Alcoholism and Creativity

[Thomas Curmudgeon]

Someone suggested I get this book when it comes out, and after reading
the description, I decided to order one to be sent when it's available.
It reminded me of Kay Redfield Jamison's "Touched with Fire", linking
creativity (the artistic temperament) and bipolar disorder.

I can't figure out if it will be a positive thing, or negative, for AA
people, or within the AA perspective.

It doesn't seem to glamorize drinking, or excess drinking, but it seems
to speak of creative people who used drinking for whatever reason.

Of course the book's not out yet and I've not read it, so I can't give a
conclusive opinion, but I have a feeling that when I get the book I'll
still be unsure.

Perhaps people who are creative might tend to drink?

Any opinions, given what we know now about it? Or any opinions on a link
between creativity and drinking, or people who might tend to drink?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1580421458/qid=1097505900/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-4799697-6226356?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

A Drinking Companion: Alcohol and Writers' Lives
by Kelly Boler

Editorial Reviews
Book Description
In an effort to cut back on his drinking, F. Scott's Fitzgerald briefly
limited himself to only one glass of beer--thirty times a day. Dashiell
Hammett drank himself into a writer's block that lasted thirty years,
and John Cheever conquered a decade-long addiction to create his
greatest novel. Malcolm Lowry would drink anything from gin to
formaldehyde, while housewife/poet Anne Sexton always traveled with a
thermos full of martinis. In her book "Drinking Companion: Alcohol and
the Lives of Writers", Kelly Boler looks at the many different ways that
liquor ran through the lives and works of fifteen great writers. Told
from varying vantage points--fame and obscurity, glamour and despair,
suicide and recovery, shame and bravado --these stories shed an
important light on the role that alcohol played in the real lives of our
most creative artists.

[gary]

Hey
I'm realy creative whist drinking, many things come to my mind &
inspiration to do things that soberly i wouldn't do. Films i haven't watched
in ages, books i haven't looked at in ages, music i haven't listened to in
ages, & as i'm a cook, i get recipe inspiration & find myself experimenting
culinary!
Wether i'd sacrifice this for the temporary memory loss & inability to
remember stuff, this is another question!
Gaz
Thomas Curmudgeon <eat@spam.yum> wrote in message
news:4iAad.56873$a85.41494@fed1read04...
> Someone suggested I get this book when it comes out, and after reading
> the description, I decided to order one to be sent when it's available.
> It reminded me of Kay Redfield Jamison's "Touched with Fire", linking
> creativity (the artistic temperament) and bipolar disorder.
>
> I can't figure out if it will be a positive thing, or negative, for AA
> people, or within the AA perspective.
>
> It doesn't seem to glamorize drinking, or excess drinking, but it seems
> to speak of creative people who used drinking for whatever reason.
>
> Of course the book's not out yet and I've not read it, so I can't give a
> conclusive opinion, but I have a feeling that when I get the book I'll
> still be unsure.
>
> Perhaps people who are creative might tend to drink?
>
> Any opinions, given what we know now about it? Or any opinions on a link
> between creativity and drinking, or people who might tend to drink?
>
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1580421458/qid=1097505900/sr=8
-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-4799697-6226356?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
>
> A Drinking Companion: Alcohol and Writers' Lives
> by Kelly Boler
>
> Editorial Reviews
> Book Description
> In an effort to cut back on his drinking, F. Scott's Fitzgerald briefly
> limited himself to only one glass of beer--thirty times a day. Dashiell
> Hammett drank himself into a writer's block that lasted thirty years,
> and John Cheever conquered a decade-long addiction to create his
> greatest novel. Malcolm Lowry would drink anything from gin to
> formaldehyde, while housewife/poet Anne Sexton always traveled with a
> thermos full of martinis. In her book "Drinking Companion: Alcohol and
> the Lives of Writers", Kelly Boler looks at the many different ways that
> liquor ran through the lives and works of fifteen great writers. Told
> from varying vantage points--fame and obscurity, glamour and despair,
> suicide and recovery, shame and bravado --these stories shed an
> important light on the role that alcohol played in the real lives of our
> most creative artists.

