The middle of the night

[Dan McGown]

It's 11:50 p.m. eastern US time. I hate my profession. I've lost my wife
and my home. I got to take care of my son for a while this evening, but now
I'm in my apartment alone. Since I'm alone, there is no one watching but me
and the demon. If I drank, only the two of us would know. It's too late
for a meeting, the Big Book seems too dry and recoverychat.com seems so cold
and distant. I made jokes. I thought deep thoughts. I thought shallow but
practical thoughts. Now it comes down to the real moment to moment
challenge. I'm not going to drink. I'm not going to drink. I'm not going
to drink. I'm going to tell myself that there's someone else who will know.
I have to stick with that. It's all I have right now. Maybe it's all I
ever have. Maybe it is enough.

[Moonraker]

"Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:Y2LQa.340$2b1.326142@news2.news.adelphia.net. ..
> It's 11:50 p.m. eastern US time. I hate my profession. I've lost my wife
> and my home. I got to take care of my son for a while this evening, but
now
> I'm in my apartment alone. Since I'm alone, there is no one watching but
me
> and the demon. If I drank, only the two of us would know. It's too late
> for a meeting, the Big Book seems too dry and recoverychat.com seems so
cold
> and distant. I made jokes. I thought deep thoughts. I thought shallow
but
> practical thoughts. Now it comes down to the real moment to moment
> challenge. I'm not going to drink. I'm not going to drink. I'm not
going
> to drink. I'm going to tell myself that there's someone else who will
know.
> I have to stick with that. It's all I have right now. Maybe it's all I
> ever have. Maybe it is enough.
>
>

Do you have a sponsor?

[Dan McGown]

I think that I've made a serious mistake. I have put it off looking for the
right person. Now I think that I'd have been better off grabbing anyone at
random. I'm going to get through tonight and then, tomorrow, I'm going to
get a sponsor.

[Cartman]

Hang in there Dan. I'm in the same boat and have had a TERRIBLE night. I
allowed myself to imagine what I would do with booze to "help" me out of
this bad day. Ouch....even after crossing the 60 day milestone last week, I
could still vividly imagine the feeling of the mistake (booze) creep over my
body. Vividly enough to remember why I can not drink and how sick I get when
I do.

One AA friend I know said this to me once.....something like "If one day at
a time doesn't seem to be working, take one hour or one minute". Ask
yourself, "Do I need to have a drink in the next 15 minutes (or 5 minutes or
1 minute)". Again, hang tough.....I realized the mistake I had made tonight
by not yet getting a sponsor and I REALLY needed one. Tomorrow (actually
today now) we will both get sponsors.

- Cartman

"Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:Y2LQa.340$2b1.326142@news2.news.adelphia.net. ..
> It's 11:50 p.m. eastern US time. I hate my profession. I've lost my wife
> and my home. I got to take care of my son for a while this evening, but
now
> I'm in my apartment alone. Since I'm alone, there is no one watching but
me
> and the demon. If I drank, only the two of us would know. It's too late
> for a meeting, the Big Book seems too dry and recoverychat.com seems so
cold
> and distant. I made jokes. I thought deep thoughts. I thought shallow
but
> practical thoughts. Now it comes down to the real moment to moment
> challenge. I'm not going to drink. I'm not going to drink. I'm not
going
> to drink. I'm going to tell myself that there's someone else who will
know.
> I have to stick with that. It's all I have right now. Maybe it's all I
> ever have. Maybe it is enough.
>
>

[Moonraker]

"Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:xoLQa.344$2b1.328188@news2.news.adelphia.net. ..
> I think that I've made a serious mistake. I have put it off looking for
the
> right person. Now I think that I'd have been better off grabbing anyone
at
> random. I'm going to get through tonight and then, tomorrow, I'm going to
> get a sponsor.
>
>

Good.

One thing: sponsors aren't any good if you don't use them.

[Dan McGown]

I read what you had to say. It was a lot like being at a meeting and it
really helped. I did go to bed shortly after and I made it. Thanks.

