Seeking advice and reassurance about friend

[Ian]

Hi

I have a new girlfriend, well let's be honest we're both the wrong side of
40!! Anyway I like her loads and we get on really well.

She tells me she is a high bottom drunk.
She went to AA for 5 years, at times daily. Took her daughter, went to
conferences...
18 months ago she convinced herself that she didn't need them because she
wasn't really an alcoholic.
She and I met 10 weeks ago and during that time I have seen her behave
perfectly normally with alcohol use, we'd go out for meals and drink, we go
to pubs and meet friends and have a drink. I would say looking back that she
drank as much as I did and our body weights are similar. She never drank
less than me, never switched to a soft drink.

Now the worries
She stayed over with me over Easter, 9 days or so. During that time two
occasions showed up as abnormal. We hadn't eaten and went to pub, she drank
wine, I drank beer and it became obvious walking home that she was very
drunk. I made some food and had to feed her and got her to drink water and
she then slept till morning. She has virtually no recollection from leaving
the pub until waking in the morning. I accept that anyone can get like that.
A few days later I left her alone at my place in late afternoon whilst I
went to collect my goddaughter who was coming to stay for the night. On my
return at around 7pm I found her drunk, she had had two whiskeys. She got
herself together and we prepared a meal and I got myself a glass of wine and
with a little difficulty persuaded her that she needed to sober up a bit and
not drink more. She raided my glass, I treated it in fun but by bed time she
was stroppy and went to bed and went out like a light.
The following afternoon I made her realise I was very concerned and she
agreed that she was an alcoholic and asked me to take her to an AA meeting,
which I did an hour or so later.

She is very intelligent, tells me she will have no trouble not drinking,
that I should not feel the need to change my alcohol consumption to support
her. I am separated, divorce and finance issues to go through yet and it
will be a stressful time. She is starting to go to AA back at her home but I
sense she has a lack of empathy with them since she feels her problem is so
less serious/destructive than many who turn to AA.

What does the future hold? What risks am I taking?

[Robert McGregor]

"Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE addinsell.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c62s87$dmr$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> What does the future hold? What risks am I taking?
>

Do you really think readings here will be worth every cent you pay for
them?

Did you try alt.recovery-from.fortune telling before coming here?

I'll close now, leaving the fortune telling to our resident experts.

Bob

[Ian]

Remember that I am totally ignorant here. I don't know what 'high bottom
drunk' means. That at least is something I thought to get an explanation of.
And the "future" is about where does this sort of alcoholism lead,
typically, to those horrors that some here describe or not.

Ian

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:c62vaf$7e51f$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE addinsell.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:c62s87$dmr$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> >
> > What does the future hold? What risks am I taking?
> >
>
> Do you really think readings here will be worth every cent you pay for
> them?
>
> Did you try alt.recovery-from.fortune telling before coming here?
>
> I'll close now, leaving the fortune telling to our resident experts.
>
> Bob
>
>

[Robert McGregor]

Seems in this instance my arrogance was exceeded only by my
intolerance. For that, Ian, I apologise.

A high bottom drunk is typically someone who stops drinking early in
the progressive downward spiral of typical alcoholism, escaping the
proverbial jails, mental institutions, and ugly, untimely death
regarded as inevitable for alcoholics who continue to drink. I trust
that has answered your question with reasonable accuracy.

Self praise being as suspect as self abasement, I suggest you visit
Al-Anon, telephone or face to face via http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/
or online per http://www.ola-is.org/ where you may gain a more useful
perspective from the experiences of friends and family of alcoholics.

