Re: A personal message to those whom I irritate

[Gail]

"catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:bf9vmu$l5e$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I apologise:
>

For What?


> - for having managed to stay off booze for the past few weeks without
having attended AA meetings;

That is your choice completely. It does not affect me at all.

>
> - for the fact that my success appears to greatly irritate you,

No one here is irritated except you, hon. I have been where you are and I
know it appears that some are irritated with you, but not so. You are
posting in a group about alcoholism and recovery. There will be things you
hear or are told about you that you may have a hard time accepting. I didn't
want to hear what I was doing wrong. I am glad I started listening to the
suggestions and started taking a good look at myself, not everyone else.


and finally
>
> - for deciding to stick around and therefore to continue to further
irritate you.

I have a feeling that isn't the way it will work in this group..;)

>
> Now, I'm thanking you for your robust questioning of and comments on
things I have said. I am happy
> to admit that you, as well as others here, are: making me question my
beliefs;

That is good. My old beliefs kept me drunk. I had to change a lot of my
beliefs syetem in order to start recovering.


opening my eyes and
> ears to many new ideas; and furthering my understanding of how alcoholism
can be successfully
> overcome. I'm very grateful for all these things. If me telling you that I
consider you to be a good
> influence on me makes you happy, then I , too, shall be happy.

Lastly, I don't base my happiness on anyone. I did that for years and that
kept me drunk, too. I had to learn how to be happy with and love myself
before I could be truly happy or love anything else.

>
> I hope you will continue to take an interest in my efforts to stay off
booze.

Hon, that is what we are here for. No one in here wants to harm or hurt you.
I wish for you all that has been given to me. Stick around and even make
some meetings. Are you afraid to go to a meeting or have concerns about
going? Maybe we can help. :)

>
> All the very best
>
> JB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Gail]

> "catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:bf9vmu$l5e$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...


>> - for having managed to stay off booze for the past few weeks


I for got to tell you that a few weeks is great! When I first attemped it,
and many times, a day seemed like an eternity..:) I am glad that you haven't
picked up a drink.
Please don't killfile us. You just might miss out on something you need to
hear. ;) For me, that means I am getting stronger and more acceptance and
tolerance of others if I don't killfile or block them just becasue I don't
want or care what they have to say. I have learned a lot from people in here
that I had blocked on more than one occasion...LOL Hope you do the same.
Best,
Gail

[Gail]

I did not say she was doing anything wrong by staying sober. I got sober
with the help of other ways, too. Since she said she was working the steps,
I assumed she was using AA. I hope she sticks around and I know for sure she
will hear of the other ways, too. Please tell her..;)
Best,
Gail


Totfit wrote:
> Doesn't sound like she is doing anything wrong if she is staying
> sober. People get sober in many different ways. While I am a member
> of AA, most people do not use AA to get sober. Actually, though you
> do not know
> because one is involve with only other AA members and it "seems" the
> only way to get sober it is definitely not. There are other groups
> besides AA and many get sober without any group at all, some studies
> show the majority of alcoholics get sober on their own. Really the
> only 100% requirement for sobriety is not to drink, period. Like I
> stated, I
> am a member of AA, but I discount no one else's path.
>
> Gregg
>
> Gail wrote:
>
>> "catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>> news:bf9vmu$l5e$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>
>>> I apologise:
>>>
>>
>>
>> For What?
>>
>>
>>
>>> - for having managed to stay off booze for the past few weeks
>>> without
>>
>> having attended AA meetings;
>>
>> That is your choice completely. It does not affect me at all.
>>
>>
>>> - for the fact that my success appears to greatly irritate you,
>>
>>
>> No one here is irritated except you, hon. I have been where you are
>> and I know it appears that some are irritated with you, but not so.
>> You are posting in a group about alcoholism and recovery. There will
>> be things you hear or are told about you that you may have a hard
>> time accepting. I didn't want to hear what I was doing wrong. I am
>> glad I started listening to the suggestions and started taking a
>> good look at myself, not everyone else.
>>
>>
>> and finally
>>
>>> - for deciding to stick around and therefore to continue to further
>>
>> irritate you.
>>
>> I have a feeling that isn't the way it will work in this group..;)
>>
>>
>>> Now, I'm thanking you for your robust questioning of and comments on
>>
>> things I have said. I am happy
>>
>>> to admit that you, as well as others here, are: making me question
>>> my
>>
>> beliefs;
>>
>> That is good. My old beliefs kept me drunk. I had to change a lot of
>> my beliefs syetem in order to start recovering.
>>
>>
>> opening my eyes and
>>
>>> ears to many new ideas; and furthering my understanding of how
>>> alcoholism
>>
>> can be successfully
>>
>>> overcome. I'm very grateful for all these things. If me telling you
>>> that I
>>
>> consider you to be a good
>>
>>> influence on me makes you happy, then I , too, shall be happy.
>>
>>
>> Lastly, I don't base my happiness on anyone. I did that for years
>> and that kept me drunk, too. I had to learn how to be happy with and
>> love myself before I could be truly happy or love anything else.
>>
>>
>>> I hope you will continue to take an interest in my efforts to stay
>>> off
>>
>> booze.
>>
>> Hon, that is what we are here for. No one in here wants to harm or
>> hurt you. I wish for you all that has been given to me. Stick around
>> and even make some meetings. Are you afraid to go to a meeting or
>> have concerns about going? Maybe we can help. :)
>>
>>
>>> All the very best
>>>
>>> JB