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:jBLQa.104202$ic1.2144013@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
>
> Sometimes all we can do is grit our teeth and bear it. Pick up that big
> book, and go to sleep ;o)
>
> it does get better. Just don't drink right now and tomorrow, you can call
> in the reinforcements. I'd just hate to see you give up before the miracle
> happens.
>
> I remember my first few months. I didn't get to break up with my live in
> girlfriend, I got escorted out by a sheriff. I had to sleep on my friends
> couch, and rode my bicycle to meetings. I had a 5 mile commute to my
crappy
> cooking job. I would have to ride home at 4AM in the middle of (Florida)
> winter. I lost all my friends, and my only hobby. There was no escape
> from my thoughts. All I had was a sponsor, the steps, and meetings,
> meetings, meetings. I had thirty one years drunk, and one day sober at a
> time.
>
> Now in a year and a half, I have achieved more than I could ever have even
> imagined. I can only think that at this pace, by the time I am done with
> probation in a another year and a half how far I will be from here.
>
> I was discussing with my new good friend yesterday, as I was helping him
> move, that I had the best apartment for me right now. My truck, which was
> helpful, was running decently, the bike is in the shop, and I have a
(gifted
> to me) 27" TV in the shop too. I have a couple of hundred bucks in the
bank
> and all the bills are paid for the month and it's only week two.
>
> I just started a job, that I feel I was meant to do. And my boss thinks I
> do a better job at it than I thought I did. He wants more work out of me.
I
> didn't think a felonious drunk like me had anything to offer, turns out my
> experience is worth a lot.
>
> So stay sober for a few more minutes, go to bed, and it will look so much
> better in the light of day.
>
> PAX
>
> rev. shawster
>
> "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:Y2LQa.340$2b1.326142@news2.news.adelphia.net. ..
> > It's 11:50 p.m. eastern US time. I hate my profession. I've lost my
wife
> > and my home. I got to take care of my son for a while this evening, but
> now
> > I'm in my apartment alone. Since I'm alone, there is no one watching
but
> me
> > and the demon. If I drank, only the two of us would know. It's too
late
> > for a meeting, the Big Book seems too dry and recoverychat.com seems so
> cold
> > and distant. I made jokes. I thought deep thoughts. I thought shallow
> but
> > practical thoughts. Now it comes down to the real moment to moment
> > challenge. I'm not going to drink. I'm not going to drink. I'm not
> going
> > to drink. I'm going to tell myself that there's someone else who will
> know.
> > I have to stick with that. It's all I have right now. Maybe it's all I
> > ever have. Maybe it is enough.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Dan McGown]

Today, we both get a sponsor. I made it through the night and I hope you
did. check back tonight.

"Cartman" <omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:StKdnXnb37npEY6iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net...
> Hang in there Dan. I'm in the same boat and have had a TERRIBLE night. I
> allowed myself to imagine what I would do with booze to "help" me out of
> this bad day. Ouch....even after crossing the 60 day milestone last week,
I
> could still vividly imagine the feeling of the mistake (booze) creep over
my
> body. Vividly enough to remember why I can not drink and how sick I get
when
> I do.
>
> One AA friend I know said this to me once.....something like "If one day
at
> a time doesn't seem to be working, take one hour or one minute". Ask
> yourself, "Do I need to have a drink in the next 15 minutes (or 5 minutes
or
> 1 minute)". Again, hang tough.....I realized the mistake I had made
tonight
> by not yet getting a sponsor and I REALLY needed one. Tomorrow (actually
> today now) we will both get sponsors.
>
> - Cartman
>
> "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:Y2LQa.340$2b1.326142@news2.news.adelphia.net. ..
> > It's 11:50 p.m. eastern US time. I hate my profession. I've lost my
wife
> > and my home. I got to take care of my son for a while this evening, but
> now
> > I'm in my apartment alone. Since I'm alone, there is no one watching
but
> me
> > and the demon. If I drank, only the two of us would know. It's too
late
> > for a meeting, the Big Book seems too dry and recoverychat.com seems so
> cold
> > and distant. I made jokes. I thought deep thoughts. I thought shallow
> but
> > practical thoughts. Now it comes down to the real moment to moment
> > challenge. I'm not going to drink. I'm not going to drink. I'm not
> going
> > to drink. I'm going to tell myself that there's someone else who will
> know.
> > I have to stick with that. It's all I have right now. Maybe it's all I
> > ever have. Maybe it is enough.
> >
> >
>
>

[Dan McGown]

It's morning and I'll get a sponsor today.

