Happy Belated Easter

[Christine]

Howdy all! I hope everyone is doing well ... I haven't been here in about a
week for a few reasons - I've been very busy :) and we just bought a new
computer and are in the process of switching everything over to the new one -
quite a chore apparently because the old one is just that - old! - and I guess
it can't keep up with the new one. I don't know, I have nothing to do with it,
thankfully. I just watch my Dad pulling his hair out, dropping F-bombs every 2
seconds.

So, yeah, and I've been busy. Good busy. Sober busy. I would like to share
with all of you how my week has been, if you have the time to sit and read.

As some of you may or may not know, I am in a 2 year relationship with a
wonderful man who I consider to be my soul-mate (you don't have to believe in
soul-mates, just believe that I believe). Since I have first made this journey
into sobriety, I moved back home with my parents until I get my head on strait
and my debt in check, which is over an hour drive away from my dear boyfriend.
"We" have been making this work with phone calls, emails, and (this is why the
we is in quotations) me driving up there at least once a week to visit. He has
been down here only twice. It wasn't really an issue for me - his excuses were
valid for the most part. However, a couple of weeks ago, as I am doing work on
my steps, I realized that it truly does bother me, and not just because
everyone tells me it should. One of my character defects I have come to learn
is being a doormat when involved in an intimate relationship. I was giving a
lot, expecting a lot in return, but getting nothing. A toxic mix with this
brain of mine. So after talking with my sponsor and a couple of other friends
that have been through similar circumstances, I put up boundaries of our
relationship. I had a long conversation with him last week - what sacrifices
was he willing to make for this relationship? How far is he willing to go to
make it work? The way I was looking at it was, with the support of my family
and the friends I've made in the program, I could get through a horrible
breakup with the man I love. However, going through a relationship, being let
down every weekend, and endless rollercoaster of high's and low's, would be
virtually insupportable. I had to take action and then work through the
consiquences. I prayed and tried to have no expectations (good or bad) even
when he said he was coming down Friday night.

So Friday came along, and I spent the whole day with my 3 year old nefew and
brother-in-law, playing outside in the nice warm sun. It was a wonderful day
and helped keep my wild mind occupied as to avoid those dreaded expectations.
Friday night - guess who came down? Yeah, baby. And we had a wonderful night
and talked through a lot of what has been on my mind, and a lot of what has
been on his. It was wonderful. We both made a promise to each other to make
this work - both give what we can to the relationship while working on getting
our own lives together. I do believe we will both try.

Of course, this is just one night, and I can't let my hopes get too high only
to be let down ...

The point of my little story is, I really do, for the first time, feel I have
really *taken* the first 3 steps and I'm starting to peel away the onion -
fearlessly and thorough. I feel as if I am making decisions through thought
and prayer rather than with emotions/fear. No more instant gratification, it's
prayer and meditation. Procrastination being another of my character defects,
I have to keep a close eye on when I'm putting something off for too long,
lying, telling myself I'm praying on it - lol :)

Anyway, another wonderful experience, was Easter dinner at my uncles house.
Wine and beer being poured freely and, you know what? Not one urge - didn't
even want it. And I wasn't even feeling sorry for myself because I "couldn't"
- it was not even a thought. Amazing. And this isn't a high feeling like I've
had before, that pink cloud feeling, that I could come crashing off of any
minute. This is a peace, a stream of even, warms feelings. I am becoming
secure in my own skin, comfortable with the path I choose to walk down every
day.

Thanks everyone for listening,
have a good day,
Christine

[Robert McGregor]

