Just wanted to say hello!

[ByTor]

Hi all.......Recently subscribed to the group and just wanted to
introduce myself and say hello.

I'm an alcoholic & drug addict.
Been clean/sober for 13 years.

Later!

[rosie readandpost]

hello and welcome!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

never let yesterday use up too much of today.
...........................anonymous



"ByTor" <ByTor@snowdog.com> wrote in message news:2qDRa.23666$351.7823605@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
> Hi all.......Recently subscribed to the group and just wanted to
> introduce myself and say hello.
>
> I'm an alcoholic & drug addict.
> Been clean/sober for 13 years.
>
> Later!

[Gail]

"ByTor" <ByTor@snowdog.com> wrote in message
news:2qDRa.23666$351.7823605@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
> Hi all.......Recently subscribed to the group and just wanted to
> introduce myself and say hello.
>
> I'm an alcoholic & drug addict.
> Been clean/sober for 13 years.
>
> Later!

Welcome Later! ;)
Gail

[Bpyboy]

welcome aboard!

Many good/wise folks here. they helped me out in some of my darkest hours.

I was good with the drugs and booze myself. (and am taking steps not to go
back there--man don't know if I can get off that crap again!)

the cool thing is that a lot of the folks live over across the pond in england,
and so when it's like way too early in the morning here, they are sitting and
having a "spot of tea" there, and so you get responses at all sorts of crazy
times (locally). That's one really cool thing about this group, especially
when you can't sleep and feel weak.

Did I mention that there are a lot of good/wise folks here?
later
john

[rosie readandpost]

>"................ the cool thing is that a lot of the folks live over across the pond in england,
> and so when it's like way too early in the morning here, they are sitting and
> having a "spot of tea" there................"

there are a few aussies from DOWN UNDER here too!

[ByTor]

In article <HEDRa.15621$6a3.211464@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com says... while attaching C4 explosives
to computer and foaming at the mouth!

> hello and welcome!



Thank You............

[ByTor]

In article <vhemaesv4gvb3b@corp.supernews.com>, leonard_gail@charter.net
says... while attaching C4 explosives to computer and foaming at the
mouth!


> > Later!
>
> Welcome Later! ;)
> Gail


Thank You Gail........

[ByTor]

In article <20030718092129.02307.00000148@mb-m21.aol.com>,
bpyboy@aol.com says... while attaching C4 explosives to computer and
foaming at the mouth!

> welcome aboard!
>
> Many good/wise folks here. they helped me out in some of my darkest hours.
>
> I was good with the drugs and booze myself. (and am taking steps not to go
> back there--man don't know if I can get off that crap again!)
>
> the cool thing is that a lot of the folks live over across the pond in england,
> and so when it's like way too early in the morning here, they are sitting and
> having a "spot of tea" there, and so you get responses at all sorts of crazy
> times (locally). That's one really cool thing about this group, especially
> when you can't sleep and feel weak.
>
> Did I mention that there are a lot of good/wise folks here?
> later
> john
>

Thanks for the welcome........Yes, this is a 24hr business. :0)

[Moonraker]

"catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:bfbpia$ckj$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> 13 years without drinking or taking drugs ? That's fantastic. I hope
you're prepared to share the
> secrets of your success.

Why would you even care? If ByTor were to share his "secrets", you'd likely
discount them as moralizing or preaching. You haven't chosen to accept the
"secrets of success" given you by anybody else, why start now?

> Looking forward to further posts.

Sure you are. Must be running out of shoulders to cry on?
>
> JB
>

[catsruleok]

"ByTor" <ByTor@snowdog.com> wrote in message news:2qDRa.23666$351.7823605@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
> Hi all.......Recently subscribed to the group and just wanted to
> introduce myself and say hello.
>
> I'm an alcoholic & drug addict.
> Been clean/sober for 13 years.
>
> Later!

Hi there,

Welcome aboard.

13 years without drinking or taking drugs ? That's fantastic. I hope you're prepared to share the
secrets of your success.

Looking forward to further posts.

JB

[rosie readandpost]

> "catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

> > Looking forward to further posts.



"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

> Sure you are. Must be running out of shoulders to cry on?
>


HEY!
moon, why go there?
talk about yourself...............hows your day going so far?

[ByTor]

In article <bfbpia$ckj$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, catsruleok@bigfoot.com
says... while attaching C4 explosives to computer and foaming at the
mouth!

> Hi there,
>
> Welcome aboard.
>
> 13 years without drinking or taking drugs ? That's fantastic. I hope you're prepared to share the
> secrets of your success.
>
> Looking forward to further posts.
>
> JB

Hello JB.....Thanks for the welcome.

Secrets? Have none whatsoever..... :0)

It took me 5yrs to make the decision to "stay" stopped (was sober the
whole time though). Hated the idea of not being able to use, fought
tooth & nail everyone in the fellowship.
Today, things are very different. Making the decision to stay stopped
was my biggest challenge, after that everything else just seemed to fall
in place.
I do not claim to have any great words of wisdom, nor am I a preacher, I
just take everything as it comes and treat it with the respect it should
be given.

I have read all your posts since I subscribed to the group and
personally I think you are well on your way to a promising road ahead.
Excuse the french but, If I did not let all my SHIT hang out in the
beginning I would not be here today enjoying what I have.

Thanks again for the welcome.............. :0>

[Moonraker]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:yZeSa.27675> HEY!
> moon, why go there?
> talk about yourself...............hows your day going so far?
>
>
Maybe, Rosie, because after myself, Shawster, BlueMoon, Gail, Stuart, BobbyL
and a few more painstakingly told JB the exact same thing and she still
chooses to "shoot the messenger" and whine. Maybe Rosie wants to continue
to listen to the blubbering and whining and "thinking"? Personally, my
patience is wearing real thin.

And I've had a really shitty week. On Monday, my former mother in law died.
On Thursday, my current father in law died. And, Wednesday, one of my
friends from my home group with 20+ years of sobriety was found dead in his
apartment by his sponsor, of an apparent heart attack. Know what? Didn't
even think about a drink. Thanks for asking.

[Shawster]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:9QfSa.2623$g9.2112@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:yZeSa.27675> HEY!
> > moon, why go there?
> > talk about yourself...............hows your day going so far?
> >
> >
> Maybe, Rosie, because after myself, Shawster, BlueMoon, Gail, Stuart,
BobbyL
> and a few more painstakingly told JB the exact same thing and she still
> chooses to "shoot the messenger" and whine. Maybe Rosie wants to continue
> to listen to the blubbering and whining and "thinking"? Personally, my
> patience is wearing real thin.
>
> And I've had a really shitty week. On Monday, my former mother in law
died.
> On Thursday, my current father in law died. And, Wednesday, one of my
> friends from my home group with 20+ years of sobriety was found dead in
his
> apartment by his sponsor, of an apparent heart attack. Know what?
Didn't
> even think about a drink. Thanks for asking.
>

Moon I am sorry for you losses, and I will keep you in my prayers tonight
that you will find comfort and strength.

Shaw


>
>
>

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <OXdSa.3060$wv6.2505@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
<fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> writes
>
>"catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>news:bfbpia$ckj$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>
>> 13 years without drinking or taking drugs ? That's fantastic. I hope
>you're prepared to share the
>> secrets of your success.
>
>Why would you even care? If ByTor were to share his "secrets", you'd likely
>discount them as moralizing or preaching. You haven't chosen to accept the
>"secrets of success" given you by anybody else, why start now?
>
>> Looking forward to further posts.
>
>Sure you are. Must be running out of shoulders to cry on?

Why don't you go buy a nice bottle of scotch, curl up in a corner and
take your crap out on someone who cares instead of trying to cause
damage to people who are vulnerable?