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:gSLQa.755$oa4.630@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com...
>
> "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:xoLQa.344$2b1.328188@news2.news.adelphia.net. ..
> > I think that I've made a serious mistake. I have put it off looking for
> the
> > right person. Now I think that I'd have been better off grabbing anyone
> at
> > random. I'm going to get through tonight and then, tomorrow, I'm going
to
> > get a sponsor.
> >
> >
>
> Good.
>
> One thing: sponsors aren't any good if you don't use them.
>
>
>

[Michael Rapp]

What they taught me in therapy was the idea of a kind of first- aid-
kit: Not just a list of phone numbers in your wallet of the people you
can call at any time, but a list of things you can do when you are in
the box. Not just the obvious like reading a book or watching TV, but
some real good stuff.
I made up mine, but differentiated between things I could do ony at
particular times of the day and things I could do ANYtime (where would
you figure playing an instrument? Worse, if like me, I couldn't hold a
tune if it had handles).
The important thing is to make up that list when you are in a really
good mood. My mind is unable to focus on activities when all I think
about is "stuff". If I attempted such a thing, I would come up with
activities like
Buying
Old
Ostrich
Zoo
Equipment
I think you get my drift... :-)
Michael.
-------------------

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:45:20 GMT, "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net>
wrote:
>I read what you had to say. It was a lot like being at a meeting and it
>really helped. I did go to bed shortly after and I made it. Thanks.
>
>"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:jBLQa.104202$ic1.2144013@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
>>
>> Sometimes all we can do is grit our teeth and bear it. Pick up that big
>> book, and go to sleep ;o)
>>
>> it does get better. Just don't drink right now and tomorrow, you can call
>> in the reinforcements. I'd just hate to see you give up before the miracle
>> happens.
>>
>> I remember my first few months. I didn't get to break up with my live in
>> girlfriend, I got escorted out by a sheriff. I had to sleep on my friends
>> couch, and rode my bicycle to meetings. I had a 5 mile commute to my
>crappy
>> cooking job. I would have to ride home at 4AM in the middle of (Florida)
>> winter. I lost all my friends, and my only hobby. There was no escape
>> from my thoughts. All I had was a sponsor, the steps, and meetings,
>> meetings, meetings. I had thirty one years drunk, and one day sober at a
>> time.
>>
>> Now in a year and a half, I have achieved more than I could ever have even
>> imagined. I can only think that at this pace, by the time I am done with
>> probation in a another year and a half how far I will be from here.
>>
>> I was discussing with my new good friend yesterday, as I was helping him
>> move, that I had the best apartment for me right now. My truck, which was
>> helpful, was running decently, the bike is in the shop, and I have a
>(gifted
>> to me) 27" TV in the shop too. I have a couple of hundred bucks in the
>bank
>> and all the bills are paid for the month and it's only week two.
>>
>> I just started a job, that I feel I was meant to do. And my boss thinks I
>> do a better job at it than I thought I did. He wants more work out of me.
>I
>> didn't think a felonious drunk like me had anything to offer, turns out my
>> experience is worth a lot.
>>
>> So stay sober for a few more minutes, go to bed, and it will look so much
>> better in the light of day.
>>
>> PAX
>>
>> rev. shawster

[Shawster]

"Plug" <gluggaglug@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bf09un$2ea$1@titan.btinternet.com...
>
> "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:jBLQa.104202$ic1.2144013@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
> >
> > Now in a year and a half, I have achieved more than I could ever have
even
> > imagined.
> Hi Shaw,
> I'm so pleased for you. You are an inspiration to us all. Still haven't
> explained the "Rev" tag though. Have I missed something?
> Deb/Bubba

I was ordained in april with the universal life church. so I put Rev. on my
more reverenential posts ;o)

I don't want to be an inspiration, more like a sherpa guide. I've been
there, here's the path. I'm just a guy who did it for a few days in a row,
so If I can do it, so can you. Like you have. except your not a guy.