"Christine" <ctbean3@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040415002718.03610.00000349@mb-m25.aol.com...
> Howdy all! I hope everyone is doing well ... I haven't been here in
about a
> week for a few reasons - I've been very busy :) and we just bought a
new
> computer and are in the process of switching everything over to the
new one -
> quite a chore apparently because the old one is just that - old! -
and I guess
> it can't keep up with the new one. I don't know, I have nothing to
do with it,
> thankfully. I just watch my Dad pulling his hair out, dropping
F-bombs every 2
> seconds.
>
> So, yeah, and I've been busy. Good busy. Sober busy. I would like
to share
> with all of you how my week has been, if you have the time to sit
and read.
>
> As some of you may or may not know, I am in a 2 year relationship
with a
> wonderful man who I consider to be my soul-mate (you don't have to
believe in
> soul-mates, just believe that I believe). Since I have first made
this journey
> into sobriety, I moved back home with my parents until I get my head
on strait
> and my debt in check, which is over an hour drive away from my dear
boyfriend.
> "We" have been making this work with phone calls, emails, and (this
is why the
> we is in quotations) me driving up there at least once a week to
visit. He has
> been down here only twice. It wasn't really an issue for me - his
excuses were
> valid for the most part. However, a couple of weeks ago, as I am
doing work on
> my steps, I realized that it truly does bother me, and not just
because
> everyone tells me it should. One of my character defects I have
come to learn
> is being a doormat when involved in an intimate relationship. I was
giving a
> lot, expecting a lot in return, but getting nothing. A toxic mix
with this
> brain of mine. So after talking with my sponsor and a couple of
other friends
> that have been through similar circumstances, I put up boundaries of
our
> relationship. I had a long conversation with him last week - what
sacrifices
> was he willing to make for this relationship? How far is he willing
to go to
> make it work? The way I was looking at it was, with the support of
my family
> and the friends I've made in the program, I could get through a
horrible
> breakup with the man I love. However, going through a relationship,
being let
> down every weekend, and endless rollercoaster of high's and low's,
would be
> virtually insupportable. I had to take action and then work through
the
> consiquences. I prayed and tried to have no expectations (good or
bad) even
> when he said he was coming down Friday night.
>
> So Friday came along, and I spent the whole day with my 3 year old
nefew and
> brother-in-law, playing outside in the nice warm sun. It was a
wonderful day
> and helped keep my wild mind occupied as to avoid those dreaded
expectations.
> Friday night - guess who came down? Yeah, baby. And we had a
wonderful night
> and talked through a lot of what has been on my mind, and a lot of
what has
> been on his. It was wonderful. We both made a promise to each other
to make
> this work - both give what we can to the relationship while working
on getting
> our own lives together. I do believe we will both try.
>
> Of course, this is just one night, and I can't let my hopes get too
high only
> to be let down ...
>
> The point of my little story is, I really do, for the first time,
feel I have
> really *taken* the first 3 steps and I'm starting to peel away the
onion -
> fearlessly and thorough. I feel as if I am making decisions through
thought
> and prayer rather than with emotions/fear. No more instant
gratification, it's
> prayer and meditation. Procrastination being another of my
character defects,
> I have to keep a close eye on when I'm putting something off for too
long,
> lying, telling myself I'm praying on it - lol :)
>
> Anyway, another wonderful experience, was Easter dinner at my uncles
house.
> Wine and beer being poured freely and, you know what? Not one
urge - didn't
> even want it. And I wasn't even feeling sorry for myself because I
"couldn't"
> - it was not even a thought. Amazing. And this isn't a high
feeling like I've
> had before, that pink cloud feeling, that I could come crashing off
of any
> minute. This is a peace, a stream of even, warms feelings. I am
becoming
> secure in my own skin, comfortable with the path I choose to walk
down every
> day.
>
> Thanks everyone for listening,
> have a good day,
> Christine

Christine, for my part, I believe that if your story is as truthful as
it seems, and you proceed diligently through the "cleaning house"
process, (steps 4 -10) you will be astounded how the removal of much
fear, resentment, and guilt; can enable an infinitely richer, and
practical, meditation experience.

My point about the efficacy of sequential step 11 is very easy to
explain, too. How many valid "best choice" options could be all too
easily ignored because of subliminal guilts, fears, and resentments?

Bob

[Alana Morgan]

in article 20040415002718.03610.00000349@mb-m25.aol.com, Christine at
ctbean3@aol.com wrote on 4/15/04 12:27 AM:

