Anthropomorphisms?

[xian]

Just a trivial question - how do you 'see' your alcoholism?

Dan McG mentioned "the demon", and it made me think about that. In
the novel "Infinite Jest" by David Foster Wallace, a lot of the story
takes place in the AA community, both in meetings and in a recovery
house. One of the characters refers to his alcoholism as "The Spider"
because his sponsor did. He also kind of visually sees it as a grim
reaper-type figure waiting for someone to slip up so it can pull them
into the void.

I tend to personalize my problem because it makes it easier to fight.
I get mad because "the booze" is trying to get me to drink, and as a
result I try harder not to. Like when I start thinking that it would
be ok to share a bottle of champagne on a *really* special occasion.
Nice try.

Just wondering how other people refer to their situation.

("Infinite Jest" is where I learned a lot about AA, and dealing with
alcoholism, so it was a big help to me. It's extremely long, though,
so it takes a big commitment. :-) )

--
xian
www.simpleworldmusic.com
simpleworld - we're not a religion, we're a rock band

[rosie readandpost]

i "see" my alcoholism as a disease.
no more, no less.


--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

never let yesterday use up too much of today.
...........................anonymous



"xian" <xianREMOVE@simpleworldmusic.com> wrote in message news:7788hv055dsnlrkppthtc1bm7b3b21gqhf@4ax.com...
> Just a trivial question - how do you 'see' your alcoholism?
>
> Dan McG mentioned "the demon", and it made me think about that. In
> the novel "Infinite Jest" by David Foster Wallace, a lot of the story
> takes place in the AA community, both in meetings and in a recovery
> house. One of the characters refers to his alcoholism as "The Spider"
> because his sponsor did. He also kind of visually sees it as a grim
> reaper-type figure waiting for someone to slip up so it can pull them
> into the void.
>
> I tend to personalize my problem because it makes it easier to fight.
> I get mad because "the booze" is trying to get me to drink, and as a
> result I try harder not to. Like when I start thinking that it would
> be ok to share a bottle of champagne on a *really* special occasion.
> Nice try.
>
> Just wondering how other people refer to their situation.
>
> ("Infinite Jest" is where I learned a lot about AA, and dealing with
> alcoholism, so it was a big help to me. It's extremely long, though,
> so it takes a big commitment. :-) )
>
> --
> xian
> www.simpleworldmusic.com
> simpleworld - we're not a religion, we're a rock band

[catsruleok]

"xian" <xianREMOVE@simpleworldmusic.com> wrote in message
news:7788hv055dsnlrkppthtc1bm7b3b21gqhf@4ax.com...
> Just a trivial question - how do you 'see' your alcoholism?
>
> Dan McG mentioned "the demon", and it made me think about that. In
> the novel "Infinite Jest" by David Foster Wallace, a lot of the story
> takes place in the AA community, both in meetings and in a recovery
> house. One of the characters refers to his alcoholism as "The Spider"
> because his sponsor did. He also kind of visually sees it as a grim
> reaper-type figure waiting for someone to slip up so it can pull them
> into the void.
>
> I tend to personalize my problem because it makes it easier to fight.
> I get mad because "the booze" is trying to get me to drink, and as a
> result I try harder not to. Like when I start thinking that it would
> be ok to share a bottle of champagne on a *really* special occasion.
> Nice try.
>
> Just wondering how other people refer to their situation.

<snip>

xian

As "a pain in the arse" :^))

JB

[Michael Rapp]

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:57:25 -0700, xian
<xianREMOVE@simpleworldmusic.com> wrote:

>Just a trivial question - how do you 'see' your alcoholism?
------
when talking to other people, I refer to my alcoholism as a kind of
allergy - I react strongly and badly to it and so explain my peculiar
diet.
For myself, I haven't personalized my disease, I pay a lot of
attention to my well- being, especially in my mind and soul.
Michael.

[My Name]

"catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in
news:bf1t3u$s03$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk:

> Hi again Xian,
>
> After giving you a flippant answer, here is my considered
> response.
>
> I think of my alcholism as a ticking time bomb that could
> easily go off without warning at any time.
>
> JB

Interjection, if may.
As opposed to thinking of it as a "ticking time bomb", which
inevitably must needs go off, unless it is a dud.
That would be a setup for failure if you see my point.
How about a "booby trap" which could be judiciously avoided,
found, and disarmed.