Shaw

>
>
>

[rosie readandpost]

can i recommend that you skip the first 164 pages, and go right to the stories?
if you don't drink, there will always be time to go back and read "the dry stuff".
hang in there dan!



--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

never let yesterday use up too much of today.
...........................anonymous



"Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:Y2LQa.340$2b1.326142@news2.news.adelphia.net. ..
> It's 11:50 p.m. eastern US time. I hate my profession. I've lost my wife
> and my home. I got to take care of my son for a while this evening, but now
> I'm in my apartment alone. Since I'm alone, there is no one watching but me
> and the demon. If I drank, only the two of us would know. It's too late
> for a meeting, the Big Book seems too dry and recoverychat.com seems so cold
> and distant. I made jokes. I thought deep thoughts. I thought shallow but
> practical thoughts. Now it comes down to the real moment to moment
> challenge. I'm not going to drink. I'm not going to drink. I'm not going
> to drink. I'm going to tell myself that there's someone else who will know.
> I have to stick with that. It's all I have right now. Maybe it's all I
> ever have. Maybe it is enough.
>
>

[rosie readandpost]

> it does get better. Just don't drink right now and tomorrow, you can call
> in the reinforcements. I'd just hate to see you give up before the miracle
> happens.
>
>

AMEN!
;)

[rosie readandpost]

may 21, 2001 was my ordination!


20 million of us!
http://www.ulc.org/hq-beta/

[rosie readandpost]

i remember my first "panic situation" while out of town,in sobriety, i couldn't have spelled
ALCOHOLIC ANONYMOUS if i tried!

one of my tools, when traveling, is to look up the number in the local phone book , and keep it on a pad near the
telephone for the duration of my visit.

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

never let yesterday use up too much of today.
...........................anonymous



"Michael Rapp" <m.rapp@t-online.de> wrote in message news:3f13f6fe.6841727@news.btx.dtag.de...
> What they taught me in therapy was the idea of a kind of first- aid-
> kit: Not just a list of phone numbers in your wallet of the people you
> can call at any time, but a list of things you can do when you are in
> the box. Not just the obvious like reading a book or watching TV, but
> some real good stuff.
> I made up mine, but differentiated between things I could do ony at
> particular times of the day and things I could do ANYtime (where would
> you figure playing an instrument? Worse, if like me, I couldn't hold a
> tune if it had handles).
> The important thing is to make up that list when you are in a really
> good mood. My mind is unable to focus on activities when all I think
> about is "stuff". If I attempted such a thing, I would come up with
> activities like
> Buying
> Old
> Ostrich
> Zoo
> Equipment
> I think you get my drift... :-)
> Michael.
> -------------------
>
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:45:20 GMT, "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net>
> wrote:
> >I read what you had to say. It was a lot like being at a meeting and it
> >really helped. I did go to bed shortly after and I made it. Thanks.
> >
> >"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> >news:jBLQa.104202$ic1.2144013@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
> >>
> >> Sometimes all we can do is grit our teeth and bear it. Pick up that big
> >> book, and go to sleep ;o)
> >>
> >> it does get better. Just don't drink right now and tomorrow, you can call
> >> in the reinforcements. I'd just hate to see you give up before the miracle
> >> happens.
> >>
> >> I remember my first few months. I didn't get to break up with my live in
> >> girlfriend, I got escorted out by a sheriff. I had to sleep on my friends
> >> couch, and rode my bicycle to meetings. I had a 5 mile commute to my
> >crappy
> >> cooking job. I would have to ride home at 4AM in the middle of (Florida)
> >> winter. I lost all my friends, and my only hobby. There was no escape
> >> from my thoughts. All I had was a sponsor, the steps, and meetings,
> >> meetings, meetings. I had thirty one years drunk, and one day sober at a
> >> time.
> >>
> >> Now in a year and a half, I have achieved more than I could ever have even
> >> imagined. I can only think that at this pace, by the time I am done with
> >> probation in a another year and a half how far I will be from here.
> >>
> >> I was discussing with my new good friend yesterday, as I was helping him
> >> move, that I had the best apartment for me right now. My truck, which was
> >> helpful, was running decently, the bike is in the shop, and I have a
> >(gifted
> >> to me) 27" TV in the shop too. I have a couple of hundred bucks in the
> >bank
> >> and all the bills are paid for the month and it's only week two.
> >>
> >> I just started a job, that I feel I was meant to do. And my boss thinks I
> >> do a better job at it than I thought I did. He wants more work out of me.
> >I
> >> didn't think a felonious drunk like me had anything to offer, turns out my
> >> experience is worth a lot.
> >>
> >> So stay sober for a few more minutes, go to bed, and it will look so much
> >> better in the light of day.
> >>
> >> PAX
> >>
> >> rev. shawster

