Looking for opinions

[Adrian]

I am just looking for peoples personal point of view. I know what I should
be doing but don't want to do it. I know that I should stop the booze again.

A little history

I have been drinking since I was 16, when I was 26 I met someone how had
cleaned up and they gave me the choice of them or booze. I had tried many
times before that to give up but could not. I decided that love was more
important that alcohol and gave up. I was clean for 4 years. We split up
after 3, but since I was jobless I knew that I could not drink since it
would take everything I had.

So, to cut it a bit short, I got a jolt in 2003 and met a girl who was most
certainly and alcoholic that I wanted to save. Yeah I know, shouldn't have
done it, but I did. In the end I started drinking because it became a
problem between us, she is now gone, because of her alcoholic behaviour and
me not tolerating it even though I am drinking.

Well if you got this far you pretty dedicated :-), thanks for reading all
this crap.

So to my real question, even though I was sober for 4 years I am not sure
that I am an alcoholic, in truth I know I am but the little voice is trying
to convince me that I am a problem drinker. What I really what to know is
that every time I have stopped drinking is for an external reason, i.e. my
girlfriend, no job. Or whatever. The thing that I realise is that drinking
is killing me, but I don't have the self respect to give up on my own, I
need someone else to want me to stop, to stop. Does this make sense, is
there a way round this.

Since I started drinking again, I have found so many reasons to drink, they
are all the usual ones of "I like myself better when I drink", and "I can be
who I want to be".

I am not sure if I want to stop, but I know I need too. I know that I am in
a self destructive slow suicide faze after a bad relationship, but I suppose
I am looking to you guys for a golden carrot for the way out.

(Damn I wish I was a normal drinker!!!!!)


Adrian

[J. Rockford]

In article <c6e1es$kne$1@sparta.btinternet.com>, Adrian
<nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote:

Hello. If you're not ready to quit drinking.... Party on till it gets
bad enough to where you are ready to quit, if it doesn't kill you
first. Just my opinion-Mike

[JB]

"Adrian" <nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote in message
news:c6e1es$kne$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> So to my real question, even though I was sober for 4 years I am not
sure
> that I am an alcoholic, in truth I know I am but the little voice is
trying
> to convince me that I am a problem drinker. What I really what to
know is
> that every time I have stopped drinking is for an external reason,
i.e. my
> girlfriend, no job. Or whatever. The thing that I realise is that
drinking
> is killing me, but I don't have the self respect to give up on my
own, I
> need someone else to want me to stop, to stop.

<snip>

Why ? So that if you either continue to drink or stop then start
again, you can lay the blame for it on anyone or anything other than
yourself ? I say this because I'm not ashamed to admit that for years
I always believed that people I knew, situations I was in and the
world in general were largely responsible for causing me to drink I
refused to accept that the only person responsible for making me drink
was me.

Adrian, the only person who is responsible for making you drink is
you. I don't apologise for saying this since I've told you only the
truth

All the best

JB
(an alcoholic who's not had a drink for 10 and a half months)

[Bpyboy]

you know, I tried and tried to quite, because my guts just couldn't handle it.
So i'd quit for a couple day, the vomitting would stop, and then I'd hit it
harder than ever.


Am I an alcoholic? seems to me it doesn't really matter! When I start
drinking, I don't stop, not until I pass out, or my guts get so torn up that i
physically CANNOT drink.

So, that (and the fact that my fiance RODE MY ASS about my drinking--the money
pissed away, the vomiting, the pissing off the balcony.....) was my big thing
to quit, and STAY quit, and some AA buddies (I don't attend often, but they
help me out when i'm feeling tempted). and YEAH it was a bitch at first, and
honestly, YEAH I still sometimes get a strong urge to drink again, but that is
what SUPPORT is all about. That first couple weeks was minute to minute,
talking myself down, wanting ANYTHING to calm me down, insomnia.....


But (as you said, you WERE dry for a couple years), it does get better,
overall. My depression is still there, but I'm physically feeling better, and
have been putting my beer money into an old Heiniken pony keg, and took my
fiance on a very nice vacation with the hundreds of bucks I didn't (literally!)
piss away.

Good luck,
John

[Melia Tomas]

My personal point of view of the golden carrot you're looking for...

"God"

"Remeber that we deal with alcohol---cunning, baffling, powerful! Without
helpit is too much for us. But there is One who has all power---that One is
God. May you find Him now!"
Alcoholic Anonymous BB pgs.58-59

But in order for the "golden carrot" to work...
"you must start with a *real* desire," (not some half ass of a desire) but a
*real* one "to never take another drink and to be *willing* to go to *any
lengths* to achieve this goal."
Alcoholic Anonymous BB pg. 58

My personal point of view...at the moment, your just taking life for
granted, and when we humans seem pursue such a life style, it's really hard
trying to set *ANY* "Goals" for ourselves. *Good* goals, that is!

