"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:c517dd$gv2$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "runandhide" <runandhide@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:BIGcc.16663$Bk31.3960@twister01.bloor.is.net. cable.rogers.com...
> > Hello there all,
> >
> > I'm a mother of an 18 year old "boy" who I'm convinced is an
> alcoholic.
> <snip>
> > I want to help my son but I fear I will have to put him out of the
> house
> > before the rest of us end up needing help as well.
> >
> > I guess I'm just looking for somewhere to vent and I figured that
> folks here
> > may understand.
> >
> > thanks for reading this,
> >
> > Run
>
>
> Maybe you'll find what follows to be of some help.
>
> JB
>
> Helping Family Members with Addiction
> Howard J. Shaffer, Ph.D.
>
> Since I began working with addictive behaviors several decades ago,
> the question people ask me most often concerns the drug and/or alcohol
> use of a loved one. Some of the worried relatives ask what they can do
> to stop another family member from drinking, gambling or using drugs.
> Often they want to stop a relative from doing some combination of
> these activities. Others want to share the hopelessness and despair
> they experience when a family member acts out of control. These
> questions reveal that the people most severely affected by drug abuse
> and addictive behavior may not be the people who behave excessively.
> The real victims of addiction are the people who live with someone
> else's loss of control. This column will focus on the people who
> surround someone struggling with addiction.
>
> If you live with an adult who is having difficulties with excessive
> behaviors, there three very important and straightforward things you
> can do to help yourself. Unfortunately, these things do not guarantee
> an immediate stop to the addictive behaviors, but nothing can do that.
> First, don't worry about whether the person you love is really an
> "alcoholic" or actually has "addiction." This concern will not help
> either of you. It will tend to intellectualize the problem and keep
> both of you from taking action. Instead, identify the behaviors that
> bother you. Recognize the things that the person does that could be
> harmful to you and take action to protect yourself. For example,
> remember that you don't have to ride in a car when the person driving
> is under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Second, try to make new
> friends and expand your circle of activities. Living with someone
> whose main goal in life is to find and use drugs and alcohol can be
> very lonely. Even when they're physically present, intoxicated people
> are not usually present emotionally. It is very helpful to talk with
> others about your situation.
>
> Finally, social support groups break the silence and isolation that
> accompany the addictive behavior of a loved one. There are self-help
> groups available for you to help yourself. You have little power to
> change the addictive behavior of the one you love unless you help
> yourself first. When you seek help, loved ones usually follow. Don't
> force them to participate in self-help groups or professional
> treatment. Take care of yourself. When your loved one asks about what
> happened at a meeting or treatment session or who said what to whom,
> invite them to come to the next meeting or session so they can see for
> themselves. Curiosity and self-interest usually seduces loved ones to
> participate in the change process more often than coercion does.
> Coercion will help some people and hurt others; we cannot distinguish
> those that coercion will help from people it will hurt. Therefore, as
> a method of engaging resistant people into treatment, I prefer
> seduction to coercion. Al-Anon, Alateen, and Gam-Anon are
> organizations for the relatives and friends of alcoholics, teenage
> drinkers and gamblers respectively. In most parts of the United
> States, these group meetings occur every night of the week. These
> organizations are ready to help and easy to access. Professional care
> also is available for help with the consequences of a loved one's
> addictive behavior. Many relatives and friends of problem drinkers,
> gamblers and drug abusers have been able to lead more happy and
> peaceful lives by adopting ideas they got at support group meetings.
> These principles can improve family life even when the problem drinker
> doesn't stop. If you believe that you can make a person struggling
> with addiction start or stop their excessive behavior, disappointment
> likely is in your future. This is an unreasonable expectation. You
> simply don't have that kind of power. When a person with addiction
> begins to feel out of control about their own behavior, they often
> blame the people who are most close to them for their problems.
> Technically, this is a form of projection. This usually leads to
> friends or relatives feeling responsible either to save or cure them.
> Sometimes family members and loved ones feel guilty because they think
> they caused the addiction.
>
> It is a very difficult and lifelong lesson to learn, but with few
> exceptions, people ultimately are responsible for their own behavior.
> This is particularly true about getting help. No one person can cause
> or cure another's addiction. Similarly, another family member's
> addiction is not the cause of your problems. It may often seem that
> they are causing your suffering-but it just isn't so. The key to
> helping the person you love is to help yourself. As you begin to find
> peace and order in your life, the person who is struggling against
> their impulses and suffering with addiction will learn to adapt to
> you. They will learn from your example. Drug abuse, compulsive
> gambling, and eating disorders are baffling predicaments. They cause
> immeasurable pain and suffering for those who engage in the behavior
> as well as their family members. Research reveals that a significant
> number of smokers, drinkers, heroin and cocaine abusers stop their
> addiction as they mature. Unfortunately, maturity in these cases often
> can mean that a person struggling with addictive behaviors must reach
> their thirties or forties before they begin to gain control. Relatives
> and friends can be most helpful in this process if they can remain
> supportive and detached-detached from the person's destructive
> behaviors and supportive of the person they love. Sadly, people do not
> always overcome their addictive behavior patterns. Sometimes people
> die prematurely from excessive behaviors. This is an unhappy, tragic
> and difficult fact to accept, especially when addiction has adversely
> influenced a close friend or relative.
>
The following is the main thrust of Al-anon and they have plenty of
experience to help you do this.
Dr. Howard Shaffer said, "It is essential to remember
that one person's addiction need not ruin the lives of the people who
love them. You determine the quality of your life-not anyone else."
Dont just read this do it!
Julie
>
> Dr. Howard Shaffer is an Associate Professor at Harvard Medical School
> and is the Director of the Division on Addictions at Harvard Medical
> School. Dr. Shaffer is licensed as a clinical psychologist in the
> Commonwealth of Massachusetts and is certified by the National
> Register of Health Care Providers in Psychology.
>
> http://www.mtregis.com
> Date Published: 12/8/2003
>
>