[rosie readandpost]

......I realized the mistake I had made tonight
> by not yet getting a sponsor and I REALLY needed one. Tomorrow (actually
> today now) we will both get sponsors.
>
> - Cartman
>
>

FABULOUS!
congrats to both of you for making it through.

want another tool?
in my early days, when i would imagine "a drink", i would get TRUTHFUL with myself and follow that drink all the way
through, remembering how ONE DRINK would set me off, and lead to the next, and the next, and the arguments, and the
passing out..................
a great REALITY CHECK!

[Plug]

> > "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:jBLQa.104202$ic1.2144013@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
> > >
.. Still haven't
> > explained the "Rev" tag though. Have I missed something?
> > Deb/Bubba
>
> I was ordained in april with the universal life church.

Really? Is this some Shaw humour or is it some wacky Yankee thing you guys
tend to monopolise?


Anyway, in case it's for real, I'll be more circumspect in future.


Deb/Bubba

[rosie readandpost]

you don't read well do you robert?
i didn't say don't read them, i said "go back to them later".....................
the first 164 pages of the BIG BOOK, imo, can be quite dry, and rather than ignore the whole book, starting with the
stories can be quite comforting.
its my experience, strength, and hope that i share, not yours.


your continued reference to my mental illness and the necessary medication that it takes, certainly points out how
uneducated you really are.
it also points out that you truly didn't understand A NEW PAIR OF GLASSES.
why not go back and try again.

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

never let yesterday use up too much of today.
...........................anonymous



"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:bf16ec$9utb2$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ktTQa.5321$7O4.49795@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > can i recommend that you skip the first 164 pages, and go right to the
> stories?
> > if you don't drink, there will always be time to go back and read "the dry
> stuff".
> > hang in there dan!
> >
>
> Many AA folks fed me that evasion too. Fortunately, I was so keen to recover
> I
> ignored them. Today, like rosie, who has to continue upping her meds after
> 20+ years, the ones who have actually stayed sober are just as mad as they
> were back then.
>
> The poor idiots seem to really believe their own bullshit, in it's warm and
> tender facade, is divinity personified.
>
> This is what AA itself proclaims, in those pages Rosie suggests you do not
> read.
>
> http://www.anonpress.org/bb/Page_58.htm
>
> "HOW IT WORKS
>
>
> Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.
> Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give
> themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are
> constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. "
>
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:A98Ka.109221$Xl.2092045@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > i will never be recovered..............................
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>

[Bobby L.]

Dan,

Find someone that's got something you want -- serenity, peace of mind,
things like that might be good things to look for right now - it also helps
to find someone that will giggle at your troubles. Eventually you will
learn to laugh at them too.

Another memory -- when I was where you are I kept a journal -- writing kept
me from drinking -- sometimes it even kept me from thinking about drinking
too.