Melia





"Adrian" <nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote in message
news:c6e1es$kne$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> I am just looking for peoples personal point of view. I know what I should
> be doing but don't want to do it. I know that I should stop the booze
again.
>
> A little history
>
> I have been drinking since I was 16, when I was 26 I met someone how had
> cleaned up and they gave me the choice of them or booze. I had tried many
> times before that to give up but could not. I decided that love was more
> important that alcohol and gave up. I was clean for 4 years. We split up
> after 3, but since I was jobless I knew that I could not drink since it
> would take everything I had.
>
> So, to cut it a bit short, I got a jolt in 2003 and met a girl who was
most
> certainly and alcoholic that I wanted to save. Yeah I know, shouldn't have
> done it, but I did. In the end I started drinking because it became a
> problem between us, she is now gone, because of her alcoholic behaviour
and
> me not tolerating it even though I am drinking.
>
> Well if you got this far you pretty dedicated :-), thanks for reading all
> this crap.
>
> So to my real question, even though I was sober for 4 years I am not sure
> that I am an alcoholic, in truth I know I am but the little voice is
trying
> to convince me that I am a problem drinker. What I really what to know is
> that every time I have stopped drinking is for an external reason, i.e. my
> girlfriend, no job. Or whatever. The thing that I realise is that drinking
> is killing me, but I don't have the self respect to give up on my own, I
> need someone else to want me to stop, to stop. Does this make sense, is
> there a way round this.
>
> Since I started drinking again, I have found so many reasons to drink,
they
> are all the usual ones of "I like myself better when I drink", and "I can
be
> who I want to be".
>
> I am not sure if I want to stop, but I know I need too. I know that I am
in
> a self destructive slow suicide faze after a bad relationship, but I
suppose
> I am looking to you guys for a golden carrot for the way out.
>
> (Damn I wish I was a normal drinker!!!!!)
>
>
> Adrian
>
>

[John Droge]

"Adrian" <nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote in message
news:c6e1es$kne$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> I am just looking for peoples personal point of view. I know what I should
> be doing but don't want to do it. I know that I should stop the booze
again.
>
> A little history
>
> I have been drinking since I was 16, when I was 26 I met someone how had
> cleaned up and they gave me the choice of them or booze. I had tried many
> times before that to give up but could not. I decided that love was more
> important that alcohol and gave up. I was clean for 4 years. We split up
> after 3, but since I was jobless I knew that I could not drink since it
> would take everything I had.
>
> So, to cut it a bit short, I got a jolt in 2003 and met a girl who was
most
> certainly and alcoholic that I wanted to save. Yeah I know, shouldn't have
> done it, but I did. In the end I started drinking because it became a
> problem between us, she is now gone, because of her alcoholic behaviour
and
> me not tolerating it even though I am drinking.
>
> Well if you got this far you pretty dedicated :-), thanks for reading all
> this crap.
>
> So to my real question, even though I was sober for 4 years I am not sure
> that I am an alcoholic, in truth I know I am but the little voice is
trying
> to convince me that I am a problem drinker. What I really what to know is
> that every time I have stopped drinking is for an external reason, i.e. my
> girlfriend, no job. Or whatever. The thing that I realise is that drinking
> is killing me, but I don't have the self respect to give up on my own, I
> need someone else to want me to stop, to stop. Does this make sense, is
> there a way round this.
>
> Since I started drinking again, I have found so many reasons to drink,
they
> are all the usual ones of "I like myself better when I drink", and "I can
be
> who I want to be".
>
> I am not sure if I want to stop, but I know I need too. I know that I am
in
> a self destructive slow suicide faze after a bad relationship, but I
suppose
> I am looking to you guys for a golden carrot for the way out.
>
> (Damn I wish I was a normal drinker!!!!!)
>
>
> Adrian
>
I'd say you've already made your own case as to who and what you are and
what you need to do and even how to do it.
We ALL wish we were normal drinkers--but we're not.
Golden carrot? Do you want live and enjoy Life?, actually be happy about
your life?
AA is all about Life and making Life better one life at a time. AA doesn't
shoot the wounded but you have to be alive to come back in.
John

[Robert McGregor]

"Adrian" <nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote in message
news:c6e1es$kne$1@sparta.btinternet.com...

> I am looking to you guys for a golden carrot for the way out.
>
> (Damn I wish I was a normal drinker!!!!!)
>

Not to worry, only a few abnormal drinkers are real alcoholics, and if
you are a real alcoholic, your very own golden carrot is patiently
waiting for you already, at rock bottom.

It may pay you to be on the lookout though, others concur with my
experience that feelings are pretty much anaesthetised in the rock
bottom atmosphere, and your arse may be well and truly rammed down on
that carrot before you even know it's there.

Bob

[rosie]

adrian,
it seems that you are looking for ANY excuse to keep on
drinking........................and that makes perfect sense to me,
and it is also something i sought for A LONG time.
i quit drinking because i HAD to..............................
i did not want to!

there will be those who tell you you "GOTTA WANNA", but i don't
believe that......................

find all the reasons in the world that you ought to quit drinking,
"put the plug in the jug" and join us......................

..................We shall be with you in the Fellowship of the
Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road
of Happy Destiny.

May God bless you and keep you - until then.

(pg. 164, BIG BOOK)

rosie


"Adrian" <nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote in message
news:c6e1es$kne$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
: I am just looking for peoples personal point of view. I know what
I should
: be doing but don't want to do it. I know that I should stop the
booze again.
:
: A little history
:
: I have been drinking since I was 16, when I was 26 I met someone
how had
: cleaned up and they gave me the choice of them or booze. I had
tried many
: times before that to give up but could not. I decided that love
was more
: important that alcohol and gave up. I was clean for 4 years. We
split up
: after 3, but since I was jobless I knew that I could not drink
since it
: would take everything I had.
:
: So, to cut it a bit short, I got a jolt in 2003 and met a girl who
was most
: certainly and alcoholic that I wanted to save. Yeah I know,
shouldn't have
: done it, but I did. In the end I started drinking because it
became a
: problem between us, she is now gone, because of her alcoholic
behaviour and
: me not tolerating it even though I am drinking.
:
: Well if you got this far you pretty dedicated :-), thanks for
reading all
: this crap.
:
: So to my real question, even though I was sober for 4 years I am
not sure
: that I am an alcoholic, in truth I know I am but the little voice
is trying
: to convince me that I am a problem drinker. What I really what to
know is
: that every time I have stopped drinking is for an external reason,
i.e. my
: girlfriend, no job. Or whatever. The thing that I realise is that
drinking
: is killing me, but I don't have the self respect to give up on my
own, I
: need someone else to want me to stop, to stop. Does this make
sense, is
: there a way round this.
:
: Since I started drinking again, I have found so many reasons to
drink, they
: are all the usual ones of "I like myself better when I drink", and
"I can be
: who I want to be".
:
: I am not sure if I want to stop, but I know I need too. I know
that I am in
: a self destructive slow suicide faze after a bad relationship, but
I suppose
: I am looking to you guys for a golden carrot for the way out.
:
: (Damn I wish I was a normal drinker!!!!!)
:
:
: Adrian
:
:

