Totally F***ed Up

[Vaney]

Hey people,

I've been lurking here quite some time. I've been encouraged by lots of posts,
and my intention is strong (to quit drinking) but so far I'm not successful.
I've had meeting after meeting after meeting with my HP, but the answer I'm
getting is that there is no help forthcoming from that direction. I have to do
this all alone, and that scares the shit out of me. Why my HP is keeping aloof
is quite beyond me, except that I have always had to depend only on myself;
perhaps the lack of safety-net in my life precludes any strong confidence in
the HP being on my side.

The strange thing is that I am *very* sure that I have a HP, and that I am
being observed by Him/Her, but my appeal for real help is met with
indifference. I must say here that (at least in my community) AA meetings are
not an option. There are privacy/secrecy issues, and here the HP ID is
primarily Christian, of which group I am not a member. I really just want an
initial boost, a few days of respite, or a sign that some f***ing body is
listening.

My MO is one bottle of wine every evening, alone in my little house. Initially
I was a Jack Daniel's fan, and used in order to be able to sleep. I don't know
if I'm an alcoholic or just a "problem drinker" (ah, what denial fantasies THAT
phrase conjures up!). When I read about people drinking a fifth of vodka every
day, I allow myself to think that I'm not so bad, y'know? But I am obsessing
about this drinking. I am pissed off every morning, and I debate my trip to
the liquor store every day - yes or no? which date should I pick to quit? is
the same clerk there that checked me out yesterday, and what does he think? I
mean, this is totally out of hand. No one who knows me would suspect that this
conflict is breaking me up - I have been quite careful to maintain a productive
and well-managed lifestyle - no major blips, no embarrassing scenes.

Anyway, that's my story and I'll appreciate any advice you're willing to give.
I have never until today actually "spoken" with anyone about this dilemma; I'm
a total newbie. I know that I need to quit drinking alone and at home. Can I
drink socially? Will rules like that work? What should I do? I'm an open
book here - all help will be taken gratefully and considered with an open mind.

Anyway, to all you unknown and well-known posters, my various best wishes,
congratulations, questions and requests for counsel.

Thank you in advance ~
Vaney
to email, simplify...

"...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
Lord Peter Wimsey

[Robert McGregor]

"Vaney" <vanegirl@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20040922215828.21613.00001103@mb-m10.aol.com...
> Hey people,
>
> I've been lurking here quite some time. I've been encouraged by
> lots of posts,
> and my intention is strong (to quit drinking) but so far I'm not
> successful.
> I've had meeting after meeting after meeting with my HP, but the
> answer I'm
> getting is that there is no help forthcoming from that direction.
> I have to do
> this all alone, and that scares the shit out of me. Why my HP is
> keeping aloof
> is quite beyond me, except that I have always had to depend only on
> myself;
> perhaps the lack of safety-net in my life precludes any strong
> confidence in
> the HP being on my side.
>
> The strange thing is that I am *very* sure that I have a HP, and
> that I am
> being observed by Him/Her, but my appeal for real help is met with
> indifference. I must say here that (at least in my community) AA
> meetings are
> not an option. There are privacy/secrecy issues, and here the HP
> ID is
> primarily Christian, of which group I am not a member. I really
> just want an
> initial boost, a few days of respite, or a sign that some f***ing
> body is
> listening.
>
> My MO is one bottle of wine every evening, alone in my little
> house. Initially
> I was a Jack Daniel's fan, and used in order to be able to sleep.
> I don't know
> if I'm an alcoholic or just a "problem drinker" (ah, what denial
> fantasies THAT
> phrase conjures up!). When I read about people drinking a fifth of
> vodka every
> day, I allow myself to think that I'm not so bad, y'know? But I am
> obsessing
> about this drinking. I am pissed off every morning, and I debate
> my trip to
> the liquor store every day - yes or no? which date should I pick to
> quit? is
> the same clerk there that checked me out yesterday, and what does
> he think? I
> mean, this is totally out of hand. No one who knows me would
> suspect that this
> conflict is breaking me up - I have been quite careful to maintain
> a productive
> and well-managed lifestyle - no major blips, no embarrassing
> scenes.
>
> Anyway, that's my story and I'll appreciate any advice you're
> willing to give.
> I have never until today actually "spoken" with anyone about this
> dilemma; I'm
> a total newbie. I know that I need to quit drinking alone and at
> home. Can I
> drink socially? Will rules like that work? What should I do? I'm
> an open
> book here - all help will be taken gratefully and considered with
> an open mind.
>
> Anyway, to all you unknown and well-known posters, my various best
> wishes,
> congratulations, questions and requests for counsel.
>
> Thank you in advance ~

Making the time to check out http://www.moderation.org/whatisMM.shtml
also up to the end of chapter three @
http://silkworth.net/bb/doctorsopinion.html may help you determine
the appropriate path for you.

By the way, I don't recall ever hearing a committed "believer" claim
their God will do for them what they should do for themselves! I'm
not familiar with Moderation Managements practices, but certainly
believe the actions implicit in the simple AA program @
http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_59.htm leave no loophole for faith to
fail.

Hope that helps,

Bob

[MB]

"Vaney" <vanegirl@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20040922215828.21613.00001103@mb-m10.aol.com...
> Hey people,
>
> I've been lurking here quite some time. I've been encouraged by lots of
posts,
> and my intention is strong (to quit drinking) but so far I'm not
successful.
> I've had meeting after meeting after meeting with my HP, but the answer
I'm
> getting is that there is no help forthcoming from that direction. I have
to do
> this all alone, and that scares the shit out of me. Why my HP is keeping
aloof
> is quite beyond me, except that I have always had to depend only on
myself;
> perhaps the lack of safety-net in my life precludes any strong confidence
in
> the HP being on my side.

I can't comment on the HP aspect as my experience of alcoholism has never
involved looking outside of myself for the cause or the cure. Sorry if that
offends anyone, but when I was quitting the bottle I believed that "I got
myself in this mess, I must get myself out."

>
> The strange thing is that I am *very* sure that I have a HP, and that I am
> being observed by Him/Her, but my appeal for real help is met with
> indifference. I must say here that (at least in my community) AA meetings
are
> not an option. There are privacy/secrecy issues, and here the HP ID is
> primarily Christian, of which group I am not a member. I really just want
an
> initial boost, a few days of respite, or a sign that some f***ing body is
> listening.