You world view and advice are clearly without value. You have a hell of
a lot of work to do on yourself before you are fit to start handing out
anything to anyone.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <yZeSa.27675$6a3.345311@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, rosie
readandpost <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> writes
> > "catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>
>> > Looking forward to further posts.
>
>
>
>"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>
> > Sure you are. Must be running out of shoulders to cry on?
>>
>
>
>HEY!
>moon, why go there?
>talk about yourself...............hows your day going so far?
>
>
Maybe he's been hanging around kindergarten playgrounds?
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Gail]

Shawster wrote:
> "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:9QfSa.2623$g9.2112@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
>>
>> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
>> message news:yZeSa.27675> HEY!
>>> moon, why go there?
>>> talk about yourself...............hows your day going so far?
>>>
>>>
>> Maybe, Rosie, because after myself, Shawster, BlueMoon, Gail,
>> Stuart, BobbyL and a few more painstakingly told JB the exact same
>> thing and she still chooses to "shoot the messenger" and whine.
>> Maybe Rosie wants to continue to listen to the blubbering and
>> whining and "thinking"? Personally, my patience is wearing real
>> thin.
>>
>> And I've had a really shitty week. On Monday, my former mother in
>> law died. On Thursday, my current father in law died. And,
>> Wednesday, one of my friends from my home group with 20+ years of
>> sobriety was found dead in his apartment by his sponsor, of an
>> apparent heart attack. Know what? Didn't even think about a drink.
>> Thanks for asking.
>>
>
> Moon I am sorry for you losses, and I will keep you in my prayers
> tonight that you will find comfort and strength.
>
> Shaw

I am sorry for you loss, Moon. What I look at is that you didn't have to
pick up a drink to cope with all that. So, I would say that you are working
a good program and know what to do when tramatic things happen in your life.
Some in here might want to consider that before they start judging and
calling names. Are they sober and do they know how to cope without alcohol
or drugs for more than a day or two? Thanks for sharing what you have been
through this past week and glad you didn't choose to pick up a drink or drug
to cope! ;)
Best,
Gail

[Moonraker]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:yA3jT0F9YlG$Ewjp@aol.com...
> >
> Maybe he's been hanging around kindergarten playgrounds?
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

Got Aids Yet, fagboy?

[rosie readandpost]

> What I look at is that you didn't have to
> pick up a drink to cope with all that.

gail,
always look for the folks who DON'T DRINK when it involved the LITTLE things in life.

though many of us over the years used the drama of deaths, births, divorce, etc as an excuse to drink, in recovery, it
becomes very obvious, that it is the LITTLE things that encourage a return to drinking.
(hurt feelings, lost baggage, stubbed toe)

> Some in here might want to consider that before they start judging and
> calling names.

gail,
are you reading ALL the posts?
it is MOON who is calling names, doing it unprompted, and doing it constantly!
(look at his posts to jonathan, they are disgusting )

[Moonraker]

"Gail" <leonard_gail@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vhl1h4p89c0p52@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I am sorry for you loss, Moon. What I look at is that you didn't have to
> pick up a drink to cope with all that. So, I would say that you are
working
> a good program and know what to do when tramatic things happen in your
life.

Thanks, Gail. "We will intuitively know how to handle things that used to
baffle us" is part of the 9th step "promises" that have come true for me.


> Some in here might want to consider that before they start judging and
> calling names.

If you are referring to a certain bi-polar, atheist who thinks his asshole
is meant to be a sex organ, you are right. Like with that track record
anybody'd take him seriously, anyway.


Thanks for sharing what you have been
> through this past week and glad you didn't choose to pick up a drink or
drug
> to cope! ;)
> Best,
> Gail
>
>

;>)

[Moonraker]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3QriXjFMYlG$Ewi0@aol.com...
>
> Why don't you go buy a nice bottle of scotch, curl up in a corner and
> take your crap out on someone who cares instead of trying to cause
> damage to people who are vulnerable?
>
> You world view and advice are clearly without value. You have a hell of
> a lot of work to do on yourself before you are fit to start handing out
> anything to anyone.
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

All this from a bi-polar atheist who thinks his asshole is for recreational
use. Critical thinking at it's best.

[rosie readandpost]

> If you are referring to a certain bi-polar, atheist who thinks his asshole
> is meant to be a sex organ, you are right. Like with that track record
> anybody'd take him seriously, anyway.
>
>

moon,
don't you see how wrong this kind of post is?
what step is it that encourages homophobia and hatred?
PLEASE stop!

[rosie readandpost]

"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:C6xSa.5386$g9.4638@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
>
> All this from a bi-polar atheist who thinks his asshole is for recreational
> use. Critical thinking at it's best.
>
>
>
>
>

moon,
your attitude and replies to folks in here DO sound like your drunk.
what's going on?
can we help?

[Gail]

rosie readandpost wrote:
>> What I look at is that you didn't have to
>> pick up a drink to cope with all that.
>
> gail,
> always look for the folks who DON'T DRINK when it involved the LITTLE
> things in life.
>
> though many of us over the years used the drama of deaths, births,
> divorce, etc as an excuse to drink, in recovery, it becomes very
> obvious, that it is the LITTLE things that encourage a return to
> drinking. (hurt feelings, lost baggage, stubbed toe)
>
>> Some in here might want to consider that before they start judging
>> and
>> calling names.
>
> gail,
> are you reading ALL the posts?
> it is MOON who is calling names, doing it unprompted, and doing it
> constantly! (look at his posts to jonathan, they are disgusting )

To be honest, I wasn't in here for three weeks or longer and I don't know
who is saying what. Appeared there were some accusations from both the
parties and a few more people that I have seen since I got back on and
before I left. I deleted all the threads that had been post while I was
away. So, I see that nothing or no one has really made much progress in
those past three weeks or so. If they are not in this group telling me they
want to get, want to know how to or are sober, then I *suggest* they shut
the Fuck up. Love it or leave it!

[Shawster]

"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:hFwSa.27431$647.6164@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com. ..
>
> "Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:yA3jT0F9YlG$Ewjp@aol.com...
> > >
> > Maybe he's been hanging around kindergarten playgrounds?
> > --
> > Jonathan Bratt
>
> Got Aids Yet, fagboy?

Moon, could you bring the tone down a bit please.
>
>
>
>

[rosie readandpost]

> > gail,
> > are you reading ALL the posts?
> > it is MOON who is calling names, doing it unprompted, and doing it
> > constantly! (look at his posts to jonathan, they are disgusting )
>

"Gail" <leonard_gail@charter.net> wrote in message
> To be honest, I wasn't in here for three weeks or longer and I don't know
> who is saying what.

moon, has been absolutely nasty to jonathan!

[Moonraker]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:D2ySa.41253$k85.1626251@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
>
> "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:hFwSa.27431$647.6164@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com. ..
> >
> > "Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:yA3jT0F9YlG$Ewjp@aol.com...
> > > >
> > > Maybe he's been hanging around kindergarten playgrounds?
> > > --
> > > Jonathan Bratt
> >
> > Got Aids Yet, fagboy?
>
> Moon, could you bring the tone down a bit please.

The group's resident pervert can make a totally insulting comment toward me
and you ignore it and chose to ask ME to tone it down? Huh.


> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Moonraker]

"Gail" <leonard_gail@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vhlb64dubsvg21@corp.supernews.com...
> If they are not in this group telling me they
> want to get, want to know how to or are sober, then I *suggest* they shut
> the Fuck up. Love it or leave it!
>
>
Thank you.

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <vhlb64dubsvg21@corp.supernews.com>, Gail
<leonard_gail@charter.net> writes
>To be honest, I wasn't in here for three weeks or longer and I don't
>know who is saying what.