[Robert McGregor]

"rosie" <sorry@toomanyweirdo's.com> wrote in message
news:kNBic.16087$d7.3281@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> .................We shall be with you in the Fellowship of the
> Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road
> of Happy Destiny.

From: "rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <l%Rl5.19132$E05.337271@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech. net>

>actually, i would have to say that i have had GOOD long term
experience with
>the treatment of my depression over the past 13yrs.
>i have however had to take several different meds as each once
finally
>"wears out" and i need to change.

[Julie]

"Adrian" <nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote in message
news:c6e1es$kne$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> I am just looking for peoples personal point of view. I know what I should
> be doing but don't want to do it. I know that I should stop the booze
again.
>
> A little history
>
> I have been drinking since I was 16, when I was 26 I met someone how had
> cleaned up and they gave me the choice of them or booze. I had tried many
> times before that to give up but could not. I decided that love was more
> important that alcohol and gave up. I was clean for 4 years. We split up
> after 3, but since I was jobless I knew that I could not drink since it
> would take everything I had.
>
> So, to cut it a bit short, I got a jolt in 2003 and met a girl who was
most
> certainly and alcoholic that I wanted to save. Yeah I know, shouldn't have
> done it, but I did. In the end I started drinking because it became a
> problem between us, she is now gone, because of her alcoholic behaviour
and
> me not tolerating it even though I am drinking.
>
> Well if you got this far you pretty dedicated :-), thanks for reading all
> this crap.
>
> So to my real question, even though I was sober for 4 years I am not sure
> that I am an alcoholic, in truth I know I am but the little voice is
trying
> to convince me that I am a problem drinker. What I really what to know is
> that every time I have stopped drinking is for an external reason, i.e. my
> girlfriend, no job. Or whatever. The thing that I realise is that drinking
> is killing me, but I don't have the self respect to give up on my own, I
> need someone else to want me to stop, to stop. Does this make sense, is
> there a way round this.
>
> Since I started drinking again, I have found so many reasons to drink,
they
> are all the usual ones of "I like myself better when I drink", and "I can
be
> who I want to be".
>
> I am not sure if I want to stop, but I know I need too. I know that I am
in
> a self destructive slow suicide faze after a bad relationship, but I
suppose
> I am looking to you guys for a golden carrot for the way out.
>
> (Damn I wish I was a normal drinker!!!!!)
> Adrian
>
>
The golden carrot, easier softer way, and/or the quick fix does not exist
and you know that already.
I suggest that you quit drinking this very minute, get you butt to AA in
less than 12 hours from reading this, tell them this story you have shared
here, and listen to what they have to say to you.
That's what someone on AA's hotline told me over a decade ago and I did just
that and it worked for me.
Julie

[Mias]

