Is my sponsor turning gay [Archive] - Drug & Alcohol Rehab Forums & News

Scott W

11-27-2004, 08:37 PM

In article <41A92629.3070107@sober.com>, nolongerpickled@sober.com
says...
> And some people wonder why, after 3 months into the program I have yet to seek out a sponser.
>

They're into this whole homo power-trip. Don't trust them.
They're as bad as priests on choir boys or YMCA camp
councilors. I remember when I was in 3rd grade at summer
camp the YMCA councilor tried to molest me when I was asleep
but I was quick and ran out of the cabin. When I peeked back
in the window he was sniffing my panties.

> Scott W wrote:
> > In article <coahsg01l7g@enews4.newsguy.com>, freespeakers@for.less
> > says...
> >
> >>Is my sponsor turing gay?
> >>I was just wondering how long do I have to go before I can get a
> >>discount on my sponsor.
> >>He is beginning to be expensive and his dick is starting to taste like
> >>shit.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Ehehehehehe! ONce my sponsor was fucking me up
> > the ass and he grabbed my dick! I was like, "what
> > are you some kinda faggot?"
>
>

--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

King MacEarca

11-28-2004, 06:59 AM

Just start babbling about the trouble you begin to have not thinking
about drinking a cold bubly foaming sprinkling ice clinking drink. and
you will have christian jew cop faggots trying to get your pnone number.

"cucumber" <nolongerpickled@sober.com> wrote in message
news:41A92629.3070107@sober.com...
> And some people wonder why, after 3 months into the program I have yet
to seek out a sponser.

Once a pickle always a pickle. You can never again be a cucumber.

Unless you take Smiley Joes "Learn How To Drink Like a Gentlemen in 24
Hours" crash course.

>
> Scott W wrote:
> > In article <coahsg01l7g@enews4.newsguy.com>, freespeakers@for.less
> > says...
> >
> >>Is my sponsor turing gay?
> >>I was just wondering how long do I have to go before I can get a
> >>discount on my sponsor.
> >>He is beginning to be expensive and his dick is starting to taste
like
> >>shit.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Ehehehehehe! ONce my sponsor was fucking me up
> > the ass and he grabbed my dick! I was like, "what
> > are you some kinda faggot?"
>

King MacEarca

11-28-2004, 07:11 AM

"Scott W" <meanwhile.back@theranch.xxx> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c12e7dbc6981d7b98c718@news.alt.net...
> In article <41A92629.3070107@sober.com>, nolongerpickled@sober.com
> says...
> > And some people wonder why, after 3 months into the program I have
yet to seek out a sponser.
> >
>
> They're into this whole homo power-trip. Don't trust them.
> They're as bad as priests on choir boys or YMCA camp
> councilors. I remember when I was in 3rd grade at summer
> camp the YMCA councilor tried to molest me when I was asleep
> but I was quick and ran out of the cabin. When I peeked back
> in the window he was sniffing my panties.

That's the sickness going around in AA. These hard core fuckers who
thump the bible are really faggots who hate themselves for being
faggots.
They keep having trouble with the fourth step because the steps go
against the ten commandments of the christian jew cop government.

This is my main reason for no longer supporting AA because the past
decades reliogn has used the alcoholics sickness to infringe on the
freedoms the bill of rights guarantees.

>
> > Scott W wrote:
> > > In article <coahsg01l7g@enews4.newsguy.com>, freespeakers@for.less
> > > says...
> > >
> > >>Is my sponsor turing gay?
> > >>I was just wondering how long do I have to go before I can get a
> > >>discount on my sponsor.
> > >>He is beginning to be expensive and his dick is starting to taste
like
> > >>shit.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > Ehehehehehe! ONce my sponsor was fucking me up
> > > the ass and he grabbed my dick! I was like, "what
> > > are you some kinda faggot?"
> >
> >
>
> --
> "I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

11-30-2004, 06:42 PM

"cucumber" <nolongerpickled@sober.com> wrote in message
news:41A92629.3070107@sober.com...
> And some people wonder why, after 3 months into the program I have
yet to seek out a sponser.

If you want a Sponsor who you might never met f2f, you could find
such a one through joining certain internet AA groups.

JB

Tom

11-30-2004, 07:00 PM

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 00:42:02 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

>
>"cucumber" <nolongerpickled@sober.com> wrote in message
>news:41A92629.3070107@sober.com...
>> And some people wonder why, after 3 months into the program I have
>yet to seek out a sponser.
>
>If you want a Sponsor who you might never met f2f, you could find
>such a one through joining certain internet AA groups.
>
>JB
>
>
I'm not that big on sponsorship as it is practiced these days, still,
if you are going to have one it would seem to me having someone where
you have a f2f interaction would be for the best.

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11-30-2004, 07:10 PM

"Tom" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fp5qq095o699uf4pt8flb7186pp8bt2uih@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 00:42:02 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"cucumber" <nolongerpickled@sober.com> wrote in message
> >news:41A92629.3070107@sober.com...
> >> And some people wonder why, after 3 months into the program I
have
> >yet to seek out a sponser.
> >
> >If you want a Sponsor who you might never met f2f, you could find
> >such a one through joining certain internet AA groups.
> >
> >JB
> >
> >
> I'm not that big on sponsorship as it is practiced these days,
still,
> if you are going to have one it would seem to me having someone
where
> you have a f2f interaction would be for the best.
>
Why ?

JB

nospam@nospam.com

11-30-2004, 08:18 PM

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:46:24 -0500, "freespeakers"
<freespeakers@for.less> wrote:

>Is my sponsor turing gay?
>I was just wondering how long do I have to go before I can get a
>discount on my sponsor.
>He is beginning to be expensive and his dick is starting to taste like
>shit.
>

Thats easy to solve. After he falls asleep, take a sharp knife and
cut his cock off. Or use your teeth and bite it off.

Scott W

11-30-2004, 09:54 PM

In article <jdaqq0drsug5f2amij6ujgn5i2ljrcrv4q@4ax.com>,
nospam@nospam.com says...
> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:46:24 -0500, "freespeakers"
> <freespeakers@for.less> wrote:
>
> >Is my sponsor turing gay?
> >I was just wondering how long do I have to go before I can get a
> >discount on my sponsor.
> >He is beginning to be expensive and his dick is starting to taste like
> >shit.
> >
>
> Thats easy to solve. After he falls asleep, take a sharp knife and
> cut his cock off. Or use your teeth and bite it off.
>
>
That's an old prison trick. When I was locked up
in Shawshank, these gay guys kept trying to
rape me in the laundry room. I threatened to
bite the guy's dick off so they beat the shit
out of me and then raped me the next day. Finally,
I got in good with the warden giving him enemas
every day and when those fruits tried to rape my
ass again, the guards beat them up real good.
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Tom

11-30-2004, 10:00 PM

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 01:10:44 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

>
>Why ?
>
>JB

Why what? Not being big on sponsorship as it seems to be today or why
f2f? Or just why as in why?

To attempt an anwer.../ Mostly my personal opinion based on my
personal experience.

When I got sober in 75 the phone was the thing and I didn't much care
for it. Still don't. So, today with email, ng's, etc. I imagine I have
transferred my 75 phone feelings. Plus.../ f2f/ aa/ sex/ or whatever
seems just more real to me ...

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12-01-2004, 02:52 AM

"Tom" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cvfqq0pvo8td1792vvfagk3eeajcd9mi5q@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 01:10:44 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Why ?
> >
> >JB
>
> Why what? Not being big on sponsorship as it seems to be today or
why
> f2f? Or just why as in why?

Why f2f ?

> To attempt an anwer.../ Mostly my personal opinion based on my
> personal experience.
>
> When I got sober in 75 the phone was the thing and I didn't much
care
> for it. Still don't. So, today with email, ng's, etc. I imagine I
have
> transferred my 75 phone feelings. Plus.../ f2f/ aa/ sex/ or whatever
> seems just more real to me ...

OK. I met my Sponsor via the internet. When I quit drinking in 2003,
I did not want to go to f2f AA meetings. Instead I joined the other
ARAA. For weeks I read it and posted to it everyday. As a
result, I came to think that a certain person might make for me a very
good Sponsor. They accepted my invitation to take on the job.

Through emails via the other ARAA and private emails and telephone
calls my Sponsor has shared their story with me, given me good advice,
taught me the Steps and passed on to me other AA wisdom me , and
supported me through rough patches. If what my Sponsor has done for
me is what a Sponsor is supposed to do, then clearly it can be done
without there being any f2f contact.

ATB

JB

Tom

12-01-2004, 08:15 AM

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 08:52:20 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

> If what my Sponsor has done for
>me is what a Sponsor is supposed to do, then clearly it can be done
>without there being any f2f contact.
>
>ATB
>
>JB

I'm sure it can. Also if that is what has and is working for you
great. Working being the operative word here.

Still if I were to cast a vote my vote would be for f2f meetings and
f2f sponsorship....which only is only that, my vote. The last election
(political) here my vote didn't amount to much outside of meeting
several peoples idea of giving me bitching rights because I cast it.
Hah ha!

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Tara

12-01-2004, 10:47 AM

Tom wrote:
>
> On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 08:52:20 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:
>
> > If what my Sponsor has done for
> >me is what a Sponsor is supposed to do, then clearly it can be done
> >without there being any f2f contact.
> >
> >ATB
> >
> >JB
>
> I'm sure it can. Also if that is what has and is working for you
> great. Working being the operative word here.
>
> Still if I were to cast a vote my vote would be for f2f meetings and
> f2f sponsorship....which only is only that, my vote. The last election
> (political) here my vote didn't amount to much outside of meeting
> several peoples idea of giving me bitching rights because I cast it.
> Hah ha!

GOOD FOR YOU!

Now....bitch away :-)

Tara

freespeech

12-01-2004, 05:13 PM

Tom wrote:
|| On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 08:52:20 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:
||
||| If what my Sponsor has done for
||| me is what a Sponsor is supposed to do, then clearly it can be done
||| without there being any f2f contact.
|||
||| ATB
|||
||| JB
||
|| I'm sure it can. Also if that is what has and is working for you
|| great. Working being the operative word here.
||
|| Still if I were to cast a vote my vote would be for f2f meetings and
|| f2f sponsorship....which only is only that, my vote. The last
|| election (political) here my vote didn't amount to much outside of
|| meeting
|| several peoples idea of giving me bitching rights because I cast it.
|| Hah ha!
||

Politics aside, I surely agree with your comments on F2F meetings and
sponsorship.

||
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|| Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 -
|| http://www.uncensored-news.com <><><><><><><> The
|| Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>

freespeech

12-01-2004, 05:15 PM

JB wrote:
|| "Tom" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
|| news:cvfqq0pvo8td1792vvfagk3eeajcd9mi5q@4ax.com...
||| On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 01:10:44 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:
|||
||||
|||| Why ?
||||
|||| JB
|||
||| Why what? Not being big on sponsorship as it seems to be today or
||| why f2f? Or just why as in why?
||
|| Why f2f ?
||
||| To attempt an anwer.../ Mostly my personal opinion based on my
||| personal experience.
|||
||| When I got sober in 75 the phone was the thing and I didn't much
||| care for it. Still don't. So, today with email, ng's, etc. I
||| imagine I have transferred my 75 phone feelings. Plus.../ f2f/ aa/
||| sex/ or whatever seems just more real to me ...
||
|| OK. I met my Sponsor via the internet. When I quit drinking in
|| 2003, I did not want to go to f2f AA meetings. Instead I joined the
|| other ARAA. For weeks I read it and posted to it everyday. As a
|| result, I came to think that a certain person might make for me a
|| very good Sponsor. They accepted my invitation to take on the job.
||
|| Through emails via the other ARAA and private emails and telephone
|| calls my Sponsor has shared their story with me, given me good
|| advice, taught me the Steps and passed on to me other AA wisdom me ,
|| and supported me through rough patches. If what my Sponsor has done
|| for me is what a Sponsor is supposed to do, then clearly it can be
|| done without there being any f2f contact.
||
|| ATB

Obviously, in your case, it's worked just fine. For you. Once again, we see
that there is no hard and fast rule for EVERYONE. Personally speaking,
though, giving my defects, F2F works better for me. Harder to lie F2F.

||
|| JB

12-01-2004, 05:36 PM

"freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
news:Cgsrd.252101$9b.251005@edtnps84...

> Personally speaking,
> though, giving my defects, F2F works better for me. Harder to lie
F2F.
>
Why do you think it is harder to lie in f2f situations ? If
alcoholics X and Y are accomplished liers when they are drinking why,
when they stop drinking should they not continue to be capable of
lying whenever doing so suits their needs ?

JB

Tara

12-01-2004, 05:47 PM

JB wrote:
>
> "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
> news:Cgsrd.252101$9b.251005@edtnps84...
>
> > Personally speaking,
> > though, giving my defects, F2F works better for me. Harder to lie
> F2F.
> >
> Why do you think it is harder to lie in f2f situations ? If
> alcoholics X and Y are accomplished liers when they are drinking why,
> when they stop drinking should they not continue to be capable of
> lying whenever doing so suits their needs ?
>

Its the shifty eyes. Gives them away every time.

Tara

12-01-2004, 05:59 PM

"Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:41AE5773.11723C44@verizon.net...
> JB wrote:
> >
> > "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
message
> > news:Cgsrd.252101$9b.251005@edtnps84...
> >
> > > Personally speaking,
> > > though, giving my defects, F2F works better for me. Harder to
lie
> > F2F.
> > >
> > Why do you think it is harder to lie in f2f situations ? If
> > alcoholics X and Y are accomplished liers when they are drinking
why,
> > when they stop drinking should they not continue to be capable of
> > lying whenever doing so suits their needs ?
> >
>
> Its the shifty eyes. Gives them away every time.
>
> Tara

You've mixed only with novices ?

JB :^)

rosie readandpost

12-01-2004, 07:52 PM

:
: Obviously, in your case, it's worked just fine. For you. Once
again, we see
: that there is no hard and fast rule for EVERYONE. Personally
speaking,
: though, giving my defects, F2F works better for me. Harder to lie
F2F.
:

i apparently am just like you freespeech.....................i
needed close attention, in my early sobriety, and FACE2FACE was the
way i got it!

my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i believe
some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.

rosie

"freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
news:Cgsrd.252101$9b.251005@edtnps84...
: JB wrote:
: || "Tom" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: || news:cvfqq0pvo8td1792vvfagk3eeajcd9mi5q@4ax.com...
: ||| On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 01:10:44 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
wrote:
: |||
: ||||
: |||| Why ?
: ||||
: |||| JB
: |||
: ||| Why what? Not being big on sponsorship as it seems to be today
or
: ||| why f2f? Or just why as in why?
: ||
: || Why f2f ?
: ||
: ||| To attempt an anwer.../ Mostly my personal opinion based on my
: ||| personal experience.
: |||
: ||| When I got sober in 75 the phone was the thing and I didn't
much
: ||| care for it. Still don't. So, today with email, ng's, etc. I
: ||| imagine I have transferred my 75 phone feelings. Plus.../ f2f/
aa/
: ||| sex/ or whatever seems just more real to me ...
: ||
: || OK. I met my Sponsor via the internet. When I quit drinking
in
: || 2003, I did not want to go to f2f AA meetings. Instead I
joined the
: || other ARAA. For weeks I read it and posted to it everyday.
As a
: || result, I came to think that a certain person might make for me
a
: || very good Sponsor. They accepted my invitation to take on the
job.
: ||
: || Through emails via the other ARAA and private emails and
telephone
: || calls my Sponsor has shared their story with me, given me good
: || advice, taught me the Steps and passed on to me other AA wisdom
me ,
: || and supported me through rough patches. If what my Sponsor has
done
: || for me is what a Sponsor is supposed to do, then clearly it can
be
: || done without there being any f2f contact.
: ||
: || ATB

freespeech

12-01-2004, 08:10 PM

rosie readandpost wrote:
||| Obviously, in your case, it's worked just fine. For you. Once
||| again, we see that there is no hard and fast rule for EVERYONE.
||| Personally speaking, though, giving my defects, F2F works better
||| for me. Harder to lie F2F.
|||
||
||
|| i apparently am just like you freespeech.....................i

Not really. You are a hot babe, while I am just....another facet of Sharx.

|| needed close attention, in my early sobriety, and FACE2FACE was the
|| way i got it!
||
|| my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
|| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i believe
|| some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
||
|| rosie
||
||
|| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
|| news:Cgsrd.252101$9b.251005@edtnps84...
||| JB wrote:
||||| "Tom" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
||||| news:cvfqq0pvo8td1792vvfagk3eeajcd9mi5q@4ax.com...
|||||| On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 01:10:44 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
|||||| wrote:
||||||
|||||||
||||||| Why ?
|||||||
||||||| JB
||||||
|||||| Why what? Not being big on sponsorship as it seems to be today or
|||||| why f2f? Or just why as in why?
|||||
||||| Why f2f ?
|||||
|||||| To attempt an anwer.../ Mostly my personal opinion based on my
|||||| personal experience.
||||||
|||||| When I got sober in 75 the phone was the thing and I didn't much
|||||| care for it. Still don't. So, today with email, ng's, etc. I
|||||| imagine I have transferred my 75 phone feelings. Plus.../ f2f/
|||||| aa/ sex/ or whatever seems just more real to me ...
|||||
||||| OK. I met my Sponsor via the internet. When I quit drinking in
||||| 2003, I did not want to go to f2f AA meetings. Instead I joined
||||| the other ARAA. For weeks I read it and posted to it everyday.
||||| As a result, I came to think that a certain person might make for
||||| me a very good Sponsor. They accepted my invitation to take on
||||| the job.
|||||
||||| Through emails via the other ARAA and private emails and telephone
||||| calls my Sponsor has shared their story with me, given me good
||||| advice, taught me the Steps and passed on to me other AA wisdom
||||| me , and supported me through rough patches. If what my Sponsor
||||| has done for me is what a Sponsor is supposed to do, then clearly
||||| it can be done without there being any f2f contact.
|||||
||||| ATB

freespeech

12-01-2004, 08:26 PM

Tara wrote:
|| JB wrote:
|||
||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
||| news:Cgsrd.252101$9b.251005@edtnps84...
|||
|||| Personally speaking,
|||| though, giving my defects, F2F works better for me. Harder to lie
|||| F2F.
||||
||| Why do you think it is harder to lie in f2f situations ? If
||| alcoholics X and Y are accomplished liers when they are drinking
||| why, when they stop drinking should they not continue to be capable
||| of lying whenever doing so suits their needs ?
|||
||
|| Its the shifty eyes. Gives them away every time.

Nah, that just confirms that they are chronic mastu**tors.

||
|| Tara

Tara

12-01-2004, 09:13 PM

rosie readandpost wrote:

> my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i believe
> some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.

See?
I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.

Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't make it
an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word "different". Just once.
Without it being a backhanded put down. It won't hurt. I promise.

And, by the way, I personally believe f2f was better for me as well. I
actually suspect for many it might lead to better awarenesses. But I
don't believe the other is any "less than" or even necessarily "easier".
Crikey, half the people at meetings around here are only there because
its the easiest way to hook up with friends for coffee. How is that not
the "easier softer" way?