Ditto.

>
> My MO is one bottle of wine every evening, alone in my little house.
Initially
> I was a Jack Daniel's fan, and used in order to be able to sleep. I don't
know
> if I'm an alcoholic or just a "problem drinker" (ah, what denial fantasies
THAT
> phrase conjures up!). When I read about people drinking a fifth of vodka
every
> day, I allow myself to think that I'm not so bad, y'know? But I am
obsessing
> about this drinking. I am pissed off every morning, and I debate my trip
to
> the liquor store every day - yes or no? which date should I pick to quit?
is
> the same clerk there that checked me out yesterday, and what does he
think? I
> mean, this is totally out of hand. No one who knows me would suspect that
this
> conflict is breaking me up - I have been quite careful to maintain a
productive
> and well-managed lifestyle - no major blips, no embarrassing scenes.

My MO was a full 75cl bottle of cheap (but full strength) vodka per day -
sometimes more. I drank alone and in secret (or so I thought!) What you say
about the liquor store is very true - what were the staff there thinking
when I turned up every morning at 8am for a bottle of spirits???

>
> Anyway, that's my story and I'll appreciate any advice you're willing to
give.
> I have never until today actually "spoken" with anyone about this dilemma;
I'm
> a total newbie. I know that I need to quit drinking alone and at home.
Can I
> drink socially? Will rules like that work? What should I do? I'm an
open
> book here - all help will be taken gratefully and considered with an open
mind.

My advice, for what it's worth:
1. Speak with somebody. It's a big weight lifted when you can admit this
problem. It may be the hardest thing you ever do, but it is very important.
Choose somebody close to you, somebody who respects you enough to want to
see you get well.

2. You WILL NOT be able to do this alone. You may sit at home for a couple
of dry days, feel like hell, then when it's over you will be back in the
store buying that bottle and wondering what all the fuss was about. I
guarantee it - alcoholism is a part of you that you have no control over so
please don't think you can trust yourself because you can't. Remember - it
will be with you for the rest of your life, even if you never drink again. I
don't know your personal circumstances but you do need somebody to help get
you through this - that's why I have a lot of respect for AA even though I
have never used it. AA provides contact with other people who know exactly
what you are doing and why - if you have nobody close enough to you to get
you through, I would suggest AA. I was fortunate in having a close family to
get me through - I put them through all sorts of hell, but without them I
would now be dead.

3. If you really are an alcoholic - and only you can know this for sure -
then no, you can never drink alcohol again so forget "drinking socially"
right now. It's not as bad as it sounds, believe me. Once the withdrawal and
craving is over - life is really pretty good without alcohol (I never
thought I would say that)! How do you know if you are an alcoholic? My take
on this is if your thoughts are constantly centred around the next drink, if
you sub-consciously plan your life around having a drink then you are
alcoholic. You have to be honest with yourself here, and if you are and you
discover that alcohol is the dominant force in your life, then you must stop
drinking now, however hard that may be.

4. If you have read this far and you (a) decide you are alcoholic and (b)
are prepared to quit, then get ready for some very unpleasant experiences.
My withdrawals (five of them) could, and should, have killed me - hopefully
yours will be less severe, as my drinking was off the scale while I would
describe yours as excessive. Prepare yourself by reading up on the internet
or better still, buy and read the book Beyond the Influence - here's a link
but you can find it most places online:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553380141/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/104-8215986-5235938?v=glance&s=books&st=*

If you have any more questions, feel free to email me. Use the following
address, but remove the word "private"
embeeprivate@clara.net

Good luck and best wishes


>
> Anyway, to all you unknown and well-known posters, my various best wishes,
> congratulations, questions and requests for counsel.
>
> Thank you in advance ~
> Vaney
> to email, simplify...
>
> "...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
> Lord Peter Wimsey
>
>

[[[]]]

MB- First you say..

> I can't comment on the HP aspect as my experience of alcoholism has never
> involved looking outside of myself for the cause or the cure. Sorry if
> that
> offends anyone, but when I was quitting the bottle I believed that "I got
> myself in this mess, I must get myself out."

and then you go on to say,

> 1. Speak with somebody. It's a big weight lifted when you can admit this
> problem. It may be the hardest thing you ever do, but it is very
> important.
> Choose somebody close to you, somebody who respects you enough to want to
> see you get well.
>
> 2. You WILL NOT be able to do this alone.

I'm confused.

-Steve

[Fred Exley]

Excellent post, MB. I hope you're listening Vannie.

>I drank alone and in secret (or so I thought!) What you say
> about the liquor store is very true - what were the staff there thinking
> when I turned up every morning at 8am for a bottle of spirits???

So true, so true. I 'faced' this problem by rotating the stores I'd visit
in the morning. That way, the clerk at each only saw me every few days.
And after a cup or two in the parking lot, who gives a shit what those
dumb-ass clerks think anyway?


>- alcoholism is a part of you that you have no control over...

In A.A., that admission is Step One. Nobody stops drinking for long without
it.


> 3. If you really are an alcoholic - and only you can know this for sure -
> then no, you can never drink alcohol again so forget "drinking socially"
> right now. It's not as bad as it sounds, believe me. Once the withdrawal
> and
> craving is over - life is really pretty good without alcohol (I never
> thought I would say that)!

I didn't believe it either when anyone promised life would be pretty good
without drinking, but it's actually true. Right now your mind is telling
you otherwise, but as you know, your mind is impaired right now -you're
looking at the world from under a big rock, and even when you aren't buzzed
you aren't anywhere near detoxed.

Another fringe benefit of getting past it: LOT'S of extra money in your
pocket!