"Adrian" <nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote in message
news:c6e1es$kne$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
(Damn I wish I was a normal drinker!!!!!)
Dear Adrian - Can identify with your wish to be a normal drinker. I loved
the feeling that booze gave me. A friend described the feeling by saying it
'made her feel like the lights on the X-mass tree'. Towards the end of my
drinking career I wished just to be normal because life became totally
unbearable drinking. As a matter of fact I tried to commit suicide by
walking into the sea, one morning Five 'O Clock, but the water turned out to
be too cold. At that stage I was so filled with feelings of guilt because of
the stupid things I did drunk and the permanent vague feeling of fear that
booze instilled in me that I could not face another human being without
booze in my brain and personality. What sort of made it worse was when I
became aware that even very bad 'drunks' was looking down on me and
despising me for giving drinking a bad name. At that stage I was unable to
perceive that people actually die from such behavior and that there are all
sorts of accidents and diseases that visit the fatally drunk beings. I
wanted to be dead then, in any case, but did not have the guts to pull the
plug while there was still booze left and means to obtain it. One aspect of
those 'end-days' was the total loneliness. I could be in a pub talking to
people but slowly the knowledge grew inside that this was a plastic world
filled with plastic people talking plastic talk, the essence that did not
last until the next morning. When I reached the point where I could not
imagine a life without drink AND also not imagine a life with drink, I knew
it was checkmate. I ended up in a mental institution, because of my
attempted suicide and they said I must sit in the corner, they could not do
anything much for me, save withdrawal, because I was an alcoholic. Even the
state nuthouse did not WANT me! That was a bit of a low. I got out, looked
up into the cloudless blue that morning and promised God, to His face, that
I will never drink again. It took me about a month to find an excuse to
break that promise. I drank on for a month but did not even enjoy it any
more. In the end booze steals even the plastic pleasure away. Then I saw an
article about an AA convention in Port Elizabeth, in 1989, with the twenty
questions. I did it and got a full score. I laughed and reckoned that if
these people knew all the right questions they might know some of the right
answers as well. Went to the Tuesday night meeting of the Port Elizabeth
group on the 4'th of April 1989 and has not had a drink since. More
important, I have had a life since then, filled with joy and happiness and
live real people. I can recognize love and give love. Many things have
changed for me and I will say that even before I started drinking circa 18,
I was alcoholic in my attitude towards life and how I expressed myself.
Although there MUST be other ways to turn this disease around than AA. Pray
God that there are, I would recommend that an alcoholic goes to AA and give
it a 90 day 90 meetings, whatever, but give AA at least as good a chance as
was booze given, to work, with at least as much enthusiasm as ones drinking
career. (Or even 1% of both would have sufficed in my case) This I say for a
few reasons, just my own perceived reasons as I experienced the healing
process:
.. One can not go it alone. One needs that hope and warmth and witness to
life being possible without booze. It gave me some of the 'feeling of
belonging' that I was searching for in booze.
.. One needs to be able to see that booze effects all people about the same
and that what one does when drunk is not all permanent insanity. One needs
to learn to laugh at it, when in the past.
.. One needs a structured program. When I started I could only do simple
things in a repetitive way because life without booze was strange and
frightening to me. 'They' said I must pray when feeling like a drink. I
prayed all day!
.. One needs some sort of end goal or vision. Coming from a booze filled life
I could only intellectually understand that there was different families
with different values where the sun sort of shined on a permanent and
predictable basis. Someone who is not an alcoholic will not understand what
I am saying here...
One needs love.
I am crying as I am writing this and thinking of those dark days. I thank
God and AA that I could enter into the light and that my life did not end 15
years ago. I wish that I could 'plant' a solution into a still suffering
alcoholics mind that will tell them. "Try AA, try SOMETHING, only, in God's
name KNOW that there is a beautiful, normal as normal gets, life without
booze if only you will reach out and take it.
So Adrian, yeah, there is a way to have your wish "(Damn I wish I was a
normal drinker!!!!!) but then you will have to drink in LIFE. Believe me,
life is actually the 'normal drink' for us humans to partake of in large
quantities and NOT booze.
Thinking of you...
Kind regards
Mias - 15 years clean and sober and enjoying every second of it!
..

> I am just looking for peoples personal point of view. I know what I should
> be doing but don't want to do it. I know that I should stop the booze
again.
>
> A little history
>
> I have been drinking since I was 16, when I was 26 I met someone how had
> cleaned up and they gave me the choice of them or booze. I had tried many
> times before that to give up but could not. I decided that love was more
> important that alcohol and gave up. I was clean for 4 years. We split up
> after 3, but since I was jobless I knew that I could not drink since it
> would take everything I had.
>
> So, to cut it a bit short, I got a jolt in 2003 and met a girl who was
most
> certainly and alcoholic that I wanted to save. Yeah I know, shouldn't have
> done it, but I did. In the end I started drinking because it became a
> problem between us, she is now gone, because of her alcoholic behaviour
and
> me not tolerating it even though I am drinking.
>
> Well if you got this far you pretty dedicated :-), thanks for reading all
> this crap.
>
> So to my real question, even though I was sober for 4 years I am not sure
> that I am an alcoholic, in truth I know I am but the little voice is
trying
> to convince me that I am a problem drinker. What I really what to know is
> that every time I have stopped drinking is for an external reason, i.e. my
> girlfriend, no job. Or whatever. The thing that I realise is that drinking
> is killing me, but I don't have the self respect to give up on my own, I
> need someone else to want me to stop, to stop. Does this make sense, is
> there a way round this.
>
> Since I started drinking again, I have found so many reasons to drink,
they
> are all the usual ones of "I like myself better when I drink", and "I can
be
> who I want to be".
>
> I am not sure if I want to stop, but I know I need too. I know that I am
in
> a self destructive slow suicide faze after a bad relationship, but I
suppose
> I am looking to you guys for a golden carrot for the way out.
>
> (Damn I wish I was a normal drinker!!!!!)
>
>
> Adrian
>
>

[Adrian]

Thank you all for your views. A few peoples replies made me angry until I
realised that some of you managed to see that I was still not being honest
with myself. Thank you for showing me that I am still lying to myself and I
thought I was being so honest.

I will keep lurking here, you all seem like good people.

Can someone explain the golden carrot, I think I know what it means, but I
am not sure.

Thanks again


Adrian
(scared to be dry, scared not to be dry)

[rosie]

thanks for posting that mias.........................it was a great
read!

