Some advice please [Archive] - Drug & Alcohol Rehab Forums & News

lmk

01-08-2005, 09:24 AM

Congrats and welcome! You CAN NOT stay sober by your will power. The
disease is much stronger than you and will win unless you follow certain
suggestions....in other words join an AA group ASAP. I had the shakes
well into my fourth month sober. The anxiety and nervous tension lasted
close to a year. I tried quitting on my own too and that didn't work out
very well. The cravings and obseesion were too much for me and ALWAYS won
out. In AA I found people who were just like me and had been exactly
where I was. Through thier unconditional love and support I am now 2.5
years sober. This is a spriritual as well as a physical & mental disease.
I also recommend that your wife attend Al-Anon meetings; this will help
her out tremendously...she is as sick as you are. Remember the disease of
alcoholism affects everyone around you...like a tornado it catches and
spins all who love you along with you and your disease. You tried group
therapy and didn't like it, give AA a chance. Go sit and listen (not just
one mtg but a few). Find a sponsor who will be with you every step of the
way. This will be the hardest endeavor you have ever taken on. It is not
easy but there is a solution IF you are just willing to try. I also want
to mention that it takes about 2-4 years for the effects of alcohol abuse
to go away. There will be many other things besides the shakes that
you'll have to contend with. You can't heal a body & mind that has been
abused for years over night. I'll pray for you and your recovery. I have
never been happier and more at peace with myself and the world as I am now
in recovery.

rosie readandpost

01-08-2005, 09:30 AM

WILLPOWER never got me anywhere...........................
how about getting yourself to an AA meeting?
lots of folks there shaking just like you!
(((((((((((((((((((phil)))))))))))))))))))))
--
rosie

http://img77.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img77&image=dcp00106wk.jpg
"Di & Phil Martin" <diaphi@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:YkNDd.27344$C8.26391@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.u k...
: Hi all,
:
: I have now stopped drinking for 4 days now and am beginning to
wonder when
: the shakes will stop. I am doing this off my own back and am
making life
: hell for my wife. I tried group therapy once and did not enjoy it
so am
: trying through this group and my own will power. If anyone has any
advice or
: help I would be most grateful.
:
: Phil
:
:

Dan McGown

01-08-2005, 09:54 AM

"Di & Phil Martin" <diaphi@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:YkNDd.27344$C8.26391@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.u k...
> Hi all,
>
> I have now stopped drinking for 4 days now and am beginning to wonder when
> the shakes will stop. I am doing this off my own back and am making life
> hell for my wife. I tried group therapy once and did not enjoy it so am
> trying through this group and my own will power. If anyone has any advice
> or
> help I would be most grateful.
>
> Phil

Phil,
I personally know hundreds of people who have successfully stopped
drinking and I have met thousands. I met them all at AA meetings. I do not
personally know anyone who has stopped drinking bt relying on their own
will. I have met hundreds who have tried though, and I met them in bars.
They were drinking.
All that we have to offer is our own life stories and our own success:
"Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what
happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided you want what we
have and are willing to go to any length to get it -- then you are ready to
take certain steps."
Please go to some meeting just to listen to the stories. Then, if you
really want badly enough to quit drinking, you can take those steps.
It isn't usually mere dislike of group therapy that stops people from
going to meetings. It is usually the subconscious recognition that starting
out by going to meetings just might lead to not drinking and the alcoholic
in us doesn't want that to happen. It's just another example of the drink
being more cunning that you are. For decades it was more cunning than I
was, too. Now it isn't and that started by hearing the stories.
Dan

Gail

01-08-2005, 11:08 AM

Me Omy

01-08-2005, 11:53 AM

yeh- will power doesn't work.

Bobby L

01-08-2005, 01:03 PM

Nat

01-08-2005, 02:36 PM

> I have now stopped drinking for 4 days now and am beginning to wonder when
> the shakes will stop.