He insinuated I wanted to have sex with children merely because I am
gay.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <sXwSa.5382$g9.4513@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
<moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
>If you are referring to a certain bi-polar, atheist who thinks his
>asshole is meant to be a sex organ, you are right. Like with that
>track record anybody'd take him seriously, anyway.

Whereas you merely talk out of yours. What my sexuality has to do with
sobriety or bi-polar I do not know. And do you still think I have sex
with children?

--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <hFwSa.27431$647.6164@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
<moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
>
>"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:yA3jT0F9YlG$Ewjp@aol.com...
>> >
>> Maybe he's been hanging around kindergarten playgrounds?
>> --
>> Jonathan Bratt
>
>Got Aids Yet, fagboy?

Nope - been tasted and am negative - maybe you should be worried - got
it from your wife/sister/dog?
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <2lzSa.5478$g9.1991@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
<moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
>
>"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:D2ySa.41253$k85.1626251@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
>>
>> "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:hFwSa.27431$647.6164@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com. ..
>> >
>> > "Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
>> > news:yA3jT0F9YlG$Ewjp@aol.com...
>> > > >
>> > > Maybe he's been hanging around kindergarten playgrounds?
>> > > --
>> > > Jonathan Bratt
>> >
>> > Got Aids Yet, fagboy?
>>
>> Moon, could you bring the tone down a bit please.
>
>The group's resident pervert can make a totally insulting comment toward me
>and you ignore it and chose to ask ME to tone it down? Huh.

You are the one who insinuated I wanted to have sex with children. Since
you brought it up I think it says more about you than it does about me.

I have never made sexual references to anyone till you started hurling
insults at me.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <C6xSa.5386$g9.4638@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
<moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
>
>"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:3QriXjFMYlG$Ewi0@aol.com...
>>
>> Why don't you go buy a nice bottle of scotch, curl up in a corner and
>> take your crap out on someone who cares instead of trying to cause
>> damage to people who are vulnerable?
>>
>> You world view and advice are clearly without value. You have a hell of
>> a lot of work to do on yourself before you are fit to start handing out
>> anything to anyone.
>> --
>> Jonathan Bratt
>
>All this from a bi-polar atheist who thinks his asshole is for recreational
>use. Critical thinking at it's best.

You wouldn't recognise critical thinking if it bit you.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Moonraker]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:$PgQgVdhdsG$EwSJ@aol.com...
> In message <vhlb64dubsvg21@corp.supernews.com>, Gail
> <leonard_gail@charter.net> writes
> >To be honest, I wasn't in here for three weeks or longer and I don't
> >know who is saying what.
>
> He insinuated I wanted to have sex with children merely because I am
> gay.
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

The Kinsey survey found than 37 percent of homosexual men and 2 percent of
lesbians admitted sexual
relations with children under 17 years old. Twenty-eight percent of
homosexual men and 1 percent of lesbians admitted sexual relations with
children under 16 years olds while they were age 18 or older. The Gay Report
reported that 23 percent of homosexuals and 6 percent of lesbians admitted
to sexual interaction with under 16-year olds.

Approximately one-third of child molestation reports involve homosexuality.
The Kinsey study reported that 4 percent of the
non-criminal white gays and 7 percent of the non-criminal white lesbians
reported that they had their first homosexual experience with a "teacher or
other caretaker."

[catsruleok]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:_rASa.28854$647.23316@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com ...
>
> "Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:$PgQgVdhdsG$EwSJ@aol.com...
> > In message <vhlb64dubsvg21@corp.supernews.com>, Gail
> > <leonard_gail@charter.net> writes
> > >To be honest, I wasn't in here for three weeks or longer and I don't
> > >know who is saying what.
> >
> > He insinuated I wanted to have sex with children merely because I am
> > gay.
> > --
> > Jonathan Bratt
>
<snip Moonraker's ref to the Kinsey Report>

Dear Moonraker,

In the past, you've asked us to restrict discussions of off-topic subjects. For everyone's sake, I
hope that you can agree with Johnathan that now would be a good time to stop posting about the
irrelevant to this NG subject of homosexuality.

With fingers crossed for good sense to prevail.

JB

[Michael Rapp]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 13:51:24 -0400, "Moonraker"
<fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote:
<snip>
>
>Approximately one-third of child molestation reports involve homosexuality.
<snip>

Although myself not a member of the gay community, I find this
percentage shocking.
It reads that the other two- thirds of child molesters are
heterosexual.
My interpretation of your stats are that gays are only human, too. No
more, but definitely no less.
And I really think that this our world has definitely greater problems
at hand than the so- called gay "problem", which raises another
question to me: how many of the trigger- happy warlords of this world
are heterosexual?
So, live an let live, okay?
Michael.

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <_rASa.28854$647.23316@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
<fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> writes
>
>"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:$PgQgVdhdsG$EwSJ@aol.com...
>> In message <vhlb64dubsvg21@corp.supernews.com>, Gail
>> <leonard_gail@charter.net> writes
>> >To be honest, I wasn't in here for three weeks or longer and I don't
>> >know who is saying what.
>>
>> He insinuated I wanted to have sex with children merely because I am
>> gay.
>> --
>> Jonathan Bratt
>
>The Kinsey survey found than 37 percent of homosexual men and 2 percent of
>lesbians admitted sexual

Firstly Kinsey has been thoroughly discredited.

Secondly - since even using this discredited report would indicate that
the majority of gay men do not have any sexual activities with children
- what do you think that I do? What have I ever posted that makes you
think so? If nothing - why did you see fir to make the insinuation -
what was your purpose.

--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <bfemdm$euk$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, catsruleok
<catsruleok@bigfoot.com> writes

>For everyone's sake, I
>hope that you can agree with Johnathan that now would be a good time to
>stop posting about the
>irrelevant to this NG subject of homosexuality.

It is not even that - he insinuated I was a paedophile - this is
arguably slander, certainly inaccurate, and most definitely insulting.

A retraction and apology will suffice, and I will not raise the subject
again, as I have not raised it in the past.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Cartman]

Wow Michael....what a statesman you are. When will you be visiting the
worthless U.N. to advise them on promptly replacing every head of state with
homosexuals?......following your "logic", we'll have world peace in no time!

- Cartman

P.S. I know my comments are off alc-topic but, just as great ideas demand
recognition, so do profoundly stupid statements.

"Michael Rapp" <m.rapp@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3f1ae63b.27324059@news.btx.dtag.de...
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 13:51:24 -0400, "Moonraker"
> <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> <snip>
> >
> >Approximately one-third of child molestation reports involve
homosexuality.
> <snip>
>
> Although myself not a member of the gay community, I find this
> percentage shocking.
> It reads that the other two- thirds of child molesters are
> heterosexual.
> My interpretation of your stats are that gays are only human, too. No
> more, but definitely no less.
> And I really think that this our world has definitely greater problems
> at hand than the so- called gay "problem", which raises another
> question to me: how many of the trigger- happy warlords of this world
> are heterosexual?
> So, live an let live, okay?
> Michael.
>

[rosie readandpost]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message news:RPFbwsu0NwG$EwWB@aol.com...
> In message <Nqadne6ELZlZZoeiRTvUqw@speakeasy.net>, Cartman
> <omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> writes
> >Wow Michael....what a statesman you are. When will you be visiting the
> >worthless U.N. to advise them on promptly replacing every head of state with
> >homosexuals?
>
> Fewer wars and *much* better clothes sense.
>


:)

[debs]

couldn't agree more Rosie. My brother, who is gay, has been following this
discussion with me........His reaction........."if that is what sobriety
does for you....bring on the Vodka"

debs

--
A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention in
human history, with the possible exception of handguns and tequila.
"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:usxSa.16438$7O4.366624@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > If you are referring to a certain bi-polar, atheist who thinks his
asshole
> > is meant to be a sex organ, you are right. Like with that track
record
> > anybody'd take him seriously, anyway.
> >
> >
>
> moon,
> don't you see how wrong this kind of post is?
> what step is it that encourages homophobia and hatred?
> PLEASE stop!
>
>

[Moonraker]

"Michael Rapp" <m.rapp@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3f1ae63b.27324059@news.btx.dtag.de...
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 13:51:24 -0400, "Moonraker"
> <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> <snip>
> >
> >Approximately one-third of child molestation reports involve
homosexuality.
> <snip>
>
> Although myself not a member of the gay community, I find this
> percentage shocking.
> It reads that the other two- thirds of child molesters are
> heterosexual.