Bobby L


"Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:JRRQa.9$xe.49983@news2.news.adelphia.net...
> It's morning and I'll get a sponsor today.
>
> "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:gSLQa.755$oa4.630@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com...
> >
> > "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> > news:xoLQa.344$2b1.328188@news2.news.adelphia.net. ..
> > > I think that I've made a serious mistake. I have put it off looking
for
> > the
> > > right person. Now I think that I'd have been better off grabbing
anyone
> > at
> > > random. I'm going to get through tonight and then, tomorrow, I'm
going
> to
> > > get a sponsor.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Good.
> >
> > One thing: sponsors aren't any good if you don't use them.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3jXQa.2067$o27.61834@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> you don't read well do you robert?

Really?

> i didn't say don't read them, i said "go back to them
later".....................

Oh, you wqant to resort to semantics? In context, you most certainly did not
say "go back to them later" Your snipped "you can" merely refers to an
unadvised option!

However, given that text implores,
"At some of these we balked. We thought we could find an easier, softer way.
But we could not. With all the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to
be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold
on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely."

Later means later, while, "from the very start" indisputably means from the
very start, while, in reference to your own claim never to recover, "those
who do not recover" indisputably means those who do not recover.


> the first 164 pages of the BIG BOOK, imo, can be quite dry, and rather
than ignore the whole book, starting with the
> stories can be quite comforting.

The recovery process from alcoholism, involving abandonment of long held
ideas, was never purported to be a comfort zone, other than by those who
need not or do not recover. That context was covered succinctly in the text
you rejected,"We thought we could find an easier, softer way. But we could
not. " You thought you could find an easier softer way, but what happens?
Have a look at your own depiction of what happens!

"rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<ZPSl5.19140$E05.340458@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>

>i am thinking about asking my pdoc to increase my celexa to
>60mg..........anyone else in here have good results with that dosage?
>my 40mg seems to be "pooping out"...........




> its my experience, strength, and hope that i share, not yours.

Your experience, waiting for a satisfactory pill? Your strength?? Must admit
I once confused stubborness with strength. Your hope???? Your "depression"
is hopelesness personified.

>
>
> your continued reference to my mental illness

To classify your pathetic self centredness as mental illness is a gross
insult to the mentally ill. I have *never* referred to your presumed "mental
illness"!

>and the necessary medication that it takes,

Neccessary? You *choose* to pop pills.

>certainly points out how uneducated you really are.

Oh I never was, nor claimed to be, well educated. However it does not take
long at all to find counter claims to yours from the academia you refer to.
Matter of fact, reading recently of Shawsters recovery and success reminded
me I obtained more academic qualification during around a decade after
commencing recovery, than the preceeding half century.

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
news:MU0Fa.72106$jT4.1515242@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> as i stated before a few in here do NOT understand the difference between
SITUATIONAL depression (generally seen in
> alcoholics in early recovery) and CHRONIC DYSTHYMIA.
> this same few, are not interested in learning about it either.
http://depression.about.com/cs/dysthymia/
Dysthymia is a milder, chronic form of depression. It may periodically have
episodes of major depression superimposed upon it. When this occurs, it is
known as "double depression".
http://www.apa.org/releases/antidep.html
Study Finds Psychotherapy and Anti-Depressants Equally Effective in Treating
Severely Depressed Primary-Care Patients

WASHINGTON - Researchers comparing the effectiveness of treating major
depression with either antidepressant medication or psychotherapy noted no
difference in the success of the two treatment methods after an eight-month
clinical investigation.

http://www.ucc.uconn.edu/~wwwnews/rel98119.htm
Storrs , Conn. -- The effectiveness of antidepressants is mainly in the
placebo effect of treatment, not in the medication itself, according to a
new study by a University of Connecticut psychologist.

> it also points out that you truly didn't understand A NEW PAIR OF GLASSES.
> why not go back and try again.