Tara

Scott W

12-01-2004, 09:18 PM

In article <41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net>, taragreen2@verizon.net
says...
> rosie readandpost wrote:
>
> > my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> > alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i believe
> > some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
>
> See?
> I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
>
> Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't make it
> an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word "different". Just once.
> Without it being a backhanded put down. It won't hurt. I promise.
>
> And, by the way, I personally believe f2f was better for me as well. I
> actually suspect for many it might lead to better awarenesses. But I
> don't believe the other is any "less than" or even necessarily "easier".
> Crikey, half the people at meetings around here are only there because
> its the easiest way to hook up with friends for coffee. How is that not
> the "easier softer" way?
>
> Tara
>
Right on! Just because Rosie like to be psychologically
tortured, doesn't mean that the rest of us do!
Too bad there's so many sadomasochist drunks.
I'd rather drink than deal with those kinds of
people. Next thing they'll want you to hang
from a ceiling fan with a razer spiked dildo
shoved up your ass!
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

[[]]

12-01-2004, 09:35 PM

"Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
> rosie readandpost wrote:
>
>> my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
>> alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i believe
>> some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.

Tara- In my case Rosie's correct in believing some choose an "easier,
softer, way". I did. I managed nine years to remain alcohol free. I never
went to meetings, never had a sponsor. I knew I could handle it myself. I
was wrong. My relapse lasted fifteen years.

-Steve

> See?
> I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
>
> Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't make it
> an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word "different". Just once.
> Without it being a backhanded put down. It won't hurt. I promise.

Kai R

12-02-2004, 02:26 AM

Scott W wrote:

> Next thing they'll want you to hang
> from a ceiling fan with a razer spiked dildo
> shoved up your ass!

I hate it when that happens.

Kai

12-02-2004, 03:51 AM

"Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
> rosie readandpost wrote:
>
> > my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> > alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
believe
> > some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
>
> See?
> I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
>
> Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
make it
> an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word "different". Just
once.

<snip>

> Tara

Well said Tara.

Now, this thread has made me think:

To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in order to
not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?

Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise other
AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?

Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise the
methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal they've
decided they want to achieve in respect of their drinking ?

Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on a
daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for joy ?

JB

freespeech

12-02-2004, 04:31 AM

[[]] wrote:
|| "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
|| news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
||| rosie readandpost wrote:
|||
|||| my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
|||| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
|||| believe some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
||
|| Tara- In my case Rosie's correct in believing some choose an "easier,
|| softer, way". I did. I managed nine years to remain alcohol free. I
|| never went to meetings, never had a sponsor. I knew I could handle
|| it myself. I was wrong. My relapse lasted fifteen years.
||
|| -Steve
||
||| See?
||| I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
|||
||| Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
||| make it an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word
||| "different". Just once. Without it being a backhanded put down. It
||| won't hurt. I promise.

You thumper bashers should take heed!

freespeech

12-02-2004, 04:32 AM

JB wrote:
|| "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
|| news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
||| rosie readandpost wrote:
|||
|||| my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
|||| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
|||| believe some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
|||
||| See?
||| I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
|||
||| Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
||| make it an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word
||| "different". Just once.
||
|| <snip>
||
||| Tara
||
|| Well said Tara.
||
|| Now, this thread has made me think:
||
|| To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in order to
|| not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?
||
|| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise other
|| AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?
||
|| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise the
|| methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal they've
|| decided they want to achieve in respect of their drinking ?
||
|| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on a
|| daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for joy ?
||
|| JB

When the REST of their life obviously sucks? I do NOT think so.

rosie readandpost

12-02-2004, 07:51 AM

: ||
: || i apparently am just like you freespeech.....................i
:
: Not really. You are a hot babe, while I am just....another facet
of Sharx.
:
:
:

LOL!
those days are long gone, i'm afraid!

rosie readandpost

12-02-2004, 07:55 AM

"Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
: rosie readandpost wrote:
:
: > my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
: > alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
believe
: > some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
:
: See?
: I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
:
: Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
make it
: an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word "different". Just
once.
: Without it being a backhanded put down. It won't hurt. I promise.
:
:

i'm sorry that you found my answer arrogant.......................MY
alcoholic self DID want the easier, softer, way, and NOT having a
F2F sponsor would have been what i would have chosen.
(we were talking about F2F sponsors right?)

rosie

rosie readandpost

12-02-2004, 08:01 AM

:
: To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in order
to
: not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?

why must you think that you are being "put down" everytime i post
something?
i cannot count how many times i have included YMMV in my postings to
you and others..................that "this is what works for
me"...................how many more disclaimers must i include in my
postings to make you feel better about yourself and your choices?

:
: Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
other
: AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?

then JB i would suggest that you stop asking folks to share THEIR
ESH.....................your interpretations invariably are some
kind of "put down"

:
: Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
the
: methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal they've
: decided they want to achieve in respect of their drinking ?

this is where YMMV, and WHATEVER WORKS comes into play!
it is NOT a put down, it is an acknowledgement that "my way, is not
the only way".

:
: Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on a
: daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for joy
?
:
: JB
:
:

ABSOLUTELY!
we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?

rosie readandpost

12-02-2004, 08:02 AM

: || Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages
on a
: || daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for
joy ?
: ||
: || JB

"freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com>
:
: When the REST of their life obviously sucks? I do NOT think so.
:
:

i agree...............

Dem Feckers

12-02-2004, 08:05 AM

"Scott W" <hans_spoon@yahoo.de> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c183772883f11b39896b7@News.Individual.NE T...
> In article <41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net>, taragreen2@verizon.net
> says...
> > rosie readandpost wrote:
> >
> > > my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> > > alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
believe
> > > some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
> >
> > See?
> > I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
> >
> > Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
make it
> > an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word "different". Just
once.
> > Without it being a backhanded put down. It won't hurt. I promise.
> >
> > And, by the way, I personally believe f2f was better for me as well.
I
> > actually suspect for many it might lead to better awarenesses. But I
> > don't believe the other is any "less than" or even necessarily
"easier".
> > Crikey, half the people at meetings around here are only there
because
> > its the easiest way to hook up with friends for coffee. How is that
not
> > the "easier softer" way?
> >
> > Tara
> >
> Right on! Just because Rosie like to be psychologically
> tortured, doesn't mean that the rest of us do!
> Too bad there's so many sadomasochist drunks.
> I'd rather drink than deal with those kinds of
> people. Next thing they'll want you to hang
> from a ceiling fan with a razer spiked dildo
> shoved up your ass!

In order to stay sober you must deal with your homosexuality.

But first you can ignore it with a pink cloud.
After some time your memories will go back to when you were butt fucked
by who ever played your daddy.

Dem Feckers

12-02-2004, 08:11 AM

"[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
news:14wrd.10953$lB6.4943@fe14.usenetserver.com...
>
> "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
> > rosie readandpost wrote:
> >
> >> my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> >> alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
believe
> >> some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
>
> Tara- In my case Rosie's correct in believing some choose an "easier,
> softer, way". I did. I managed nine years to remain alcohol free. I
never
> went to meetings, never had a sponsor. I knew I could handle it
myself. I
> was wrong. My relapse lasted fifteen years.

It takes a real man to battle alcoholism on the streets.

You have gain a conscious contact with the force that handles the spiral
eccentricities of the universe without being flung off the earths
gravitational spin.

I have to accept the fact that my family did bongs with George
Washington at Valley Forge and almost perished if it were not for the
French to save our country and promote individual sovereignity.

Dem Feckers

12-02-2004, 08:17 AM

"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:comoee$53s$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...

> Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on a
> daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for joy ?

Yahoo, 7721 days 15 hours and 45 minutes!

And I'm still trying to get this goddamned microchip out of my back.

Dem Feckers

12-02-2004, 08:19 AM

"freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
news:OaCrd.223903$df2.170679@edtnps89...
> JB wrote:
> || "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
> || news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
> ||| rosie readandpost wrote:
> |||
> |||| my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> |||| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
> |||| believe some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
> |||
> ||| See?
> ||| I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
> |||
> ||| Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
> ||| make it an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word
> ||| "different". Just once.
> ||
> || <snip>
> ||
> ||| Tara
> ||
> || Well said Tara.
> ||
> || Now, this thread has made me think:
> ||
> || To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in order
to
> || not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?
> ||
> || Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
other
> || AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?
> ||
> || Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise the
> || methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal they've
> || decided they want to achieve in respect of their drinking ?
> ||
> || Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on a
> || daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for joy ?
> ||
> || JB
>
> When the REST of their life obviously sucks? I do NOT think so.

It may suck through your shit stained glasses.

But never judge a man without first walking in his shoes.

Exterminate the christian government.

Dem Feckers

12-02-2004, 08:20 AM

" rosie readandpost" <readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KfFrd.106892$T02.103257@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> : || Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages
> on a
> : || daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for
> joy ?
> : ||
> : || JB
>
>
> "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com>
> :
> : When the REST of their life obviously sucks? I do NOT think so.
> :
> :
>
>
> i agree...............

But you are easy enough to be manipulated to think otherwise.

voodoo disease 666

12-02-2004, 08:59 AM

" rosie readandpost" <readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zeFrd.106891$T02.15351@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> :
> : To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in order
> to
> : not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?
>
>
> why must you think that you are being "put down" everytime i post
> something?

I do not.
> :
> : Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
> other
> : AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?
>
>
> then JB i would suggest that you stop asking folks to share THEIR
> ESH.....................

I do not.

>your interpretations invariably are some
> kind of "put down"
>
As you often put me in your killfile, and therefore are not able to
see much of what I post, you are saying here only what *you* believe
to be true.

> : Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on a
> : daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for joy
> ?
> :
> : JB

> ABSOLUTELY!
> we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?
>
The word "sobriety" means different things to different people.
Therefore I in response to your question I will say only that if
alcoholics who have quit drinking are content that what they are doing
in their not-drinking life is what they need to keep doing in order to
not again drink alcohol if they think that it is not in their best
interests to do so, then I ought to be happy for them.

JB

12-02-2004, 09:14 AM

" rosie readandpost" <readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:39Frd.106890$T02.62392@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
> : rosie readandpost wrote:
> :
> : > my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> : > alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
> believe
> : > some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
> :
> : See?
> : I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
> :
> : Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
> make it
> : an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word "different". Just
> once.
> : Without it being a backhanded put down. It won't hurt. I promise.
> :
> :
>
> i'm sorry that you found my answer arrogant.......................MY
> alcoholic self DID want the easier, softer, way, and NOT having a
> F2F sponsor would have been what i would have chosen.
> (we were talking about F2F sponsors right?)
>
> rosie
>
Rosie,

When you quit drinking in 1982), was the internet operating ? If not,
perhaps, the only way someone who wanted an AA Sponsor could get one
was by meeting AA folk face to face. The internet makes it possible
for such folk to have a wider choice of "role models" from which to
choose their Sponsor. Should this not to be welcomed ?

JB

Scott W

12-02-2004, 11:32 AM

In article <con7f402dn6@enews1.newsguy.com>, repo@bli.can says...
>
> "Scott W" <hans_spoon@yahoo.de> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1c183772883f11b39896b7@News.Individual.NE T...
> > In article <41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net>, taragreen2@verizon.net
> > says...
> > > rosie readandpost wrote:
> > >
> > > > my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> > > > alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
> believe
> > > > some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
> > >
> > > See?
> > > I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
> > >
> > > Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
> make it
> > > an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word "different". Just
> once.
> > > Without it being a backhanded put down. It won't hurt. I promise.
> > >
> > > And, by the way, I personally believe f2f was better for me as well.
> I
> > > actually suspect for many it might lead to better awarenesses. But I
> > > don't believe the other is any "less than" or even necessarily
> "easier".
> > > Crikey, half the people at meetings around here are only there
> because
> > > its the easiest way to hook up with friends for coffee. How is that
> not
> > > the "easier softer" way?
> > >
> > > Tara
> > >
> > Right on! Just because Rosie like to be psychologically
> > tortured, doesn't mean that the rest of us do!
> > Too bad there's so many sadomasochist drunks.
> > I'd rather drink than deal with those kinds of
> > people. Next thing they'll want you to hang
> > from a ceiling fan with a razer spiked dildo
> > shoved up your ass!
>
> In order to stay sober you must deal with your homosexuality.
>
> But first you can ignore it with a pink cloud.
> After some time your memories will go back to when you were butt fucked
> by who ever played your daddy.
>
So, since that's what happened to you, that's obviously
what happened to me and everyone else? Wow! What a revelation,
you shit-packing, daddy fucking, child-molesting retard!
You will burn in Hell in the name of Jesus! The best part
of you dripped out your mamma's asshole! Asshole!

--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Scott W

12-02-2004, 11:33 AM

In article <comjg6$sj7$2@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>,
soberon.nospam@luukku.com.invalid says...
> Scott W wrote:
>
> > Next thing they'll want you to hang
> > from a ceiling fan with a razer spiked dildo
> > shoved up your ass!
>
> I hate it when that happens.
>
> Kai
>
Do you? Some people quite like it.
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

freespeech

12-02-2004, 04:22 PM

rosie readandpost wrote:
|| "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
|| news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
||| rosie readandpost wrote:
|||
|||| my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
|||| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
|||| believe some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
|||
||| See?
||| I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
|||
||| Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
||| make it an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word
||| "different". Just once. Without it being a backhanded put down. It
||| won't hurt. I promise.
|||
|||
||
|| i'm sorry that you found my answer arrogant.......................MY
|| alcoholic self DID want the easier, softer, way, and NOT having a
|| F2F sponsor would have been what i would have chosen.
|| (we were talking about F2F sponsors right?)
||
|| rosie

AARGH! Politics aside, we actually agree on a few things.

freespeech

12-02-2004, 04:23 PM

JB wrote:
|| " rosie readandpost" <readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com> wrote in
|| message news:39Frd.106890$T02.62392@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
|||
|||
||| "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
||| news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
|||| rosie readandpost wrote:
||||
||||| my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
||||| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
||||| believe some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
||||
|||| See?
|||| I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
||||
|||| Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
|||| make it an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word
|||| "different". Just once. Without it being a backhanded put down. It
|||| won't hurt. I promise.
||||
||||
|||
||| i'm sorry that you found my answer arrogant.......................MY
||| alcoholic self DID want the easier, softer, way, and NOT having a
||| F2F sponsor would have been what i would have chosen.
||| (we were talking about F2F sponsors right?)
|||
||| rosie
|||
|| Rosie,
||
|| When you quit drinking in 1982), was the internet operating ? If
|| not, perhaps, the only way someone who wanted an AA Sponsor could
|| get one was by meeting AA folk face to face. The internet makes it
|| possible for such folk to have a wider choice of "role models" from
|| which to choose their Sponsor. Should this not to be welcomed ?
||
|| JB

It's much, much easier to ignore an ONLINE sponsor.

freespeech

12-02-2004, 04:24 PM

rosie readandpost wrote:
||| To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in order to
||| not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?
||
||
|| why must you think that you are being "put down" everytime i post
|| something?
|| i cannot count how many times i have included YMMV in my postings to
|| you and others..................that "this is what works for
|| me"...................how many more disclaimers must i include in my
|| postings to make you feel better about yourself and your choices?
||
||
|||
||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
||| other AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?
||
||
|| then JB i would suggest that you stop asking folks to share THEIR
|| ESH.....................your interpretations invariably are some
|| kind of "put down"
||
||
|||
||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise the
||| methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal they've
||| decided they want to achieve in respect of their drinking ?
||
|| this is where YMMV, and WHATEVER WORKS comes into play!
|| it is NOT a put down, it is an acknowledgement that "my way, is not
|| the only way".
||
||
||
||
||
|||
||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on a
||| daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for joy ?
|||
||| JB
|||
|||
||
|| ABSOLUTELY!
|| we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?

Hopefully. Perhaps JB considers absence of alcohol enough. Pity.

Scott W

12-02-2004, 04:56 PM

In article <_CMrd.224992$df2.69819@edtnps89>,
youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com says...
> rosie readandpost wrote:
> ||| To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in order to
> ||| not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?
> ||
> ||
> || why must you think that you are being "put down" everytime i post
> || something?
> || i cannot count how many times i have included YMMV in my postings to
> || you and others..................that "this is what works for
> || me"...................how many more disclaimers must i include in my
> || postings to make you feel better about yourself and your choices?
> ||
> ||
> |||
> ||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
> ||| other AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?
> ||
> ||
> || then JB i would suggest that you stop asking folks to share THEIR
> || ESH.....................your interpretations invariably are some
> || kind of "put down"
> ||
> ||
> |||
> ||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise the
> ||| methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal they've
> ||| decided they want to achieve in respect of their drinking ?
> ||
> || this is where YMMV, and WHATEVER WORKS comes into play!
> || it is NOT a put down, it is an acknowledgement that "my way, is not
> || the only way".
> ||
> ||
> ||
> ||
> ||
> |||
> ||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on a
> ||| daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for joy ?
> |||
> ||| JB
> |||
> |||
> ||
> || ABSOLUTELY!
> || we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?
>
>
> Hopefully. Perhaps JB considers absence of alcohol enough. Pity.
>
>
>
Absence of alcohol IS enough. That's the goal, not
some pie in the sky religious experience. I take
LSD for that.
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Tara

12-02-2004, 05:36 PM

freespeech wrote:
>
> JB wrote:
> || "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
> || news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
> ||| rosie readandpost wrote:
> |||
> |||| my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> |||| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
> |||| believe some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
> |||
> ||| See?
> ||| I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
> |||
> ||| Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
> ||| make it an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word
> ||| "different". Just once.
> ||
> || <snip>
> ||
> ||| Tara
> ||
> || Well said Tara.
> ||
> || Now, this thread has made me think:
> ||
> || To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in order to
> || not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?
> ||
> || Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise other
> || AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?
> ||
> || Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise the
> || methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal they've
> || decided they want to achieve in respect of their drinking ?
> ||
> || Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on a
> || daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for joy ?
> ||
> || JB
>
> When the REST of their life obviously sucks? I do NOT think so.

Yeah, meanwhile we're supposed to emulate *your* pathetic self?

I don't think so.

Tara

12-02-2004, 06:11 PM

"freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
news:PBMrd.224989$df2.76049@edtnps89...
>
> It's much, much easier to ignore an ONLINE sponsor.

IMO *any* Sponsor's advice can be ignored. I know a lady who goes to
the same f2f meeting that I do who has on more than one occasion
ignored her Sponsor's advice to her to not pick up a drink when she's
feeling unable to cope but rather picks up the phone and calls her
Sponsor or another AA member who's phone number she has. Other advice
which has been passed on to this lady by her Sponsor because it was
advice that her Sponsor has been given and gained benefit from, has
also been ignored. This lady continues to drink and has made several
attempts to commit suicide. In contrast, her Sponsor continues to not
drink and when she applies AA's teachings to her conduct, invariably
(I think that's the right word) she finds it easier to cope with her
life. If this lady Sponsee decides that she might benefit from having
a
different Sponsor - or no Sponsor - she could ditch the one she now
has. However, fundamentally, if she doesn't want to stop drinking,
why bother to do this ?

JB

12-02-2004, 07:00 PM

"freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
news:_CMrd.224992$df2.69819@edtnps89...
JB wrote
> ||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on
a
> ||| daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for
joy ?
> |||
> ||| JB
> |||
> |||
> ||
Rosie wrote:
> || ABSOLUTELY!
> || we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?
>
>
> Hopefully. Perhaps JB considers absence of alcohol enough. Pity.
>
Freespeech, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so what makes
you think that you have it ?

Rosie, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so, what make *you*
think that you have it ?

I'm asking these questions because your comments suggest to me that
you have ideas about what "sobriety" is and also therefore, what it is
not. Please share your wisdom.

