A new moment of clarity

[Dan McGown]

Monday night, I took my 14 year old son (yeah, I have grandsons 9 and
11, but I'm finally out of production now <g>) to the Norah Jones concert at
the Nautica pavilion in Cleveland. I'm lucky that my son has been very
pleased that I have got dry and is really supportive.

While we were waiting for it all to start, I was watching the people
walking through the aisles and I had an additional moment of clarity. I
asked myself if I really craved one of those beers and I was surprised at
the honesty of my own answer, which was that no, I didn't crave one of those
beers - what I wanted was to be drunk.

I didn't just want a beer or even a drink. For that matter, I didn't
even just want a bunch of beers or drinks. I would have liked the drinking,
but what I really wanted was the sensation, the feeling, the experience of
being lit, hammered, skunked, tight, drunk.

It was an important self insight for me because it answers that age-old
question that is really just the demon trying to regain control: "If I stay
dry long enough, can I go back to being a normal drinker?"

Friends, I can't presume to answer that question for all people, but
for me the answer is clearly that being a normal drinker isn't really even
on my list of desires. I'm not tempted to drink. I'm tempted to be drunk.
That isn't now and is never going to be a normal drinker.

Realizing that, I laughed out loud. The demon inside me is a liar and
I caught him in his lie. Most people over 50 know that old Pogo Possum
line: "We have met the enemy and he is us." As an alcoholic, I have to keep
reminding myself that the enemy resides in me, uses my brain and my thoughts
and my mouth. Since that is the case, I can't fight him by myself. I need
outside help to be able to catch him when he uses myself against me.
Whether I call that outside help, that Higher Power, by the name of God or
the group or the traditions is irrelevant. It isn't the name; it's the
substance.

God, thank you for tipping my hand. Thank you for reminding me that I
try to deceive myself.

[rosie readandpost]

thanks for sharing your "discovery" dan!
i remember being amazed with the discovery, that i NEVER really wanted ONE drink............................in fact, if
all i could have was ONE drink, i usually passed!
one was NEVER enough!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

ever wonder if we would care more about each other if we realized how much we have in common?
..............................R. Nagy




"Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:euePa.11187$Hw.8457987@news2.news.adelphia.ne t...
> Monday night, I took my 14 year old son (yeah, I have grandsons 9 and
> 11, but I'm finally out of production now <g>) to the Norah Jones concert at
> the Nautica pavilion in Cleveland. I'm lucky that my son has been very
> pleased that I have got dry and is really supportive.
>
> While we were waiting for it all to start, I was watching the people
> walking through the aisles and I had an additional moment of clarity. I
> asked myself if I really craved one of those beers and I was surprised at
> the honesty of my own answer, which was that no, I didn't crave one of those
> beers - what I wanted was to be drunk.
>
> I didn't just want a beer or even a drink. For that matter, I didn't
> even just want a bunch of beers or drinks. I would have liked the drinking,
> but what I really wanted was the sensation, the feeling, the experience of
> being lit, hammered, skunked, tight, drunk.
>
> It was an important self insight for me because it answers that age-old
> question that is really just the demon trying to regain control: "If I stay
> dry long enough, can I go back to being a normal drinker?"
>
> Friends, I can't presume to answer that question for all people, but
> for me the answer is clearly that being a normal drinker isn't really even
> on my list of desires. I'm not tempted to drink. I'm tempted to be drunk.
> That isn't now and is never going to be a normal drinker.
>
> Realizing that, I laughed out loud. The demon inside me is a liar and
> I caught him in his lie. Most people over 50 know that old Pogo Possum
> line: "We have met the enemy and he is us." As an alcoholic, I have to keep
> reminding myself that the enemy resides in me, uses my brain and my thoughts
> and my mouth. Since that is the case, I can't fight him by myself. I need
> outside help to be able to catch him when he uses myself against me.
> Whether I call that outside help, that Higher Power, by the name of God or
> the group or the traditions is irrelevant. It isn't the name; it's the
> substance.
>
> God, thank you for tipping my hand. Thank you for reminding me that I
> try to deceive myself.
>
>

[Shawster]

yeah, but how was the concert?? ;o)

Norah Jones is awesome. I Dl'd all her music at the suggestion of a friend,
I had no idea that she was 22. she sounds like she has years behind her
voice.


"Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:euePa.11187$Hw.8457987@news2.news.adelphia.ne t...
> Monday night, I took my 14 year old son (yeah, I have grandsons 9 and
> 11, but I'm finally out of production now <g>) to the Norah Jones concert
at
> the Nautica pavilion in Cleveland. I'm lucky that my son has been very
> pleased that I have got dry and is really supportive.
>
> While we were waiting for it all to start, I was watching the people
> walking through the aisles and I had an additional moment of clarity. I
> asked myself if I really craved one of those beers and I was surprised at
> the honesty of my own answer, which was that no, I didn't crave one of
those
> beers - what I wanted was to be drunk.
>
> I didn't just want a beer or even a drink. For that matter, I didn't
> even just want a bunch of beers or drinks. I would have liked the
drinking,
> but what I really wanted was the sensation, the feeling, the experience of
> being lit, hammered, skunked, tight, drunk.
>
> It was an important self insight for me because it answers that
age-old
> question that is really just the demon trying to regain control: "If I
stay
> dry long enough, can I go back to being a normal drinker?"
>
> Friends, I can't presume to answer that question for all people, but
> for me the answer is clearly that being a normal drinker isn't really even
> on my list of desires. I'm not tempted to drink. I'm tempted to be
drunk.
> That isn't now and is never going to be a normal drinker.
>
> Realizing that, I laughed out loud. The demon inside me is a liar
and
> I caught him in his lie. Most people over 50 know that old Pogo Possum
> line: "We have met the enemy and he is us." As an alcoholic, I have to
keep
> reminding myself that the enemy resides in me, uses my brain and my
thoughts
> and my mouth. Since that is the case, I can't fight him by myself. I
need
> outside help to be able to catch him when he uses myself against me.
> Whether I call that outside help, that Higher Power, by the name of God or
> the group or the traditions is irrelevant. It isn't the name; it's the
> substance.
>
> God, thank you for tipping my hand. Thank you for reminding me that
I
> try to deceive myself.
>
>
>

[Dan McGown]

By the way, Rosie, I know that this isn't a new "discovery" in the
history of the world or even a new discovery for myself.

The fact that it is a repeated message in the Big Book, or even that it
has been read by the affected person, doesn't mean that the message has been
recieved or the lesson learned.

The critical "insight" wasn't that alcoholics drink to be drunk. It
was the accpetance that *I* am an alcoholic who drinks to be drunk.

Someone pointed out that almost no one learns from someone else's
experience and damned few learn even from their own experience. Flying in
the face of the former principle, I was trying to share the fact that I had
overcome the latter principle by managing to learn something from my own
experience.

[rosie readandpost]

> Someone pointed out that almost no one learns from someone else's
> experience and damned few learn even from their own experience.


i've heard this expression before, and i don't believe it applies to everyone.
i learn ALOT from those who are willing to share THEIR experience.
i ALWAYS listen intently to those who relapse and then luckily return to the AA meetings i attend.
i want to know what they did, or didn't do, and what happened.
i believe that helps me to escape that experience, for one more day!

rosie

[Michael Rapp]

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:11:22 GMT, "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net>
wrote:
>the honesty of my own answer, which was that no, I didn't crave one of those
>beers - what I wanted was to be drunk.
> I didn't just want a beer or even a drink. For that matter, I didn't
>even just want a bunch of beers or drinks. I would have liked the drinking,
>but what I really wanted was the sensation, the feeling, the experience of
>being lit, hammered, skunked, tight, drunk.
<snip>
I really can relate to that feeling/senation. It took me quite some
time to realize that I was what translates to an "effect drinker", I
was only after the effect of being drunk, the endorphine kick. If they
sold drunkedness in pink pills I would gladly have bought these
instead of bothering with huge amounts of fluids (and would have
spared me an upset stomach, much to my disadvantage).