[Moonraker]

"Totfit" <gregg_fowler@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2vudnUI0iqOfJ4WiXTWJhg@comcast.com...
> , most people do not use AA to get sober. (snip) > There are other groups
> besides AA and many get sober without any group at all, some studies
> show the majority of alcoholics get sober on their own. >
> Gregg
>
>
I'd like to see your "studies" showing the MAJORITY of alcoholics get sober
on their own. I have to call "bullshit" on that.


The "majority" of alcoholics never get sober AT ALL. Studies I've seen say
that fewer than 1 in 10, more like 1 in 12 or 13 alcoholics ever even make
an attempt to "do something" about their drinking. And out of that 7-8% of
the alcoholic population who seek recovery help, only 1 in 10 ever "makes
it".

If your statement that "most people do not use AA to get sober" were true,
how can you explain the fact that virtually all of the in-patient recovery
facilities have AA meetings on site or bus the "inmates" to a local meeting?
How can you explain that the DUI schools call AA for speakers? If AA were
as feckless as you seem to think, why would these recovery professionals be
relying on AA groups for support and aftercare?

As the PI-CPI rep at my home group, I get to talk to a lot of recovery
professionals. MD's, MSW's, Psychologists, and the like. They all know
that, despite all it's warts, AA is one of their best resources. I have
yet to run into a recovery professional who advised his/her patients not to
go to AA.

[pauly]

In news:b8dSa.2784$wv6.1649@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com,
Moonraker <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> typed:
> "Totfit" <gregg_fowler@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2vudnUI0iqOfJ4WiXTWJhg@comcast.com...
>> , most people do not use AA to get sober. (snip) > There are other
>> groups besides AA and many get sober without any group at all, some
>> studies
>> show the majority of alcoholics get sober on their own. >
>> Gregg
>>
>>
> I'd like to see your "studies" showing the MAJORITY of alcoholics get
> sober on their own. I have to call "bullshit" on that.
>
>
> The "majority" of alcoholics never get sober AT ALL. Studies I've
> seen say that fewer than 1 in 10, more like 1 in 12 or 13 alcoholics
> ever even make an attempt to "do something" about their drinking.
> And out of that 7-8% of the alcoholic population who seek recovery
> help, only 1 in 10 ever "makes it".
>
> If your statement that "most people do not use AA to get sober" were
> true, how can you explain the fact that virtually all of the
> in-patient recovery facilities have AA meetings on site or bus the
> "inmates" to a local meeting? How can you explain that the DUI
> schools call AA for speakers? If AA were as feckless as you seem to
> think, why would these recovery professionals be relying on AA
> groups for support and aftercare?
>
> As the PI-CPI rep at my home group, I get to talk to a lot of
> recovery professionals. MD's, MSW's, Psychologists, and the like.
> They all know that, despite all it's warts, AA is one of their best
> resources. I have yet to run into a recovery professional who
> advised his/her patients not to go to AA.

The official line taken by Manchester Health Authority, is to not recommend
AA as it is considered dated and dangerous. Not all follow this line of
course, but a good friend of mine who is a worker for the Manchester
Community Alcohol and Drug Team assures me that this is the official line.
The part they consider dangerous is the taking away the responsibility for
drinking away from the alcoholic, as it is too easy to use as an excuse to
start dinking again. I don't know what the rest of the UKs Health
authorities stances are but I would assume they are similar in outlook.