> Howdy all! I hope everyone is doing well ... I haven't been here in about a
> week for a few reasons - I've been very busy :) and we just bought a new
> computer and are in the process of switching everything over to the new one -
> quite a chore apparently because the old one is just that - old! - and I guess
> it can't keep up with the new one. I don't know, I have nothing to do with
> it,
> thankfully. I just watch my Dad pulling his hair out, dropping F-bombs every
> 2
> seconds.
>
> So, yeah, and I've been busy. Good busy. Sober busy. I would like to share
> with all of you how my week has been, if you have the time to sit and read.
>
> As some of you may or may not know, I am in a 2 year relationship with a
> wonderful man who I consider to be my soul-mate (you don't have to believe in
> soul-mates, just believe that I believe). Since I have first made this
> journey
> into sobriety, I moved back home with my parents until I get my head on strait
> and my debt in check, which is over an hour drive away from my dear boyfriend.
> "We" have been making this work with phone calls, emails, and (this is why the
> we is in quotations) me driving up there at least once a week to visit. He
> has
> been down here only twice. It wasn't really an issue for me - his excuses
> were
> valid for the most part. However, a couple of weeks ago, as I am doing work
> on
> my steps, I realized that it truly does bother me, and not just because
> everyone tells me it should. One of my character defects I have come to learn
> is being a doormat when involved in an intimate relationship. I was giving a
> lot, expecting a lot in return, but getting nothing. A toxic mix with this
> brain of mine. So after talking with my sponsor and a couple of other friends
> that have been through similar circumstances, I put up boundaries of our
> relationship. I had a long conversation with him last week - what sacrifices
> was he willing to make for this relationship? How far is he willing to go to
> make it work? The way I was looking at it was, with the support of my family
> and the friends I've made in the program, I could get through a horrible
> breakup with the man I love. However, going through a relationship, being let
> down every weekend, and endless rollercoaster of high's and low's, would be
> virtually insupportable. I had to take action and then work through the
> consiquences. I prayed and tried to have no expectations (good or bad) even
> when he said he was coming down Friday night.
>
> So Friday came along, and I spent the whole day with my 3 year old nefew and
> brother-in-law, playing outside in the nice warm sun. It was a wonderful day
> and helped keep my wild mind occupied as to avoid those dreaded expectations.
> Friday night - guess who came down? Yeah, baby. And we had a wonderful night
> and talked through a lot of what has been on my mind, and a lot of what has
> been on his. It was wonderful. We both made a promise to each other to make
> this work - both give what we can to the relationship while working on getting
> our own lives together. I do believe we will both try.
>
> Of course, this is just one night, and I can't let my hopes get too high only
> to be let down ...
>
> The point of my little story is, I really do, for the first time, feel I have
> really *taken* the first 3 steps and I'm starting to peel away the onion -
> fearlessly and thorough. I feel as if I am making decisions through thought
> and prayer rather than with emotions/fear. No more instant gratification,
> it's
> prayer and meditation. Procrastination being another of my character defects,
> I have to keep a close eye on when I'm putting something off for too long,
> lying, telling myself I'm praying on it - lol :)
>
> Anyway, another wonderful experience, was Easter dinner at my uncles house.
> Wine and beer being poured freely and, you know what? Not one urge - didn't
> even want it. And I wasn't even feeling sorry for myself because I "couldn't"
> - it was not even a thought. Amazing. And this isn't a high feeling like
> I've
> had before, that pink cloud feeling, that I could come crashing off of any
> minute. This is a peace, a stream of even, warms feelings. I am becoming
> secure in my own skin, comfortable with the path I choose to walk down every
> day.
>
> Thanks everyone for listening,
> have a good day,
> Christine
Christine - what a wonderful post! While I have not yet had an intimate
relationship since getting sober almost three years ago (just not my time
yet) I have worked hard at improving the way I have relationships with
others across the board and I have learned that my weakest points are my
motivations and expectations. If I decide to do something for someone else
I have to really examine why, and if I have expectations for it. So much of
my drinking life was spent doing things for other people and saying it was
only because I wanted to when really there was an expectation and that of
course led to some pretty hefty resentments...I see a lot of growth and
honesty in your post that also lets me see some of my own progress, and for
that I thank you :) I find that the less energy I spend on expectations the
more I am able to truly see things and people as they are and accept them
for that - I spend less time justifying and more time truly experiencing
what comes with today. Learning about my boundaries and how to respect
myself is definitely a new trick since becoming sober, but what a difference
it makes in the days I have had since! Thank you for your post!
Alana

[Christine]

> If I decide to do something for someone else
>I have to really examine why, and if I have expectations for it. So much of
>my drinking life was spent doing things for other people and saying it was
>only because I wanted to when really there was an expectation and that of
>course led to some pretty hefty resentments...I see a lot of growth and
>honesty in your post that also lets me see some of my own progress, and for
>that I thank you :) I find that the less energy I spend on expectations the
>more I am able to truly see things and people as they are and accept them
>for that - I spend less time justifying and more time truly experiencing
>what comes with today. Learning about my boundaries and how to respect
>myself is definitely a new trick since becoming sober, but what a difference
>it makes in the days I have had since! Thank you for your post!
>Alana

Thanks Alana. It is hard for me. I have to fight my instincts on how I deal
with relationships. It is only through others experiences and my own work on
the steps am I able to do this - that along with a lot of praying for strength.

