Re: will AA work?

[Moonraker]

"J. Rockford" <mikedawn@flash.net> wrote in message
news:100720030912541086%mikedawn@flash.net...
>
> The unsaid rule of aa worth is length of time sober. I just love
> listening to the unemployed bicycle rider telling me what page to read
> in the big book. They should put a section in the next big book
> edition- "Now that you're a big shot in aa- get off your ass, quit
> bumming rides, cigarettes and get a JOB!
>
> Have a nice day,


There certainly are those who flaunt their length of sober time as an
indication that what they say should carry lots of weight.

(Why, we have one of that sort right here in ara-a.)

[rosie readandpost]

i assume you are referring to me, and i will answer you moon....................................
is it flaunting or assuring folks that it can be done?


i am VERY PROUD and GRATEFUL for my 20+yrs of sobriety.
why?

it means, that no matter what "shit hit the fan" i kept doing what i was taught to do!
i was taught by all of the wonderful old-timers that helped me over the years!

PRAY, DON'T DRINK, GO TO MEETINGS.

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

ever wonder if we would care more about each other if we realized how much we have in common?
..............................R. Nagy




"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:NGePa.11673$K67.5590@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com. ..
>
> "J. Rockford" <mikedawn@flash.net> wrote in message
> news:100720030912541086%mikedawn@flash.net...
> >
> > The unsaid rule of aa worth is length of time sober. I just love
> > listening to the unemployed bicycle rider telling me what page to read
> > in the big book. They should put a section in the next big book
> > edition- "Now that you're a big shot in aa- get off your ass, quit
> > bumming rides, cigarettes and get a JOB!
> >
> > Have a nice day,
>
>
> There certainly are those who flaunt their length of sober time as an
> indication that what they say should carry lots of weight.
>
> (Why, we have one of that sort right here in ara-a.)
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Moonraker]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:T9fPa.198127$jT4.3773561@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> i assume you are referring to me, and i will answer you
moon....................................
> is it flaunting or assuring folks that it can be done?
>
>
> i am VERY PROUD and GRATEFUL for my 20+yrs of sobriety.
> why?
>

Your ego knows no bounds.

[rosie readandpost]

its not about my ego.......................if you knew me, you'd know that.
i truly do love AA and all its benefits.

have you relapsed and folks gave you a hard time about it?
is that what your expecting from me?
is that the problem?

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

ever wonder if we would care more about each other if we realized how much we have in common?
..............................R. Nagy




"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:LffPa.3719$zJ6.2081@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com.. .
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:T9fPa.198127$jT4.3773561@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > i assume you are referring to me, and i will answer you
> moon....................................
> > is it flaunting or assuring folks that it can be done?
> >
> >
> > i am VERY PROUD and GRATEFUL for my 20+yrs of sobriety.
> > why?
> >
>
> Your ego knows no bounds.
>
>
>

[Gregg Fowler]

You are welcome to put her in your kill file or just not read. This is
not an AA meeting, so you don't have to listen to it if you don't want
to. Personally, I believe any problem a person has can relate to or
aggravate their alcoholism. Personally, there's not much you have that I
would want. Your solution may not be the same as everyone else's.
Remember that the primary purpose is to carry the message to the
alcoholic who still suffers, not to bash them because their form of
suffering doesn't suit you.

Gregg

Moonraker wrote:
> I only know you by what you DO..not what you "perceive" yourself to be.
>
> I haven't relapsed. I came into the AA program a long time ago. I haven't
> needed to go back to try it again. And I'm well respected by my peers in
> the groups which I attend. They know I love to laugh and have a good
> time...but I'm also a no-nonsense sort in meetings.
>
> I've told more than one person to shut the fuck up when they get to babbling
> about their drug habit, diet pills, prozac, the live-in boyfriend abusing
> her kids, social security problems, a knocked-up slut daughter, or, my pet
> peeve..."there's no hurry to work the steps, you've got the rest of your
> life". I don't care if you have 20 minutes or 20 years in the program, I
> don't want to hear non-alcohol BS in an AA meeting. I WILL call you on it.
> Meetings are 60 precious minutes, and I'm there to work on MY sobriety
> which means staying in the solution today, not publicly discussing
> off-topic crap that needs to be taken up with a sponsor. If that's selfish,
> so be it.
>
> Just like I'll call somebody (anybody) on their posting about psych
> problems, bi-polarism, sexual perversions, being fat, flatulence, or
> what-have-you in this group. It's "addiction.alcoholism", not narcisism or
> athesim or bi-polarism or depression or cultism.
>
> So, now maybe you understand why "you" get zinged regularly. You mentioning
> your beautiful home, automobile, doctor husband, successful children,
> education, career, counseling business, ad nauseum only lead me to believe
> you think you are way superior to the rest of us. That you've experienced
> life in a way the rest of us should only dream of....
>
> For you to waste bandwith, reposting a 6K message so you can add "LOL" is
> nothing more than your egotism run rampant. Who the fuck CARES if you
> thought it was funny? Is it only worthwhile to read because Rosie added her
> stamp of approval?
>
> I laugh at a lot of things posted. I agree with lots of people's posts
> here. Even agree with you sometimes. My heart goes out to some, like JB.
> I may comment, I may not. My ego doesn't require me to answer posts with
> the nonsensical {{{{{{{{{{{ }}}}}}}}}}}.
>
> "Read and post daily. It annoys the fuck out of the rest of usenet."
>
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:MxfPa.198131$jT4.3774946@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>>its not about my ego.......................if you knew me, you'd know
>
> that.
>
>>i truly do love AA and all its benefits.
>>
>>have you relapsed and folks gave you a hard time about it?
>>is that what your expecting from me?
>>is that the problem?
>>
>>--
>>read and post daily, it works!
>>rosie
>>
>>ever wonder if we would care more about each other if we realized how much
>
> we have in common?
>
>>.............................R. Nagy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>
> news:LffPa.3719$zJ6.2081@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com.. .
>
>>>"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:T9fPa.198127$jT4.3773561@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>>
>>>>i assume you are referring to me, and i will answer you
>>>
>>>moon....................................
>>>
>>>>is it flaunting or assuring folks that it can be done?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>i am VERY PROUD and GRATEFUL for my 20+yrs of sobriety.
>>>>why?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Your ego knows no bounds.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

[rosie readandpost]

> Personally, I believe any problem a person has can relate to or
> aggravate their alcoholism.

you are not alone in your opinion gregg.
recovering from alcoholism is about every aspect of our lives. it is MUCH MORE than putting the plug in the jug.

CHANGING THE THINGS THAT WE CAN CHANGE, is a mandate that has not been wasted on me.
its not about bossing folks around, but rather listening and offering support where we can.

rosie

[Moonraker]

"Gregg Fowler" <gregg_fowler@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3F0DA709.9020200@NOSPAMhotmail.com...
> You are welcome to put her in your kill file or just not read. This is
> not an AA meeting, so you don't have to listen to it if you don't want
> to. Personally, I believe any problem a person has can relate to or
> aggravate their alcoholism. Personally, there's not much you have that I
> would want. Your solution may not be the same as everyone else's.
> Remember that the primary purpose is to carry the message to the
> alcoholic who still suffers, not to bash them because their form of
> suffering doesn't suit you.
>
> Gregg
>
Thank you for your comment.

I'm perfectly aware that I "could" not read or killfile Rosie
Blabandblather. I chose not to.

If your medical expertise is to treat the symptom instead of the disease of
alcoholism, I can see how you would react that way.

..

[Moonraker]

I don't exactly agree with you here. The disease of alcoholism IS pouring
alcohol down our throats.

We very well may have other physical and mental diseases and abnormal
personalities that we self-medicate with alcohol. I know I did.

But we often don't know what those diseases and disorders even are until we
get dried out.


"Gregg Fowler" <gregg_fowler@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:u92dneIYh8pVW5CiU-KYgw@comcast.com...
> Remember "Alcohol is but a symptom of our problems", the disease is much
> more than just pouring alcohol down our throats.
>
> Moonraker wrote:
> > "Gregg Fowler" <gregg_fowler@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:3F0DA709.9020200@NOSPAMhotmail.com...
> >
> >>You are welcome to put her in your kill file or just not read. This is
> >>not an AA meeting, so you don't have to listen to it if you don't want
> >>to. Personally, I believe any problem a person has can relate to or
> >>aggravate their alcoholism. Personally, there's not much you have that I
> >>would want. Your solution may not be the same as everyone else's.
> >>Remember that the primary purpose is to carry the message to the
> >>alcoholic who still suffers, not to bash them because their form of
> >>suffering doesn't suit you.
> >>
> >>Gregg
> >>
> >
> > Thank you for your comment.
> >
> > I'm perfectly aware that I "could" not read or killfile Rosie
> > Blabandblather. I chose not to.
> >
> > If your medical expertise is to treat the symptom instead of the disease
of
> > alcoholism, I can see how you would react that way.
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

[Plug]

> (Why, we have one of that sort right here in ara-a.)

Dozy Beans-on-Toast? Use your killfile daily - it works!

Deb
>

[Bobby L.]

Damn... you two should be married!