[Mias]

> The official line taken by Manchester Health Authority, is to not
recommend
> AA as it is considered dated and dangerous. Not all follow this line of
> course, but a good friend of mine who is a worker for the Manchester
> Community Alcohol and Drug Team assures me that this is the official line.
> The part they consider dangerous is the taking away the responsibility for
> drinking away from the alcoholic, as it is too easy to use as an excuse to
> start dinking again. I don't know what the rest of the UKs Health
> authorities stances are but I would assume they are similar in outlook.

Dear Pauly
With all due respect that sounds a lot like 'sex is dated and dangerous and
we thus recommend cloning...' I can tell you that sex is the best thing
since chewing gum and AA is the best thing since Paw fell off the water
cart.
Kind regards
Mias
14 years clean and sober with AA and enjoying every second!
"pauly" <me@me.com> wrote in message
news:f_NSa.6153$47.1718424@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
> In news:b8dSa.2784$wv6.1649@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com,
> Moonraker <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> typed:
> > "Totfit" <gregg_fowler@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:2vudnUI0iqOfJ4WiXTWJhg@comcast.com...
> >> , most people do not use AA to get sober. (snip) > There are other
> >> groups besides AA and many get sober without any group at all, some
> >> studies
> >> show the majority of alcoholics get sober on their own. >
> >> Gregg
> >>
> >>
> > I'd like to see your "studies" showing the MAJORITY of alcoholics get
> > sober on their own. I have to call "bullshit" on that.
> >
> >
> > The "majority" of alcoholics never get sober AT ALL. Studies I've
> > seen say that fewer than 1 in 10, more like 1 in 12 or 13 alcoholics
> > ever even make an attempt to "do something" about their drinking.
> > And out of that 7-8% of the alcoholic population who seek recovery
> > help, only 1 in 10 ever "makes it".
> >
> > If your statement that "most people do not use AA to get sober" were
> > true, how can you explain the fact that virtually all of the
> > in-patient recovery facilities have AA meetings on site or bus the
> > "inmates" to a local meeting? How can you explain that the DUI
> > schools call AA for speakers? If AA were as feckless as you seem to
> > think, why would these recovery professionals be relying on AA
> > groups for support and aftercare?
> >
> > As the PI-CPI rep at my home group, I get to talk to a lot of
> > recovery professionals. MD's, MSW's, Psychologists, and the like.
> > They all know that, despite all it's warts, AA is one of their best
> > resources. I have yet to run into a recovery professional who
> > advised his/her patients not to go to AA.
>
> The official line taken by Manchester Health Authority, is to not
recommend
> AA as it is considered dated and dangerous. Not all follow this line of
> course, but a good friend of mine who is a worker for the Manchester
> Community Alcohol and Drug Team assures me that this is the official line.
> The part they consider dangerous is the taking away the responsibility for
> drinking away from the alcoholic, as it is too easy to use as an excuse to
> start dinking again. I don't know what the rest of the UKs Health
> authorities stances are but I would assume they are similar in outlook.
>
>

[rosie readandpost]

..
> > The part they consider dangerous is the taking away the responsibility for
> > drinking away from the alcoholic, as it is too easy to use as an excuse to
> > start dinking again.


i hear this complaint over and over and it obviously is made by folks WHO DO NOT know anything about AA.

i was NEVER relieved of responsibility for my disease.
rosie

[rosie readandpost]

> Among many in AA there is often an inherent mistrust of doctors.
> Little surprise, considering all the damage the medical profession has
> done in the past 30+ years.


>
> What you say is kind of odd too, in that the lack of medical detox
> facilities is causing the Drug and Alcohol Service (at least in
> Dorset) to actually "prescribe" alcohol to alcoholics, to avoid the
> bad press of alcoholic fits.
>
> --
> Blue Moon

in a lot of the USA, things are handled much differently. i hear very few comments that would indicated lack of trust in
the medical profession.
(complaints about HMO/PPO but not the actual doctors)
i suppose that is due to lack of a NATIONAL health program.

certainly NOT perfect, but very doable.
rosie

[Gregg Fowler]

I hardly think your not hearing complaints about doctors is indicative of
not having a national health program. Not having a national health program
guarantees only that people with better insurance will get adequate health
care. As far as treatment for alcoholism goes, many folks with insurance,
but not the best are given a minimum detox and then being put back out, even
if they desire and require further treatment. Not having a national health
program keeps things as they have been, that is the richest country in the
world having people get inadequate care because they are only contributing
to the wealth of those above them, but don't have the assets to get good
insurance.