Sounds like you are over the hump. The worst withdral symptoms usually hit
on the third day of abstinance. Perhaps you are lucky to be alive. Many who
have just quit without medical care have gone into the DT's, even
convulsions and death.

As others here have explained, If you are an alcoholic you cannot stay sober
on your own. The very best means of maintaining sobriety that I know of is
the AA program of recovery.

As an alcoholic myself, I KNOW I need AA. I proved this absolutely:

I sobered up initially in 1986, and for 14 years enjoyed a happy, sober life
by "immersing" myself in the program. By that I mean I volunteered for every
service job, and worked at whatever they'd let me do.

Then I made the sorry mistake of thinking I was cured and didn't need AA any
more. I quit going to meetings and a year later started drinking again.
Three years later I was committed to a rehab.

Today I KNOW it takes AA to keep me sober. Perhaps you do too.

Take gentle care,

Nat H.
Oxford, Arkansas
USA

Robert McGregor

01-08-2005, 04:46 PM

"Me Omy" <whocares47@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:11608-41E0101E-13@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net...
> yeh- will power doesn't work.
>
With exception of the majority of problem drinkers, for whom, with
respect to alcohol; will power does work.

http://www.moderation.org/whatisMM.shtml

Bob

Sc0t U

01-09-2005, 03:03 PM

In article <gNqdnTpg57Prq33cRVn-pA@centurytel.net>,
n515hoop@centurytel.net says...
> > I have now stopped drinking for 4 days now and am beginning to wonder when
> > the shakes will stop.
>
> Sounds like you are over the hump. The worst withdral symptoms usually hit
> on the third day of abstinance. Perhaps you are lucky to be alive. Many who
> have just quit without medical care have gone into the DT's, even
> convulsions and death.

True DT's are rare, even for the oldest sickly
drunks. Shakes, gastritis and lack of sleep
can perfectly mimic the real tremens.

--
"Laissez les bons temps rouler!" -"La Grenouille

Back by popular demand, 'steal this book' --over
1,500 hits when I had it in my sig back in 2001
or whenever that was.
http://www.geocities.com/woogawooga99/steal.html

"I can pull a rabbit out of a hat. I can pull
it out but I can't put it back. - WZ

Sc0t U

01-09-2005, 03:10 PM

In article <11608-41E0101E-13@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>, whocares47
@webtv.net says...
> yeh- will power doesn't work.
>
>
Typical cop-out. "Where's my thing?"
--
"Laissez les bons temps rouler!" -"La Grenouille

Back by popular demand, 'steal this book' --over
1,500 hits when I had it in my sig back in 2001
or whenever that was.
http://www.geocities.com/woogawooga99/steal.html

"I can pull a rabbit out of a hat. I can pull
it out but I can't put it back. - WZ

Sc0t U

01-09-2005, 04:23 PM

In article <Yv6dndqXxpKvaULcRVn-gw@adelphia.com>, dmcgown@adelphia.net
says...
> "Di & Phil Martin" <diaphi@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:YkNDd.27344$C8.26391@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.u k...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have now stopped drinking for 4 days now and am beginning to wonder when
> > the shakes will stop. I am doing this off my own back and am making life
> > hell for my wife. I tried group therapy once and did not enjoy it so am
> > trying through this group and my own will power. If anyone has any advice
> > or
> > help I would be most grateful.
> >
> > Phil
>
> Phil,
> I personally know hundreds of people who have successfully stopped
> drinking and I have met thousands. I met them all at AA meetings. I do not
> personally know anyone who has stopped drinking bt relying on their own
> will.

You don't personally know anyone who has? Millions have! There

only two different kinds of alcoholics to you: those who are

in bars and those who are in AA. Evidently, you've never considered

the fact that many people who've successfully stopped drinking

for a variety of reasons are in their homes and do not associate

with nuts. I know several people who haven't touched a drop in

10-30 years and they never even knew anything about AA. You

AA sorts want everyone to believe that they are helpless, have

no freedom of choice, no cognitive powers etc without AA to

put its spell on them.