Were I the one popping pills while claiming here to be drug free, I would
have to admit to more to learn in that respect, though obviously, given your
allegations and *documented* falsehoods here, rigorous honesty is more
pertinent in your case. For one such as you, purporting to be a therapist,
here to shine a new light in this newsgroup,

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
news:MU0Fa.72106$jT4.1515242@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> i stay in ARAA (with an active killfile) to share my experience, strength
>and hope and to remind those who come, that
> these few folks ARE NOT a sample of the loving understanding, that can be
>found in AA and other support groups!

that is absurd.

Bob

>
> --
> read and post daily, it works!
> rosie

> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bf16ec$9utb2$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:ktTQa.5321$7O4.49795@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > can i recommend that you skip the first 164 pages, and go right to the
> > stories?
> > > if you don't drink, there will always be time to go back and read "the
dry
> > stuff".
> > > hang in there dan!
> > >
> >
> > Many AA folks fed me that evasion too. Fortunately, I was so keen to
recover
> > I
> > ignored them. Today, like rosie, who has to continue upping her meds
after
> > 20+ years, the ones who have actually stayed sober are just as mad as
they
> > were back then.
> >
> > The poor idiots seem to really believe their own bullshit, in it's warm
and
> > tender facade, is divinity personified.
> >
> > This is what AA itself proclaims, in those pages Rosie suggests you do
not
> > read.
> >
> > http://www.anonpress.org/bb/Page_58.htm
> >
> > "HOW IT WORKS
> >
> >
> > Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.
> > Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely
give
> > themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are
> > constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. "
> >
> >
> > "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:A98Ka.109221$Xl.2092045@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > >
> > > i will never be recovered..............................
> >
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Michael Rapp]

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:47:53 GMT, "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net>
wrote:

>It's morning and I'll get a sponsor today.
>
------------
Dan, when I was in therapy there were about three to four guys (the
sex doesn't matter here) to whom I built a relationship. They are
alcoholics, too, but with this personal relationship, friendship even,
we're able to goof off, make jokes and do all the things buddies do.
The difference is, when we talk about our "problem" (or whatever you
choose to call it), then we know we are not talking past each other,
like I experience when I'm talking with my girfriend or my oldest
friends I have about my adiction. They just know, but that does not
mean we have to sit around the house in a gloomy mood.
I really hope you manage to find someone like this, too.
Michael.

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:X00Ra.2607$o27.76587@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> > "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:3jXQa.2067$o27.61834@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > you don't read well do you robert?
> >
> > > i didn't say don't read them, i said "go back to them
> > later".....................
> >
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bf1vrk$a6fke$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > Oh, you wqant to resort to semantics?
>
>
> no, that's your specialty......................

Really? Why then do you challenge the evidence of your very own posts?

> > Later means later, while, "from the very start" indisputably means from
the
> > very start, while, in reference to your own claim never to recover,
"those
> > who do not recover" indisputably means those who do not recover.
> >
> >
>
> ROTFLMAO!

That is funny?

> robert, you pick on folks who do too much thinking, take your own advise!
> LOL!

Pick on folks who do too much thinking? To the contrary, I abhor the
negation of thinking proselytised by liers such as yourself.

Keep rolling your arse popandpost, doubt you will laugh it off, but with the
right drugs, and a real good poop, you might lose some of your shit.

Bob

[Shawster]

"Plug" <gluggaglug@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bf1a7j$q7u$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
> > > "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:jBLQa.104202$ic1.2144013@twister.tampabay.rr. com...
> > > >
> . Still haven't
> > > explained the "Rev" tag though. Have I missed something?
> > > Deb/Bubba
> >
> > I was ordained in april with the universal life church.
>
> Really? Is this some Shaw humour or is it some wacky Yankee thing you
guys
> tend to monopolise?
>
>
> Anyway, in case it's for real, I'll be more circumspect in future.
>
>
well start looking around, it's for real.

Shaw humor?me? funny?

