I'm pretty new, but . . .

[Dan McGown]

I suspect that the primary reason that most people come here is the same as
the primary reason that I come here: for mutual assistance, aid and comfort
in dealing with alcohol addiction and avoiding the continuing desire and
temptation to drink.

Most of us don't come here to discuss sexual orientation,
politics, narcissism other than as related to alcoholism, or personal
attacks on other participants.

As an exercise, cast a scatter diagram on the topics of the last
100 posts. How many fit the topics described by the first paragraph and how
many instead are covered by the second paragraph?

We either ought to rename the group
"alt.self.destructive.behavior" or we should try to remember what we had in
mind when we looked for this group in the first place.

On a lighter note, I made it through another weekend without
drinking and I hope that you all did the same. If everyone did, then great.
If anyone didn't, then we still just have today to deal with, and today
only.

[Gail]

"Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:lkSSa.800$gi.1120518@news2.news.adelphia.net. ..
> I suspect that the primary reason that most people come here is the same
as
> the primary reason that I come here: for mutual assistance, aid and
comfort
> in dealing with alcohol addiction and avoiding the continuing desire and
> temptation to drink.
>
> Most of us don't come here to discuss sexual orientation,
> politics, narcissism other than as related to alcoholism, or personal
> attacks on other participants.
>
> As an exercise, cast a scatter diagram on the topics of the
last
> 100 posts. How many fit the topics described by the first paragraph and
how
> many instead are covered by the second paragraph?
>
> We either ought to rename the group
> "alt.self.destructive.behavior" or we should try to remember what we had
in
> mind when we looked for this group in the first place.
>
> On a lighter note, I made it through another weekend without
> drinking and I hope that you all did the same. If everyone did, then
great.
> If anyone didn't, then we still just have today to deal with, and today
> only.
>
>

Hi Dan. Totally agree.
My weekend was great. My husband and I went to an eat and speak meetings.
Mexican food was great. The speaker on Saturday night was a lady who had
seven years sobriety. Her story kept everyone's attention. Most of the
people there knew her and what she had been through and watched her sober up
all those years. Towards the last of her story, after she had gotten sober,
her grand-daughter was kidnapped, raped and murdered at age 9. It happened
in the county here where I live. We haven't lived here long enough to ever
have heard about it. Anyway, her story was really touching. We got home that
night and settled down to watch some TV and put the TV on Discovery channel.
We were watching something about murders. We could not believe that the
murder they were talking about was of this little girl of whom we had just
heard her grandmother talk of. After seeing that on the TV, made us
appreciate her story and her even more. ;)
Best,
Gail

[Dan McGown]

My lord, what a story! It's amazing the things that a person can get
through without drinking when they have the right approach and the right
support. -- alomst as amazing as the small excuses we need to drink when we
lose sight of what we're doing. Sounds like a great weekend and a good
group. Good on ya.

> Hi Dan. Totally agree.
> My weekend was great. My husband and I went to an eat and speak meetings.
> Mexican food was great. The speaker on Saturday night was a lady who had
> seven years sobriety. Her story kept everyone's attention. Most of the
> people there knew her and what she had been through and watched her sober
up
> all those years. Towards the last of her story, after she had gotten
sober,
> her grand-daughter was kidnapped, raped and murdered at age 9. It happened
> in the county here where I live. We haven't lived here long enough to ever
> have heard about it. Anyway, her story was really touching. We got home
that
> night and settled down to watch some TV and put the TV on Discovery
channel.
> We were watching something about murders. We could not believe that the
> murder they were talking about was of this little girl of whom we had just
> heard her grandmother talk of. After seeing that on the TV, made us
> appreciate her story and her even more. ;)
> Best,
> Gail
>
>

[Plug]

"Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:lkSSa.800$gi.1120518@news2.news.adelphia.net. ..
> > Most of us don't come here to discuss sexual orientation,
> politics, narcissism other than as related to alcoholism, or personal
> attacks on other participants.
>
> On a lighter note, I made it through another weekend without
> drinking and I hope that you all did the same. If everyone did, then
great.
> If anyone didn't, then we still just have today to deal with, and today
> only.
>
Hi Dan,
It must be the silly season as the other group I subscribe to is awash with
cross posting, fuckwit slinging and ot stuff. However, I did try a
moderated group last year and boy was it boring! Most of the people on here
are great - stick with it. Don't let them drive you to drink!
Deb/Bubba

[rosie readandpost]

> On a lighter note, I made it through another weekend without
> drinking and I hope that you all did the same. If everyone did, then great.
> If anyone didn't, then we still just have today to deal with, and today
> only.
>
>

hello dan,
i'm glad to read that you make it through another weekend!
so did i!

parts of my weekend were harder than others though......................
remembering that my BEHAVIOR toward my family and others is the TRUE measure of my sobriety was of utmost importance.

little things (imo, its always the little things) like my husband spilling ice tea all over the inside of the
refrigerator what a mess!

removing myself, from the "scene of the crime", cooling down, and remembering how important it really is, on a scale of
1-10! (not)

looking forward to a productive monday!
thanks for the topic!

rosie

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <lkSSa.800$gi.1120518@news2.news.adelphia.net>, Dan McGown
<DMcGown@adelphia.net> writes
>On a lighter note, I made it through another weekend without drinking
>and I hope that you all did the same. If everyone did, then great. If
>anyone didn't, then we still just have today to deal with, and today
>only.

I agree. My sexual orientation is as irrelevant as anyone - no idea why
it became such an issue.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Blue Moon]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:16:46 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
<jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:

>In message <lkSSa.800$gi.1120518@news2.news.adelphia.net>, Dan McGown
><DMcGown@adelphia.net> writes
>>On a lighter note, I made it through another weekend without drinking
>>and I hope that you all did the same. If everyone did, then great. If
>>anyone didn't, then we still just have today to deal with, and today
>>only.
>
>I agree. My sexual orientation is as irrelevant as anyone - no idea why
>it became such an issue.

Maybe it's at least partly because you refer to, specifically, "My"
sexual orientation in a thread that makes no mention, specifically, of
your orientation.

If I want a fire to die down, it's usually wise for me to put down the
fan.

--
Blue Moon

[Dan McGown]

Funny you should mention that. I've found that it's easier for me now
(sober) to step back and not let my temper flare. I think that my temper is
one of the places that alcohol let poison seep into my relationships. Glad
that's over, but sorry that it happened too late for my marriage. Live and
learn, eh?

> parts of my weekend were harder than others though......................
> remembering that my BEHAVIOR toward my family and others is the TRUE
measure of my sobriety was of utmost importance.
>
> little things (imo, its always the little things) like my husband spilling
ice tea all over the inside of the
> refrigerator what a mess!
>
> removing myself, from the "scene of the crime", cooling down, and
remembering how important it really is, on a scale of
> 1-10! (not)

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uuTSa.28226$o27.458520@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> parts of my weekend were harder than others though......................
> remembering that my BEHAVIOR toward my family and others is the TRUE
measure of my sobriety was of utmost importance.
>
> little things (imo, its always the little things) like my husband spilling
ice tea all over the inside of the
> refrigerator what a mess!
>
> removing myself, from the "scene of the crime", cooling down, and
remembering how important it really is, on a scale of
> 1-10! (not)


The Step Four of credibility challenged AAers :- When our spouse was wrong,
told
the world about it, glorifying how our *quality* sobriety demonstrates the
triumph of tolerance.

Did you know what preceded me being kicked out of Lamplighters? (AA only
online group.) Despite Rosies malicious bullshit to the contrary, it was
after my remarking on that version of step four being exemplified, by a so
called "A.A trusted servant."