[Fred Exley]

"Thomas Curmudgeon" <eat@spam.yum> wrote in message
news:4iAad.56873$a85.41494@fed1read04...
> Someone suggested I get this book when it comes out, and after reading the
> description, I decided to order one to be sent when it's available. It
> reminded me of Kay Redfield Jamison's "Touched with Fire", linking
> creativity (the artistic temperament) and bipolar disorder.
>
> I can't figure out if it will be a positive thing, or negative, for AA
> people, or within the AA perspective.
>
> It doesn't seem to glamorize drinking, or excess drinking, but it seems to
> speak of creative people who used drinking for whatever reason.
>
> Of course the book's not out yet and I've not read it, so I can't give a
> conclusive opinion, but I have a feeling that when I get the book I'll
> still be unsure.
>
> Perhaps people who are creative might tend to drink?
>
> Any opinions, given what we know now about it? Or any opinions on a link
> between creativity and drinking, or people who might tend to drink?
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1580421458/qid=1097505900/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-4799697-6226356?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
>
> A Drinking Companion: Alcohol and Writers' Lives
> by Kelly Boler
>
> Editorial Reviews
> Book Description
> In an effort to cut back on his drinking, F. Scott's Fitzgerald briefly
> limited himself to only one glass of beer--thirty times a day. Dashiell
> Hammett drank himself into a writer's block that lasted thirty years, and
> John Cheever conquered a decade-long addiction to create his greatest
> novel. Malcolm Lowry would drink anything from gin to formaldehyde, while
> housewife/poet Anne Sexton always traveled with a thermos full of
> martinis. In her book "Drinking Companion: Alcohol and the Lives of
> Writers", Kelly Boler looks at the many different ways that liquor ran
> through the lives and works of fifteen great writers. Told from varying
> vantage points--fame and obscurity, glamour and despair, suicide and
> recovery, shame and bravado --these stories shed an important light on the
> role that alcohol played in the real lives of our most creative artists.

Sounds like a good read. I've read that when Hemmingway was in Paris
hanging with with Fitzgerald and Gertrude Stein, they stoked each other's
creativity by sharing what each wrote. But also, while many wanna-be
writers were hanging around the cafe's drinking and talking about writing,
Hemmingway was upstairs alone actually doing some writing. If you find out
if he was sober or smashed whilst upstairs, please let us know. And some
say Edgar Allan Poe really died of rabies, not alcoholism, and did his best
writing before becoming an alcoholic, but I dunno about that either.

I imagine myself to be way more creative when almost, but not quite,
smashed. True or not (and probably it's not), I have no desire to find out.

-Fred

"Write drunk, edit sober". -Mark Twain

[Mias]