Bobby L



"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:NmiPa.47616$Sn5.8450@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com. ..
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:P3iPa.97588$fe.2022999@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > your attention to those details, says alot about you.
> >
> No more than it says about you for you to have mentioned all that, and
more.
> The fact that you said what you said in the first place is
> pretty indicitive of your nature and personality. What happened to
> humility, eh?
> >
> >
> > ROTFLMAO!
> >
> Ah, your derisive, demeaning "ROTFLAMO" again.
>
> I'm just wondering (outloud) can you say, "Gee. I never thought of it
> that way. You might be right." You don't even have to "think" I'm
right.
> I might not "be" right. But I take your ROTFLAMO as snide and nasty. Is
> that really how you mean it?
>
>
> > > "Read and post daily. It annoys the fuck out of the rest of usenet."
> >
> >
> > love you anyway moon!
>
> Ummm huh. You too. Don't like you very much at times, tho. ;>)
>
>
>

[Moonraker]

"Bobby L." <BobbyL2000nospam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:mUKPa.1487$Y_1.1401@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com.. .
> Damn... you two should be married!
>
> Bobby L
>
>
24-7-365 of that would have MY sobriety right out the window. 'Preciate the
thought, tho.

[catsruleok]

"Bobby L." <BobbyL2000nospam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:mUKPa.1487$Y_1.1401@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com.. .
> Damn... you two should be married!
>
> Bobby L
>
LOL. I'm just thought - if were married, they ought to imediately seek marriage guidance councilling
:^)).

JB

[Bobby L.]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:oaMPa.1427$Sf1.581@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com...
>
> "Bobby L." <BobbyL2000nospam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:mUKPa.1487$Y_1.1401@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com.. .
> > Damn... you two should be married!
> >
> > Bobby L
> >
> >
> 24-7-365 of that would have MY sobriety right out the window. 'Preciate
the
> thought, tho.
>
>
>

LOL --

[Blue Moon]

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:00:16 -0500, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:


>is it flaunting or assuring folks that it can be done?

That depends entirely on motive which can, of course, be entirely
obvious to everyone except the person with the motive.

--
Blue Moon

[rosie readandpost]

> That depends entirely on motive which can, of course, be entirely
> obvious to everyone except the person with the motive.
>
> --
> Blue Moon


..................or not!

welcome back bm!

[Blue Moon]

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:59:02 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>> That depends entirely on motive which can, of course, be entirely
>> obvious to everyone except the person with the motive.
>
>.................or not!
>
>welcome back bm!

Hey thanks! Yanno, it's good to get a break every now and then.

--
Blue Moon

[Bingo]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:NMjPa.48728$Sn5.46653@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com :

> I don't exactly agree with you here. The disease of alcoholism
> IS pouring alcohol down our throats.
>
> We very well may have other physical and mental diseases and
> abnormal personalities that we self-medicate with alcohol. I
> know I did.
>
> But we often don't know what those diseases and disorders even
> are until we get dried out.
>
>
> "Gregg Fowler" <gregg_fowler@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:u92dneIYh8pVW5CiU-KYgw@comcast.com...
>> Remember "Alcohol is but a symptom of our problems", the
>> disease is much more than just pouring alcohol down our
>> throats.
>>
>> Moonraker wrote:
>> > "Gregg Fowler" <gregg_fowler@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in
>> > message news:3F0DA709.9020200@NOSPAMhotmail.com...
>> >
>> >>You are welcome to put her in your kill file or just not
>> >>read. This is not an AA meeting, so you don't have to listen
>> >>to it if you don't want to. Personally, I believe any problem
>> >>a person has can relate to or aggravate their alcoholism.
>> >>Personally, there's not much you have that I would want. Your
>> >>solution may not be the same as everyone else's. Remember
>> >>that the primary purpose is to carry the message to the
>> >>alcoholic who still suffers, not to bash them because their
>> >>form of suffering doesn't suit you.
>> >>
>> >>Gregg
>> >>
>> >
>> > Thank you for your comment.
>> >
>> > I'm perfectly aware that I "could" not read or killfile Rosie
>> > Blabandblather. I chose not to.
>> >
>> > If your medical expertise is to treat the symptom instead of
>> > the disease
> of
>> > alcoholism, I can see how you would react that way.
>> >
>> > .
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>

If recovery were about not drinking, there would be no AA and no
need for steps.

[rosie readandpost]

>......................... the impotence of being drunk despite the very
> best of intentions not to be drunk.


yes, too much alcohol CAN cause that condition..............................
sorry bob, i couldn't resist!
:)

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:VCETa.41262$6a3.670481@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> >......................... the impotence of being drunk despite the very
> > best of intentions not to be drunk.
>
>
> yes, too much alcohol CAN cause that
condition..............................
> sorry bob, i couldn't resist!
> :)
>
>

Is that when you started to fake it?

Bob;-)

[Bingo]

"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in news:amDTa.9357
$3I1.3420@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com:

>
> "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93C1B3FD6243Bbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
>>
>> If recovery were about not drinking, there would be no AA and no
>> need for steps.
>
> Huh?
>
> And if ducks carried shotguns, there wouldn't be any snakes.
>
>
>
>

A better, more adult response might been. "what did you mean?" I have
no use this sarcastic shit.

And what I meant was that life's problems and how to solve them
without drinking is what recovery is about.

[Bingo]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:bfn1d5$gfs1f$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de:

>
> "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93C1B3FD6243Bbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
>>
>> If recovery were about not drinking, there would be no AA and
>> no need for steps.
>
> If recovery were about not pontificating, it would hold even
> less appeal. Particularly to those who have never experienced
> the one factor reportedly common to real alcoholics, the
> impotence of being drunk despite the very best of intentions not
> to be drunk.
>
> Bob
>
>

I suppose there's a message in there someplace.

[Robert McGregor]

"Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93C1E924C6D0Abillmicrosoftcom@63.240.76.16 ...
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> news:bfn1d5$gfs1f$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
> >
> > "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns93C1B3FD6243Bbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> >>
> >> If recovery were about not drinking, there would be no AA and
> >> no need for steps.
> >
> > If recovery were about not pontificating, it would hold even
> > less appeal. Particularly to those who have never experienced
> > the one factor reportedly common to real alcoholics, the
> > impotence of being drunk despite the very best of intentions not
> > to be drunk.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
> I suppose there's a message in there someplace.

"A better, more adult response might been. "what did you mean?"

Not to worry, it is way beyond the horizon of the superior coveter anyway.

Bob

[Gail]

Bingo wrote:
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in
> news:9BETa.41247$6a3.670729@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>
>>
>>> If recovery were about not drinking, there would be no AA and
>>> no need for steps.
>>
>>
>> imo, those that think its about "putting the plug in the jug"
>> and doing nothing else, either don't stay sober, die, or just
>> live absolutely miserable lives.
>>
>> i am constantly amazed when i hear folks asking about why they
>> are not HAPPY, JOYOUS and FREE, when they have done nothing to
>> gain that state of spiritual living, except stop drinking!
>>
>>

Rosie, I assume you are talking about Pauly, Johathan and a few others who
keep posting they got drunk and who just can't seem to quit drinking or
drugging for any length of time?

>>
>
> Right! I don't want what they have, despite their belief that I do.
> I suppose there are those very low-bottom drunks who ecstatic with
> just not drinking, but I'm not one of them.

[Gail]

Bingo wrote:
> "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in news:amDTa.9357
> $3I1.3420@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com:
>
>>
>> "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns93C1B3FD6243Bbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
>>>
>>> If recovery were about not drinking, there would be no AA and no
>>> need for steps.
>>
>> Huh?
>>
>> And if ducks carried shotguns, there wouldn't be any snakes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> A better, more adult response might been. "what did you mean?" I have
> no use this sarcastic shit.
>
> And what I meant was that life's problems and how to solve them
> without drinking is what recovery is about.

Not even solve the problems. Learning to cope with life's problems without a
drink is how I see it. Hell, I have never been able to solve my or anyone
else's problems, drunk or sober. I have learned that shit happens and I
accept (sometimes slowly) that it does and do what I have to in order to not
drink over that problem. The problem may still be there, but I am sober and
coping with it by using the steps and my higher power. Doesn't mean I am
going to do it perfectly or be perfect at the way I do it. Are you? I don't
want what you or Rosie have. I want what I have because I am staying sober
today. ;) I am working *MY* program.
Best,
Gail

[rosie readandpost]

> Rosie, I assume you are talking about Pauly, Johathan and a few others who
> keep posting they got drunk and who just can't seem to quit drinking or
> drugging for any length of time?
>


no gail,
i am not talking about them.
i am talking about ANYONE who thinks that quitting drinking is the only thing necessary, to start recovery from
alcoholism.

imo, there are MANY things that need to change when one quits drinking, or drugging.
"self medicating" included.

rosie

[rosie readandpost]

> I don't
> want what you or Rosie have. I want what I have because I am staying sober
> today. ;) I am working *MY* program.
> Best,
> Gail
>
>

back on the war path gail?
its a shame!

[Moonraker]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:_MQTa.45594$6a3.726318@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > I don't
> > want what you or Rosie have. I want what I have because I am staying
sober
> > today. ;) I am working *MY* program.
> > Best,
> > Gail
> >
> >
>
> back on the war path gail?
> its a shame!
>
>
What's a shame?