Bob

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <cca80203c64b7ac394aec1435d21b753@free.teranews.com >, Blue
Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
>On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:16:46 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
><jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>In message <lkSSa.800$gi.1120518@news2.news.adelphia.net>, Dan McGown
>><DMcGown@adelphia.net> writes
>>>On a lighter note, I made it through another weekend without drinking
>>>and I hope that you all did the same. If everyone did, then great. If
>>>anyone didn't, then we still just have today to deal with, and today
>>>only.
>>
>>I agree. My sexual orientation is as irrelevant as anyone - no idea why
>>it became such an issue.
>
>Maybe it's at least partly because you refer to, specifically, "My"
>sexual orientation in a thread that makes no mention, specifically, of
>your orientation.

Until moonraker started raking it up I have never made it an issue. I
may have referred to my boyfriend on occasion - has anyone else ever
mentioned their wife/husband? What is the difference.
>
>If I want a fire to die down, it's usually wise for me to put down the
>fan.
>
If I misunderstood moonraker's comment he could have said so, I would
have apologised, and that would have been it. He had a desire to shit
stir.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[rosie readandpost]

"Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:4l2Ta.947$gi.1271277@news2.news.adelphia.net. ..
> Funny you should mention that. I've found that it's easier for me now
> (sober) to step back and not let my temper flare. I think that my temper is
> one of the places that alcohol let poison seep into my relationships. Glad
> that's over, but sorry that it happened too late for my marriage. Live and
> learn, eh?
>


YUP!

[rosie readandpost]

> Did you know what preceded me being kicked out of Lamplighters? (AA only
> online group.)

lamplighters is NOT the only AA online group!
where the hell have you been?




>Despite Rosies malicious bullshit to the contrary, it was
> after my remarking on that version of step four being exemplified, by a so
> called "A.A trusted servant."
>
>
> Bob


robert,
you were asked many, many, times to control yourself, AND your contempt for others.
you are disruptive to the meeting process of sharing....................and many felt that it was done of purpose, and
as you know, it was.

i'm sure your happiness would return if you took care of that CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER!
you certainly have a lot to share!


rosie

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:B%aTa.23509$7O4.503982@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > Did you know what preceded me being kicked out of Lamplighters? (AA only
> > online group.)
>
> lamplighters is NOT the only AA online group!
> where the hell have you been?

I've been around enough places to realise this is not an AA meeting. "AA
only" means AA only. In AAspeak, a "closed meeting."

>
>
>
>
> >Despite Rosies malicious bullshit to the contrary, it was
> > after my remarking on that version of step four being exemplified, by a
so
> > called "A.A trusted servant."
> >
> >
> > Bob
>
>
> robert,
> you were asked many, many, times to control yourself, AND your contempt
for others.
> you are disruptive to the meeting process of
sharing....................and many felt that it was done of purpose, and
> as you know, it was.

Of course it was done for a purpose.
I was kicked out after remarking on the sacrosanct version of step four
being exemplified, by a so called "A.A trusted servant." Hypocrisy being
sacrosanct in AA is imo disgusting.

Incidentally, on that occasion, the "trusted servant" did go further than
your one example, he posted a comprehensive inventory of his spouse.
However, I'm not at all surprised that while attempting diversion from the
indefensible, you snipped the pertinence here.

> little things (imo, its always the little things) like my husband spilling
>ice tea all over the inside of the
> refrigerator what a mess!

The Step Four of credibility challenged AAers :- When our spouse was wrong,
told the world about it, glorifying how our *quality* sobriety demonstrates
the triumph of tolerance.

>
> i'm sure your happiness would return if you took care of that CHIP ON YOUR
SHOULDER!
> you certainly have a lot to share!
>
>
Do you always project your very own perpetuated misery onto those who call
your bluff?

Bob

From: "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
Message-ID: < wkHa.22568$fe.447991@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:31:22 GMT

>YES, whatever works!
>i belong to the "old school" of counting sobriety from the LAST
>drink/drug,
>but i don't expect
>everyone to do so, just because i did!

"rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<ZPSl5.19140$E05.340458@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>

>i am thinking about asking my pdoc to increase my celexa to
>60mg..........anyone else in here have good results with that dosage?
>my 40mg seems to be "pooping out"...........