-Fred

[Cheggers]

vanegirl@aol.complicated (Vaney) wrote in message news:<20040922215828.21613.00001103@mb-m10.aol.com>...
> Hey people,
>
> I've been lurking here quite some time. I've been encouraged by lots of posts,
> and my intention is strong (to quit drinking) but so far I'm not successful.
> I've had meeting after meeting after meeting with my HP, but the answer I'm
> getting is that there is no help forthcoming from that direction. I have to do
> this all alone, and that scares the shit out of me. Why my HP is keeping aloof
> is quite beyond me, except that I have always had to depend only on myself;
> perhaps the lack of safety-net in my life precludes any strong confidence in
> the HP being on my side.
>
> The strange thing is that I am *very* sure that I have a HP, and that I am
> being observed by Him/Her, but my appeal for real help is met with
> indifference. I must say here that (at least in my community) AA meetings are
> not an option. There are privacy/secrecy issues, and here the HP ID is
> primarily Christian, of which group I am not a member. I really just want an
> initial boost, a few days of respite, or a sign that some f***ing body is
> listening.
>
> My MO is one bottle of wine every evening, alone in my little house. Initially
> I was a Jack Daniel's fan, and used in order to be able to sleep. I don't know
> if I'm an alcoholic or just a "problem drinker" (ah, what denial fantasies THAT
> phrase conjures up!). When I read about people drinking a fifth of vodka every
> day, I allow myself to think that I'm not so bad, y'know? But I am obsessing
> about this drinking. I am pissed off every morning, and I debate my trip to
> the liquor store every day - yes or no? which date should I pick to quit? is
> the same clerk there that checked me out yesterday, and what does he think? I
> mean, this is totally out of hand. No one who knows me would suspect that this
> conflict is breaking me up - I have been quite careful to maintain a productive
> and well-managed lifestyle - no major blips, no embarrassing scenes.
>
> Anyway, that's my story and I'll appreciate any advice you're willing to give.
> I have never until today actually "spoken" with anyone about this dilemma; I'm
> a total newbie. I know that I need to quit drinking alone and at home. Can I
> drink socially? Will rules like that work? What should I do? I'm an open
> book here - all help will be taken gratefully and considered with an open mind.
>
> Anyway, to all you unknown and well-known posters, my various best wishes,
> congratulations, questions and requests for counsel.
>
> Thank you in advance ~
> Vaney
> to email, simplify...
>
> "...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
> Lord Peter Wimsey


Sounds like ole Lord Wimsey was a bit of an obsessive too, wouldn't
you say? Welcome. Since they come in different sizes, how big's that
bottle of wine Vaney? I used to like the heavier one.

Cheggs
Who can still mentally do the price/volume/strength equation most
effectively.

[MB]

Sorry to confuse you! On a spiritual/emotional/mental level, I did not want
to look outside of myself for a cause or solution to my problems. However,
on a tangible, physical level then I do believe that sharing what you are
going through with another human being is important.

In my experience, having somebody who's prepared to sit with you during the
pain of withdrawal, clean up after the vomiting, make lots of soft drinks
when your hands are too shaky and keep you from going to the store for
alcohol is crucial to recovery.

The original poster suggested they were going to try to dry out at home
alone - I do not believe that would be a good idea. In my experience, a
person withdrawing from alcohol needs some level of supervision. The OP also
seemed to be reluctant to share their problem with another person - I
believe sharing actually helps the alcoholic confront their problems.

For me, no matter how many people I share my problem with, I still believe
that "I got myself in this mess, I must get myself out." I accept that for
many the concept of a HP is very helpful in their recovery and I have no
problem with that. It just wasn't going to work for me.

Hope that explains things a little more clearly.

Regards





"[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
news:HxA4d.84020$JC5.43406@fe14.usenetserver.com.. .
> MB- First you say..
>
> > I can't comment on the HP aspect as my experience of alcoholism has
never
> > involved looking outside of myself for the cause or the cure. Sorry if
> > that
> > offends anyone, but when I was quitting the bottle I believed that "I
got
> > myself in this mess, I must get myself out."
>
> and then you go on to say,
>
> > 1. Speak with somebody. It's a big weight lifted when you can admit this
> > problem. It may be the hardest thing you ever do, but it is very
> > important.
> > Choose somebody close to you, somebody who respects you enough to want
to
> > see you get well.
> >
> > 2. You WILL NOT be able to do this alone.
>
> I'm confused.
>
> -Steve
>
>
>

[MB]

>
> Another fringe benefit of getting past it: LOT'S of extra money in your
> pocket!
>
Ahhhhhh how I wish that was true!! Unfortunately, now that I have the
ability to enjoy life once again I actually find I have LESS money -
daytrips with the wife, shopping with the wife, eating regular meals,
visiting restaurants, new hobbies and interests, caring about having decent
clothes and looking my best etc etc. It's much more expensive than a £10
bottle of vodka each day! But I would NOT want to go back into that
particular saving scheme again :-)

[Vaney]

Cheggers wrote:


>Since they come in different sizes, how big's that
>bottle of wine Vaney? I used to like the heavier one.

Well, in the name of economy I usually buy the 1.5 liter Almaden Chardonnay,
but I only drink half of it. (On occasion I've been known to add an extra
glass). I haven't bought the giant jug for ages. The 5-liter box is really
the best deal, but it's like an unlimited keg, so I avoid it. My usual is 4
glasses from 6:00 or so until 11:00, all filled with ice (I use a tumbler,
nothing so elegant as an actual wine glass).

Vaney
to email, simplify...

"...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
Lord Peter Wimsey

[Vaney]

MB said:

>The original poster suggested they were going to try to dry out at home
>alone - I do not believe that would be a good idea. In my experience, a
>person withdrawing from alcohol needs some level of supervision. The OP also
>seemed to be reluctant to share their problem with another person - I
>believe sharing actually helps the alcoholic confront their problems.

Actually, I HAVE shared my anxieties with one other person - an old, old school
friend with whom I reconnected at a class reunion. I found out she hasn't had
a drink in 17 years, did the AA thing. This piqued my interest, and we had
some good conversations, but she was only able to offer thoughts like, "you'll
quit when you're sick and tired of being sick and tired," and "quitting is
simple but it's not easy" It's nice to know there's someone who can relate,
but I don't feel she is going to be much real *help*, if you know what I mean.
She is also someone who has *major* horrific issues going back to her early
childhood, and she is just naturally more focussed on fixing herself than in
expending much energy on guiding a person whom she hasn't seen in 15 or so
years (needy though I may be!!)

Thanks for your thoughts!
Vaney
to email, simplify...