[Michael Rapp]

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:56:23 -0500, "rosie readandpost"
<readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>> Someone pointed out that almost no one learns from someone else's
>> experience and damned few learn even from their own experience.
-----------------
>i've heard this expression before, and i don't believe it applies to everyone.
>i learn ALOT from those who are willing to share THEIR experience.
>i ALWAYS listen intently to those who relapse and then luckily return to the AA meetings i attend.
>i want to know what they did, or didn't do, and what happened.
>i believe that helps me to escape that experience, for one more day!
>rosie
-------------------
Rosie, in my opinion the trouble lies not in learning what you WANT to
learn, but getting the stuff into your mind you DON't want to learn.
In the beginning of my rahab i had no truck with the idea of beig
"sick", "in my mind", "for the rest of my life" et al. What I WANTED
to hear was som white- coated doctor givin me a prescription, telling
me do- this, do- that, and in a year or so everything was gonnabe jus'
fine...
So in mho our minds tend to ignore sensible facts (or go by "I know
better/ what's best) and carry on doing unsensible things. In an
analogy, no driver I know gave up speeding just he got some tickets to
go with. Only when he runs short of cash or gets into serious trouble,
he starts to reconsider and (maybe, sometimes) reevaluate his actions.

[Dan McGown]

> If they sold drunkedness in pink pills I would gladly
> have bought these instead of bothering with huge
> amounts of fluids (and would have spared me an
> upset stomach, much to my disadvantage).

You know it's funny, because I feel that way too, but a bunch of the people
that I talk to *after* meetings (they don't usually say this during a
meeting) think that pills are a different problem entirely. It's true that
I personlly have never (yet, anyway) tried to substitute pills, but it's
also true that if I thought that the effect was the same I'd sure as hell be
tempted. I'd resist the same way for the same reasons, but I'd sure be
tempted the same way.

[rosie readandpost]

> Rosie, in my opinion the trouble lies not in learning what you WANT to
> learn, but getting the stuff into your mind you DON't want to learn.

i TOTALLY agree with this, and with the help of a sponsor, i did take a look at the things that i DID NOT want to, or
was afraid to, learn about myself
the 12 steps of AA, really did open up a whole new world for me!



> What I WANTED
> to hear was som white- coated doctor givin me a prescription, telling
> me do- this, do- that, and in a year or so everything was gonnabe jus'
> fine...

i believe that the hypochondria that i suffered in my early drinking years, was just an excuse to have those "white
coats" take care of me, pat me on the head, and tell me everything was ok!



> So in mho our minds tend to ignore sensible facts (or go by "I know
> better/ what's best) and carry on doing unsensible things.

i don't know about everyone, but imho, alcoholics tend to keep doing the same stupid things, and expecting different
results, each and every time.
over time, i was able to "surrender" and actually SEE my behavior for what it was! with help i stopped drinking.


rosie

[rosie readandpost]

"Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:XAiPa.11213$Hw.8512936@news2.news.adelphia.ne t...
> > If they sold drunkedness in pink pills I would gladly
> > have bought these instead of bothering with huge
> > amounts of fluids (and would have spared me an
> > upset stomach, much to my disadvantage).
>
> You know it's funny, because I feel that way too, but a bunch of the people
> that I talk to *after* meetings (they don't usually say this during a
> meeting) think that pills are a different problem entirely.


there are ALL TYPES of folks in AA meetings, and with them come MANY OPINIONS...........................some don't like
the mention in meetings, of anything other than alcohol, others see that as unrealistic.
you will find that AA meetings, if you look , that meet your needs.

i stay away from meetings, where folks believe that it is their DUTY to take other's inventories, and insist that there
is only ONE WAY to get and stay sober.
rosie

[Moonraker]

"Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:tviPa.11212$Hw.8511565@news2.news.adelphia.ne t...
> I have been avoiding both the temptation to drink,
> on the one hand, and the "wet blanket" effect from my not drinking, on the
> other hand. How did you cope with that, if you don't mind my asking.
>
>
Dan...you won't get "struck drunk" . :>)

Just a thought....maybe your friends would like you "better" if they saw you
sober? When I was drinking, I thought "everybody" got drunk at parties.
When I got sober, I found out that most everybody stayed sober, and only a
few of us were sloppy-ass drunks at the events. Staying sober isn't a
morality judgement....I used to think I was a bad guy trying to dry out. It
helped to be told that I was just sick, trying to get well.