[rosie readandpost]

> >
> What's a shame?



to see gail so upset, that she starts slinging mud again.
i hope things level out for her soon!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

if past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians.
............................................. warren buffett



"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:OUQTa.17732$nL2.14327@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com ...
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:_MQTa.45594$6a3.726318@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > > I don't
> > > want what you or Rosie have. I want what I have because I am staying
> sober
> > > today. ;) I am working *MY* program.
> > > Best,
> > > Gail
> > >
> > >
> >
> > back on the war path gail?
> > its a shame!
> >
> >
> What's a shame?
>
>
>
>

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <oLQTa.45593$6a3.726243@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, rosie
readandpost <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> writes
>
>> Rosie, I assume you are talking about Pauly, Johathan and a few others who
>> keep posting they got drunk and who just can't seem to quit drinking or
>> drugging for any length of time?
>>
>
>
>no gail,
>i am not talking about them.
>i am talking about ANYONE who thinks that quitting drinking is the only
>thing necessary, to start recovery from
>alcoholism.
>
>imo, there are MANY things that need to change when one quits drinking,
>or drugging.
>"self medicating" included.

Following on from this: it occurred to me that I had not made a
constructive post for a while, having allowed myself to get dragged into
mudslinging - for which I would like to apologise to ALL involved and
those sick of watching it from the sidelines.

Firstly - I don't get drunk - I've had problems with alcohol in the past
that became much worse when I developed bi-polar depression. It has
taken time for the meds to do their stuff, but now I am achieving
stability. Coming off Seroxat/Paxil has made a very big difference and
my head seems much clearer. Finding BP ngs has also proved helpful.

This enabled me to think rationally about drink with the following
conclusions: if I'm feeling good - then I don't need to drink to make me
feel better; if I'm feeling lousy then drink will make me feel worse.
This does not leave much of a need for drink. That is not to say the
problem may not still be lurking, and a member of the local drug/alcohol
team will now be part of my ongoing treatment team until we know more -
not really practical before due to the hypomania.

I've also been able to look at my own behaviour and feelings - I may
have misunderstood step 4, but I looked at why I felt certain things and
behaved in certain ways - and how this impacted on myself and others. I
identified quite a few things that I didn't like - 'wrong' behaviours if
you like. So I am working to change these - why do I feel like I want to
do this? What am I going to achieve? How will I feel about it tomorrow?
Essentially I want to behave in a way that I will look on later as being
something to be content with. I may not have gone with AA but there are
certainly elements that I think can be very, very valuable.

Finally other changes - get to the gym every day, cut out caffeine to
reduce anxiety and using certain relaxation CDs to get me off to sleep -
am now sleeping better than for years. Volunteering for charity and
drama groups to take my mind off me, me, me.

So - the thought of drinking has not crossed my mind. I am sworn off the
stuff 'til late September at least when I hit 40. I will raise a glass
of something sparkling - but whether it will be Veuve Cliquot or
Cranberry Presse I don' t yet know.

And thanks to all on here - both to those who offered support - and for
those who did not and doubted. Being a bloody minded sod was sometimes
just the spur I needed! :-)
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Moonraker]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:J5RTa.45643$6a3.726555@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > >
> > What's a shame?
>
>
>
> to see gail so upset, that she starts slinging mud again.
> i hope things level out for her soon!
>

I didn't know Gail was upset about anything.....

Do you consider anyone who disagrees with you, and says so, as "slinging
mud"?

[rosie readandpost]

> Do you consider anyone who disagrees with you, and says so, as "slinging
> mud"?
>
>
>
>

bored, hon?

[Moonraker]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jjRTa.45649$6a3.729022@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> >> >
>
> bored, hon?
>
>
As usual, you evaded answering a direct question. Do you consider anyone
who disagrees with you, and says so, as "slinging
mud"?

[Robert McGregor]

Rosie, as an active drug addict, you are the acme of sanctimoneus hypocracy.

http://www.soulcare.org/Counseling/Medicine-Counseling.html

"If people do feel better when drinking alcohol or smoking marijuana, it is
because they feel better when their brain is impaired. Psychiatric drugs are
no different. The people . . . may feel less of their emotional suffering.
They may even reach a state of relative anesthesia. But to the degree that
they feel better, it is because they are experiencing intoxication with the
drugs."

From: "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
Message-ID: < wkHa.22568$fe.447991@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:31:22 GMT

>YES, whatever works!
>i belong to the "old school" of counting sobriety from the LAST
>drink/drug,
>but i don't expect
>everyone to do so, just because i did!
From: "rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <l%Rl5.19132$E05.337271@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>

actually, i would have to say that i have had GOOD long term experience with
the treatment of my depression over the past 13yrs.
i have however had to take several different meds as each once finally
"wears
out" and i need to change.



"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:J5RTa.45643$6a3.726555@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > >
> > What's a shame?
>
>
>
> to see gail so upset, that she starts slinging mud again.
> i hope things level out for her soon!
>
> --
> read and post daily, it works!
> rosie
>
> if past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be
librarians.
> ............................................ warren buffett
>
>
>
> "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:OUQTa.17732$nL2.14327@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com ...
> >
> > "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:_MQTa.45594$6a3.726318@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > >
> > > > I don't
> > > > want what you or Rosie have. I want what I have because I am staying
> > sober
> > > > today. ;) I am working *MY* program.
> > > > Best,
> > > > Gail
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > back on the war path gail?
> > > its a shame!
> > >
> > >
> > What's a shame?
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[rosie readandpost]

you missed my point moon.........................trying to start more shit, just isn't going to get it with
me......................
get a hobby, ok hon?

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

if past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians.
............................................. warren buffett



"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:FkRTa.17791$nL2.4076@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com. ..
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:jjRTa.45649$6a3.729022@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > >> >
> >
> > bored, hon?
> >
> >
> As usual, you evaded answering a direct question. Do you consider anyone
> who disagrees with you, and says so, as "slinging
> mud"?
>
>
>
>
>

[rosie readandpost]

i DON'T self medicate bob...........................i have a pdoc who does what is needed to be done, to treat my
depression. (i take nothing unless it is approved)
you KNOW this, but choose instead to infer otherwise.

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

if past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians.
............................................. warren buffett



"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:bfoosa$gvjn7$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:oLQTa.45593$6a3.726243@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > > Rosie, I assume you are talking about Pauly, Johathan and a few others
> who
> > > keep posting they got drunk and who just can't seem to quit drinking or
> > > drugging for any length of time?
> > >
> >
> >
> > no gail,
> > i am not talking about them.
> > i am talking about ANYONE who thinks that quitting drinking is the only
> thing necessary, to start recovery from
> > alcoholism.
> >
> > imo, there are MANY things that need to change when one quits drinking, or
> drugging.
> > "self medicating" included.
> >
> > rosie
> >
> "rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:<ZPSl5.19140$E05.340458@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>
>
> >i am thinking about asking my pdoc to increase my celexa to
> >60mg..........anyone else in here have good results with that dosage?
> >my 40mg seems to be "pooping out"...........
>
>

[rosie readandpost]

an active drug addict?
being prescribed antidepressants for the treatment of my chemical imbalance and following direction in their usage, is
not being active in drug addiction.

bored again bob?




--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

if past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians.
............................................. warren buffett



"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:bfootk$h82gg$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Rosie, as an active drug addict, you are the acme of sanctimoneus hypocracy.
>
> http://www.soulcare.org/Counseling/Medicine-Counseling.html
>
> "If people do feel better when drinking alcohol or smoking marijuana, it is
> because they feel better when their brain is impaired. Psychiatric drugs are
> no different. The people . . . may feel less of their emotional suffering.
> They may even reach a state of relative anesthesia. But to the degree that
> they feel better, it is because they are experiencing intoxication with the
> drugs."
>
> From: "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> Message-ID: < wkHa.22568$fe.447991@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:31:22 GMT
>
> >YES, whatever works!
> >i belong to the "old school" of counting sobriety from the LAST
> >drink/drug,
> >but i don't expect
> >everyone to do so, just because i did!
> From: "rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com>
> Message-ID: <l%Rl5.19132$E05.337271@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>
>
> actually, i would have to say that i have had GOOD long term experience with
> the treatment of my depression over the past 13yrs.
> i have however had to take several different meds as each once finally
> "wears
> out" and i need to change.
>
>
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:J5RTa.45643$6a3.726555@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > >
> > > What's a shame?
> >
> >
> >
> > to see gail so upset, that she starts slinging mud again.
> > i hope things level out for her soon!
> >
> > --
> > read and post daily, it works!
> > rosie
> >
> > if past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be
> librarians.
> > ............................................ warren buffett
> >
> >
> >
> > "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:OUQTa.17732$nL2.14327@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com ...
> > >
> > > "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:_MQTa.45594$6a3.726318@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > >
> > > > > I don't
> > > > > want what you or Rosie have. I want what I have because I am staying
> > > sober
> > > > > today. ;) I am working *MY* program.
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Gail
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > back on the war path gail?
> > > > its a shame!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > What's a shame?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Robert McGregor]

I am not inferring otherwise at all.

That a compliant doctors approval for your self medicating is merely rubber
stamping of your own decision is obvious.

Bob

> > "rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:<ZPSl5.19140$E05.340458@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>
> >
> > >i am thinking about asking my pdoc to increase my celexa to
> > >60mg..........anyone else in here have good results with that dosage?
> > >my 40mg seems to be "pooping out"...........