--
rosie
http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0422-04.htm




"Mias" <emiasdont@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
news:c6ff11$4k0$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
: "Adrian" <nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote in message
: news:c6e1es$kne$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
: (Damn I wish I was a normal drinker!!!!!)
: Dear Adrian - Can identify with your wish to be a normal drinker.
I loved
: the feeling that booze gave me. A friend described the feeling by
saying it
: 'made her feel like the lights on the X-mass tree'. Towards the
end of my
: drinking career I wished just to be normal because life became
totally
: unbearable drinking. As a matter of fact I tried to commit suicide
by
: walking into the sea, one morning Five 'O Clock, but the water
turned out to
: be too cold. At that stage I was so filled with feelings of guilt
because of
: the stupid things I did drunk and the permanent vague feeling of
fear that
: booze instilled in me that I could not face another human being
without
: booze in my brain and personality. What sort of made it worse was
when I
: became aware that even very bad 'drunks' was looking down on me
and
: despising me for giving drinking a bad name. At that stage I was
unable to
: perceive that people actually die from such behavior and that
there are all
: sorts of accidents and diseases that visit the fatally drunk
beings. I
: wanted to be dead then, in any case, but did not have the guts to
pull the
: plug while there was still booze left and means to obtain it. One
aspect of
: those 'end-days' was the total loneliness. I could be in a pub
talking to
: people but slowly the knowledge grew inside that this was a
plastic world
: filled with plastic people talking plastic talk, the essence that
did not
: last until the next morning. When I reached the point where I
could not
: imagine a life without drink AND also not imagine a life with
drink, I knew
: it was checkmate. I ended up in a mental institution, because of
my
: attempted suicide and they said I must sit in the corner, they
could not do
: anything much for me, save withdrawal, because I was an alcoholic.
Even the
: state nuthouse did not WANT me! That was a bit of a low. I got
out, looked
: up into the cloudless blue that morning and promised God, to His
face, that
: I will never drink again. It took me about a month to find an
excuse to
: break that promise. I drank on for a month but did not even enjoy
it any
: more. In the end booze steals even the plastic pleasure away. Then
I saw an
: article about an AA convention in Port Elizabeth, in 1989, with
the twenty
: questions. I did it and got a full score. I laughed and reckoned
that if
: these people knew all the right questions they might know some of
the right
: answers as well. Went to the Tuesday night meeting of the Port
Elizabeth
: group on the 4'th of April 1989 and has not had a drink since.
More
: important, I have had a life since then, filled with joy and
happiness and
: live real people. I can recognize love and give love. Many things
have
: changed for me and I will say that even before I started drinking
circa 18,
: I was alcoholic in my attitude towards life and how I expressed
myself.
: Although there MUST be other ways to turn this disease around than
AA. Pray
: God that there are, I would recommend that an alcoholic goes to AA
and give
: it a 90 day 90 meetings, whatever, but give AA at least as good a
chance as
: was booze given, to work, with at least as much enthusiasm as ones
drinking
: career. (Or even 1% of both would have sufficed in my case) This I
say for a
: few reasons, just my own perceived reasons as I experienced the
healing
: process:
: . One can not go it alone. One needs that hope and warmth and
witness to
: life being possible without booze. It gave me some of the 'feeling
of
: belonging' that I was searching for in booze.
: . One needs to be able to see that booze effects all people about
the same
: and that what one does when drunk is not all permanent insanity.
One needs
: to learn to laugh at it, when in the past.
: . One needs a structured program. When I started I could only do
simple
: things in a repetitive way because life without booze was strange
and
: frightening to me. 'They' said I must pray when feeling like a
drink. I
: prayed all day!
: . One needs some sort of end goal or vision. Coming from a booze
filled life
: I could only intellectually understand that there was different
families
: with different values where the sun sort of shined on a permanent
and
: predictable basis. Someone who is not an alcoholic will not
understand what
: I am saying here...
: One needs love.
: I am crying as I am writing this and thinking of those dark days.
I thank
: God and AA that I could enter into the light and that my life did
not end 15
: years ago. I wish that I could 'plant' a solution into a still
suffering
: alcoholics mind that will tell them. "Try AA, try SOMETHING, only,
in God's
: name KNOW that there is a beautiful, normal as normal gets, life
without
: booze if only you will reach out and take it.
: So Adrian, yeah, there is a way to have your wish "(Damn I wish I
was a
: normal drinker!!!!!) but then you will have to drink in LIFE.
Believe me,
: life is actually the 'normal drink' for us humans to partake of in
large
: quantities and NOT booze.
: Thinking of you...
: Kind regards
: Mias - 15 years clean and sober and enjoying every second of it!
: .
:
: > I am just looking for peoples personal point of view. I know
what I should
: > be doing but don't want to do it. I know that I should stop the
booze
: again.
: >
: > A little history
: >
: > I have been drinking since I was 16, when I was 26 I met someone
how had
: > cleaned up and they gave me the choice of them or booze. I had
tried many
: > times before that to give up but could not. I decided that love
was more
: > important that alcohol and gave up. I was clean for 4 years. We
split up
: > after 3, but since I was jobless I knew that I could not drink
since it
: > would take everything I had.
: >
: > So, to cut it a bit short, I got a jolt in 2003 and met a girl
who was
: most
: > certainly and alcoholic that I wanted to save. Yeah I know,
shouldn't have
: > done it, but I did. In the end I started drinking because it
became a
: > problem between us, she is now gone, because of her alcoholic
behaviour
: and
: > me not tolerating it even though I am drinking.
: >
: > Well if you got this far you pretty dedicated :-), thanks for
reading all
: > this crap.
: >
: > So to my real question, even though I was sober for 4 years I am
not sure
: > that I am an alcoholic, in truth I know I am but the little
voice is
: trying
: > to convince me that I am a problem drinker. What I really what
to know is
: > that every time I have stopped drinking is for an external
reason, i.e. my
: > girlfriend, no job. Or whatever. The thing that I realise is
that drinking
: > is killing me, but I don't have the self respect to give up on
my own, I
: > need someone else to want me to stop, to stop. Does this make
sense, is
: > there a way round this.
: >
: > Since I started drinking again, I have found so many reasons to
drink,
: they
: > are all the usual ones of "I like myself better when I drink",
and "I can
: be
: > who I want to be".
: >
: > I am not sure if I want to stop, but I know I need too. I know
that I am
: in
: > a self destructive slow suicide faze after a bad relationship,
but I
: suppose
: > I am looking to you guys for a golden carrot for the way out.
: >
: > (Damn I wish I was a normal drinker!!!!!)
: >
: >
: > Adrian
: >
: >
:
:

[rockhound]

Quit...don't quit...if you are a real alcoholic you can't quit - you
can only go 'on the wagon' for awhile. Life'll hand you a wallop some
day and you can revisit the situtation then.