Coping? The first few times will be tough, no doubt. But the words "No,
thanks" go a long way. Good luck.

[aNdy]

As in an Ozzy Osborne song.............
One is too many
ten not enough

Andy

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:xwePa.198122$jT4.3770822@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> thanks for sharing your "discovery" dan!
> i remember being amazed with the discovery, that i NEVER really wanted ONE
drink............................in fact, if
> all i could have was ONE drink, i usually passed!
> one was NEVER enough!
>
> --
> read and post daily, it works!
> rosie
>
> ever wonder if we would care more about each other if we realized how much
we have in common?
> .............................R. Nagy
>
>
>
>
> "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:euePa.11187$Hw.8457987@news2.news.adelphia.ne t...
> > Monday night, I took my 14 year old son (yeah, I have grandsons 9
and
> > 11, but I'm finally out of production now <g>) to the Norah Jones
concert at
> > the Nautica pavilion in Cleveland. I'm lucky that my son has been very
> > pleased that I have got dry and is really supportive.
> >
> > While we were waiting for it all to start, I was watching the
people
> > walking through the aisles and I had an additional moment of clarity. I
> > asked myself if I really craved one of those beers and I was surprised
at
> > the honesty of my own answer, which was that no, I didn't crave one of
those
> > beers - what I wanted was to be drunk.
> >
> > I didn't just want a beer or even a drink. For that matter, I
didn't
> > even just want a bunch of beers or drinks. I would have liked the
drinking,
> > but what I really wanted was the sensation, the feeling, the experience
of
> > being lit, hammered, skunked, tight, drunk.
> >
> > It was an important self insight for me because it answers that
age-old
> > question that is really just the demon trying to regain control: "If I
stay
> > dry long enough, can I go back to being a normal drinker?"
> >
> > Friends, I can't presume to answer that question for all people,
but
> > for me the answer is clearly that being a normal drinker isn't really
even
> > on my list of desires. I'm not tempted to drink. I'm tempted to be
drunk.
> > That isn't now and is never going to be a normal drinker.
> >
> > Realizing that, I laughed out loud. The demon inside me is a liar
and
> > I caught him in his lie. Most people over 50 know that old Pogo Possum
> > line: "We have met the enemy and he is us." As an alcoholic, I have to
keep
> > reminding myself that the enemy resides in me, uses my brain and my
thoughts
> > and my mouth. Since that is the case, I can't fight him by myself. I
need
> > outside help to be able to catch him when he uses myself against me.
> > Whether I call that outside help, that Higher Power, by the name of God
or
> > the group or the traditions is irrelevant. It isn't the name; it's the
> > substance.
> >
> > God, thank you for tipping my hand. Thank you for reminding me
that I
> > try to deceive myself.
> >
> >
>
>

[Dan McGown]

> Just a thought....maybe your friends would like you
> "better" if they saw you sober? When I was drinking,
> I thought "everybody" got drunk at parties. When
> I got sober, I found out that most everybody stayed
> sober, and only a few of us were sloppy-ass drunks
> at the events.

Funny you should drag me back to that. When I was first not drinking, a
counselor type asked me to describe myself when I was drinking. I said:
"I'm witty and likeable." He said: "You're sober now and you seem to be
witty and likeable." Now the point isn't whether I'm in fact witty or
likeable. The point is that drunk or sober, I'm still me; but I'm me with
less capacity for wit and likeability when I'm drunk. Frankly, it's a
horrifying thought that I can't even escape being me by drinking, only make
it worse.

