Taking stock

[catsruleok]

Moonraker has called me a troll. For the record, I am *not*, I repeat *not* a troll. I came here
in search of help and support to stay off drink As a result of doing so, I've been sober for
several weeks. Thank you for enabling me to get as far as I have.

I know that I am not strong enough on my own to beat my alcoholism therefore, I've decided that for
my own sake, I'm going to stick with this group and take from it all the sensible advice that I can
find.

JB.

[Moonraker]

"catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:besc1n$s45$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Moonraker has called me a troll. For the record, I am *not*, I repeat
*not* a troll. I came here
> in search of help and support to stay off drink As a result of doing so,
I've been sober for
> several weeks. Thank you for enabling me to get as far as I have

YOU referred to our conversations as a game, with a winner and a loser.
Just how seriously do you want to be taken, anyway? What is a troll, except
one who is playing games? Are you for real, or are you not? I'm about to
start burning my end of the bridge......

Do you want to "stay off drink".....or do you want to QUIT? Do you want to
recover, or do you want to reinvent the wheel?

You asked for information. You didn't like what you were told, how it was
told to you, or the suggested schedule for recovery. You tried
guilt-tripping, whining, being insulted, and alleging that you were being
preached to and bullied.

If you don't want to take seriously the suggestions given to you by those
who "have" recovered and "think" your way through all this...."good luck"

"Honey, does this dress make my ass look fat?"

> I know that I am not strong enough on my own to beat my alcoholism

Step One. Congratulations.

>therefore, I've decided that for
> my own sake, I'm going to stick with this group

Step Two. Congratulations, again.

> and take from it all the sensible advice that I can
> find.

Here's where the rubber meets the road. Try turning your "thinker" off for
a while, and just go with the flow.


> JB.
>

>

[Shawster]

I had a thought this morning. it was about two years ago now, that i tried
to stop drinking. there was a three month period that I was dry (ish) and
miserable. My bottom came after I went to jail, and then when I got out,
after reading the big book, I went to AA, and the ride has been amazing ever
since.

I come to realize that JB would be a month into heading towards her bottom
still. There is no recovery, just a drying out. So I will be patient and
not criticize too much and just wait it out until she is ready. I just hope
she doesn't flip out and kill her husband first. or maybe that is what it
will take....


"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:V2jQa.10852$pO5.657@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com.. .
>
> "catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:besc1n$s45$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Moonraker has called me a troll. For the record, I am *not*, I repeat
> *not* a troll. I came here
> > in search of help and support to stay off drink As a result of doing
so,
> I've been sober for
> > several weeks. Thank you for enabling me to get as far as I have
>
> YOU referred to our conversations as a game, with a winner and a loser.
> Just how seriously do you want to be taken, anyway? What is a troll,
except
> one who is playing games? Are you for real, or are you not? I'm about
to
> start burning my end of the bridge......
>
> Do you want to "stay off drink".....or do you want to QUIT? Do you want
to
> recover, or do you want to reinvent the wheel?
>
> You asked for information. You didn't like what you were told, how it was
> told to you, or the suggested schedule for recovery. You tried
> guilt-tripping, whining, being insulted, and alleging that you were being
> preached to and bullied.
>
> If you don't want to take seriously the suggestions given to you by those
> who "have" recovered and "think" your way through all this...."good luck"
>
> "Honey, does this dress make my ass look fat?"
>
> > I know that I am not strong enough on my own to beat my alcoholism
>
> Step One. Congratulations.
>
> >therefore, I've decided that for
> > my own sake, I'm going to stick with this group
>
> Step Two. Congratulations, again.
>
> > and take from it all the sensible advice that I can
> > find.
>
> Here's where the rubber meets the road. Try turning your "thinker" off
for
> a while, and just go with the flow.
>
>
> > JB.
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>

[Moonraker]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gmjQa.13281$k85.754789@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
I just hope
> she doesn't flip out and kill her husband first. or maybe that is what it
> will take....
>
I hope for his sake she doesn't ask "Honey, does this dress make my ass
look fat?" right after he's had a couple of pints. ;>)

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <besc1n$s45$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, catsruleok
<catsruleok@bigfoot.com> writes
>Moonraker has called me a troll. For the record, I am *not*, I repeat
>*not* a troll.