JB

Scott W

12-02-2004, 07:33 PM

In article <coodlu$gpo$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, JBCatRB@coldman.com
says...
>
> "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
> news:_CMrd.224992$df2.69819@edtnps89...
> JB wrote
> > ||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on
> a
> > ||| daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for
> joy ?
> > |||
> > ||| JB
> > |||
> > |||
> > ||
> Rosie wrote:
> > || ABSOLUTELY!
> > || we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?
> >
> >
> > Hopefully. Perhaps JB considers absence of alcohol enough. Pity.
> >
> Freespeech, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so what makes
> you think that you have it ?
>
> Rosie, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so, what make *you*
> think that you have it ?
>
> I'm asking these questions because your comments suggest to me that
> you have ideas about what "sobriety" is and also therefore, what it is
> not. Please share your wisdom.
>
Sobriety is a state of non-intoxication. Nothing else.
Thought and words mean nothing. Only your actions count for
anything.

--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

GaryE

12-02-2004, 07:47 PM

On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 09:51:18 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

>
>Well said Tara.
>
>Now, this thread has made me think:
>
>To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in order to
>not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?
>
>Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise other
>AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?
>
>Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise the
>methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal they've
>decided they want to achieve in respect of their drinking ?
>
>Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on a
>daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for joy ?
>
>JB
>

Just simply applause........another person with a heart....it's really
not important if it's not done 'the right way' (whatever that is).
Compassion is not such a tough trick if one can look at humans as
humans and not as 'bad examples' to elevate one's own standings.
Bully for you and Tara.

Best,
GaryE

Tara

12-02-2004, 07:52 PM

GaryE wrote:

> Just simply applause........another person with a heart....it's really
> not important if it's not done 'the right way' (whatever that is).
> Compassion is not such a tough trick if one can look at humans as
> humans and not as 'bad examples' to elevate one's own standings.
> Bully for you and Tara.

Oh my. Have I defiled another one?

I'm going to hell.

Tara

GaryE

12-02-2004, 08:06 PM

On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 00:11:47 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

>"freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
>news:PBMrd.224989$df2.76049@edtnps89...
>>
>> It's much, much easier to ignore an ONLINE sponsor.
>
>IMO *any* Sponsor's advice can be ignored. I know a lady who goes to
>the same f2f meeting that I do who has on more than one occasion
>ignored her Sponsor's advice to her to not pick up a drink when she's
>feeling unable to cope but rather picks up the phone and calls her
>Sponsor or another AA member who's phone number she has. Other advice
>which has been passed on to this lady by her Sponsor because it was
>advice that her Sponsor has been given and gained benefit from, has
>also been ignored. This lady continues to drink and has made several
>attempts to commit suicide. In contrast, her Sponsor continues to not
>drink and when she applies AA's teachings to her conduct, invariably
>(I think that's the right word) she finds it easier to cope with her
>life. If this lady Sponsee decides that she might benefit from having
>a
>different Sponsor - or no Sponsor - she could ditch the one she now
>has. However, fundamentally, if she doesn't want to stop drinking,
>why bother to do this ?
>
>JB
>
>
JB,

Its the nuances that make these folks experts, you see. The statement
this joke made can't be validated. I've known people in AA who did
the 12 Steps who had a sponsor and who wound up as drunk as anyone
else. Wound up as dead as anyone else. Any claim that a sponsor and
f2f is The Way ignores the facts of what has happened. The statement
that "rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed
our path' is sheer hyperbole but effective motivational language. It
is not a true statement though.

There are people in AA sober without doing it The Right Way and there
are people in AA who 'done it The Right Way' who aren't. If the
Thumps didn't insist on the Book being infallible, more might have
been revealed already that the evidence doesn't always comport with
the claims of the bB. That is, of course, heretical to those mountain
top people who feel the inner need for something to elevate themselves
and creating pecking orders in AA. The ones who want you to think
they are the pillars of AA are actually, in many cases, AA's worst
nightmare. Ego gone wild disguised under the banner of BB
memorization. And if you try to reason and talk with those bird
brains, all you get is a 'back handed put down' and then righteous
indignation when you point it out. They never make mistakes and never
had to admit to one. Fonzie kind of thing, I guess.

What is truly great about AA is those who don't feel the need to
continuially make comparisons, to do negative inventories, but who
believe in one drunk helping another as the real foundation of what
makes AA and those people shine. These folks, in my experience, are
not in the minority (it's the friggin' iknow it alls who are in the
minority) but make up the majority of people in AA. They just don't
go around shooting their mouth off all the time and 'carrying the
message' where the message isn't even needed.

Best,
GaryE

Gail

12-02-2004, 09:21 PM

JB wrote:
> "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
> news:PBMrd.224989$df2.76049@edtnps89...
>>
>> It's much, much easier to ignore an ONLINE sponsor.
>
> IMO *any* Sponsor's advice can be ignored. I know a lady who goes to
> the same f2f meeting that I do who has on more than one occasion
> ignored her Sponsor's advice to her to not pick up a drink when she's
> feeling unable to cope but rather picks up the phone and calls her
> Sponsor or another AA member who's phone number she has. Other advice
> which has been passed on to this lady by her Sponsor because it was
> advice that her Sponsor has been given and gained benefit from, has
> also been ignored. This lady continues to drink and has made several
> attempts to commit suicide. In contrast, her Sponsor continues to not
> drink and when she applies AA's teachings to her conduct, invariably
> (I think that's the right word) she finds it easier to cope with her
> life. If this lady Sponsee decides that she might benefit from having
> a
> different Sponsor - or no Sponsor - she could ditch the one she now
> has. However, fundamentally, if she doesn't want to stop drinking,
> why bother to do this ?
>
> JB

It is very common to hear a sponsor say that their sponsee went back out or
is still drinking. I have yet to hear a sponsor say that they have never had
a sponsee go back out.
The poor woman is an alcoholic for God's sake! Maybe she wants like hell to
not drink and to get her life back. For some, it might take a life time to
do that if they survive no matter how Godly the sponsor(s).
Oh and, if the sponsor is having trouble coping with her life then maybe she
shouldn't be sponsoring?
My 2 cents.
Gail

Scott W

12-02-2004, 09:36 PM

In article <H2Rrd.69$eU.27@fe05.lga>, loverules@myhouse.com says...
> JB wrote:
> > "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
> > news:PBMrd.224989$df2.76049@edtnps89...
> >>
> >> It's much, much easier to ignore an ONLINE sponsor.
> >
> > IMO *any* Sponsor's advice can be ignored. I know a lady who goes to
> > the same f2f meeting that I do who has on more than one occasion
> > ignored her Sponsor's advice to her to not pick up a drink when she's
> > feeling unable to cope but rather picks up the phone and calls her
> > Sponsor or another AA member who's phone number she has. Other advice
> > which has been passed on to this lady by her Sponsor because it was
> > advice that her Sponsor has been given and gained benefit from, has
> > also been ignored. This lady continues to drink and has made several
> > attempts to commit suicide. In contrast, her Sponsor continues to not
> > drink and when she applies AA's teachings to her conduct, invariably
> > (I think that's the right word) she finds it easier to cope with her
> > life. If this lady Sponsee decides that she might benefit from having
> > a
> > different Sponsor - or no Sponsor - she could ditch the one she now
> > has. However, fundamentally, if she doesn't want to stop drinking,
> > why bother to do this ?
> >
> > JB
>
> It is very common to hear a sponsor say that their sponsee went back out or
> is still drinking. I have yet to hear a sponsor say that they have never had
> a sponsee go back out.
> The poor woman is an alcoholic for God's sake! Maybe she wants like hell to
> not drink and to get her life back. For some, it might take a life time to
> do that if they survive no matter how Godly the sponsor(s).
> Oh and, if the sponsor is having trouble coping with her life then maybe she
> shouldn't be sponsoring?
> My 2 cents.
> Gail
>
>
>
If she wasn't fucked up in the head, she wouldn't
be in AA in the first place! Alcoholics all have
really deep mental problems.
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

freespeech

12-02-2004, 11:23 PM

Dem Feckers wrote:
|| "[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
|| news:14wrd.10953$lB6.4943@fe14.usenetserver.com...
|||
||| "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
||| news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
|||| rosie readandpost wrote:
||||
||||| my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
||||| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
||||| believe some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
|||
||| Tara- In my case Rosie's correct in believing some choose an
||| "easier, softer, way". I did. I managed nine years to remain
||| alcohol free. I never went to meetings, never had a sponsor. I knew
||| I could handle it myself. I was wrong. My relapse lasted fifteen
||| years.
||
|| It takes a real man to battle alcoholism on the streets.

So, I take it, that your street battle against alcoholism
failed...miserably.

||
|| You have gain a conscious contact with the force that handles the
|| spiral eccentricities of the universe without being flung off the
|| earths gravitational spin.
||
|| I have to accept the fact that my family did bongs with George
|| Washington at Valley Forge and almost perished if it were not for the
|| French to save our country and promote individual sovereignity.

freespeech

12-02-2004, 11:23 PM

Dem Feckers wrote:
|| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
|| news:OaCrd.223903$df2.170679@edtnps89...
||| JB wrote:
||||| "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
||||| news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
|||||| rosie readandpost wrote:
||||||
||||||| my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
||||||| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
||||||| believe some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
||||||
|||||| See?
|||||| I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
||||||
|||||| Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
|||||| make it an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word
|||||| "different". Just once.
|||||
||||| <snip>
|||||
|||||| Tara
|||||
||||| Well said Tara.
|||||
||||| Now, this thread has made me think:
|||||
||||| To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in order
||||| to not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?
|||||
||||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
||||| other AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?
|||||
||||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
||||| the methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal
||||| they've decided they want to achieve in respect of their drinking
||||| ?
|||||
||||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on a
||||| daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for joy
||||| ?
|||||
||||| JB
|||
||| When the REST of their life obviously sucks? I do NOT think so.
||
|| It may suck through your shit stained glasses.
||
|| But never judge a man without first walking in his shoes.

You actually WEAR shoes, rather than chew on them?

||
|| Exterminate the christian government.

freespeech

12-02-2004, 11:24 PM

Dem Feckers wrote:
|| " rosie readandpost" <readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com> wrote in
|| message news:KfFrd.106892$T02.103257@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
|||||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on
|||||| a daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for
|||||| joy ?
||||||
|||||| JB
|||
|||
||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com>
||||
|||| When the REST of their life obviously sucks? I do NOT think so.
||||
||||
|||
|||
||| i agree...............
||
|| But you are easy enough to be manipulated to think otherwise.

Go and manipulate that chip.

||
|| voodoo disease 666

Scott W

12-02-2004, 11:24 PM

In article <YKSrd.270578$9b.149956@edtnps84>,
youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com says...
> Dem Feckers wrote:
> || "[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
> || news:14wrd.10953$lB6.4943@fe14.usenetserver.com...
> |||
> ||| "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
> ||| news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
> |||| rosie readandpost wrote:
> ||||
> ||||| my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> ||||| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
> ||||| believe some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
> |||
> ||| Tara- In my case Rosie's correct in believing some choose an
> ||| "easier, softer, way". I did. I managed nine years to remain
> ||| alcohol free. I never went to meetings, never had a sponsor. I knew
> ||| I could handle it myself. I was wrong. My relapse lasted fifteen
> ||| years.
> ||
> || It takes a real man to battle alcoholism on the streets.
>
> So, I take it, that your street battle against alcoholism
> failed...miserably.

Ehehehehe. Life's tough for him, ya know, it's hard to make
it when you're born without a brain-stem.

>
> ||
> || You have gain a conscious contact with the force that handles the
> || spiral eccentricities of the universe without being flung off the
> || earths gravitational spin.
> ||
> || I have to accept the fact that my family did bongs with George
> || Washington at Valley Forge and almost perished if it were not for the
> || French to save our country and promote individual sovereignity.
>
>
>

--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Scott W

12-02-2004, 11:25 PM

In article <MPG.1c19a66d219947e69896e5@News.Individual.NET>,
hans_spoon@yahoo.de says...
> In article <YKSrd.270578$9b.149956@edtnps84>,
> youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com says...
> > Dem Feckers wrote:
> > || "[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
> > || news:14wrd.10953$lB6.4943@fe14.usenetserver.com...
> > |||
> > ||| "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > ||| news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
> > |||| rosie readandpost wrote:
> > ||||
> > ||||| my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> > ||||| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
> > ||||| believe some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
> > |||
> > ||| Tara- In my case Rosie's correct in believing some choose an
> > ||| "easier, softer, way". I did. I managed nine years to remain
> > ||| alcohol free. I never went to meetings, never had a sponsor. I knew
> > ||| I could handle it myself. I was wrong. My relapse lasted fifteen
> > ||| years.
> > ||
> > || It takes a real man to battle alcoholism on the streets.
> >
> > So, I take it, that your street battle against alcoholism
> > failed...miserably.
>
> Ehehehehe. Life's tough for him, ya know, it's hard to make
> it when you're born without a brain-stem.
>
> >
> > ||
> > || You have gain a conscious contact with the force that handles the
> > || spiral eccentricities of the universe without being flung off the
> > || earths gravitational spin.
> > ||
> > || I have to accept the fact that my family did bongs with George
> > || Washington at Valley Forge and almost perished if it were not for the
> > || French to save our country and promote individual sovereignity.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
He's too busy manipulating his dick.
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

freespeech

12-02-2004, 11:25 PM

GaryE wrote:
|| On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 00:11:47 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:
||
||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
||| news:PBMrd.224989$df2.76049@edtnps89...
||||
|||| It's much, much easier to ignore an ONLINE sponsor.
|||
||| IMO *any* Sponsor's advice can be ignored. I know a lady who goes
||| to the same f2f meeting that I do who has on more than one occasion
||| ignored her Sponsor's advice to her to not pick up a drink when
||| she's feeling unable to cope but rather picks up the phone and
||| calls her Sponsor or another AA member who's phone number she has.
||| Other advice which has been passed on to this lady by her Sponsor
||| because it was advice that her Sponsor has been given and gained
||| benefit from, has also been ignored. This lady continues to drink
||| and has made several attempts to commit suicide. In contrast, her
||| Sponsor continues to not drink and when she applies AA's teachings
||| to her conduct, invariably (I think that's the right word) she
||| finds it easier to cope with her life. If this lady Sponsee
||| decides that she might benefit from having a
||| different Sponsor - or no Sponsor - she could ditch the one she now
||| has. However, fundamentally, if she doesn't want to stop drinking,
||| why bother to do this ?
|||
||| JB
|||
|||
|| JB,
||
|| Its the nuances that make these folks experts, you see. The
|| statement this joke made can't be validated. I've known people in
|| AA who did the 12 Steps who had a sponsor and who wound up as drunk
|| as anyone else. Wound up as dead as anyone else. Any claim that a
|| sponsor and f2f is The Way ignores the facts of what has happened.
|| The statement that "rarely have we seen a person fail who has
|| thoroughly followed our path' is sheer hyperbole but effective
|| motivational language. It is not a true statement though.
||
|| There are people in AA sober without doing it The Right Way and there
|| are people in AA who 'done it The Right Way' who aren't. If the
|| Thumps didn't insist on the Book being infallible, more might have
|| been revealed already that the evidence doesn't always comport with
|| the claims of the bB. That is, of course, heretical to those
|| mountain top people who feel the inner need for something to elevate
|| themselves and creating pecking orders in AA. The ones who want you
|| to think they are the pillars of AA are actually, in many cases,
|| AA's worst nightmare. Ego gone wild disguised under the banner of BB
|| memorization. And if you try to reason and talk with those bird
|| brains, all you get is a 'back handed put down' and then righteous
|| indignation when you point it out. They never make mistakes and
|| never had to admit to one. Fonzie kind of thing, I guess.
||
|| What is truly great about AA is those who don't feel the need to
|| continuially make comparisons, to do negative inventories, but who
|| believe in one drunk helping another as the real foundation of what
|| makes AA and those people shine. These folks, in my experience, are
|| not in the minority (it's the friggin' iknow it alls who are in the
|| minority) but make up the majority of people in AA. They just don't
|| go around shooting their mouth off all the time and 'carrying the
|| message' where the message isn't even needed.
||
|| Best,
|| GaryE

So, NO method has a 100% guarantee. Some ways are far more effectual than
OTHER ways, you know.

freespeech

12-02-2004, 11:25 PM

Gail wrote:
|| JB wrote:
||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
||| news:PBMrd.224989$df2.76049@edtnps89...
||||
|||| It's much, much easier to ignore an ONLINE sponsor.
|||
||| IMO *any* Sponsor's advice can be ignored. I know a lady who goes
||| to the same f2f meeting that I do who has on more than one occasion
||| ignored her Sponsor's advice to her to not pick up a drink when
||| she's feeling unable to cope but rather picks up the phone and
||| calls her Sponsor or another AA member who's phone number she has.
||| Other advice which has been passed on to this lady by her Sponsor
||| because it was advice that her Sponsor has been given and gained
||| benefit from, has also been ignored. This lady continues to drink
||| and has made several attempts to commit suicide. In contrast, her
||| Sponsor continues to not drink and when she applies AA's teachings
||| to her conduct, invariably (I think that's the right word) she
||| finds it easier to cope with her life. If this lady Sponsee
||| decides that she might benefit from having a
||| different Sponsor - or no Sponsor - she could ditch the one she now
||| has. However, fundamentally, if she doesn't want to stop drinking,
||| why bother to do this ?
|||
||| JB
||
|| It is very common to hear a sponsor say that their sponsee went back
|| out or is still drinking. I have yet to hear a sponsor say that they
|| have never had a sponsee go back out.
|| The poor woman is an alcoholic for God's sake! Maybe she wants like
|| hell to not drink and to get her life back. For some, it might take
|| a life time to do that if they survive no matter how Godly the
|| sponsor(s).
|| Oh and, if the sponsor is having trouble coping with her life then
|| maybe she shouldn't be sponsoring?
|| My 2 cents.
|| Gail

It is NORMAL behavior for an alcoholic to drink.

freespeech

12-02-2004, 11:26 PM

Scott W wrote:
|| In article <_CMrd.224992$df2.69819@edtnps89>,
|| youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com says...
||| rosie readandpost wrote:
|||||| To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in
|||||| order to not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?
|||||
|||||
||||| why must you think that you are being "put down" everytime i post
||||| something?
||||| i cannot count how many times i have included YMMV in my postings
||||| to you and others..................that "this is what works for
||||| me"...................how many more disclaimers must i include in
||||| my postings to make you feel better about yourself and your
||||| choices?
|||||
|||||
||||||
|||||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
|||||| other AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?
|||||
|||||
||||| then JB i would suggest that you stop asking folks to share THEIR
||||| ESH.....................your interpretations invariably are some
||||| kind of "put down"
|||||
|||||
||||||
|||||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
|||||| the methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal
|||||| they've decided they want to achieve in respect of their
|||||| drinking ?
|||||
||||| this is where YMMV, and WHATEVER WORKS comes into play!
||||| it is NOT a put down, it is an acknowledgement that "my way, is
||||| not the only way".
|||||
|||||
|||||
|||||
|||||
||||||
|||||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on
|||||| a daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for
|||||| joy ?
||||||
|||||| JB
||||||
||||||
|||||
||||| ABSOLUTELY!
||||| we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?
|||
|||
||| Hopefully. Perhaps JB considers absence of alcohol enough. Pity.
|||
|||
|||
|| Absence of alcohol IS enough. That's the goal, not
|| some pie in the sky religious experience. I take
|| LSD for that.