--
You know that some people are different.
Now ain't that a crying shame.
Wouldn't it be a real drag, if we were all the same.
Savoy Brown

[Robert McGregor]

"My Name" <no@e-mail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93B9C77FC4ECAMyIdToken@walks.like.a.duck.. .
> "catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in
> news:bf1t3u$s03$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk:
>
> > Hi again Xian,
> >
> > After giving you a flippant answer, here is my considered
> > response.
> >
> > I think of my alcholism as a ticking time bomb that could
> > easily go off without warning at any time.
> >
> > JB
>
> Interjection, if may.
> As opposed to thinking of it as a "ticking time bomb", which
> inevitably must needs go off, unless it is a dud.
> That would be a setup for failure if you see my point.
> How about a "booby trap" which could be judiciously avoided,
> found, and disarmed.
>
> --

When you have judiciously found, and disarmed, that booby trap, will you put
your solution to the market as Bill Wilson did?

Bob

[My Name]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:bf241g$a5ovj$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de:

>"My Name" <no@e-mail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93B9C77FC4ECAMyIdToken@walks.like.a.duck.. .
>> "catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in
>> news:bf1t3u$s03$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk:
>>
>> > Hi again Xian,

>> > After giving you a flippant answer, here is my
>> > considered response.

>> > I think of my alcholism as a ticking time bomb that
>> > could easily go off without warning at any time.
>> >
>> > JB

>> Interjection, if may.
>> As opposed to thinking of it as a "ticking time bomb",
>> which inevitably must needs go off, unless it is a dud.
>> That would be a setup for failure if you see my point.
>> How about a "booby trap" which could be judiciously
>> avoided, found, and disarmed.
>
> When you have judiciously found, and disarmed, that booby
> trap, will you put your solution to the market as Bill
> Wilson did?
>
> Bob

It was merely a suggestion for a different metaphor.

--
You know that some people are different.
Now ain't that a crying shame.
Wouldn't it be a real drag, if we were all the same.
Savoy Brown

[My Name]

"catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in
news:bf25dd$v7t$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk:

>"My Name" <no@e-mail.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns93B9C77FC4ECAMyIdToken@walks.like.a.duck.. .
>> "catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in
>> news:bf1t3u$s03$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk:
>>
>> > Hi again Xian,
>> >
>> > After giving you a flippant answer, here is my
>> > considered response.
>> >
>> > I think of my alcoholism as a ticking time bomb that
>> > could easily go off without warning at any time.
>> >
>> > JB
>>
>> Interjection, if may.
>> As opposed to thinking of it as a "ticking time bomb",
>> which inevitably must needs go off, unless it is a dud.
>> That would be a setup for failure if you see my point.
>> How about a "booby trap" which could be judiciously
>> avoided, found, and disarmed.
>
> Not necessarily. The bomb can be prevented from going off
> if the alcoholic calls in the bomb squad (eg AA) as soon as
> he discovers it. So bomb squad = Higher Power. .
> Also, if alcholism is thought of as either a ticking time
> bomb or a booby trap, as you suggest, then it will alert
> the alcoholic who wants to survive, to the essential need
> to remain alert while in its presence.
>
> Does that make sense ?
>
> JB

Sure, I'm fine with it.

--
You know that some people are different.
Now ain't that a crying shame.
Wouldn't it be a real drag, if we were all the same.
Savoy Brown

[catsruleok]

"My Name" <no@e-mail.com> wrote in message news:Xns93B9C77FC4ECAMyIdToken@walks.like.a.duck.. .
> "catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in
> news:bf1t3u$s03$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk:
>
> > Hi again Xian,
> >
> > After giving you a flippant answer, here is my considered
> > response.
> >
> > I think of my alcoholism as a ticking time bomb that could
> > easily go off without warning at any time.
> >
> > JB
>
> Interjection, if may.
> As opposed to thinking of it as a "ticking time bomb", which
> inevitably must needs go off, unless it is a dud.
> That would be a setup for failure if you see my point.
> How about a "booby trap" which could be judiciously avoided,
> found, and disarmed.

Not necessarily. The bomb can be prevented from going off if the alcoholic calls in the bomb squad
(eg AA) as soon as he discovers it. So bomb squad = Higher Power.
..
Also, if alcholism is thought of as either a ticking time bomb or a booby trap, as you suggest,
then it will alert the alcoholic who wants to survive, to the essential need to remain alert while
in its presence.