[Dan McGown]

> The 9th step promises will give you hope for that
> "horrifying thought".....(pg. 84 of the BB of AA)

"I am only an egg." - Michael Valentine Smith

[Moonraker]

"Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:71jPa.11219$Hw.8520093@news2.news.adelphia.ne t...
> > Just a thought....maybe your friends would like you
> > "better" if they saw you sober? When I was drinking,
> > I thought "everybody" got drunk at parties. When
> > I got sober, I found out that most everybody stayed
> > sober, and only a few of us were sloppy-ass drunks
> > at the events.
>
> Funny you should drag me back to that. When I was first not drinking, a
> counselor type asked me to describe myself when I was drinking. I said:
> "I'm witty and likeable." He said: "You're sober now and you seem to be
> witty and likeable." Now the point isn't whether I'm in fact witty or
> likeable. The point is that drunk or sober, I'm still me; but I'm me with
> less capacity for wit and likeability when I'm drunk. Frankly, it's a
> horrifying thought that I can't even escape being me by drinking, only
make
> it worse.
>
>

The 9th step promises will give you hope for that "horrifying
thought".....(pg. 84 of the BB of AA)

".....our whole attitude and outlook on life will change. fear of people
and of economic insecurity will leave us. we will intuitively know how to
handle situations which used to baffle us."....

But, you gotta do the first 9 steps to get there....

"Wherever I go, there I am."

[xian]

This one time, on Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:45:45 GMT, "Dan McGown"
<DMcGown@adelphia.net> said:

>> That totally rings true. It's not the taste, or the flavors of beer
>> or wine that attract me - it's the feeling that comes from the alcohol
>> in my brain. Unfortunately as a result I can't enjoy the tastes
>> anymore, but it's a small price to pay for being sober.
>
>I'm only a beginner at being sober. On the one hand, I'm 57 years old. On
>the other hand, I've only been sober since May 24. Does the daily decision
>(oh hell, the moment to moment decision) not to drink get any easier? I've
>been separated for well over a year. I used to dine out with my friends on
>a regular basis as a major part of my attempt to develop a social life. For
>a month and a half, I have avoided doing so because of the fact that they
>will surely be drinking. I have been avoiding both the temptation to drink,
>on the one hand, and the "wet blanket" effect from my not drinking, on the
>other hand. How did you cope with that, if you don't mind my asking.

Bear in mind that I'm not yet five months sober. I found that once I
was in the habit of not drinking, it became easier to resist. I'm
very habitual by nature, and that helps me to not drink when I'm out.
Thank god pretty much all restaurants have NA beer, or I'd have a
harder time. My friends are ok with me not drinking for the most
part. They're still in a bit of disbelief based on my past.

I did actually avoid social gatherings for a while because I didn't
want the peer pressure to get to me as it did the last time I quit
(for 19 days, and a visit to my brother killed that). Now, though, I
kind of see not drinking as part of who I am, and I try to keep that
in mind.

I've gotten some practice from quitting smoking and becoming a
vegetarian - what else is left for me?! ;-)

Hope this helps. Stick with it.

--
xian
www.simpleworldmusic.com
simpleworld - we're not a religion, we're a rock band

[rosie readandpost]

"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:zkjPa.48410$Sn5.19700@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com ...
>
> "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:lfjPa.11221$Hw.8522907@news2.news.adelphia.ne t...
> > > The 9th step promises will give you hope for that
> > > "horrifying thought".....(pg. 84 of the BB of AA)
> >
> > "I am only an egg." - Michael Valentine Smith
> >
> >
>
> OK...we'll be gentle with you then.
>
>
>


(((((((((((((((((((moon))))))))))))))))))))))))))
;)

[Moonraker]

Aw....gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag! ;>)
"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:I0kPa.97911$fe.2028453@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
> "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:zkjPa.48410$Sn5.19700@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com ...
> >
> > "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> > news:lfjPa.11221$Hw.8522907@news2.news.adelphia.ne t...
> > > > The 9th step promises will give you hope for that
> > > > "horrifying thought".....(pg. 84 of the BB of AA)
> > >
> > > "I am only an egg." - Michael Valentine Smith
> > >
> > >
> >
> > OK...we'll be gentle with you then.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> (((((((((((((((((((moon))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> ;)
>
>