While working the program to the best of my ability, I can only judge my
progress with how I react to situations and relationships. I know I am doing
well (making progress) when my father and I are getting along, when I'm not
feeling ashamed or guilty, when my boss praises me for a job well done, when,
most importantly, I am not expecting certain outcomes and feel secure in the
decisions God has given me the strength to make.

Rosie asked me in another post if I would rather talk about my boyfriend or my
recovery. I have been putting a lot of thought into that question, and talked
to my sponsor about it. I believe my boyfriend, as well as my family,
co-workers, friends, *are* my recovery because they are part of my life and my
life *is* recovery.

Does that make sense to anyone?

[rosie]

: Rosie asked me in another post if I would rather talk about my
boyfriend or my
: recovery. I have been putting a lot of thought into that
question, and talked
: to my sponsor about it. I believe my boyfriend, as well as my
family,
: co-workers, friends, *are* my recovery because they are part of my
life and my
: life *is* recovery.
:
: Does that make sense to anyone?


i suspect that you believe it...............................

[Blue Moon]

On 26 Apr 2004 20:08:39 GMT, ctbean3@aol.com (Christine) wrote:

>Rosie asked me in another post if I would rather talk about my boyfriend or my
>recovery. I have been putting a lot of thought into that question, and talked
>to my sponsor about it. I believe my boyfriend, as well as my family,
>co-workers, friends, *are* my recovery because they are part of my life and my
>life *is* recovery.
>
>Does that make sense to anyone?

Yes, it makes sense. I just would not make that criteria for my own
recovery, nor recommend it to anyone else. Here's why...

Assuming that your boyfriend, family etc. *are* your recovery, how
would your recovery be if you lost your boyfriend, family, etc.? If
you lost them, by your own definition you'd lose recovery. Given
recovery based on those conditions, it's probably best to make damn
sure they're never all in the same vehicle or under the same roof at
the same time.

Sounds to me like your recovery is based on co-dependency, rather than
on a relationship with the two equations you will always live with
whether you want to or not - self and higher power. Other people will
always let you down, somehow, sooner or later.

--
Blue Moon

[Robert McGregor]

"Christine" <ctbean3@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040426160839.10326.00000317@mb-m03.aol.com...
> > If I decide to do something for someone else
> >I have to really examine why, and if I have expectations for it.
So much of
> >my drinking life was spent doing things for other people and saying
it was
> >only because I wanted to when really there was an expectation and
that of
> >course led to some pretty hefty resentments...I see a lot of growth
and
> >honesty in your post that also lets me see some of my own progress,
and for
> >that I thank you :) I find that the less energy I spend on
expectations the
> >more I am able to truly see things and people as they are and
accept them
> >for that - I spend less time justifying and more time truly
experiencing
> >what comes with today. Learning about my boundaries and how to
respect
> >myself is definitely a new trick since becoming sober, but what a
difference
> >it makes in the days I have had since! Thank you for your post!
> >Alana
>
> Thanks Alana. It is hard for me. I have to fight my instincts on
how I deal
> with relationships. It is only through others experiences and my
own work on
> the steps am I able to do this - that along with a lot of praying
for strength.
>
> While working the program to the best of my ability, I can only
judge my
> progress with how I react to situations and relationships. I know I
am doing
> well (making progress) when my father and I are getting along, when
I'm not
> feeling ashamed or guilty, when my boss praises me for a job well
done, when,
> most importantly, I am not expecting certain outcomes and feel
secure in the
> decisions God has given me the strength to make.
>
> Rosie asked me in another post if I would rather talk about my
boyfriend or my
> recovery. I have been putting a lot of thought into that question,
and talked
> to my sponsor about it. I believe my boyfriend, as well as my
family,
> co-workers, friends, *are* my recovery because they are part of my
life and my
> life *is* recovery.
>
> Does that make sense to anyone?

What intrigues me is your criteria for progress. Each time I felt
daunted by apparent lack of progress, two things happened.

One thing was I gradually accepted my progress in recovery was
primarily directly proportional to my effort in taking the steps.

The other thing was, recognising the steps as a relatively long term
process, I could find an extremely simple improvement in the way I
treated the world around me that I could *guarantee* to maintain.

The very first bonus progress I ever undertook was as simple as no
longer throwing empty cigarette packets out of the car window, and I
did manage to keep that commitment right up until I stopped smoking,
so it was indeed *real* progress.