Alcoholism is uncurable. Alcoholics are possessed by an insane urge
to take another drink, no matter how much we don't want to. We watch
ourselves do it and are powerless to stop it. Once succumbed, we lose
all control over the amount we take. Despite all the modern efforts
of psychiatry and medicine known to man, we alcoholics have been
pronounced hopeless. That's why they send us to funny farms and
stuff. At least then we're kept to some degree sedated and out of
trouble, and they can earn a decent income.

Meantime, have you considered that maybe in your case you're just
neurotic? There's all kinds of treatment for that...

See rosie here on this newsgroup - she could line you up with some
happy pills. If you're just an average drinker, that, or
psychotherapy might work for you, and then you can get on with life.
Hell maybe you just need a new girlfriend who can ahem...'show you the
way'?

If you're alcoholic, on the other hand, you will presently find
yourself drinking and unable to stop. Hopefully that isn't the case,
because then you're up shit's creek.



I tried to post to this earlier but i think it got lost in hyperspace
somewhere...sorry if there turn out to be 2 replies.

Dis-abled,

rockhound


On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:34:52 +0000 (UTC), "Adrian"
<nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote:

>I am just looking for peoples personal point of view. I know what I should
>be doing but don't want to do it. I know that I should stop the booze again.
>
>A little history
>
>I have been drinking since I was 16, when I was 26 I met someone how had
>cleaned up and they gave me the choice of them or booze. I had tried many
>times before that to give up but could not. I decided that love was more
>important that alcohol and gave up. I was clean for 4 years. We split up
>after 3, but since I was jobless I knew that I could not drink since it
>would take everything I had.
>
>So, to cut it a bit short, I got a jolt in 2003 and met a girl who was most
>certainly and alcoholic that I wanted to save. Yeah I know, shouldn't have
>done it, but I did. In the end I started drinking because it became a
>problem between us, she is now gone, because of her alcoholic behaviour and
>me not tolerating it even though I am drinking.
>
>Well if you got this far you pretty dedicated :-), thanks for reading all
>this crap.
>
>So to my real question, even though I was sober for 4 years I am not sure
>that I am an alcoholic, in truth I know I am but the little voice is trying
>to convince me that I am a problem drinker. What I really what to know is
>that every time I have stopped drinking is for an external reason, i.e. my
>girlfriend, no job. Or whatever. The thing that I realise is that drinking
>is killing me, but I don't have the self respect to give up on my own, I
>need someone else to want me to stop, to stop. Does this make sense, is
>there a way round this.
>
>Since I started drinking again, I have found so many reasons to drink, they
>are all the usual ones of "I like myself better when I drink", and "I can be
>who I want to be".
>
>I am not sure if I want to stop, but I know I need too. I know that I am in
>a self destructive slow suicide faze after a bad relationship, but I suppose
>I am looking to you guys for a golden carrot for the way out.
>
>(Damn I wish I was a normal drinker!!!!!)
>
>
>Adrian
>

[rockhound]

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:21:04 +0000 (UTC), "Adrian"
<nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote:

>Can someone explain the golden carrot, I think I know what it means, but I
>am not sure.

The golden carrot is up shit's creek.

[rosie]

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:74fa2fec3f597e714f817f2293fdcf9e@news.teranew s.com...
:

:
: Alcoholism is uncurable. Alcoholics are possessed by an insane
urge
: to take another drink, no matter how much we don't want to.



is this your latest excuse to relapse?
pathetic!

[rockhound]

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:03:29 -0500, "rosie"
<sorry@toomanyweirdo's.com> wrote:

>
>
>"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
>news:74fa2fec3f597e714f817f2293fdcf9e@news.teranew s.com...
>:
>
>:
>: Alcoholism is uncurable. Alcoholics are possessed by an insane
>urge
>: to take another drink, no matter how much we don't want to.
>
>
>
>is this your latest excuse to relapse?
>pathetic!

This is a readily observable medical fact.

[rockhound]

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:19:00 GMT, rockhound <user@null.org> wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:03:29 -0500, "rosie"
><sorry@toomanyweirdo's.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
>>news:74fa2fec3f597e714f817f2293fdcf9e@news.teranew s.com...
>>:
>>
>>:
>>: Alcoholism is uncurable. Alcoholics are possessed by an insane
>>urge
>>: to take another drink, no matter how much we don't want to.
>>
>>
>>
>>is this your latest excuse to relapse?
>>pathetic!
>
>This is a readily observable medical fact.
and heavily documented, I might add, in the texts of the very
organization you profess to subscribe to.

[Blue Moon]

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:03:29 -0500, "rosie"
<sorry@toomanyweirdo's.com> wrote:

>
>
>"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
>news:74fa2fec3f597e714f817f2293fdcf9e@news.teranew s.com...
>:
>
>:
>: Alcoholism is uncurable. Alcoholics are possessed by an insane
>urge
>: to take another drink, no matter how much we don't want to.
>
>
>
>is this your latest excuse to relapse?
>pathetic!

Given that AA's basic text confirms this hypothesis, your response is
worth less than something pathetic.

Why don't you just rewrite the Big Book?

--
Blue Moon

[rosie]

BM,
why are you always looking for an argument?
YOUR interpretation of AA'S BASIC TEXT and MINE haven't agreed since
i met you!

if what you do works for you, go for it!
(i have told you and others over and over))

i have found my answers and as you know, share that with those who
ask.........................