Bob


"Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE addinsell.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c630a8$jrs$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> Remember that I am totally ignorant here. I don't know what 'high
bottom
> drunk' means. That at least is something I thought to get an
explanation of.
> And the "future" is about where does this sort of alcoholism lead,
> typically, to those horrors that some here describe or not.
>
> Ian
>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:c62vaf$7e51f$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE addinsell.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:c62s87$dmr$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> > >
> > > What does the future hold? What risks am I taking?
> > >
> >
> > Do you really think readings here will be worth every cent you pay
for
> > them?
> >
> > Did you try alt.recovery-from.fortune telling before coming here?
> >
> > I'll close now, leaving the fortune telling to our resident
experts.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
>

[JB]

"Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE addinsell.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c62s87$dmr$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
<snip>

> She is very intelligent, tells me she will have no trouble not
drinking,
> that I should not feel the need to change my alcohol consumption to
support
> her. I am separated, divorce and finance issues to go through yet
and it
> will be a stressful time. She is starting to go to AA back at her
home but I
> sense she has a lack of empathy with them since she feels her
problem is so
> less serious/destructive than many who turn to AA.
>
> What does the future hold? What risks am I taking?
>
If your girlfriend decides that she is abusing alcohol and no longer
wants the life it's giving her, she has to decide for herself to take
action that will change her situation. Until such times as she makes
this decision and then does what she thinks she needs to avoid
finding herself again in that situation there is IMO little you can do
for her. If her drinking bothers you maybe you'll benefit from going
to Al Anon meetings.

Incidentally, your situation reminds me of the difficulties a friend
has. Her description of her husband's behaviour suggests to me that
he may be an alcoholic and also that he intends to do nothing
different to that which he's already doing. As my friend cannot get
her husband to do anything that he doesn't want to do, she's decided
that what's
best for her is to take care of herself - mentally and physically.. In
so doing she's giving herself the chance to become better equipped
than she is at present to deal with whatever her husband does.

HTH

JB

[rosie]

: ....................The following afternoon I made her realise I
was very concerned and she
: agreed that she was an alcoholic and asked me to take her to an AA
meeting,
: which I did an hour or so later.
:
: She is very intelligent, tells me she will have no trouble not
drinking,
: that I should not feel the need to change my alcohol consumption
to support
: her. I am separated, divorce and finance issues to go through yet
and it
: will be a stressful time. She is starting to go to AA back at her
home but I
: sense she has a lack of empathy with them since she feels her
problem is so
: less serious/destructive than many who turn to AA.
:
: What does the future hold? What risks am I taking?
:
:

are you wondering how you life will be with a women who is in
recovery?
if you ask my husband, he will tell you "WONDERFUL"!
:)
ian,
i have seen relationships flourish in recovery, as well as collapse,
there is no way to tell you what will happen.
while your girlfriend is getting herself straightened out and back
in recovery, how about taking care of yourself?
there are support groups out there for the family and friends of
alcoholics called ALANON.
here is just one of the sites:
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/ola/

best of everything to you and yours!
rosie

[Ian]

Thanks to you all so far. The reason I am here rather than alanon I guess is
that, like I suspect my girlfriend feels toward AA, that there are others
who have done or are causing great hurt to themselves and others through
alcohol and this seems to be what is being addressed in the web sites i
visited. The scale of the problem that she has and that i am asking about as
her partner seem insignificant in the global scale of alcoholism, but are
scarey to me as an individual. I guess that the next step - human contact
into alanon - will reveal if we have a big enough issue to be considered in
need of support, there are obviously many in much greater need.

Ian

"rosie" <sorry@toomanymalcontents.com> wrote in message
news:UR8hc.72482$YC5.58217@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> : ....................The following afternoon I made her realise I
> was very concerned and she
> : agreed that she was an alcoholic and asked me to take her to an AA
> meeting,
> : which I did an hour or so later.
> :
> : She is very intelligent, tells me she will have no trouble not
> drinking,
> : that I should not feel the need to change my alcohol consumption
> to support
> : her. I am separated, divorce and finance issues to go through yet
> and it
> : will be a stressful time. She is starting to go to AA back at her
> home but I
> : sense she has a lack of empathy with them since she feels her
> problem is so
> : less serious/destructive than many who turn to AA.
> :
> : What does the future hold? What risks am I taking?
> :
> :
>
> are you wondering how you life will be with a women who is in
> recovery?
> if you ask my husband, he will tell you "WONDERFUL"!
> :)
> ian,
> i have seen relationships flourish in recovery, as well as collapse,
> there is no way to tell you what will happen.
> while your girlfriend is getting herself straightened out and back
> in recovery, how about taking care of yourself?
> there are support groups out there for the family and friends of
> alcoholics called ALANON.
> here is just one of the sites:
> http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/ola/
>
> best of everything to you and yours!
> rosie
>
>

[Ian]

Thanks for reconsidering, much appreciated.