It shows, it really does!

|| --
|| "I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

freespeech

12-02-2004, 11:26 PM

JB wrote:
|| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
|| news:_CMrd.224992$df2.69819@edtnps89...
|| JB wrote
|||||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on
|||||| a daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for
|||||| joy ?
||||||
|||||| JB
||||||
||||||
|||||
|| Rosie wrote:
||||| ABSOLUTELY!
||||| we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?
|||
|||
||| Hopefully. Perhaps JB considers absence of alcohol enough. Pity.
|||
|| Freespeech, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so what makes
|| you think that you have it ?
||
|| Rosie, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so, what make *you*
|| think that you have it ?
||
|| I'm asking these questions because your comments suggest to me that
|| you have ideas about what "sobriety" is and also therefore, what it
|| is not. Please share your wisdom.
||
|| JB

Why throw pearls before swine?

freespeech

12-02-2004, 11:27 PM

Scott W wrote:
|| In article <coodlu$gpo$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, JBCatRB@coldman.com
|| says...
|||
||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
||| news:_CMrd.224992$df2.69819@edtnps89...
||| JB wrote
||||||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages
||||||| on a daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause
||||||| for joy ?
|||||||
||||||| JB
|||||||
|||||||
||||||
||| Rosie wrote:
|||||| ABSOLUTELY!
|||||| we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?
||||
||||
|||| Hopefully. Perhaps JB considers absence of alcohol enough. Pity.
||||
||| Freespeech, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so what makes
||| you think that you have it ?
|||
||| Rosie, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so, what make
||| *you* think that you have it ?
|||
||| I'm asking these questions because your comments suggest to me that
||| you have ideas about what "sobriety" is and also therefore, what it
||| is not. Please share your wisdom.
|||
|| Sobriety is a state of non-intoxication. Nothing else.
|| Thought and words mean nothing. Only your actions count for
|| anything.

Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of thinking.

||
|| --
|| "I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Scott W

12-02-2004, 11:27 PM

In article <RNSrd.270630$9b.152627@edtnps84>,
youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com says...
> Scott W wrote:
> || In article <_CMrd.224992$df2.69819@edtnps89>,
> || youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com says...
> ||| rosie readandpost wrote:
> |||||| To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in
> |||||| order to not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?
> |||||
> |||||
> ||||| why must you think that you are being "put down" everytime i post
> ||||| something?
> ||||| i cannot count how many times i have included YMMV in my postings
> ||||| to you and others..................that "this is what works for
> ||||| me"...................how many more disclaimers must i include in
> ||||| my postings to make you feel better about yourself and your
> ||||| choices?
> |||||
> |||||
> ||||||
> |||||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
> |||||| other AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?
> |||||
> |||||
> ||||| then JB i would suggest that you stop asking folks to share THEIR
> ||||| ESH.....................your interpretations invariably are some
> ||||| kind of "put down"
> |||||
> |||||
> ||||||
> |||||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
> |||||| the methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal
> |||||| they've decided they want to achieve in respect of their
> |||||| drinking ?
> |||||
> ||||| this is where YMMV, and WHATEVER WORKS comes into play!
> ||||| it is NOT a put down, it is an acknowledgement that "my way, is
> ||||| not the only way".
> |||||
> |||||
> |||||
> |||||
> |||||
> ||||||
> |||||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on
> |||||| a daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for
> |||||| joy ?
> ||||||
> |||||| JB
> ||||||
> ||||||
> |||||
> ||||| ABSOLUTELY!
> ||||| we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?
> |||
> |||
> ||| Hopefully. Perhaps JB considers absence of alcohol enough. Pity.
> |||
> |||
> |||
> || Absence of alcohol IS enough. That's the goal, not
> || some pie in the sky religious experience. I take
> || LSD for that.
>
> It shows, it really does!

Really? I'd love to get some feedback on this
because I think that I flew a little too high
sometimes.

>
> || --
> || "I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan
>
>
>

--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

freespeech

12-02-2004, 11:27 PM

Tara wrote:
|| freespeech wrote:
|||
||| JB wrote:
||||| "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
||||| news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
|||||| rosie readandpost wrote:
||||||
||||||| my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
||||||| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
||||||| believe some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
||||||
|||||| See?
|||||| I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
||||||
|||||| Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
|||||| make it an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word
|||||| "different". Just once.
|||||
||||| <snip>
|||||
|||||| Tara
|||||
||||| Well said Tara.
|||||
||||| Now, this thread has made me think:
|||||
||||| To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in order
||||| to not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?
|||||
||||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
||||| other AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?
|||||
||||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
||||| the methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal
||||| they've decided they want to achieve in respect of their drinking
||||| ?
|||||
||||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on a
||||| daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for joy
||||| ?
|||||
||||| JB
|||
||| When the REST of their life obviously sucks? I do NOT think so.
||
|| Yeah, meanwhile we're supposed to emulate *your* pathetic self?
||
|| I don't think so.
||
|| Tara

You truly are pathetic if your manipulative alcoholism-directed mind thought
that.

freespeech

12-02-2004, 11:29 PM

Tara wrote:
|| GaryE wrote:
||
||| Just simply applause........another person with a heart....it's
||| really not important if it's not done 'the right way' (whatever
||| that is). Compassion is not such a tough trick if one can look at
||| humans as humans and not as 'bad examples' to elevate one's own
||| standings. Bully for you and Tara.
||
|| Oh my. Have I defiled another one?
||

You STILL defiling young lads?

|| I'm going to hell.
||
|| Tara

Scott W

12-02-2004, 11:31 PM

In article <OOSrd.270646$9b.4989@edtnps84>,
youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com says...
> Scott W wrote:
> || In article <coodlu$gpo$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, JBCatRB@coldman.com
> || says...
> |||
> ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
> ||| news:_CMrd.224992$df2.69819@edtnps89...
> ||| JB wrote
> ||||||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages
> ||||||| on a daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause
> ||||||| for joy ?
> |||||||
> ||||||| JB
> |||||||
> |||||||
> ||||||
> ||| Rosie wrote:
> |||||| ABSOLUTELY!
> |||||| we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?
> ||||
> ||||
> |||| Hopefully. Perhaps JB considers absence of alcohol enough. Pity.
> ||||
> ||| Freespeech, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so what makes
> ||| you think that you have it ?
> |||
> ||| Rosie, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so, what make
> ||| *you* think that you have it ?
> |||
> ||| I'm asking these questions because your comments suggest to me that
> ||| you have ideas about what "sobriety" is and also therefore, what it
> ||| is not. Please share your wisdom.
> |||
> || Sobriety is a state of non-intoxication. Nothing else.
> || Thought and words mean nothing. Only your actions count for
> || anything.
>
> Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of thinking.
>

And two fingers of Two Fingers is the action of drinking!

Our will-power antagonizes behaviors of impulse. Addiction

centers around Greed. Greed and gluttony can be antagonized

by control of physical behavior. Physical behavior controls

thought. you ARE what you DO not what you think or say.

It's that simple.

> ||
> || --
> || "I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan
>
>
>

--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

12-03-2004, 02:27 AM

"Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:41AFC61A.2E336877@verizon.net...
> GaryE wrote:
>
> > Just simply applause........another person with a heart....it's
really
> > not important if it's not done 'the right way' (whatever that is).
> > Compassion is not such a tough trick if one can look at humans as
> > humans and not as 'bad examples' to elevate one's own standings.
> > Bully for you and Tara.
>
> Oh my. Have I defiled another one?
>
> I'm going to hell.
>
> Tara

Don't take credit where no credit is due :^)

Best regards

JB

12-03-2004, 02:52 AM

"Gail" <loverules@myhouse.com> wrote in message
news:H2Rrd.69$eU.27@fe05.lga...
> JB wrote:
> > "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
message
> > news:PBMrd.224989$df2.76049@edtnps89...
> >>
> >> It's much, much easier to ignore an ONLINE sponsor.
> >
> > IMO *any* Sponsor's advice can be ignored. I know a lady who goes
to
> > the same f2f meeting that I do who has on more than one occasion
> > ignored her Sponsor's advice to her to not pick up a drink when
she's
> > feeling unable to cope but rather picks up the phone and calls her
> > Sponsor or another AA member who's phone number she has.

<snip>
> If this lady Sponsee decides that she might benefit from having
> > a
> > different Sponsor - or no Sponsor - she could ditch the one she
now
> > has. However, fundamentally, if she doesn't want to stop
drinking,
> > why bother to do this ?
> >
> > JB
>
> It is very common to hear a sponsor say that their sponsee went back
out or
> is still drinking. I have yet to hear a sponsor say that they have
never had
> a sponsee go back out.

Have you heard any Sponsor say that they have quit sponsoring someone
? If so, did they say why they did this ?

Dem Feckers

12-03-2004, 07:56 AM

"Scott W" <hans_spoon@yahoo.de> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c19a66d219947e69896e5@News.Individual.NE T...
> In article <YKSrd.270578$9b.149956@edtnps84>,
> youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com says...
> > Dem Feckers wrote:
> > || "[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
> > || news:14wrd.10953$lB6.4943@fe14.usenetserver.com...
> > |||
> > ||| "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > ||| news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
> > |||| rosie readandpost wrote:
> > ||||
> > ||||| my alcoholic self didn't want it
though.....................my
> > ||||| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
> > ||||| believe some choose, and the results often times are
disastrous.
> > |||
> > ||| Tara- In my case Rosie's correct in believing some choose an
> > ||| "easier, softer, way". I did. I managed nine years to remain
> > ||| alcohol free. I never went to meetings, never had a sponsor. I
knew
> > ||| I could handle it myself. I was wrong. My relapse lasted fifteen
> > ||| years.
> > ||
> > || It takes a real man to battle alcoholism on the streets.
> >
> > So, I take it, that your street battle against alcoholism
> > failed...miserably.
>
> Ehehehehe. Life's tough for him, ya know, it's hard to make
> it when you're born without a brain-stem.
>

You are right. If I was only smart.
I'm trying to work but the government will not let me. I just keep
getting richer and richer and I am not even trying.

voodoo disease 666

Tara

12-03-2004, 11:30 AM

freespeech wrote:
>
> Tara wrote:
> || freespeech wrote:
> |||
> ||| JB wrote:
> ||||| "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
> ||||| news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
> |||||| rosie readandpost wrote:
> ||||||
> ||||||| my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> ||||||| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
> ||||||| believe some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
> ||||||
> |||||| See?
> |||||| I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
> ||||||
> |||||| Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
> |||||| make it an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word
> |||||| "different". Just once.
> |||||
> ||||| <snip>
> |||||
> |||||| Tara
> |||||
> ||||| Well said Tara.
> |||||
> ||||| Now, this thread has made me think:
> |||||
> ||||| To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in order
> ||||| to not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?
> |||||
> ||||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
> ||||| other AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?
> |||||
> ||||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
> ||||| the methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal
> ||||| they've decided they want to achieve in respect of their drinking
> ||||| ?
> |||||
> ||||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on a
> ||||| daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for joy
> ||||| ?
> |||||
> ||||| JB
> |||
> ||| When the REST of their life obviously sucks? I do NOT think so.
> ||
> || Yeah, meanwhile we're supposed to emulate *your* pathetic self?
> ||
> || I don't think so.
> ||
> || Tara
>
> You truly are pathetic if your manipulative alcoholism-directed mind thought
> that.

No one else here is putting you up on the Pedestal of Righteousness. So,
with every bitter, self righteous and insulting post you send, you are
suggesting just that.

Tara

GaryE

12-03-2004, 11:36 AM

On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 08:27:44 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

>"Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:41AFC61A.2E336877@verizon.net...
>> GaryE wrote:
>>
>> > Just simply applause........another person with a heart....it's
>really
>> > not important if it's not done 'the right way' (whatever that is).
>> > Compassion is not such a tough trick if one can look at humans as
>> > humans and not as 'bad examples' to elevate one's own standings.
>> > Bully for you and Tara.
>>
>> Oh my. Have I defiled another one?
>>
>> I'm going to hell.
>>
>> Tara
>
>Don't take credit where no credit is due :^)
>
>Best regards
>
>JB
>
Scratching head....wonder. I tried to make this a sincere compliment
but maybe I convoluted it up. (:>

I grew up in a world where certain people never measured up and were
always being castigated and sneered at (and sometimes beaten and
killed). I can't recall it ever serving any good purpose one way or
the other except maybe for those red necks (including Bibical
thumpers) and white trash that needed a "lower being" to point to. I
will always admire those who find such down the nose judgments
appalling. That aspect probably is my major greivance with Thumphood.
Thumps seem to be particularly adept at (almost unconsciously, which
is no reason for it) denigrating another human and creating the same
attitude in other people because you can see it clearly passed along
due to their influence and trait of inventory and negative comparisons
with others. So I'm sort of sensitive to that and I want to try to
make those who are insensitive to those kind of things, a little more
feeling about it not being OK to point or refer to others as less
than. Particularly when it's mostly surface impressions and not an
attempt to understand that other person at all.

Or the flip side of that which is the elevation of themselves to some
special status with an expectation that others need to recognize this
special status which they conferred upon themselves. No one elects
Thumps and frankly, I think AA would do just as well without a single
Thump. Martin Luther King, like Bill Wilson, headed a great movement
and people today follow his lead and experience, but there isn't a
Thump community taking every word he wrote or spoke and codifying them
or using them as bludgeons to sneer at other people. Yet his spirit
goes on and what he started does though in many different forms today.

I think those kind of attitudes of posturing oneself as superior than
some other person are subtle. As subtle as racism was/is for a
vulnerable, believing boy who grew up in a world of racism and never
even thought about it as "bad" until the people on the short end of
the stick started saying, 'why do you treat us this way?' "Why do you
think we aren't as good as you?" "What did we do to make you despise
and hate us?" I never had a good answer.

Best,
GaryE

Scott W

12-03-2004, 12:16 PM

In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
>
> : ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
> message
>
> :
> : Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
> thinking.
> :
>
>
> i like that!
>
>
>
Females are incapable of sound logic.
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

rosie readandpost

12-03-2004, 12:17 PM

you know freespeech.............i have been 'round and round" with
JB on just about every topic that he/she wants to talk
about.....................
i don't know that what i have to offer are "pearls" but they work
for me, and i obviously do not have what he/she wants!
life is too short to spend it arguing in ARAA...............JB n'
friends do that just fine without me!

rosie

--

"freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
news:fOSrd.270636$9b.183518@edtnps84...
: JB wrote:
: || "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
message
: || news:_CMrd.224992$df2.69819@edtnps89...
: || JB wrote
: |||||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink
manages on
: |||||| a daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause
for
: |||||| joy ?
: ||||||
: |||||| JB
: ||||||
: ||||||
: |||||
: || Rosie wrote:
: ||||| ABSOLUTELY!
: ||||| we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?
: |||
: |||
: ||| Hopefully. Perhaps JB considers absence of alcohol enough.
Pity.
: |||
: || Freespeech, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so what
makes
: || you think that you have it ?
: ||
: || Rosie, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so, what make
*you*
: || think that you have it ?
: ||
: || I'm asking these questions because your comments suggest to me
that
: || you have ideas about what "sobriety" is and also therefore,
what it
: || is not. Please share your wisdom.
: ||
: || JB
:
: Why throw pearls before swine?
:
:

rosie readandpost

12-03-2004, 12:17 PM

: ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
message

:
: Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
thinking.
:

i like that!

rosie readandpost

12-03-2004, 12:20 PM

: Have you heard any Sponsor say that they have quit sponsoring
someone
: ? If so, did they say why they did this ?
:
:

sure!
many, many, times!

why bother DRAGGING someone to the "happy road of destiny"?

why waste time?
why not work with those who want what the sponsor has?

Gail

12-03-2004, 12:58 PM

JB wrote:
> "Gail" <loverules@myhouse.com> wrote in message
> news:H2Rrd.69$eU.27@fe05.lga...
>> JB wrote:
>>> "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
>>> news:PBMrd.224989$df2.76049@edtnps89...
>>>>
>>>> It's much, much easier to ignore an ONLINE sponsor.
>>>
>>> IMO *any* Sponsor's advice can be ignored. I know a lady who goes
>>> to the same f2f meeting that I do who has on more than one occasion
>>> ignored her Sponsor's advice to her to not pick up a drink when
>>> she's feeling unable to cope but rather picks up the phone and
>>> calls her Sponsor or another AA member who's phone number she has.
>
> <snip>
>> If this lady Sponsee decides that she might benefit from having
>>> a
>>> different Sponsor - or no Sponsor - she could ditch the one she now
>>> has. However, fundamentally, if she doesn't want to stop drinking,
>>> why bother to do this ?
>>>
>>> JB
>>
>> It is very common to hear a sponsor say that their sponsee went back
>> out or is still drinking. I have yet to hear a sponsor say that they
>> have never had a sponsee go back out.
>
> Have you heard any Sponsor say that they have quit sponsoring someone
> ? If so, did they say why they did this ?

I didn't usually ask who they were sponsoring or if they quit? Really none
of my business. I do believe that it is usually the sponsee who quits first.
Gail

Gail

12-03-2004, 01:23 PM

Gail wrote:
> JB wrote:
>> "Gail" <loverules@myhouse.com> wrote in message
>> news:H2Rrd.69$eU.27@fe05.lga...
>>> JB wrote:
>>>> "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
>>>> message news:PBMrd.224989$df2.76049@edtnps89...
>>>>>
>>>>> It's much, much easier to ignore an ONLINE sponsor.
>>>>
>>>> IMO *any* Sponsor's advice can be ignored. I know a lady who goes
>>>> to the same f2f meeting that I do who has on more than one occasion
>>>> ignored her Sponsor's advice to her to not pick up a drink when
>>>> she's feeling unable to cope but rather picks up the phone and
>>>> calls her Sponsor or another AA member who's phone number she has.
>>
>> <snip>
>>> If this lady Sponsee decides that she might benefit from having
>>>> a
>>>> different Sponsor - or no Sponsor - she could ditch the one she now
>>>> has. However, fundamentally, if she doesn't want to stop drinking,
>>>> why bother to do this ?
>>>>
>>>> JB
>>>
>>> It is very common to hear a sponsor say that their sponsee went back
>>> out or is still drinking. I have yet to hear a sponsor say that they
>>> have never had a sponsee go back out.
>>
>> Have you heard any Sponsor say that they have quit sponsoring someone
>> ? If so, did they say why they did this ?
>
> I didn't usually ask who they were sponsoring or if they quit? Really
> none of my business. I do believe that it is usually the sponsee who
> quits first. Gail

You asked if I had ever heard a sponsor say they quit sponsoring someone. I
have heard some say that they told a sponsee to find another sponsor who
might do them more good. Really never heard of it that much. But, if someone
is sponsoring and their having difficulty coping with life then yes, stop
sponsoring and get their own life in order first. That is not to say that
they quit talking to a fellow alcoholic if they call or whatever. I have
seen to many people start sponsoring a couple weeks after entering AA. How
effective can that be? Having made that mistake before, if I were looking
for a sponsor, I would shop around, find one who isn't sponsoring every
woman in the program, one who has quite some time of not drinking and hope
that they are able to cope with life and that would be pretty evident if
when talking to me it isn't all about them, how they don't have any money,
how their husband or boyfriend used or left them, etc. etc. There is a
difference between sharing and complaining and newbie's don't always know
that right off. I know I didn't.

Gail

12-03-2004, 02:13 PM

"GaryE" <garyexxxnospam@nadaswbell.net> wrote in message
news:4f71r05lo044kg9aoiu3s0gdq43c0iakuj@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 08:27:44 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:
>
> >"Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >news:41AFC61A.2E336877@verizon.net...
> >> GaryE wrote:
> >>
> >> > Just simply applause........another person with a heart....it's
> >really
> >> > not important if it's not done 'the right way' (whatever that
is).
> >> > Compassion is not such a tough trick if one can look at humans
as
> >> > humans and not as 'bad examples' to elevate one's own
standings.
> >> > Bully for you and Tara.
> >>
> >> Oh my. Have I defiled another one?
> >>
> >> I'm going to hell.
> >>
> >> Tara
> >
> >Don't take credit where no credit is due :^)
> >
> >Best regards
> >
> >JB
> >
> Scratching head....wonder. I tried to make this a sincere
compliment
> but maybe I convoluted it up. (:>
>
> I grew up in a world where certain people never measured up and were
> always being castigated and sneered at (and sometimes beaten and
> killed).