--
"Laissez les bons temps rouler!" -"La Grenouille

Back by popular demand, 'steal this book' --over
1,500 hits when I had it in my sig back in 2001
or whenever that was.
http://www.geocities.com/woogawooga99/steal.html

"I can pull a rabbit out of a hat. I can pull
it out but I can't put it back. - WZ

Sc0t U

01-09-2005, 04:25 PM

In article <8caa76dafbc876aeeb885257bbf085c7
@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com>, lourdesmkowalski@hotmail.com says...
> Congrats and welcome! You CAN NOT stay sober by your will power.

Hogwash! It's the ONLY possible way to stay sober. You can
give AA credit for your decision not to drink but at long
last it was you who made the choice to change your behavior.

--
"Laissez les bons temps rouler!" -"La Grenouille

Back by popular demand, 'steal this book' --over
1,500 hits when I had it in my sig back in 2001
or whenever that was.
http://www.geocities.com/woogawooga99/steal.html

"I can pull a rabbit out of a hat. I can pull
it out but I can't put it back. - WZ

Sc0t U

01-09-2005, 04:31 PM

In article <YkNDd.27344$C8.26391@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
diaphi@blueyonder.co.uk says...
> Hi all,
>
> I have now stopped drinking for 4 days now and am beginning to wonder when
> the shakes will stop.

They'll stop when you go drink some more. See?

> I am doing this off my own back and am making life
> hell for my wife.

So, ask her what's more important -- you go buy
a bottle and make things "easier" for her or
you stay sober and puts up with your attitude.
Alcohol and its effects have become such a
pivotal and important crutch in your life and
your already ready to get drunk so that you
can maintain your current existence as you know it.
The weather ain't gonna change and your wife's not
going to have coping skills to deal with you just
because you stopped drinking. See?

> I tried group therapy once and did not enjoy it so am
> trying through this group and my own will power.

If you think that this newsgroup or ANY usenet
newsgroup is going to save you, you're in for
a shock. The world doesn't care what you do
with your life or if you go out and get pissed
or if you sit around at home shaking like a
leaf on a tree. Self reliance! It's all on
you.

> If anyone has any advice or
> help I would be most grateful.
>
Bah!

--
"Laissez les bons temps rouler!" -"La Grenouille

Back by popular demand, 'steal this book' --over
1,500 hits when I had it in my sig back in 2001
or whenever that was.
http://www.geocities.com/woogawooga99/steal.html

"I can pull a rabbit out of a hat. I can pull
it out but I can't put it back. - WZ

Nat

01-09-2005, 07:56 PM

"Sc0t U" <heyjake@nokillfiles.de> wrote in message
news:34dlqbF47ccsmU3@individual.net...
> In article <8caa76dafbc876aeeb885257bbf085c7
> @localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com>, lourdesmkowalski@hotmail.com says...
>> Congrats and welcome! You CAN NOT stay sober by your will power.
>
> Hogwash! It's the ONLY possible way to stay sober. You can
> give AA credit for your decision not to drink but at long
> last it was you who made the choice to change your behavior.
> put it back. - WZ

AA is by far the most successful means to sobriety for alcoholics. Why are
you so determined to undermine it's efforts? Do you care nothing for those
who are suffering?