What it says is that 1/3 of molestations are man on boy or woman on girl.
It says nothing about the adult's other activities.

[My Name]

m.rapp@t-online.de (Michael Rapp) wrote in
news:3f1ae63b.27324059@news.btx.dtag.de:

> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 13:51:24 -0400, "Moonraker"
><fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote:
><snip>
>>
>>Approximately one-third of child molestation reports
>>involve homosexuality.
><snip>
>
> Although myself not a member of the gay community, I find
> this percentage shocking.
> It reads that the other two- thirds of child molesters are
> heterosexual.

What you are overlooking is that heteros are in the majority.
Using stats from homosexuals of 10:1, and using stats by
heterosexuals of 100:1, or 2.

Either way the percentage of assaults commited by homosexuals
(as opposed to the 1/3 - 2/3 proportion of total assaults)
is greater than the percentage of assaults commited by
heterosexuals. As as little as 1 or 2 to 10 percent of the total
population is commiting 33% of the assaults. Whereas, 98, or 99%
of the population is commiting the other 66%. So the ratio of
assaults is greater amongst the homosexual population. All
assaults are wrong.

Please note, I am not singling anyone out for blame, or
exonerating anyone. Just pointing out the facts, and I really
didn't even want to do that, but as Moonraker didn't, and people
were mis-interpreting the 1/3s 2/3s thing...

--
You know that some people are different.
Now ain't that a crying shame.
Wouldn't it be a real drag, if we were all the same.
Savoy Brown

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <Xns93BEB70D8320BMyIdToken@walks.like.a.duck>, My Name
<no@e-mail.com> writes
>Please note, I am not singling anyone out for blame, or exonerating
>anyone. Just pointing out the facts, and I really didn't even want to
>do that, but as Moonraker didn't, and people were mis-interpreting the
>1/3s 2/3s thing...

Kinsey is widely discredited. There are NO recent studies that indicate
that child abused is statistically more significant among homosexuals
than heterosexuals.

Kinsey also stated around 1/3 or men were gay too - so according to his
study it is in proportion anyway.

Whatever the stats, I still want to know what his purpose was in
insinuating that *I* would abuse children.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Moonraker]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:DypP$zhGouG$EwW8@aol.com...
> In message <_rASa.28854$647.23316@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
> >
> >The Kinsey survey found than 37 percent of homosexual men and 2 percent
of
> >lesbians admitted sexual
>
> Firstly Kinsey has been thoroughly discredited.

By the Rainbow coalition, no doubt.

>
> Secondly - since even using this discredited report would indicate that
> the majority of gay men do not have any sexual activities with children

Apparently, two out of every 5 DO, however. I assume you would agree that
1 in 1,000,000 would be too many?


> - what do you think that I do?

I have no interest in whatever it IS that you do. Thanks, anyway.

What have I ever posted that makes you
> think so? If nothing - why did you see fir to make the insinuation -
> what was your purpose.
>
> --
Uhh... you made a comment about your "package" (referring, I assume, to
your genitiala).

I replied that the only people who would be impressed would be little kids.
Meaning that those of us who are properly endowed don't find it necessary to
go around bragging about the size of Big Al and the Twins. I'm sure your
"package" is quite impressive, especially when compared to a 5 year old's.
I'll take your word on it...don't bother showing us.

You immediately jumped to a conclusion., and I just let you chew on it.

If you choose to make any inference out of that other than "the size of your
willie is probably bigger than a 5 year olds'", go on ahead.


> Jonathan Bratt

[debs]

yeah I was thinking that too.

Anyway...totally off topic ( apologies for the newsgroup police) how are you
doing otherwise. I am assuming the bi-polar is ok. at the moment.

don't let pricks like that get you down ( O sorry "reference there")

I have got 8 months sobriety coming up and I am so glad

debs

--
A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention in
human history, with the possible exception of handguns and tequila.
"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:44Xhdo1$VxG$EwAo@aol.com...
> In message <bff24o$38e$1@titan.btinternet.com>, debs
> <debs172@btinternet.com> writes
> >couldn't agree more Rosie. My brother, who is gay, has been following
this
> >discussion with me........His reaction........."if that is what sobriety
> >does for you....bring on the Vodka"
>
> I suspect moonraker already has - I fail to see what else could engender
> such misdirected bitterness and mud-slinging.
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

[rosie readandpost]

> I have got 8 months sobriety coming up and I am so glad
>
> debs
>
> --


that is fantastic deb!

[Michael Rapp]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 16:34:56 -0400, "Cartman"
<omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Wow Michael....what a statesman you are. When will you be visiting the
>worthless U.N. to advise them on promptly replacing every head of state with
>homosexuals?......following your "logic", we'll have world peace in no time!
>
>- Cartman
>
>P.S. I know my comments are off alc-topic but, just as great ideas demand
>recognition, so do profoundly stupid statements.
--------------------------------
I hereby apologize - I should have painted "sacrcasm" all over my last
post. The point I wanted to ilustrate was that my trust in statistics
is like Churchil's: "I don't trust a statistic which I didn't falsify
myself"
Mike.

[debs]

well just thought I would break up the thread

yah........8 months......


Debs

--
A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention in
human history, with the possible exception of handguns and tequila.
"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:F6FSa.26392$o27.409293@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> > I have got 8 months sobriety coming up and I am so glad
> >
> > debs
> >
> > --
>
>
> that is fantastic deb!
>
>

[Michael Rapp]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:04:49 +0000 (UTC), "debs"
<debs172@btinternet.com> wrote:

>well just thought I would break up the thread
>
--------------------------
c'mon, debs, the thread "re: can someone help me?" runs with 343
follow- ups. that's a long way still to go for the record :-))
btw: congrats on your 8 months of sobriety!
Mike.

[rosie readandpost]

> I hereby apologize - I should have painted "sacrcasm" all over my last
> post. The point I wanted to ilustrate was that my trust in statistics
> is like Churchil's: "I don't trust a statistic which I didn't falsify
> myself"
> Mike.
>

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, i like that!

[Cartman]

100% Agreed..........thanks for the clarification

"Michael Rapp" <m.rapp@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3f1b1e3b.41659803@news.btx.dtag.de...
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 16:34:56 -0400, "Cartman"
> <omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Wow Michael....what a statesman you are. When will you be visiting the
> >worthless U.N. to advise them on promptly replacing every head of state
with
> >homosexuals?......following your "logic", we'll have world peace in no
time!
> >
> >- Cartman
> >
> >P.S. I know my comments are off alc-topic but, just as great ideas demand
> >recognition, so do profoundly stupid statements.
> --------------------------------
> I hereby apologize - I should have painted "sacrcasm" all over my last
> post. The point I wanted to ilustrate was that my trust in statistics
> is like Churchil's: "I don't trust a statistic which I didn't falsify
> myself"
> Mike.
>

[Shawster]

"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2lzSa.5478$g9.1991@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
>
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:D2ySa.41253$k85.1626251@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
> >
> > "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:hFwSa.27431$647.6164@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com. ..
> > >
> > > "Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > news:yA3jT0F9YlG$Ewjp@aol.com...
> > > > >
> > > > Maybe he's been hanging around kindergarten playgrounds?
> > > > --
> > > > Jonathan Bratt
> > >
> > > Got Aids Yet, fagboy?
> >
> > Moon, could you bring the tone down a bit please.
>
> The group's resident pervert can make a totally insulting comment toward
me
> and you ignore it and chose to ask ME to tone it down? Huh.
>

1. I could care less what he says as I don't read his posts.

2. whatever he does does not excuse your behavior.

rise above.