"...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
Lord Peter Wimsey

[Yankee Rebel]

"MB" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1095931690.22973.0@lotis.uk.clara.net...
>
>
>
> "Vaney" <vanegirl@aol.complicated> wrote in message
> news:20040922215828.21613.00001103@mb-m10.aol.com...
> > Hey people,
> >
> > I've been lurking here quite some time. I've been encouraged by
lots of
> posts,
> > and my intention is strong (to quit drinking) but so far I'm not
> successful.
> > I've had meeting after meeting after meeting with my HP, but the
answer
> I'm
> > getting is that there is no help forthcoming from that direction. I
have
> to do
> > this all alone, and that scares the shit out of me. Why my HP is
keeping
> aloof
> > is quite beyond me, except that I have always had to depend only on
> myself;
> > perhaps the lack of safety-net in my life precludes any strong
confidence
> in
> > the HP being on my side.
>
> I can't comment on the HP aspect as my experience of alcoholism has
never
> involved looking outside of myself for the cause or the cure. Sorry if
that
> offends anyone, but when I was quitting the bottle I believed that "I
got
> myself in this mess, I must get myself out."
>
> >
> > The strange thing is that I am *very* sure that I have a HP, and
that I am
> > being observed by Him/Her, but my appeal for real help is met with
> > indifference. I must say here that (at least in my community) AA
meetings
> are
> > not an option. There are privacy/secrecy issues, and here the HP ID
is
> > primarily Christian, of which group I am not a member. I really
just want
> an
> > initial boost, a few days of respite, or a sign that some f***ing
body is
> > listening.
>
> Ditto.
>
> >
> > My MO is one bottle of wine every evening, alone in my little house.
> Initially
> > I was a Jack Daniel's fan, and used in order to be able to sleep. I
don't
> know
> > if I'm an alcoholic or just a "problem drinker" (ah, what denial
fantasies
> THAT
> > phrase conjures up!). When I read about people drinking a fifth of
vodka
> every
> > day, I allow myself to think that I'm not so bad, y'know? But I am
> obsessing
> > about this drinking. I am pissed off every morning, and I debate my
trip
> to
> > the liquor store every day - yes or no? which date should I pick to
quit?
> is
> > the same clerk there that checked me out yesterday, and what does he
> think? I
> > mean, this is totally out of hand. No one who knows me would
suspect that
> this
> > conflict is breaking me up - I have been quite careful to maintain a
> productive
> > and well-managed lifestyle - no major blips, no embarrassing scenes.
>
> My MO was a full 75cl bottle of cheap (but full strength) vodka per
day -
> sometimes more. I drank alone and in secret (or so I thought!) What
you say
> about the liquor store is very true - what were the staff there
thinking
> when I turned up every morning at 8am for a bottle of spirits???
>

Just buy a case.
Then do not go to the same place.
You might have to drive to the next town so nobody will see you.

voodoo disease 666

[Yankee Rebel]

"Vaney" <vanegirl@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20040924101031.02895.00000037@mb-m01.aol.com...
> Cheggers wrote:
>
>
> >Since they come in different sizes, how big's that
> >bottle of wine Vaney? I used to like the heavier one.
>
> Well, in the name of economy I usually buy the 1.5 liter Almaden
Chardonnay,
> but I only drink half of it. (On occasion I've been known to add an
extra
> glass). I haven't bought the giant jug for ages. The 5-liter box is
really
> the best deal, but it's like an unlimited keg, so I avoid it. My
usual is 4
> glasses from 6:00 or so until 11:00, all filled with ice (I use a
tumbler,
> nothing so elegant as an actual wine glass).

Just do bongs.

Who needs to be a stinking puking capitalist scumsucking drunk.

voodoo disease 666

[Yankee Rebel]

"Vaney" <vanegirl@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20040924102818.02895.00000040@mb-m01.aol.com...
> MB said:
>
> >The original poster suggested they were going to try to dry out at
home
> >alone - I do not believe that would be a good idea. In my experience,
a
> >person withdrawing from alcohol needs some level of supervision. The
OP also
> >seemed to be reluctant to share their problem with another person - I
> >believe sharing actually helps the alcoholic confront their problems.
>
> Actually, I HAVE shared my anxieties with one other person - an old,
old school
> friend with whom I reconnected at a class reunion. I found out she
hasn't had
> a drink in 17 years, did the AA thing. This piqued my interest, and
we had

Yea well I quit drinking 20+ years ago. I didn't even finish a 12 pack
when George Bush and the secret service kidnapped and drugged me in the
Florida Keys.

I have been trying to get this goddamned microchip out of my back since
then.

> some good conversations, but she was only able to offer thoughts like,
"you'll
> quit when you're sick and tired of being sick and tired," and
"quitting is
> simple but it's not easy" It's nice to know there's someone who can
relate,
> but I don't feel she is going to be much real *help*, if you know what
I mean.
> She is also someone who has *major* horrific issues going back to her
early
> childhood, and she is just naturally more focussed on fixing herself
than in

You know, alot of christian jew cops were sexually molested by thier
religious parents.


> expending much energy on guiding a person whom she hasn't seen in 15
or so
> years (needy though I may be!!)
>
> Thanks for your thoughts!
> Vaney
> to email, simplify...
>
> "...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no
object..."
> Lord Peter
Wimsey
>
>

[JB]

"Vaney" <vanegirl@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20040924102818.02895.00000040@mb-m01.aol.com...
> MB said:
>
> >The original poster suggested they were going to try to dry out at
home
> >alone - I do not believe that would be a good idea. In my
experience, a
> >person withdrawing from alcohol needs some level of supervision.
The OP also
> >seemed to be reluctant to share their problem with another person -
I
> >believe sharing actually helps the alcoholic confront their
problems.
>
> Actually, I HAVE shared my anxieties with one other person - an old,
old school
> friend with whom I reconnected at a class reunion.

Hi there,

If you decide to take the AA route to recovery - ie it's 12 Step
programme - maybe you will find yourself greatly benefitting from it.

