Sobriety is not recovery

[Alcocure]

Lifelong sobriety is not recovery from alcoholism, as Alcoholics
Anonymous claims. It's just a damage limitation exercise.

Pursuing lifelong sobriety is not a sign of recovery from alcoholism,
as Alcoholics Anonymous claims. Staying away from booze one day at a
time is treating the symptom instead of the fundamental underlying
problem, and merely a damage limitation exercise.

(PRWEB) October 12, 2004 -- Pursuing lifelong sobriety is not a sign
of recovery from alcoholism, as Alcoholics Anonymous claims. Staying
away from booze one day at a time is treating the symptom instead of
the fundamental underlying problem, and merely a damage limitation
exercise.

So say former alcoholics Lilian and Murdoch MacDonald from Ayrshire in
Scotland. They argue that alcoholism is not an incurable and
progressive illness or disease, as Alcoholics Anonymous would have us
believe, but rather a self-harming behaviour problem with its roots in
childhood.

Lilian says: "If an alcoholic is willing to identify and thoroughly
address these issues from the past, then there is no reason why he or
she should not be able to consciously change their previously
problematic behaviour patterns, even to the extent of being able to
drink responsibly and safely again in a perfectly normal and sociable
manner. We know that this is possible, because we have done it
ourselves. So have many other former alcoholics who have contacted us
from all over the world through our website
www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com

"Being able to drink responsibly again is important in itself for an
alcoholic, because it's not pleasant to be socially excluded for any
reason. But being able to drink normally and safely again is even more
important because it is the outward and visible sign that an alcoholic
has resolved his or her problems and is truly well again.

"Nobody is incapable of changing their behaviour. And that is one of
the fundamental differences between Alcoholics Anonymous and us. AA
disempowers people – the first of the Twelve Steps says: "We admitted
we were powerless over alcohol" – but we are fighting to give
alcoholics that power back."

Ten years ago the Lilian and Murdoch MacDonald had hit rock bottom,
sleeping rough for two weeks on the streets of Cambridge, where a
quarter of a century previously as an undergraduate Murdoch had
received an honours degree in English Literature. They had moved there
from Ayr with the idea of Murdoch doing research for a doctorate
(PhD), but reverted to their old habits, started binge drinking, and
were thrown out of their lodgings.

After a fortnight, and when they were just about at the end of their
tether, two nurses on their way home after a Saturday night out took
pity on Lilian and Murdoch, bought them a cup of tea and found them a
place in a homeless hostel.

The couple spent the next twelve months there getting to the roots of
their alcoholism. They tried AA one last time, before concluding that
it was a quasi-religious cult whose ideas on alcoholism were
inadequate and outdated.

Instead, by reading psychology, they decided that the causes of their
alcoholic behaviour lay in problems experienced during childhood. And
that once these problems were realised and addressed, there was no
longer any need for escape through alcoholism, and they could even
drink normally like other people again.

Ten years after selling newspapers from a stand in Market Square,
Cambridge, so that he and Lilian could get back on their feet
financially, Murdoch now writes his own regular column in the local
weekly paper and also runs his own public relations consultancy.

And Lilian is so keen to pass on the benefits of their experience to
others who still have problems with alcohol, that the couple are
building a website www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com to spread
their message of hope.

They also have a community group website at
http://groups.msn.com/AlcoholicsCanDrinkSafelyAgain which includes a
chat room and message board where members can exchange thoughts, ideas
and experiences.

Lilian and Murdoch have completed the first draft of a book about
their experiences, and are currently looking for a suitable publisher.

Lilian and Murdoch MacDonald's web links:

Main website:

http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com

Community websites

http://groups.msn.com/Alcoholicsdontneedtostayonthewagon

http://groups.msn.com/AlcoholicsCanDrinkSafelyAgain

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlcoholicsCanDrinkSafelyAgain/

Other links

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/10/prweb166719.htm

http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com/newpage17.html

http://groups.msn.com/AlcoholicsCanDrinkSafelyAgain/sobrietyisnotrecovery.msnw

http://www.openpress.com/index.php?a=press&id=1993

http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com/newpage15.html

http://www.pressbox.co.uk/Detailed/17770.html

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/6/prweb130243.htm

http://www.pressbox.co.uk/Detailed/15000.html

http://www.pr-scotland.com/releases/040409-02.htm

http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com/newpage4.html

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/7/prweb144035.htm

http://www.pr-scotland.com/releases/040726-01.htm

http://www.pressbox.co.uk/Detailed/16150.html

http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com/newpage0.html

Issued by:

Fame Publicity Services
10 Miller Road
AYR, Ayrshire
Scotland KA7 2AY

Telephone: +44 (0)1292 281498

Website: www.famepublicity.co.uk

E-mail: e-mail protected from spam bots

[ByTor]

In article <39516dcd.0410120422.57ef7b4a@posting.google.com>,
alcocure@aol.com, Alcocure says...