>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <bff5va$mer$1@sparta.btinternet.com>, debs
<debs172@btinternet.com> writes
>yeah I was thinking that too.
>
>Anyway...totally off topic ( apologies for the newsgroup police) how are you
>doing otherwise. I am assuming the bi-polar is ok. at the moment.
>
Was doing OK - but a little setback last week. Happily I am off the
seroxat totally now - yay! Also incorporated other things like a 90 day
gym programme, plus volunteering for a local telephone counselling
helpline and drama group. Have also found relaxation tapes very helpful.
They do one called 'Freedom from Alcohol' if anyone is interested - I'm
using the 'Up from Depression 'one.

I'm up for review with my treatment team today

--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <IxESa.6066$g9.1764@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
<moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
>
>"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:DypP$zhGouG$EwW8@aol.com...
>> In message <_rASa.28854$647.23316@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
>> >
>> >The Kinsey survey found than 37 percent of homosexual men and 2 percent
>of
>> >lesbians admitted sexual
>>
>> Firstly Kinsey has been thoroughly discredited.
>
>By the Rainbow coalition, no doubt.

No - by psychologists and sexual researchers. He made ludicrous claims
about the number of homosexuals too - up to 45% of american males. His
research is not taken seriously any more. It appears much it was made
up.
>
>>
>> Secondly - since even using this discredited report would indicate that
>> the majority of gay men do not have any sexual activities with children
>
>Apparently, two out of every 5 DO, however. I assume you would agree that
>1 in 1,000,000 would be too many?

Of course. The majority of sexual abuse takes place in families - should
all families be condemned for the misbehaviour of a few? Are all fathers
child molesters?
>
>
>> - what do you think that I do?
>
>I have no interest in whatever it IS that you do. Thanks, anyway.
>
>What have I ever posted that makes you
>> think so? If nothing - why did you see fir to make the insinuation -
>> what was your purpose.
>>
>> --
>Uhh... you made a comment about your "package" (referring, I assume, to
>your genitiala).
>
>I replied that the only people who would be impressed would be little kids.
>Meaning that those of us who are properly endowed don't find it necessary to
>go around bragging about the size of Big Al and the Twins. I'm sure your
>"package" is quite impressive, especially when compared to a 5 year old's.
>I'll take your word on it...don't bother showing us.

Oh I won't post a picture. I don't want your inferiority complex on my
conscience.
>
>You immediately jumped to a conclusion., and I just let you chew on it.

>
>If you choose to make any inference out of that other than "the size of your
>willie is probably bigger than a 5 year olds'", go on ahead.

Let's see: I made a humourous comment - complete with smiley about it
when someone mentioned my package, and you referred to pre-schoolers.
Maybe I took this the wrong way, so asked why you thought I would be
interested in them. Your response was:

>>>Why should I be any more interested in pre-schoolers than you are?
>> --
>> Jonathan Bratt
>
>Why, I guess it was just a natural assumption on my part, pansy.

That indicates you did assume I was interested in pre-schoolers. Plus
the gratuitous insult. My preferred flowers are arum lilies btw.

You then followed up by quoting outdated and discredited statistics
purporting to show a correlation between being gay and child abuse - why
do this unless that was your original intention? I note others posters
made the same interpretation I did.

You then finished with that sharp piece of playground wit:

Got Aids Yet, fagboy?

Tell me: where does bigotry, hatred and prejudice feature in a
'searching and fearless moral inventory'?
--
Jonathan Bratt

[rosie readandpost]

> Tell me: where does bigotry, hatred and prejudice feature in a
> 'searching and fearless moral inventory'?
> --
> Jonathan Bratt


IT DOESN'T!

[Moonraker]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b3lZ+YJw6BH$Ewtc@aol.com...
>>
> Tell me: where does bigotry, hatred and prejudice feature in a
> 'searching and fearless moral inventory'?
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

Alright already! E-fucking-nuff! You got your feelings hurt. Mea culpa.

I'm really sorry I called you a pansy and a fag-boy.

If you were a red-headed, one-eyed, left-handed midget amputee and mentioned
that on a newsgroup...you can be sure that somewhere along the line somebody
you disagreed with would throw it back at you. It's a fact of usenet life.
Don't open doors you you don't want people walking through.


Bigot (Big-ot) "a person obstinately devoted to his or her own opinions ".

Prejudice (Prej-u-dice) " (1) : "preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an
adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient
knowledge"

Yep. I'm pretty well devoted to my own opinions. I probably do have some
preconceived judgements and opinions. I also have sufficent knowledge
about various topics to reinforce my obstinance. And the fact that you,
or anybody else, might not agree with me just breaks my heart.

You throw those words around like they are pejoratives. It seems to me
those labels can be pinned on you, too. Are you not "bigoted" toward the
existance of God? Are you not "prejudiced" against those who believe in
Him? Calling someone a bigot is a great buzzword to divert attention from
your own sorry position.

Not that it matters to you, but the word "moral" in the 4th step means
"truthful". It has naught to do with "right from wrong" or the
conventional religious meaning of morality.

I frankly don't care whose pee-pee you play with, or who plays with yours.
How old they are, what color they are, what nationality, gender, or
religious preference. OK? It's a closed issue.

Now, I hope you can pull yourself together from this mortifying experience
and get on with life.

Oh.....one more thing. Buh-bye.

"PLONK"

[ByTor]

In article <2qDRa.23666$351.7823605@twister.nyc.rr.com>,
ByTor@snowdog.com says... while attaching C4 explosives to computer and
foaming at the mouth!
>
> Hi all.......Recently subscribed to the group and just wanted to
> introduce myself and say hello.
>
> I'm an alcoholic & drug addict.
> Been clean/sober for 13 years.
>
> Later!
>


I read it mentioned somewhere about the record for the longest
thread.....Did I break it???? Never knew that I could cause such a stir
by just saying hello.

WOW!! Am I the powerfull one! :0> He, He.

[Gail]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:om0Ta.20224$7O4.467296@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
>
> "Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:lQFm3YOy0HH$EwJu@aol.com...
> > In message <xH_Sa.356$H73.181@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
> > <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> writes
> > >
> > >"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
> > >news:b3lZ+YJw6BH$Ewtc@aol.com...
> > >>>
> > >> Tell me: where does bigotry, hatred and prejudice feature in a
> > >> 'searching and fearless moral inventory'?
> > >> --
> > >> Jonathan Bratt
> > >
> > >Alright already! E-fucking-nuff! You got your feelings hurt. Mea
culpa.
> > >
> > >I'm really sorry I called you a pansy and a fag-boy.
> >
> > Apology accepted.
> > >
> > >
>
>
> GOOD FOR YOU JONATHAN!
>
>
>
> > >Oh.....one more thing. Buh-bye.
> > >
> > >"PLONK"
> >
> > Oh god - my life in ruins.
> > --
> > Jonathan Bratt
>
>
>
> ROTFLMAO!
>
>

Rosie, do you realize you have kept SSSSSSSOOOOOOOO MUCH SHIT stirred since
you have been in this group than anyone ever has? I am just being honest
with my opinion. You appear to get off on all this SHIT and then set back
and say read and post it works. How am I to believe it works when I do not
see it work for you?