[rosie readandpost]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:bf23pc$ae3qj$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > no, that's your specialty......................
>
> Really? Why then do you challenge the evidence of your very own posts?
>
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1AcRa.5634$o27.119532@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bf23pc$ae3qj$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > no, that's your specialty......................
> >
> > Really? Why then do you challenge the evidence of your very own posts?
> >
> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
>
>

Will Ms Rip Van Winkel ever wake up to the fact the dogma she pastes is
often in direct contradiction to her own posts, or will her sleep continue
to the bitter end?

Bob

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:38:24 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>can i recommend that you skip the first 164 pages, and go right to the stories?

If he wants to recover, why on earth would he do that? I believe
there's a reason the smaller versions of the book all have the first
164 pages included. So by all means read the stories, but not in
preference to the real bit about recovery.

>if you don't drink, there will always be time to go back and read "the dry stuff".

And that dry stuff is all about how to not drink...

--
Blue Moon

[rosie readandpost]

bm,
rather than have a person CHUCK the whole BIG BOOK because its a DRY READ, i often suggest starting with the stories.
there are alot of things to learn there, as well.

(don't worry yourself about it, we eventually get around to the 164 pages in the front)

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

dance like no one is watching, love like you'll never be hurt, sing like no one is listening, live like it's heaven on
earth."
...................................william purkey




"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:e5e271b0dfc968845e40a7b7aaf0711e@free.teranew s.com...
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:38:24 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
> <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >can i recommend that you skip the first 164 pages, and go right to the stories?
>
> If he wants to recover, why on earth would he do that? I believe
> there's a reason the smaller versions of the book all have the first
> 164 pages included. So by all means read the stories, but not in
> preference to the real bit about recovery.
>
> >if you don't drink, there will always be time to go back and read "the dry stuff".
>
> And that dry stuff is all about how to not drink...
>
> --
> Blue Moon

[rosie readandpost]

> To be honest, I had a lot of difficulty identifying with many of the
> stories at the back.
>
> --
> Blue Moon

as did i, until i started to read them for their thoughts and feelings, rather than their actions.
then i related, BIG TIME!

[Gail]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cuVRa.17938$6a3.271406@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> > To be honest, I had a lot of difficulty identifying with many of the
> > stories at the back.
> >
> > --
> > Blue Moon
>
> as did i, until i started to read them for their thoughts and feelings,
rather than their actions.
> then i related, BIG TIME!
>
>

I didn't relate to most of the stories. I did relate to most of the
consequences of the people in the stories. There was at least one thing in
each story that was about me...;)
Best,
Gail

[Shawster]

> >
>
> I didn't relate to most of the stories. I did relate to most of the
> consequences of the people in the stories. There was at least one thing in
> each story that was about me...;)

I wasn't like any of the people in the back, but they still drank like me
and felt like me. Even though I wasn't a doctor, lawyer, wife, husband....
I was still drunk.

The milk in the scotch thing reminded me of how insane I was.

[Blue Moon]

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:31:48 GMT, "Shawster"
<shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

>
>
>> >
>>
>> I didn't relate to most of the stories. I did relate to most of the
>> consequences of the people in the stories. There was at least one thing in
>> each story that was about me...;)
>
>I wasn't like any of the people in the back, but they still drank like me
>and felt like me. Even though I wasn't a doctor, lawyer, wife, husband....
>I was still drunk.
>
>The milk in the scotch thing reminded me of how insane I was.

Ah, now that's in the front :) Along with the jaywalker analogy, and
the list of things alcoholics will do to try to prove themselves
exceptions to the rule. Dry? LOL who said it was dry? I didn't find
it dry out until chapter 4 and, curiously, my sponsor helped me ignore
much of the confusion in that one.

--
Blue Moon

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <Y2LQa.340$2b1.326142@news2.news.adelphia.net>, Dan McGown
<DMcGown@adelphia.net> writes
>Since I'm alone, there is no one watching but me and the demon. If I
>drank, only the two of us would know.

And if the demon knows this time - it will only be the easier for him to
win this time.

Face him down and he'll be ever so much smaller tomorrow.

Maybe an on-line meeting might help - they are round the clock.

Best of British.
--
Jonathan Bratt