From: "rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <l%Rl5.19132$E05.337271@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>

actually, i would have to say that i have had GOOD long term experience with
the treatment of my depression over the past 13yrs.
i have however had to take several different meds as each once finally
"wears
out" and i need to change.

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4jmTa.33272$6a3.607019@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> robert,
> you really ought to let go of your resentment of AA.
> (you might feel better)


Given I have agreed to return to the AA DSO computer, again, and instruct
the AA official I dislike the most as to how to utilise that computer, what
the fuck are you talking about?

>
> your out of AA now, and your happy right?
> i am happy for you........................

Regardless of no sign of an apology, what changed your mind?

> i really don't know what "misery" your talking about.
> i have never felt spiritually better or more grateful in my life.

Argh, your drugs have temporarily stopped pooping on you have they?

>
>
> (i just came from an AA meeting, and we had a newcomer there.
> older, heavy, guy, in his fifties......................KNOWS that he is a
drunk, but not sure he wants to stop.)
>
> i remember those days!

You were an older heavier guy in your fifties .... in this incarnation?

Bob

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:DGmTa.33282$6a3.610359@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > Given I have agreed to return to the AA DSO computer, again, and
instruct
> > the AA official I dislike the most as to how to utilise that computer,
what
> > the fuck are you talking about?
> >
>
>
> DSO?
>
>

AA Service Office. Not sure if it is correctly called the General Service
Office, or the District Service office, or both.

I have heard that some folk manning that office surf the net using the AA
phone help line for the connection. That entails a recorded message to
enquirers, arguably protecting those enquirers from ill advised advice.

Bob;-)

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <jL6dnQDbE9KImYOiRTvUrg@speakeasy.net>, Cartman
<omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> writes
>"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:wRezHWTfyRH$Ewr3@aol.com...
> <SNIP>
>> Until moonraker started raking it up I have never made it an issue. I
>> may have referred to my boyfriend on occasion - has anyone else ever
>> mentioned their wife/husband? What is the difference.
>
>Huge difference
>
>
Care to expand?
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Dan Ballance]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:58:41 GMT, "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net>
wrote:

>I suspect that the primary reason that most people come here is the same as
>the primary reason that I come here: for mutual assistance, aid and comfort
>in dealing with alcohol addiction and avoiding the continuing desire and
>temptation to drink.
>
> Most of us don't come here to discuss sexual orientation,
>politics, narcissism other than as related to alcoholism, or personal
>attacks on other participants.
>
> As an exercise, cast a scatter diagram on the topics of the last
>100 posts. How many fit the topics described by the first paragraph and how
>many instead are covered by the second paragraph?
>
> We either ought to rename the group
>"alt.self.destructive.behavior" or we should try to remember what we had in
>mind when we looked for this group in the first place.
>
> On a lighter note, I made it through another weekend without
>drinking and I hope that you all did the same. If everyone did, then great.
>If anyone didn't, then we still just have today to deal with, and today
>only.
>

mu guess is that the more we sit and talk about alcohol, the more it
puts the thought into our minds - the more we want to drink. For my
pennies worth, i think a certain degree of off-topic posting reflects
a healthy group, as long as it's not abussive.

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:14:39 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
<jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:

>In message <cca80203c64b7ac394aec1435d21b753@free.teranews.com >, Blue
>Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
>>On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:16:46 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
>><jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I agree. My sexual orientation is as irrelevant as anyone - no idea why
>>>it became such an issue.
>>
>>Maybe it's at least partly because you refer to, specifically, "My"
>>sexual orientation in a thread that makes no mention, specifically, of
>>your orientation.
>
>Until moonraker started raking it up I have never made it an issue. I
>may have referred to my boyfriend on occasion - has anyone else ever
>mentioned their wife/husband? What is the difference.
>>
>>If I want a fire to die down, it's usually wise for me to put down the
>>fan.
>>
>If I misunderstood moonraker's comment he could have said so, I would
>have apologised, and that would have been it. He had a desire to shit
>stir.