ATB

JB

[Bobby L]

"Vaney" <vanegirl@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20040922215828.21613.00001103@mb-m10.aol.com...
> Hey people,
>
> I've been lurking here quite some time. I've been encouraged by lots of
posts,
> and my intention is strong (to quit drinking) but so far I'm not
successful.
> I've had meeting after meeting after meeting with my HP, but the answer
I'm
> getting is that there is no help forthcoming from that direction. I have
to do
> this all alone, and that scares the shit out of me. Why my HP is keeping
aloof
> is quite beyond me, except that I have always had to depend only on
myself;
> perhaps the lack of safety-net in my life precludes any strong confidence
in
> the HP being on my side.
>
> The strange thing is that I am *very* sure that I have a HP, and that I am
> being observed by Him/Her, but my appeal for real help is met with
> indifference. I must say here that (at least in my community) AA meetings
are
> not an option. There are privacy/secrecy issues, and here the HP ID is
> primarily Christian, of which group I am not a member. I really just want
an
> initial boost, a few days of respite, or a sign that some f***ing body is
> listening.
>
> My MO is one bottle of wine every evening, alone in my little house.
Initially
> I was a Jack Daniel's fan, and used in order to be able to sleep. I don't
know
> if I'm an alcoholic or just a "problem drinker" (ah, what denial fantasies
THAT
> phrase conjures up!). When I read about people drinking a fifth of vodka
every
> day, I allow myself to think that I'm not so bad, y'know? But I am
obsessing
> about this drinking. I am pissed off every morning, and I debate my trip
to
> the liquor store every day - yes or no? which date should I pick to quit?
is
> the same clerk there that checked me out yesterday, and what does he
think? I
> mean, this is totally out of hand. No one who knows me would suspect that
this
> conflict is breaking me up - I have been quite careful to maintain a
productive
> and well-managed lifestyle - no major blips, no embarrassing scenes.
>
> Anyway, that's my story and I'll appreciate any advice you're willing to
give.
> I have never until today actually "spoken" with anyone about this dilemma;
I'm
> a total newbie. I know that I need to quit drinking alone and at home.
Can I
> drink socially? Will rules like that work? What should I do? I'm an
open
> book here - all help will be taken gratefully and considered with an open
mind.
>
> Anyway, to all you unknown and well-known posters, my various best wishes,
> congratulations, questions and requests for counsel.
>
> Thank you in advance ~
> Vaney
> to email, simplify...
>
> "...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
> Lord Peter Wimsey
>


Sounds familiar. Once I prayed for solutions... Not just any solution, but
a solution of my understanding. Today I just ask for help to

1- trust god
2- clean house
3- be a service to those around me.

That seems to "help" more than I can describe.

Bobby L


>

[Cheggers]

Blue Moon <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<1096071391.4O/TS53d0Xe5rsMMzZSOuQ@teranews>...
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:01:57 -0700, "Fred Exley" <fexly221@msn.com>
> wrote:
>
> > LOT'S of extra money in your pocket!

Yeah, don't make promises you can't keep, Exley!

I spent a long time just about paying the bills not really knowing I
was an alkie. Then I got rich (relatively) and then poor again
(relatively). I'm currently richer (relatively) and waiting to
discover how much poorer I may become in a shake-up, and most of all
that wasn't about the booze. It was just about economics and skills
and life.

I never bought lottery tickets though. Always figured I'd be dead
pretty soon after a big win. Or even a moderate one. ;-)

Best,

Cheggs

[Cheggers]

vanegirl@aol.complicated (Vaney) wrote in message news:<20040924101031.02895.00000037@mb-m01.aol.com>...
> Cheggers wrote:
>
>
> >Since they come in different sizes, how big's that
> >bottle of wine Vaney? I used to like the heavier one.
>
> Well, in the name of economy I usually buy the 1.5 liter Almaden Chardonnay,
> but I only drink half of it. (On occasion I've been known to add an extra
> glass). I haven't bought the giant jug for ages. The 5-liter box is really
> the best deal, but it's like an unlimited keg, so I avoid it. My usual is 4
> glasses from 6:00 or so until 11:00, all filled with ice (I use a tumbler,
> nothing so elegant as an actual wine glass).
>
> Vaney
> to email, simplify...
>
> "...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
> Lord Peter Wimsey

Elegant signature quotes but plain old tumblers, eh? If you're sure
you need a higher power to help you stop drinking the equivalent of a
75cl bottle of wine a night then there are plenty folks in here who'll
guide you.

I kinda like science, too, though. What happens when you stop drinking
that bottle of wine a night? I presume you've tried and failed by the
fact that you're posting here, but relative to my preferred intake, a
standard bottle of vino of an evening's a pretty quiet night. You'd
have been in bed long before I was turning the TV off...

If you haven't tried stopping, why not try it and see what happens? It
might not be much more than three nights of slightly broken sleep and
a gentle readjustment. Especially given the ice and your preferred
drinking timeframe, which, unless you're a person of uncannily small
stature, suggests you'd be unlikely to routinely experience
exceptionally high levels of blood-alcohol.

And... if you can't stop, and it really IS a problem, then there's
loads of help and lots of hope.

I'm not a doctor and I'm not in any way qualified to judge your
situation. You just don't sound as much like your Subject Line would
suggest. But only you know best.

Cheggs
Who wonders whether higher powers don't waste their infinite powers
where they may not be really needed.

[Vaney]

Cheggers wrote:


>I kinda like science, too, though. What happens when you stop drinking
>that bottle of wine a night? I presume you've tried and failed by the
>fact that you're posting here, but relative to my preferred intake, a
>standard bottle of vino of an evening's a pretty quiet night. You'd
>have been in bed long before I was turning the TV off...
>
>If you haven't tried stopping, why not try it and see what happens? It
>might not be much more than three nights of slightly broken sleep and
>a gentle readjustment. Especially given the ice and your preferred
>drinking timeframe, which, unless you're a person of uncannily small
>stature, suggests you'd be unlikely to routinely experience
>exceptionally high levels of blood-alcohol.

Y'know, I have to say I *have* tried. And succeeded, too, if I stalled and
puttered long enough that the liquor store would be closed (just recently they
opened one here in PA that stays open until TEN at night and also opens on
Sunday <groan>). But the next day I would repair the error of my ways.