Gregg

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zqaTa.23356$7O4.502301@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> in a lot of the USA, things are handled much differently. i hear very few
comments that would indicated lack of trust in
> the medical profession.
> (complaints about HMO/PPO but not the actual doctors)
> i suppose that is due to lack of a NATIONAL health program.
>
> certainly NOT perfect, but very doable.
> rosie
>
>
>

[rosie readandpost]

gregg,
i don't disagree with you, about the state of our country, and its health care not being adequate or equal.
i don't see national health as the answer however.
YMMV

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

if past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians.
............................................. warren buffett



"Gregg Fowler" <gregg_fowler@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message news:96idnW4GpZTZGYCiXTWJiA@comcast.com...
> I hardly think your not hearing complaints about doctors is indicative of
> not having a national health program. Not having a national health program
> guarantees only that people with better insurance will get adequate health
> care. As far as treatment for alcoholism goes, many folks with insurance,
> but not the best are given a minimum detox and then being put back out, even
> if they desire and require further treatment. Not having a national health
> program keeps things as they have been, that is the richest country in the
> world having people get inadequate care because they are only contributing
> to the wealth of those above them, but don't have the assets to get good
> insurance.
>
> Gregg

[Cartman]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zqaTa.23356$7O4.502301@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...

SNIP

> i suppose that is due to lack of a NATIONAL health program.
> certainly NOT perfect, but very doable.
> rosie

And is [NATIONAL Health Program] very desirable for socialists and anti-free
market twits. My manager had about 5 years of dental work done in 6 months
while he was reassigned here in the U.S. from Coventry.....would have taken
YEARS to get the same treatment... Rosie, you must be one of those tax and
spend democrats.....Perhaps "rosie taxandspend".....

- Cartman

[rosie readandpost]

read the WHOLE post again cart................i am NOT a fan of national health.

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

if past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians.
............................................. warren buffett



"Cartman" <omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:HLadncXowPlsmIOiRTvUrg@speakeasy.net...
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:zqaTa.23356$7O4.502301@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> SNIP
>
> > i suppose that is due to lack of a NATIONAL health program.
> > certainly NOT perfect, but very doable.
> > rosie
>
> And is [NATIONAL Health Program] very desirable for socialists and anti-free
> market twits. My manager had about 5 years of dental work done in 6 months
> while he was reassigned here in the U.S. from Coventry.....would have taken
> YEARS to get the same treatment... Rosie, you must be one of those tax and
> spend democrats.....Perhaps "rosie taxandspend".....
>
> - Cartman
>
>

[Cartman]

I stand corrected

(but national healthcare still sucks)

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zCuTa.36672$6a3.640457@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> read the WHOLE post again cart................i am NOT a fan of national
health.
>
> --
> read and post daily, it works!
> rosie
>
> if past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be
librarians.
> ............................................ warren buffett
>
>
>
> "Cartman" <omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HLadncXowPlsmIOiRTvUrg@speakeasy.net...
> >
> > "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:zqaTa.23356$7O4.502301@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > SNIP
> >
> > > i suppose that is due to lack of a NATIONAL health program.
> > > certainly NOT perfect, but very doable.
> > > rosie
> >
> > And is [NATIONAL Health Program] very desirable for socialists and
anti-free
> > market twits. My manager had about 5 years of dental work done in 6
months
> > while he was reassigned here in the U.S. from Coventry.....would have
taken
> > YEARS to get the same treatment... Rosie, you must be one of those tax
and
> > spend democrats.....Perhaps "rosie taxandspend".....
> >
> > - Cartman
> >
> >
>
>

[rosie readandpost]

YOUR RIGHT!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

if past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians.
............................................. warren buffett