According to my newsreader, Moonraker has so far had no participation
in this thread whatsoever. That's just my point ... you're the one
still fanning that fire.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:07:52 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
<jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:

>In message <jL6dnQDbE9KImYOiRTvUrg@speakeasy.net>, Cartman
><omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> writes
>>"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
>>news:wRezHWTfyRH$Ewr3@aol.com...
>> <SNIP>
>>> Until moonraker started raking it up I have never made it an issue. I
>>> may have referred to my boyfriend on occasion - has anyone else ever
>>> mentioned their wife/husband? What is the difference.
>>
>>Huge difference
>>
>Care to expand?

If someone came here displaying what I personally perceive as a phobia
towards my own sexual persuasion, and if I then express a wish for
that activity to cease, a responsibility lies with me in not bringing
the subject of my sexuality into a thread that wasn't discussing the
subject.

To bring the subject up when it's clearly unwarranted is just asking
for trouble. You could then sit back and claim victim status for what
is, effectively, Troll-like behaviour.

The type of sexuality under discussion is irrelevent. What's relevant
is what each individual chooses to do, and whether or not they then
act surprised at the outcome of choices made.

Personally speaking, I have no interest in your sexuality either way.
Gay or straight, black or white, male or female, alcoholism knows no
bounds and so neither should recovery. No, what concerned me was the
fact you seemed to lay blame for your alcohol problem on your partner
(or ex-partner), irrespective of gender. I've seen little to indicate
that perception has changed.

--
Blue Moon

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <0da044085e4814dbc6b3ccbca43ef36f@free.teranews.com >, Blue
Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes

>To bring the subject up when it's clearly unwarranted is just asking
>for trouble. You could then sit back and claim victim status for what
>is, effectively, Troll-like behaviour.

I don't think I brought up the subject of my sexuality. By referring to
the gender of my partner? A little clumsy constantly to refer to him as
'they'.
>
>The type of sexuality under discussion is irrelevent. What's relevant
>is what each individual chooses to do, and whether or not they then act
>surprised at the outcome of choices made.
>
>Personally speaking, I have no interest in your sexuality either way.
>Gay or straight, black or white, male or female, alcoholism knows no
>bounds and so neither should recovery. No, what concerned me was the
>fact you seemed to lay blame for your alcohol problem on your partner
>(or ex-partner), irrespective of gender. I've seen little to indicate
>that perception has changed.

Let me say it: the responsibility for it was mine alone. I handled that
relationship badly - I allowed things to happen that I should not have
allowed to happen, and I took refuge in alcohol in a manner that I
deeply regret. It did serious damage and I am continuing with therapy to
try and heal that. Not drinking is clearly critical to the process.

One of the things I learned was that I had allowed myself to be walked
over, storing up resentments against myself and others in a damaging
manner. I am not going to allow that to happen again, so when I attacked
- or perceive an attack - I will challenge that.

This is coupled with my own version of a moral inventory - examining my
character and behaviours with a view to making positive changes. And a
willingness to apologise when wrong. As a friend of mine put it: to
become the Jonathan that I have always wanted. And only I can do that.

--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <b50820662e7d2085d7b65f5700aefa69@free.teranews.com >, Blue
Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
>On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:14:39 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
><jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>In message <cca80203c64b7ac394aec1435d21b753@free.teranews.com >, Blue
>>Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
>>>On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:16:46 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
>>><jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I agree. My sexual orientation is as irrelevant as anyone - no idea why
>>>>it became such an issue.
>>>
>>>Maybe it's at least partly because you refer to, specifically, "My"
>>>sexual orientation in a thread that makes no mention, specifically, of
>>>your orientation.
>>
>>Until moonraker started raking it up I have never made it an issue. I
>>may have referred to my boyfriend on occasion - has anyone else ever
>>mentioned their wife/husband? What is the difference.
>>>
>>>If I want a fire to die down, it's usually wise for me to put down the
>>>fan.
>>>
>>If I misunderstood moonraker's comment he could have said so, I would
>>have apologised, and that would have been it. He had a desire to shit
>>stir.
>
>According to my newsreader, Moonraker has so far had no participation
>in this thread whatsoever. That's just my point ... you're the one
>still fanning that fire.
I suggest you reread.