I am not a small person, 5'6" and 135 lbs - just lost 10 pounds!!!! - and I get
cosily toasted on my bottle. I have always been able to drink quite a lot and
keep conversant and mobile, (you should have seen me in my youth!) and this
awful little habit is just my way of getting ready for bed. One time I was on
some medication for an infection, and it must act like Antabuse, one goes
*immediately* to Barf City if you take even one drink, they told me. So I was
alcohol-free for something like 16 days, and I was amazed at how (relatively)
easy it was to abstain when faced with dire illness as an alternative. Didn't
last, though. So there *must* be a problem. And I can't say it doesn't affect
my life, either. I find myself settling down with a good book and slurp away
the evening, way too often. Every night. I mean, the cats get fed and the
place stays clean, but the ironing (grrrrrrr) is piling up and I haven't paid
attention to any of my hobbies in a long, long time.

I know my problem must seem like small beans to some of you guys - I've lurked
long enough to get as much of your stories as you've posted here - but it's
still a pretty big problem for me. I've read that when you obsess, it's a
"Sign". Well, I don't obsess about drinking - I can figure out all my little
details pretty much on auto-pilot - but I'm starting to obsess about
*quitting*, and the more I think about it, the longer I put it off. "I'll quit
tomorrow" and then tomorrow is just such a pisser of a day that I really want
the relaxation, etc, etc, etc. It's as though my mind knows the ol' relaxer is
on its way out and arranges things just to mess up my plans.

Anyway, enough. Thanks for all your thoughtfulness. I'm not givin' up.

Vaney
to email, simplify...

"...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
Lord Peter Wimsey

[Vaney]

<Not bothering to quote ridiculous nasty responses>

I am constantly amazed by the number of complete idiots the world contains.
Not being one (I am only a *partial* idiot, and then only once in a while) I am
just sorry that they can 1) read well enough to read this group and 2) pull
themselves up out of their sludge long enough to post here. My goodness.

Vaney
who utters a long stream of horrible invective, full of sailor-quality swear
words, but only in the privacy of her house and in the presence of two
bewildered cats (who head under the bed).
to email, simplify...

"...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
Lord Peter Wimsey

[Dan McGown]

> "...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
> Lord Peter Wimsey


I believe that I have read everything that Dorothy Sayers ever
published. Apart from the books, I have Wimsey stories on audiotapes and
DVDs. Lord Peter was the example that a man could be witty, urbane,
tasteful, thoughtful and decent without being gay. I consider him to be the
first "metrosexual."
Unfortunately, I spent a lot of time trying to emulate his appreciation
of wines. Of course later in my life, I also emulated his earlier
shell-shock. In my case, though, it wasn't a war but only a woman.
Anyway, please give some thought to passing on the drinking. Some of us
have done so and are glad of it.
Dan

[Vaney]

>I believe that I have read everything that Dorothy Sayers ever
>published. Apart from the books, I have Wimsey stories on audiotapes and
>DVDs. Lord Peter was the example that a man could be witty, urbane,
>tasteful, thoughtful and decent without being gay. I consider him to be the
>first "metrosexual."
> Unfortunately, I spent a lot of time trying to emulate his appreciation
>of wines. Of course later in my life, I also emulated his earlier
>shell-shock. In my case, though, it wasn't a war but only a woman.
> Anyway, please give some thought to passing on the drinking. Some of us
>have done so and are glad of it.
> Dan
>

My yearly (or so) re-readings of the Wimsey books constitutes one of the great
pleasures of my life. Would that you could see my tattered copies,
well-thumbed and lovingly preserved! Edward Petherbridge portrayed him better
than anyone heretofore (IMHO) and Harriet, too, was all that I could have
wished in casting. Sayers' scholarship and writing opened a whole world to me,
that of quality and integrity. Fortunately, with this pre-requisite, I am able
to recognise new quality when I see it, but it will never take the place of the
first good stuff I ever read.

Have you read The Mind of the Maker? It has been some years since I have done,
but a book-journal entry I made when I read it testifies to the excellence of
it (Christianity notwithstanding - Sayers was one of those wonderful militant
Xtians, along with C S Lewis, but I never quite needed *that*). I have it on
my bookshelf - I think I will get it out again.

I, too, can relate to Lord Peter's shellshock. I never quite quivered in the
darkness, or couldn't decide whether or not to turn on the light, but I have
hidden from from demons of my own, safe and secure behind my tumbler of wine
and ice.

I think I will try to stop for one day. Just to see how good or bad it is or
isn't. And then I might try one more. I will let you know.

Thanks again, just for being here in space. You're a bigger comfort than you
know.

(And *that* should bring the trolls out in force...those idiots without a
village...)

Vaney
to email, simplify...

"...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
Lord Peter Wimsey

[Cheggers]

vanegirl@aol.complicated (Vaney) wrote in message news:<20040927200418.13228.00001166@mb-m12.aol.com>...

> Y'know, I have to say I *have* tried. And succeeded, too, if I stalled and
> puttered long enough that the liquor store would be closed (just recently they
> opened one here in PA that stays open until TEN at night and also opens on
> Sunday <groan>). But the next day I would repair the error of my ways.

Yep. Done that one, too. But then I discovered that the next county
sells 24/6, so I was reduced to one potential night of miserable
sobriety. I posted here recently I'd discovered a stat that about 50%
of booze revenue comes from alcohol abusers. If the stores opened for
just three hours daily, I'd wager revenues would barely falter.
Anyway...

> I am not a small person, 5'6" and 135 lbs - just lost 10 pounds!!!! - and I get
> cosily toasted on my bottle. I have always been able to drink quite a lot and
> keep conversant and mobile, (you should have seen me in my youth!) and this
> awful little habit is just my way of getting ready for bed.

Not to belabor my earlier point, but your blood alcohol levels are not
likely to be particularly high at any given point of the evening in
view of all you say.

Since the conventional wisdom on addiction makes tolerance one of its
central tenets, your (admittedly) regular but low-level and apparently
reasonably fixed intake are indications that any problem you decide
you have puts you in a better position than many others. Better a wart
than a cancer.

> One time I was on
> some medication for an infection, and it must act like Antabuse, one goes
> *immediately* to Barf City if you take even one drink, they told me. So I was
> alcohol-free for something like 16 days, and I was amazed at how (relatively)
> easy it was to abstain when faced with dire illness as an alternative.