"Christine" <ctbean3@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040406213919.12341.00000790@mb-m16.aol.com...
> > The only thing for sure is that he has become the focus
> >> of each and every moment of my. In short, I'm a basket case. My
> >> husband and I have 3 other children. Our youngest is 8 and he has
> >> witnessed more distressing situations than most children of his age
> >> should ever have to.
> >>
> >> I want to help my son but I fear I will have to put him out of the
> >> house before the rest of us end up needing help as well.
> >>
> >> I guess I'm just looking for somewhere to vent and I figured that
> >> folks here may understand.
> >>
> >> thanks for reading this,
> >>
> >> Run
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >We have a saying around here. "Let the clown finish thier act." I know
it's
> >not a pleasant thought, but nobody gets sober unless they want to. I hope
> >your son has an early entry into sobriety.
>
> However, you are right to be thinking of yourself and the other members of
your
> family. You should really check out Alanon. You did not cause this in
your
> son, nor can you do anything about it. You can do something for yourself
and
> your family - set limits and boundaries with clear consequences (as in,
there
> will be no drunkenness in the house or you're out). It may seem harsh but
you
> have to look out for yourself, your home, your husband and other 3
children.
> It seems to me from what you said you have given him more than enough
> "chances".

You're correct there. My husband does not believe he has a drinking problem
and continues to do just that. I can't count the number of "one more
chances" he's been given. I guess he figures that if he doesn't have a
drink today that he must not have a problem. I know in my heart that no one
would choose to get drunk, go out and get in a fight, wind up in jail -
repeatedly - and not have a drinking problem. It would take me only one trip
to jail to realize this isn't something I would want to do over and over.

Contact a support group to help you with this struggle.
>
> A man told me the other night one of the hardest realizations to deal with
when
> first becoming sober was the resentments his siblings had towards him.
Why?

Close enough. His younger sister who is 16 hates him. She does not mince
words when she expresses her feelings either. I know/hope that she won't
always feel this way but for now she resents what she sees him doing to me
particularly. She has see me crying and seen her father stressed beyond
stress. I hope this can be mended in time.


> They felt he had taken their mother away from them because she worried and
> focused so much on him and his alcoholism she lacked focus on them.
>
> I am not saying you should turn your back completely on him. You can
support
> him without accepting his behavior. Jeff is right - he is going to have
to
> drink every drink until he wants help, if that day comes. That does not
mean
> you and your family have to drink those drinks with him.

Actually, I had a wonderful stir fry compliments of the wine I confiscated
from his room a couple of weeks ago. It really added the extra zing to the
gravy :-)

He was exceedingly furious. Too bad, so sad.


Thanks for your support Christine, I'm going to see if I can find an al-anon
meeting in my neighbourhood this weekend. Something tells me I'm going to
need it.

Run

Thanks for this neuro, guess I've got lots of reading to do this weekend.

Run
"neuro equipoise" <NeuroEquipoise@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:27407-40736BF2-14@storefull-3277.bay.webtv.net...
> On - Tue, Apr 6, 2004, 11:05pm (EDT+4) runandhide@rogers.com
> (runandhide) wrote:
>
> > He suffers with hereditary depression and uses
> > booze to deal with that as well. Usually it ends up
> > having the reverse effect.
>
> > I do not drink, nor do I suffer with depression so I
> > cannot relate to this problem.
>
> The author below, lost her addicted and depressed teenage son to
> suicide. If you're interested in reading her story, or books, here's an
> excerpt:
>
>
> "Good-bye Depression"
> From "Alcoholism--The Biochemical Connection" by Joan Larson
> http://www.trans4mind.com/nutrition/depression.html
>
> "If you have been unsuccessfully battling depression, you are not alone.
> At least 40 percent of all alcoholics in the United States are affected.
> I say 'at least' because our Health Recovery Center study found that
> almost two-thirds of our clients are depressed at entry. In fact, most
> alcoholics I have treated suffered from some degree of depression."
>
> "My search for an explanation for Rob's suicide led me to studies that
> confirmed the connections between brain biochemistry and depression and
> offered methods of repair that succeed far more reliably than any form
> of talk therapy. I learned that there is no single biochemical glitch
> that explains all depression. At my clinic, we treat seven different
> sources of depression affecting alcoholics. In this article, you will
> learn which of the seven may underlie your depression, (in some cases,
> two or more may be to blame)."
>
>
> Also:
>
> "Seven Weeks to Sobriety"
> http://www.alcoholism.cc/MainPage.html
>