His contributions included saying it was a natural assumption on his
part that I would be sexually interested in children; calling me
'pansy'; and ending with: 'got AIDS yet fagboy'.

--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <03851abf184bb676e5f4542a68e546d0@free.teranews.com >, Blue
Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
>On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:25:04 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
><jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>to become the Jonathan that I have always wanted. And only I can do that.
>
>Indeed. But you don't have to reinvent the tools to do it with,
>unless you really want to :)
>
Hey - I'm a great inventor!

I think I have said before, there is a great deal to be learned from AA
- in particular the moral inventory step, even though I may have
interpreted it differently. I am also going to a professional therapist
- my temporary higher power :-) - to help me as I do not believe I will
do it all by myself (cue song).

But what the hell I am going to do at night now that Big Brother is
over? Watching that lot when they were pissed was a great reminder of
how *not* to behave ;-)
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Blue Moon]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:25:04 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
<jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:

>to become the Jonathan that I have always wanted. And only I can do that.

Indeed. But you don't have to reinvent the tools to do it with,
unless you really want to :)

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:26:45 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
<jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:

>In message <b50820662e7d2085d7b65f5700aefa69@free.teranews.com >, Blue
>Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes

>>According to my newsreader, Moonraker has so far had no participation
>>in this thread whatsoever. That's just my point ... you're the one
>>still fanning that fire.

>I suggest you reread.
>
>His contributions included saying it was a natural assumption on his
>part that I would be sexually interested in children; calling me
>'pansy'; and ending with: 'got AIDS yet fagboy'.

This thread is titled "I'm pretty new, but...". I'll say again,
according to my newsreader, Moonraker has so far had no participation
in this thread whatsoever.

--
Blue Moon

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <ab4faae6454cfeb511bbdbd3e0b1b4a9@free.teranews.com >, Blue
Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
>On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:26:45 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
><jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>In message <b50820662e7d2085d7b65f5700aefa69@free.teranews.com >, Blue
>>Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
>
>>>According to my newsreader, Moonraker has so far had no participation
>>>in this thread whatsoever. That's just my point ... you're the one
>>>still fanning that fire.
>
>>I suggest you reread.
>>
>>His contributions included saying it was a natural assumption on his
>>part that I would be sexually interested in children; calling me
>>'pansy'; and ending with: 'got AIDS yet fagboy'.
>
>This thread is titled "I'm pretty new, but...". I'll say again,
>according to my newsreader, Moonraker has so far had no participation
>in this thread whatsoever.
>
The original post contained this:

"Most of us don't come here to discuss sexual orientation, politics,
narcissism other than as related to alcoholism, or personal attacks on
other participants.

As an exercise, cast a scatter diagram on the topics of the
last 100 posts. How many fit the topics described by the first
paragraph and how many instead are covered by the second paragraph?

We either ought to rename the group
"alt.self.destructive.behavior" or we should try to remember what we had
in mind when we looked for this group in the first place."

I responded to this
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Robert McGregor]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5NExgwoJCjI$EwzC@aol.com...
> In message <ab4faae6454cfeb511bbdbd3e0b1b4a9@free.teranews.com >, Blue
> Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
> >On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:26:45 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
> ><jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >>In message <b50820662e7d2085d7b65f5700aefa69@free.teranews.com >, Blue
> >>Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
> >
> >>>According to my newsreader, Moonraker has so far had no participation
> >>>in this thread whatsoever. That's just my point ... you're the one
> >>>still fanning that fire.
> >
> >>I suggest you reread.
> >>
> >>His contributions included saying it was a natural assumption on his
> >>part that I would be sexually interested in children; calling me
> >>'pansy'; and ending with: 'got AIDS yet fagboy'.
> >
> >This thread is titled "I'm pretty new, but...". I'll say again,
> >according to my newsreader, Moonraker has so far had no participation
> >in this thread whatsoever.
> >
> The original post contained this:
>
> "Most of us don't come here to discuss sexual orientation, politics,
> narcissism other than as related to alcoholism, or personal attacks on
> other participants.
>
> As an exercise, cast a scatter diagram on the topics of the
> last 100 posts. How many fit the topics described by the first
> paragraph and how many instead are covered by the second paragraph?
>
> We either ought to rename the group
> "alt.self.destructive.behavior" or we should try to remember what we had
> in mind when we looked for this group in the first place."
>
> I responded to this

With what seemed to me an antagonistic proclamation of your sexuality, as
distinct from a genuine enquiry about reaction to it.