Dear Gary,

My comment was not motivated by a desire to sneer at or castigate Tara
but simply by a desire to raise a smile.

FWIW, I was brought up to believe that it is wrong for someone to
claim credit for something that they have not done.

IMO, no-one on this NG ought to be claiming credit for giving me "a
heart " (which is what you suggested in your post I have), and
therefore (laughing) "defiling" me. Why ? Because, IMO, I've not
acquired "a heart" as a *result* of joining this NG. <Laughing> At
this point I'm thinking, probably, some folk here and also in the real
world,think me heart-less.

FWIW, I have no doubts that Tara intended her comment to be seen as a
humorous, not-to-be taken-seriously comment. When I said at the start
of this post that my reply to her was not motivated by a desire to
sneer at or castigate her but simply by a desire to raise a smile, I
was telling the truth.

<snip>

> Thumps seem to be particularly adept at (almost unconsciously, which
> is no reason for it) denigrating another human and creating the same
> attitude in other people because you can see it clearly passed along
> due to their influence and trait of inventory and negative
comparisons
> with others. So I'm sort of sensitive to that and I want to try to
> make those who are insensitive to those kind of things, a little
more
> feeling about it not being OK to point or refer to others as less
> than. Particularly when it's mostly surface impressions and not an
> attempt to understand that other person at all.

Gary, I do not mind admitting, publicly, to being sometimes
insensitive. Only yesterday in fact, when I was making amends to my
husband , I admitted to knowing how to hurt him with words and to
sometimes deliberately using words to hurt him in order to express a
resentment I have against him. I also admitted to knowing that what I
was doing at such times was wrong and that I ought to be making
efforts to stop doing it. Since I quit drinking in June 2003, as a
result of hanging around the two ARAA's and going to AA, folk I've met
have helped me become aware of things I have done that later I come to
think I ought to no longer do. As a result of this, I have changed a
bit. However, there's much more work to be done. Maybe, I shall go
to my grave knowing that I have never been perfect in every way -
maybe, not in "any" way. However, if at that time I have fewer faults
than now, maybe for that I ought to be thankful ? (friendly smile).

End of confession (friendly smile)

ATB

JB

Tommy

12-03-2004, 02:54 PM

In news:41B0A1FD.A042ECAE@verizon.net,
Tara <> regaled me with ``(*^(\)
> freespeech wrote:
>>
>> Tara wrote:
>>>> freespeech wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> JB wrote:
>>>>>>> "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
>>>>>>>> rosie readandpost wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> my alcoholic self didn't want it
>>>>>>>>> though.....................my alcoholic self wanted to take
>>>>>>>>> the "easier, softer, way" as i believe some choose, and the
>>>>>>>>> results often times are disastrous.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See?
>>>>>>>> I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go
>>>>>>>> doesn't make it an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the
>>>>>>>> word "different". Just once.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tara
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well said Tara.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, this thread has made me think:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in
>>>>>>> order
>>>>>>> to not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should
>>>>>>> criticise
>>>>>>> other AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should
>>>>>>> criticise
>>>>>>> the methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal
>>>>>>> they've decided they want to achieve in respect of their
>>>>>>> drinking ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages
>>>>>>> on a daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be
>>>>>>> cause for joy ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JB
>>>>>
>>>>> When the REST of their life obviously sucks? I do NOT think so.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, meanwhile we're supposed to emulate *your* pathetic self?
>>>>
>>>> I don't think so.
>>>>
>>>> Tara
>>
>> You truly are pathetic if your manipulative alcoholism-directed
>> mind thought that.
>
> No one else here is putting you up on the Pedestal of
> Righteousness. So,
> with every bitter, self righteous and insulting post you send, you
> are suggesting just that.
>
> Tara

I think the guy is stressed Tara. Not anxiety, just stress. Actcherly you're
looking a bit that way yourself
Heres a test or two = pretty accurate too.

It's a simple test designed to indicate whether people have
too much stress in their life.
It's a picture of two dolphins.
The two dolphins appear normal when viewed by a stress-free individual.

http://webpages.charter.net/hkirtley/stress/

http://www.homestead.com/selfhelpsolutions/stress.html

http://community.sparknotes.com/

http://www.sparknotes.com/satfiction/busted/

I put this one in to help 'stressed' people pass the time, its a story (a real
novel) and within the pages are linked words and crowsswords. I use it
sometimes to take my mind off mundane daily stresses, things like paying bill,
earning money, eating- yep eating, I'm borderline anorexic. I find if I get
deeply mentally involved in something, then I can scoff a packet of biscuits or
on occasion a whole Vienna Roll, (a vienna roll is crispy bread, usually eaten
freshly baked). Or God forgive me couple of bars of chocolates followed by a
couple of slices of lemon cheese cake. Not all on the same night though :-))
PS the dolphin on the left should show up with one red eye and one white eye
(thats what unstressed people see)
Cheers
Tommy

afraid not

12-03-2004, 03:11 PM

"Scott W" <hans_spoon@yahoo.de> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c1a5b6e5693a9f298970e@News.Individual.NE T...

| >
| >
| >
| Females are incapable of sound logic.
| --

Maybe that's what your problem is, have you checked your hormones lately?

Tara

12-03-2004, 04:25 PM

Tommy wrote:

> http://webpages.charter.net/hkirtley/stress/
>
> http://www.homestead.com/selfhelpsolutions/stress.html
>
> http://community.sparknotes.com/
>
> http://www.sparknotes.com/satfiction/busted/

Before I click on ANY of these links, I want a firm and solid promise
from you that I will not be lulled into focussing intently on the screen
(by a kitchen table, or a solitary car on the road, or even by DOLPHINS)
only to be suddenly scared crapless by some freakazoid zombie screaming.

Promise?

Cuz if this is scary, you're gonna have one pissed off used-to-be
redhead on your hands. And that's never a good thing.

> I put this one in to help 'stressed' people pass the time, its a story (a real
> novel) and within the pages are linked words and crowsswords. I use it
> sometimes to take my mind off mundane daily stresses, things like paying bill,
> earning money, eating- yep eating, I'm borderline anorexic. I find if I get
> deeply mentally involved in something, then I can scoff a packet of biscuits or
> on occasion a whole Vienna Roll, (a vienna roll is crispy bread, usually eaten
> freshly baked). Or God forgive me couple of bars of chocolates followed by a
> couple of slices of lemon cheese cake. Not all on the same night though :-))
> PS the dolphin on the left should show up with one red eye and one white eye
> (thats what unstressed people see)

Ok. Now I half believe you. ANd still, for some reason I require
confirmation :-)

Tara

GaryE

12-03-2004, 05:49 PM

On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 20:13:46 -0000, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

>
>
>Dear Gary,
>
>My comment was not motivated by a desire to sneer at or castigate Tara
>but simply by a desire to raise a smile.

I don't know what you are talking about.....this wasn't about you two
except that I think both of you have sincere compassion.
>

>
>Gary, I do not mind admitting, publicly, to being sometimes
>insensitive. Only yesterday in fact, when I was making amends to my
>husband , I admitted to knowing how to hurt him with words and to
>sometimes deliberately using words to hurt him in order to express a
>resentment I have against him. I also admitted to knowing that what I
>was doing at such times was wrong and that I ought to be making
>efforts to stop doing it. Since I quit drinking in June 2003, as a
>result of hanging around the two ARAA's and going to AA, folk I've met
>have helped me become aware of things I have done that later I come to
>think I ought to no longer do. As a result of this, I have changed a
>bit. However, there's much more work to be done. Maybe, I shall go
>to my grave knowing that I have never been perfect in every way -
>maybe, not in "any" way. However, if at that time I have fewer faults
>than now, maybe for that I ought to be thankful ? (friendly smile).
>
>End of confession (friendly smile)

I'm glad to see that you've 'acquired' some sensitivity. I believe,
but am not sure, that most people who have problems drinking are/were
fairly good at using words to hurt other people. When I married Joan
over 20 years ago, both of us claimed expertise in knowing how to
sabatoge a marriage and do major damage to another person's mental
state and emotional state. Most of it was because we were both young
and stupid and wanted our way and woe be unto them that got in the way
of that.

We pledged to not do that with our precious time together. And
we've done pretty good. Not 'perfect' of course, because sometimes
things just seem to be said without thinking on occassion. Anyone who
understands the power of words to harm, know that they can be used to
harm greatly. Sometimes words are unthinking, almost, but not quite
unintentional. Sometimes they are not. In any case, it is good that
you have become more aware of how they can be used as weapons to hurt
people. And become more aware of any tendency to use them that way so
you can check yourself before you say something that you later wish
you hadn't.

My opinion is that AA is a major catalyst for personal change if you
allow it. That even includes the prescribed way, which is working the
Steps to the best of your ability. But if you didn't want to or you
found the God deal offensive, it wouldn't be of any concern to me or a
number of other people in AA. Except for the very few, there is a
great deal of 'love and tolerance' in AA in my experience. That
allows any one to become vulnerable and open up and that is what
drives change, I believe. People need to be allowed to talk about
what's on their mind and not muzzled for some claptrap dogma. That
doesn't mean that AA should be all things to all people, not saying
that. Just that these endless discussions about what's proper in AA
and what's not are absurd most of the time.

Since I rail against Thumps and their ilk, one could the impression
that I don't think well of AA. Not true. AA (or more correctly the
people in AA) has been the most powerful experience in my life in
terms of what I've received from those people. I don't go to meetings
today but I did pretty much daily for five years plus. I just found
myself getting tired and bored and that's just me. I'm surprised I
went as long as I did. When I found out that lfie goes on (for me)
pretty well and I'm not obsessing over drinking like it was suggested
I might, then I'm past the fear factor, the scare factor of what
happens to people who don't attend meetings. I may go back to
meetings one day. I probably will.

Good luck to you,

Best,
GaryE

Tommy

12-03-2004, 05:57 PM

In news:41B0E71D.CB4F50A2@verizon.net,
Tara <> regaled me with ``(*^(\)
> Tommy wrote:
>
>> http://webpages.charter.net/hkirtley/stress/
>>
>> http://www.homestead.com/selfhelpsolutions/stress.html
>>
>> http://community.sparknotes.com/
>>
>> http://www.sparknotes.com/satfiction/busted/
>
> Before I click on ANY of these links, I want a firm and solid
> promise
> from you that I will not be lulled into focussing intently on the
> screen (by a kitchen table, or a solitary car on the road, or even
> by DOLPHINS)
> only to be suddenly scared crapless by some freakazoid zombie
> screaming.
>
> Promise?

Absolute scouts honour. Cross my heart and hope to die, and no fingers crossed
behind my back :)
Cheers
Tommy

freespeech

12-03-2004, 06:57 PM

Tara wrote:
|| freespeech wrote:
|||
||| Tara wrote:
||||| freespeech wrote:
||||||
|||||| JB wrote:
|||||||| "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
|||||||| news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
||||||||| rosie readandpost wrote:
|||||||||
|||||||||| my alcoholic self didn't want it
|||||||||| though.....................my alcoholic self wanted to take
|||||||||| the "easier, softer, way" as i believe some choose, and the
|||||||||| results often times are disastrous.
|||||||||
||||||||| See?
||||||||| I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
|||||||||
||||||||| Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go
||||||||| doesn't make it an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the
||||||||| word "different". Just once.
||||||||
|||||||| <snip>
||||||||
||||||||| Tara
||||||||
|||||||| Well said Tara.
||||||||
|||||||| Now, this thread has made me think:
||||||||
|||||||| To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in
|||||||| order to not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?
||||||||
|||||||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
|||||||| other AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?
||||||||
|||||||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should criticise
|||||||| the methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal
|||||||| they've decided they want to achieve in respect of their
|||||||| drinking ?
||||||||
|||||||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages
|||||||| on a daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause
|||||||| for joy ?
||||||||
|||||||| JB
||||||
|||||| When the REST of their life obviously sucks? I do NOT think so.
|||||
||||| Yeah, meanwhile we're supposed to emulate *your* pathetic self?
|||||
||||| I don't think so.
|||||
||||| Tara
|||
||| You truly are pathetic if your manipulative alcoholism-directed
||| mind thought that.
||
|| No one else here is putting you up on the Pedestal of Righteousness.
|| So, with every bitter, self righteous and insulting post you send,
|| you are suggesting just that.
||
|| Tara

Down on your knees, babe!

freespeech

12-03-2004, 06:58 PM

Tommy wrote:
|| In news:41B0A1FD.A042ECAE@verizon.net,
|| Tara <> regaled me with ``(*^(\)
||| freespeech wrote:
||||
|||| Tara wrote:
|||||| freespeech wrote:
|||||||
||||||| JB wrote:
||||||||| "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
||||||||| news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
|||||||||| rosie readandpost wrote:
||||||||||
||||||||||| my alcoholic self didn't want it
||||||||||| though.....................my alcoholic self wanted to take
||||||||||| the "easier, softer, way" as i believe some choose, and the
||||||||||| results often times are disastrous.
||||||||||
|||||||||| See?
|||||||||| I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
||||||||||
|||||||||| Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go
|||||||||| doesn't make it an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the
|||||||||| word "different". Just once.
|||||||||
||||||||| <snip>
|||||||||
|||||||||| Tara
|||||||||
||||||||| Well said Tara.
|||||||||
||||||||| Now, this thread has made me think:
|||||||||
||||||||| To those who criticise what other alcoholics chose to do in
||||||||| order
||||||||| to not drink on a daily basis, why do you do this ?
|||||||||
||||||||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should
||||||||| criticise
||||||||| other AAer's over how they chose to make use of AA ?
|||||||||
||||||||| Where in AA's teachings does it say that AAers should
||||||||| criticise
||||||||| the methods used by other alcoholics to achieve whatever goal
||||||||| they've decided they want to achieve in respect of their
||||||||| drinking ?
|||||||||
||||||||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages
||||||||| on a daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be
||||||||| cause for joy ?
|||||||||
||||||||| JB
|||||||
||||||| When the REST of their life obviously sucks? I do NOT think so.
||||||
|||||| Yeah, meanwhile we're supposed to emulate *your* pathetic self?
||||||
|||||| I don't think so.
||||||
|||||| Tara
||||
|||| You truly are pathetic if your manipulative alcoholism-directed
|||| mind thought that.
|||
||| No one else here is putting you up on the Pedestal of
||| Righteousness. So,
||| with every bitter, self righteous and insulting post you send, you
||| are suggesting just that.
|||
||| Tara
||
|| I think the guy is stressed Tara. Not anxiety, just stress.
|| Actcherly you're looking a bit that way yourself
|| Heres a test or two = pretty accurate too.
||
||
|| It's a simple test designed to indicate whether people have
|| too much stress in their life.
|| It's a picture of two dolphins.
|| The two dolphins appear normal when viewed by a stress-free
|| individual.
||
|| http://webpages.charter.net/hkirtley/stress/

The two steers are identical in all aspects.

||
|| http://www.homestead.com/selfhelpsolutions/stress.html
||
|| http://community.sparknotes.com/
||
|| http://www.sparknotes.com/satfiction/busted/
||
|| I put this one in to help 'stressed' people pass the time, its a
|| story (a real novel) and within the pages are linked words and
|| crowsswords. I use it sometimes to take my mind off mundane daily
|| stresses, things like paying bill, earning money, eating- yep
|| eating, I'm borderline anorexic. I find if I get deeply mentally
|| involved in something, then I can scoff a packet of biscuits or on
|| occasion a whole Vienna Roll, (a vienna roll is crispy bread,
|| usually eaten freshly baked). Or God forgive me couple of bars of
|| chocolates followed by a couple of slices of lemon cheese cake. Not
|| all on the same night though :-)) PS the dolphin on the left should
|| show up with one red eye and one white eye (thats what unstressed
|| people see)
|| Cheers
|| Tommy

freespeech

12-03-2004, 07:00 PM

Scott W wrote:
|| In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
|| readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
|||
||||||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
||||||| message
|||
||||
|||| Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
|||| thinking.
||||
|||
|||
||| i like that!
|||
|||
|||
|| Females are incapable of sound logic.

Well, she liked what *I* had to say. So there.

|| --
|| "I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

freespeech

12-03-2004, 07:01 PM

afraid not wrote:
|| "Scott W" <hans_spoon@yahoo.de> wrote in message
|| news:MPG.1c1a5b6e5693a9f298970e@News.Individual.NE T...
||
||||
||||
||||
||| Females are incapable of sound logic.
||| --
||
||
|| Maybe that's what your problem is, have you checked your hormones
|| lately?

That would explain why Scott now sings tenor.

Scott W

12-03-2004, 07:29 PM

In article <31c349F39sfvrU1@individual.net>, not@home.com says...
>
> "Scott W" <hans_spoon@yahoo.de> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1c1a5b6e5693a9f298970e@News.Individual.NE T...
>
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | Females are incapable of sound logic.
> | --
>
>
> Maybe that's what your problem is, have you checked your hormones lately?
>
>
>
>
>
Don't need to. I'm alllllllll man, ya bitch!
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Scott W

12-03-2004, 07:35 PM

In article <R_7sd.283638$9b.221545@edtnps84>,
youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com says...
> Scott W wrote:
> || In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> || readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
> |||
> ||||||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
> ||||||| message
> |||
> ||||
> |||| Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
> |||| thinking.
> ||||
> |||
> |||
> ||| i like that!
> |||
> |||
> |||
> || Females are incapable of sound logic.
>
> Well, she liked what *I* had to say. So there.
>
Good! Ask her out. See if you can get a honey hole.
I would!

--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

12-04-2004, 03:29 AM

"Gail" <loverules@myhouse.com> wrote in message
news:193sd.326$eF1.87@fe05.lga...

> > JB wrote:
> >> Have you heard any Sponsor say that they have quit sponsoring
someone
> >> ? If so, did they say why they did this ?
>
> You asked if I had ever heard a sponsor say they quit sponsoring
someone. I
> have heard some say that they told a sponsee to find another sponsor
who
> might do them more good.

That's one example of a Sponsor deciding to quit sponsoring someone.
Another, is where a Sponsor decides to drop a Sponsor after they've
seen their Sponsee fail to show up for a number of pre-arranged
appointments and also not return several messages left on their
answering-machine suggesting that they call their Sponsor.

>But, if someone
> is sponsoring and their having difficulty coping with life then yes,
stop
> sponsoring and get their own life in order first.

I agree.

>That is not to say that
> they quit talking to a fellow alcoholic if they call or whatever. I
have
> seen to many people start sponsoring a couple weeks after entering
AA.
> effective can that be? Having made that mistake before, if I were
looking
> for a sponsor, I would shop around, find one who isn't sponsoring
every
> woman in the program, one who has quite some time of not drinking
and hope
> that they are able to cope with life and that would be pretty
evident if
> when talking to me it isn't all about them, how they don't have any
money,
> how their husband or boyfriend used or left them, etc. etc.

If when they talk about these things, they also say how AA's 12 Steps
and other lessons which AA have taught them, have enabled them to deal
with these situations, then, they are doing nothing wrong. AAers are
encouraged to share their story and in so doing explain how and what
ways AA has been helpful to them. When I do this, maybe someone who
hears me speak will be able to identify with at least parts of my
story and from this decide that AA's teachings could be as helpful to
them as it has been - and continues to be - to me..

JB

12-04-2004, 11:57 AM

rosie readandpost" <readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:182sd.110775$T02.12222@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...