Hi Thomas
One night, about twenty five years ago, another man and I was discussing
world affairs in a pub. Reagan had some world-threathening crisis at that
stage. We two worked out a solution that was brilliant and would save the
world. Three o clock that morning I crawled into bed resolved to contact the
American embassy later that day. I have never in my life felt so central to
man's existence and wellbeing as at that moment. Up to this day I can
however not remember what that solution was. Even worse, I could not for the
life of me, remember what the PROBLEM was!
Alcoholic creativity sucks!
Regards
Mias
"Thomas Curmudgeon" <eat@spam.yum> wrote in message
news:4iAad.56873$a85.41494@fed1read04...
> Someone suggested I get this book when it comes out, and after reading the
> description, I decided to order one to be sent when it's available. It
> reminded me of Kay Redfield Jamison's "Touched with Fire", linking
> creativity (the artistic temperament) and bipolar disorder.
>
> I can't figure out if it will be a positive thing, or negative, for AA
> people, or within the AA perspective.
>
> It doesn't seem to glamorize drinking, or excess drinking, but it seems to
> speak of creative people who used drinking for whatever reason.
>
> Of course the book's not out yet and I've not read it, so I can't give a
> conclusive opinion, but I have a feeling that when I get the book I'll
> still be unsure.
>
> Perhaps people who are creative might tend to drink?
>
> Any opinions, given what we know now about it? Or any opinions on a link
> between creativity and drinking, or people who might tend to drink?
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1580421458/qid=1097505900/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-4799697-6226356?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
>
> A Drinking Companion: Alcohol and Writers' Lives
> by Kelly Boler
>
> Editorial Reviews
> Book Description
> In an effort to cut back on his drinking, F. Scott's Fitzgerald briefly
> limited himself to only one glass of beer--thirty times a day. Dashiell
> Hammett drank himself into a writer's block that lasted thirty years, and
> John Cheever conquered a decade-long addiction to create his greatest
> novel. Malcolm Lowry would drink anything from gin to formaldehyde, while
> housewife/poet Anne Sexton always traveled with a thermos full of
> martinis. In her book "Drinking Companion: Alcohol and the Lives of
> Writers", Kelly Boler looks at the many different ways that liquor ran
> through the lives and works of fifteen great writers. Told from varying
> vantage points--fame and obscurity, glamour and despair, suicide and
> recovery, shame and bravado --these stories shed an important light on the
> role that alcohol played in the real lives of our most creative artists.

[Fred Exley]

"Mias" <emiasno@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
news:ckiap3$5un$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> Hi Thomas
> One night, about twenty five years ago, another man and I was discussing
> world affairs in a pub. Reagan had some world-threathening crisis at that
> stage. We two worked out a solution that was brilliant and would save the
> world. Three o clock that morning I crawled into bed resolved to contact
> the American embassy later that day. I have never in my life felt so
> central to man's existence and wellbeing as at that moment. Up to this day
> I can however not remember what that solution was. Even worse, I could not
> for the life of me, remember what the PROBLEM was!
> Alcoholic creativity sucks!
> Regards
> Mias

I often had brilliant ideas late at night, but never remembered them in the
morning. Not wanting the world to miss out on these gems of wisdom, I
started writing down the thoughts before passing out. Next morning, the
notes somehow had turned to incomprehensible scribble.

[Thomas Curmudgeon]

Fred Exley wrote:
> "Thomas Curmudgeon" <eat@spam.yum> wrote in message
> news:4iAad.56873$a85.41494@fed1read04...
>
>>Someone suggested I get this book when it comes out, and after reading the
>>description, I decided to order one to be sent when it's available. It
>>reminded me of Kay Redfield Jamison's "Touched with Fire", linking
>>creativity (the artistic temperament) and bipolar disorder.
>>
>>I can't figure out if it will be a positive thing, or negative, for AA
>>people, or within the AA perspective.
>>
>>It doesn't seem to glamorize drinking, or excess drinking, but it seems to
>>speak of creative people who used drinking for whatever reason.
>>
>>Of course the book's not out yet and I've not read it, so I can't give a
>>conclusive opinion, but I have a feeling that when I get the book I'll
>>still be unsure.
>>
>>Perhaps people who are creative might tend to drink?
>>
>>Any opinions, given what we know now about it? Or any opinions on a link
>>between creativity and drinking, or people who might tend to drink?
>>
>>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1580421458/qid=1097505900/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-4799697-6226356?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
>>
>>A Drinking Companion: Alcohol and Writers' Lives
>>by Kelly Boler
>>
>>Editorial Reviews
>>Book Description
>>In an effort to cut back on his drinking, F. Scott's Fitzgerald briefly
>>limited himself to only one glass of beer--thirty times a day. Dashiell
>>Hammett drank himself into a writer's block that lasted thirty years, and
>>John Cheever conquered a decade-long addiction to create his greatest
>>novel. Malcolm Lowry would drink anything from gin to formaldehyde, while
>>housewife/poet Anne Sexton always traveled with a thermos full of
>>martinis. In her book "Drinking Companion: Alcohol and the Lives of
>>Writers", Kelly Boler looks at the many different ways that liquor ran
>>through the lives and works of fifteen great writers. Told from varying
>>vantage points--fame and obscurity, glamour and despair, suicide and
>>recovery, shame and bravado --these stories shed an important light on the
>>role that alcohol played in the real lives of our most creative artists.
>
>
> Sounds like a good read. I've read that when Hemmingway was in Paris
> hanging with with Fitzgerald and Gertrude Stein, they stoked each other's
> creativity by sharing what each wrote. But also, while many wanna-be
> writers were hanging around the cafe's drinking and talking about writing,
> Hemmingway was upstairs alone actually doing some writing. If you find out
> if he was sober or smashed whilst upstairs, please let us know. And some
> say Edgar Allan Poe really died of rabies, not alcoholism, and did his best
> writing before becoming an alcoholic, but I dunno about that either.
>
> I imagine myself to be way more creative when almost, but not quite,
> smashed. True or not (and probably it's not), I have no desire to find out.
>
> -Fred
>
> "Write drunk, edit sober". -Mark Twain
>