Does that make sense to you?

Bob.

[JB]

"Christine" <ctbean3@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040426160839.10326.00000317@mb-m03.aol.com...
<snip>
> Rosie asked me in another post if I would rather talk about my
boyfriend or my
> recovery. I have been putting a lot of thought into that question,
and talked
> to my sponsor about it. I believe my boyfriend, as well as my
family,
> co-workers, friends, *are* my recovery because they are part of my
life and my
> life *is* recovery.
>
> Does that make sense to anyone?

Dear Christine,

Maybe, you'll have comments on my comments :^)

Are you saying that if you did not have the people you have around you
at this time, you would either not be able to recover or not be able
to do what you think you need to do in order to recover ? I believe
that my recovery is not dependant on anyone or anything other than me
working my chosen recovery program every day.. Those with whom I
have contact present me with opportunities to assess my progress in
recovery.

All the best

JB

[JB]

"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:c6lmne$9v1$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Christine" <ctbean3@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040426160839.10326.00000317@mb-m03.aol.com...
> <snip>
> > Rosie asked me in another post if I would rather talk about my
> boyfriend or my
> > recovery.
<snip>
> Dear Christine,
>
> Maybe, you'll have comments on my comments :^)
>
> Are you saying that if you did not have the people you have around
you
> at this time, you would either not be able to recover or not be able
> to do what you think you need to do in order to recover ? I believe
> that my recovery is not dependant on anyone or anything other than
me
> working my chosen recovery program every day.. Those with whom I
> have contact present me with opportunities to assess my progress in
> recovery.
>
> All the best
>
> JB
>
Sorry, I've realised that I should have also said that those with
whom I have contact also present me with opportunities to see whether
or not I am wokring my program. Right now I am not. My husband needs
help and I' ve told him to wait because I want to finish this
postscript. As writing to you could wait but leaving my husband
without help could cause him distress I am not being considerate. I
am being selfish and self-centered. I consider these to be two of my
major character defects.
..
Must go now.

JB

[rockhound]

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:59:37 +0100, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

>Sorry, I've realised that I should have also said that those with
>whom I have contact also present me with opportunities to see whether
>or not I am wokring my program. Right now I am not. My husband needs
>help and I' ve told him to wait because I want to finish this
>postscript. As writing to you could wait but leaving my husband
>without help could cause him distress I am not being considerate. I
>am being selfish and self-centered. I consider these to be two of my
>major character defects.

JB -

Does the program that you are working require effortful sainthood?
It sounds rather pridefully self-concerned, almost Catholic in nature.

rock

[rockhound]

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:31:46 +0100, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

>
>"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
>news:2fbf43415046555dec64011544fdf54d@news.teranew s.com...
>> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:59:37 +0100, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
>wrote:
>>
>> >Sorry, I've realised that I should have also said that those with
>> >whom I have contact also present me with opportunities to see
>whether
>> >or not I am wokring my program. Right now I am not. My husband
>needs
>> >help and I' ve told him to wait because I want to finish this
>> >postscript. As writing to you could wait but leaving my husband
>> >without help could cause him distress I am not being considerate.
>I
>> >am being selfish and self-centered. I consider these to be two of
>my
>> >major character defects.
>>
>> JB -
>>
>> Does the program that you are working require effortful sainthood?
>
>Not to my knowledge: The book in which it can be found includes the
>following:
>
>" We are not saints............... The prnciples we have set down are
>guides to progress".
>
>JB
>
Then why do you state you are 'not working it', just because you
happen to be inconsiderate?

[JB]

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:2fbf43415046555dec64011544fdf54d@news.teranew s.com...
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:59:37 +0100, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
wrote:
>
> >Sorry, I've realised that I should have also said that those with
> >whom I have contact also present me with opportunities to see
whether
> >or not I am wokring my program. Right now I am not. My husband
needs
> >help and I' ve told him to wait because I want to finish this
> >postscript. As writing to you could wait but leaving my husband
> >without help could cause him distress I am not being considerate.
I
> >am being selfish and self-centered. I consider these to be two of
my
> >major character defects.
>
> JB -
>
> Does the program that you are working require effortful sainthood?

Not to my knowledge: The book in which it can be found includes the
following:

" We are not saints............... The prnciples we have set down are
guides to progress".