JB wrote

> : Have you heard any Sponsor say that they have quit sponsoring
> someone
> : ? If so, did they say why they did this ?
>
>
> sure!
> many, many, times!
>
> why bother DRAGGING someone to the "happy road of destiny"?
>
> why waste time?
> why not work with those who want what the sponsor has?
>
I believe that a Sponsor ought not to be have thoughts that they are a
good role model. IMO, such thoughts boost the ego and in so doing can
cause a Sponsor to believe that how they are and how they've done
things are the only "right way" to be and the only "right way" to do
things. I've met folk at f2f meetings and also on internet groups
whose behaviour has left those impressions on me.

I believe that a Sponsor's motives for sponsoring ought to be a simple
desire to share what they've learnt in AA that they've found helpful
for the purposes of strengthening their own recovery and trying to
help
another alcoholic see for themselves how AA could be helpful to
someone who seeks recovery from alcoholism.

Because I've heard it said that no-one can make an alcoholic who
doesn't want to recover from alcoholism, recover from it, I do not
agree that someone can be "dragged" to the "happy road of destiny".

JB

[[]]

12-04-2004, 12:37 PM

> JB wrote
>
>> : Have you heard any Sponsor say that they have quit sponsoring
>> someone
>> : ? If so, did they say why they did this ?
>>
>>
>> sure!
>> many, many, times!
>>
>> why bother DRAGGING someone to the "happy road of destiny"?
>>
>> why waste time?
>> why not work with those who want what the sponsor has?
>>
> I believe that a Sponsor ought not to be have thoughts that they are a
> good role model.

When I sought out my sponsor I looked for someone I could model my program
after. I found someone who was honest, able to admit their own imperfections
and could by example show me how to improve my life and remain sober. My
sponsor is a flawed alcoholic with a strong spirtually based program and a
fine role model. His own awareness of this makes him an even more valuable
piece of my program.

-Steve

12-04-2004, 12:58 PM

"[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
news:_tnsd.7606$um.6758@fe31.usenetserver.com...
> > JB wrote
> >
> >> : Have you heard any Sponsor say that they have quit sponsoring
> >> someone
> >> : ? If so, did they say why they did this ?
> >>
> >>
> >> sure!
> >> many, many, times!
> >>
> >> why bother DRAGGING someone to the "happy road of destiny"?
> >>
> >> why waste time?
> >> why not work with those who want what the sponsor has?
> >>
> > I believe that a Sponsor ought not to be have thoughts that they
are a
> > good role model.
>
> When I sought out my sponsor I looked for someone I could model my
program
> after. I found someone who was honest, able to admit their own
imperfections
> and could by example show me how to improve my life and remain
sober. My
> sponsor is a flawed alcoholic with a strong spirtually based program
and a
> fine role model. His own awareness of this makes him an even more
valuable
> piece of my program.
>
> -Steve

I do not know whether my Sponsor thinks themself a "fine role model".
However, in every other way that you've mentioned, mine is, IMO,
identical to yours.

ATB

JB
>
>

rosie readandpost

12-04-2004, 04:03 PM

:
: When I sought out my sponsor I looked for someone I could model my
program
: after. I found someone who was honest, able to admit their own
imperfections
: and could by example show me how to improve my life and remain
sober. My
: sponsor is a flawed alcoholic with a strong spirtually based
program and a
: fine role model. His own awareness of this makes him an even more
valuable
: piece of my program.
:
: -Steve
:
:
: \

absolutely!~
i wanted a sponsor who lived "life on life's terms" and could model
solutions for me.
my sponsor never walked on water, nor did my sponsor think in terms
of perfection!
i would NOT have been attracted to that!

my sponsor shared ESH.................personal ESH, as i do with
sponsee's.
if they want what i have, they will do what i did to get
it..............if they don't want to do that, i help them find a
sponsor that would be more suitable.

its fairly simple really!

Tara Green

12-04-2004, 05:31 PM

"[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
news:_tnsd.7606$um.6758@fe31.usenetserver.com...
> > JB wrote
> > I believe that a Sponsor ought not to be have thoughts that they are a
> > good role model.
>
> When I sought out my sponsor I looked for someone I could model my program
> after. I found someone who was honest, able to admit their own
imperfections
> and could by example show me how to improve my life and remain sober. My
> sponsor is a flawed alcoholic with a strong spirtually based program and a
> fine role model. His own awareness of this makes him an even more valuable
> piece of my program.

Your persective of your sponsor and his perspective of himself are two very
different things though.

Very different

Tara

rosie readandpost

12-04-2004, 06:29 PM

: > I believe that a Sponsor ought not to be have thoughts that they
are a
: > good role model.

i so don't agree with this.........................if i didn't think
i could share some good examples, why the hell would i sponsor
someone?
learning to work the steps AND applying them to one's life is the
whole enchilada, imo.

IMO, such thoughts boost the ego and in so doing can
: > cause a Sponsor to believe that how they are and how they've
done
: > things are the only "right way" to be and the only "right way"
to do
: > things.

OY VEY!
sponsoring CAN indeed boost the ego...............and that is NOT
always a bad thing.
as a sponsor i can assure you that the way i was sponsored was the
"right way" for me, and i tell my sponsee's
that.............................................i s it the ONLY way?
nope!

did i EVER believe it was the only way?
hell no!

you sure do point out "the worst" in folks..............are these
people you have met in meetings?
remind me NEVER to go there!

I've met folk at f2f meetings and also on internet groups
: > whose behaviour has left those impressions on me.
:
: Don't tell Ron that - after all these years of thumperhood, he
might cry -
: just like a little girl.
:

12-04-2004, 07:17 PM

" rosie readandpost" <readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qDssd.82913$ye4.50029@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...

JB wrote:

> : > I believe that a Sponsor ought not to be have thoughts that they
> are a
> : > good role model.
>
>
> i so don't agree with this........................if i didn't think
> i could share some good examples, why the hell would i sponsor
> someone?

I don't believe that someone needs a Sponsor in order to be abe to see
good examples of recovery.

Rosie,

In addition to having a desire to share some "good examples", do you
have other reasons for sponsoring ?

JB

Grace

12-04-2004, 07:23 PM

On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 16:29:10 -0800, rosie readandpost wrote
(in article <qDssd.82913$ye4.50029@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>):

>
>>>
>
> you sure do point out "the worst" in folks..............are these
> people you have met in meetings?
> remind me NEVER to go there!
>

Surely you've met people who are on an ego-trip about sponsoring. I think
that for some folks, sponsorship is a form of domination, and trophy-seeking.
For some, it can be very rewarding on a personal level, and I assume that is
your experience, rosie. And good for you. Not everyone is that pure of heart
and motive.

rosie readandpost

12-04-2004, 09:47 PM

yes, indeed i have met folks who are sponsor ego
trips...................i know what meetings they attend, and i
don't go there.....................groups like that have nothing i
want.
sponsorship has always been very rewarding for me, your right grace.
i started sponsoring 21 yrs ago, and i hope to continue sponsoring
the rest of my life.
i believe it keeps me growing.

--

"Grace" <graceh@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:cotnr11s5e@enews2.newsguy.com...
: On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 16:29:10 -0800, rosie readandpost wrote
: (in article <qDssd.82913$ye4.50029@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>):
:
: >
: >>>
: >
: > you sure do point out "the worst" in folks..............are
these
: > people you have met in meetings?
: > remind me NEVER to go there!
: >
:
:
: Surely you've met people who are on an ego-trip about sponsoring.
I think
: that for some folks, sponsorship is a form of domination, and
trophy-seeking.
: For some, it can be very rewarding on a personal level, and I
assume that is
: your experience, rosie. And good for you. Not everyone is that
pure of heart
: and motive.
:
:

epicphart

12-04-2004, 10:36 PM

Scott W wrote:
> In article <31c349F39sfvrU1@individual.net>, not@home.com says...
>
>>"Scott W" <hans_spoon@yahoo.de> wrote in message
>>news:MPG.1c1a5b6e5693a9f298970e@News.Individual.NE T...
>>
>>| >
>>| >
>>| >
>>| Females are incapable of sound logic.
>>| --
>>
>>
>>Maybe that's what your problem is, have you checked your hormones lately?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Don't need to. I'm alllllllll man, ya bitch!

thats not what your ex-gf told me...lmao

epicphart

12-04-2004, 10:38 PM

Scott W wrote:
> In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
>
>>: ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
>>message
>>
>>:
>>: Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
>>thinking.
>>:
>>
>>
>>i like that!
>>
>>
>>
>
> Females are incapable of sound logic.

youre incapable of any logic...

get off the booze, you have nothing else to loose..and i mean nothing..

epicphart

12-04-2004, 10:41 PM

Scott W wrote:
> In article <OOSrd.270646$9b.4989@edtnps84>,
> youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com says...
>
>>Scott W wrote:
>>|| In article <coodlu$gpo$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, JBCatRB@coldman.com
>>|| says...
>>|||
>>||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
>>||| news:_CMrd.224992$df2.69819@edtnps89...
>>||| JB wrote
>>||||||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages
>>||||||| on a daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause
>>||||||| for joy ?
>>|||||||
>>||||||| JB
>>|||||||
>>|||||||
>>||||||
>>||| Rosie wrote:
>>|||||| ABSOLUTELY!
>>|||||| we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?
>>||||
>>||||
>>|||| Hopefully. Perhaps JB considers absence of alcohol enough. Pity.
>>||||
>>||| Freespeech, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so what makes
>>||| you think that you have it ?
>>|||
>>||| Rosie, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so, what make
>>||| *you* think that you have it ?
>>|||
>>||| I'm asking these questions because your comments suggest to me that
>>||| you have ideas about what "sobriety" is and also therefore, what it
>>||| is not. Please share your wisdom.
>>|||
>>|| Sobriety is a state of non-intoxication. Nothing else.
>>|| Thought and words mean nothing. Only your actions count for
>>|| anything.
>>
>>Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of thinking.
>>
>
>
> And two fingers of Two Fingers is the action of drinking!
>
> Our will-power antagonizes behaviors of impulse. Addiction
>
> centers around Greed. Greed and gluttony can be antagonized
>
> by control of physical behavior. Physical behavior controls
>
> thought. you ARE what you DO not what you think or say.
>
> It's that simple.
>
>
>
>>||
>>|| --
>>|| "I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan
>>
>>
>>
>
>

like you have a clue..hehheee

epicphart

12-04-2004, 10:43 PM

Scott W wrote:
> In article <MPG.1c19a66d219947e69896e5@News.Individual.NET>,
> hans_spoon@yahoo.de says...
>
>>In article <YKSrd.270578$9b.149956@edtnps84>,
>>youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com says...
>>
>>>Dem Feckers wrote:
>>>|| "[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
>>>|| news:14wrd.10953$lB6.4943@fe14.usenetserver.com...
>>>|||
>>>||| "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>||| news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
>>>|||| rosie readandpost wrote:
>>>||||
>>>||||| my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
>>>||||| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
>>>||||| believe some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
>>>|||
>>>||| Tara- In my case Rosie's correct in believing some choose an
>>>||| "easier, softer, way". I did. I managed nine years to remain
>>>||| alcohol free. I never went to meetings, never had a sponsor. I knew
>>>||| I could handle it myself. I was wrong. My relapse lasted fifteen
>>>||| years.
>>>||
>>>|| It takes a real man to battle alcoholism on the streets.
>>>
>>>So, I take it, that your street battle against alcoholism
>>>failed...miserably.
>>
>> Ehehehehe. Life's tough for him, ya know, it's hard to make
>> it when you're born without a brain-stem.
>>
>>
>>>||
>>>|| You have gain a conscious contact with the force that handles the
>>>|| spiral eccentricities of the universe without being flung off the
>>>|| earths gravitational spin.
>>>||
>>>|| I have to accept the fact that my family did bongs with George
>>>|| Washington at Valley Forge and almost perished if it were not for the
>>>|| French to save our country and promote individual sovereignity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> He's too busy manipulating his dick.

and youve been watchin' intently...ick

epicphart

12-04-2004, 10:44 PM

Scott W wrote:

>>So, I take it, that your street battle against alcoholism
>>failed...miserably.
>
>
> Ehehehehe. Life's tough for him, ya know, it's hard to make
> it when you're born without a brain-stem.
>
Now that, you are a potential expert on...

epicphart

12-04-2004, 10:48 PM

Scott W wrote:
> In article <H2Rrd.69$eU.27@fe05.lga>, loverules@myhouse.com says...
>
>>JB wrote:
>>
>>>"freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
>>>news:PBMrd.224989$df2.76049@edtnps89...
>>>
>>>>It's much, much easier to ignore an ONLINE sponsor.
>>>
>>>IMO *any* Sponsor's advice can be ignored. I know a lady who goes to
>>>the same f2f meeting that I do who has on more than one occasion
>>>ignored her Sponsor's advice to her to not pick up a drink when she's
>>>feeling unable to cope but rather picks up the phone and calls her
>>>Sponsor or another AA member who's phone number she has. Other advice
>>>which has been passed on to this lady by her Sponsor because it was
>>>advice that her Sponsor has been given and gained benefit from, has
>>>also been ignored. This lady continues to drink and has made several
>>>attempts to commit suicide. In contrast, her Sponsor continues to not
>>>drink and when she applies AA's teachings to her conduct, invariably
>>>(I think that's the right word) she finds it easier to cope with her
>>>life. If this lady Sponsee decides that she might benefit from having
>>>a
>>>different Sponsor - or no Sponsor - she could ditch the one she now
>>>has. However, fundamentally, if she doesn't want to stop drinking,
>>>why bother to do this ?
>>>
>>>JB
>>
>>It is very common to hear a sponsor say that their sponsee went back out or
>>is still drinking. I have yet to hear a sponsor say that they have never had
>>a sponsee go back out.
>>The poor woman is an alcoholic for God's sake! Maybe she wants like hell to
>>not drink and to get her life back. For some, it might take a life time to
>>do that if they survive no matter how Godly the sponsor(s).
>>Oh and, if the sponsor is having trouble coping with her life then maybe she
>>shouldn't be sponsoring?
>>My 2 cents.
>>Gail
>>
>>
>>
>
> If she wasn't fucked up in the head, she wouldn't
> be in AA in the first place! Alcoholics all have
> really deep mental problems.

you seem like the kind of person to beat up a mentally handicapped child
and steal everything he had..or tip over an old lady in a wheel chair,
only to steal and hock it for cash to attend one of them peep show
things in the big city..

lol, sincerely.....

epicphart

12-04-2004, 10:51 PM

Scott W wrote:
> In article <coodlu$gpo$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, JBCatRB@coldman.com
> says...
>
>>"freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
>>news:_CMrd.224992$df2.69819@edtnps89...
>>JB wrote
>>
>>>||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on
>>
>>a
>>
>>>||| daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for
>>
>>joy ?
>>
>>>|||
>>>||| JB
>>>|||
>>>|||
>>>||
>>
>>Rosie wrote:
>>
>>>|| ABSOLUTELY!
>>>|| we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?
>>>
>>>
>>>Hopefully. Perhaps JB considers absence of alcohol enough. Pity.
>>>
>>
>>Freespeech, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so what makes
>>you think that you have it ?
>>
>>Rosie, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so, what make *you*
>>think that you have it ?
>>
>>I'm asking these questions because your comments suggest to me that
>>you have ideas about what "sobriety" is and also therefore, what it is
>>not. Please share your wisdom.
>>
>
> Sobriety is a state of non-intoxication. Nothing else.
> Thought and words mean nothing. Only your actions count for
> anything.
>

thats a witless shitstain comment, your good at that..you related to
rush limbaugh?

epicphart

12-04-2004, 10:52 PM

Scott W wrote:

>
> Absence of alcohol IS enough. That's the goal, not
> some pie in the sky religious experience. I take
> LSD for that.

obviously...

epicphart

12-04-2004, 10:56 PM

Scott W wrote:
> In article <con7f402dn6@enews1.newsguy.com>, repo@bli.can says...
>
>>"Scott W" <hans_spoon@yahoo.de> wrote in message
>>news:MPG.1c183772883f11b39896b7@News.Individual.NE T...
>>
>>>In article <41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net>, taragreen2@verizon.net
>>>says...
>>>
>>>>rosie readandpost wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
>>>>>alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
>>>>
>>believe
>>
>>>>>some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
>>>>
>>>>See?
>>>>I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
>>>>
>>>>Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
>>>
>>make it
>>
>>>>an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word "different". Just
>>>
>>once.
>>
>>>>Without it being a backhanded put down. It won't hurt. I promise.
>>>>
>>>>And, by the way, I personally believe f2f was better for me as well.
>>>
>>I
>>
>>>>actually suspect for many it might lead to better awarenesses. But I
>>>>don't believe the other is any "less than" or even necessarily
>>>
>>"easier".
>>
>>>>Crikey, half the people at meetings around here are only there
>>>
>>because
>>
>>>>its the easiest way to hook up with friends for coffee. How is that
>>>
>>not
>>
>>>>the "easier softer" way?
>>>>
>>>>Tara
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right on! Just because Rosie like to be psychologically
>>> tortured, doesn't mean that the rest of us do!
>>> Too bad there's so many sadomasochist drunks.
>>> I'd rather drink than deal with those kinds of
>>> people. Next thing they'll want you to hang
>>> from a ceiling fan with a razer spiked dildo
>>> shoved up your ass!
>>
>>In order to stay sober you must deal with your homosexuality.
>>
>>But first you can ignore it with a pink cloud.
>>After some time your memories will go back to when you were butt fucked
>>by who ever played your daddy.
>>
>
> So, since that's what happened to you, that's obviously
> what happened to me and everyone else? Wow! What a revelation,
> you shit-packing, daddy fucking, child-molesting retard!
> You will burn in Hell in the name of Jesus! The best part
> of you dripped out your mamma's asshole! Asshole!
>

wow, full of wisdom, and such a superior intellect...not...

epicphart

12-04-2004, 10:59 PM

Dem Feckers wrote:
> "[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
> news:14wrd.10953$lB6.4943@fe14.usenetserver.com...
>
>>"Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
>>
>>>rosie readandpost wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
>>>>alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
>>>
> believe
>
>>>>some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
>>>
>>Tara- In my case Rosie's correct in believing some choose an "easier,
>>softer, way". I did. I managed nine years to remain alcohol free. I
>
> never
>
>>went to meetings, never had a sponsor. I knew I could handle it
>
> myself. I
>
>>was wrong. My relapse lasted fifteen years.
>
>
> It takes a real man to battle alcoholism on the streets.
>
> You have gain a conscious contact with the force that handles the spiral
> eccentricities of the universe without being flung off the earths
> gravitational spin.
>
> I have to accept the fact that my family did bongs with George
> Washington at Valley Forge and almost perished if it were not for the
> French to save our country and promote individual sovereignity.
>
>
>

lol, i suppose youre a self proclaimed real man?

chuckle..

