do
>>>that, you've solved your alcohol problem for good. You don't need AA
>>>meetings.
>>>In fact, they are the reason you are still "recovering" rather than being
>>>"recovered". You may have other problems remaining, but those are solvable
>>>once
>>>the alcohol problem is gone.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Regards
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Daveb
>>
>>The main reason I go to meetings is to be of service and help others
>>that wish to stop drinking.
>>
>>Most people in California at least are introduced to AA thru the
>>courts as I was and really want to find a way to stop drinking.
>>
>>If my only problems was being a drunk and now being sober I wouldnt
>>bother with meetings.
>>
>>I have problems living life on lifes terms as my head tells me its ok
>>to drink, use drugs, steal your money, and try to get your wife in
>>bed.
>>
>>I havnt done any of that since I got sober, but I know I have it in me
>>if I get the right combinations together.
>>
>>Yeah your right, I am a thief, I lie and steal and indulge myself in
>>anything that makes me feel good.
>>
>>So its easier for me to go to a few meetings a week, hang with people
>>just like me , we have something in common, we dont live like that
>>anymore.
>>
>>Regards
>>>
>>
>>Daveb
>
>Since you're in California, why not drive over to the Rational Recovery home.
>It's about an hour east of Sacramento on the way to Reno. You could talk to
>Jack Trimpey and his wife Lois. Someone with a dedication to helping others
>with alcohol problems would be welcome there.
>
>I think I'm going to disappear from this group for a while. Today, I've had a
>ball responding to numerous posts, and its time to move on. Bye. (I may check
>back for just a little bit to respond to any of the responders to the notes I
>posted, if it seems interesting.)


Reno?? lol...................... I have a gambling addiction also.

But I have replaced all my other addictions with
G........O.........L.......F.

Take Care

>

Daveb

[John Droge]

"Paul" <paul@vortex.org> wrote in message
news:td34e.9992$7u3.4229@fe02.lga...

>
> I think I'm going to disappear from this group for a while. Today, I've
had a
> ball responding to numerous posts, and its time to move on. Bye. (I may
check
> back for just a little bit to respond to any of the responders to the
notes I
> posted, if it seems interesting.)
>
Say Paul
You didn't happen to graduate from a prestigious European University did
you? Do you now teach at a Major Midwestern University? Enquiring minds want
to know.
Peace
John

[Mias]

"Paul" <paul@vortex.org> wrote in message
news:Xw24e.9935$NG3.9248@fe02.lga...
> If you go to the meetings for companionship or comraderie, I guess that's
> fine,
> but maybe you should consider associating with people who don't feel the
> need
> to perpetually recount the experiences of the past and who live in
> constant
> fear of failure.
Dear Paul - you are right. I stopped once on willpower and thinking 'I am
finished with alcohol' and yes - I did live in constant fear of failure, as
you put it above describing people who do not recount the experiences.
Those seven years were hell and wasted time.
When I recount my past failures I get a warm fuzzy feeling of gratefulness
that people and God, as I understand Him, have forgiven me and that it is
behind me. I sometimes feel I might just be inspiring another suffering
alcoholic to take the leap into sobriety and if I can cause one human to
become sober I will achieve a lot.
Kind regards
Mias