I remember watching a documentary on Hollywood, where a writer was given
an impossible task to re-write some screen play. He told the studio to
make a car available to him, because he'd be drunk for the three days it
took to do the assignment. So some DO perceive there to be some degree
of increased creativity in drinking.

That's not really the connection I was trying to make, and you're adding
evidence that the concept of drunken writers is overblown. The boozers
were downstairs yacking, and the writer was upstairs actually writing.

But that alcoholics (today's version as well, ie sober) might have some
sort of creative edge. Much like the "artistic temperament" that Jamison
tied to bipolar, and I assume there's a crossover between alcoholism and
mental disorders. As you said, Poe may not have died or alcoholism, nor
madness, but at times he certainly was drunk, and others he was insane
beyond description. I don't know, maybe I'm grasping at straws.

I'll get the book soon and see what they're talking about.

[Fred Exley]

"Thomas Curmudgeon" <eat@spam.yum> wrote in message
news:Sdbbd.72474$a85.44758@fed1read04...
> Fred Exley wrote:
>> "Thomas Curmudgeon" <eat@spam.yum> wrote in message
>> news:4iAad.56873$a85.41494@fed1read04...
>>
>>>Someone suggested I get this book when it comes out, and after reading
>>>the description, I decided to order one to be sent when it's available.
>>>It reminded me of Kay Redfield Jamison's "Touched with Fire", linking
>>>creativity (the artistic temperament) and bipolar disorder.
>>>
>>>I can't figure out if it will be a positive thing, or negative, for AA
>>>people, or within the AA perspective.
>>>
>>>It doesn't seem to glamorize drinking, or excess drinking, but it seems
>>>to speak of creative people who used drinking for whatever reason.
>>>
>>>Of course the book's not out yet and I've not read it, so I can't give a
>>>conclusive opinion, but I have a feeling that when I get the book I'll
>>>still be unsure.
>>>
>>>Perhaps people who are creative might tend to drink?
>>>
>>>Any opinions, given what we know now about it? Or any opinions on a link
>>>between creativity and drinking, or people who might tend to drink?
>>>
>>>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1580421458/qid=1097505900/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-4799697-6226356?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
>>>
>>>A Drinking Companion: Alcohol and Writers' Lives
>>>by Kelly Boler
>>>
>>>Editorial Reviews
>>>Book Description
>>>In an effort to cut back on his drinking, F. Scott's Fitzgerald briefly
>>>limited himself to only one glass of beer--thirty times a day. Dashiell
>>>Hammett drank himself into a writer's block that lasted thirty years, and
>>>John Cheever conquered a decade-long addiction to create his greatest
>>>novel. Malcolm Lowry would drink anything from gin to formaldehyde, while
>>>housewife/poet Anne Sexton always traveled with a thermos full of
>>>martinis. In her book "Drinking Companion: Alcohol and the Lives of
>>>Writers", Kelly Boler looks at the many different ways that liquor ran
>>>through the lives and works of fifteen great writers. Told from varying
>>>vantage points--fame and obscurity, glamour and despair, suicide and
>>>recovery, shame and bravado --these stories shed an important light on
>>>the role that alcohol played in the real lives of our most creative
>>>artists.
>>
>>
>> Sounds like a good read. I've read that when Hemmingway was in Paris
>> hanging with with Fitzgerald and Gertrude Stein, they stoked each other's
>> creativity by sharing what each wrote. But also, while many wanna-be
>> writers were hanging around the cafe's drinking and talking about
>> writing, Hemmingway was upstairs alone actually doing some writing. If
>> you find out if he was sober or smashed whilst upstairs, please let us
>> know. And some say Edgar Allan Poe really died of rabies, not
>> alcoholism, and did his best writing before becoming an alcoholic, but I
>> dunno about that either.
>>
>> I imagine myself to be way more creative when almost, but not quite,
>> smashed. True or not (and probably it's not), I have no desire to find
>> out.
>>
>> -Fred
>>
>> "Write drunk, edit sober". -Mark Twain
>
> I remember watching a documentary on Hollywood, where a writer was given
> an impossible task to re-write some screen play. He told the studio to
> make a car available to him, because he'd be drunk for the three days it
> took to do the assignment. So some DO perceive there to be some degree of
> increased creativity in drinking.
>
> That's not really the connection I was trying to make, and you're adding
> evidence that the concept of drunken writers is overblown. The boozers
> were downstairs yacking, and the writer was upstairs actually writing.
>
> But that alcoholics (today's version as well, ie sober) might have some
> sort of creative edge. Much like the "artistic temperament" that Jamison
> tied to bipolar, and I assume there's a crossover between alcoholism and
> mental disorders. As you said, Poe may not have died or alcoholism, nor
> madness, but at times he certainly was drunk, and others he was insane
> beyond description. I don't know, maybe I'm grasping at straws.
>
> I'll get the book soon and see what they're talking about.