nat

Sc0t U

01-09-2005, 09:11 PM

In article <P4udnckwTa9IT3zcRVn-3Q@centurytel.net>,
n515hoop@centurytel.net says...
>
> "Sc0t U" <heyjake@nokillfiles.de> wrote in message
> news:34dlqbF47ccsmU3@individual.net...
> > In article <8caa76dafbc876aeeb885257bbf085c7
> > @localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com>, lourdesmkowalski@hotmail.com says...
> >> Congrats and welcome! You CAN NOT stay sober by your will power.
> >
> > Hogwash! It's the ONLY possible way to stay sober. You can
> > give AA credit for your decision not to drink but at long
> > last it was you who made the choice to change your behavior.
> > put it back. - WZ
>
> AA is by far the most successful means to sobriety for alcoholics. Why are
> you so determined to undermine it's efforts? Do you care nothing for those
> who are suffering?
>
I've never seen it *truly* work for anybody
I've known. They just talk more about it. And
when it became part of the criminal courts
system, I lost all trust in those people. If
you're too stupid to stop drinking when you
know that it's destroying you, then go ahead
and drink! Why take away something from someone
when it's their most important thing in life?
AA people are taught only to admit defeat and
have their egos destroyed and then they're
taught how to be REAL alcoholics and believe
that it's ok to "hit rock bottom" as "hitting
rock bottom" is essential to quitting self
destructive behavior. Basically, it all comes
down to reasonable, responsible and rational.
If someone isn't capable of these things,
they are absolutely hopeless, but, I think
that everyone IS capable of the "RRR" IF
they use common sense and self control.

--
"Laissez les bons temps rouler!" -"La Grenouille

Back by popular demand, 'steal this book' --over
1,500 hits when I had it in my sig back in 2001
or whenever that was.
http://www.geocities.com/woogawooga99/steal.html

"I can pull a rabbit out of a hat. I can pull
it out but I can't put it back. - WZ

Dan McGown

01-09-2005, 09:21 PM

"Nat" <n515hoop@centurytel.net> wrote in message
news:P4udnckwTa9IT3zcRVn-3Q@centurytel.net...
>
>
> AA is by far the most successful means to sobriety for alcoholics. Why are
> you so determined to undermine it's efforts? Do you care nothing for those
> who are suffering?
>
> nat

Nat,
If you go back and re-read all of the posts under this avatar and under
"Scott W" you will find an intensely unhappy person who is apparently
subscribing to the maxim about misery loving company to the point that he is
perfectly willing to try to make other people miserable just to have the
company -- either that or you will just find a troll (assuming that there is
any difference.)
One of the questions that the name/spelling change raises is: "If
enough people block one's posts that one have to change one's name just to
be read, doesn't that say something about the value that they ascribe to
one's snarky diatribes and jabs?"
Fortunately, the problem is self correcting. Once a person has seen a
few of his posts, they are unlikely to use them as maps to try to find
recovery. Talk about being led by the blind.
All the best,
Dan

Nat

01-10-2005, 08:40 AM

>>AA is by far the most successful means to sobriety for alcoholics. Why are
>> >>you so determined to undermine it's efforts? Do you care nothing for
>>those
>>who are suffering?

> I've never seen it *truly* work for anybody I've known.

H'm...guess you haven't attended many AA meetings, or if you have, you
weren't listening.

> If you're too stupid to stop drinking when you
> know that it's destroying you, then go ahead
> and drink!

I feel sorry for you Scott: evidently the only way you can feel important is
to boost your sense of worth by calling others "stupid".

That's OK, I used to have an inflated ego too. As it was inconceivable to me
that I might have a problem that I couldn't handle with my superior
intellect, I had to bury my alcoholic drinking in denial that it was a
problem. any time anyone suggested that I had a problem with alcohol, my
immediate reaction was that they were stupid "Carrie Nations" who didn't
realize what they were missing.

It was ONLY after sobering up that I could see that I had been the fool, not
them. It's a shame that you cannot see yourself honestly.

I have a good friend who suffers the effects of superior intelligence.
Graduated from college with honors, but drives a truck for a living because
he cannot deal with "inferior" supervisors.

There's part of what AA refers to as the "3rd Step Prayer". Part of it
reads, "Relieve me of the bondage of self". I pray that every morning.

Try it, there's always hope.