So may I ask how someone knows they are a 'high bottom drunk', whether it is
at times a false classification that an alcoholic would prefer to be
associated or is it easily diagnosed by behaviour.

Ian

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:c631kp$78siv$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Seems in this instance my arrogance was exceeded only by my
> intolerance. For that, Ian, I apologise.
>
> A high bottom drunk is typically someone who stops drinking early in
> the progressive downward spiral of typical alcoholism, escaping the
> proverbial jails, mental institutions, and ugly, untimely death
> regarded as inevitable for alcoholics who continue to drink. I trust
> that has answered your question with reasonable accuracy.
>
> Self praise being as suspect as self abasement, I suggest you visit
> Al-Anon, telephone or face to face via http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/
> or online per http://www.ola-is.org/ where you may gain a more useful
> perspective from the experiences of friends and family of alcoholics.
>
> Bob
>
>
> "Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE addinsell.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:c630a8$jrs$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> > Remember that I am totally ignorant here. I don't know what 'high
> bottom
> > drunk' means. That at least is something I thought to get an
> explanation of.
> > And the "future" is about where does this sort of alcoholism lead,
> > typically, to those horrors that some here describe or not.
> >
> > Ian
> >
> > "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:c62vaf$7e51f$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > "Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE addinsell.co.uk> wrote in message
> > > news:c62s87$dmr$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> > > >
> > > > What does the future hold? What risks am I taking?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Do you really think readings here will be worth every cent you pay
> for
> > > them?
> > >
> > > Did you try alt.recovery-from.fortune telling before coming here?
> > >
> > > I'll close now, leaving the fortune telling to our resident
> experts.
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Robert McGregor]

"Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE addinsell.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c63a6t$5a8$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> Thanks for reconsidering, much appreciated.
>
> So may I ask how someone knows they are a 'high bottom drunk',
whether it is
> at times a false classification that an alcoholic would prefer to be
> associated or is it easily diagnosed by behaviour.
>

Ian, I believe nothing of merit in this arena is easy.

The most accurate descriptions of alcoholics I am aware of were
written over half a century ago. They are in the book, "Alcoholics
Anonymous," http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm "The
Doctors Opinion" also Chapters Two and Three.

The "Doctors Opinion" specifies only one factor common to all real
alcoholics, the phenomena of craving arising *after* ingesting
alcohol, (as distinct from the drug addicts more prevalent today, who
have difficulty with craving *before* they get their "drug of
choice.") The other chapters refer also to a lack of defence against
the first drink when the alcoholic is sober, taken due to alcoholic
insanity, as distinct from a craving.

That about covers the basic facts as I see them. Hopefully I've given
sufficient pointers for you to read more properly endorsed material
for yourself. Then, in the light of what you have seen first hand, you
will probably have a better idea of what, in your situation, are the
right questions to ask of Al-Anons. (some of whom do lurk and post
here occasionally)

Bob


>
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:c631kp$78siv$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Seems in this instance my arrogance was exceeded only by my
> > intolerance. For that, Ian, I apologise.
> >
> > A high bottom drunk is typically someone who stops drinking early
in
> > the progressive downward spiral of typical alcoholism, escaping
the
> > proverbial jails, mental institutions, and ugly, untimely death
> > regarded as inevitable for alcoholics who continue to drink. I
trust
> > that has answered your question with reasonable accuracy.
> >
> > Self praise being as suspect as self abasement, I suggest you
visit
> > Al-Anon, telephone or face to face via
http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/
> > or online per http://www.ola-is.org/ where you may gain a more
useful
> > perspective from the experiences of friends and family of
alcoholics.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > "Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE addinsell.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:c630a8$jrs$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> > > Remember that I am totally ignorant here. I don't know what
'high
> > bottom
> > > drunk' means. That at least is something I thought to get an
> > explanation of.
> > > And the "future" is about where does this sort of alcoholism
lead,
> > > typically, to those horrors that some here describe or not.
> > >
> > > Ian
> > >
> > > "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
message
> > > news:c62vaf$7e51f$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > >
> > > > "Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE addinsell.co.uk> wrote in message
> > > > news:c62s87$dmr$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> > > > >
> > > > > What does the future hold? What risks am I taking?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Do you really think readings here will be worth every cent you
pay
> > for
> > > > them?
> > > >
> > > > Did you try alt.recovery-from.fortune telling before coming
here?
> > > >
> > > > I'll close now, leaving the fortune telling to our resident
> > experts.
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Kirk S.]