[Michael Rapp]

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:51:35 GMT, "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net>
wrote:

>> If they sold drunkedness in pink pills I would gladly
>> have bought these instead of bothering with huge
>> amounts of fluids (and would have spared me an
>> upset stomach, much to my disadvantage).
>
>You know it's funny, because I feel that way too, but a bunch of the people
>that I talk to *after* meetings (they don't usually say this during a
>meeting) think that pills are a different problem entirely. It's true that
>I personlly have never (yet, anyway) tried to substitute pills, but it's
>also true that if I thought that the effect was the same I'd sure as hell be
>tempted. I'd resist the same way for the same reasons, but I'd sure be
>tempted the same way.
>-----------------------
Dan, I was refering to pills not as a aubstitute drug, but "if- they-
sold- alcohol- in- pills". It was the effect of being drunk I was
after. I complained about the "nuisance" of having to gag down that
awful lot of liquid stuff, which didn't really taste good in the end.

[Michael Rapp]

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:45:45 GMT, "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net>
wrote:
>I'm only a beginner at being sober. On the one hand, I'm 57 years old. On
>the other hand, I've only been sober since May 24. Does the daily decision
>(oh hell, the moment to moment decision) not to drink get any easier? I've
>been separated for well over a year. I used to dine out with my friends on
>a regular basis as a major part of my attempt to develop a social life. For
>a month and a half, I have avoided doing so because of the fact that they
>will surely be drinking. I have been avoiding both the temptation to drink,
>on the one hand, and the "wet blanket" effect from my not drinking, on the
>other hand. How did you cope with that, if you don't mind my asking.
----------------------
Ok, my experience: in the beginning, it was really kind of weird. You
know, I live in the Center of Heidelberg, Germany, where you couldn't
throw a rock in any direction without breaking the window of a bar or
a restaurant. So I had to try to cope or move away. I decided to stay,
I am sick, not a fugitive.
The first thing I had to confront myself with was: "What will X say,
what will Y say, when I order a glas of orange juice. I played it
through my mind, whole scripts they could use over in Hollywood. But I
found, after a little while, that all I did was playing a defense on
my behalf. Why? Why do I have to defend myself for what I am ordering
in a restaurant? Can you imagine how silly it would be to argue with
the waiter whether I should have beef or pork? Hillareous. So why
should it be different about what I drink. So I went and had a good
talk with my bad concience, because that little bastard was it who was
nagging me, and NOT the people I was with. My bad concience made me
really absolutely hyper- sensitive when the subject of booze came up.
My basic descision was (and is) clear: ending this day as sober as I
began it. Implementing can be a lot trickier. My basic answer is, if
asked why I refuse alcohol, "because I do not WANT to". It is even
true.
So, after a few shakey experiences in restaurants and bars, it comes
more and more natural. For me, it was only a couple of weeks, I really
don't know how long it will take for your. My advice is: go out and
practice, as often as you can, but please do yourself the favour of
only entering the place when you feel up to it. If not, do not enter
the (possible) scene of "action". Leave, say you're not feeling well
(this is more true than they think) but do not expose yourself
needlesly to the danger. I still do so: I only leave my appartment
when I'm feeling well, when I just had a fight with someone I stay put
until I feel better (after a lot of phoning, usually).
Jeez, sorry about the lenght of the posting - sorry.

[Michael Rapp]

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:36:49 GMT, "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net>
wrote:

>> The 9th step promises will give you hope for that
>> "horrifying thought".....(pg. 84 of the BB of AA)
>
>"I am only an egg." - Michael Valentine Smith
>
>
I see, you like "stranger in a strange land, too. :-)

[Dan McGown]

Why apologize for the length of a post that has a lot of really good stuff
in it? :)

>I live in the Center of Heidelberg, Germany, where you couldn't
> throw a rock in any direction without breaking the window of a bar or
> a restaurant.