))))))))))))))))ROSIE((((((((((((((((((((((

[Shawster]

> >
> >
>
> Rosie, do you realize you have kept SSSSSSSOOOOOOOO MUCH SHIT stirred
since
> you have been in this group than anyone ever has? I am just being honest
> with my opinion. You appear to get off on all this SHIT and then set back
> and say read and post it works. How am I to believe it works when I do not
> see it work for you?

The one good thing about rosie is her idea about the judicious use of the
killfile.

her and her sockpuppet friends can all blow sunshine up eachothers asses all
the way to the bar, and I don't have to watch.

unless, of course, you don't snip out the crap.
>
>>

[Moonraker]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:21317dbb19a6949afccea4cea7d7cdf5@free.teranew s.com...
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:10:33 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
> <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >moon, has been absolutely nasty to jonathan!
>
> So much for "keep it in the day", "love and tolerance", etc.
>
> So Moonraker has some kind of homophobia. I can only accept that's
> how he was thinking, and maybe it even has some kind of underlying
> un-dealt-with Step 4/5 issue. I can't work that Step for him on that
> issue, neither can anyone else.
>
> This came to light for me again recently... a friend expressed his own
> homophobia to me. You may find that disgusting ... until you realize
> that years ago his wife left for a homosexual relationship. Now you
> can perhaps see that without some kind of rational thinking, it would
> be easy to lay blame on the homosexual context. I don't see something
> that's disgusting, I see a person who's feeling, and covering, pain
> from the past. Step 11.
>
> That pain can be something as simple as religious teaching ... in
> order to even have a chance to recover from the hell of alcoholism I
> had to shed much of the Catholic nonsense I grew up with. Some of
> that stuff IS painful to deal with even though, as kids, we had no
> more control over it than we have over the tide coming in.
>
> --
> Blue Moon

[Robert McGregor]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:0j2Ta.580$H73.237@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com...
>
> "Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:21317dbb19a6949afccea4cea7d7cdf5@free.teranew s.com...
> > On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:10:33 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
> > <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >moon, has been absolutely nasty to jonathan!
> >
> > So much for "keep it in the day", "love and tolerance", etc.
> >
> > So Moonraker has some kind of homophobia.
>
>
> Wrong! Homophobia would be "fear" of homosexuals. Probably not gonna
> happen 'round these parts.
>

Arguably, homophobia is merely an invention of those heterophobes who
misinterpret disgust as a phobia.

Topically, I fail to see how either alleged heterophobia, or alleged
homophobia, could ultimately enhance or preclude recovery from alcoholism.

Must it get down to, "Just wanted to say hello, but only to the homo
friendlies ..... or vice versa?

Bob

[pauly]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:DR1Ta.47172$k85.1803481@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
>
>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Rosie, do you realize you have kept SSSSSSSOOOOOOOO MUCH SHIT stirred
> since
> > you have been in this group than anyone ever has? I am just being honest
> > with my opinion. You appear to get off on all this SHIT and then set
back
> > and say read and post it works. How am I to believe it works when I do
not
> > see it work for you?
>
> The one good thing about rosie is her idea about the judicious use of the
> killfile.
>
> her and her sockpuppet friends can all blow sunshine up eachothers asses
all
> the way to the bar, and I don't have to watch.
>
> unless, of course, you don't snip out the crap.
> >
> >>
What nyms do these alleged sock puppets use, wouldn't we easily be able to
spot them as hiding behind a remailer or some such?

[pauly]

"ByTor" <ByTor@snowdog.com> wrote in message
news:Yk1Ta.12801$On.1847279@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> In article <2qDRa.23666$351.7823605@twister.nyc.rr.com>,
> ByTor@snowdog.com says... while attaching C4 explosives to computer and
> foaming at the mouth!
> >
> > Hi all.......Recently subscribed to the group and just wanted to
> > introduce myself and say hello.
> >
> > I'm an alcoholic & drug addict.
> > Been clean/sober for 13 years.
> >
> > Later!
> >
>
>
> I read it mentioned somewhere about the record for the longest
> thread.....Did I break it???? Never knew that I could cause such a stir
> by just saying hello.
>
> WOW!! Am I the powerfull one! :0> He, He.

You can be my higher power from now on :-)

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <21317dbb19a6949afccea4cea7d7cdf5@free.teranews.com >, Blue
Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
>I don't see something that's disgusting, I see a person who's feeling,
>and covering, pain from the past. Step 11.

I would fully concur with that. I once had a friend of a friend who
clearly had a problem with me. Once night - with the help of wine - it
turned out he had suffered from abuse by a teacher at his school, and
had been damaged by that experience. Because of the insidious nature of
abusers it was this chap who was carrying the guilt.

Happily, we were able to talk this through over a while - I was training
as a counsellor at the time or I would not have been able to cope, and I
am delighted to say that he worked it through, and is now happy, in a
great relationship with kids.

I have no problem with homophobia as such - people can hold whatever
opinions they wish of me - but vehement expressions of contempt and
maybe worse should not IMO go unchallenged. Perhaps there is/will be gay
lurkers on this group unsure as to what support they might receive, and
I think it would be a great shame if they were scared away. They might
also take it as typical of AA - and I am sure that this is not the case.

Racist comments would not be lightly dismissed - homophobic statements
are equally unacceptable IMO.

Consider - she is racist because her white husband ran off with a black
woman. One might understand, but not ignore the racism created.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <lY0Ta.541$H73.417@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com>, Bobby L.
<BobbyL2000nospam@bellsouth.net> writes
>
>"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:tkWSa.19565$7O4.443726@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>
>>
>> > Tell me: where does bigotry, hatred and prejudice feature in a
>> > 'searching and fearless moral inventory'?
>> > --
>> > Jonathan Bratt
>
>
>The only inventory you get to take is your own..... So after you've done
>that... you won't have to ask this question.

Not sure I follow you. I don't do the steps at you know, but constantly
try to think about my elf, my feelings, my reactions and treatments of
others. Where I find fault - I try and change.

Why would that effect my question?
--
Jonathan Bratt

[My Name]

ByTor <ByTor@snowdog.com> wrote in
news:Yk1Ta.12801$On.1847279@twister.nyc.rr.com:

> In article <2qDRa.23666$351.7823605@twister.nyc.rr.com>,
> ByTor@snowdog.com says... while attaching C4 explosives to
> computer and foaming at the mouth!
>>
>> Hi all.......Recently subscribed to the group and just
>> wanted to introduce myself and say hello.
>>
>> I'm an alcoholic & drug addict.
>> Been clean/sober for 13 years.
>>
>> Later!

> I read it mentioned somewhere about the record for the
> longest thread.....Did I break it???? Never knew that I
> could cause such a stir by just saying hello.
>
> WOW!! Am I the powerfull one! :0> He, He.

Pot Stirrer! ;)

--
You know that some people are different.
Now ain't that a crying shame.
Wouldn't it be a real drag, if we were all the same.
Savoy Brown

[rosie readandpost]

> Rosie, do you realize you have kept SSSSSSSOOOOOOOO MUCH SHIT stirred since
> you have been in this group than anyone ever has?


gail,
watching with relief and some amusement as folks who are "picked apart" by a few in here, recover from their blows, and
continue with their recovery, is hardly STIRRING up SHIT.
perhaps, you will STOP before you judge and READ ALL the posts from "your friends" directed at a
few....................they are vicious, nasty, and hardly supportive of ANY kind of recovery.
are we reading the same newsgroup?
really?



>. How am I to believe it works when I do not
> see it work for you?
>

gail,
it works just fine for me, odaat i KNOW that you know that!............................ that is what i try to convey in
here when i share my experience, strength, and hope. (which some argue with, whenever i post)
there are so many different personalities in here, and with the anonymity of usenet, there are bound to be rude and
obnoxious folks. (every newsgroup gets some, look around you)

rosie

[rosie readandpost]

> ................her and her sockpuppet friends can all blow sunshine up eachothers asses all
> the way to the bar, and I don't have to watch.
>

shaw,
are you accusing me of being drunk?