epicphart

12-04-2004, 11:04 PM

Dem Feckers wrote:
> "Scott W" <hans_spoon@yahoo.de> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1c183772883f11b39896b7@News.Individual.NE T...
>
>>In article <41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net>, taragreen2@verizon.net
>>says...
>>
>>>rosie readandpost wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
>>>>alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
>>>
> believe
>
>>>>some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
>>>
>>>See?
>>>I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
>>>
>>>Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
>>
> make it
>
>>>an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word "different". Just
>>
> once.
>
>>>Without it being a backhanded put down. It won't hurt. I promise.
>>>
>>>And, by the way, I personally believe f2f was better for me as well.
>>
> I
>
>>>actually suspect for many it might lead to better awarenesses. But I
>>>don't believe the other is any "less than" or even necessarily
>>
> "easier".
>
>>>Crikey, half the people at meetings around here are only there
>>
> because
>
>>>its the easiest way to hook up with friends for coffee. How is that
>>
> not
>
>>>the "easier softer" way?
>>>
>>>Tara
>>>
>>
>> Right on! Just because Rosie like to be psychologically
>> tortured, doesn't mean that the rest of us do!
>> Too bad there's so many sadomasochist drunks.
>> I'd rather drink than deal with those kinds of
>> people. Next thing they'll want you to hang
>> from a ceiling fan with a razer spiked dildo
>> shoved up your ass!
>
>
> In order to stay sober you must deal with your homosexuality.
>
> But first you can ignore it with a pink cloud.
> After some time your memories will go back to when you were butt fucked
> by who ever played your daddy.
>
>
>

is this group full of evil wannbe humans, or just post-teen rage filled
burger flippers with resentments deeper than the grand canyon, because
it wasnt their fault? the victims, the desparate for attention, creepy
folk you seem to be?

epicphart

12-04-2004, 11:07 PM

Kai R wrote:
> Scott W wrote:
>
>> Next thing they'll want you to hang
>> from a ceiling fan with a razer spiked dildo
>> shoved up your ass!
>
>
> I hate it when that happens.
>
> Kai

lol

Scott W

12-05-2004, 02:46 AM

In article <41B29502.6060200@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
says...
> Scott W wrote:
> > In article <con7f402dn6@enews1.newsguy.com>, repo@bli.can says...
> >
> >>"Scott W" <hans_spoon@yahoo.de> wrote in message
> >>news:MPG.1c183772883f11b39896b7@News.Individual.NE T...
> >>
> >>>In article <41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net>, taragreen2@verizon.net
> >>>says...
> >>>
> >>>>rosie readandpost wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> >>>>>alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
> >>>>
> >>believe
> >>
> >>>>>some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
> >>>>
> >>>>See?
> >>>>I find this incredibly arrogant rosie.
> >>>>
> >>>>Just because its a different way than *you* needed to go doesn't
> >>>
> >>make it
> >>
> >>>>an "easier" and "softer" one. Try using the word "different". Just
> >>>
> >>once.
> >>
> >>>>Without it being a backhanded put down. It won't hurt. I promise.
> >>>>
> >>>>And, by the way, I personally believe f2f was better for me as well.
> >>>
> >>I
> >>
> >>>>actually suspect for many it might lead to better awarenesses. But I
> >>>>don't believe the other is any "less than" or even necessarily
> >>>
> >>"easier".
> >>
> >>>>Crikey, half the people at meetings around here are only there
> >>>
> >>because
> >>
> >>>>its the easiest way to hook up with friends for coffee. How is that
> >>>
> >>not
> >>
> >>>>the "easier softer" way?
> >>>>
> >>>>Tara
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Right on! Just because Rosie like to be psychologically
> >>> tortured, doesn't mean that the rest of us do!
> >>> Too bad there's so many sadomasochist drunks.
> >>> I'd rather drink than deal with those kinds of
> >>> people. Next thing they'll want you to hang
> >>> from a ceiling fan with a razer spiked dildo
> >>> shoved up your ass!
> >>
> >>In order to stay sober you must deal with your homosexuality.
> >>
> >>But first you can ignore it with a pink cloud.
> >>After some time your memories will go back to when you were butt fucked
> >>by who ever played your daddy.
> >>
> >
> > So, since that's what happened to you, that's obviously
> > what happened to me and everyone else? Wow! What a revelation,
> > you shit-packing, daddy fucking, child-molesting retard!
> > You will burn in Hell in the name of Jesus! The best part
> > of you dripped out your mamma's asshole! Asshole!
> >
>
> wow, full of wisdom, and such a superior intellect...not...
>
>
"All that mattes..is...you are alive..you are alive, Captain..."
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Scott W

12-05-2004, 02:47 AM

In article <41B293C9.7040607@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
says...
> Scott W wrote:
> > In article <coodlu$gpo$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, JBCatRB@coldman.com
> > says...
> >
> >>"freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
> >>news:_CMrd.224992$df2.69819@edtnps89...
> >>JB wrote
> >>
> >>>||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages on
> >>
> >>a
> >>
> >>>||| daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause for
> >>
> >>joy ?
> >>
> >>>|||
> >>>||| JB
> >>>|||
> >>>|||
> >>>||
> >>
> >>Rosie wrote:
> >>
> >>>|| ABSOLUTELY!
> >>>|| we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Hopefully. Perhaps JB considers absence of alcohol enough. Pity.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Freespeech, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so what makes
> >>you think that you have it ?
> >>
> >>Rosie, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so, what make *you*
> >>think that you have it ?
> >>
> >>I'm asking these questions because your comments suggest to me that
> >>you have ideas about what "sobriety" is and also therefore, what it is
> >>not. Please share your wisdom.
> >>
> >
> > Sobriety is a state of non-intoxication. Nothing else.
> > Thought and words mean nothing. Only your actions count for
> > anything.
> >
>
> thats a witless shitstain comment, your good at that..you related to
> rush limbaugh?
>
>
"a long long time ago... but I can still remember...the
way that music made me feel inside... and I knew if I
had my chance, that I could make those people dance.."
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Scott W

12-05-2004, 02:48 AM

In article <41B29338.1040609@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
says...
> Scott W wrote:
> > In article <H2Rrd.69$eU.27@fe05.lga>, loverules@myhouse.com says...
> >
> >>JB wrote:
> >>
> >>>"freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:PBMrd.224989$df2.76049@edtnps89...
> >>>
> >>>>It's much, much easier to ignore an ONLINE sponsor.
> >>>
> >>>IMO *any* Sponsor's advice can be ignored. I know a lady who goes to
> >>>the same f2f meeting that I do who has on more than one occasion
> >>>ignored her Sponsor's advice to her to not pick up a drink when she's
> >>>feeling unable to cope but rather picks up the phone and calls her
> >>>Sponsor or another AA member who's phone number she has. Other advice
> >>>which has been passed on to this lady by her Sponsor because it was
> >>>advice that her Sponsor has been given and gained benefit from, has
> >>>also been ignored. This lady continues to drink and has made several
> >>>attempts to commit suicide. In contrast, her Sponsor continues to not
> >>>drink and when she applies AA's teachings to her conduct, invariably
> >>>(I think that's the right word) she finds it easier to cope with her
> >>>life. If this lady Sponsee decides that she might benefit from having
> >>>a
> >>>different Sponsor - or no Sponsor - she could ditch the one she now
> >>>has. However, fundamentally, if she doesn't want to stop drinking,
> >>>why bother to do this ?
> >>>
> >>>JB
> >>
> >>It is very common to hear a sponsor say that their sponsee went back out or
> >>is still drinking. I have yet to hear a sponsor say that they have never had
> >>a sponsee go back out.
> >>The poor woman is an alcoholic for God's sake! Maybe she wants like hell to
> >>not drink and to get her life back. For some, it might take a life time to
> >>do that if they survive no matter how Godly the sponsor(s).
> >>Oh and, if the sponsor is having trouble coping with her life then maybe she
> >>shouldn't be sponsoring?
> >>My 2 cents.
> >>Gail
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > If she wasn't fucked up in the head, she wouldn't
> > be in AA in the first place! Alcoholics all have
> > really deep mental problems.
>
> you seem like the kind of person to beat up a mentally handicapped child
> and steal everything he had..or tip over an old lady in a wheel chair,
> only to steal and hock it for cash to attend one of them peep show
> things in the big city..
>
> lol, sincerely.....
>
>
"but Febuary made me shiver, with every paper I delivered..."
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Scott W

12-05-2004, 02:49 AM

In article <41B291DD.30509@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
says...
> Scott W wrote:
> > In article <MPG.1c19a66d219947e69896e5@News.Individual.NET>,
> > hans_spoon@yahoo.de says...
> >
> >>In article <YKSrd.270578$9b.149956@edtnps84>,
> >>youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com says...
> >>
> >>>Dem Feckers wrote:
> >>>|| "[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
> >>>|| news:14wrd.10953$lB6.4943@fe14.usenetserver.com...
> >>>|||
> >>>||| "Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>>||| news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
> >>>|||| rosie readandpost wrote:
> >>>||||
> >>>||||| my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> >>>||||| alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
> >>>||||| believe some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
> >>>|||
> >>>||| Tara- In my case Rosie's correct in believing some choose an
> >>>||| "easier, softer, way". I did. I managed nine years to remain
> >>>||| alcohol free. I never went to meetings, never had a sponsor. I knew
> >>>||| I could handle it myself. I was wrong. My relapse lasted fifteen
> >>>||| years.
> >>>||
> >>>|| It takes a real man to battle alcoholism on the streets.
> >>>
> >>>So, I take it, that your street battle against alcoholism
> >>>failed...miserably.
> >>
> >> Ehehehehe. Life's tough for him, ya know, it's hard to make
> >> it when you're born without a brain-stem.
> >>
> >>
> >>>||
> >>>|| You have gain a conscious contact with the force that handles the
> >>>|| spiral eccentricities of the universe without being flung off the
> >>>|| earths gravitational spin.
> >>>||
> >>>|| I have to accept the fact that my family did bongs with George
> >>>|| Washington at Valley Forge and almost perished if it were not for the
> >>>|| French to save our country and promote individual sovereignity.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> > He's too busy manipulating his dick.
>
> and youve been watchin' intently...ick
>
>
"so bye bye miss american pie drove my chevy to the
levy and the levy was dry... and good old boys
drinkin wisky and rye sayin' this will be the day
that I die..."
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Scott W

12-05-2004, 02:50 AM

In article <41B2918D.20503@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
says...
> Scott W wrote:
> > In article <OOSrd.270646$9b.4989@edtnps84>,
> > youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com says...
> >
> >>Scott W wrote:
> >>|| In article <coodlu$gpo$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, JBCatRB@coldman.com
> >>|| says...
> >>|||
> >>||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in message
> >>||| news:_CMrd.224992$df2.69819@edtnps89...
> >>||| JB wrote
> >>||||||| Finally, if an alcoholic who wants to no longer drink manages
> >>||||||| on a daily basis to achieve their goal, oughtn't that be cause
> >>||||||| for joy ?
> >>|||||||
> >>||||||| JB
> >>|||||||
> >>|||||||
> >>||||||
> >>||| Rosie wrote:
> >>|||||| ABSOLUTELY!
> >>|||||| we're talking SOBRIETY and not "dry drunk" right?
> >>||||
> >>||||
> >>|||| Hopefully. Perhaps JB considers absence of alcohol enough. Pity.
> >>||||
> >>||| Freespeech, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so what makes
> >>||| you think that you have it ?
> >>|||
> >>||| Rosie, do you believe that you have sobriety ? If so, what make
> >>||| *you* think that you have it ?
> >>|||
> >>||| I'm asking these questions because your comments suggest to me that
> >>||| you have ideas about what "sobriety" is and also therefore, what it
> >>||| is not. Please share your wisdom.
> >>|||
> >>|| Sobriety is a state of non-intoxication. Nothing else.
> >>|| Thought and words mean nothing. Only your actions count for
> >>|| anything.
> >>
> >>Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of thinking.
> >>
> >
> >
> > And two fingers of Two Fingers is the action of drinking!
> >
> > Our will-power antagonizes behaviors of impulse. Addiction
> >
> > centers around Greed. Greed and gluttony can be antagonized
> >
> > by control of physical behavior. Physical behavior controls
> >
> > thought. you ARE what you DO not what you think or say.
> >
> > It's that simple.
> >
> >
> >
> >>||
> >>|| --
> >>|| "I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> like you have a clue..hehheee
>
>
" well as they fell and landed on the grass
the players tried with a foward passs.."
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Dem Feckers

12-05-2004, 06:17 AM

"epicphart" <plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41B296F6.3000201@yahoo.com...
> Dem Feckers wrote:
> >>>Tara
> >>>
> >>
> >> Right on! Just because Rosie like to be psychologically
> >> tortured, doesn't mean that the rest of us do!
> >> Too bad there's so many sadomasochist drunks.
> >> I'd rather drink than deal with those kinds of
> >> people. Next thing they'll want you to hang
> >> from a ceiling fan with a razer spiked dildo
> >> shoved up your ass!
> >
> >
> > In order to stay sober you must deal with your homosexuality.
> >
> > But first you can ignore it with a pink cloud.
> > After some time your memories will go back to when you were butt
fucked
> > by who ever played your daddy.
> >
> >
> >
>
> is this group full of evil wannbe humans, or just post-teen rage
filled
> burger flippers with resentments deeper than the grand canyon, because
> it wasnt their fault? the victims, the desparate for attention, creepy
> folk you seem to be?

Yea, huh huh!

George bush is a deluded psychopath hallucinating angels and ghosts and
thought I was a cuban spy. So in 1982 he and the secret service drugged
and kidnapped me to be inquisitioned by Richard Nixon and his daddy. His
mommy told me when I was drugged in thier kitchen that he drinks too
much gin. Then brother jeb came in with Noelle and another toddler and
said I was a sicko because his brother drugged me. Noelle likes to pose
as a doctor to buy drugs to trade them for crack now.
Anyway I now have a microchip in my back that Bill Clinton used to find
me when I was in Arkansas and secret service agents have been following
me around the country. Some acting like homosexuals to try to get me to
fuck em up the butt.

I told some of my story to Texas governor Ann Richards and Tom Clancy
when I was in houston but that only got me a loan for money that I
cannot pay for today and the state of texas uses that to call me on the
phone and call me names.

So yea I am an evil wanna be human that is a descendant of real patriots
that started the US military with George Washington in 1775. They did
bongs at valley forge during the winter of 1777-78 and turned the Brtish
fort at Yorktown into bomb bongs 1781. Grandpa Bomb was an artist and
his freedom of expression exhibit was a blast.

Let Freedom Ring

Exterminate the christian government.

Dem Feckers

12-05-2004, 06:18 AM

" rosie readandpost" <readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:h5Frd.106889$T02.98132@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> : ||
> : || i apparently am just like you freespeech.....................i
> :
> : Not really. You are a hot babe, while I am just....another facet
> of Sharx.
> :
> :
> :
>
> LOL!
> those days are long gone, i'm afraid!

Be careful you will bust his alter ego.

Scott W

12-05-2004, 01:18 PM

In article <41B29068.3090404@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
says...
> Scott W wrote:
> > In article <31c349F39sfvrU1@individual.net>, not@home.com says...
> >
> >>"Scott W" <hans_spoon@yahoo.de> wrote in message
> >>news:MPG.1c1a5b6e5693a9f298970e@News.Individual.NE T...
> >>
> >>| >
> >>| >
> >>| >
> >>| Females are incapable of sound logic.
> >>| --
> >>
> >>
> >>Maybe that's what your problem is, have you checked your hormones lately?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Don't need to. I'm alllllllll man, ya bitch!
>
> thats not what your ex-gf told me...lmao
>
>
How would she tell you anything? She lives in Angland. Pud.
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Scott W

12-05-2004, 01:20 PM

In article <41B290D8.8070607@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
says...
> Scott W wrote:
> > In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> > readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
> >
> >>: ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
> >>message
> >>
> >>:
> >>: Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
> >>thinking.
> >>:
> >>
> >>
> >>i like that!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Females are incapable of sound logic.
>
> youre incapable of any logic...
>
Oh yes I am!

> get off the booze, you have nothing else to loose..and i mean nothing..
>
>
How would you know either way? Oh, btw, I work for your
ISP. I should look up your address and have 50 pizzas
delivered to your door, call girls show up and pissed
off tow truck drivers! Pud!

--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Dem Feckers

12-05-2004, 04:48 PM

"epicphart" <plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41B295CA.7030302@yahoo.com...
> Dem Feckers wrote:
> > "[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
> > news:14wrd.10953$lB6.4943@fe14.usenetserver.com...
> >
> >>"Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
> >>
> >>>rosie readandpost wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> >>>>alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
> >>>
> > believe
> >
> >>>>some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
> >>>
> >>Tara- In my case Rosie's correct in believing some choose an
"easier,
> >>softer, way". I did. I managed nine years to remain alcohol free. I
> >
> > never
> >
> >>went to meetings, never had a sponsor. I knew I could handle it
> >
> > myself. I
> >
> >>was wrong. My relapse lasted fifteen years.
> >
> >
> > It takes a real man to battle alcoholism on the streets.
> >
> > You have gain a conscious contact with the force that handles the
spiral
> > eccentricities of the universe without being flung off the earths
> > gravitational spin.
> >
> > I have to accept the fact that my family did bongs with George
> > Washington at Valley Forge and almost perished if it were not for
the
> > French to save our country and promote individual sovereignity.
> >
> >
> >
>
> lol, i suppose youre a self proclaimed real man?
>
> chuckle..

I am more man than most of these socalled eagles who are nothing more
than cowards.

It took 3 us presidents, 8 budweisers, and the secret service to take me
down.

voodoo disease 666

epicphart

12-05-2004, 09:31 PM

Scott W wrote:
> In article <41B290D8.8070607@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> says...
>
>>Scott W wrote:
>>
>>>In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
>>>readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>: ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
>>>>message
>>>>
>>>>:
>>>>: Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
>>>>thinking.
>>>>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>i like that!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Females are incapable of sound logic.
>>
>>youre incapable of any logic...
>>
>
> Oh yes I am!
>
>
>>get off the booze, you have nothing else to loose..and i mean nothing..
>>
>>
>
> How would you know either way? Oh, btw, I work for your
> ISP. I should look up your address and have 50 pizzas
> delivered to your door, call girls show up and pissed
> off tow truck drivers! Pud!
>

i dare ya......

work for my isp eh? bet they'd love to see your posts to their customers
from one of their employees..

the ice is geting thinner...

epicphart

12-05-2004, 09:32 PM

Dem Feckers wrote:
> "epicphart" <plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:41B295CA.7030302@yahoo.com...
>
>>Dem Feckers wrote:
>>
>>>"[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
>>>news:14wrd.10953$lB6.4943@fe14.usenetserver.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>rosie readandpost wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
>>>>>>alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
>>>>>
>>>believe
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
>>>>>
>>>>Tara- In my case Rosie's correct in believing some choose an
>>>
> "easier,
>
>>>>softer, way". I did. I managed nine years to remain alcohol free. I
>>>
>>>never
>>>
>>>
>>>>went to meetings, never had a sponsor. I knew I could handle it
>>>
>>>myself. I
>>>
>>>
>>>>was wrong. My relapse lasted fifteen years.
>>>
>>>
>>>It takes a real man to battle alcoholism on the streets.
>>>
>>>You have gain a conscious contact with the force that handles the
>>
> spiral
>
>>>eccentricities of the universe without being flung off the earths
>>>gravitational spin.
>>>
>>>I have to accept the fact that my family did bongs with George
>>>Washington at Valley Forge and almost perished if it were not for
>>
> the
>
>>>French to save our country and promote individual sovereignity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>lol, i suppose youre a self proclaimed real man?
>>
>>chuckle..
>
>
> I am more man than most of these socalled eagles who are nothing more
> than cowards.
>
> It took 3 us presidents, 8 budweisers, and the secret service to take me
> down.
>
>
> voodoo disease 666
>
>

uh huh

Scott W

12-06-2004, 12:58 AM

In article <41B3D2A5.2090208@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
says...
> Scott W wrote:
> > In article <41B290D8.8070607@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> > says...
> >
> >>Scott W wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> >>>readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>: ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
> >>>>message
> >>>>
> >>>>:
> >>>>: Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
> >>>>thinking.
> >>>>:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>i like that!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Females are incapable of sound logic.
> >>
> >>youre incapable of any logic...
> >>
> >
> > Oh yes I am!
> >
> >
> >>get off the booze, you have nothing else to loose..and i mean nothing..
> >>
> >>
> >
> > How would you know either way? Oh, btw, I work for your
> > ISP. I should look up your address and have 50 pizzas
> > delivered to your door, call girls show up and pissed
> > off tow truck drivers! Pud!
> >
>
> i dare ya......
>
> work for my isp eh? bet they'd love to see your posts to their customers
> from one of their employees..
>
> the ice is geting thinner...
>
>
Tell me my IP address, laddy.
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Colonel polyPs

12-06-2004, 10:25 AM

"epicphart" <plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41B3D2D0.80905@yahoo.com...
> Dem Feckers wrote:
> > "epicphart" <plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:41B295CA.7030302@yahoo.com...
> >
> >>Dem Feckers wrote:
> >>
> >>>"[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
> >>>news:14wrd.10953$lB6.4943@fe14.usenetserver.com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>"Tara" <taragreen2@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>>>news:41AE8796.EAB48347@verizon.net...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>rosie readandpost wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>my alcoholic self didn't want it though.....................my
> >>>>>>alcoholic self wanted to take the "easier, softer, way" as i
> >>>>>
> >>>believe
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>some choose, and the results often times are disastrous.
> >>>>>
> >>>>Tara- In my case Rosie's correct in believing some choose an
> >>>
> > "easier,
> >
> >>>>softer, way". I did. I managed nine years to remain alcohol free.
I
> >>>
> >>>never
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>went to meetings, never had a sponsor. I knew I could handle it
> >>>
> >>>myself. I
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>was wrong. My relapse lasted fifteen years.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>It takes a real man to battle alcoholism on the streets.
> >>>
> >>>You have gain a conscious contact with the force that handles the
> >>
> > spiral
> >
> >>>eccentricities of the universe without being flung off the earths
> >>>gravitational spin.
> >>>
> >>>I have to accept the fact that my family did bongs with George
> >>>Washington at Valley Forge and almost perished if it were not for
> >>
> > the
> >
> >>>French to save our country and promote individual sovereignity.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>lol, i suppose youre a self proclaimed real man?
> >>
> >>chuckle..
> >
> >
> > I am more man than most of these socalled eagles who are nothing
more
> > than cowards.
> >
> > It took 3 us presidents, 8 budweisers, and the secret service to
take me
> > down.
> >
> >
> > voodoo disease 666
> >
> >
>
> uh huh

Thats right.
I was enjoying watching the waves beat the shorleine whne George Bush
came up to me drunk on gin and saw that I was drinking budweiser he
thought I was a cuban spy and chloriformed me with the secret service.
I reported this to the state of texas and they used that information to
cooerce me into taking out a loan that they used usury fees on me that
has prevented me from earning a living and they can call me up on the
phone and harrass me.
The SU is controlle dby cowardly criminals that hide behind large groups
of people like AA and create problems to individuals lik eme.