Roger that. I am a baseball fan. It's hard to picture being at a game and
not having a brew. Tonight I am going to a game for the first time since I
quit drinking. I'm glad i got your post because I am going to use one of
your good bits. I'll stay as long as I'm comfortable with it, but I'll run
like a bunny if I start to get tempted.

> I am sick, not a fugitive.
> The first thing I had to confront myself with was: "What will X say,
> what will Y say, when I order a glas of orange juice. I played it
> through my mind, whole scripts they could use over in Hollywood. But I
> found, after a little while, that all I did was playing a defense on
> my behalf. Why? Why do I have to defend myself for what I am ordering
> in a restaurant?

Right on the money! I don't apologize for ordering fish instead of beef.
Why should I apologize for ordering an iced tea instead of a "Long Island
Iced Tea?"

[rosie readandpost]

ROTFLMAO!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

ever wonder if we would care more about each other if we realized how much we have in common?
..............................R. Nagy




"Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:j7kPa.49101$Sn5.4047@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com. ..
> Aw....gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag! ;>)
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:I0kPa.97911$fe.2028453@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> >
> > "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:zkjPa.48410$Sn5.19700@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com ...
> > >
> > > "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> > > news:lfjPa.11221$Hw.8522907@news2.news.adelphia.ne t...
> > > > > The 9th step promises will give you hope for that
> > > > > "horrifying thought".....(pg. 84 of the BB of AA)
> > > >
> > > > "I am only an egg." - Michael Valentine Smith
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > OK...we'll be gentle with you then.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > (((((((((((((((((((moon))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> > ;)
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Shawster]

"Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:tviPa.11212$Hw.8511565@news2.news.adelphia.ne t...
> > That totally rings true. It's not the taste, or the flavors of beer
> > or wine that attract me - it's the feeling that comes from the alcohol
> > in my brain. Unfortunately as a result I can't enjoy the tastes
> > anymore, but it's a small price to pay for being sober.
>
> I'm only a beginner at being sober. On the one hand, I'm 57 years old.
On
> the other hand, I've only been sober since May 24. Does the daily
decision
> (oh hell, the moment to moment decision) not to drink get any easier?
I've
> been separated for well over a year. I used to dine out with my friends
on
> a regular basis as a major part of my attempt to develop a social life.
For
> a month and a half, I have avoided doing so because of the fact that they
> will surely be drinking. I have been avoiding both the temptation to
drink,
> on the one hand, and the "wet blanket" effect from my not drinking, on the
> other hand. How did you cope with that, if you don't mind my asking.

I wish I had a good answer to that question, but it is something that you
will just have to work out for yourself.

I don't have any old friends left. I got rid of most of them towards the
end of my drinking career. I got rid of almost all the rest avoiding
drinking buddies, when I got sober. the one or two left faded away as we no
longer had the same dynamic and we moved on. The most disappointing of
these would be Doug. he was there for me when I went to jail, gave me a
place to stay, and help me out a lot. when I got back on my feet, our
friendship faded. we were friends for five years prior to this.

When I was drinking, I didn't want to be around sober people. why would
other drunks want to be around me now?

I made amends where I could. I see old friends in the street and say hi.
But calls are never returned, so I just let it go.

But there is good news. I am making new friends. And these friends are
more special to me than most of my old friends, and certainly more special
than all those drinking buddies.

All you have to do is stay sober. Give it time. you will be a wet blanket,
but only to the active drinkers. I think you will find that there are more
people that don't drink than you realize. every concert I go to I expect to
be the only one to be not drinking, and I am pleasantly surprised. The last
show I went to, Rollin's Band (old punk) there were few drinkers at all. I
got big black X's on my hands to show the bartenders I wasn't drinking, they
are for minors, but I am 32. was I embarrassed? no. In fact it made me more
old school punk (straight edge) ;o)

we are our own worst problem. I have yet to have anyone force a drink on me.
Most people don't drink inappropriately. so don't sweat it. And it will get
better the more days you string together sober.

do your friends drink a lot? do they get drunk? or do they just have a
couple? for me, I could care less what they drink, but if they get drunk
they get boring to me. I used to be the guy people kept around to make
themselves feel better about their drinking ;o) "I must be OK, I don't
drink as much as Shaw" the hard part is though that people that drank with
me would have to look at themselves when they find out I am in recovery, and
that is hard to do.