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:c63dei$7g9kh$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE addinsell.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:c63a6t$5a8$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> > Thanks for reconsidering, much appreciated.
> >
> > So may I ask how someone knows they are a 'high bottom drunk',
> whether it is
> > at times a false classification that an alcoholic would prefer to be
> > associated or is it easily diagnosed by behaviour.
> >
>
> Ian, I believe nothing of merit in this arena is easy.
>
> The most accurate descriptions of alcoholics I am aware of were
> written over half a century ago. They are in the book, "Alcoholics
> Anonymous," http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm "The
> Doctors Opinion" also Chapters Two and Three.
>
> The "Doctors Opinion" specifies only one factor common to all real
> alcoholics, the phenomena of craving arising *after* ingesting
> alcohol, (as distinct from the drug addicts more prevalent today, who
> have difficulty with craving *before* they get their "drug of
> choice.") The other chapters refer also to a lack of defence against
> the first drink when the alcoholic is sober, taken due to alcoholic
> insanity, as distinct from a craving.
>
> That about covers the basic facts as I see them. Hopefully I've given
> sufficient pointers for you to read more properly endorsed material
> for yourself. Then, in the light of what you have seen first hand, you
> will probably have a better idea of what, in your situation, are the
> right questions to ask of Al-Anons. (some of whom do lurk and post
> here occasionally)
>
> Bob
>
From my own experience, all of this is true. Being unable or unwilling to
stop after the first drink was common to me. Knowing this and still taking
the first drink is a pretty good definition of insanity. It is like hitting
myself on the thumb with a hammer and expecting it not to hurt.

Thanks Bob!

Kirk S.

P.S. Same goes with the "High Bottom Drunk" definition.
>
> >
> > "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:c631kp$78siv$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > Seems in this instance my arrogance was exceeded only by my
> > > intolerance. For that, Ian, I apologise.
> > >
> > > A high bottom drunk is typically someone who stops drinking early
> in
> > > the progressive downward spiral of typical alcoholism, escaping
> the
> > > proverbial jails, mental institutions, and ugly, untimely death
> > > regarded as inevitable for alcoholics who continue to drink. I
> trust
> > > that has answered your question with reasonable accuracy.
> > >
> > > Self praise being as suspect as self abasement, I suggest you
> visit
> > > Al-Anon, telephone or face to face via
> http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/
> > > or online per http://www.ola-is.org/ where you may gain a more
> useful
> > > perspective from the experiences of friends and family of
> alcoholics.
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > > "Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE addinsell.co.uk> wrote in message
> > > news:c630a8$jrs$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> > > > Remember that I am totally ignorant here. I don't know what
> 'high
> > > bottom
> > > > drunk' means. That at least is something I thought to get an
> > > explanation of.
> > > > And the "future" is about where does this sort of alcoholism
> lead,
> > > > typically, to those horrors that some here describe or not.
> > > >
> > > > Ian
> > > >
> > > > "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> message
> > > > news:c62vaf$7e51f$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE addinsell.co.uk> wrote in message
> > > > > news:c62s87$dmr$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What does the future hold? What risks am I taking?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you really think readings here will be worth every cent you
> pay
> > > for
> > > > > them?
> > > > >
> > > > > Did you try alt.recovery-from.fortune telling before coming
> here?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll close now, leaving the fortune telling to our resident
> > > experts.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:58:31 +0100, "Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE
addinsell.co.uk> wrote:

>What does the future hold? What risks am I taking?