Bob

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:mX2WG4K+$BH$EwIG@aol.com...
> I agree. My sexual orientation is as irrelevant as anyone - no idea why
> it became such an issue.

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <bftdr0$iq0jq$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert McGregor
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> writes
>With what seemed to me an antagonistic proclamation of your sexuality,
>as distinct from a genuine enquiry about reaction to it.

It may have been antagonistic because I had been antagonised in another
thread.

I find it interesting that it is my responses that appear to be under
scrutiny rather than the instigator....
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Robert McGregor]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:h9F38QqOyjI$Ewz5@aol.com...
> In message <bftdr0$iq0jq$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert McGregor
> <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> writes
> >With what seemed to me an antagonistic proclamation of your sexuality,
> >as distinct from a genuine enquiry about reaction to it.
>
> It may have been antagonistic because I had been antagonised in another
> thread.
>
> I find it interesting that it is my responses that appear to be under
> scrutiny rather than the instigator....
> --

Given it is you that is protesting the topic, how else could it be?

Bob

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <bftfns$ihp6t$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert McGregor
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> writes
>
>"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:h9F38QqOyjI$Ewz5@aol.com...
>> In message <bftdr0$iq0jq$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert McGregor
>> <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> writes
>> >With what seemed to me an antagonistic proclamation of your sexuality,
>> >as distinct from a genuine enquiry about reaction to it.
>>
>> It may have been antagonistic because I had been antagonised in another
>> thread.
>>
>> I find it interesting that it is my responses that appear to be under
>> scrutiny rather than the instigator....
>> --
>
>Given it is you that is protesting the topic, how else could it be?
>
>Bob
>
>
I refer the honourable gentleman to the originating thread. My interest
is that the comment 'Got AIDS yet fagboy?' elicited very little response
- with one or two honourable exceptions. I was further wondering if 'Got
AIDS yet nigger boy' would have met with a similar response.

--
Jonathan Bratt

[Robert McGregor]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:zLlTxgsNMkI$EwDA@aol.com...
> In message <bftfns$ihp6t$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert McGregor
> <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> writes
> >
> >"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:h9F38QqOyjI$Ewz5@aol.com...
> >> In message <bftdr0$iq0jq$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert
McGregor
> >> <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> writes
> >> >With what seemed to me an antagonistic proclamation of your sexuality,
> >> >as distinct from a genuine enquiry about reaction to it.
> >>
> >> It may have been antagonistic because I had been antagonised in another
> >> thread.
> >>
> >> I find it interesting that it is my responses that appear to be under
> >> scrutiny rather than the instigator....
> >> --
> >
> >Given it is you that is protesting the topic, how else could it be?
> >
> >Bob
> >
> >
> I refer the honourable gentleman to the originating thread. My interest
> is that the comment 'Got AIDS yet fagboy?' elicited very little response
> - with one or two honourable exceptions. I was further wondering if 'Got
> AIDS yet nigger boy' would have met with a similar response.
>
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

Why wonder? If it really bothers you, simply post that your next acquisition
could well be, or would never be, a nigger boy; whatever the case may be.

That would keep your sexual preference topical, which seems to be your
ambition.

Bob

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <bftl06$iu60j$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert McGregor
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> writes
>That would keep your sexual preference topical, which seems to be your
>ambition.

I never raised it - moony did. It was the response of others on this
group to abuse that subsequently began to interest me. Human nature and
in particular that of humans with alcohol problems interests me.