--
rosie
http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0422-04.htm




"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d6118ff782eb40827df922ea140fc0b4@news.teranew s.com...
: On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:03:29 -0500, "rosie"
: <sorry@toomanyweirdo's.com> wrote:
:
: >
: >
: >"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
: >news:74fa2fec3f597e714f817f2293fdcf9e@news.teranew s.com...
: >:
: >
: >:
: >: Alcoholism is uncurable. Alcoholics are possessed by an insane
: >urge
: >: to take another drink, no matter how much we don't want to.
: >
: >
: >
: >is this your latest excuse to relapse?
: >pathetic!
:
: Given that AA's basic text confirms this hypothesis, your response
is
: worth less than something pathetic.
:
: Why don't you just rewrite the Big Book?
:
: --
: Blue Moon

[Melia Tomas]

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:6eca581b0d1e283a9af92ef73f3c3736@news.teranew s.com...
> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:19:00 GMT, rockhound <user@null.org> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:03:29 -0500, "rosie"
> ><sorry@toomanyweirdo's.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
> >>news:74fa2fec3f597e714f817f2293fdcf9e@news.teranew s.com...
> >>:
> >>
> >>:
> >>: Alcoholism is uncurable. Alcoholics are possessed by an insane
> >>urge
> >>: to take another drink, no matter how much we don't want to.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>is this your latest excuse to relapse?
> >>pathetic!
> >
> >This is a readily observable medical fact.
> and heavily documented, I might add, in the texts of the very
> organization you profess to subscribe to.
>
I'd like to see where you got this documented fact concerning the above
comment about alcoholism being uncurable. What texts are you talking about?
What pages?

Are you talking about the fact that the disease itself, will never go away?

.... meaning that from the last time you picked up....and say a span of 20
years passes...and then you pick up again, what happens with our "physical"
body parts is a fact that for them, it's just as if we never did stop
drinking for those 20 years, making it all the more possible that only
within a few short months, you could be dead or go permanently insane...

I believe if *that's* what you're talking about when you say that
"Alcoholism is Uncurable" I agree with it being medically
proven..."documented" as you say as a truth.

However, it's the alcoholic is being "Recovered" here within the AA
Program, not the "Alcolholism" itself.

And this Recovery takes place only after you have met a few simple
requirements wihich will produce an entire psychic change or
spiritual/awakening.

"***Rarely*** have we seen a person falil who has ***thouroughly*** followed
our path. Those who do not **RECOVER** are people who cannont or will not
***Completely*** give themselves to this simple Program. (Pg.58)

You see, according to this, what I'm reading is that it *is* possible for
"me", the alcoholic to recovery, but as for the disease itself....not
curable indeed, sort of only put into remission...and only if we just *Don't
Pick Up That 1st Drink Again!

Melia
[thanks for letting me just opinionate here...:-)]


AA

[Blue Moon]

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 11:51:11 -0500, "rosie"
<sorry@toomanyweirdo's.com> wrote:

>why are you always looking for an argument?

I suggest you look in the mirror and ask that question.

>YOUR interpretation of AA'S BASIC TEXT and MINE haven't agreed since
>i met you!

That's nothing new. However, mine is based on what's clearly written
in that text. What's yours based on?

>i have found my answers and as you know, share that with those who
>ask.........................

How is referring to the conclusions of that text as being "pathetic"
compatible with your answers?

--
Blue Moon

[Julie]

"Adrian" <nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote in message
news:c6gafg$pct$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> Thank you all for your views. A few peoples replies made me angry until I
> realised that some of you managed to see that I was still not being honest
> with myself. Thank you for showing me that I am still lying to myself and
I
> thought I was being so honest.
>
> I will keep lurking here, you all seem like good people.
>
> Can someone explain the golden carrot, I think I know what it means, but I
> am not sure.
>
> Thanks again
>
>
> Adrian
> (scared to be dry, scared not to be dry)
>
>
Get you butt to a AA meeting and quit wasting your time lurking here
loooking for solutions that wont appear.
Stop the hiding and get the help you need and deserve Adrain.
Julie

[Julie]

How about sharing some solutions?