The million $ question.

I've no idea what the future holds, nor even what risks you are
taking. Her motives for attending AA are unclear to me.

A high-bottom drunk is generally defined as someone who *sobers up*
without losing too much physically.

Physically, I was a relatively high-bottom drunk in that I'd not ended
up in jail, lost my driving license, lost my job, etc. etc.

Compared with others, I could be considered a lower-bottom drunk. I
lost family, house, lived on the streets a while, had physical
withdrawal, etc. Emotionally, my bottom was low.

But the point is, I sobered up when I sobered up. If your partner is
drinking, by definition she has not hit her own bottom with booze so
is neither a "high bottom" nor a "low bottom" drunk at this time.

One potential issue with being "high bottom" is with AA's own Step 1,
which I believe is necessary to understand for AA-based recovery to
work. A close friend of mine couldn't even tie his own shoelaces and
knew that one more drink would physically kill him. He really had no
lower to go physically, so after drying out had no difficulty
recognising his inability to handle liquor. A high-bottom alcoholic
can have more difficulty in this area by maintaining a belief that
normal drinking could still be possible.

Of course, the lowest bottom of all is 6 feet under.

And, if she is genuinely alcoholic, she cannot honestly tell you
she'll have no trouble not drinking, If this was true, she'd have had
no need to go to AA. That's another clue to me that she is
experiencing difficulty with the first Step of AA's recovery program.

So I don't know what the future holds. But if she was once as
involved in any recovery as you suggest, I can't see how drinking into
blackout and feeling any need to raid drinks now can be any enjoyment
at all.

Regarding al-anon, the only requirement to become a member is to have
a problem with someone else's drinking. You clearly qualify for
membership.

--
Blue Moon

[Blue Moon]

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:32:25 +0100, "Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE
addinsell.co.uk> wrote:

>I guess that the next step - human contact
>into alanon - will reveal if we have a big enough issue to be considered in
>need of support, there are obviously many in much greater need.

In looking at the chart at: http://www.aamolly.org.uk/faq.htm your own
descriptions could put your girlfriend into the chart author's
"Chronic Phase" of alcoholism, which would be more than sufficient
need.

--
Blue Moon

[Robert McGregor]

"Kirk S." <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:MHbhc.588$kk7.280@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> From my own experience, all of this is true. Being unable or
unwilling to
> stop after the first drink was common to me. Knowing this and still
taking
> the first drink is a pretty good definition of insanity. It is like
hitting
> myself on the thumb with a hammer and expecting it not to hurt.
>
> Thanks Bob!
>

To no avail, drinking alcoholics try all sorts of tricks *before* the
fact to stop it hurting. Given you don't differentiate between unable
and unwilling, the odds are you were merely self medicating, and never
an alcoholic anyway.

Bob

[M]

"Ian" <ian@ RE MOVE addinsell.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c62s87$dmr$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> Hi
>
> I have a new girlfriend, well let's be honest we're both the wrong side of
> 40!! Anyway I like her loads and we get on really well.
>
> She tells me she is a high bottom drunk.
> She went to AA for 5 years, at times daily. Took her daughter, went to
> conferences...
> 18 months ago she convinced herself that she didn't need them because she
> wasn't really an alcoholic.
> She and I met 10 weeks ago and during that time I have seen her behave
> perfectly normally with alcohol use, we'd go out for meals and drink, we
go
> to pubs and meet friends and have a drink. I would say looking back that
she
> drank as much as I did and our body weights are similar. She never drank
> less than me, never switched to a soft drink.
>
> Now the worries
> She stayed over with me over Easter, 9 days or so. During that time two
> occasions showed up as abnormal. We hadn't eaten and went to pub, she
drank
> wine, I drank beer and it became obvious walking home that she was very
> drunk. I made some food and had to feed her and got her to drink water and
> she then slept till morning. She has virtually no recollection from
leaving
> the pub until waking in the morning. I accept that anyone can get like
that.
> A few days later I left her alone at my place in late afternoon whilst I
> went to collect my goddaughter who was coming to stay for the night. On my
> return at around 7pm I found her drunk, she had had two whiskeys. She got
> herself together and we prepared a meal and I got myself a glass of wine
and
> with a little difficulty persuaded her that she needed to sober up a bit
and
> not drink more. She raided my glass, I treated it in fun but by bed time
she
> was stroppy and went to bed and went out like a light.
> The following afternoon I made her realise I was very concerned and she
> agreed that she was an alcoholic and asked me to take her to an AA
meeting,
> which I did an hour or so later.
>
> She is very intelligent, tells me she will have no trouble not drinking,
> that I should not feel the need to change my alcohol consumption to
support
> her. I am separated, divorce and finance issues to go through yet and it
> will be a stressful time. She is starting to go to AA back at her home but
I
> sense she has a lack of empathy with them since she feels her problem is
so
> less serious/destructive than many who turn to AA.
>
> What does the future hold? What risks am I taking?
>
>