"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aLRTa.45658$6a3.730307@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> i DON'T self medicate bob...........................i have a pdoc who does
what is needed to be done, to treat my
> depression. (i take nothing unless it is approved)
> you KNOW this, but choose instead to infer otherwise.
>
> --
> read and post daily, it works!
> rosie
>
> if past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be
librarians.
> ............................................ warren buffett
>
>
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bfoosa$gvjn7$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:oLQTa.45593$6a3.726243@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > >
> > > > Rosie, I assume you are talking about Pauly, Johathan and a few
others
> > who
> > > > keep posting they got drunk and who just can't seem to quit drinking
or
> > > > drugging for any length of time?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > no gail,
> > > i am not talking about them.
> > > i am talking about ANYONE who thinks that quitting drinking is the
only
> > thing necessary, to start recovery from
> > > alcoholism.
> > >
> > > imo, there are MANY things that need to change when one quits
drinking, or
> > drugging.
> > > "self medicating" included.
> > >
> > > rosie
> > >
> > "rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:<ZPSl5.19140$E05.340458@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>
> >
> > >i am thinking about asking my pdoc to increase my celexa to
> > >60mg..........anyone else in here have good results with that dosage?
> > >my 40mg seems to be "pooping out"...........
> >
> >
>
>

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:HNRTa.45659$6a3.730361@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> an active drug addict?
> being prescribed antidepressants for the treatment of my chemical
imbalance and following direction in their usage, is
> not being active in drug addiction.
>
> bored again bob?
>

As opposed to rectifying attitudes that cause such an imbalance, should it
actually exist, you most certainly are a drug addict.

Bob

http://depression.about.com/cs/dysthymia/
Dysthymia is a milder, chronic form of depression. It may periodically have
episodes of major depression superimposed upon it. When this occurs, it is
known as "double depression".
http://www.apa.org/releases/antidep.html
Study Finds Psychotherapy and Anti-Depressants Equally Effective in Treating
Severely Depressed Primary-Care Patients

WASHINGTON - Researchers comparing the effectiveness of treating major
depression with either antidepressant medication or psychotherapy noted no
difference in the success of the two treatment methods after an eight-month
clinical investigation.

[Robert McGregor]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:UWRTa.17878$nL2.2843@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com. ..
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:aLRTa.45658$6a3.730307@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > i DON'T self medicate bob...........................i have a pdoc who
does
> what is needed to be done, to treat my
> > depression. (i take nothing unless it is approved)
>
> What the hell is a "pdoc"? Pain? Psychiatric? Pediatric?
>

Prescription Provider

[Moonraker]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gCRTa.45657$6a3.729837@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> you missed my point moon.........................trying to start more
shit, just isn't going to get it with
> me......................
> get a hobby, ok hon?
>

You never MADE a point. You have evaded the question, again.

Your dismissive reply can only lead one to assume that you "do" consider any
disagreement with your position de jour as "mudslinging" or "starting shit".

BTW, you can drop the condescending "hon" in talking to me. You are the
next to last person on the planet that I want any such familiarity with.

[rosie readandpost]

> You have evaded the question, again.
>

ROTFLMAO!
hon, you really don't get it...............
i don't want to clutter up this place with you, robert, and your obsession with me and my posts.
sorry, i don't want to "play".

[rosie readandpost]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:bfoqp6$grpk3$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:UWRTa.17878$nL2.2843@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com. ..


ok, ok, you two, play nice!

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:H6STa.45665$6a3.731253@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bfoqp6$grpk3$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:UWRTa.17878$nL2.2843@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com. ..
>
>
> ok, ok, you two, play nice!
>
>

LOL we would be differing with each other but for your bullshit cementing a
semblance of unity over the interesting anarchy here.

Bob

[Gail]

Moonraker wrote:
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:_MQTa.45594$6a3.726318@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>
>>> I don't
>>> want what you or Rosie have. I want what I have because I am
>>> staying sober today. ;) I am working *MY* program.
>>> Best,
>>> Gail
>>>
>>>
>>
>> back on the war path gail?
>> its a shame!

In fact, I am not on the war path. I am doing what I have to do for me and
my sobriety. Going to meetings, being around people in recovery and some WHO
AREN"T, and doing a fourth step again the way you people in AA suggest it be
done. Did you do one? All I said is that I didn't want what you or Bingo
have. There are lots of people who say they are in recovery who have what I
DO NOT WANT! I am sure there are people who do not want what I have either.
But, who is sicker? The one that throws accusations, name calling, keeping
the shit stirred or those who are attempting to do something about their
deffects and character? I am not mad or on the war path with anyone in this
group. Just disappointed with some, including you.
Gail

>>
>>
> What's a shame?

[Gail]

> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:_MQTa.45594$6a3.726318@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>
>>
>> back on the war path gail?
>> its a shame!
>>
>>


Well, since I am part Cherokee I have been practicing getting rid of evil
spirits. Hasn't worked yet, though...LOL I am still striving! I have the
rain dance down pat!

Best,
Gail

[rosie readandpost]

you know, until you responded to this , i NEVER gave that expression (war path) any thought.
i suppose its kind of racist, isn't it!

well, it will not be part of my vocabulary again.

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

if past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians.
............................................. warren buffett



"Gail" <leonard_gail@charter.net> wrote in message news:vi0495bevkeh31@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:_MQTa.45594$6a3.726318@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >>
> >>
> >> back on the war path gail?
> >> its a shame!
> >>
> >>
>
>
> Well, since I am part Cherokee I have been practicing getting rid of evil
> spirits. Hasn't worked yet, though...LOL I am still striving! I have the
> rain dance down pat!
>
> Best,
> Gail
>
>

[Gail]

rosie readandpost wrote:
>> In fact, I am not on the war path.
>
> good!
>
>
>
>> I am doing what I have to do for me and
>> my sobriety.
>
>
> also good!
>
>
>> Going to meetings, being around people in recovery and some WHO
>> AREN"T, and doing a fourth step again the way you people in AA
>> suggest it be
>> done.
>
> thats terrific!
> working with your sponsor, i assume?
>
>
>
>
>> Did you do one?
>
>
> OF COURSE!
> i believe the vast majority of old timers you meet in AA have done a
> fourth step!
> the steps are "suggestions only" but VERY HELPFUL ones, imo.
>
>
>
>> I am not mad or on the war path with anyone in this
>> group. Just disappointed with some, including you.
>> Gail
>
>
> don't put ANYONE on a pedestal gail, you are bound to be disappointed
> from time to time. ................we are not saints!

And neither am I...;)

[Gail]

Moonraker wrote:
> "Gail" <leonard_gail@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:vi0495bevkeh31@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>
>> Well, since I am part Cherokee I have been practicing getting rid of
>> evil spirits. Hasn't worked yet, though...LOL I am still striving!
>> I have the rain dance down pat!
>>
>> Best,
>> Gail
>>
>>
> Could you knock off that dancing for a while? We're about to drown
> down here with all the rain.

Yeah, I seen where you all are getting terrible weather. It is going all
around us, mostly to the North and South of us. We need some rain bad.
Memphis really got it bad the other day with straight line winds of 80 to
100 miles an hour. Those can be as bad or worse than a tornado. I didn't
dance for that kind of weather...;)
Gail

[Moonraker]

"Gail" <leonard_gail@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vi057heqm2ra5e@corp.supernews.com...
>> >
> > don't put ANYONE on a pedestal gail, you are bound to be disappointed
> > from time to time. ................we are not saints!
>
> And neither am I...;)
>
>

I've heard it said that an expectation is just a premeditated resentment.

[Gail]

Moonraker wrote:
> "Gail" <leonard_gail@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:vi057heqm2ra5e@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>
>>> don't put ANYONE on a pedestal gail, you are bound to be
>>> disappointed from time to time. ................we are not saints!
>>
>> And neither am I...;)
>>
>>
>
> I've heard it said that an expectation is just a premeditated
> resentment.

And do I have a lot of those right now! I think I have more expectations
than resentments, for now. Thanks for that suggestion..;) That makes sense.

[Gail]

Gail wrote:
> Moonraker wrote:

I didn't dance for that kind of weather...;)
> Gail

But then again, I am alcoholic and I do everything in extreme...;)

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <UWRTa.17878$nL2.2843@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
<fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> writes
>
>"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:aLRTa.45658$6a3.730307@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>> i DON'T self medicate bob...........................i have a pdoc who does
>what is needed to be done, to treat my
>> depression. (i take nothing unless it is approved)
>
>What the hell is a "pdoc"? Pain? Psychiatric? Pediatric?

Psychiatric. Used to distinguish from medical doctor which is purely the
physical side.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Bingo]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:bfnjhv$e8tlg$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de:

>
> "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93C1E924C6D0Abillmicrosoftcom@63.240.76.16 ...
>> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
>> news:bfn1d5$gfs1f$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de:
>>
>> >
>> > "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> > news:Xns93C1B3FD6243Bbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
>> >>
>> >> If recovery were about not drinking, there would be no AA
>> >> and no need for steps.
>> >
>> > If recovery were about not pontificating, it would hold even
>> > less appeal. Particularly to those who have never experienced
>> > the one factor reportedly common to real alcoholics, the
>> > impotence of being drunk despite the very best of intentions
>> > not to be drunk.
>> >
>> > Bob
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I suppose there's a message in there someplace.
>
> "A better, more adult response might been. "what did you mean?"
>
> Not to worry, it is way beyond the horizon of the superior
> coveter anyway.
>
> Bob
>
>
>

One of my favorite bumber stickers: Eschew Obfuscation.