"Cartman" <omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:LdOdnRBKxfK41IKiRTvU2Q@speakeasy.net...
> I stand corrected
>
> (but national healthcare still sucks)
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:zCuTa.36672$6a3.640457@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > read the WHOLE post again cart................i am NOT a fan of national
> health.
> >
> > --
> > read and post daily, it works!
> > rosie
> >
> > if past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be
> librarians.
> > ............................................ warren buffett
> >
> >
> >
> > "Cartman" <omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:HLadncXowPlsmIOiRTvUrg@speakeasy.net...
> > >
> > > "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:zqaTa.23356$7O4.502301@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > >
> > > SNIP
> > >
> > > > i suppose that is due to lack of a NATIONAL health program.
> > > > certainly NOT perfect, but very doable.
> > > > rosie
> > >
> > > And is [NATIONAL Health Program] very desirable for socialists and
> anti-free
> > > market twits. My manager had about 5 years of dental work done in 6
> months
> > > while he was reassigned here in the U.S. from Coventry.....would have
> taken
> > > YEARS to get the same treatment... Rosie, you must be one of those tax
> and
> > > spend democrats.....Perhaps "rosie taxandspend".....
> > >
> > > - Cartman
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Michael Rapp]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:34:00 +0100, Jonathan Bratt <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:

>In message <LdOdnRBKxfK41IKiRTvU2Q@speakeasy.net>, Cartman
><omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> writes
>>but national healthcare still sucks)
>
>Well just a goddarn minute there.
>
>I have received excellent service. When I've had hospital admissions the
>treatment has been prompt and first class - and the fact that it was
>alcohol related mattered not a whit to anyone.
>
>When I went to see my GP on Monday, despite his schedule being full for
>a week I was taken straight in to see him 'cos of my history, and that
>is a standing instruction for the reception staff - the man has even
>given me his mobile number when he goes on holiday for emergencies!
>
>I called on Monday to a new dentist needing a check up and was
>registered, seen and treated in less than 24 hours - cost at point of
>delivery for all of the above - £0.00. And that included all the meds.
>
>So if that sucks - I'll take it - AND NO FUNNY COMMENTS PLEASE!!!
>--
>Jonathan Bratt
-------------------------
Jonathan, are you sure you guys are talking about the same country?
Mike.

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <3f206750.28066948@news.btx.dtag.de>, Michael Rapp
<m.rapp@t-online.de> writes
>On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:34:00 +0100, Jonathan Bratt <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>In message <LdOdnRBKxfK41IKiRTvU2Q@speakeasy.net>, Cartman
>><omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> writes
>>>but national healthcare still sucks)
>>
>>Well just a goddarn minute there.
>>
>>I have received excellent service. When I've had hospital admissions the
>>treatment has been prompt and first class - and the fact that it was
>>alcohol related mattered not a whit to anyone.
>>
>>When I went to see my GP on Monday, despite his schedule being full for
>>a week I was taken straight in to see him 'cos of my history, and that
>>is a standing instruction for the reception staff - the man has even
>>given me his mobile number when he goes on holiday for emergencies!
>>
>>I called on Monday to a new dentist needing a check up and was
>>registered, seen and treated in less than 24 hours - cost at point of
>>delivery for all of the above - £0.00. And that included all the meds.
>>
>>So if that sucks - I'll take it - AND NO FUNNY COMMENTS PLEASE!!!
>>--
>>Jonathan Bratt
>-------------------------
>Jonathan, are you sure you guys are talking about the same country?
>Mike.

I'm talking about the principle of national healthcare using my own
experiences in the UK as an example.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <iEZTa.13331$3I1.11625@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
<fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> writes
>
>> -------------------------
>> Jonathan, are you sure you guys are talking about the same country?
>> Mike.
>>
>Yeah. La-la land.

Well - I had noticed a resemblance between you and the teletubbies :-)

Seriously - what part of my post did you disagree with?


--
Jonathan Bratt

[rosie readandpost]

>
> I'm talking about the principle of national healthcare using my own
> experiences in the UK as an example.
> --
> Jonathan Bratt


i really don't think it would work very well in the USA, jonathan.
we here in the STATES could sure do a better job of insuring our poor, but removing individual choices would be a big
mistake!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

"In a few days they will show us another fat body with a beard and say it's Saddam."
ZOHAIR MATY, a 30-year-old Iraqi laborer, expressing skepticism that pictures of Saddam Hussein's sons' bodies were
authentic.