Oh I got that too.
Take no notice of anything he says, he's on some kind of superiority
trip.

> I came here
>in search of help and support to stay off drink As a result of doing
>so, I've been sober for
>several weeks. Thank you for enabling me to get as far as I have.

It worked for me too - hope it continues to do for you.
>
>I know that I am not strong enough on my own to beat my alcoholism
>therefore, I've decided that for
>my own sake, I'm going to stick with this group and take from it all
>the sensible advice that I can
>find.

You just have to separate the wheat from the chaff.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Blue Moon]

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:03:56 +0100, "catsruleok"
<catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>Moonraker has called me a troll. For the record, I am *not*, I repeat *not* a troll.

Don't worry about it. Would it really matter if you were?

Generally speaking, alcoholics are sensitive people with a touch of
arrogance. Feelings are sensitive, dealings arrogant. I'd suggest
that arrogance (ego) is a defense mechanism, learned over many years
of bitter experience, and not easily shed.

Steps 3 and 4 is the start of learning about this, and how deep it
really goes in the mind of an alcoholic. Cause and effect take on a
new meaning. Cause: you said Moonraker was giving a sermon. Effect:
he retaliated, seemingly without provocation. Cause: he referred to
you as a troll. Effect: you retaliated, seemingly without
provocation...

Recovery is really about learning (or trying to learn) to become more
sensitive on the outside, and thus become less sensitive on the
inside. After years of alcohol abuse, it's not easy to learn. But
the Steps required to learn it are simple in themselves.

>I know that I am not strong enough on my own to beat my alcoholism therefore, I've decided that for
>my own sake, I'm going to stick with this group and take from it all the sensible advice that I can
>find.

Well, good luck with finding out what's sensible :)

--
Blue Moon

[catsruleok]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b8eb199729c07ebaca8af55e6b2931ee@free.teranew s.com...
> On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:03:56 +0100, "catsruleok"
> <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
<snip>

> Generally speaking, alcoholics are sensitive people with a touch of
> arrogance. Feelings are sensitive, dealings arrogant. I'd suggest
> that arrogance (ego) is a defense mechanism, learned over many years
> of bitter experience, and not easily shed.
>
> Steps 3 and 4 is the start of learning about this, and how deep it
> really goes in the mind of an alcoholic. Cause and effect take on a
> new meaning. Cause: you said Moonraker was giving a sermon. Effect:
> he retaliated, seemingly without provocation. Cause: he referred to
> you as a troll. Effect: you retaliated, seemingly without
> provocation...
>
> Recovery is really about learning (or trying to learn) to become more
> sensitive on the outside, and thus become less sensitive on the
> inside. After years of alcohol abuse, it's not easy to learn. But
> the Steps required to learn it are simple in themselves.

<snip>

Blue Moon,

Thank you for sharing your experiences. What you've said above makes sense of me and I'm therefore
most grateful to you for taking the trouble to post.

JB

[rosie readandpost]

> Recovery is really about learning (or trying to learn) to become more
> sensitive on the outside, and thus become less sensitive on the
> inside.


good one!

[Robert McGregor]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b8eb199729c07ebaca8af55e6b2931ee@free.teranew s.com...
>
> Recovery is really about learning (or trying to learn) to become more
> sensitive on the outside, and thus become less sensitive on the
> inside.

Hahaha Blue, are those yanks converting you to their AAspeak already? So in
the Usan gospel, recovery is not really about recovery, but about
*re*covering that which has never been covered? Spose it's another follow on
from the treatment industry, purporting to *re*habilitate folk that have
never been habilitated;-)

I do agree however that the nurture of balance, including balance between
what one gives, and is capable of taking, is a worthwhile endeavour.