Hey Ian,

I know nothing about your girlfriend. I can only speak from my own
experience and observations.

I might be a "high-bottom" drunk because I had stuff when I got sober--a
house, cars, money and a job. But, I "was" powerless over alcohol...when I
picked up a drink, it was a pretty good bet I would lose control of how much
I drank. I would get sloppy when I didn't intend to....and when I did
intend to! That happened over and over. Thousands of times. When I asked
for help and got sober, it became clear to me that I wasn't a "normal"
drinker. All the episodes, all the situations, all the consequences were
not just bad luck or a little phase.

My observation is that, for most people who try to get sober, it isn't just
a single incident or two that is the motivator. It is a pattern of abusive
drinking that drives many of us to seek help. There is nothing that has
happened to me since I got sober over 7 years ago that makes me think I
would be a different drinker now than I was then...well, I'm older, it might
be worse.... I've never been in an AA meeting where someone walked in and
said they had gotten sober and started to drink again and found they were
really normal drinker and just over-reacted a little. There are lots of
people who try it with disastrous results, though.

Getting sober for me wasn't fun. I was sensitive, emotional, depressed, and
didn't know how to deal with all the feelings I was having. I was probably
detoxing physically but that was over in days/weeks. The other mental stuff
was a bit more challenging. My point is that, if your friend is like me,
she will be going through lots of "stuff". That may have an impact on your
relationship with her. When your items(the divorce/finance things) are
piled on top, it might make for an exciting time. But, last I looked, I
don't have a crystal ball. I don't even know who is sober today besides
me...my mind reading talents are about as good as my drunk driving
abilities--they get me in trouble!

Folks in AA (that would include me) suggest to people that they focus on
similarities rather than differences. But that easy to say but sometimes
hard for people to do. I thought I was too old, too smart, and not good
enough to get sober. It made me crazy! I hope your friend can find the
sameness.

Good luck,

M

[Ron]

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:38:38 +1000, Robert McGregor
<robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> To no avail, drinking alcoholics try all sorts of tricks *before* the
> fact to stop it hurting. Given you don't differentiate between unable
> and unwilling, the odds are you were merely self medicating, and never
> an alcoholic anyway.

Hmm, I am blessed with anesthetic amnesia. A couple day's worth of
recuperation, all pain is forgotten, and I become my own worst enemy.
Never really tried to trick myself, just others who might be a bother on
account of their damn puritanical ideas about excess.

--
AB5DB9CC

[Robert McGregor]

M wrote:
>
> Hey Ian,
>
>I've never been
> in an AA meeting where someone walked in and said they had gotten
> sober and started to drink again and found they were really normal
> drinker and just over-reacted a little. There are lots of people
who
> try it with disastrous results, though.
>
>
> Folks in AA (that would include me) suggest to people that they
focus
> on similarities rather than differences. But that easy to say but
> sometimes hard for people to do. I thought I was too old, too
smart,
> and not good enough to get sober. It made me crazy! I hope your
> friend can find the sameness.
>

Those are certainly *classic* examples of AA promotion.