"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message news:sle0Kq2hxMI$Ewjs@aol.com...
> In message <3f206750.28066948@news.btx.dtag.de>, Michael Rapp
> <m.rapp@t-online.de> writes
> >On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:34:00 +0100, Jonathan Bratt <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >>In message <LdOdnRBKxfK41IKiRTvU2Q@speakeasy.net>, Cartman
> >><omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> writes
> >>>but national healthcare still sucks)
> >>
> >>Well just a goddarn minute there.
> >>
> >>I have received excellent service. When I've had hospital admissions the
> >>treatment has been prompt and first class - and the fact that it was
> >>alcohol related mattered not a whit to anyone.
> >>
> >>When I went to see my GP on Monday, despite his schedule being full for
> >>a week I was taken straight in to see him 'cos of my history, and that
> >>is a standing instruction for the reception staff - the man has even
> >>given me his mobile number when he goes on holiday for emergencies!
> >>
> >>I called on Monday to a new dentist needing a check up and was
> >>registered, seen and treated in less than 24 hours - cost at point of
> >>delivery for all of the above - £0.00. And that included all the meds.
> >>
> >>So if that sucks - I'll take it - AND NO FUNNY COMMENTS PLEASE!!!
> >>--
> >>Jonathan Bratt
> >-------------------------
> >Jonathan, are you sure you guys are talking about the same country?
> >Mike.
>
> I'm talking about the principle of national healthcare using my own
> experiences in the UK as an example.
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

[rosie readandpost]

> By the medical profession? It isn't today either, is it? What
> official medical journal lists "alcoholism" under its diseases?
>
> --
> Blue Moo


the MOST important medical resource......................DSM-IV

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:52:32 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>> "We have never called alcoholism a disease because, technically speaking, it
>> is not a disease entity ... " Bill Wilson NCCA p20. Reference from "Not-God"
>> p22

>60+ yrs ago, alcoholism was not CONSIDERED a disease.....................keep up, bob, keep up!
>:)

By the medical profession? It isn't today either, is it? What
official medical journal lists "alcoholism" under its diseases?

--
Blue Moon

[rosie readandpost]

> I don't hear complaints about specific doctors either. But certainly
> valium survivors, prozac survivors, paxil survivors etc. are in full
> swing in the US also.
>
>

oh, it sure is!
yes, there are plenty of doctors out there who will improperly prescribe, ask any addict!
:)

imo, NOT the majority!

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:50:39 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>i hear very few comments that would indicated lack of trust in
>the medical profession.

I'm wondering to what extent your acquaintances have had their real
opinions suppressed by fear of your reaction. Of course, you'd not
get to know about that, so it's impossible to say - you'd just see the
results of it.

>(complaints about HMO/PPO but not the actual doctors)

I don't hear complaints about specific doctors either. But certainly
valium survivors, prozac survivors, paxil survivors etc. are in full
swing in the US also.

>i suppose that is due to lack of a NATIONAL health program.

The lack of a national health service isn't something I'd want to
boast about. Just now I'm wondering where all the US medical tax goes
from people's pay packets if it's not funding an adequate medical
service.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:32:58 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>> I'm talking about the principle of national healthcare using my own
>> experiences in the UK as an example.
>
>i really don't think it would work very well in the USA, jonathan.
>we here in the STATES could sure do a better job of insuring our poor, but removing individual choices would be a big
>mistake!

When it comes to health care, the UK doesn't remove any choice.
Private insurance is still available for those who can afford it, or
whose companies pay for it as a job perk. All the best physicians
seem to end up private anyway because there's so much more money to be
had, thus leaving a short-fall of decent medics in the National Health
Service.

--
Blue Moon

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:xLiUa.51926$6a3.853372@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > I don't hear complaints about specific doctors either. But certainly
> > valium survivors, prozac survivors, paxil survivors etc. are in full
> > swing in the US also.
> >
> >
>
> oh, it sure is!
> yes, there are plenty of doctors out there who will improperly prescribe,
ask any addict!
> :)
>
> imo, NOT the majority!

Given what yourself posted, I doubt you have any trouble at all finding
scripts to feed your own addiction.

"rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:<ZPSl5.19140$E05.340458@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>


>i am thinking about asking my pdoc to increase my celexa to
>60mg..........anyone else in here have good results with that dosage?
>my 40mg seems to be "pooping out"...........

[Shawster]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:58ab2fd272b145f65303d590ba078d1a@free.teranew s.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:09:55 -0500, "rosie readandpost"
> <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> By the medical profession? It isn't today either, is it? What
> >> official medical journal lists "alcoholism" under its diseases?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Blue Moo
> >
> >the MOST important medical resource......................DSM-IV
>
> Have you checked it lately? Where does DSM-IV list alcoholism under
> its diseases?