[rosie readandpost]

>
> The only inventory you get to take is your own..... So after you've done
> that... you won't have to ask this question.
>
> Bobby L
>
>
>

bobby,
not sticking up for yourself, when attacked, can be indicative of many problems.
please do not ask folks "to turn the other cheek" without posting to the perpetrators first!

[rosie readandpost]

> This came to light for me again recently... a friend expressed his own
> homophobia to me. You may find that disgusting ... until you realize
> that years ago his wife left for a homosexual relationship.

because of that your friend uses his personal relationship betrayal as an EXCUSE to be homophobic?

when i was a child, i was beat up by several boys, who were black.
do i have an EXCUSE to condemn the whole race and be a RACIST?

[rosie readandpost]

> > WOW!! Am I the powerfull one! :0> He, He.
>
> You can be my higher power from now on :-)
>
>

ROTFLMAO!

[Moonraker]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:om0Ta.20224$7O4.467296@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>

>
> GOOD FOR YOU JONATHAN!
>
>

When does the ticker-tape parade start? Call in the Rainbow Coalition from
all corners of the earth! I can see it now. Miles and miles of
hairdressers with their pants hiked up into the crack of their ass, mincing
their way down 5th Ave in NYC. Carrying little Jonny-boy on their shoulders
and waving banners and acting like their little 2% of the world amounts to
something.

What fucking business is this of YOURS, anyway? Like Gail said, you can't
resist being a shit disturber.

You act like you and your buddy won the lottery. Both of you are
too fucking simple to recognise sarcasm when you see it.

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <I6iTa.2456$H73.54@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
<fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> writes
>Both of you are too fucking simple to recognise sarcasm when you see
>it.

But not too simple to recognise a twisted, hate-filled, bigoted little
twerp.

Go back to your dirty magazines little boy.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Bobby L.]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:6gwhr9RkSQH$Ew40@aol.com...
> In message <lY0Ta.541$H73.417@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com>, Bobby L.
> <BobbyL2000nospam@bellsouth.net> writes
> >
> >"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:tkWSa.19565$7O4.443726@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >>
> >>
> >> > Tell me: where does bigotry, hatred and prejudice feature in a
> >> > 'searching and fearless moral inventory'?
> >> > --
> >> > Jonathan Bratt
> >
> >
> >The only inventory you get to take is your own..... So after you've done
> >that... you won't have to ask this question.
>
> Not sure I follow you. I don't do the steps at you know, but constantly
> try to think about my elf, my feelings, my reactions and treatments of
> others. Where I find fault - I try and change.
>
> Why would that effect my question?
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

I sensed you were bandying about the steps as though you understood them and
their purpose - which seemed odd knowing you do not work the steps. I used
to think of My...., My....., My..... first, too.

[Bobby L.]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2EaTa.23409$7O4.502973@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> >
> > The only inventory you get to take is your own..... So after you've done
> > that... you won't have to ask this question.
> >
> > Bobby L
> >
> >
> >
>
> bobby,
> not sticking up for yourself, when attacked, can be indicative of many
problems.
> please do not ask folks "to turn the other cheek" without posting to the
perpetrators first!
>


Two wrongs don't make a right - I don't care whose calculator you use. But
if I ever start giving you shit about whether or not you have or are working
the steps you can bet your ass it will only be about the ones I know
something about by having done them.

The only inventory I get to take is my own -- and if something is bothering
me so much that I cannot simply walk away then I am the one with the
problem. Sobriety is NOT FOR WIMPS!


Bobby L

[Robert McGregor]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xfpa0PADjbH$EwuL@aol.com...
> In message <poiTa.3741$h9.1462@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com>, Bobby L.
> <BobbyL2000nospam@bellsouth.net> writes
> >
> >"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:6gwhr9RkSQH$Ew40@aol.com...
> >> In message <lY0Ta.541$H73.417@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com>, Bobby L.
> >> <BobbyL2000nospam@bellsouth.net> writes
> >> >
> >> >"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:tkWSa.19565$7O4.443726@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Tell me: where does bigotry, hatred and prejudice feature in a
> >> >> > 'searching and fearless moral inventory'?
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Jonathan Bratt
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >The only inventory you get to take is your own..... So after you've
done
> >> >that... you won't have to ask this question.
> >>
> >> Not sure I follow you. I don't do the steps at you know, but constantly
> >> try to think about my elf, my feelings, my reactions and treatments of
> >> others. Where I find fault - I try and change.
> >>
> >> Why would that effect my question?
> >> --
> >> Jonathan Bratt
> >
> >I sensed you were bandying about the steps as though you understood them
and
> >their purpose - which seemed odd knowing you do not work the steps. I
used
> >to think of My...., My....., My..... first, too.
> >
> >
> >
> I don't - I have looked at them and had them quoted to me on many
> occasions. I was questioning whether the 'qualities' that moony was
> displaying were those that would survive such an inventory, and if
> so....
>
> If I have got it wrong, I'm sorry.
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

Jonathan, you seem to be ignorant as to the fundamental difference between
an inventory, and a clearance.

Regardless of how thoroughly, and often, we self inventory, some of our
"wrongs" may never be listed. Unless the inventeror happens to be a Saint,
ceasing perpetuation of that list is a lifelong process.

In instances where removal is solely delegated to "God," removal may never
occur at all. Deists comfortably describe that as God saying "NO"

Bob

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <bfkr24$fcnf4$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de>, Robert McGregor
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> writes
> >I sensed you were bandying about the steps as though you understood them
>and
>> >their purpose - which seemed odd knowing you do not work the steps. I
>used
>> >to think of My...., My....., My..... first, too.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> I don't - I have looked at them and had them quoted to me on many
>> occasions. I was questioning whether the 'qualities' that moony was
>> displaying were those that would survive such an inventory, and if
>> so....
>>
>> If I have got it wrong, I'm sorry.
>> --
>> Jonathan Bratt
>
>Jonathan, you seem to be ignorant as to the fundamental difference
>between an inventory, and a clearance.
>
>Regardless of how thoroughly, and often, we self inventory, some of our
>"wrongs" may never be listed. Unless the inventeror happens to be a
>Saint, ceasing perpetuation of that list is a lifelong process.
>
>In instances where removal is solely delegated to "God," removal may
>never occur at all. Deists comfortably describe that as God saying "NO"

OK - that makes sense. I had understood the inventory process to be a
precursor to the clearance, and that the clearance was a prerequisite to
the next step.

Thanks for explaining - appreciate it.