[Gail]

"Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93C2AE393E365billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> "Gail" <leonard_gail@charter.net> wrote in
> news:vhulm7atr9v866@corp.supernews.com:
>
> > Bingo wrote:
> >> "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in news:amDTa.9357
> >> $3I1.3420@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:Xns93C1B3FD6243Bbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> >>>>
> >>>> If recovery were about not drinking, there would be no AA and
> >>>> no need for steps.
> >>>
> >>> Huh?
> >>>
> >>> And if ducks carried shotguns, there wouldn't be any snakes.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> A better, more adult response might been. "what did you mean?"
> >> I have no use this sarcastic shit.
> >>
> >> And what I meant was that life's problems and how to solve them
> >> without drinking is what recovery is about.
> >
> > Not even solve the problems. Learning to cope with life's
> > problems without a drink is how I see it. Hell, I have never
> > been able to solve my or anyone else's problems, drunk or sober.
> > I have learned that shit happens and I accept (sometimes slowly)
> > that it does and do what I have to in order to not drink over
> > that problem. The problem may still be there, but I am sober and
> > coping with it by using the steps and my higher power. Doesn't
> > mean I am going to do it perfectly or be perfect at the way I do
> > it. Are you? I don't want what you or Rosie have. I want what I
> > have because I am staying sober today. ;) I am working *MY*
> > program. Best,
> > Gail
> >
> >
>
> I actually agreed with your post until it became a personal attack
> and negated the whole thing. And THAT, you can keep.

Not an attack. Just an opinion. I do believe I said exactly what you had
previously stated in your post except for the word's solve and cope.. ;)
Have you heard of Rule's 62 & 63?

[Robert McGregor]

"Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93C2AF2AA3088billmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> news:bfnjhv$e8tlg$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
> >
> > "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns93C1E924C6D0Abillmicrosoftcom@63.240.76.16 ...
> >> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> >> news:bfn1d5$gfs1f$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > "Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:Xns93C1B3FD6243Bbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
> >> >>
> >> >> If recovery were about not drinking, there would be no AA
> >> >> and no need for steps.
> >> >
> >> > If recovery were about not pontificating, it would hold even
> >> > less appeal. Particularly to those who have never experienced
> >> > the one factor reportedly common to real alcoholics, the
> >> > impotence of being drunk despite the very best of intentions
> >> > not to be drunk.
> >> >
> >> > Bob
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> I suppose there's a message in there someplace.
> >
> > "A better, more adult response might been. "what did you mean?"
> >
> > Not to worry, it is way beyond the horizon of the superior
> > coveter anyway.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
>
> One of my favorite bumber stickers: Eschew Obfuscation.

Obfuscation in the eye of the beholder?

Bob

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:upTTa.45670$6a3.735605@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > A quick Google check reveals
> > that YOU have posted 1160 messages to this group since May1. I've
posted
> > 356 times. Robert has posted 460 times. Nearly 1 of 5 posts to the group
is
> > from you. I wonder where the obsession "really" lies? You've posted
> > almost 50% more times than Robert and I combined! You average nearly 14
> > posts per day.
> >
>
>
>
> imo, watching for, and posting to alcoholics who come here and share, is
what this support group is all about. go
> ahead and count ALL my posts to usenet, i do alot!
> its a great hobby for me!
> i will admit that i have not practiced "patience and tolerance" with you
and robert as well as i could, and i continue
> to work on it!
>

hahahaha, again, you're playing the victim! Why not practice your own
inventory of yourself, rather than blame us for your own failings?

Very revealing Rosie, that in all your verbosity, your actual experience in
resolving the numerous hurdles and misconceptions inherent in taking the 12
steps of recovery; is conspicuous only by it's absence.

Your claim to be sharing experience, strength and hope here is utter
bullshit. Smarmy pleading for others to post their experiences seems the
only way you can obtain more real life material as compensation for your
obvious (to those who have indeed taken the steps of recovery) poverty of
experience.

Your proclaimed belief,

"rosie readandpost" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Z0Sxa.60832$dl6.3522826@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> ATTRACTION, NOT PROMOTION is what we in AA are suppose to remember, and
abide by

can only perpetuate your hypocrisy.

Bob

[rosie readandpost]

> Very revealing Rosie, that in all your verbosity, your actual experience in
> resolving the numerous hurdles and misconceptions inherent in taking the 12
> steps of recovery; is conspicuous only by it's absence.

dear bob,
i don't understand when you say that i haven't shared my E,S&H?

it seems every time, (and i mean EVERY TIME) i post anything about "what it was like, what happened, and what its like
now" you, bm, moon, and gail, use it as ammunition for your latest attack of my sobriety, mental health, and my
authenticity.

you can't have it both ways hon!


--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

"In a few days they will show us another fat body with a beard and say it's Saddam."
ZOHAIR MATY, a 30-year-old Iraqi laborer, expressing skepticism that pictures of Saddam Hussein's sons' bodies were
authentic.

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Pp9Ua.38816$o27.712606@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Very revealing Rosie, that in all your verbosity, your actual experience
in
> > resolving the numerous hurdles and misconceptions inherent in taking the
12
> > steps of recovery; is conspicuous only by it's absence.
>
> dear bob,
> i don't understand when you say that i haven't shared my E,S&H?

That's all too sadly obvious
>
> it seems every time, (and i mean EVERY TIME) i post anything about "what
it was like, what happened, and what its like
> now" you, bm, moon, and gail, use it as ammunition for your latest attack
of my sobriety, mental health, and my
> authenticity.

read the actual wording of step 12!


Bob

[rosie readandpost]

>
> read the actual wording of step 12!
>
>
> Bob


why?
my interpretation of the step and that of many, many others, would NEVER be acceptable to you robert.

you must be getting a great "payoff" for living in such resentment.
i am sorry that you won't let me help you, but its your choice.

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

"In a few days they will show us another fat body with a beard and say it's Saddam."
ZOHAIR MATY, a 30-year-old Iraqi laborer, expressing skepticism that pictures of Saddam Hussein's sons' bodies were
authentic.






"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:bfr8q3$hpovj$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Pp9Ua.38816$o27.712606@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Very revealing Rosie, that in all your verbosity, your actual experience
> in
> > > resolving the numerous hurdles and misconceptions inherent in taking the
> 12
> > > steps of recovery; is conspicuous only by it's absence.
> >
> > dear bob,
> > i don't understand when you say that i haven't shared my E,S&H?
>
> That's all too sadly obvious
> >
> > it seems every time, (and i mean EVERY TIME) i post anything about "what
> it was like, what happened, and what its like
> > now" you, bm, moon, and gail, use it as ammunition for your latest attack
> of my sobriety, mental health, and my
> > authenticity.
>
> read the actual wording of step 12!
>
>
> Bob
>
>

[Moonraker]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Pp9Ua.38816$> i don't understand when you say that i haven't shared my
E,S&H?
>
> it seems every time, (and i mean EVERY TIME) i post anything about "what
it was like, what happened, and what its like
> now" you, bm, moon, and gail, use it as ammunition for your latest attack
of my sobriety, mental health, and my
> authenticity.
>
A correction please. "I" have NEVER questioned your sobriety. I just don't
agree with your particular brand of it. "There are those, too, who suffer
from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if
they have the capacity to be honest."

You may have 20+ years "alcohol-free", but you still are nuttier than Aunt
Edna's fruitcake.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different
results. I guess if you don't like getting called to task for posting
bullshit...try some horseshit for a change.

If they were tired of dodging "attacks", most sane people would either just
stop posting or change their MO.

"In a few days they will show us another fat body with a moustache and say
it's Rosie ReadandPost."
ZOHAIR MATY, a 30-year-old Iraqi laborer, expressing skepticism that posts
by RRAP claiming to have E,S, &H were
authentic.

[rosie readandpost]

> >> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message

> > you must be getting a great "payoff" for living in such resentment.
>


"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message

> It's boring, but you threw the challenge,
>



bored?

then robert, i encourage you to change the things that you CAN change...............
life is too short to be bored!
:(




--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

"In a few days they will show us another fat body with a beard and say it's Saddam."
ZOHAIR MATY, a 30-year-old Iraqi laborer, expressing skepticism that pictures of Saddam Hussein's sons' bodies were
authentic.

[rosie readandpost]

>And when you post that you are still
> using... we don't have to question your sobriety, you have confessed a lack
> thereof.
> > >


still using?
hon, are your referring to my antidepressant?


ROTFLMAO!

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:BfbUa.38848$o27.716209@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> bored?
>
> then robert, i encourage you to change the things that you CAN
change...............
> life is too short to be bored!
> :(

I can comprehend shit like that coming from someone popping pills rather
than endure the disciplines of recovery.

From: "rosie readandpost" <readandpostREMOVE@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <lWPra.32135$7l.558309@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>

> without treatment for my clinical depression, it was like working the 12
> STEPS with cement boots on.
> i stayed sober/dry , but without hope for quite some time.

Clearly, you have none of your own experience to share of "working" the 12
steps *without* cement boots

Perhaps you can at least comprehend where best to stick your advice.