Funny you should mention this, Vaney. I've had two nasty infections in
probably six years.

The first one I drank through. Booze plus the particular antibiotic I
was prescribed did not a trip to spewsville necessitate, but alcohol
cut the antibiotic's effectiveness. I chose, in effect, to lengthen
the treatment time and hence prolong the pain by continuing to drink
during that time.

The second one I was abstinent before, during and after. And, for the
record, I was on Antabuse at the time. The episode was a revelation to
me; I thought that Antabuse *was* an antibiotic which just had that
serendipitous vomitorium side effect. Evidently not.

But you can stop for sixteen days when the alternative is suffering.
Well, the big book says something about people like you and JB I hope
will fill you in on the details, because she's good with references.
It kinda fits/defines your 'category' quite well.

Didn't
> last, though. So there *must* be a problem. And I can't say it doesn't affect
> my life, either. I find myself settling down with a good book and slurp away
> the evening, way too often. Every night. I mean, the cats get fed and the
> place stays clean, but the ironing (grrrrrrr) is piling up and I haven't paid
> attention to any of my hobbies in a long, long time.
>
> I know my problem must seem like small beans to some of you guys - I've lurked
> long enough to get as much of your stories as you've posted here - but it's
> still a pretty big problem for me. I've read that when you obsess, it's a
> "Sign". Well, I don't obsess about drinking - I can figure out all my little
> details pretty much on auto-pilot - but I'm starting to obsess about
> *quitting*, and the more I think about it, the longer I put it off. "I'll quit
> tomorrow" and then tomorrow is just such a pisser of a day that I really want
> the relaxation, etc, etc, etc. It's as though my mind knows the ol' relaxer is
> on its way out and arranges things just to mess up my plans.

Vaney, if you think it's a problem, it's a problem. And any medic in
the country would agree that you're a bit over the couple of drinks a
day that are supposed to be beneficial (to the health of those who do
not have drink problems, naturally).

However, since your tangible net loss so far is an unhappiness with
your habit and a pile of crumpled ironing, I vote that you go with
Robert McGregor's suggestion and look into moderation management.

That would entail a supported period of re-adjustment (thirty days off
the booze if memory serves) and then drinking under rules that might
leave you content enough to be no longer obsessed with quitting.

And if you still want to quit, then do it. You'll still get plenty of
support around here whether you drink a bottle of wine a night or a
bottle of scotch. You might not have as many war stories to tell but
I'd be willing to guess that the quitting process is much the same at
its roots for pack-a-day smokers as it is two pack-a-day smokers. And,
hell - more power to ya for quitting while you're ahead. More or less,
anyway!

Hey - any chance of a discount on a nice Amish-built bedframe from
that drink-starved community of yours?

All good wishes and a little friendly mischief,

Cheggs.
Who didn't preview this post because its late and he's cranky and he
apologizes.

[rosie readandpost]

: Funny you should mention this, Vaney. I've had two nasty
infections in
: probably six years.
:

i use to BELIEVE that all the booze i drank, KILLED the germs i came
into contact with!
(ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, the alcoholic mind and its rationalization!)





: The first one I drank through. Booze plus the particular
antibiotic I
: was prescribed did not a trip to spewsville necessitate, but
alcohol
: cut the antibiotic's effectiveness. I chose, in effect, to
lengthen
: the treatment time and hence prolong the pain by continuing to
drink
: during that time.
:
: The second one I was abstinent before, during and after. And, for
the
: record, I was on Antabuse at the time. The episode was a
revelation to
: me; I thought that Antabuse *was* an antibiotic which just had
that
: serendipitous vomitorium side effect. Evidently not.
:
: But you can stop for sixteen days when the alternative is
suffering.
: Well, the big book says something about people like you and JB I
hope
: will fill you in on the details, because she's good with
references.
: It kinda fits/defines your 'category' quite well.
:
: Didn't
: > last, though. So there *must* be a problem. And I can't say it
doesn't affect
: > my life, either. I find myself settling down with a good book
and slurp away
: > the evening, way too often. Every night. I mean, the cats get
fed and the
: > place stays clean, but the ironing (grrrrrrr) is piling up and I
haven't paid
: > attention to any of my hobbies in a long, long time.
: >
: > I know my problem must seem like small beans to some of you
guys - I've lurked
: > long enough to get as much of your stories as you've posted
here - but it's
: > still a pretty big problem for me. I've read that when you
obsess, it's a
: > "Sign". Well, I don't obsess about drinking - I can figure out
all my little
: > details pretty much on auto-pilot - but I'm starting to obsess
about
: > *quitting*, and the more I think about it, the longer I put it
off. "I'll quit
: > tomorrow" and then tomorrow is just such a pisser of a day that
I really want
: > the relaxation, etc, etc, etc. It's as though my mind knows the
ol' relaxer is
: > on its way out and arranges things just to mess up my plans.
:
: Vaney, if you think it's a problem, it's a problem. And any medic
in
: the country would agree that you're a bit over the couple of
drinks a
: day that are supposed to be beneficial (to the health of those who
do
: not have drink problems, naturally).
:
: However, since your tangible net loss so far is an unhappiness
with
: your habit and a pile of crumpled ironing, I vote that you go with
: Robert McGregor's suggestion and look into moderation management.
:
: That would entail a supported period of re-adjustment (thirty days
off
: the booze if memory serves) and then drinking under rules that
might
: leave you content enough to be no longer obsessed with quitting.
:
: And if you still want to quit, then do it. You'll still get plenty
of
: support around here whether you drink a bottle of wine a night or
a
: bottle of scotch. You might not have as many war stories to tell
but
: I'd be willing to guess that the quitting process is much the same
at
: its roots for pack-a-day smokers as it is two pack-a-day smokers.
And,
: hell - more power to ya for quitting while you're ahead. More or
less,
: anyway!
:
: Hey - any chance of a discount on a nice Amish-built bedframe from
: that drink-starved community of yours?
:
: All good wishes and a little friendly mischief,
:
: Cheggs.
: Who didn't preview this post because its late and he's cranky and
he
: apologizes.