Does that make sense ?

JB

[Shawster]

since my alcoholism is out there doing push-ups, waiting for me, I see it as
Jack Palance. Believe it, or not ;o)


"xian" <xianREMOVE@simpleworldmusic.com> wrote in message
news:7788hv055dsnlrkppthtc1bm7b3b21gqhf@4ax.com...
> Just a trivial question - how do you 'see' your alcoholism?
>
> Dan McG mentioned "the demon", and it made me think about that. In
> the novel "Infinite Jest" by David Foster Wallace, a lot of the story
> takes place in the AA community, both in meetings and in a recovery
> house. One of the characters refers to his alcoholism as "The Spider"
> because his sponsor did. He also kind of visually sees it as a grim
> reaper-type figure waiting for someone to slip up so it can pull them
> into the void.
>
> I tend to personalize my problem because it makes it easier to fight.
> I get mad because "the booze" is trying to get me to drink, and as a
> result I try harder not to. Like when I start thinking that it would
> be ok to share a bottle of champagne on a *really* special occasion.
> Nice try.
>
> Just wondering how other people refer to their situation.
>
> ("Infinite Jest" is where I learned a lot about AA, and dealing with
> alcoholism, so it was a big help to me. It's extremely long, though,
> so it takes a big commitment. :-) )
>
> --
> xian
> www.simpleworldmusic.com
> simpleworld - we're not a religion, we're a rock band
>

[Robert McGregor]

"xian" <xianREMOVE@simpleworldmusic.com> wrote in message
news:7788hv055dsnlrkppthtc1bm7b3b21gqhf@4ax.com...
> Just a trivial question - how do you 'see' your alcoholism?
>
> Dan McG mentioned "the demon", and it made me think about that. In
> the novel "Infinite Jest" by David Foster Wallace, a lot of the story
> takes place in the AA community, both in meetings and in a recovery
> house. One of the characters refers to his alcoholism as "The Spider"
> because his sponsor did. He also kind of visually sees it as a grim
> reaper-type figure waiting for someone to slip up so it can pull them
> into the void.
>
> I tend to personalize my problem because it makes it easier to fight.
> I get mad because "the booze" is trying to get me to drink, and as a
> result I try harder not to. Like when I start thinking that it would
> be ok to share a bottle of champagne on a *really* special occasion.
> Nice try.
>
> Just wondering how other people refer to their situation.
>
> ("Infinite Jest" is where I learned a lot about AA, and dealing with
> alcoholism, so it was a big help to me. It's extremely long, though,
> so it takes a big commitment. :-) )
>
> --
> xian
> www.simpleworldmusic.com
> simpleworld - we're not a religion, we're a rock band

At first, I regarded this as both a trivial and boring topic.

Recall my first reading of the perhaps glib statement in the book,
Alcoholics Anonymous.
http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_85.htm

"We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without
any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it.
We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as
though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected.
We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does
not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our
experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual
condition."

The 12 step formula I subscribed to http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_59.htm
starts with a declaration of powerlessness over alcohol. My psyche was at
that stage powerless against the first, let alone subsequent drinks. That
was proof enough my life, drunk *and sober* (hence the first drink,) was
unmanageable.

Intellectually, I had complied with step one. My psyche however had other
ideas. Initially, clinging to my resolution not to drink, I tormented myself
gratuitously with imaginings of why, where, how, and what alcohol I *might*
drink. Gradually, as the disciplines implicit in the steps took hold of my
psyche, I commenced the practice of discarding the first of that chain of
thoughts as soon as it entered my mind, and before any second thought in the
chain was able to surface. What was then practice is now so habitual it is
virtually instinctual.

No expert (although, as with many other things, I like/d to think I was/am)
on things of a "spiritual" nature, I adopted a simple attitude test, which
perhaps at least one reader here may find helpful. I would regularly run
through the letters of the alphabet, A to Z, writing a new ditty commencing
with each sequential letter Frequently, my mind would hesitate, reflecting
that I should not really write what had first come to mind. The subject of
that pause, and the reason for my hesitance, gave me many a clue as to what
realities I was hiding from.

Thus, by explicit action, I spread my perception of truth from my intellect
to my psyche (and attitudes.) I just call it gut level acceptance.
Therefore, it is no surprise to me that as an unforeseen side effect, I too
became neither cocky, nor afraid. I had utilised a formula (the 12 steps)
and that formula works. Arguably, countless times, *despite* my "spiritual
condition."