Bob

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1fiUa.36225$7O4.729444@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bfs88r$iane0$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
>
>
>
> > ................than endure the disciplines of recovery.
> >
>
> you had to ENDURE?
> that explains alot!
>
It might too, but with your expressed intention *not* to recover, obviously
not explain anything meaningful to you. Recovery is simple, but not at all
easy.

Bob

[rosie readandpost]

> >
> > you had to ENDURE?
> > that explains alot!
> >
>> Recovery is simple, but not at all
> >easy.
>
> Bob
>
>
>

if my approach to life was as negative, paranoid, and as rigid as yours,
i might be thinking that recovery was something to ENDURE also.

.........................its not, so i don't!

recovery was a welcome release for me, and really was/is much easier, than life as a drunk!
YMMV, and probably does!

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dGiUa.51923$6a3.852504@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > >
> > > you had to ENDURE?
> > > that explains alot!
> > >
> >> Recovery is simple, but not at all
> > >easy.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
>
> if my approach to life was as negative, paranoid, and as rigid as yours,
> i might be thinking that recovery was something to ENDURE also.
>
> ........................its not, so i don't!
>
> recovery was a welcome release for me, and really was/is much easier, than
life as a drunk!
> YMMV, and probably does!
>
"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:A98Ka.109221$Xl.2092045@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> i will never be recovered..............................

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie@readandpost" wrote in Message
<uoCc6.24059$Af.608669@typhoon.mw.mediaone.net>

>if there is a "better" antidepressant out there, i sure would like to read
>about it!

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:z0jUa.51935$6a3.855455@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bfsebf$ilt9e$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > >if there is a "better" antidepressant out there, i sure would like to
read
> > >about it!
> >
> >
>
>

[Blue Moon]

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:52:56 -0400, "Moonraker"
<moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>"Bingo" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns93C1B3FD6243Bbillmicrosoftcom@204.127.199. 17...
>>
>> If recovery were about not drinking, there would be no AA and no
>> need for steps.
>
>Huh?

Bingo is quite right, though 'tis a common misconception in AA. Think
of it this way ... if my problem was alcohol, then all I have to do is
quit drinking and my life will get good. Just a little physical detox
may be all I need.

Alcoholism, as distinct from alcohol abuse, is the insanity that
>precedes< the first drink. Being powerless over how much alcohol I
can consume, I know I need to quit drinking. But, without relief, the
emotional unmanageability of life means that when I QUIT drinking life
eventually gets SO bad I have to eventually either drink again or just
die to find that relief.

The AA program is really about finding an alternative to alcohol for
that emotional relief. That alternative is the inner resource of what
some call a higher power. The resource is there for everyone, but
it's necessary to learn how to tap in and use it rather than using
drugs like alcohol to replace it.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:11:15 -0500, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>an active drug addict?
>being prescribed antidepressants for the treatment of my chemical imbalance and following direction in their usage, is
>not being active in drug addiction.

How do you define "drug addiction"?

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:06:28 -0500, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>OF COURSE!
>i believe the vast majority of old timers you meet in AA have done a fourth step!
>the steps are "suggestions only" but VERY HELPFUL ones, imo.

Curiously, many of the old timers I've encountered in meetings have
never done a 4th Step. Some of them clearly don't even comprehend the
first Step.

Whether that equates to "most" is unclear, but I'd steer clear of
making any assertion that the vast majority of old timers in AA have
done one. They may SAY they have... some may have done a life story
in a drying-out clinic. But just ask a few searching questions on the
subject and see how much conflicting nonsense you hear, some of which
is downright dangerous and totally contradicts the book.

>don't put ANYONE on a pedestal gail, you are bound to be disappointed from time to time.

Absolutely good advice. I've had my fair share of "off days" myself
lately, and don't want to be any example for how wonderful AA is.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:02:29 -0500, "Gail" <leonard_gail@charter.net>
wrote:

>Well, since I am part Cherokee

I thought that was some sort of car?

>I have the rain dance down pat!

Ah so that's where all the rain's been coming from!

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:30:39 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>it seems every time, (and i mean EVERY TIME) i post anything about "what it was like, what happened, and what its like
>now" you, bm, moon, and gail, use it as ammunition for your latest attack of my sobriety, mental health, and my
>authenticity.

Then it seems that your perception is still awry.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:26:27 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>still using?
>hon, are your referring to my antidepressant?

Given that antidepressants are often another chemical escape from
perceived reality, particularly for those with a predisposition to
addiction, I'd say so.

I'm still waiting for the answer to the very serious question about
why, if there's really a chemical imbalance and ADs work so well, it's
necessary for so many to have to change dosage and/or brands every few
months in order to readjust that balance.

Also waiting for an answer to the question as to how the imbalance is
tested in the first place.

Now I know that, for some reason, you consider these to be attacks
against you personally, and that is regrettable because it's simply
not true. I'm not trying to attack you, I was asking the questions
because you came across as being somehow knowledgeable on the subject.
So no, they're serious questions. If anyone taking ADs for years
can't answer such questions, then why on earth would anyone be messing
about with the ADs if it's not for emotional dependence? Emotional
dependence is, in another person's dictionary, ...."addiction".

--
Blue Moon

[Gail]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:00c727f89e5cd8a1b8e259c7549319d4@free.teranew s.com...
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:02:29 -0500, "Gail" <leonard_gail@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Well, since I am part Cherokee
>
> I thought that was some sort of car?
>
> >I have the rain dance down pat!
>
> Ah so that's where all the rain's been coming from!
>
> --
> Blue Moon

;) I think I over done it..

[Moonraker]

..
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:08:02 -0500, "rosie readandpost"
> <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >you know, until you responded to this , i NEVER gave that expression (war
path) any thought.
> >i suppose its kind of racist, isn't it!
> >
> >well, it will not be part of my vocabulary again.

I suppose this means you won't be rooting for the Washington Redskins, the
Cleveland Indians, the Atlanta Braves, the Chicago Blackhawks, or the FSU
Seminoles any time soon?

Do you think you could carry political correctness to any further extremes?
Sheeesh.

[Shawster]

"Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:cvnUa.831$jI6.8@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com...
>
> .
> > On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:08:02 -0500, "rosie readandpost"
> > <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >you know, until you responded to this , i NEVER gave that expression
(war
> path) any thought.
> > >i suppose its kind of racist, isn't it!
> > >
> > >well, it will not be part of my vocabulary again.
>
> I suppose this means you won't be rooting for the Washington Redskins, the
> Cleveland Indians, the Atlanta Braves, the Chicago Blackhawks, or the
FSU
> Seminoles any time soon?
>
> Do you think you could carry political correctness to any further
extremes?
> Sheeesh.

Well, I won't be driving a chevy chicano (low rider opption), or doing my
taxes on an IBM jew, so I don't see how it is OK to drive a cherokee, or any
of the hundreds of ways that native americans are slurred. Oh wait the
miami ohio towel heads are playing against the University of michagan
untouchables.


>
>
>
>

[Gail]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:E0oUa.18398$BB6.491410@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
>
> "Moonraker" <moonrak9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:cvnUa.831$jI6.8@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com...
> >
> > .
> > > On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:08:02 -0500, "rosie readandpost"
> > > <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >you know, until you responded to this , i NEVER gave that expression
> (war
> > path) any thought.
> > > >i suppose its kind of racist, isn't it!
> > > >
> > > >well, it will not be part of my vocabulary again.
> >
> > I suppose this means you won't be rooting for the Washington Redskins,
the
> > Cleveland Indians, the Atlanta Braves, the Chicago Blackhawks, or the
> FSU
> > Seminoles any time soon?
> >
> > Do you think you could carry political correctness to any further
> extremes?
> > Sheeesh.
>
> Well, I won't be driving a chevy chicano (low rider opption), or doing my
> taxes on an IBM jew, so I don't see how it is OK to drive a cherokee, or
any
> of the hundreds of ways that native americans are slurred. Oh wait the
> miami ohio towel heads are playing against the University of michagan
> untouchables.
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Hey guys, you all are going way over this ole girl from Tennessee's
head...LOL

[Gail]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e90299ad0422fe5f2b6e7a7150a5d99f@free.teranew s.com...
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:33:07 -0500, "Gail" <leonard_gail@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Rosie, I assume you are talking about Pauly, Johathan and a few others
who
> >keep posting they got drunk and who just can't seem to quit drinking or
> >drugging for any length of time?
>
> Those who are not alcoholic would have no need to recover from
> alcoholism. It would like me going to a cancer specialist for
> treatment of a headache.
>
> --
> Blue Moon

Call me dumb, and I know you will, ;) but I don't understand. Are they not
alcoholic or did I say something misleading? I do that sometimes..;)
Gail

[Moonraker]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:E0oUa.18398$BB6.491410@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...

> I don't see how it is OK to drive a cherokee, or any
> of the hundreds of ways that native americans are slurred.

I don't see how any of these common usages "are" a slur. I guess you don't
drive a Pontiac or Cadillac or never did your schoolwork on a Big Chief
tablet? I consider the use of Indian names and terminology in all those
contexts as a mark of honor and respect.

Oklahoma will have to change all their license plates because they say
"Indian Nation" (or did). New Mexico will have to rename a bunch of
cities, as will Texas, NewYork, Oklahoma, Colorado, and Wyoming. Florida
will have to rename some counties, as will Mississippi. Hell, we'll have to
rename Missouri, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio, the Dakotas, Illinois, Utah, and
probably a few more I can't think of now. The KC Chiefs NFL team will be
history. We'll be renaming rivers and lakes from now on...no more Osage
River or Lake of the Ozarks or Gravois River or Indian Creek in Missouri.
Florida will have to rename a whole fruit industry. No more Indian River
grapefruit for me......