Regards,

nat
Oxford, AR

Nat

01-10-2005, 03:08 PM

> Nat,
> If you go back and re-read all of the posts under this avatar and
> under "Scott W" you will find an intensely unhappy person who is
> apparently subscribing to the maxim about misery loving company to the
> point that he > is perfectly willing to try to make other people
> miserable just to have the company --

Thanks, Dan. It can be difficult at times to figure why someone would want
to disrupt a group working on a worthy goal to help others.

nat
Arkansas

Sc0t U

01-10-2005, 03:39 PM

In article <pICdnXMq4MJPfX_cRVn-tA@centurytel.net>,
n515hoop@centurytel.net says...
> > Nat,
> > If you go back and re-read all of the posts under this avatar and
> > under "Scott W" you will find an intensely unhappy person who is
> > apparently subscribing to the maxim about misery loving company to the
> > point that he > is perfectly willing to try to make other people
> > miserable just to have the company --
>
> Thanks, Dan. It can be difficult at times to figure why someone would want
> to disrupt a group working on a worthy goal to help others.
>
> nat
> Arkansas
>
>
>
Dear Nat in Arkansas. Whatever happened to a world
where we were free to speak our minds? oh well..
I guess that you people cannot see beyond the
bounds of your dogmatic system of thought.

Don't forget to feed the chickens.
--
"Laissez les bons temps rouler!" -"La Grenouille

Back by popular demand, 'steal this book' --over
1,500 hits when I had it in my sig back in 2001
or whenever that was.
http://www.geocities.com/woogawooga99/steal.html

"I can pull a rabbit out of my pants. I can pull
it out but I can't put it back. - WZ

Nat

01-11-2005, 09:49 AM

>> Thanks, Dan. It can be difficult at times to figure why someone would
>> >>want to disrupt a group working on a worthy goal to help others.
>>
>> nat
>> Arkansas

> Dear Nat in Arkansas. Whatever happened to a world
> where we were free to speak our minds? oh well..
> I guess that you people cannot see beyond the
> bounds of your dogmatic system of thought.
I can't put it back. - WZ

I guess you're saying that a doctor should be free to tell a patient, "I
don't like you, I hope you die."

Your anti-AA comments here only serve to hinder the efforts of decent people
doing their best to help others. As your argument consists of nothing but
negative attacks of your opposition, one must assume you have nothing
positive to offer the still suffering. What a shameful waste of
intelligence.

Why don't you go out and just try to do something nice for someone? You
might be pleasantly surprised to find it makes you feel better about
yourself than what you've been doing here.

Have a nice day,

nat

Starshine

02-07-2005, 11:44 PM

why not try smartrecovery.org..not everyone is meant for AA...and you can do
it yourself!!!

"Nat" <n515hoop@centurytel.net> wrote in message
news:P4udnckwTa9IT3zcRVn-3Q@centurytel.net...
>
> "Sc0t U" <heyjake@nokillfiles.de> wrote in message
> news:34dlqbF47ccsmU3@individual.net...
>> In article <8caa76dafbc876aeeb885257bbf085c7
>> @localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com>, lourdesmkowalski@hotmail.com says...
>>> Congrats and welcome! You CAN NOT stay sober by your will power.
>>
>> Hogwash! It's the ONLY possible way to stay sober. You can
>> give AA credit for your decision not to drink but at long
>> last it was you who made the choice to change your behavior.
>> put it back. - WZ
>
> AA is by far the most successful means to sobriety for alcoholics. Why are
> you so determined to undermine it's efforts? Do you care nothing for those
> who are suffering?
>
> nat
>

Paul

04-03-2005, 12:41 PM

May I recomment Jack Trimpey's book "A New Cure for Alcoholism." Or just go to
the website rationalrecovery.com.

Alcoholism is NOT a disease. AA is part of the problem. Anyone can stop
drinking forever in a day.

dan mcgown

04-03-2005, 12:51 PM

"Paul" <paul@vortex.org> wrote in message
news:G0V3e.3945$IS2.647@fe07.lga...
> May I recomment Jack Trimpey's book "A New Cure for Alcoholism." Or just
> go to
> the website rationalrecovery.com.
>
> Alcoholism is NOT a disease. AA is part of the problem. Anyone can stop
> drinking forever in a day.