"Julie" <Julie919@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:x2Kcc.12302$NL4.6115@newsread3.news.atl.earth link.net...
> The answer is simple, but it will be very painful for you.
> --Tell him that he can not drink or drug if he wishes to stay in your
home.
> --Change the lock on your doors and don't give him a key.
> --Go to Al-anon and listen to there advice.
> --Make sure he knows that you will support his discussion to seek recovery
> when he is ready.
> --Throw him out if he breaks the rules.
> I have been on both side of this problem and believe me you can NOT do
> anything but take care of yourself and your other kids.
> Many prayers for you and your loved ones,
> Julie


You are right on all points. Now all I have to do is muster up the courage
to do just that. I called AA the other night and a 23 year old "kid"
answered. I told her my problem and I was surprised at her candor when she
started telling me her story. One thing that really stuck in my mind was
that she said the best thing her parents ever did was to throw her out of
the house. She was speaking with the wisdom of someone much older than her.

Thank you for your prayers.

Run

"runandhide" <runandhide@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:Uejdc.633$PV5.189@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.r ogers.com...
>
> "Julie" <Julie919@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:x2Kcc.12302$NL4.6115@newsread3.news.atl.earth link.net...
> > The answer is simple, but it will be very painful for you.
> > --Tell him that he can not drink or drug if he wishes to stay in your
> home.
> > --Change the lock on your doors and don't give him a key.
> > --Go to Al-anon and listen to there advice.
> > --Make sure he knows that you will support his discussion to seek
recovery
> > when he is ready.
> > --Throw him out if he breaks the rules.
> > I have been on both side of this problem and believe me you can NOT do
> > anything but take care of yourself and your other kids.
> > Many prayers for you and your loved ones,
> > Julie
>
>
> You are right on all points. Now all I have to do is muster up the
courage
> to do just that. I called AA the other night and a 23 year old "kid"
> answered. I told her my problem and I was surprised at her candor when
she
> started telling me her story. One thing that really stuck in my mind was
> that she said the best thing her parents ever did was to throw her out of
> the house. She was speaking with the wisdom of someone much older than
her.
>
> Thank you for your prayers.
>
> Run
>
>
I didnt wait for my parents to through me out I left home when I was 16
years old so I could do as I wanted.
Some how or another I survived all the crap I did, had my own kids, got
sober, and then had to throw my two girls out of the house to protect my own
sanity and my marriage. Both daughters did as the pleased and in a few
years they were both calling the house to ask how to deal with problems in
their lives. Did you notice this last part? When they ask I tell them
what I think, but not until they ask.
Julie

>
>

On - Wed, Apr 7, 2004, 4:18am (EDT+4) can@the.spam (Ron) wrote:

> I have a sister who's in and out of jail for selling
> drugs, petty theft, etc. She lost her kids. She's
> been in and out of marriages that we don't even
> know about until after the fact. Sometimes
> homeless. If fixing people's problems only took
> wise words, then I sure as hell wish someone
> would lay them out there. My family has resigned
> itself to the "she needs to find her bottom" theory
> for some time now. We just keep watching her
> sink. Ironic that I found my bottom on one of the
> upper floors before she found hers.

Here's an alternative view:

http://users.erols.com/ksciacca/

(the acronym "MICAA" refers to 'mentally ill chemical abusing/addicted")

Excerpt:
"traditional addiction treatment emphasizes the concept of "hitting
bottom" as a necessary prerequisite to sobriety (that is, patients must
experience severe losses or deterioration in order to perceive that they
need help for addiction). For MICAA patients, however, "hitting bottom"
can mean decompensation into severe psychosis and regression in all
areas of functioning. This is not recommended. Sciacca (1987b) has
advocated that MICAA clients be maintained at a stable level, and that
progress in substance abuse treatment should proceed from that level."

http://users.erols.com/ksciacca/integ.htm

"neuro equipoise" <NeuroEquipoise@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:26803-407AA1FF-216@storefull-3272.bay.webtv.net...

>
> http://users.erols.com/ksciacca/
>
> (the acronym "MICAA" refers to 'mentally ill chemical
abusing/addicted")
>
> Excerpt:
> "traditional addiction treatment emphasizes the concept of "hitting
> bottom" as a necessary prerequisite to sobriety (that is, patients
must
> experience severe losses or deterioration in order to perceive that
they
> need help for addiction).

Traditional?

Given AA introduced the concept of "raising the bottom" a long time
ago, (I think it was in the 'forties, certainly by the fifties,) I
doubt very much Sciacca could name even one contemporary treatment
facility that holds, let alone emphasises, any such "Traditional"
concept.

An hollow premise as blatant as that says a lot for her "science,"
doesn't it.

Bob