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:74fa2fec3f597e714f817f2293fdcf9e@news.teranew s.com...
>
> Quit...don't quit...if you are a real alcoholic you can't quit - you
> can only go 'on the wagon' for awhile. Life'll hand you a wallop some
> day and you can revisit the situtation then.
>
> Alcoholism is uncurable. Alcoholics are possessed by an insane urge
> to take another drink, no matter how much we don't want to. We watch
> ourselves do it and are powerless to stop it. Once succumbed, we lose
> all control over the amount we take. Despite all the modern efforts
> of psychiatry and medicine known to man, we alcoholics have been
> pronounced hopeless. That's why they send us to funny farms and
> stuff. At least then we're kept to some degree sedated and out of
> trouble, and they can earn a decent income.
>
> Meantime, have you considered that maybe in your case you're just
> neurotic? There's all kinds of treatment for that...
>
> See rosie here on this newsgroup - she could line you up with some
> happy pills. If you're just an average drinker, that, or
> psychotherapy might work for you, and then you can get on with life.
> Hell maybe you just need a new girlfriend who can ahem...'show you the
> way'?
>
> If you're alcoholic, on the other hand, you will presently find
> yourself drinking and unable to stop. Hopefully that isn't the case,
> because then you're up shit's creek.
>
>
>
> I tried to post to this earlier but i think it got lost in hyperspace
> somewhere...sorry if there turn out to be 2 replies.
>
> Dis-abled,
>
> rockhound
>
>
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:34:52 +0000 (UTC), "Adrian"
> <nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote:
>
> >I am just looking for peoples personal point of view. I know what I
should
> >be doing but don't want to do it. I know that I should stop the booze
again.
> >
> >A little history
> >
> >I have been drinking since I was 16, when I was 26 I met someone how had
> >cleaned up and they gave me the choice of them or booze. I had tried many
> >times before that to give up but could not. I decided that love was more
> >important that alcohol and gave up. I was clean for 4 years. We split up
> >after 3, but since I was jobless I knew that I could not drink since it
> >would take everything I had.
> >
> >So, to cut it a bit short, I got a jolt in 2003 and met a girl who was
most
> >certainly and alcoholic that I wanted to save. Yeah I know, shouldn't
have
> >done it, but I did. In the end I started drinking because it became a
> >problem between us, she is now gone, because of her alcoholic behaviour
and
> >me not tolerating it even though I am drinking.
> >
> >Well if you got this far you pretty dedicated :-), thanks for reading all
> >this crap.
> >
> >So to my real question, even though I was sober for 4 years I am not sure
> >that I am an alcoholic, in truth I know I am but the little voice is
trying
> >to convince me that I am a problem drinker. What I really what to know is
> >that every time I have stopped drinking is for an external reason, i.e.
my
> >girlfriend, no job. Or whatever. The thing that I realise is that
drinking
> >is killing me, but I don't have the self respect to give up on my own, I
> >need someone else to want me to stop, to stop. Does this make sense, is
> >there a way round this.
> >
> >Since I started drinking again, I have found so many reasons to drink,
they
> >are all the usual ones of "I like myself better when I drink", and "I can
be
> >who I want to be".
> >
> >I am not sure if I want to stop, but I know I need too. I know that I am
in
> >a self destructive slow suicide faze after a bad relationship, but I
suppose
> >I am looking to you guys for a golden carrot for the way out.
> >
> >(Damn I wish I was a normal drinker!!!!!)
> >
> >
> >Adrian
> >
>

[Julie]

Yup, what else could you say.
Got some solutions to share with us?
Julie
"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:0999940cc76843aeb95e91e1a65715d4@news.teranew s.com...
> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:21:04 +0000 (UTC), "Adrian"
> <nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote:
>
> >Can someone explain the golden carrot, I think I know what it means, but
I
> >am not sure.
>
> The golden carrot is up shit's creek.

[Hugh Jarse]

"Julie" <Julie919@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:T9Wic.2382$g31.1322@newsread2.news.atl.earthl ink.net:

>
> "Adrian" <nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote in message
> news:c6gafg$pct$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>> Thank you all for your views. A few peoples replies made me angry
>> until I realised that some of you managed to see that I was still not
>> being honest with myself. Thank you for showing me that I am still
>> lying to myself and
> I
>> thought I was being so honest.
>>
>> I will keep lurking here, you all seem like good people.
>>
>> Can someone explain the golden carrot, I think I know what it means,
>> but I am not sure.
>>
>> Thanks again
>>
>>
>> Adrian
>> (scared to be dry, scared not to be dry)
>>
>>
> Get you butt to a AA meeting and quit wasting your time lurking here
> loooking for solutions that wont appear.
> Stop the hiding and get the help you need and deserve Adrain.
> Julie
>
>
>

Don't sugar coat it. Tell us how you really feel.

Jeff

--
Live simply so that others may simply live.

[rosie]

--
rosie
http://www.moveon.org/front/
REDEFEAT BUSH!






"Hugh Jarse" <jdoe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94D6B315E3029jdoehotmailcom@216.168.3.44.. .
: "Julie" <Julie919@earthlink.net> wrote in
: news:T9Wic.2382$g31.1322@newsread2.news.atl.earthl ink.net:
:
: >
: > "Adrian" <nntp@bluedreamer.com> wrote in message
: > news:c6gafg$pct$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
: >> Thank you all for your views. A few peoples replies made me
angry
: >> until I realised that some of you managed to see that I was
still not
: >> being honest with myself. Thank you for showing me that I am
still
: >> lying to myself and
: > I
: >> thought I was being so honest.
: >>
: >> I will keep lurking here, you all seem like good people.
: >>
: >> Can someone explain the golden carrot, I think I know what it
means,
: >> but I am not sure.
: >>
: >> Thanks again
: >>
: >>
: >> Adrian
: >> (scared to be dry, scared not to be dry)
: >>
: >>
: > Get you butt to a AA meeting and quit wasting your time lurking
here
: > loooking for solutions that wont appear.
: > Stop the hiding and get the help you need and deserve Adrain.
: > Julie
: >
: >
: >
:
: Don't sugar coat it. Tell us how you really feel.
:
: Jeff
:


lol!

[Julie]

It appears that this thread could be used as an example of a dead thread
also.
So sad,
Julie
"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d2d91e854fdd8299d3dc7e3a0f7f4b75@news.teranew s.com...
> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 11:51:11 -0500, "rosie"
> <sorry@toomanyweirdo's.com> wrote:
>
> >why are you always looking for an argument?
>
> I suggest you look in the mirror and ask that question.
>
> >YOUR interpretation of AA'S BASIC TEXT and MINE haven't agreed since
> >i met you!
>
> That's nothing new. However, mine is based on what's clearly written
> in that text. What's yours based on?
>
> >i have found my answers and as you know, share that with those who
> >ask.........................
>
> How is referring to the conclusions of that text as being "pathetic"
> compatible with your answers?
>
> --
> Blue Moon