I'm surprised Jesse Jackson hasn't thrown a fit about the Cleveland "Browns"
or the Chicago "White" Sox. Can you imagine what would happen if the
Audobon Society and PETA got started on this? There go the Orioles,
Cardinals, BlueJays, Hawks, Falcons, and Seahawks. Not to mention the
Lions, Tigers, Bears, Cubs, Marlins, Gators, Diamondbacks (wouldn't wanna
slur a snake, would we?), Dolphins, Bulldogs, Rams, or Badgers.

When does the pendulum swing away from all this political correctness
nonsense, anyway?

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <aWoUa.665$oq.563@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
<fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> writes
>When does the pendulum swing away from all this political correctness
>nonsense, anyway?

Perhaps when bigotry and prejudice have become insignificant?
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Blue Moon]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:33:02 -0500, "Gail"
<serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:e90299ad0422fe5f2b6e7a7150a5d99f@free.teranew s.com...
>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:33:07 -0500, "Gail" <leonard_gail@charter.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Rosie, I assume you are talking about Pauly, Johathan and a few others
>who
>> >keep posting they got drunk and who just can't seem to quit drinking or
>> >drugging for any length of time?
>>
>> Those who are not alcoholic would have no need to recover from
>> alcoholism. It would like me going to a cancer specialist for
>> treatment of a headache.
>
>Call me dumb, and I know you will, ;)

As if I would! ;)

>but I don't understand. Are they not alcoholic or did I say something
>misleading? I do that sometimes..;)

Depends on your definition of "alcoholic". Big difference between
"alcohol abuse" and "alcohol dependency" (alcoholic). Unfortunately,
until the individual makes a decision to quit drinking, they'll not
know which category they were in. And many in AA don't seem to
realise the difference either - seem to think that any teenager who
gets drunk is, by definition, alcoholic. That's not the case.
"Alcoholic" is really a word to describe the insanity that precedes
the first drink. In my book anyway :) That's part of the problem
with this newsgroup - nobody can even agree on a definition of the
problem, so there's no chance everyone will agree on the solution.

Personally, I suspect that anyone who abuses alcohol for long enough
will eventually become alcoholic. For an alcoholic, alcohol is a
magic solution to life's problems. But not everyone who drinks abuses
alcohol. My grandfather was a daily drinker, but he was definitely no
alcoholic. He never even got drunk, just enjoyed a daily tipple. I
was often not a daily drinker, but it turned out I certainly was
alcoholic.

--
Blue Moon

[Robert McGregor]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4084ca83fc992a260721b7749acef69c@free.teranew s.com...
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:33:02 -0500, "Gail"
> <serenity6850_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:e90299ad0422fe5f2b6e7a7150a5d99f@free.teranew s.com...
> >> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:33:07 -0500, "Gail" <leonard_gail@charter.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Rosie, I assume you are talking about Pauly, Johathan and a few others
> >who
> >> >keep posting they got drunk and who just can't seem to quit drinking
or
> >> >drugging for any length of time?
> >>
> >> Those who are not alcoholic would have no need to recover from
> >> alcoholism. It would like me going to a cancer specialist for
> >> treatment of a headache.
> >
> >Call me dumb, and I know you will, ;)
>
> As if I would! ;)
>
> >but I don't understand. Are they not alcoholic or did I say something
> >misleading? I do that sometimes..;)
>
> Depends on your definition of "alcoholic". Big difference between
> "alcohol abuse" and "alcohol dependency" (alcoholic). Unfortunately,
> until the individual makes a decision to quit drinking, they'll not
> know which category they were in. And many in AA don't seem to
> realise the difference either - seem to think that any teenager who
> gets drunk is, by definition, alcoholic. That's not the case.
> "Alcoholic" is really a word to describe the insanity that precedes
> the first drink. In my book anyway :) That's part of the problem
> with this newsgroup - nobody can even agree on a definition of the
> problem, so there's no chance everyone will agree on the solution.
>
> Personally, I suspect that anyone who abuses alcohol for long enough
> will eventually become alcoholic. For an alcoholic, alcohol is a
> magic solution to life's problems. But not everyone who drinks abuses
> alcohol. My grandfather was a daily drinker, but he was definitely no
> alcoholic. He never even got drunk, just enjoyed a daily tipple. I
> was often not a daily drinker, but it turned out I certainly was
> alcoholic.
>
> --
> Blue Moon

Then there are the many non alcoholic AA recruits who become alcoholic with
the power of auto suggestion.

Bob

[Shawster]

> > >> >Rosie, I assume you are talking about Pauly, Johathan and a few
others
> > >who
> > >> >keep posting they got drunk and who just can't seem to quit drinking
> or
> > >> >drugging for any length of time?
> > >>
> > >> Those who are not alcoholic would have no need to recover from
> > >> alcoholism. It would like me going to a cancer specialist for
> > >> treatment of a headache.
> > >
> > >Call me dumb, and I know you will, ;)
> >
> > As if I would! ;)
> >
> > >but I don't understand. Are they not alcoholic or did I say something
> > >misleading? I do that sometimes..;)
> >
> > Depends on your definition of "alcoholic". Big difference between
> > "alcohol abuse" and "alcohol dependency" (alcoholic). Unfortunately,
> > until the individual makes a decision to quit drinking, they'll not
> > know which category they were in. And many in AA don't seem to
> > realise the difference either - seem to think that any teenager who
> > gets drunk is, by definition, alcoholic. That's not the case.
> > "Alcoholic" is really a word to describe the insanity that precedes
> > the first drink. In my book anyway :) That's part of the problem
> > with this newsgroup - nobody can even agree on a definition of the
> > problem, so there's no chance everyone will agree on the solution.
> >
> > Personally, I suspect that anyone who abuses alcohol for long enough
> > will eventually become alcoholic. For an alcoholic, alcohol is a
> > magic solution to life's problems. But not everyone who drinks abuses
> > alcohol. My grandfather was a daily drinker, but he was definitely no
> > alcoholic. He never even got drunk, just enjoyed a daily tipple. I
> > was often not a daily drinker, but it turned out I certainly was
> > alcoholic.
> >
> > --
> > Blue Moon
>
> Then there are the many non alcoholic AA recruits who become alcoholic
with
> the power of auto suggestion.

And many alcoholics that deny their condition despite any suggestion from
AA's.

[rosie readandpost]

... if my problem was alcohol, then all I have to do is
> quit drinking and my life will get good. Just a little physical detox
> may be all I need.
>
>

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, the sober horse thief!

[rosie readandpost]

> Curiously, many of the old timers I've encountered in meetings have
> never done a 4th Step. Some of them clearly don't even comprehend the
> first Step.
>
>

WHAT are you doing in meetings like that?
run, as fast as you can!
:)

[rosie readandpost]

> I suppose this means you won't be rooting for the Washington Redskins, the
> Cleveland Indians, the Atlanta Braves, the Chicago Blackhawks, or the FSU
> Seminoles any time soon?
>
> Do you think you could carry political correctness to any further extremes?
> Sheeesh.
>
>
>

ACTUALLY, i am one "of those" folks who believe that the CHOP SHIT, the atlanta braves fans do, IS offensive.
i also support the teams that get their act together and move into the 21st century!

(just as i would find it offensive, and say so, if ALL GERMANS were blamed for the holocaust!)

[rosie readandpost]

> I don't see how any of these common usages "are" a slur. ....................................... or never did your
schoolwork on a Big Chief
> tablet?


sure i did!
i grew up rooting for the MARQUETTE WARRIORS too!

(they changed their name, out of respect for the NATIVE AMERICANS!)

lots of folks find this whole PC movement: "stupid" "going overboard" "unnecessary" etc etc etc.
in my experience those that do the MOST complaining, are white, 40-50ish, lower middle class men!
(and NO, i'm not being "classiest" its just the demographics!)

[rosie readandpost]

>
> Perhaps when bigotry and prejudice have become insignificant?
> --
> Jonathan Bratt


quick jonathan, DUCK>INCOMING!
:)

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

Little things affect little minds.
.....................Benjamin Disraeli



"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message news:TelL0AiMEiI$Ewmw@aol.com...
> In message <aWoUa.665$oq.563@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com>, Moonraker
> <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> writes
> >When does the pendulum swing away from all this political correctness
> >nonsense, anyway?
>
> Perhaps when bigotry and prejudice have become insignificant?
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

[rosie readandpost]

>do you really think
> that they were named for negros?


good lord!
hello shaw?