Today, the fact I regard myself as an alcoholic is a mere incidental in my
hopes, plans, and actions; probably on a par with the realisation I am not a
billionaire. No big deal at all, it's merely the way things are for me. I
don't buy luxury yachts, and I don't touch alcohol, it's as simple as that.

Bob.

[xian]

>
>At first, I regarded this as both a trivial and boring topic.
>
[snip]
>
>Bob.

So I take it you don't anthropomorphize. ;-)

Interesting 'A-Z' technique - I should try that! Thanks!


xian (at) simple world music (dot) com
"In everything and all I need, I know there's something in between
This simple world has more than I can see."

[rosie readandpost]

"xian" <clipski@veramark.com> wrote in message news:p8tahvk8urso49uecv8ughioipv029p57h@4ax.com...

> >

> I really like the allergy analogy. I have an 'adverse reaction' to
> alcohol.


WANT A DRINK?

nope, i'm allergic to it!

WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU DRINK?

i break out!
(pause)
i break out windows and doors!

:)

[ByTor]

In article <w5fRa.5652$o27.124953@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com says... while attaching C4 explosives
to computer and foaming at the mouth!
>
> "xian" <clipski@veramark.com> wrote in message news:p8tahvk8urso49uecv8ughioipv029p57h@4ax.com...
>
> > >
>
> > I really like the allergy analogy. I have an 'adverse reaction' to
> > alcohol.
>
>
> WANT A DRINK?
>
> nope, i'm allergic to it!
>
> WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU DRINK?
>
> i break out!
> (pause)
> i break out windows and doors!
>
> :)

Don't know about you, but I "break out" in handcuffs! :0)

[rosie readandpost]

LOL!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

never let yesterday use up too much of today.
...........................anonymous



"ByTor" <ByTor@snowdog.com> wrote in message news:egfRa.27042$GF2.7173678@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> In article <w5fRa.5652$o27.124953@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com says... while attaching C4 explosives
> to computer and foaming at the mouth!
> >
> > "xian" <clipski@veramark.com> wrote in message news:p8tahvk8urso49uecv8ughioipv029p57h@4ax.com...
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > I really like the allergy analogy. I have an 'adverse reaction' to
> > > alcohol.
> >
> >
> > WANT A DRINK?
> >
> > nope, i'm allergic to it!
> >
> > WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU DRINK?
> >
> > i break out!
> > (pause)
> > i break out windows and doors!
> >
> > :)
>
> Don't know about you, but I "break out" in handcuffs! :0)

[Robert McGregor]

"xian" <xianREMOVE@simple world music.com> wrote in message
news:qrsahvcdmbj9a447nevviqg2ovth8e9847@4ax.com...
>
> >
> >At first, I regarded this as both a trivial and boring topic.
> >
> [snip]
> >
> >Bob.
>
> So I take it you don't anthropomorphize. ;-)
>

LOL Ever since experiencing the delights of fornication, I have believed
masturbation to be a trivial and boring topic.

Bob

[Agent_Orange]

xian <xianREMOVE@simpleworldmusic.com> wrote in message news:<7788hv055dsnlrkppthtc1bm7b3b21gqhf@4ax.com>...
> Just a trivial question - how do you 'see' your alcoholism?
....snip...
>
> Just wondering how other people refer to their situation.
>

One of the things I am constantly aware of is the scheming
little base brain wanting its feel-good thingies.
I sometimes call it the Addiction Monster or the lizard
brain.

I wrote up a page on it:
http://aorange1.tripod.com/orange-addmonst.html

* agent_orange@linuxmail.org *
* AA and Recovery Cult Debunking *
* http://aorange1.tripod.com/ *
* Heisenberg said, "I'm not really sure if *
* that even was Shrödinger's cat. I think *
* he might have used somebody else's cat..." *

[dougsan]

Very interesting topic. In order for me to stay sober I have to address the
alcoholic in me every day. S/he sometimes presents as a relaxing friend
other times as the blackness I too often crave. The most difficult of
his/her disguises is as the warmth and unconditional love of a baby. The
alcoholic in me is not a nice person and I was not a nice drunk. If I were
to give the alcoholic in me a name it would probably be motherfucker. If it
were to be a name to be used in public I guess it would have to be "the
drunk me."