JB

[rockhound]

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:50:53 +0100, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

>We're dealing here with a specific incident. My view that I acted
>inconsiderately relates only to that incident. I expressed nothing
>more than my personal opinion :^)
>
>JB
>

Ok, if you say so. Sounds like you have your hands full there...if I
were in your shoes, peace and happiness would take nothing less than
watching him get smaller in the rear-view mirror. You certainly have
more character than that! If I tried to be as considerate as you in
that situation, I might get whiplash!

rock

[Robert McGregor]

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:2fbf43415046555dec64011544fdf54d@news.teranew s.com...
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:59:37 +0100, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
wrote:
>
> >Sorry, I've realised that I should have also said that those with
> >whom I have contact also present me with opportunities to see
whether
> >or not I am wokring my program. Right now I am not. My husband
needs
> >help and I' ve told him to wait because I want to finish this
> >postscript. As writing to you could wait but leaving my husband
> >without help could cause him distress I am not being considerate.
I
> >am being selfish and self-centered. I consider these to be two of
my
> >major character defects.
>
> JB -
>
> Does the program that you are working require effortful sainthood?
> It sounds rather pridefully self-concerned, almost Catholic in
nature.
>
> rock
>

Either AA is merely a tad tardy in removing major character defects,
(collectively categorised as shortcomings) http://tinyurl.com/3h2d2
or Bill Wilson nurtured collective *false* pride, by substituting the
AA group for God (Whatever God is?) "You can, if you wish, make A.A.,
itself your 'higher power.' 12 & 12p27

Prostate humbled Bob.

[JB]

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:bc665aaeab4462f9d19ba23e6c44140c@news.teranew s.com...
> >> Does the program that you are working require effortful
sainthood?

JB wrote:
> >
> >Not to my knowledge: The book in which it can be found includes
the
> >following:
> >
> >" We are not saints............... The prnciples we have set down
are
> >guides to progress".
> >
> >JB

Rockhound wrote:

> Then why do you state you are 'not working it', just because you
> happen to be inconsiderate?

We're dealing here with a specific incident. My view that I acted
inconsiderately relates only to that incident. I expressed nothing
more than my personal opinion :^)

JB

[JB]

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:b9be2da105fdf6644cb94bbbce9f960c@news.teranew s.com...
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:50:53 +0100, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
wrote:
>
> >We're dealing here with a specific incident. My view that I acted
> >inconsiderately relates only to that incident. I expressed nothing
> >more than my personal opinion :^)
> >
> >JB
> >
>
> Ok, if you say so. Sounds like you have your hands full there...if
I
> were in your shoes, peace and happiness would take nothing less than
> watching him get smaller in the rear-view mirror. You certainly
have
> more character than that! If I tried to be as considerate as you in
> that situation, I might get whiplash!
>
> rock


Rock,

Have you assumed that my husband is an able-bodied gentleman ? If so,
you've made the wrong assumption.

JB

[rockhound]

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:24:06 +0100, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

>"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
>news:b9be2da105fdf6644cb94bbbce9f960c@news.teranew s.com...
>> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:50:53 +0100, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
>wrote:
>>
>> >We're dealing here with a specific incident. My view that I acted
>> >inconsiderately relates only to that incident. I expressed nothing
>> >more than my personal opinion :^)
>> >
>> >JB
>> >
>>
>> Ok, if you say so. Sounds like you have your hands full there...if
>I
>> were in your shoes, peace and happiness would take nothing less than
>> watching him get smaller in the rear-view mirror. You certainly
>have
>> more character than that! If I tried to be as considerate as you in
>> that situation, I might get whiplash!
>>
>> rock
>
>
>Rock,
>
>Have you assumed that my husband is an able-bodied gentleman ? If so,
>you've made the wrong assumption.
>
>JB
>

Of course not. Although I am not up to speed on your full situation,
I did read that little tidbit on the boards. Why do you stay, if I
may ask?

rock

[JB]

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:b9be2da105fdf6644cb94bbbce9f960c@news.teranew s.com...
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:50:53 +0100, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
wrote:
>
> >We're dealing here with a specific incident. My view that I acted
> >inconsiderately relates only to that incident. I expressed nothing
> >more than my personal opinion :^)
> >
> >JB
> >
>
> Ok, if you say so. Sounds like you have your hands full there...if
I
> were in your shoes, peace and happiness would take nothing less than
> watching him get smaller in the rear-view mirror.

LOL. Are you always quick at passing judgement on those you've never
met :^)

> You certainly have
> more character than that!