I dunno, probably axis three, but I'll check monday.

>
> --
> Blue Moon
>

[Moonraker]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bfsv70$i93kt$1@ID-49289.news.uni-
>
> Given what yourself posted, I doubt you have any trouble at all finding
> scripts to feed your own addiction.
>
If you'd care to believe RRAP...she claims her husband is a MD. Those Rx
pads can't be TOO hard to find.

[rosie readandpost]

i did not know that , thanks!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

Little things affect little minds.
.....................Benjamin Disraeli



"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:e0641c3f1fd7ad30427221aa9c8e7787@free.teranew s.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:32:58 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
> <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> I'm talking about the principle of national healthcare using my own
> >> experiences in the UK as an example.
> >
> >i really don't think it would work very well in the USA, jonathan.
> >we here in the STATES could sure do a better job of insuring our poor, but removing individual choices would be a
big
> >mistake!
>
> When it comes to health care, the UK doesn't remove any choice.
> Private insurance is still available for those who can afford it, or
> whose companies pay for it as a job perk. All the best physicians
> seem to end up private anyway because there's so much more money to be
> had, thus leaving a short-fall of decent medics in the National Health
> Service.
>
> --
> Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:10:46 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>then check HCFA or ICD-9
>(sorry its been a while since i've done the billing)

Would you mind just answering the question?

--
Blue Moon

[rosie readandpost]

you wanted to know if the medical community considers alcoholism a disease?
they sure do, and its billable!

does that answer it for you?

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

Little things affect little minds.
.....................Benjamin Disraeli



"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ef5e5aa6b240a2cd5224828392cf3eaa@free.teranew s.com...
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:10:46 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
> <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >then check HCFA or ICD-9
> >(sorry its been a while since i've done the billing)
>
> Would you mind just answering the question?
>
> --
> Blue Moon

[Moonraker]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:EJGUa.53587$6a3.966740@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> you wanted to know if the medical community considers alcoholism a
disease?
> they sure do, and its billable!
>
Good. Put it on my tab, then.

[rosie readandpost]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:FDGUa.6053$IE6.2133@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com.. .
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:EJGUa.53587$6a3.966740@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > you wanted to know if the medical community considers alcoholism a
> disease?
> > they sure do, and its billable!
> >
> Good. Put it on my tab, then.


WHAT??????????????????????/
no argument?
i think i am going to faint!

THUD

[Blue Moon]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 21:29:02 -0500, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>you wanted to know if the medical community considers alcoholism a disease?
>they sure do, and its billable!
>
>does that answer it for you?

Rosie, you said alcoholism is classified today as a disease by the
medical profession. To that, I responded:

> By the medical profession? It isn't today either, is it? What
> official medical journal lists "alcoholism" under its diseases?

To which you replied:

> the MOST important medical resource......................DSM-IV

However, you were apparently incapable of supporting that assertion,
hence you resort to claiming that medics bill for alcoholism therefore
it must be classified as a disease. So is all billing done in
accordance with definitions within DSM-IV, or is the most convenient
wording simply put onto invoicing systems?

--
Blue Moon

[pauly]

"Cartman" <omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HLadncXowPlsmIOiRTvUrg@speakeasy.net...
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:zqaTa.23356$7O4.502301@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> SNIP
>
> > i suppose that is due to lack of a NATIONAL health program.
> > certainly NOT perfect, but very doable.
> > rosie
>
> And is [NATIONAL Health Program] very desirable for socialists and
anti-free
> market twits. My manager had about 5 years of dental work done in 6 months
> while he was reassigned here in the U.S. from Coventry.....would have
taken
> YEARS to get the same treatment... Rosie, you must be one of those tax and
> spend democrats.....Perhaps "rosie taxandspend".....
>
> - Cartman
>
At least if he was poor he would have had the work done here in the UK for
free, and if not exactly well off, there would be a cap on the cost of
treatment. Why should any medical treatment be denied to anyone. Our NHS is
by no means perfect, but I'd rather have that than none at all, and I really
don't mind paying my taxes for it either. I never know If I will be out of
work again. As someone whose working life must have been affected
detrimentally by alcohol abuse why would you want to deny anyone free
medical treatment?

[rosie readandpost]

> So is all billing done in
> accordance with definitions within DSM-IV, or is the most convenient
> wording simply put onto invoicing systems?
>
> --
> Blue Moon

actually, i also added a couple other sources.
keep up, will ya'?