[Cheggers]

" rosie readandpost" <readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Y7d6d.66169$6h7.2116@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>...
> : Funny you should mention this, Vaney. I've had two nasty
> infections in
> : probably six years.
> :
>
> i use to BELIEVE that all the booze i drank, KILLED the germs i came
> into contact with!
> (ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, the alcoholic mind and its rationalization!)
>

I kinda would still believe it, Rosie. Not sure I'd ever eat an oyster
sober. Just to be on the safe side... ;-) (and only about half
joking, I'm embarrassed to admit).

Cheggs

[rosie readandpost]

: I kinda would still believe it, Rosie. Not sure I'd ever eat an
oyster
: sober. Just to be on the safe side... ;-) (and only about half
: joking, I'm embarrassed to admit).
:
: Cheggs

:)

[Mias]

Hi Vaney
Has drinking brought you happiness? If not - give AA a chance for 5% of the
time that you had given booze thus far. I can almost gaurantee you that
should you discover that you might be an alcoholic in AA you will also
discover happiness, that does not go away in the morning.
Try something different.

If you do the same as you have always done you will get the same results you
always had.
If you want what winners have you must do what winners do. (Look for a
winner somewhere and follow him/her)

Kind regards
Mias

"Vaney" <vanegirl@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20040922215828.21613.00001103@mb-m10.aol.com...
> Hey people,
>
> I've been lurking here quite some time. I've been encouraged by lots of
> posts,
> and my intention is strong (to quit drinking) but so far I'm not
> successful.
> I've had meeting after meeting after meeting with my HP, but the answer
> I'm
> getting is that there is no help forthcoming from that direction. I have
> to do
> this all alone, and that scares the shit out of me. Why my HP is keeping
> aloof
> is quite beyond me, except that I have always had to depend only on
> myself;
> perhaps the lack of safety-net in my life precludes any strong confidence
> in
> the HP being on my side.
>
> The strange thing is that I am *very* sure that I have a HP, and that I am
> being observed by Him/Her, but my appeal for real help is met with
> indifference. I must say here that (at least in my community) AA meetings
> are
> not an option. There are privacy/secrecy issues, and here the HP ID is
> primarily Christian, of which group I am not a member. I really just want
> an
> initial boost, a few days of respite, or a sign that some f***ing body is
> listening.
>
> My MO is one bottle of wine every evening, alone in my little house.
> Initially
> I was a Jack Daniel's fan, and used in order to be able to sleep. I don't
> know
> if I'm an alcoholic or just a "problem drinker" (ah, what denial fantasies
> THAT
> phrase conjures up!). When I read about people drinking a fifth of vodka
> every
> day, I allow myself to think that I'm not so bad, y'know? But I am
> obsessing
> about this drinking. I am pissed off every morning, and I debate my trip
> to
> the liquor store every day - yes or no? which date should I pick to quit?
> is
> the same clerk there that checked me out yesterday, and what does he
> think? I
> mean, this is totally out of hand. No one who knows me would suspect that
> this
> conflict is breaking me up - I have been quite careful to maintain a
> productive
> and well-managed lifestyle - no major blips, no embarrassing scenes.
>
> Anyway, that's my story and I'll appreciate any advice you're willing to
> give.
> I have never until today actually "spoken" with anyone about this dilemma;
> I'm
> a total newbie. I know that I need to quit drinking alone and at home.
> Can I
> drink socially? Will rules like that work? What should I do? I'm an
> open
> book here - all help will be taken gratefully and considered with an open
> mind.
>
> Anyway, to all you unknown and well-known posters, my various best wishes,
> congratulations, questions and requests for counsel.
>
> Thank you in advance ~
> Vaney
> to email, simplify...
>
> "...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
> Lord Peter Wimsey
>
>

[[[]]]

> If you do the same as you have always done you will get the same results
> you
> always had.

Mias- Funny, this simply idea took me 'almost forever' to get.
....rats in a maze learn faster.

-Steve

[Dan McGown]

> If you do the same as you have always done you will get the same results
> you always had.

In my relapse prevention program, while I was a guest of the county, the
other guests were less literate; so the counsellor just said: "Do what you
did and you'll get what you got."

[datsright2000@yahoo.com]

Hey,
I am here, experiencing the same sh@t as you.
I think I can go it alone. I don't know.
So far, as a Christian, I have not been miraculously released by my
habits.

But I do think that God frequently will challenge us to rise up and
beyond our problem to build spiritual strength.

I can do this, I can find the power to control it. So I say.

I am watching my mother die from the same thing, only with cigarettes.
Don't bother saying it isn't the same. it is.
Any time you are telling someone "I will quit, honest!" But inside
thinking "No, not really", that is the big signal. You are F-ed up.

Totally F-ed up? Well, I still believe in myself. I still think I can
get away from this. I actually said and believed that I can and will
get this out of my soul, I can identify the pattern of thought that
causes addiction and diffuse it.

Well, I am off to finish my beer. I would say good luck, but we all
know that is BS, God's help then. We need it. To stabilize ourselves
so we can be some good to someone else.

[Dem Feckers]

"Vaney" <vanegirl@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20040927202432.13228.00001167@mb-m12.aol.com...
> <Not bothering to quote ridiculous nasty responses>
>
> I am constantly amazed by the number of complete idiots the world
contains.
> Not being one (I am only a *partial* idiot, and then only once in a
while) I am
> just sorry that they can 1) read well enough to read this group and 2)
pull
> themselves up out of their sludge long enough to post here. My
goodness.
>
> Vaney
> who utters a long stream of horrible invective, full of sailor-quality
swear
> words, but only in the privacy of her house and in the presence of two
> bewildered cats (who head under the bed).
> to email, simplify...
>
> "...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no
object..."
> Lord Peter
Wimsey

I said no nasty responses, butt if you insist. You can take your
goddamned tory Lord and shove him up your ass.

Her old man probably shoved his fist up her ass which is probably what
your goddamned capitalist scum sucking intellectual ass needs.

So as for crying in your beer, fuck tat
what I hope for is a civil war so I could legally kill ass maggots like
you to get the freedom and respect I deserve.

"...Exterminate the christian jew cop government..."
Dem Feckers Esquire