--
Jonathan Bratt

[Bpyboy]

Hey folks,
I have an idea that's ridiculous, but I still need to credit the American
acedemics for coming up with it first.

Wasn't there a time in the US 60's and 70's that they wanted to change the
language so that it wasn't gender specific (wasn't it called esparanto or
something? about 20 years before my time).

Still, I understand that people got upset that "man" refered to the human race
in general...........

so they (and I'm sure it cost millions and took a bunch of PhDs to figure this
out) they started making up new words like "Shim" to encompase all genders, so
nobody got offended.
Then you could sound really savy, and say, "yeah, shim and I went for dinner
last night......" Or, just sound paranoid?
sometimes you shims are aggrevating, but it is sort of like being in a new
virtual family. Let's just burry the hatchet and drop this one, what do you
shims say?

just a thought,
john

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <20030726073510.06272.00001027@mb-m03.aol.com>, Bpyboy
<bpyboy@aol.com> writes
>Wasn't there a time in the US 60's and 70's that they wanted to change
>the language so that it wasn't gender specific (wasn't it called
>esparanto or something? about 20 years before my time).

FYI Esperanto was designed as a world language. It may have been
non-gender specific but that was not the intention.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <cYuUa.2134$jI6.931@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
<fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> writes
>What else could it be? Why else would a confessed non-alcoholic with
>an ambition to drink again be posting in this group except to call
>attention to himself? As Gail said the other day, if you aren't
>sober, know how to get sober, or want to get sober, then shut the fuck
>up. Little Jonny isn't any of above, and he needs to heed some good
>advise.

Well - I'm not drinking and have not decided yet whether I will or not
til September 21. So I am sober. I am going for therapy so will be
getting advice of a quality you may not understand.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <vi5klrl3snel8f@corp.supernews.com>, Gail
<serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> writes
>Jonathan Bratt wrote:
>> In message <cYuUa.2134$jI6.931@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
>> <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> writes
>>> What else could it be? Why else would a confessed non-alcoholic with
>>> an ambition to drink again be posting in this group except to call
>>> attention to himself? As Gail said the other day, if you aren't
>>> sober, know how to get sober, or want to get sober, then shut the
>>> fuck up. Little Jonny isn't any of above, and he needs to heed
>>> some good advise.
>>
>> Well - I'm not drinking and have not decided yet whether I will or not
>> til September 21. So I am sober. I am going for therapy so will be
>> getting advice of a quality you may not understand.
>
>Gosh, I wish I could have been able to decide that for myself and srick to
>it.
>
>

Well - I've had some pretty good help.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Blue Moon]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:40:57 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
<jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:

>In message <ab4faae6454cfeb511bbdbd3e0b1b4a9@free.teranews.com >, Blue
>Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
>>On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:26:45 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
>><jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In message <b50820662e7d2085d7b65f5700aefa69@free.teranews.com >, Blue
>>>Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
>>
>>>>According to my newsreader, Moonraker has so far had no participation
>>>>in this thread whatsoever. That's just my point ... you're the one
>>>>still fanning that fire.
>>
>>>I suggest you reread.
>>>
>>>His contributions included saying it was a natural assumption on his
>>>part that I would be sexually interested in children; calling me
>>>'pansy'; and ending with: 'got AIDS yet fagboy'.
>>
>>This thread is titled "I'm pretty new, but...". I'll say again,
>>according to my newsreader, Moonraker has so far had no participation
>>in this thread whatsoever.
>>
>The original post contained this:
>
>"Most of us don't come here to discuss sexual orientation, politics,
>narcissism other than as related to alcoholism, or personal attacks on
>other participants.
>
> As an exercise, cast a scatter diagram on the topics of the
>last 100 posts. How many fit the topics described by the first
>paragraph and how many instead are covered by the second paragraph?
>
> We either ought to rename the group
>"alt.self.destructive.behavior" or we should try to remember what we had
>in mind when we looked for this group in the first place."
>
>I responded to this

Quite. Which rather seems to prove my point. Whatever. The
suggestion remains the same: if you want a fire to die down, quit
fanning it.

--
Blue Moon