> Lifelong sobriety is not recovery from alcoholism, as Alcoholics
> Anonymous claims. It's just a damage limitation exercise.

Annnnnnnnnnd your point is???????????????

[Dan McGown]

Therefore, it stands to reason that pursuing lifelong avoidance of heroin is
not a sign of recovery from heroin addiction, as Narcotics Anonymous claims.
By the same reasoning, staying away from heroin one day at a time is
treating the symptom instead of the fundamental underlying problem, and
merely a damage limitation exercise.

Hey, you know what? Sometimes damage limitation is the real goal.

[Dan McGown]

By the way, you might consider the phrase: "Primum non nocere."

[Dan McGown]

If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end: If you look for
comfort you will not get either comfort or truth - only soft soap and
wishful thinking to begin with and, in the end, despair.

C. S. Lewis

[Clint g]

Half measures avail us nothing.

[[[]]]

C.O.D. ?


-Steve

[Mias]

I do not quite know how to explain this to you Alcocure, but you do not have
the faintest idea what you are talking about. That your basis for posting,
in the manner that you do, is money / power / study motivated is easy to see
but how you can do it here is unforgivable and remains a mystery. I
pesonally can only conclude that you are a non-alcoholic counselor,
counselling alcoholics for reward or booksales, and that your profits have
been dropping lately. It is clear that you do not have the slighest insight
into the problem of alcoholism and that some of the things you propagate is
outright dangerous to recovering alcoholics. It would make me sad if you
were yourself an alcoholic. I doubt that however because you never mention
yourself in any of your posts. The regularity and your ignoring of other
posts points to a planned marketing operation on your side. Now, from
experience I can promise you that, IF YOU are an alcoholic your chances to
have a serious relapse and perhaps die, is good. If you are not an alcoholic
you are buying shares in a place called hell. As you soweth so you reapeth
remains true in any philosophy. It is universal.
If you had ever known the desperate, suicidal anxiety of recovering from yet
another countless failure to try and drink 'normally', that I have gone
through in my drinking life and, according to what I am told, millions of
other alcoholics you would not have such a soulless, mindless attitude
towards advising alcoholics that 'they can drink again'. You would not tell
the diabetic that they can eat chocalates again would you? (UNless it did
not contain sugar)
It is very difficult when you are dodging the central issue. What is your
basis for posting here. Are you an alcoholic?
"Alcocure" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote in message
news:39516dcd.0410120422.57ef7b4a@posting.google.c om...
> Lifelong sobriety is not recovery from alcoholism, as Alcoholics
> Anonymous claims. It's just a damage limitation exercise.
>
> Pursuing lifelong sobriety is not a sign of recovery from alcoholism,
> as Alcoholics Anonymous claims. Staying away from booze one day at a
> time is treating the symptom instead of the fundamental underlying
> problem, and merely a damage limitation exercise.
>
> (PRWEB) October 12, 2004 -- Pursuing lifelong sobriety is not a sign
> of recovery from alcoholism, as Alcoholics Anonymous claims. Staying
> away from booze one day at a time is treating the symptom instead of
> the fundamental underlying problem, and merely a damage limitation
> exercise.
>
> So say former alcoholics Lilian and Murdoch MacDonald from Ayrshire in
> Scotland. They argue that alcoholism is not an incurable and
> progressive illness or disease, as Alcoholics Anonymous would have us
> believe, but rather a self-harming behaviour problem with its roots in
> childhood.
>
> Lilian says: "If an alcoholic is willing to identify and thoroughly
> address these issues from the past, then there is no reason why he or
> she should not be able to consciously change their previously
> problematic behaviour patterns, even to the extent of being able to
> drink responsibly and safely again in a perfectly normal and sociable
> manner. We know that this is possible, because we have done it
> ourselves. So have many other former alcoholics who have contacted us
> from all over the world through our website
> www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com
>
> "Being able to drink responsibly again is important in itself for an
> alcoholic, because it's not pleasant to be socially excluded for any