--
Jonathan Bratt

[pauly]

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ogXlbAR4PQH$Ewby@aol.com...
> In message <21317dbb19a6949afccea4cea7d7cdf5@free.teranews.com >, Blue
> Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> writes
> >I don't see something that's disgusting, I see a person who's feeling,
> >and covering, pain from the past. Step 11.
>
> I would fully concur with that. I once had a friend of a friend who
> clearly had a problem with me. Once night - with the help of wine - it
> turned out he had suffered from abuse by a teacher at his school, and
> had been damaged by that experience. Because of the insidious nature of
> abusers it was this chap who was carrying the guilt.
>
> Happily, we were able to talk this through over a while - I was training
> as a counsellor at the time or I would not have been able to cope, and I
> am delighted to say that he worked it through, and is now happy, in a
> great relationship with kids.
watch your wording Jonathan, you'll only start it all over again ;-)
> I have no problem with homophobia as such - people can hold whatever
> opinions they wish of me - but vehement expressions of contempt and
> maybe worse should not IMO go unchallenged. Perhaps there is/will be gay
> lurkers on this group unsure as to what support they might receive, and
> I think it would be a great shame if they were scared away. They might
> also take it as typical of AA - and I am sure that this is not the case.
>
> Racist comments would not be lightly dismissed - homophobic statements
> are equally unacceptable IMO.
>
> Consider - she is racist because her white husband ran off with a black
> woman. One might understand, but not ignore the racism created.
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <QnATa.340$c17.331734@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>, pauly
<me@me.com> writes
>> Happily, we were able to talk this through over a while - I was training
>> as a counsellor at the time or I would not have been able to cope, and I
>> am delighted to say that he worked it through, and is now happy, in a
>> great relationship with kids.
> watch your wording Jonathan, you'll only start it all over again ;-)

Curses - if it hadn't been for you pesky kids...... >-)
--
Jonathan Bratt

[rosie readandpost]

> Sure it does! If I'm feeling bigotry, hatred and prejudice and that's
> NOT on my inventory, the inventory is clearly incomplete!
>
> --
> Blue Moon

imo, your right on!
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

"In a few days they will show us another fat body with a beard and say it's Saddam."
ZOHAIR MATY, a 30-year-old Iraqi laborer, expressing skepticism that pictures of Saddam Hussein's sons' bodies were
authentic.






"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:19ff43c3c60f71abf96b02fe6cbef47b@free.teranew s.com...
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:31:53 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
> <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> Tell me: where does bigotry, hatred and prejudice feature in a
> >> 'searching and fearless moral inventory'?
> >> --
> >> Jonathan Bratt
> >
> >IT DOESN'T!
>
> Sure it does! If I'm feeling bigotry, hatred and prejudice and that's
> NOT on my inventory, the inventory is clearly incomplete!
>
> --
> Blue Moon

[rosie readandpost]

LOL!
try it sometime!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

"In a few days they will show us another fat body with a beard and say it's Saddam."
ZOHAIR MATY, a 30-year-old Iraqi laborer, expressing skepticism that pictures of Saddam Hussein's sons' bodies were
authentic.





>...................... It states
> quite clearly that "the inventory is ours, not the other person's".
> It also outlines quite clearly ways to respond to those who mistreat
> us, and mention retaliation only in the context of avoidance.
>

>
> --
> Blue Moon

[Moonraker]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5miUa.36256>

"In a few days they will show us another fat body with a moustache and say
it's Rosie Readandpost."

ZOHAIR MATY, a 30-year-old Iraqi laborer, expressing skepticism that
multiple posts by Rosie expressing her experience, strength and hope were
authentic.

[Blue Moon]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:31:53 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>> Tell me: where does bigotry, hatred and prejudice feature in a
>> 'searching and fearless moral inventory'?
>> --
>> Jonathan Bratt
>
>IT DOESN'T!

Sure it does! If I'm feeling bigotry, hatred and prejudice and that's
NOT on my inventory, the inventory is clearly incomplete!

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:20:51 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
<jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:

>I don't - I have looked at them and had them quoted to me on many
>occasions. I was questioning whether the 'qualities' that moony was
>displaying were those that would survive such an inventory, and if
>so....

Any inappropriate qualities would certainly "survive" an inventory,
because that's all it is ... an inventory. Very little actual change
takes place with just the inventory. In fact, many alcoholics can
feel (and thus act) worse at the end of their inventory, simply
because they're finally facing up to all the stuff they've spent all
these years trying to run away from.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:50:33 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>LOL!
>try it sometime!

I will if you will!

--
Blue Moon

[Gail]

"ByTor" <ByTor@snowdog.com> wrote in message
news:SUiUa.40913$852.4783@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> In article <Yk1Ta.12801$On.1847279@twister.nyc.rr.com>,
> ByTor@snowdog.com says... while attaching C4 explosives to computer and
> foaming at the mouth!
>
> > In article <2qDRa.23666$351.7823605@twister.nyc.rr.com>,
> > ByTor@snowdog.com says... while attaching C4 explosives to computer and
> > foaming at the mouth!
> > >
> > > Hi all.......Recently subscribed to the group and just wanted to
> > > introduce myself and say hello.
> > >
> > > I'm an alcoholic & drug addict.
> > > Been clean/sober for 13 years.
> > >
> > > Later!
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 105 & keeps going & going & going......
>
> Starting to feel like the Energizer Bunny..... :0)

Welcome Later. Gosh, It seems like I have done this before..;)
Gail

[ByTor]

In article <vi44bla9afti18@corp.supernews.com>, serenity6850_2000
@yahoo.com says... while attaching C4 explosives to computer and
foaming at the mouth!

> Welcome Later. Gosh, It seems like I have done this before..;)
> Gail

Just being a joker.... :0)

Is there some sort of FAQ for the group?? I guess maybe it wasn't what I
thought it would be?

Thanks....

ByTor

[Gail]

ByTor wrote:
> In article <vi44bla9afti18@corp.supernews.com>, serenity6850_2000
> @yahoo.com says... while attaching C4 explosives to computer and
> foaming at the mouth!
>
>> Welcome Later. Gosh, It seems like I have done this before..;)
>> Gail
>
> Just being a joker.... :0)
>
> Is there some sort of FAQ for the group?? I guess maybe it wasn't
> what I thought it would be?
>
> Thanks....
>
> ByTor

What did you think it would be?
Best,
Gail

[ByTor]

In article <vi4l7m70ecpg33@corp.supernews.com>, serenity6850_2000
@yahoo.com says... while attaching C4 explosives to computer and
foaming at the mouth!

> ByTor wrote:
> > In article <vi44bla9afti18@corp.supernews.com>, serenity6850_2000
> > @yahoo.com says... while attaching C4 explosives to computer and
> > foaming at the mouth!
> >
> >> Welcome Later. Gosh, It seems like I have done this before..;)
> >> Gail
> >
> > Just being a joker.... :0)
> >
> > Is there some sort of FAQ for the group?? I guess maybe it wasn't
> > what I thought it would be?
> >
> > Thanks....
> >
> > ByTor
>
> What did you think it would be?
> Best,
> Gail

I've been following and reading mostly all threads for a while and it
appears to be a mix and not just the "AA" language type. It's not a big
deal, it's a little refreshing to see variety. Don't get me wrong, my
sobriety has been AA driven since the beginning. I had just wanted to
see if there was some type of FAQ that explained generally what the
group was about that's all. Makes it a little easier to understand when
one understands the subject matter.

Thanks......... :0)

[ByTor]

In article <K0wUa.39953$o27.769321@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com says... while attaching C4 explosives
to computer and foaming at the mouth!

> make no mistake, this is NOT an AA meeting, or an AA group.
> there are however, lots of us in here who DO use the AA program as a huge tool in our sobriety.
>
> --
> read and post daily, it works!
> rosie


Never meant to make the mistake.... :0)

Just doing some basic lawn maintanence & weeding out. ;0>

Thanks Rosie......

[rosie readandpost]

gotcha!
:)

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

Little things affect little minds.
.....................Benjamin Disraeli



"ByTor" <ByTor@snowdog.com> wrote in message news:JOwUa.49044$852.21366@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> In article <K0wUa.39953$o27.769321@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com says... while attaching C4 explosives
> to computer and foaming at the mouth!
>
> > make no mistake, this is NOT an AA meeting, or an AA group.
> > there are however, lots of us in here who DO use the AA program as a huge tool in our sobriety.
> >
> > --
> > read and post daily, it works!
> > rosie
>
>
> Never meant to make the mistake.... :0)
>
> Just doing some basic lawn maintanence & weeding out. ;0>
>
> Thanks Rosie......

[Blue Moon]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:59:37 GMT, ByTor <ByTor@snowdog.com> wrote:

>Is there some sort of FAQ for the group??

No. Nobody would even be able to agree on the definition of
"alcoholic", let alone anything else.

--
Blue Moon