--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

Little things affect little minds.
.....................Benjamin Disraeli



"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message news:p_vUa.18483$BB6.526003@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
>
> "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:aWoUa.665$oq.563@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> >
> > "Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:E0oUa.18398$BB6.491410@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
> >
> > > I don't see how it is OK to drive a cherokee, or any
> > > of the hundreds of ways that native americans are slurred.
> >
> > I don't see how any of these common usages "are" a slur. I guess you
> don't
> > drive a Pontiac or Cadillac or never did your schoolwork on a Big Chief
> > tablet? I consider the use of Indian names and terminology in all those
> > contexts as a mark of honor and respect.
> >
> > Oklahoma will have to change all their license plates because they say
> > "Indian Nation" (or did). New Mexico will have to rename a bunch of
> > cities, as will Texas, NewYork, Oklahoma, Colorado, and Wyoming. Florida
> > will have to rename some counties, as will Mississippi. Hell, we'll have
> to
> > rename Missouri, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio, the Dakotas, Illinois, Utah, and
> > probably a few more I can't think of now. The KC Chiefs NFL team will be
> > history. We'll be renaming rivers and lakes from now on...no more Osage
> > River or Lake of the Ozarks or Gravois River or Indian Creek in Missouri.
> > Florida will have to rename a whole fruit industry. No more Indian River
> > grapefruit for me......
>
> Except that those areas were named by the natives themselves. I am talking
> about modern people marketing items and teams using racial epithets and
> slurs. I can't really comment on the Cleveland Browns, do you really think
> that they were named for negros?
>
> How about if we rename teams the New york WOPS or the SanDiego wet backs? do
> you see the point? Then again look at whom I am corresponding to.
>
>
> > When does the pendulum swing away from all this political correctness
> > nonsense, anyway?
>
> Funny thing about pendulums, they swing both ways.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[rosie readandpost]

"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:dde6a8efe71ef511cd96e516fc38d81d@free.teranew s.com...

>Given that antidepressants are often another chemical escape from
>perceived reality, particularly for those with a predisposition to
>addiction, I'd say so.

then BM, you are remaining UNEDUCATED on this subject.
perhaps your relapse was connected to your stubborn streak?

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

Little things affect little minds.
.....................Benjamin Disraeli



"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:dde6a8efe71ef511cd96e516fc38d81d@free.teranew s.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:26:27 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
> <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >still using?
> >hon, are your referring to my antidepressant?
>
> Given that antidepressants are often another chemical escape from
> perceived reality, particularly for those with a predisposition to
> addiction, I'd say so.
>
> I'm still waiting for the answer to the very serious question about
> why, if there's really a chemical imbalance and ADs work so well, it's
> necessary for so many to have to change dosage and/or brands every few
> months in order to readjust that balance.
>
> Also waiting for an answer to the question as to how the imbalance is
> tested in the first place.
>
> Now I know that, for some reason, you consider these to be attacks
> against you personally, and that is regrettable because it's simply
> not true. I'm not trying to attack you, I was asking the questions
> because you came across as being somehow knowledgeable on the subject.
> So no, they're serious questions. If anyone taking ADs for years
> can't answer such questions, then why on earth would anyone be messing
> about with the ADs if it's not for emotional dependence? Emotional
> dependence is, in another person's dictionary, ...."addiction".
>
> --
> Blue Moon

[Jonathan Bratt]

In message <y7xUa.40663$o27.773964@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, rosie
readandpost <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> writes
>>
>> Perhaps when bigotry and prejudice have become insignificant?
>> --
>> Jonathan Bratt
>
>
>quick jonathan, DUCK>INCOMING!
>:)
Oh - I think my defences may be a little stronger than the attack.
--
Jonathan Bratt

[Blue Moon]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:16:44 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>
>> Curiously, many of the old timers I've encountered in meetings have
>> never done a 4th Step. Some of them clearly don't even comprehend the
>> first Step.
>>
>>
>
>WHAT are you doing in meetings like that?
>run, as fast as you can!
>:)

Rosie, if I did that there'd be no meetings left to go to. If you
want to find someone who hasn't worked a 4th Step, wake up and look
around. Saying that, I suspect it's necessary to comprehend the Step
before being able to figure out who's really worked it or not.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:27:04 +0100, Jonathan Bratt
<jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote:

>In message <y7xUa.40663$o27.773964@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, rosie
>readandpost <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> writes
>>>
>>> Perhaps when bigotry and prejudice have become insignificant?
>>> --
>>> Jonathan Bratt
>>
>>
>>quick jonathan, DUCK>INCOMING!
>>:)
>Oh - I think my defences may be a little stronger than the attack.

And perhaps part of your problem is the perception that they need to
be.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:28:58 GMT, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>
>> I don't see how any of these common usages "are" a slur. ....................................... or never did your
>schoolwork on a Big Chief
>> tablet?
>
>
>sure i did!
>i grew up rooting for the MARQUETTE WARRIORS too!
>
>(they changed their name, out of respect for the NATIVE AMERICANS!)
>
>lots of folks find this whole PC movement: "stupid" "going overboard" "unnecessary" etc etc etc.
>in my experience those that do the MOST complaining, are white, 40-50ish, lower middle class men!
>(and NO, i'm not being "classiest" its just the demographics!)

Is that the group of people you mix with the most? If so, you'd
obviously get that perception. Start mixing with other types, and
your perception will change.

--
Blue Moon

[Moonraker]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Z1xUa.40608$o27.773328@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > I suppose this means you won't be rooting for the Washington Redskins,
the
> > Cleveland Indians, the Atlanta Braves, the Chicago Blackhawks, or the
FSU
> > Seminoles any time soon?
> >
> > Do you think you could carry political correctness to any further
extremes?
> > Sheeesh.
> >
> >
> >
>
> ACTUALLY, i am one "of those" folks who believe that the CHOP SHIT, the
atlanta braves fans do, IS offensive.
> i also support the teams that get their act together and move into the
21st century!

It was OK when they were the Milwaukee Braves, tho? It's only offensive to
those sorry ass loser teams like the Twins or Brewers.

Actually that started at Florida State University with the Seminole fans.



>
> (just as i would find it offensive, and say so, if ALL GERMANS were blamed
for the holocaust!)
>
>
>

[rosie readandpost]

> I notice you've quit spouting
> about that beloved pamphlet since it was shown that it actually
> SUPPORTS the above view despite your previous allegations to the
> contrary.
>


i have stopped mentioning it, because it just causes more crap in here than its worth.
your interpretation is not that of GSO!

[rosie readandpost]

> It was OK when they were the Milwaukee Braves, tho?


the milwaukee braves
1953-1965
we didn't do the CHOP....................that apparently is an southern thing.

[Moonraker]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:p_vUa.18483$BB6.526003@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
>
> >
I can't really comment on the Cleveland Browns, do you really think
> that they were named for negros?

That's the point....the politically correct crowd will attack any "imagined"
slight. Should the Texas Rangers be renamed because the Mafia is offended
by an image of law and order? Will Debtors Anonymous be offended by the
"Chargers"?


> How about if we rename teams the New york WOPS or the SanDiego wet backs?
do
> you see the point?

No. Did you make one? My maternal grandmother was born on an Indian
reservation in the Oklahoma Territory. Her mother was a full blooded
Cherokee and her father was a white trader. That makes me 1/8 Cherokee.
I'm not at all offended by any reference to Native American peoples or
customs in advertising or marketing. I'm proud of that heritage. Why does
any of this bother you?

> > When does the pendulum swing away from all this political correctness
> > nonsense, anyway?
>
> Funny thing about pendulums, they swing both ways.

sometimes they get stuck to one side and need a nudge.

> >

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vCGUa.53584$6a3.965229@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > I notice you've quit spouting
> > about that beloved pamphlet since it was shown that it actually
> > SUPPORTS the above view despite your previous allegations to the
> > contrary.
> >
>
>
> i have stopped mentioning it, because it just causes more crap in here
than its worth.


Heaven forbid you ever find a cure for your constipation!

Bob

[Moonraker]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vCGUa.53584$6a3.965229@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > I notice you've quit spouting
> > about that beloved pamphlet since it was shown that it actually
> > SUPPORTS the above view despite your previous allegations to the
> > contrary.
> >
>
>
> i have stopped mentioning it, because it just causes more crap in here
than its worth.
> your interpretation is not that of GSO!
>
>

I see. Disagreeing with Rosie is "causing crap". GSO apparently has NO
interpretation, since the pamphlet is 30 years old and out of print. I have
the GSO order form for pamphlets right in front of me. T'aint there. Can't
get it.

[Moonraker]

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zUGUa.53589$6a3.967284@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> > I see. Disagreeing with Rosie is "causing crap". GSO apparently has NO
> > interpretation, since the pamphlet is 30 years old and out of print. I
have
> > the GSO order form for pamphlets right in front of me. T'aint there.
Can't
> > get it.
> >
> >
> >
>
> you just aren't keeping up, are you?
> your just looking for a fight..................................and instead
you are looking like an idiot!
>
> it IS in print.....................check the GSO literature ordering form,
something a little more current that the one
> you keep saying is right in front of you!
>
What part of me telling you it isn't on the list I have didn't you
comprehend? I have a 4 or 5 month old PI kit from GSO and that pamphlet is
NOT on my order forms.

[Blue Moon]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 21:21:26 -0500, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>your interpretation is not that of GSO!

My interpretation seems to quite accurately reflect that printed in
the pamphlet. So in what way is my interpretation NOT that of GSO?

--
Blue Moon

[rosie readandpost]

> What part of me telling you it isn't on the list I have didn't you
> comprehend? I have a 4 or 5 month old PI kit from GSO and that pamphlet is
> NOT on my order forms.
>
>
>
>

your PI kit was put together with dated material, would be my guess.
the pamphlet is INDEED still in print.
you would know that, if you were truly interested in facts, and not just arguing.

http://www.aa.org/default/en_about_aa_sub.cfm?subpageid=25&pageid=24