> reason. But being able to drink normally and safely again is even more
> important because it is the outward and visible sign that an alcoholic
> has resolved his or her problems and is truly well again.
>
> "Nobody is incapable of changing their behaviour. And that is one of
> the fundamental differences between Alcoholics Anonymous and us. AA
> disempowers people - the first of the Twelve Steps says: "We admitted
> we were powerless over alcohol" - but we are fighting to give
> alcoholics that power back."
>
> Ten years ago the Lilian and Murdoch MacDonald had hit rock bottom,
> sleeping rough for two weeks on the streets of Cambridge, where a
> quarter of a century previously as an undergraduate Murdoch had
> received an honours degree in English Literature. They had moved there
> from Ayr with the idea of Murdoch doing research for a doctorate
> (PhD), but reverted to their old habits, started binge drinking, and
> were thrown out of their lodgings.
>
> After a fortnight, and when they were just about at the end of their
> tether, two nurses on their way home after a Saturday night out took
> pity on Lilian and Murdoch, bought them a cup of tea and found them a
> place in a homeless hostel.
>
> The couple spent the next twelve months there getting to the roots of
> their alcoholism. They tried AA one last time, before concluding that
> it was a quasi-religious cult whose ideas on alcoholism were
> inadequate and outdated.
>
> Instead, by reading psychology, they decided that the causes of their
> alcoholic behaviour lay in problems experienced during childhood. And
> that once these problems were realised and addressed, there was no
> longer any need for escape through alcoholism, and they could even
> drink normally like other people again.
>
> Ten years after selling newspapers from a stand in Market Square,
> Cambridge, so that he and Lilian could get back on their feet
> financially, Murdoch now writes his own regular column in the local
> weekly paper and also runs his own public relations consultancy.
>
> And Lilian is so keen to pass on the benefits of their experience to
> others who still have problems with alcohol, that the couple are
> building a website www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com to spread
> their message of hope.
>
> They also have a community group website at
> http://groups.msn.com/AlcoholicsCanDrinkSafelyAgain which includes a
> chat room and message board where members can exchange thoughts, ideas
> and experiences.
>
> Lilian and Murdoch have completed the first draft of a book about
> their experiences, and are currently looking for a suitable publisher.
>
> Lilian and Murdoch MacDonald's web links:
>
> Main website:
>
> http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com
>
> Community websites
>
> http://groups.msn.com/Alcoholicsdontneedtostayonthewagon
>
> http://groups.msn.com/AlcoholicsCanDrinkSafelyAgain
>
> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlcoholicsCanDrinkSafelyAgain/
>
> Other links
>
> http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/10/prweb166719.htm
>
> http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com/newpage17.html
>
> http://groups.msn.com/AlcoholicsCanDrinkSafelyAgain/sobrietyisnotrecovery.msnw
>
> http://www.openpress.com/index.php?a=press&id=1993
>
> http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com/newpage15.html
>
> http://www.pressbox.co.uk/Detailed/17770.html
>
> http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/6/prweb130243.htm
>
> http://www.pressbox.co.uk/Detailed/15000.html
>
> http://www.pr-scotland.com/releases/040409-02.htm
>
> http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com/newpage4.html
>
> http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/7/prweb144035.htm
>
> http://www.pr-scotland.com/releases/040726-01.htm
>
> http://www.pressbox.co.uk/Detailed/16150.html
>
> http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com/newpage0.html
>
> Issued by:
>
> Fame Publicity Services
> 10 Miller Road
> AYR, Ayrshire
> Scotland KA7 2AY
>
> Telephone: +44 (0)1292 281498
>
> Website: www.famepublicity.co.uk
>
> E-mail: e-mail protected from spam bots

[ByTor]

In article <cki806$3b7$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>,
emiasno@spamnetactive.co.za, Mias says...

> It is very difficult when you are dodging the central issue. What is your
> basis for posting here. Are you an alcoholic?

No..........A goofy goofball troll looking for someone to feed in to the
nonsense......Don't even waste your energy in typing a reply. ;0)