Agent_Orange
07-16-2003, 10:11 PM
Dan Ballance <DanBallance@noSpamexcite.com> wrote in message news:<5vr6fv46tvcf1a17mhdfi9g1naomp1t124@4ax.com>...
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:17:40 -0400, Bill <sorrynospam@spamless.org>
> wrote:
>
> >So are 12 step groups CULTS or not?
>
> i guess a cult that saves lives by keeping people sober/drug free may
> have a place anyway. Maybe you need a cult to come out of some levels
> of addiction.
>
> i went to an NA meeting on tuesday, bloke who took the meeting only
> had one leg, lost the other from injecting in his groin. He was quite
> convinced NA had saved hi life. He hadn't bought the whole package,
> was skeptical about a higher power (5 year member). Not sure he cared
> if it was a cult or not - he was alive.
I've often wondered whether a good cult could be of
help in saving alcoholics. That experiment was even
tried a couple of times. The organizations were called
The People's Temple of Jim Jones and Synanon, run by
Chuck Dederich.
Both actually had very successful programs for getting
people off of drugs and alcohol, for a while...
Both were disasters in the long run.
See:
http://aorange1.tripod.com/orange-effectiveness.html#JimJones
Also, there is the problem of A.A.'s abysmally bad success
rate. The fact that you know a few blokes who are convinced
that A.A. or N.A. saved their lives does not mean that
it did, or that the program works. Read the rest of that
"Effectiveness" file.
* agent_orange@linuxmail.org *
* AA and Recovery Cult Debunking *
* http://aorange1.tripod.com/ *
* Heisenberg said, "I'm not really sure if *
* that even was Shrödinger's cat. I think *
* he might have used somebody else's cat..." *
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:17:40 -0400, Bill <sorrynospam@spamless.org>
> wrote:
>
> >So are 12 step groups CULTS or not?
>
> i guess a cult that saves lives by keeping people sober/drug free may
> have a place anyway. Maybe you need a cult to come out of some levels
> of addiction.
>
> i went to an NA meeting on tuesday, bloke who took the meeting only
> had one leg, lost the other from injecting in his groin. He was quite
> convinced NA had saved hi life. He hadn't bought the whole package,
> was skeptical about a higher power (5 year member). Not sure he cared
> if it was a cult or not - he was alive.
I've often wondered whether a good cult could be of
help in saving alcoholics. That experiment was even
tried a couple of times. The organizations were called
The People's Temple of Jim Jones and Synanon, run by
Chuck Dederich.
Both actually had very successful programs for getting
people off of drugs and alcohol, for a while...
Both were disasters in the long run.
See:
http://aorange1.tripod.com/orange-effectiveness.html#JimJones
Also, there is the problem of A.A.'s abysmally bad success
rate. The fact that you know a few blokes who are convinced
that A.A. or N.A. saved their lives does not mean that
it did, or that the program works. Read the rest of that
"Effectiveness" file.
* agent_orange@linuxmail.org *
* AA and Recovery Cult Debunking *
* http://aorange1.tripod.com/ *
* Heisenberg said, "I'm not really sure if *
* that even was Shrödinger's cat. I think *
* he might have used somebody else's cat..." *