I doubt the human mind can ever know the human mind, so we're all grasping
at straws on this topic. But there certainly is a fine line between genius
and insanity, and let's not forget idiot-savants, at one end genius and at
the other too dumb to be insane.

I tend to read most every book anybody recommends here, so might read yours
after finishing 'Beyond The Influence'. On page 12 we learn that Jack
London first got drunk at age five, drank heavily his entire life, and
here's what he said about what he got from alcohol:

"...I had caught a myriad enticing and inflammatory hints of a world beyond
my world.... I had got behind men's souls. I had got behind my own soul and
found unguessed potencies and greatnesses...."

Apparently it worked for him until he died at age forty of kidney failure.

-Fred

[Mias]

Yuk!
"Fred Exley" <fexly221@msn.com> wrote in message
news:10mperqduuambfd@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Mias" <emiasno@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
> news:ckiap3$5un$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>> Hi Thomas
>> One night, about twenty five years ago, another man and I was discussing
>> world affairs in a pub. Reagan had some world-threathening crisis at that
>> stage. We two worked out a solution that was brilliant and would save the
>> world. Three o clock that morning I crawled into bed resolved to contact
>> the American embassy later that day. I have never in my life felt so
>> central to man's existence and wellbeing as at that moment. Up to this
>> day I can however not remember what that solution was. Even worse, I
>> could not for the life of me, remember what the PROBLEM was!
>> Alcoholic creativity sucks!
>> Regards
>> Mias
>
> I often had brilliant ideas late at night, but never remembered them in
> the morning. Not wanting the world to miss out on these gems of wisdom, I
> started writing down the thoughts before passing out. Next morning, the
> notes somehow had turned to incomprehensible scribble.
>

[Bobby L]