Bob

[Robert McGregor]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:05c405614fa4c33ca1e74142af006c02@free.teranew s.com...
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 12:20:39 +1000, "Robert McGregor"
> <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> >"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:b8eb199729c07ebaca8af55e6b2931ee@free.teranew s.com...
> >>
> >> Recovery is really about learning (or trying to learn) to become more
> >> sensitive on the outside, and thus become less sensitive on the
> >> inside.
> >
> >Hahaha Blue, are those yanks converting you to their AAspeak already?
>
> LOL no chance! It FEELS like I've heard more nonsense here than I
> used to hear in the UK. But I'll concede that could be my perception
> being off-beam... life's been pretty hectic lately, and not without
> some emotional impact.
>
> >So in the Usan gospel, recovery is not really about recovery, but about
> >*re*covering that which has never been covered?
>
> Eh? No, if you really think about it the Steps are designed to try
> and eliminate self-will and self-obsession.

Not only did I really think about it, I did a bit of research too. Some say
the steps are unadulterated divine inspiration. Some say the steps are an
idealists icon, rather than a practical path to follow. History shows the
final version of the steps was a (imo fortuitous) decision by a
committee!

I found the steps to be an ideal way to have a good look at myself.
Probably, due to their unique structure, the only way I had a chance of
doing so relatively impartially; with the bonus of solutions for what that
look at myself revealed.

> What is that if it's not
> trying to effectively "desensitize" the inside? To quit acting on
> feelings. In times of trouble/stress, Step 10 offers me a useful
> exercise in "being" other-centred, and can work even at 3am. What's
> that if it's not being more sensitive (mentally/emotionally speaking)
> outside of self?
>
> Can be a problem remembering to do it though ;)
>
> >Spose it's another follow on from the treatment industry, purporting to
> >*re*habilitate folk that have never been habilitated;-)
>
> Well I remember at least one person having a problem with the "restore
> to sanity" of AA's Step 2, on the basis that you can't restore what
> you never had.
>
> >I do agree however that the nurture of balance, including balance between
> >what one gives, and is capable of taking, is a worthwhile endeavour.
>
> That's what I was really getting at :)

You sidetracked yourself;-)

Bob

[Agent_Orange]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<V2jQa.10852$pO5.657@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com>...
> "catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:besc1n$s45$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > and take from it all the sensible advice that I can
> > find.
>
> Here's where the rubber meets the road.
> Try turning your "thinker" off for
> a while, and just go with the flow.
> > JB.

No. Do not turn off the thinker. That is
mental suicide, and surrender to the cult.
You will need all of the mental acuity and
good common sense you can muster if you
are to save your own life.

"Turn off the thinker" is pure cult dogma,
common to many cults.
See the cult characteristic, "Group-think":
http://aorange1.tripod.com/orange-cult_q0.html#cq_group_think
and
http://aorange1.tripod.com/orange-cult_a0.html#ca_group_think

Also see "Newcomers can't think right":
http://aorange1.tripod.com/orange-cult_q3.html#cq_newcomers_wrong
and
http://aorange1.tripod.com/orange-cult_a3.html#ca_newcomers_wrong

* Agent Orange *
* agent_orange@linuxmail.org *
* AA and Recovery Cult Debunking *
* http://aorange1.tripod.com/ *
* Heisenberg said, "I'm not really sure if *
* that even was Shrödinger's cat. I think *
* he might have used somebody else's cat..." *

[Virtualoso]

In article <8e728989.0307241231.762c36d9@posting.google.com>,
Agent_Orange <agent_orange@linuxmail.org> wrote:

> No. Do not turn off the thinker. That is
> mental suicide, and surrender to the cult.
> You will need all of the mental acuity and
> good common sense you can muster if you
> are to save your own life.
>
> "Turn off the thinker" is pure cult dogma,
> common to many cults.
> See the cult characteristic, "Group-think":
> http://aorange1....
> and
> http://aorange1....
>
> Also see "Newcomers can't think right":
> http://aorange1.....
> and
> http://aorange1....

LOL. Let AgentOrange supply your thinking, so you can join the cult of
AgentOrange GroupThunk.