Gee, before I accept your declaration and write alcoholism off as being
either a non-problem or a solved problem, would you mind telling us your
qualifications or at least the data upon which you base your claims that
seem to be contrary to the positions stated by the American Medical
Association, the American Psychiatric Association and the American Society
of Addiction Medicine?

You must really have some solid observational evidence to back up your
sweeping statements. Why not share it with us?

Paul

04-03-2005, 03:29 PM

"dan mcgown" <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>"Paul" <paul@vortex.org> wrote in message
>news:G0V3e.3945$IS2.647@fe07.lga...
>> May I recomment Jack Trimpey's book "A New Cure for Alcoholism." Or just
>> go to
>> the website rationalrecovery.com.
>>
>> Alcoholism is NOT a disease. AA is part of the problem. Anyone can stop
>> drinking forever in a day.
>
>Gee, before I accept your declaration and write alcoholism off as being
>either a non-problem or a solved problem, would you mind telling us your
>qualifications or at least the data upon which you base your claims that
>seem to be contrary to the positions stated by the American Medical
>Association, the American Psychiatric Association and the American Society
>of Addiction Medicine?
>
>You must really have some solid observational evidence to back up your
>sweeping statements. Why not share it with us?
>
>

None of these organizations define "Alcoholism" as a disease. For example, the
DSM-IV has two classifications (Alcohol Dependence and Alcohol Addicition) but
does not use the term "Alcoholism" at all.

By its own survey, AA reports among members a 5% recovery rate after 5 years.
Hey, does that look like success or FAILURE. It's worse than that: if people
didn't abuse alcohol any more then AA wouldn't need to exist, would it?

dan mcgown

04-03-2005, 03:31 PM

Troll.

Paul

04-03-2005, 03:47 PM

"dan mcgown" <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote:
>Troll.
>
>

I certainly am not a troll. I think your Addictive Voice is just angry and a
little threatened by me. After all, it wants to DRINK. Since you have
apparently recognized you have a problem with alcohol, why don't you just quit.
And when you have, why in the world would you still want to go every week to a
smoke-filled church basement to drink coffee and listen to drunkologs?

Hey, you are the one who decides to pick up the glass for a drink. Just decide
now that you're not going to do it anymore. Let that primitive amygdala squirm.
Believe me, it very quickly gets easy; all you have to do it recognize the
voice of addicition within you. I might add that AA is part of that voice. It's
the public one and it may be the biggest contributor to the alcohol problems in
the world today.

DaveB

04-03-2005, 07:59 PM

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 19:47:06 GMT, Paul <paul@vortex.org> wrote:

>"dan mcgown" <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>Troll.
>>
>>
>
>I certainly am not a troll. I think your Addictive Voice is just angry and a
>little threatened by me. After all, it wants to DRINK. Since you have
>apparently recognized you have a problem with alcohol, why don't you just quit.
>And when you have, why in the world would you still want to go every week to a
>smoke-filled church basement to drink coffee and listen to drunkologs?
>
>Hey, you are the one who decides to pick up the glass for a drink. Just decide
>now that you're not going to do it anymore. Let that primitive amygdala squirm.
>Believe me, it very quickly gets easy; all you have to do it recognize the
>voice of addicition within you. I might add that AA is part of that voice. It's
>the public one and it may be the biggest contributor to the alcohol problems in
>the world today.
>

Man, I must be clueless I thought alcohol was the biggest contributor.

Regards

Daveb

Paul

04-03-2005, 11:38 PM

>>
>
>Man, I must be clueless I thought alcohol was the biggest contributor.
>
>Regards
>
>Daveb

AA gives you permission to drink. "Oh, the episode was just a relapse in the
disease. Just return to the fold. You are welcome here whenever you need us.
You may relapse, but we will still help you...etc, etc."

Once a person abstains completely, why would one attend meetings to discuss the
past? AA gives people the excuse to drink. That and its being the dominant
influence on people with alcohol problems make it an major contributor to
alcohol abuse. Yes, AA is part of the problem.