I can only hope for a civil war so I can leglly kill those who vote to
undermine my empowerment.

Exterminate the christian government.

epicphart

12-07-2004, 01:39 PM

Scott W wrote:
> In article <41B3D2A5.2090208@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> says...
>
>>Scott W wrote:
>>
>>>In article <41B290D8.8070607@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
>>>says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Scott W wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
>>>>>readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>: ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
>>>>>>message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>:
>>>>>>: Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
>>>>>>thinking.
>>>>>>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>i like that!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Females are incapable of sound logic.
>>>>
>>>>youre incapable of any logic...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Oh yes I am!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>get off the booze, you have nothing else to loose..and i mean nothing..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> How would you know either way? Oh, btw, I work for your
>>> ISP. I should look up your address and have 50 pizzas
>>> delivered to your door, call girls show up and pissed
>>> off tow truck drivers! Pud!
>>>
>>
>>i dare ya......
>>
>>work for my isp eh? bet they'd love to see your posts to their customers
>>from one of their employees..
>>
>>the ice is geting thinner...
>>
>>
>
> Tell me my IP address, laddy.

well, i have the IP already. But it can be spoofed. My best path of
getting Bresnan aware of you online activities would be to forward the
headers of you abusive reports. If i give them your IP, I just get the
run-around..btdt, even got a t-shirt...

are you like 17 may 19 yrs old or whaaa?

give us some mo ammo bro

epicphart

12-07-2004, 01:45 PM

Colonel polyPs wrote:

snip colonsmoker remrks

> I can only hope for a civil war so I can leglly kill those who vote to
> undermine my empowerment.
>
> Exterminate the christian government.
>
>
>

i think youd last a much shorter time than my grandma if this irrational
bizarre situation occured....

wow, that made me laugh...
hadnt laughed in a few days...

and are you preoccupied with feelings of violence or wish to harm
others? and would you act upon those feelings?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Scott W

12-07-2004, 07:30 PM

In article <41B606E1.4040003@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
says...
> Scott W wrote:
> > In article <41B3D2A5.2090208@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> > says...
> >
> >>Scott W wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <41B290D8.8070607@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> >>>says...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Scott W wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> >>>>>readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>: ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
> >>>>>>message
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>:
> >>>>>>: Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
> >>>>>>thinking.
> >>>>>>:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>i like that!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Females are incapable of sound logic.
> >>>>
> >>>>youre incapable of any logic...
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Oh yes I am!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>get off the booze, you have nothing else to loose..and i mean nothing..
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> How would you know either way? Oh, btw, I work for your
> >>> ISP. I should look up your address and have 50 pizzas
> >>> delivered to your door, call girls show up and pissed
> >>> off tow truck drivers! Pud!
> >>>
> >>
> >>i dare ya......
> >>
> >>work for my isp eh? bet they'd love to see your posts to their customers
> >>from one of their employees..
> >>
> >>the ice is geting thinner...
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Tell me my IP address, laddy.
>
> well, i have the IP already. But it can be spoofed. My best path of
> getting Bresnan aware of you online activities would be to forward the
> headers of you abusive reports. If i give them your IP, I just get the
> run-around..btdt, even got a t-shirt...
>
> are you like 17 may 19 yrs old or whaaa?
>
> give us some mo ammo bro
>
>
.357 or 45?
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Scott W

12-07-2004, 07:30 PM

In article <41B606E1.4040003@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
says...
> Scott W wrote:
> > In article <41B3D2A5.2090208@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> > says...
> >
> >>Scott W wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <41B290D8.8070607@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> >>>says...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Scott W wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> >>>>>readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>: ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
> >>>>>>message
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>:
> >>>>>>: Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
> >>>>>>thinking.
> >>>>>>:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>i like that!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Females are incapable of sound logic.
> >>>>
> >>>>youre incapable of any logic...
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Oh yes I am!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>get off the booze, you have nothing else to loose..and i mean nothing..
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> How would you know either way? Oh, btw, I work for your
> >>> ISP. I should look up your address and have 50 pizzas
> >>> delivered to your door, call girls show up and pissed
> >>> off tow truck drivers! Pud!
> >>>
> >>
> >>i dare ya......
> >>
> >>work for my isp eh? bet they'd love to see your posts to their customers
> >>from one of their employees..
> >>
> >>the ice is geting thinner...
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Tell me my IP address, laddy.
>
> well, i have the IP already. But it can be spoofed. My best path of
> getting Bresnan aware of you online activities would be to forward the
> headers of you abusive reports. If i give them your IP, I just get the
> run-around..btdt, even got a t-shirt...
>
> are you like 17 may 19 yrs old or whaaa?
>
> give us some mo ammo bro
>
>
357 or 9 MM?
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

epicphart

12-07-2004, 11:54 PM

Scott W wrote:
> In article <41B606E1.4040003@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> says...
>
>>Scott W wrote:
>>
>>>In article <41B3D2A5.2090208@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
>>>says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Scott W wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <41B290D8.8070607@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
>>>>>says...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Scott W wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
>>>>>>>readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>: ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>message
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>:
>>>>>>>>: Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
>>>>>>>>thinking.
>>>>>>>>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>i like that!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Females are incapable of sound logic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>youre incapable of any logic...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh yes I am!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>get off the booze, you have nothing else to loose..and i mean nothing..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>How would you know either way? Oh, btw, I work for your
>>>>>ISP. I should look up your address and have 50 pizzas
>>>>>delivered to your door, call girls show up and pissed
>>>>>off tow truck drivers! Pud!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>i dare ya......
>>>>
>>>>work for my isp eh? bet they'd love to see your posts to their customers
>>>
>>>>from one of their employees..
>>>
>>>>the ice is geting thinner...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Tell me my IP address, laddy.
>>
>>well, i have the IP already. But it can be spoofed. My best path of
>>getting Bresnan aware of you online activities would be to forward the
>>headers of you abusive reports. If i give them your IP, I just get the
>>run-around..btdt, even got a t-shirt...
>>
>>are you like 17 may 19 yrs old or whaaa?
>>
>>give us some mo ammo bro
>>
>>
>
> .357 or 45?

i knew u were a dipshit....

Jesus loves you Scott

epicphart

12-07-2004, 11:54 PM

Scott W

12-08-2004, 12:17 AM

In article <41B69707.2030008@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
says...
> Scott W wrote:
> > In article <41B606E1.4040003@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> > says...
> >
> >>Scott W wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <41B3D2A5.2090208@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> >>>says...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Scott W wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>In article <41B290D8.8070607@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> >>>>>says...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Scott W wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> >>>>>>>readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>: ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
> >>>>>>>>message
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>:
> >>>>>>>>: Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
> >>>>>>>>thinking.
> >>>>>>>>:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>i like that!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Females are incapable of sound logic.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>youre incapable of any logic...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Oh yes I am!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>get off the booze, you have nothing else to loose..and i mean nothing..
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>How would you know either way? Oh, btw, I work for your
> >>>>>ISP. I should look up your address and have 50 pizzas
> >>>>>delivered to your door, call girls show up and pissed
> >>>>>off tow truck drivers! Pud!
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>i dare ya......
> >>>>
> >>>>work for my isp eh? bet they'd love to see your posts to their customers
> >>>
> >>>>from one of their employees..
> >>>
> >>>>the ice is geting thinner...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Tell me my IP address, laddy.
> >>
> >>well, i have the IP already. But it can be spoofed. My best path of
> >>getting Bresnan aware of you online activities would be to forward the
> >>headers of you abusive reports. If i give them your IP, I just get the
> >>run-around..btdt, even got a t-shirt...
> >>
> >>are you like 17 may 19 yrs old or whaaa?
> >>
> >>give us some mo ammo bro
> >>
> >>
> >
> > .357 or 45?
>
> i knew u were a dipshit....
>
> Jesus loves you Scott
>
>
Life's filled with stupid shit bro. If you don't
like it you can leave it. But Jesus love you more
than you will know. woe woe woe
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Scott W

12-08-2004, 12:38 AM

In article <41B69728.1040807@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
says...
> Scott W wrote:
> > In article <41B606E1.4040003@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> > says...
> >
> >>Scott W wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <41B3D2A5.2090208@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> >>>says...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Scott W wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>In article <41B290D8.8070607@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> >>>>>says...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Scott W wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> >>>>>>>readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>: ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com> wrote in
> >>>>>>>>message
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>:
> >>>>>>>>: Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
> >>>>>>>>thinking.
> >>>>>>>>:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>i like that!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Females are incapable of sound logic.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>youre incapable of any logic...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Oh yes I am!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>get off the booze, you have nothing else to loose..and i mean nothing..
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>How would you know either way? Oh, btw, I work for your
> >>>>>ISP. I should look up your address and have 50 pizzas
> >>>>>delivered to your door, call girls show up and pissed
> >>>>>off tow truck drivers! Pud!
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>i dare ya......
> >>>>
> >>>>work for my isp eh? bet they'd love to see your posts to their customers
> >>>
> >>>>from one of their employees..
> >>>
> >>>>the ice is geting thinner...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Tell me my IP address, laddy.
> >>
> >>well, i have the IP already. But it can be spoofed. My best path of
> >>getting Bresnan aware of you online activities would be to forward the
> >>headers of you abusive reports. If i give them your IP, I just get the
> >>run-around..btdt, even got a t-shirt...
> >>
> >>are you like 17 may 19 yrs old or whaaa?
> >>
> >>give us some mo ammo bro
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 357 or 9 MM?
>
> there meds for this type of shit eh?
>
>
You know what? I'm gonna buttfuck your ass!
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Colonel polyPs

12-08-2004, 11:02 AM

"epicphart" <plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41B69707.2030008@yahoo.com...
> Scott W wrote:
> > In article <41B606E1.4040003@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> > says...
> >
> >>Scott W wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <41B3D2A5.2090208@yahoo.com>,
plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> >>>says...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Scott W wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>In article <41B290D8.8070607@yahoo.com>,
plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> >>>>>says...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Scott W wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> >>>>>>>readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>: ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com>
wrote in
> >>>>>>>>message
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>:
> >>>>>>>>: Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
> >>>>>>>>thinking.
> >>>>>>>>:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>i like that!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Females are incapable of sound logic.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>youre incapable of any logic...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Oh yes I am!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>get off the booze, you have nothing else to loose..and i mean
nothing..
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>How would you know either way? Oh, btw, I work for your
> >>>>>ISP. I should look up your address and have 50 pizzas
> >>>>>delivered to your door, call girls show up and pissed
> >>>>>off tow truck drivers! Pud!
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>i dare ya......
> >>>>
> >>>>work for my isp eh? bet they'd love to see your posts to their
customers
> >>>
> >>>>from one of their employees..
> >>>
> >>>>the ice is geting thinner...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Tell me my IP address, laddy.
> >>
> >>well, i have the IP already. But it can be spoofed. My best path of
> >>getting Bresnan aware of you online activities would be to forward
the
> >>headers of you abusive reports. If i give them your IP, I just get
the
> >>run-around..btdt, even got a t-shirt...
> >>
> >>are you like 17 may 19 yrs old or whaaa?
> >>
> >>give us some mo ammo bro
> >>
> >>
> >
> > .357 or 45?
>
> i knew u were a dipshit....
>
> Jesus loves you Scott

Jesus was the product of a jew rape.

Colonel polyPs

12-08-2004, 11:08 AM

"epicphart" <plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41B60858.2060002@yahoo.com...
> Colonel polyPs wrote:
>
> snip colonsmoker remrks
>
> > I can only hope for a civil war so I can leglly kill those who vote
to
> > undermine my empowerment.
> >
> > Exterminate the christian government.
> >
> >
> >
>
> i think youd last a much shorter time than my grandma if this
irrational
> bizarre situation occured....
>
> wow, that made me laugh...
> hadnt laughed in a few days...
>
> and are you preoccupied with feelings of violence or wish to harm
> others? and would you act upon those feelings?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.

I never hurt anybody. But that has not stopped the secret service from
swinging baseball bats close to my childs head and assaulting him in
front of federal Judges Fucks courtroom while I testified or invading my
property at gunpoint or kidnapping me drugging me inquisitioning me and
planting a goddamned microchip in my back.

I am a law abiding citizen who is a violent target of the christina jew
cop government and the only hope I have is for a civil war so I could
legally defend myself and kill those who seek to overturn the principles
my family fought for when they started this country in 1775 with George
Washington.

Scott W

12-08-2004, 01:44 PM

In article <cp7fn602qq4@enews3.newsguy.com>, USisEvil@vooodoo.diz
says...
>
> "epicphart" <plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:41B69707.2030008@yahoo.com...
> > Scott W wrote:
> > > In article <41B606E1.4040003@yahoo.com>, plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> > > says...
> > >
> > >>Scott W wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>In article <41B3D2A5.2090208@yahoo.com>,
> plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> > >>>says...
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Scott W wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>In article <41B290D8.8070607@yahoo.com>,
> plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> > >>>>>says...
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>Scott W wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> > >>>>>>>readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>: ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com>
> wrote in
> > >>>>>>>>message
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>:
> > >>>>>>>>: Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the ACTION of
> > >>>>>>>>thinking.
> > >>>>>>>>:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>i like that!
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>Females are incapable of sound logic.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>youre incapable of any logic...
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Oh yes I am!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>get off the booze, you have nothing else to loose..and i mean
> nothing..
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>How would you know either way? Oh, btw, I work for your
> > >>>>>ISP. I should look up your address and have 50 pizzas
> > >>>>>delivered to your door, call girls show up and pissed
> > >>>>>off tow truck drivers! Pud!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>i dare ya......
> > >>>>
> > >>>>work for my isp eh? bet they'd love to see your posts to their
> customers
> > >>>
> > >>>>from one of their employees..
> > >>>
> > >>>>the ice is geting thinner...
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Tell me my IP address, laddy.
> > >>
> > >>well, i have the IP already. But it can be spoofed. My best path of
> > >>getting Bresnan aware of you online activities would be to forward
> the
> > >>headers of you abusive reports. If i give them your IP, I just get
> the
> > >>run-around..btdt, even got a t-shirt...
> > >>
> > >>are you like 17 may 19 yrs old or whaaa?
> > >>
> > >>give us some mo ammo bro
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > .357 or 45?
> >
> > i knew u were a dipshit....
> >
> > Jesus loves you Scott
>
> Jesus was the product of a jew rape.
>
>
>
I find your anti-semitism offensive.
--
"I hate bears. Anyhow, the more the merrier!" -B Dylan

Colonel polyPs

12-09-2004, 10:20 AM

"Scott W" <hans_spoon@yahoo.de> wrote in message
news:31p3t8F3att9kU2@individual.net...
> In article <cp7fn602qq4@enews3.newsguy.com>, USisEvil@vooodoo.diz
> says...
> >
> > "epicphart" <plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:41B69707.2030008@yahoo.com...
> > > Scott W wrote:
> > > > In article <41B606E1.4040003@yahoo.com>,
plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> > > > says...
> > > >
> > > >>Scott W wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>In article <41B3D2A5.2090208@yahoo.com>,
> > plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> > > >>>says...
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>Scott W wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>In article <41B290D8.8070607@yahoo.com>,
> > plazmadroidNOSPAM@yahoo.com
> > > >>>>>says...
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>Scott W wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>In article <h52sd.110774$T02.72478@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> > > >>>>>>>readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com says...
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>: ||| "freespeech" <youcanttshutmeupanymore@willtalk.com>
> > wrote in
> > > >>>>>>>>message
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>:
> > > >>>>>>>>: Words are the ACTION of speaking. Thoughts are the
ACTION of
> > > >>>>>>>>thinking.
> > > >>>>>>>>:
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>i like that!
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>Females are incapable of sound logic.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>youre incapable of any logic...
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Oh yes I am!
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>get off the booze, you have nothing else to loose..and i
mean
> > nothing..
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>How would you know either way? Oh, btw, I work for your
> > > >>>>>ISP. I should look up your address and have 50 pizzas
> > > >>>>>delivered to your door, call girls show up and pissed
> > > >>>>>off tow truck drivers! Pud!
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>i dare ya......
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>work for my isp eh? bet they'd love to see your posts to their
> > customers
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>from one of their employees..
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>the ice is geting thinner...
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Tell me my IP address, laddy.
> > > >>
> > > >>well, i have the IP already. But it can be spoofed. My best path
of
> > > >>getting Bresnan aware of you online activities would be to
forward
> > the
> > > >>headers of you abusive reports. If i give them your IP, I just
get
> > the
> > > >>run-around..btdt, even got a t-shirt...
> > > >>
> > > >>are you like 17 may 19 yrs old or whaaa?
> > > >>
> > > >>give us some mo ammo bro
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > .357 or 45?
> > >
> > > i knew u were a dipshit....
> > >
> > > Jesus loves you Scott
> >
> > Jesus was the product of a jew rape.
> >

I take it you do not celebrate the rape on december 25.