Given that you have no idea what it was my husband needed help with,
what made you decide to pass judgement on my "character" ?
..
> If I tried to be as considerate as you in
> that situation, I might get whiplash!
>
"That situation" ? LOL What have you assumed my "situation" to be
?

JB

[JB]

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:227aa6d24f00f1ce91a1fafe08291084@news.teranew s.com...
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:24:06 +0100, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
wrote:

JB wrote:

> >Have you assumed that my husband is an able-bodied gentleman ? If
so,
> >you've made the wrong assumption.
> >
> >JB
> >
>
> Of course not. Although I am not up to speed on your full
situation,
> I did read that little tidbit on the boards. Why do you stay, if I
> may ask?
>
> rock

You've asked :^) My reply:

It's none of your business :^)

JB

[rockhound]

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:12:27 +0100, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:
>"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
>news:b9be2da105fdf6644cb94bbbce9f960c@news.teranew s.com...
>> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:50:53 +0100, "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
>wrote:
>>
>> >We're dealing here with a specific incident. My view that I acted
>> >inconsiderately relates only to that incident. I expressed nothing
>> >more than my personal opinion :^)
>> >
>> >JB
>> >
>>
>> Ok, if you say so. Sounds like you have your hands full there...if I
>> were in your shoes, peace and happiness would take nothing less than
>> watching him get smaller in the rear-view mirror.

>LOL. Are you always quick at passing judgement on those you've never
>met :^)


>> You certainly have
>> more character than that!
>
>Given that you have no idea what it was my husband needed help with,
>what made you decide to pass judgement on my "character" ?

Which judgement? That you must have more character than I do? Well
certainly that was an assumption on my part. I thought I had some
idea that your husband required a great deal of physical assistance.
I myself could not abide without an able-bodied man. I would leave.
Perhaps you have reasons I can't begin to imagine for taking care of
your partner. Heck, you might even love him, for all I know.

If the judgement in question was that you were inconsiderate, that was
your opinion, certainly not mine.

>.
>> If I tried to be as considerate as you in
>> that situation, I might get whiplash!
>>
>"That situation" ? LOL What have you assumed my "situation" to be
>?
>
>JB

Clearly, it is your situation. In another post you state it is none
of my business - I assume you would prefer I attempt to refrain from
reading when you post publicly about it here?

I've decided - yours is an approval I shudder to ever have to meet.
He's lucky he's off the hook.

rock

[JB]

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:55aeef38679d0892793cd1e9f4646d90@news.teranew s.com...
> >> If I tried to be as considerate as you in
> >> that situation, I might get whiplash!


JB wrote:

> >"That situation" ? LOL What have you assumed my "situation" to
be
> >?
> >
> >JB

Rockhound wrote:
>
> Clearly, it is your situation. In another post you state it is
none
> of my business - I assume you would prefer I attempt to refrain from
> reading when you post publicly about it here?

You assume wrong. As you know, my comment was in reply to your
question: "Why do you stay, if I
may ask?"

Now, I do not believe you have at this time any genuine interest in
the subject recovery from alcoholism. Therefore, I see no point in
continuing this conversation.

JB

[Christine]

>>Does that make sense to anyone?
>
>Yes, it makes sense. I just would not make that criteria for my own
>recovery, nor recommend it to anyone else. Here's why...
>
>Assuming that your boyfriend, family etc. *are* your recovery, how
>would your recovery be if you lost your boyfriend, family, etc.? If
>you lost them, by your own definition you'd lose recovery. Given
>recovery based on those conditions, it's probably best to make damn
>sure they're never all in the same vehicle or under the same roof at
>the same time.
>
>Sounds to me like your recovery is based on co-dependency, rather than
>on a relationship with the two equations you will always live with
>whether you want to or not - self and higher power. Other people will
>always let you down, somehow, sooner or later.

Hmmm ... I did not clearly state what I mean. I reread what I wrote and I do
sound codependent in my recovery. However, to clarify, what I intended to say
was that my reactions to those in my life, to situations in my life, is how I
"rate" progress in my recovery. This story about my relationship with my
boyfriend I shared because I was proud of the fact that I identified a
character defect, identified an ongoing situation in my life where this
character defect was apparent. I prayed, asked for help from others and God,
and stood up and made a decision without expectations. *That* was huge for me.
It was, as I said in my original post, the first time I felt as if I am really
making progress (as in, changing the person who walked into the halls).