"Thomas Curmudgeon" <eat@spam.yum> wrote in message
news:4iAad.56873$a85.41494@fed1read04...
> Someone suggested I get this book when it comes out, and after reading
> the description, I decided to order one to be sent when it's available.
> It reminded me of Kay Redfield Jamison's "Touched with Fire", linking
> creativity (the artistic temperament) and bipolar disorder.
>
> I can't figure out if it will be a positive thing, or negative, for AA
> people, or within the AA perspective.
>
> It doesn't seem to glamorize drinking, or excess drinking, but it seems
> to speak of creative people who used drinking for whatever reason.
>
> Of course the book's not out yet and I've not read it, so I can't give a
> conclusive opinion, but I have a feeling that when I get the book I'll
> still be unsure.
>
> Perhaps people who are creative might tend to drink?
>
> Any opinions, given what we know now about it? Or any opinions on a link
> between creativity and drinking, or people who might tend to drink?
>
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1580421458/qid=1097505900/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-4799697-6226356?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
>
> A Drinking Companion: Alcohol and Writers' Lives
> by Kelly Boler
>
> Editorial Reviews
> Book Description
> In an effort to cut back on his drinking, F. Scott's Fitzgerald briefly
> limited himself to only one glass of beer--thirty times a day. Dashiell
> Hammett drank himself into a writer's block that lasted thirty years,
> and John Cheever conquered a decade-long addiction to create his
> greatest novel. Malcolm Lowry would drink anything from gin to
> formaldehyde, while housewife/poet Anne Sexton always traveled with a
> thermos full of martinis. In her book "Drinking Companion: Alcohol and
> the Lives of Writers", Kelly Boler looks at the many different ways that
> liquor ran through the lives and works of fifteen great writers. Told
> from varying vantage points--fame and obscurity, glamour and despair,
> suicide and recovery, shame and bravado --these stories shed an
> important light on the role that alcohol played in the real lives of our
> most creative artists.


My experience is that generally full blown alcoholics are mostly full of
their own shit. It's quite easy to find folks to buy our crap. There are
so many people our there that although we cannot dazzle them with our
brilliance, we can baffle them with our bullshit.

Bobby L

[rosie readandpost]

: My experience is that generally full blown alcoholics are mostly
full of
: their own shit. It's quite easy to find folks to buy our crap.
There are
: so many people our there that although we cannot dazzle them with
our
: brilliance, we can baffle them with our bullshit.
:
: Bobby L
:
:

your experience is shared by many!
;)

[anon]

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:22:02 -0700, Fred Exley <fexly221@msn.com> wrote:

>> Hi Thomas
>> One night, about twenty five years ago, another man and I was discussing
>> world affairs in a pub. Reagan had some world-threathening crisis at that
>> stage. We two worked out a solution that was brilliant and would save the
>> world. Three o clock that morning I crawled into bed resolved to contact
>> the American embassy later that day. I have never in my life felt so
>> central to man's existence and wellbeing as at that moment. Up to this day
>> I can however not remember what that solution was. Even worse, I could not
>> for the life of me, remember what the PROBLEM was!
>> Alcoholic creativity sucks!
>> Regards
>> Mias
>
> I often had brilliant ideas late at night, but never remembered them in the
> morning. Not wanting the world to miss out on these gems of wisdom, I
> started writing down the thoughts before passing out. Next morning, the
> notes somehow had turned to incomprehensible scribble.

LOL, in my case, even the notes turn out to have been a delusion. IMO,
the only aid of alcohol to creativity is that it lowers your
inhibitions. But that doesn't mean you become smarter.

[Fred Exley]

"anon" <anon@anonn.com> wrote in message
news:2trultF237sssU1@uni-berlin.de...

>> I often had brilliant ideas late at night, but never remembered them in
>> the
>> morning. Not wanting the world to miss out on these gems of wisdom, I
>> started writing down the thoughts before passing out. Next morning, the
>> notes somehow had turned to incomprehensible scribble.
>
> LOL, in my case, even the notes turn out to have been a delusion. IMO,
> the only aid of alcohol to creativity is that it lowers your
> inhibitions. But that doesn't mean you become smarter.

Speaking of delusions, the most chilling thing I've read is from "A New Pair
Of Glasses", where the author came across a drunk who was joking around with
his friend, laughing about things, they were having a hell of a time. But
the thing was, there was nobody else there with that guy.

-Fred