PAX

Rev shawster

[Bingo]

"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
news:i%ePa.61830$bK5.1508976@twister.tampabay.rr.c om:

> yeah, but how was the concert?? ;o)
>
> Norah Jones is awesome. I Dl'd all her music at the suggestion
> of a friend, I had no idea that she was 22. she sounds like she
> has years behind her voice.
>
>
> "Dan McGown" <DMcGown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:euePa.11187$Hw.8457987@news2.news.adelphia.ne t...
>> Monday night, I took my 14 year old son (yeah, I have
>> grandsons 9 and
>> 11, but I'm finally out of production now <g>) to the Norah
>> Jones concert
> at
>> the Nautica pavilion in Cleveland. I'm lucky that my son has
>> been very pleased that I have got dry and is really supportive.
>>
>> While we were waiting for it all to start, I was watching
>> the people
>> walking through the aisles and I had an additional moment of
>> clarity. I asked myself if I really craved one of those beers
>> and I was surprised at the honesty of my own answer, which was
>> that no, I didn't crave one of
> those
>> beers - what I wanted was to be drunk.
>>
>> I didn't just want a beer or even a drink. For that
>> matter, I didn't
>> even just want a bunch of beers or drinks. I would have liked
>> the
> drinking,
>> but what I really wanted was the sensation, the feeling, the
>> experience of being lit, hammered, skunked, tight, drunk.
>>
>> It was an important self insight for me because it answers
>> that
> age-old
>> question that is really just the demon trying to regain
>> control: "If I
> stay
>> dry long enough, can I go back to being a normal drinker?"
>>
>> Friends, I can't presume to answer that question for all
>> people, but
>> for me the answer is clearly that being a normal drinker isn't
>> really even on my list of desires. I'm not tempted to drink.
>> I'm tempted to be
> drunk.
>> That isn't now and is never going to be a normal drinker.
>>
>> Realizing that, I laughed out loud. The demon inside me
>> is a liar
> and
>> I caught him in his lie. Most people over 50 know that old
>> Pogo Possum line: "We have met the enemy and he is us." As an
>> alcoholic, I have to
> keep
>> reminding myself that the enemy resides in me, uses my brain
>> and my
> thoughts
>> and my mouth. Since that is the case, I can't fight him by
>> myself. I
> need
>> outside help to be able to catch him when he uses myself
>> against me. Whether I call that outside help, that Higher
>> Power, by the name of God or the group or the traditions is
>> irrelevant. It isn't the name; it's the substance.
>>
>> God, thank you for tipping my hand. Thank you for
>> reminding me that
> I
>> try to deceive myself.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

She does, actually. She's Ravi Shankar's daughter!

[rosie readandpost]

;)



"Shawster" <shawster@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message news:RaoPa.4458$k85.350943@twister.tampabay.rr.com ...
> how does the phrase go? when you argue with an idiot, a passerby can't tell
> who is whom.
>
> I'll leave it up to you two ;o)
>
>
> "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:5XlPa.98676$fe.2035980@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > ROTFLMAO!
> >
> > --
> > read and post daily, it works!
> > rosie
> >
> > ever wonder if we would care more about each other if we realized how much
> we have in common?
> > .............................R. Nagy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Moonraker" <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:j7kPa.49101$Sn5.4047@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com. ..
> > > Aw....gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag! ;>)
> > > "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:I0kPa.97911$fe.2028453@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > >

[rosie readandpost]

> True. Sometimes the pain has be bad enough often enough to change
> the behavior. I took me nine months of meetings to be open to even
> the slightest possibility that maybe I'm an alcoholic.

by the time, i entered the doors of AA, i KNEW i was an alcoholic.......................no doubt about it.
i had tried EVERYTHING is could to stop/control my drinking, for naught.
there was no doubt in my mind that i was an alcoholic, and that meetings were the only thing left for me to do, if i
wanted to live.
YMMV