I wrote my boyfriend, family, friends, coworkers, but maybe I should have just
said anyone and everyone I encounter in any given day. Am I patent and kind to
the check-out lady? Am I accepting unacceptable behavior from a group of
teenagers at work? Do I become irrationally upset about the FCC/Bush
Administration fining Howard Stern?

Am I on an even keel? Am I reacting to situations responsibly with respect to
myself and others? This is how I judge if my head is screwing loose again.

By the way, I am 92 days sober. Hot damn. This is when I had my little
experiment last time. A little something for me to think about, eh?

~Christine

[Blue Moon]

On 27 Apr 2004 22:26:19 GMT, ctbean3@aol.com (Christine) wrote:

>By the way, I am 92 days sober. Hot damn. This is when I had my little
>experiment last time. A little something for me to think about, eh?

Good job :) Just keep doing what you need to do, and you'll have 92
more.

--
Blue Moon

[Ron]

On 27 Apr 2004 22:26:19 GMT, Christine <ctbean3@aol.com> wrote:

> I wrote my boyfriend, family, friends, coworkers, but maybe I should
> have just said anyone and everyone I encounter in any given day. Am I
> patent and kind to the check-out lady? Am I accepting unacceptable
> behavior from a group of teenagers at work?

For too many years, I used to commute via bus and subway in Boston. One
thought I often had while standing on the platform watching people board
and look for a seat or place to stand was that you can tell a lot about
a person by how they behave when they're not around people they know.

> Do I become irrationally upset about the FCC/Bush Administration
> fining Howard Stern?

No, you don't. You're not upset enough. ;)

> By the way, I am 92 days sober. Hot damn. This is when I had my little
> experiment last time. A little something for me to think about, eh?

As Howard would say: bubba loo ya to ya!

--
AB5DB9CC

[Christine]

>> Do I become irrationally upset about the FCC/Bush Administration
>> fining Howard Stern?
>
>No, you don't. You're not upset enough. ;)
>
HA! That's the reverse of it, and trust me, I beat myself up for not doing
enough - not doing my part. Ahh ... but I write the letters and "spread the
word" as much as I can. It's very frustrating, however, to be here in Mass.
and knowing my word doesn't have much of an impact here as far as the
presidential race is concerned.. Kerry will win hands down in this state.
First time EVER I am wishing I lived in a more conservative state where my
strong beliefs and opinions could influence someone's vote (to make an impact).
I am considering campaigning for Kerry anyway, just as a gesture of how much I
hate that right wing lunatic George W.

Anyway, here in good 'ol Boston there is a talk show host named Jay Sevrin. He
is a self-proclaimed Libertarian, despises most Democrats, votes Republican
most of the time, and is a very very smart man. I try to listen to him every
day, although I usually do not agree with his views. He has said so far he is
not voting for Bush this upcoming election because he feels very hurt and
betrayed by our president. That I have to agree with. He is also outraged
about what is happening to Howard and what it means for the future of
radio/television - free speech in general (aren't we all?!?!) As conservative
as he may be, I wish he was syndicated to Republicans across the country could
hear him instead of stupid idiots like Bill O'Reilly.

Anywho ...Last week a Muslim group here in Boston tried to get Jay kicked off
the air for saying he wanted to "kill all Muslims." The Boston Globe printed
the article on Sunday. Obviously, on Monday, Jay was outraged and adimatly
denied ever saying that and called for the Globe and the accuser to bring him
the proof. Tuesday morning there was a tiny little retraction in page two of
the Globe. Bad, bad mistake. But it doesn't matter. The people who read that
article about Jay wanting to "kill all Muslims" doubtfully read the retraction.
The damage is done and now, more than ever, he is going to be a target.

And so what if he did say that? Land of the FREE and home of the ... brave?
Hearing or seeing something that offends or horrifies us compels us to...?
Shut them up? *That* horrifies me. Where this country is and headed horrifies
me.

DON'T VOTE FOR BUSH!!!!!!!! Goddamn don't vote for Bush.

Sigh.

[rosie]

"Christine" <ctbean3@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040428225340.00147.00000398@mb-m06.aol.com...

: ...................... I am considering campaigning for Kerry
anyway, just as a gesture of how much I
: hate that right wing lunatic George W.


ALWAYS a good idea!
stay involved and be "a part of" the changing of the guard in this
country!

--
rosie

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or
that
we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only
unpatriotic
and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
........................................T.Roosevel t
http://www.misleader.org