Would you really expect folk who, having matured emotionally and
learned how to apply moderation to their lives, including their
drinking; return to the babble of AA meetings to lecture on their
alcohol moderation?

Regardless of isms, would you really expect all human beings *not* to
have similarities?

I think not.

Bob

[rosie]

"Ron" <can@the.spam> wrote in message
news:Nrlhc.37481$ru4.36835@attbi_s52...

: Hmm, I am blessed with anesthetic amnesia. A couple day's worth
of
: recuperation, all pain is forgotten, and I become my own worst
enemy.



YUP!
as i was reading the posts in here this morning, i was reminded that
i was at times a PHONE DRUNK, something i had
forgotten...............nice reminder or some VERY embarrassing
times!
thanks group for lifting the anesthetic!

[Catharina Hogarth]

> right questions to ask of Al-Anons. (some of whom do lurk and post
> here occasionally)
>

....searching for an Al-Anon newsgroup :-)

[Catharina Hogarth]

>
> To no avail, drinking alcoholics try all sorts of tricks *before* the
> fact to stop it hurting. Given you don't differentiate between unable
> and unwilling, the odds are you were merely self medicating, and never
> an alcoholic anyway.
>
> Bob
>
>

As a very recent x-wife of someone who is constantly (yes, still, even after
I left) saying that he is self-medicating when "the squirls are running" in
his head, what is the difference between self-medicating and being an
alcoholic? What am I missing here? Isn't the result the same? I'm married
to the town drunk because the f...ng squirls never give up, do they!

[Robert McGregor]

"Catharina Hogarth" <catharina_hogarth@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:108mcso6vue3gfb@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > right questions to ask of Al-Anons. (some of whom do lurk and post
> > here occasionally)
> >
>
> ...searching for an Al-Anon newsgroup :-)
>
>

I think most Al-Anons that do use Usenet can be found here:-

http://tinyurl.com/344bf

[Robert McGregor]

"Catharina Hogarth" <catharina_hogarth@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:108md7k9sfm8g31@corp.supernews.com...
>
> >
> > To no avail, drinking alcoholics try all sorts of tricks *before*
the
> > fact to stop it hurting. Given you don't differentiate between
unable
> > and unwilling, the odds are you were merely self medicating, and
never
> > an alcoholic anyway.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
> As a very recent x-wife of someone who is constantly (yes, still,
even after
> I left) saying that he is self-medicating when "the squirls are
running" in
> his head, what is the difference between self-medicating and being
an
> alcoholic? What am I missing here? Isn't the result the same? I'm
married
> to the town drunk because the f...ng squirls never give up, do they!
>

If you are indeed the ex wife, it appears to me the most important
thing you are missing is the reality that you are the *ex* wife.

The result may *appear* to be the same, but when focus shifts to
solutions, different causes arguably necessitate different solutions.

Should you still want to comprehend the incomprehensible, you could
start your search @ http://tinyurl.com/2yyej

HTH

PS. alt.recovery http://tinyurl.com/2z4kp , with the exception of the
usual trolls and spam, is barely used. Therefore alt.recovery would be
an on-topic meeting place for Al-Anons/Al-Ateens unwilling to start a
dedicated newsgroup. If support for such a proposal existed, it would
probably be found via http://www.ola-is.org/

Bob

[Catharina Hogarth]

>
> If you are indeed the ex wife, it appears to me the most important
> thing you are missing is the reality that you are the *ex* wife.
>

Just because I'm the ex-wife does not mean I don't care about the 21+ years
of my life I spent loving this man and watching him fall into this pit of
dispare. I can only hope and pray that he will find what he is looking for
and, with any luck, he will then come looking for me again. Until then I
need to get on with my life. I don't think I will ever stop caring but I
also don't think I will ever understand either. That's something I will
just have to accept.

Thanks for the help to find an on-line Al-Anon group. There is one in the
Google Groups for family and friends and I'll leave the AA group to the A's.

Best of luck,
Cat =^..^=

[rosie]

:
: ...searching for an Al-Anon newsgroup :-)
:
:

ALT.RECOVERY FAMILY+FRIENDS
but it is not active.